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They are the leader, has that responsibility. i think leaders also need to be an example. so they've got to be willing to listen. they've got to be willing to learn. they've got to be willing to adapt their positions. and whether it gets tough they have got to be willing to stand up and lead. i think that we have had a lot of good leaders show up in the last couple of years, particularly covid-19. they are spread around the country, but it's not uniform. it's not enough, and think we, as the american people, have yet decided we are going to celebrate and support all the right leaders. >> gener...

"his nation ultimately posed the greatest threat to itself by failing to respond to a well-understood threat, but lattimore and american officials had at their disposal the dials to control their own response to risk. both failed to calibrate them." speaking to the challenges with our political system, do you see that same mistake playing out right now, not seeing the threat and not addressing it? >> i do. what i'd say is the greatest risk to us is us, and it's not really as much our failure to be able to predict threats, because we've always been lousy at that and probably always will be beca...

Our next guest has a new book out on managing risk. retired four star u.s. army general stanley mcchrystal was commander of the joint special operations command and later all u.s. forces in afghanistan. he is now the author of "risk: a user's guide" along with anna. general mcchrystal, thank you so much for joining us. i want to start with what's going on between china and taiwan, and if you would, just set the table for us. why should americans care about the tensions between taiwan and china right now? >> well, if you look from a chinese lens, taiwan is part of china, so there's an argument ...

Each one as whether it's danger, responds, and learns from that. organization, societies, have a risk immune system with the ability to defect, assess, respond and learn. and if you look at america's response to covid-19, we knew that a pandemic was likely. we had great public health experience. we even got a scientific miracle with early vaccines. yet, we dropped the ball. and we didn't drop the ball because covid-19 is ten feet tall. we dropped the ball because we didn't focus. we didn't make our immune system work right. and we can look in the mirror and figure that one out. >> general mcch...

Afghanistan about 2003, and in 2001 american forces had gone there initially when it was the early hunt for osama bin laden. established a base and pulled out. when we went back in 2003, the locals were not interested in us establishing a presence. they said you're just going to leave again. once you pull out, you leave us vulnerable. i think it's a natural response for any potential ally to be a little less confident that if it gets tough, we'll stick with them. >> general, let's talk about risk. a user's guide. why did you write it? and what will we get out of it? >> i don't think we're very...