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On each other pretty quickly. >> i would also say the behavior that we're seeing right now, this defiance is really putting that test to congress. and they're essentially daring congress not to hold them accountable. >> one of the things that i find interesting in all of this is how everyone kind of tries to say oh, it's not me. it's rudy. you're going to have to ask rudy about that. even ari asks jay sekulow about this. let me play you what he said about the whole ukraine stuff. watch. >> that was out of my judiciary committee. it wasn't anything i was engaged in. >> when did you learn that r...

Are trying to pull them together, if is hard for people to follow? democrats want it behind closed doors for protection. you get leaks coming out and trying to piece it together in a fair way, is not easiest thing to actually that is the biggest case, the problem that democrats have. they have to convince the american public this is worth while going down this road. they have to convince the american public that this is what should happen with the time on capitol hill. and to do that behind closed doors with leaks, starts to get a little shaky at times, especially we've seen reports have been ...

February right after he became attorney general, and the justice department has certainly made every effort to stay -- to have him stay away from rudy giuliani, to keep giuliani away from the justice department, away from bill barr, with good reason. i think the question is, why hasn't the president taken that advice? >> to that point, we'll do more on this case, the specifics of this case in just a minute, but sh sean, this breaks on the day of the bloomberg article. he helped persuade the justice department to drop a case against a turkish man familiar to rudy giuliani. help me understand th...

Before. and there's no apparatus in the white house to cope with this. the big thing that should tell us all what's going on and how successful or not he is being is the deafening silence from the republican senators. none of them maybe lindsey graham are saying anything. they're all staying in their hole. senators don't normally not talk. they talk all the time. and they're not talking. what we're seeing is an unraveling here. and the democrats are methodically building a case. and there's all the ukraine stuff. today with the diplomats. next week the fired ambassador will be there. and we're...

Successful or not he is being is the deafening silence from the republican senators. none of them but maybe lindsey graham that are saying anything. they're all staying in their hole. and senators don't normally not talk. they talk all the time. and they're not talking. and i think that what we're seeing is an unraveling here. and the democrats are methodically building a case. and there's all the ukraine stuff. today with the diplomats. next week the fired ambassador will be there. and we're just getting started on this. >> john, listen, the first rule. you talk about a hole. the first rule i...