Hardtalk. Kwame kweiarmah, welcome to hardtalk. , ~ , c, kwame kweiarmah, welcome to hardtalk. , ~ a kwame kweiarmah, welcome to hardtalk. , a c, hardtalk. Thank you so much for havin hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me it hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me. It is hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me. It is a hardtalk. Thank you so much for having me. It is a great having me. It is a Great Pleasure having me. It is a Great Pleasure to having me. It is a Great Pleasure to have having me. It is a Great Pleasure to have you. | having me. It is a great i pleasure to have you. You having me. It is a Great Pleasure to have you. You have beenin pleasure to have you. You have been in the Theatre Business as an actor, writer and director for best part of three decades. Ijust for best part of three decades. I just used that for best part of three decades. Ijust used that phrase, some would use and call it a cliche about the culture wars. Does it feel to you today there is a somewhat toxic Culture Walkways and i think you framed it beautifully. It is toxic but most importantly disingenuous, in my humble opinion. It is used to create political fear and ourjob as artists, it is i think, fundamentally to take away that fear. To think, fundamentally to take away that fear. Away that fear. To take away the binaries away that fear. To take away the binaries that away that fear. To take away the binaries that i away that fear. To take away the binaries that i think away that fear. To take away the binaries that i think this | the binaries that i think this farce of the culture wars. I often hear politicians and im not wanted Disc Politicians but you often hear politicians using race or class or immigration, or use history as a Battering Ram to get themselves into the hearts of themselves into the hearts of the populace. Themselves into the hearts of the pepulace themselves into the hearts of the populace. Those issues you outlined, race, the populace. Those issues you outlined, race, immigration, i outlined, race, immigration, they are central to your work because they are central to your own life story. Your own life story. Totally and utterly. Your own life story. Totally and utterly. Have your own life story. Totally and utterly. Have you your own life story. Totally and utterly. Have you be i and utterly. Have you be frightened and utterly. Have you be frightened of and utterly. Have you be frightened of entering i and utterly. Have you be i frightened of entering this territory at times . Frightened of entering this territory at times . Again, i think that territory at times . Again, i think that is territory at times . Again, i think that is framed think that is framed brilliantly. Fortunately for me, or unfortunately, when im afraid of something, i have to run towards it. I dont call that a virtue but it is fact for me. Without a shadow of a doubt, even producing the play thatis doubt, even producing the play that is on at the young vic now, beneath his place, i was worried for a while. I was worried for a while. I was worried that those of the right or even those of the left might come after me for some of the statements or some of the debates that the play wishes to catalyse. But i am an artist. We are here to do nothing but catalyse. I cannot run in fear from people trying to counsel you or use your work as an agenda for there is. I you or use your work as an agenda for there is. You or use your work as an agenda for there is. I want to talk more agenda for there is. I want to talk more about agenda for there is. I want to talk more about beneath i agenda for there is. I want to talk more about beneath his| talk more about beneath his place because i was lucky enough to see a few nights ago but before we get to that, more generally about your writing because you have been added for a time, do you do you see yourself as a provocateur . I describe myself as a political playwright, art is a tool for change, incremental change. We can do as an artist is catalyse the debate and i dont see the point of me using my art if it is not to incrementally try to make the world jUst A Little Bit better. Make the world Ust A Little Bit bettenh make the world Ust A Little Bit math bit better. But there is a difference bit better. But there is a difference between i bit better. But there is a i difference between catalysing a debate and putting across a very clear Point Of View. Do you have a clear Point Of View on some of these issues you outlined, like race, justice, immigration and inequality . Absolutely do but as a playwright myjob is to love every character i put in any of my place and in order to create something dramatic, i have to make sure that all viewpoints are covered. So, whether someone sits in the far right, which is a different position to me, i still have to understand what it is i think they are saying, or what i think the land that they stand upon, what validity does it have. Yes, Kwame Kwei Armah, sorry im speaking about myself and the third person, does political views and as a playwright i have a point i want to catalyse but it has to be fear and almost democratic. You call yourself kwame but you were raised as in roberts, and you were raised in southall, a very ethnically mixed part of london and which the 70s and 80s was the scene of real racial violence and tension. To what extent did that shape you . Very much so. It has not defined me but it has shaped me. I remember my father taking me. I remember my father taking me to the top of our street at the time, i think it was 1979, and a pub, a tavern, was a flame and it was because the skinheads, a skinhead group had performed and then attacked the black and brown people close to it. As my father took me to the top of the street and i saw the pub burning, and i would have been about 12, he said this is your country. Remember that. And i watched the police chase us down the street that i lived and i saw skinheads armed with truncheons and shields, and i saw this. That, that completely and utterly shaped the way i saw the world. And utterly shaped the way i saw the world. You said earlier that when saw the world. You said earlier that when you saw the world. You said earlier that when you are saw the world. You said earlier that when you are frightened i that when you are frightened you tend to run towards what frightens you rather than away. Did you run to what trouble in those days . Did you fight back . Depends on how you define fighting, right . Im never been a physically strong guys so the physical fight was not my thing. Did i have to run rather quickly when white Skinhead