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Give us a little broader context of what perkins had to say. >> well, look, this was for an interview that covered a lot of ground. and you can hear it all in the message podcast. what i was asking him was, how do you as an evangelical leader reconcile not just the stormy daniels incident, but all the things that would seem to call into question the moral connection that evangelicals might make to president trump with the massive support that among evangelicals overall and certainly evangelical leaders still exists. and what he said was they are focused on the policy. and when we teased that a...

10, 15 years ago. but nonetheless, they are a very cohesive block for the most part. and that's why their support matters. they have been there in strong numbers for the president. they were in 2016. perkins said to me that part of the reason why they were is they felt like the choice between clinton and trump was really a question of the future of the republic. those were his words. and, so, that -- >> do they see him as a man of faith? >> well, one of the questions that i said was do you consider president trump a moral leader? and perkins said to me, i consider him a leader. and parse that ...

Himself to the victims of naziism. it's beyond satire, really. >> it really is. richard wolffe, one of the things about it, though, is what perkins was saying, most of that thinking, possibly not the nazi parallel, but most of that thinking is shared by most of the republicans who will be sitting in that room listening to president obama's state of the union address. >> well, certainly the element that this crowd, the job creators, that they should be getting even more favorable treatment, that part of it is very widespread in terms of republican thinking. and the notion as well implicit in al...

Little faith. i believe this is it is. they have such little faith they can beat obama that they don't want to use him up right now. they see him as a 2016 kind of candidate. i really believe that they're trying to groom him for down the road. they know this is going to be a disaster for any republican that runs, no matter what the republicans would like to say, things are not so bad for obama he can't come up. he's afraid to run. they want to keep him out of the race. >> you heard tony perkins say he's okay with the field. it's no big deal that christie didn't get in. do you believe that. >> ...

He's the perfect candidate. i think it's still -- the question if des moines my mind is do the republicans have such little faith. i believe this is it is. they have such little faith they can beat obama that they don't want to use him up right now. they see him as a 2016 kind of candidate. i really believe that they're trying to groom him for down the road. they know this is going to be a disaster for any republican that runs, no matter what the republicans would like to say, things are not so bad for obama he can't come up. he's afraid to run. they want to keep him out of the race. >> you he...