Hello and welcome to the program and several venue, a months of in direct negotiations between bitter enemies. The us and iran of culminated in a complex agreement that includes the Prisoner Exchange. 5 americans detained, intact, run, have already been moved to house arrest. And in time, a number of the radians jailed in the us will be freed. Perhaps most significant is the release of billions of dollars and frozen they range and assets. Us sanctions remain in place and mistrust is still an issue for both parties, but the deal is being described as a significant political achievement. And some analyst suggested could lay the groundwork for revisiting the 2015 nuclear cord. So well disagreement lead to another one. And with the 2024 us president ial election around the corner, will it begin to change americas relationship with its long time full . Well explore these questions with our guests in a moment. First though, this report by katya lopez, hold of you. A deal between long time adversaries. The us center band have taken the 1st steps and a Prisoner Exchange steel, a rare, but significant agreement. Turnaround will release 5 imprisoned american citizens, while washington will free several jail to radians and unfreeze about 6000000000. 00 in a rainy and asset. Rons own funds would be used and transferred to restricted accounts such that the money is can only use pre amount of training purposes, which as you know, is permitted under our section. So the deal was to reach despite height and tensions between to run and washington, particularly in the gulf region. The u. S. Has deployed thousands of troops to monitor shipping lanes and deter what it describes as harassment from toronto. Other disputes include around support for russia in the war and ukraine, sanctions and proxy conflicts in the m. And the symbolism is, is clear, which is that the ron was able to get its money back its own money. It was a, its been able to trust important countries in the region, especially potter and online. And its, its doing a bit of a gas using its leverage between the United States and other major powers, like russia and china. Now theres speculation that the Prisoner Exchange deal could revive negotiations on the 2015 nuclear deal for now, the white house says its not a priority. Were not in talks with iran on the return to the jcp away the nuclear deal. And thats, thats not on the agenda right now. Under that landmark deal to run agree to limit as nuclear developing program in exchange for the lifting of economic sanctions. But in 28 teams, former President Donald Trump woods drew the us from the agreement and reinstated sanctions relations hub and strain since and mistrust remains. Well, hes gone off telling you about it. The us has never negotiated with around based on trust and the signing of the around nuclear deal is not a product of trust. The run nuclear deal will only be revived when the us is ready to return to the deal responsibly and to show around that it will abide by the agreement seriously. As you, as President Joe Biden has expressed interest in renewing the deal. But that could pose a fresh set of challenges for both sides, particularly ahead of next years us elections. Katia lucas with again for insights story. Ok, lets get to our depth into run is flawed. Is that the head of the american studies at the university of denver, ron . You specialize in us . Iran relations in washington, dc is in the guard mark positive and a rating and american journalist host of the around podcast and in birmingham, in the u. K. We are joined by scott lucas, the professor of us and International Politics at the University College dublin and the editor of e, a world view, and online news sites, so warm, welcome to all of you. What i want to start with you, what was the 1st thing you thought when you heard of this deal, when you heard that it had come together, a good deal was supposed to happen the few months ago. And it was about time. I think the last time this was supposed to happen, United States decided by the administration decided not to go to it in 4 different reasons. We cannot of eyes why it did that happened last time, but im happy that its happened. We have a number of final is 5 in 8 on 5 in the United States. So its not quite a top feed. Theyre going to get their loved ones back in the ends are going to get some of the money that belong to them back. Uh, and the country is like south korea and at all to especially a rockstead savannah facing difficulties paying. Youre going back for the things that i got from you on are going to be able to clear those accounts. I think besides these ideas and those are many cans, i think that we have those 2 countries that are also happy to see this, these go to the girl. Why does this deal have now that well, the negotiations had been in the making for quite some time. Even um, the past couple of years, this was one of the priorities for the Biden Administration to at least get the prisoner as the american present our home. But we know when the policy started between town and washington with this administration at the beginning, there was a few months of overlap with the Previous Administration and tyler on then they had the election season in iran. New administration came who was more reluctant to do outreach with the United States. There have been instances when we hear from either side that the deal was close, including last year, around the same time august, when families were feeling are getting signals that a deal is imminent. And then it didnt happen, there seems to be a blame game going on by both sides. East blaming the other for preventing this from happening each suggesting that this was a priority for them. They wanted it to happen. Um but, but we are where we are as complicated it is a complicated deal when we look at the mechanism and the logistics of how many countries in parties and so many moving parts are involved to this day. The american prisoners are not free. They are in a hotel room, each separate hotel rooms in ty ron, um and so its in the making, but it did happen. It was a priority for both sides. And again, those are guess also sad families and loved ones and the prisoners themselves who had been going through this very difficult ordeal for many years. Some of them are finally going to be the united. Youre right. That it is complicated. The mechanism of video, well get to that in just a 2nd, but 1st i want to bring in scope with this question. You