Culture at the time threatened the lives of everyone that i knew . Yes. Did i have to be able to defend myself to some degree . Yes. Butl able to defend myself to some degree . Yes. But i think what happened to me and it was kind of shape by my mother, she wanted me to be a lawyerfor socialjustice. Of course we do not call it that back then. She wanted me to be able to fight for the community from which i came from. When i discovered my way of fighting was art, and that my way of art was thinking, i went into Deep Training. It thinking, i went into deep trainint. , thinking, i went into Deep Training thinking, i went into deep trainint. , training. It is interesting if they wanted training. It is interesting if they wanted to training. It is interesting if they wanted to fight i training. It is interesting if they wanted to fight for i training. It is interesting if l they wanted to fight for your community. One thing he did in a way was by changing your name, identify with a community that was your ancestral Community Back in ghana rather than your immediate Family Connection which was to grenade up connection which was to grenade up in what was then the british caribbean. Granada. Why did you do that . Was it fuelled by an anger in a way, and anger with all the new what your ancestors had suffered and a determination to be seen and reclaim that history . Yes determination to be seen and reclaim that history . Reclaim that history . Yes and no. A reclaim that history . Yes and n0 a like reclaim that history . Yes and no. A like to reclaim that history . Yes and no. A like to frame reclaim that history . Yes and no. A like to frame it reclaim that history . Yes and no. A like to frame it that i i no. A like to frame it that i did it that i did it for me. For my parents travelled 4000 miles to raise me in the first world, to have the benefits of the first world. I wanted to do the first world. I wanted to do the same for my children. I didnt want my children to inherit the name of someone who once owned someone in your family. Once owned someone in your famil. � , i, once owned someone in your famil. � , family. And yet it was your tarents family. And yet it was your parents name. Family. And yet it was your parents name. Did family. And yet it was your parents name. Did it i family. And yet it was your i parents name. Did it sadden them . 5. Parents name. Did it sadden them . , t, parents name. Did it sadden them . ,. , � them . 5, of course it did. But my mother them . 5, of course it did. But my mother understood, i my mother understood, particularly my mother because that while she was there when i was watching the show roots and i saw the actor being whipped until he called himself toby and i said maam i will trace our ancestry and take us back to the trouble came from. In away when i did it, maybe ten years later, my mother could at least read that in a truth as opposed to newfangled politics. And ec rejected your mother is advised to enter law and become advised to enter law and become a civil rights lawyer. You thought you could best represent your community by going into the arts and the theatre but i would guess that Backin Theatre but i would guess that back in the 80s and 90s when youre trying to make your name, it was kind of tough to be a young, black man trying to persuade the edges, notjust as an actor but as a director as well . It an actor but as a director as well . , an actor but as a director as well . I, i, an actor but as a director as well . I,. , ~. , well . It was, i would like to describe well . It was, i would like to describe britain well . It was, i would like to describe britain as well . It was, i would like to describe britain as a well . It was, i would like to describe britain as a colder| describe britain as a colder land describe britain as a colder [and than it is now but i was standing on the shoulders of giants, actors generations before me, and Norman Beaton for example was on tv very often and indeed people were working, not being given the chances are opportunities that i many others receive today. If you had asked me at 25 did i think i would ever be in the Artistic Director of the young vic or even thought that was possible i would say absolutely not because i did not see anyone in that arena. I were you told, and i know you have talked about it and it somewhat difficult to talk about, you were told you did not look right, you were to black in a way, your voice was not right, all sorts of reasons why you would never make it in the theatre . Yes, yeah. Doesnt make you theatre . Yes, yeah. Doesnt make you angry theatre . Yes, yeah. Doesnt make you angry today i theatre . Yes, yeah. Doesnt make you angry today no. I theatre . Yes, yeah. Doesnt. Make you angry today no. Why because it is outrageous . It is outrageous because it is outrageous . It is outrageous because because it is outrageous . It 3 outrageous because i was taught to hate the sin and not the sinner. , , sinner. That sounds very zen and detached sinner. That sounds very zen and detached and sinner. That sounds very zen and detached and at sinner. That sounds very zen and detached and at peace i sinner. That sounds very zen i and detached and at peace with life but can he really honestly say that deep down there is not a burning rage at things you have experienced . I a burning rage at things you have experienced . A burning rage at things you have experienced . I think once i chased my have experienced . I think once i chased my ancestry have experienced . I think once i chased my ancestry and i have experienced . I think once i chased my ancestry and gave | i chased my ancestry and gave myself a name that was not of someone who once owned me, i found a piece, and inner peace that said what is myjob . My job now is to make sure that i reap the benefits of a land that once enslaved me. Ive a country that still, to some degree, discriminates against me and those look like me. So what do i do . Carry that anger . Hold that in my heart . That just makes you heavier. What i tried to do is bore that into my art and find avenues pour that into my heart to make others look within themselves. That is what theatre is. It is the most magnificent mirror, you put it up to people and they look at yourself i will not tell you about yourself, i will just not tell you about yourself, i willjust reflect not tell you about yourself, i will just reflect you not tell you about yourself, i willjust reflect you and if by chance you see something you dont like, it is up to you to change it. Dont like, it is up to you to change it dont like, it is up to you to change it. There was a time when it looked change