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Where they publicly commit to these investigations. how does that effort and what we re learning about it play into sort of sondland s disclosures in the amended testimony today? well, the charitable view of what sondland was trying to accomplish was basically to conduct american foreign policy around trump and giuliani. he basically saw them as impediments to what needed to be done between these two countries and basically if they could satisfy giuliani and get him to layoff, then they could go back to establishing normal relations and that would be the best thing for the country. the problem is, is that the president and his lawyer were standing in the way. but it was all about pacifying giuliani. these people thought that giuliani had poisoned the president s brain and given him all of these different ideas about what had happened in ukraine and basically to get that to stop and to get the president to layoff, they had to ....
President of the united states. just to add one more thing on this, i find it fascinating, i was talking to tim stewart, one of the great reporters of our age pointed out something to me which was that when trump was talking to zelensky, he says talk to rudy or talk to barr and that is a very trump thing to do. he s got these two egoed lawyers who are competing for his affection, he s throwing them together like a pair of which they are, they are structurally considered rivals and trump loves to throw them together in a sock and see who comes out intact. that kind of thing which is all fun and games when you re setting off your when you start to get in a situation like this and two lawyers like that with the degree and power and material information about the ....
Try and get the ukrainians to put out the statement. there is something sympathetic in that depiction of trying to work around a president whose mind has been poisoned against the ukrainians, but i believe that s what they believed, and trying to do the right thing, trying to get the military aid to the ukrainians by any means. when you read through, they re trying to be forthcoming with congress and on the page you read bizarre. is that does that paint a more textured picture of the scandal. yes, but you re a much, much nicer person than me, nicolle. but i m not. you are, you are. because i understand your point about it being somewhat sympathetic, it s also somewhat pathetic because it isn t ....
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Binary. you can leave, you can quit, you can say i can t operate in this environment. i m not saying that s what he should have done. but it s not like he has to try and find a way to make it work. if he s being asked to do things that he thinks are unethical or illegal or just yucky, which might be the technical word here, he can walk away from it and he didn t. he tried to apiece the president and that s on him. it s also part on the president, of course, but that s on sondland. it s on sondland and i m not as i m more mean than you, chuck. we could have this fight every day. ashley, i want to ask you not what the white house is saying, because i think we can all guess, someone is a liar, blah, blah, blah but if there s any effort at any level to understand the fact pattern or if the entire strategy rests on sort of indicting the process and impugning the integrity and character of the witnesses? ....