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Here's cnn's jeanne moos. >> reporter: it's the tale of a rat, allegedly caught in the act of planting mice in rival pizza parlors. >> he's out of his mind. he lost his mind. >> police in upper darby, pennsylvania, arrested this pizza shop owner. >> it's insane. >> for trying to sneak in mice to infest two competing pizzerias. >> that's the act of a desperate man. >> his recently open pizza place wasn't doing so hot. he walked into rival verona pizz as two cops were having a bite and wept into a restroom carrying the bag. when we left without the bag, they checked the bathroom. there was footp...

Don't understand. they had a good issue in basically saying, look, the obama administration trying to tell the state of arizona what to do on immigration when all the state of arizona was trying to do is do what the federal government wasn't doing. they had a winning issue with a lot of swing voters are that didn't delve into a lot of politics and all of a sudden sudden it's almost they snatched a victorious issue -- snatched defeat from a victorious issue. >> they almost can't help themselves, as you pointed out and i think as mike pointed out, too. some of the leaders of this 14th amendment ...

Where this 14th amendment debate really clarifies the issue in a lot of ways. if you're talking about building a border fence, you're talking about punishing wrong doers, people that break the law. if you're talking about changing the 14th amendment, you're talking about punishing infants in hospitals. there's a fundamental lack of generosity, and i think kind of seriousness in this kind of proposal. it -- you know, it -- it shows the republicans in a very bad light, and there has to be another side to this argument. >> and roger, here's what i don't understand. they had a good issue in basica...

Another side to this argument. >> and roger, here's what i don't understand. they had a good issue in basically saying, look, the obama administration trying to tell the state of arizona what to do on immigration when all the state of arizona was trying to do is do what the federal government wasn't doing. they had an issue with swing voters that didn't delve into identity politics and all of a sudden it's almost they snatched a victorious issue -- snatched defeat from a victorious issue. >> they almost can't help themselves, as you pointed out and i think as mike pointed out, too. some of the...

This new tough law, which isn't tough at all. it was mirroring the federal law. because the u.s. government wasn't doing enough about border security. first of all, this law has nothing to do with border security at all. so that's nonsense. the second part of this is that the united states government does more today than they did last year, the year before, or any year in the past. the fact of the matter is, border security is a very, very serious problem and i don't think that we're ever going to have the border secured to anybody's satisfaction. i think the first debate needs to be done, wha...