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In a manner that is neutral toward religion. it says we have no doubt that the colorado civil rights commission will meet standard as they listen respectfully to all sides of the matter that come before and it issue dpigss uphold and p support under colorado law. so the court's verdict did not rule the cake maker's refuse on the to make a cake for you constitutional but criticized the way the state handled his religious objections. is that one of the nuggets that you're encouraged about? >> absolutely. we just got back from a rally at the state capitol. the governor spoke on our behalf and he ...

The way the state handled his religious objections. is that one of the nuggets that you're encouraged about? >> absolutely. we just got back from a rally at the state capitol. e governor spoke on our behalf and he you giant hug and said that he supported us. that felt good. >> jack phillips did offer to bake other goods for you but refused the wedding cake. what would you say to people who asked, why not just go to a cake maker who didn't object to same sex marriage? it's an obvious question but i have to ask. >> the point of this case wasn't whether or not there was someone else out there who...

Zb zblb. >> do you believe people are implicitly biassed against people? >> i think implicit bias is a problem for all people, not just police. unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. >> now, it's being used on the campaign trail by republicans or donald trump supporters to say that she's saying that all police officers are racist or people are racist, but -- and many people criticized her for this but isn't it better if you admit you have biases and confront them directly instead of denying that it exists? >> i mean look i think a lot of people...

Presidential debate. >> doubt people are implicitly biased against people? >> i think implicit bias is a problem for all people, not just police. unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. >> now, it's being used on the campaign trail by republicans or donald trump supporters to say that she's saying that all police officers are racist or people are racist, but -- and many people criticized her for this but isn't it better if you admit you have biases and confront them directly instead of denying that it exists? >> i mean look i think a lot of peop...

I've given back gifts, everything i think we did was compliant with the law, chuck, to the degree that i undermine trust in people, i have apologized. i think i would do some things differently. i think we need to change some of the ethics rules in virginia to provide more clarity and certainty for donors and office holders alike. >> joining me live, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. you had some people confused that, first, this was legal under virginia law, which it apparently s but now that the feds can come in and investigate and perhaps even eventually charge the governor and ...