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>> that was what i wanted to ask you about. you have done the work tabulating where they are, are we seeing the fees go up quicker in states where we have seen deeper cuts in judicial systems? >> there's not a clear relationship in the data and trend, but there is a clear trend upward in terms of the activity. they're becoming much more active as they feel the pressure whether it's real or imagined. there's more activity from the court systems trying to sell the funds. >> there was concern about the overall legality of this. is this constitutional? >> it shouldn't be constitutional to put some...

Needs to be funded. and they're looking for people to pay. they can't force the legislature, but they have every client in front of them. >> that was what i wanted to ask you about. you have done the work tabulating where these fees are. are we seeing them go up quicker in the states where we have seen deeper cuts in judicial systems? >> there's not a clear relationship in the data and trend, but there is a clear trend upward in terms of the activity. legislatures and court systems are becoming much more active as they feel the pressure whether it's real or imagined. so it's not a one-to-one. ...

Dents. but states need to insure they they do not penalize the poor and enriching the private debt collectors at their expense. i have to ask you what is going to sound like a dumb question. why are we doing this? what purpose in the legal system does it serve to load people up on debt and then throw them back in jail when they can't pay it? it doesn't seem to be keeping people from reoffending? it's not punishing folks just for the crime they did, not rehabilitating them? >> it's a bad idea. and you laid out, but the idea behind it is that courts are cash strapped and legislators are not fund...

You have done the work tabulating where they are, are we seeing the fees go up quicker in states where we have seen deeper cuts in judicial systems? >> there's not a clear relationship in the data and trend, but there is a clear trend upward in terms of the activity. they're becoming much more active as they feel the pressure whether it's real or imagined. there's more activity from the court systems trying to sell the funds. >> there was concern about the overall legality of this. is this constitutional? >> it shouldn't be constitutional to put somebody in a cage for not paying a fee they can...