>> because the idea of stealing an election you didn't win is with them from the beginning. >> exactly right. and this is what i think is key, though. they're already thinking about stealing and then comes all the ridiculous empirical claims about fraud. and my question to you is, like, what role is that playing? >> that's really an interesting question. it's -- it's justifying the idea the state legislature has no choice, you know, what can we do, our hands are tied, no one knows what the vote really is because it's so tainted by vote rigging and fraud we don't have any idea who the people vo...