know, scott, when we see any deal between 2 conflicting parties, you, you cant help but wonder, well, whats in it for each side . And on a surface level, this ones pretty simple, right . Both countries get detained, getting nationals back that were detained, and the other country. And for a run, its even clear or what they get from it. They get billions of dollars that they badly need is there. Thats the surface level reading of it. Is there Something Else . Is there something perhaps were missing from that reading . You know, i think i see me reading, but we need a bit of context of i think its important to know that the reason why this deal did not happen a few months ago, despite being negotiated for a couple years was and we need to be honest and forthright is because i, ron took another american hostage, one of those 5 who was released yesterday recently seized. Now whether that was a particular branch of the iranian government, like revolutionary guards going, ill script. And so using someone what the wrong was trying to get, were leverage, were not sure. But it does highlight the to as it were entry point factors here for the 5 minute ministration. They want to get some they dont want the talks about across your program to just stagnate and fade away because otherwise you will have the risk of confrontation, hey, you know, its not over time, not only over a wrong, but over the region. So to get the prisoner release, it was sort of the escalation stuff that says, perhaps you can open the door to now not get an immediate settlement on the new for issue. But at least we get to re up to the top. From the iranian side is simply the economic prices. I mean, lets just be blown about it. Uh, it wants current say it must have been value since last september. Now its been stabilized for next step by the central bank. But inflation is still high. Officially, its 40 percent unofficially, its much higher, unofficial items. You have Serious Problems with production and infrastructure that are going on in the country. And of course, you have the overlay of the nationwide approach since last september solar rami cannot continue to hold up completely and just say a great site and great site. And at some point they needed to try to strike a deal, especially because the rons play a few months ago was what role normalized was, sell your radio with mobilized with the arrow world. We dont have to necessarily look to the americans if that works. But saudi arabia has talked back, there are further costs with these rileys, in other words, the kaleidoscope of middle eastern politics. Iran could not simply turn its back on some form of negotiations with the americans for that. Is this the result of what some people call hostage diplomacy on the part of iran, which is the notion that iran, the country around the government will imprison american nationals. And sometimes you see it with british nationals or other nationalities as well. And then use them as bargaining chips to obtain something. Is that what were looking at . You know that a few facts that so i think we can be certain about the 1st fact is that this year is the 7. Yes. And the rest of the, of the 1953. Cool. We know that the c i a in order to organize that cool or to say to that cool. And we know that theyre going to eat on the end steps and watching for the c. I a that helps the c i a to be able to go through that with that. So thats a fact. We know that many times how this flies in other countries. I dont think there is any country in the world that is not a hosting, a number of american, a spice of some of them are probably watching your program right now. And we know that the United States has high side policies towards the uh uh, i dont know if the people who are in prison or in the hotel rooms right now, i dont know the size or not. But i know that the c, i a has been focusing on the line and russia in china for many years. And they do have assets on a slides in these countries. But, but the whole spectrum and youre not quite answering my question flooding scott, i see you shaking your head will get to you in a 2nd. So the question is, and you know what critics of the rating government say, right . They say iran deliberately captures and jails people that they can then use as bargaining chips. Thats what hostage diplomacy is. It refers to, do youre that a run . Does this or disagree . I agree that the you on was to make sure that we dont have. I know, i know that it can cool, like we had 70 years ago, and we know that we have 5 either on the, as at the sitting and how many we can james, generally the victims of sci fishing expeditions accused of why losing sanctions that of illegal and International Law a. So if you call the people who are in hotel rooms, they knew on hostages, what can be called those youre on the is sitting in america and jane hostages. You know, the free, the fight to one side is the terrorist of the other side. So we can play with this terminology is we can demonize the army and government to the send me the outlets of very good that, that. But thats not going to dissolved anything. Scott, i think i suspect you might have a few things to say about that. I love, i find that our list and as i have a list here, i think we have to be respectful. In terms of what is happening and not play the versions regarding these people who are held political pressures. The 1st of all, there is a history of c, i a intervention in various countries around the world, including the wrong data. Something is in a rush right of the crew that was backed by the c i, britain, is that my sex is occurring this week. But you dont use that many years ago to try to justify taking innocent people and throwing them at the detentions for a year. Your raw has never presented any evidence. I got to see of my knowledge there while executive who was seized in november 2015 and who now they finally be released. They never produced any evidence against his father box or u. S. Staff who was in the seventys when he was in prison for years. They never presented any evidence publicly, actually not charging the Business Manager right now. Now finally be released. They have not presented evidence against father for nationals who are still being held in the wrong presence. So let us be honest here. Yes, Political Prisoners were taken and no, it is not the same as the iranians there for the president of the United States who may be in this deal. We can criticize the fact that these are