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>> i am disappointed and quite frankly i'm angered by the fact. he knows me. he knows my son. he knows there's nothing to this. >> joining me now to discuss all of this, michael d'antonio, and olivia nuzzi. i'm so glad that both of you are here. thank you. michael, let me start with you because the obvious question is if senator lindsey graham was so interested in conflicts of interest, wouldn't he be pursuing that of the president and his family even though he's his golf buddy? >> well, just as you might have answered the president would actually be pursuing issues of corruption in ukraine, w...

Evidence of a months long effort that started all the way from the spring of 2019 when the president of ukraine was newly elected until as recently as early september. so this is what we have to look at in these public hearings. >> behind closed doors, what is the rationale behind mick mulvaney not wanting to testify? he has said that the president did nothing wrong, he agreed it was a perfect phone call. if he were in a position to defend and help the president's case, because there are so many witnesses that aren't, wouldn't he want to show up ala corey lewandowski? >> i think that is right....

Trump would be like, that he actually thinks he has the right and the power, and this is a good thing for him, to clear out anyone who would challenge. >> i think the other thing it reveals is he knows it was wrong. i think when you see him today saying it was a perfect call, if he was trying to fire the inspector general from the intelligence community, he knows he did something criminal. >> look, who knows what donald trump knows or whether or not he has a sense of right and wrong. i think this whole discussion of his state of mind suggests that perhaps the president of the united states can...

This whole issue as it relates to ukraine. we have a joe biden problem. i'm listening to joe biden on tape, bragging about a quid pro quo. you fire the prosecutor that "the new york times" told him was investigating his son, you get a billion bucks. you don't fire the prosecutor and six hours, you don't get the billion dollars. q that, to me, if the president asks a question about it, wouldn't he be faithfully executing the laws of the land? that looks like an illegal act and i outlined the laws in my open monologue. >> i think the john solomon reporting has changed everything for me. now you ...

Is in an interesting place because he's cornered republicans essentially defending a narrative that is not the case. >> i mean, rick, what do you think of the president saying he had to look at a card and see what the guy's name was? i mean, first of all, wouldn't he have known who he was calling, first off? but i mean, what do you say to that? >> it's just remarkable that the president could demonstrate his complete ignorance of foreign policy and why ukraine is so important to us and important that it would emerge as a democracy, not another buffer state for the former soviet union, the russ...