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Gets syria under control, the economy running again, i don't think they're worried about whether or not the visitor log is kept -- is put on a website. >> i thought the drain the swamp thing was one of the most effective and powerful things. i remember corey lewandowski was like, you will hear more of that. it does resonate with people. >> look, the obama administration -- they got criticized for this. they did say they would not release names of particularly sensitive meetings. that would be the way of getting around what you are talking about where you don't -- a lobbyist meeting is not sens...

Wouldn't be elected. they do have some leg to stand on with that. but as you are right, phil rucker, most americans do want to see those taxes. but given the fact that donald trump won't release it and given the fact that now the white house is not releasing things like visitor logs, ken, does this white house have a transparency problem? >> oh, absolutely. i mean the visitor log is a good case in point. but we go back to the campaign. by see they didn't release their bundlers. this is something that's become a tradition in sort of modern, big money campaign finance. they didn't do that. they ...

>> before we get to crystal here. back in 2012 president trump had that to say about his predecessor. why is barack obama spending millions to try and hide his records. he's the least transparent president ever and he ran on transparency. chris, editor at large, i see your smirk. what's your take? is the white house transparent thuf? do americans care? >> two different things. first of all, no, they don't care. most people honestly don't even know there is a visitor log at the white house that the obama administration of who came in and who left. and would people like dth doona trump to releas...

Building with reasonable withholding. those privacy concerns, if they existed today, they existed six months ago when president obama was president. there is no reason for them not to continue this unless they want to continue looking as if they are trying to hide something. >> here is a president who is so transparent in ways you would not expect. he will do interviews and tell you what he is thinking and eating at the time he is thinking it. yet, whether it is conflict of interest or the visitor log or taxes, he's unnaturally s lly secretive about them. it is all about the juxtaposition. >> ...

Thank you for being here. emily, is transparency overrated? >> absolutely not. and i think the president needs to consider who his base is. we are inherently distrustful of the government. that is important. want to be the president that gets away with not releasing his tax return, that a significant. the people voted him into office without seeing his tax returns, if you want to get away without looking at 20-20, he cannot give them space to build against him as a massively un-transparent president. they have to excel to be transparent. like the drafting of a health care law, like the lobbyis...