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To be believed, the romney bounce -- ate point lead in september. it's a large swing, this is one of those goods polls amount of people do watch. on the question of who's a strong leader, romney's turned a 13 point obama lead into a tie. romney now holds an eight-point lead. zrak strategist and principal at the romney group. sarah i want to start with you, you've been in odd way in this situation before, you had a good lead, not out of the margin, but in a similar place. what was that conversation like with the president? >> you know, i think what you have to do is take a step back

Think are going to be helpful to the democratic campaign, and while the president didn't give a good performance, some of these things about mitt romney are baked back in. >> let's talk about to me, we won't know whether this is a new race until we see what the midwestern states are at. ohio, iowa, they have not written them off and they're really trying to get them back in play. if you're seeing the first ohio polls and you see the president still sitting at 49, does it matter to you if romney's at 47 or 44? >> it's a very different game when you're down 7 or 8 in the polls. at the end of the...

Talking with these people, the day after the debate, talking with the supporters in denver. they still show up, but they were like, come on. there was a little debate. the president fumbling would have been a good thing in the long run. >> if the focus is the president, president bush, he had an overconfidence if you will going on with john kerry. >> fumbling is only good in hindsight that you know for a fact that it clears your mind set. the obama campaign has been so relentless inn and effective in defining trom hi as what they want. i'm wonderingive that's why they have been willing to talk...

I mean, i guess the bigger point i make, isn't he going to have to get substantive to make people really realize that maybe he can run the country and turn the tide instead of zinging his way to this? >> absolutely. he will not zing his way to a win. there's no doubt about it it. he's shown he's not terribly great at delivering them. but what's more important than the zingers is the way you can take a punch. everyone knows you can throw a punch, but can you take it? and that's what's going to be a challenge to president obama and governor romney. will romney be able to get underneath president...

>> absolutely. he will not zing his way to a win. there's no doubt about it it. he's shown he's not terribly great at delivering them. but what's more important than the zingers is the way you can take a punch. everyone knows you can throw a punch, but can you take it? and that's what's going to be a challenge to president obama and governor romney. will romney be able to get underneath president obama's skin? will president obama really put governor romney in a place where he can't come out of? can he box him in? i don't think it's going to be who delivers the zingers but who takes the punche...