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People in ways that i would never do. i thought i was doing something very different and for a while, the cartoon sat in the public domain and people thought it was a very funny cartoon, very interesting cartoon. it was talking about — it said another state organ, another organ grinder�*s monkey, because zuma was busy converting the state organs into mouthpieces organs into his mouthpieces appointed this little puppet. but in the end, it was a black man as a monkey. ok, so, when i said i misread the mood, i thought that by having zuma with the big target and done in fully human form, and t...

Billy Downer is the prosecutor in Zuma's 1999 arms deal scandal.

Concerned, that's ok? i don't do it as a gratuitous insult. what i do is if there is some reason that i feel that they are preventing freedom of speech, or if i feel that they are being homophobic, or they are controlling, trying to control women's reproductive rights or any of those things, or being politically reactionary and i'm afraid it happens in all of these religions. so, in a sense, you wanted to make a stand by drawing the prophet mohammed. i wonder whether it was worth it because of course the police then said they uncovered a plot to kill you. it never reached a courtroom, but they...

The same way. but i felt i came out of that particular cartoon 0k. there's one other cartoon, specific one i want to talk about. i guess you may know what it is. it's 2016 and a cartoon where you portrayed zuma as the organ grinder in a visual representation of the classic thing about the monkey and the organ grinder, and the monkey on this occasion was actually the national prosecuting authority chief, a guy called shaun abrahams, who is a south african man of colour. you portrayed him as a monkey. 0k. how could you do that, given all the associations that everybody across the world knows abo...

"you would've seen the cartoons becoming more and more critical of the anc and of government," and he said, "oh, but that is yourjob." and for me, thatjust personified that amazing ability of his to take criticism and to see the importance of criticism, of cartooning, of good journalism in the country. and that puts him head and shoulders above most politicians, most statesmen. let's talk now about your relationship with more recent south african leaders. in particular, i want to focus onjacob zuma. cos it's one thing to draw a leader with a slipping halo. your treatment of zuma was on a diffe...