audience were jailed and present, convicted or sanctions violations by questioning whether the sanctions were justified. But those people receive due process, an American Court in a transparent way. And the people who are in the wrong and presence who are held as cons, whether it be for the release of money, the lifting of sanctions or some type of uh, advantage. And then finally, gotcha. Sions. They were taken as innocent people who had no connection with us until it serves the guard. When you see it rings the re in government releasing american nationals that they had charged with either of spying espionage. I mean, its all pretty similar when, when you look at the charges. What does that tell you . Does that suggest that American Economic sanctions worked because they forced air runs hand or what does it tell you . I dont think the us policy, especially economic sanctions, broad economic sanctions, as something that has worked purse the mean depends on how you define work. Cheryl edge has put a lot of pressure on ordinary iranians on the lives of ordinary iranians, but hasnt really brought policy change, brought big policy change domestically, regionally hasnt changed around as us, and the region hasnt changed their on outlook towards the was the United States. Europe hasnt changed around position, these are the roches attack on your trains. Not really. I mean, this is, this is an important deal, but we have to remember, this is a small deal. This is just a, i see it as a limited action, a prisoner swap, an exchange of a few prisoners on one side and the other. And then on blocking off frozen assets, the us is not, in fact, changing any policy when it comes to actually cannot extension, the funds will be transferred to it by tax and will only be used for non this junction payments. So if you need a variation within that expense which is already allowed, which is already allowed on their us law, so us is not changing policy, iran is not changing policy. Yes. And humanitarian gesture has happened. It can also be seen on use as a goodwill gesture for both sides. Im hoping this would be a preload to more understandings and more agreement. And moving away from a brewing conflict, which we see between the 2 side more the escalation when it comes to our nuclear program, us clustering towards the country. But this is just a 1st step and the going back to a question. I dont think the policy of maximum pressures that started by the Previous Administration and then the continuation of these quibbling, economic sanctions has achieved any major policy goals except for bringing more missouri to oregon area. Right. Yeah. Well, thats really interesting and fun, this or we completely move on from this, from that topic. What the car was mentioning earlier on the, the, the mechanism of the deal. Can you please briefly run us through how this all works, especially the past that the money is going to have to take . Because i think a lot of our viewers will say, oh, well, easy, you know, you just, what prisoners, what prisoners release money pressed on a button is done. Then when you start reading the details, its actually a lot more complicated and even powerful countries, whether its the us, whether its mediators find it hard to get Something Like this done. It takes time, you know, it shouldnt be that complicated because the americans claim that food and medicine is exempt from sanctions. So if food and medicine is exempt from sanctions, you should be able to get that dollars. Thats a positive in south korea and bank send out all to banks and buy food on medicine with those dollars. That shouldnt be that complicated. Shouldnt be transferring these menus to. So its the answer. Explain the answer it to us. Please explain to financial circuit because right now were talking about money that is mostly in south korean banks and south korean currency. And then its got to end up through a series of permutations is gonna end up in, in your os or dollars in a tarry account. Just explain the process to us. You know youre on. So the only 2 sides, claudia, in dollars. So the money to initiate the lease was in dollars. That it isnt. They have to pass the, you know, change thats money into south 30. 00 on the funds and then take it to so its and then and then take it to cut of it is the fact that the United States is lying about sanctions, policies. The u. S. Claims that food and medicine is exempt, but the major problem is that the banking sanctions dont allow either on to use dollars to be able to buy food that made this sense. So the have to task. Thats money to different kind of this is different banks and all the complications that you have. And this costs, knowing this very fact that the United States is punishing, you know, i mean, people with food and medicine to come to the over 85000000 people is expecting us to trust the judicial system in the United States and demonize the judicial system. Any on the evidence of what these people did was presented to a judge in either on and the judge you need on is known this or no more as a judge in the United States. And if, if you dont accept that, then you are engaging and oriented, is that right . I think the scott knows what the audience of the service. I think a number of our viewers do as well as got right of right, of response of the product 1st to stop it with the diversions. Like orient, eliza. Im know that everybody in that somehow everybodys biased. If you have people that youre holding in your presence, who havent gotten a fair hearing. Now, let me actually answer the question regarding what is being done under this Agreement Regarding the money that iran is good, as it is being converted into your own. And its being put into our Financial Institutions to be overseen by the guitar and government a according to those who are close to the negotiations. And that means that youre watching not freely take out that money to use it on any item that it was to purchase that it wishes to invest in. It has to be for us to make our pointed out non sanction items, what food and medicine humanitarian. The reason for that is, is that the us fear that if it gave a run at open access to these assets before getting a reduction of the nuclear program, youre all can use the money, for example, for military activities that can use it for the revolutionary jars. They can use it for other purposes, rather than few matching man turn action. Now you may agree or disagree with that, but thats the documents