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Cut off. who should have these? why not stop subsidizing the rich? why are we subsidizing warren buffett's benefits as much as his secretary's? >> you have to define rich. define it for me. >> stop corporate welfare and circumscribe their medicare and retirement benefits. >> what is the cut-off number? >> in medicare, for means testing, a joint filer of $160,000. let's reduce the subsidies that go to higher income individuals from government. you can get more savings from the budget. each program has different numbers in law today. i'm not going to give you a rich person and what is not a rich...

With their kids, that would be the effect of the ryan budget. but on medicare he's played a more skillful version of defense. because he, he recently endorsed this ron widen/ryan plan which gives people a choice, even future seniors to stay in medicare conventional medicare, if they want. so he's going to be able to say no, i'm not gutting medicare. if you want to stay in in medicare, you can. the problem is that people assume that somebody else is going to get cut, not them. them getting cut is an abstraction. >> all of this is running against, i'm those as scary as this other guy and the dem...

Make money by doing more and more tests and doing unnecessary tests at the end of life and so forth the dartmouth atlas tracks that. we know the bad offenders. they're in the big cities. you go to the midwest, ohio state, uk, mayo clinic and then you get places that are delivering higher quality of care for much less cost. and those are the future. i think medicare is going to be changing, starting to do moribund ld payment and getting away from fee for service so the future is also accountable care or acos as part of something quote-unquote obama care. there are a lot of things going on in me...

Medicaid and medicare and that's having a real hit on medical centers and as we speak right now the 2012 budgets for most medical centers are being formed. and 10% or more cuts are being made. for the first time, and this isn't well appreciated by anyone and maybe a first on your show, for the first time we're seeing layoffs in medical centers. even at the doctor level, which is to be -- thought to be a rock solid job. the health care sector can't continue to grow unless the over all economy in jobs improves. >> and the -- how direct is the correlation between the fact that our health care sys...

Channel and a health care sector financial analyst. he also is a trained surgeon. so the man knows of what he speaks. doctor, walk us through your -- we went through this and i know we talked about it in the preinterview. you don't dispute the opportunity to create work in health but you argue if we do not get a bigger brain about what it means to have a prosperous nation, we're not going to -- we'll need a lot more than health care jobs. >> well, yes. since the financial collapse last five years or so health care has been one of the few sectors that is growing jobs but it's a bit like the tai...