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And started worrying about defending and protecting american democracy in the 2020 election. >> i think when you look at the fact yesterday, and as i walked around the hill after the hearings and started seeing even democrats that had said they were not for impeachment start saying, wait a minute, this may change everything, i think the thunderbolt was what you just pointed out, joe. when all of a sudden mcconnell backs this $250 billion package and we're looking at the fact now that you have the russian interference as the election strategy for 2016 under serious investigation and implication...

Presidents go in areas like this? getting help from other governments. >> yeah. it's the digital version of disintermediation. when we disintermediated everything, retail and now politics and absolutely. it's a leveling effect. and a little bit like remember oppenheimer and others wornd th warned when nuclear weapons entered you'd never be able to stop the proliferation because who would not want that much power in a fallen world? so the capacity of foreign governments, and also not even governments, right, just non-state actors. who knows. this is not necessarily state-run technology. we're i...

Or between people in the campaign. >> yes you have. >> i have no idea -- i have not. i said the president of the united states, there is not a single bit of evidence the president of the united states committed the only crime you could commit here, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> by the way, rudy also is running around saying how bad the mueller report was going to be, that it was going to be devastating before it came out. >> yeah. >> unfortunately there is more. there was the time rudy told "the new york times" this about his planned trip to ukraine. quote, we're not meddling...

People saying we are absolutely certain that this proof that there's a smoking gun showing that donald trump concluded with the russians and it's all going to blow up and he's going to jail. i think as john as said and benjamin has said we have to know what those facts are. because if it's the raising of an eyebrow or something that you can't nail down. >> or a suggestion. >> or a suggestion. because michael cohen says he never gives a direct order. >> he suggests. >> he suggests. and then people move on that. >> you're supposed to understand it. >> right. >> and that's terrible, by the way. d...

Tolerate these days. looking at the timeline of this, it's very odd that this phone call with the prime minister of ukraine happened the day after mueller testified. so you've got -- you almost have to wonder if president trump thought got away with it once, no consequences first go round, let's gear up for 2020. let's see what we can do. it is just simply astounding to watch drunk grandpa last night who needs to be just pulled off to hospice if not -- >> wow. >> what the -- >> by the way, this end of the table is rocking over here. >> one second. give me one second. i speak for the gentleman ...