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Market that ran up to record highs and now it's being tested. so a lot of traders say the potential government shutdown might be more of an excuse for the selloff. >> neil: interesting. another thing, i imagine more important to these guys is the debt ceiling quagmire. if we don't raise the debt ceiling and there's a risk of a default, that takes center.@%p stage. >> you're right. sandra pointed to that when we talked about 2011 over the debt ceiling fight there. the market sold off 17%. the s&p dropped. but for the year it gained 12%. i'm talking about about the interim between july and augus...

Their staffs are working. they're working and they're trying to come to a compromise. because it's so is he severe, it sounds like they are compromising. >> they've worked for many, many months and all hours of the night and basically secret meetings while other stuff is going on to see if they could hammer something out and what they're saying is basically not everyone is going to like what we're doing. we need to increase taxes but radically reduce the size of government in the united states. the g.o.p. and the democrats will be upset with our findings. a lot of people upset, especially the ...

Are saying look, there are ways around this and we're not going to be bullied into increasing the debt ceiling just because you say there is going to be a crisis. gregg: do republicans have enough leverage to ex-ability from the president and democrats over this debt ceiling debate systemic changes? >> i think when you add in the senate democrats who are the moderates in the senate, guys like joe manchin of west virgina and who are very concerned about the debt and making noises they might not increase the ceiling then you have a window of opportunity for a pretty grand compromise to take plac...

Sell off, treasuries are selling like hot cakes out there, despite what s&p says. as you said, the housing market down, 3.5%, a recent report showing that 74 of the nation's biggest cities, it's cheaper to rent -- it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent, completely contrary to what you think. obviously, there is the employment numbers, 408,000 people just this week applying for unemployment benefits. not good news. this plays out in the jobs markets because companies won't hire, they've had the cash but now are warning about the back half of next year, about what their earnings are going to loo...

Government's debt. when we drop below aaa that means we are riskier. that's why the u.s. needs to offer more in the way of interest rates on the bond. >> effect people's wallets at home watching right now. >> personally i don't think so immediate qulavment moody's as juliet points out and fitch are keeping us at aaa. this stock market and bond market is telling us interesting story lines that is the crisis and the chaos in the eurozone, investors are fleeing from there. holly holy cow. the u.s. treasury dropped below 2.3% on friday. >> people buying treasuries this week. people rushing to what...