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-- as we've seen that happen, we haven't seen subpoenas for that kind of thing. how do you think about it? >> well, the last time this came up was the russia investigation triggered by nunes. there were two people question for information. one democrat, one republican. they both said. yes they did their due to the. but now mark meadows -- he's refusing to do his duty. we have certain remedies. potentially with mccarthy, with perry, with jordan. with house members where we don't have a steve bannon or mark meadows. that's because a house can control its own members. but then -- we have been dec...

Information bears directly on president trump's state of mind during the january 6th attack as the violence was under way. so he is somebody who is a firsthand witness here who spoke with the president, who argued with the president. he's a leader, a republican leader in the congress. and they believe that his testimony is hugely important to them to say, okay, what was the president's state of mind? now, obviously, there's a privilege issue here because he was talking to the president. the president is going to say those are privileged conversations. and so we have to see whether mccarthy, as...

Trump's first impeachment. he joins me today. why is it so important to talk to congressman mccarthy? >> well mccarthy, by his own a mission. was talking to the president on january six. as jaime said, trying to get the president to intervene and stop the violence. and he did nothing for such a long time. mccarthy has said, sometimes, what he said in that conversation is -- he has really said with the presidents response was. of course, it's vital to know with the presidents actions were, was they were not. what his state of mind. was no other people can speak to that other than mccarthy or tr...

Mechanism. there is no criminal penalty for failing to abide by it. we believe that presidents and senior staff will act in good faith. when you don't, you see the problem it generates. >> donald trump introduced the act, to me, way late in the idea that the expectation that people lacked in good faith. this should be the final piece of evidence that when you pass a law like that you better have an enforcement mechanism, because donald trump has proven you don't have one, you can literally blow right through the law. final question here is, bennie thompson has been very careful whenever he's a...

The moderates, they're the majority makers, the ones who are responsible, republicans hope, for delivering the majority to republicans next year. but the marjorie taylor greens of the conference say they have a lot of power, they know they have a lot of power when it comes to whether mccarthy will be speaker or not and they're starting to flex the muscles. that's the dynamic we're starting to see play out in the republican conference. >> if only that flexing did not require speaking ill of fellow lawmakers, fellow americans. fellow members of your own party. mel melanie, chris, thank you very ...