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The community. clearly we're not doing our jobs. either we've got to put them away or find a way to rehabilitate them and not just let them run wild. >> larry: vernell, are you optimistic or pessimistic? >> over 800 previously incarcerated people i recruited, a young lady living in her car with her infant child in east oakland. three years after we enrolled her in college, she was just accepted as she graduated with her aa degree this june. now accepted, and starting in august at cal berkeley. so i know that we can transform them, if we invest the time and the effort to give these people an op...

I, of course, was there. i met a kid didn't do hardly anything. when i left, he said, dog, i'll take it from here. instead of learning how to shoot the lock off, you learn how to pick it. it's a training field for felons. >> larry: ver nell -- vernell, you agree with that, they come out smarter criminals? >> i think that it depends what you do with them while inside. that's why i say you'll find research has clearly identified that when you are exposing them to a cognitive behavioral model that you're going to find that you change the way they think about themselves, their personal and communi...