Defend ukraine? there's been talk of sanctions, but also the foreign minister of russia has scoffed that sanctions would have any effect. >> well, i don't think that the united states and certainly not the president is interested in seeing troops there to actually defend on the ground, or in the air, ukrainian space. we have to look at this in many respects. and one of them is that it's a test of the ukraine to see whether or not it's actually going to back down from the path, divert from the path of joining nato. it's also a test of this administration, of president biden, of secretary of def...