thats been placed. Whats interesting here is, is that while the Central Bank Governor has acknowledged the testing arrangement, one of the mr. Is bodies, our colleagues, dr randi from the university of turn wrong . Because of the fact of english language spokesman for the leadership is actually denied that arrangement. Hes saying that youre on has unfettered access right to any of the funds under this agreement. So theres a contradictory message going on, even now between the iran folks, people as to what exactly the money is and how it would be handled. Even though its pretty clear on the western side what the arrangements are. Theres one really key thing i need to get into and we have just a few minutes left to go. Or you can help us with this. And anything that happens between iran and the us. You know, the headline question really for anyone watching the news as well. Where does this leave us in terms of reviving the nuclear deal . Does it get us closer to a new new cleared deal . This is get us further away. Where are we on that sliding scale . Your answer a while i single bite in administration is too close to election season. This for a new key, a deal coding quote at this point. But a new clear understanding may be something that can be in the horizon after this understanding or this agreement more of a nuclear de escalation. Its something that we know the administration has been pursuing as part of their negotiations with iran to try to convince ron to de escalate or halts or pause the expansion of the new car program in exchange for what the United States can offer in terms of the sanctions relief or the lesser and position of future sanctions or the, the less enforcement offering sanctions. I dont know if thats something thats a possibility. The past 23 years have proven very, very difficult, at least for this administration in this time and the administration into wrong to come to arrive at what i see again as a limited understanding to them 3 years to arrive to where they are and the nuclear file is even more complicated, but i think this is a 1st step, goodwill gesture that could open doors. And i know that by the administration for a fact that theyre not looking for a war per se, or a conflict with iran. Now whether you sleep, walk in to a conflict with a different story, whether the conflict is brewing without you really wanting. It is a different story and the life of diplomacy usually leads to more conflict and more attention. So, more understandings and more diplomatic engagements. Agreements would, would move them away from a through and conflict for our building on that point. Do you see this and, and, and the girl was making the point that this is a pretty narrow deal. Right. On a pretty narrow set of issues. Do you see this as potentially baby steps building towards a bigger agreement between the us in iran and it could that by the administration could 310 to the new kidney. And i agreement on the 1st day of the by then president s the same. Ready you return to the agreement on the client lender course, that is kind of quotes in the us, the political system. The new president cannot verify the executive orders of the previous president. And by then couldnt do that with the executive or that strong pad with regard to the new production. But she refused to do that to you if hes refusing to return to the agreement and a half years after that his presidency and the john kennedy, the National Security council. This folks man is saying yesterday that theyre not going to negotiate, that theyre leaving the negotiating table when it comes to that new to the that could even on the side shows that you have taught take a lot of really good because im the one that lucian 20 to 31. All these sanctions were supposed to go all the way and the trunk and leaving the agreement. The United States brought these sanctions back. And this whole program that we have to the we shouldnt have because of these sanctions and thats supposed to be there. The United States is punishing us out of countries like south korea and all that for the engaging economics. You leave it to you on line. Anything you end is lucian 20 to 3100 nights in the states, is a permanent member of the security council. So not only why they think that you have it as a solution to publish and go to countries and start trying to find the solutions. And for the, someone in the United Kingdom to sit and defend us, Foreign Policy in this matter is an indication that the human rights issue is not a concern. If someone was really interested in human rights issues, that that person would be interested in human rights of 85, maybe any time. All right, well, were gonna have to wrap it up here. Uh, thats all the time we have it today, but id like to think all i guess the joining us today slot is. 2 and they got more positively and scott lucas. Thank you all for being with us and thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website. Thats alpha 0. Com for further discussion. Good. Our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. You can also join the conversation on twitter or handle at a inside story from me several then. Yeah. And the whole team here, and uh huh. Bye for now. The across the us millions of americans rely on conservative talk radio shows for the use of the detainment. These are all real issues for real people. The listening post tunes in an us is talk radio, evaluating america, there is no room and thats not how democracy works. Is really just acknowledging differences that, that are already there. If anything, conservative talk radio created the republican party, oct one number 2 hearts pressure on the jersey to the colleges. When there was a time window. Ok, then go with this to not do enough to sustain life. In the northern kind of how we desert all year round. 2 but thats changing. Weve partnered 3 men in different parts of the ill come and go down to say face drought, wild animals, and man made threats in the constant fights for survival risk in it all books one. And ill just the the reduce the ash people in hawaii assess the damage of to the worst wildfires in a century the observe any age, great to have you with us. This is elsa 0 life from the also coming up echo doors Armed Forces Re to present to find those responsible for the assassination of a president ial candidate highlands. What type . Warranty says. Its on the verge of forming a government as coalition thoughts begin with military allied parties. The