it. There was a time when it looked like change it. There was a time when it looked like you i change it. There was a time | when it looked like you were really going to make your name in the United States because you broke a really quite dramatic Glass Ceiling in the us by becoming the first black director, Artistic Director of a big us theatre, the theatre in baltimore, maryland. Correct. In baltimore, maryland. Correct in baltimore, maryland. Correct. , i, i, i, correct. You are therefore a number correct. You are therefore a number of correct. You are therefore a number of years correct. You are therefore a number of years and correct. You are therefore a number of years and talked | number of years and talked about the joy you experienced when you arrive to a barack obama presidency, a feeling that america was really moving to a post racial moment has some put it. Didnt quite work out that way, did it . Some put it. Didnt quite work out that way, did it . Now, and i dont think out that way, did it . Now, and i dont think | out that way, did it . Now, and i dont think i ever out that way, did it . Now, and i dont think i ever believed i i dont think i ever believed it would be post racial. I thought i was living in country that allowed someone, unlike our country at the time, that allowed someone to negotiate the vagaries of racism, the vagaries of oppression, and that was really powerful and invigorating. That was really powerful and invigorating. You felt, others are talked invigorating. You felt, others are talked about invigorating. You felt, others are talked about it, invigorating. You felt, others are talked about it, other i are talked about it, other actors have talked about it, other British Black actors is that it found it easier to work in the United States and im interested now that you have reflected in both the culture in the us and uk that you really feel that there really is more opportunity and less entrenched as assumptions about eur. In the United States . Yes and no. Without eur. In the United States . Yes and no. Without a eur. In the United States . Yes and no. Without a doubt, eur. In the United States . I3; and no. Without a doubt, there are new opportunities, that is numerics and demographics and also the Enterprise Culture Thatis also the Enterprise Culture that is the United States and i found myself very comfortable in the United States. I liked to create and have ideas and try to execute them and the culture of the United States, if the idea is good enough, i will run at it. Sometimes i find in our country that it is notjust find in our country that it is not just about the quality of the idea, it is about who you are connected to. The idea, it is about who you are connected to. And yet, we saw the time are connected to. And yet, we saw the time of are connected to. And yet, we saw the time of the are connected to. And yet, we saw the time of the black are connected to. And yet, we | saw the time of the black lives matter movement, the killing of a whole series of young black, are not armed men by the police in the United States word armed man, whistle barack obama by donald trump unarmed men, and the rise of a conservative movement addressing issues, particularly in universities, in a way in which many Black Americans found deeply worrying and deeply racist. Conclusion for you . And deeply racist. Conclusion foryou . Is and deeply racist. Conclusion for you . Is america a more difficult place for you, for a black man, to thrive now in the United Kingdom . United kingdom . Again, The U UestionUnited Kingdom . Again, the question is United Kingdom . Again, the question is framed United Kingdom . Again, the| question is framed brilliantly. I think each [and has its own travails. In britain, we are magnificent at the micro aggression. We are magnificent at the kind of slight avoidance that race is not as bad here as it is in the United States and yes it is. It is in the United States and es it is. , it is in the United States and yes it is. Yes it is in the United States and yes it is. Yes it yes it is. Yes it is. Yes it is, absolutely. Yes it is. Yes it is. Yes it is, absolutely. Look yes it is. Yes it is. Yes it is, absolutely. Look at l yes it is. Yes it is. Yes it l is, absolutely. Look at the statistics around Prison Population and the disproportionate number of men under 25 unemployed and we can see structure in inequality exactly the same way. And i will quote exactly the same way. And i will quote the exactly the same way. And i will quote the words exactly the same way. And i will quote the words of exactly the same way. And i will quote the words of a exactly the same way. And i i will quote the words of a young talented black british writer he just wrote a book this is not america, why black lives matter in britain, where the argument is precisely we shouldnt transport assumptions about the entrenched racist, post slavery systems in the United States and think they translate to the uk. The uk, He Saysis Translate to the uk. The uk, he says is fundamentally different. Says is fundamentally different. ,. , different. What i love as we are living different. What i love as we are living in different. What i love as we are living in a different. What i love as we are living in a time different. What i love as we are living in a time where l are living in a time where there can be diverse thoughts on the black community, i happened to disagree with that i think it is flawed in its analysis but i am overjoyed he is able to find an audience for that kind of propagation. When he sa s, that kind of propagation. When he says. For that kind of propagation. When he says, for example, that kind of propagation. When he says, for example, that he says, for example, that Critical Race Theory, which is taught on campuses in the United States. Taught on campuses in the United States. ~. ,. , United States. Which people did not know about United States. Which people did not know about until United States. Which people did not know about until the United States. Which people did not know about until the right. Not know about until the right started talking about it. His argument started talking about it. His argument as started talking about it. His argument as it started talking about it. His argument as it does not really have a place in the University Culture or otherwise in culture in the uk because we did not have slavery, at least not on our home shores, we did not have official segregation as they did in the United States, and burdening, for example young people in the uk with notions of white privilege, white gilt, is a mistake . I again, have two respectively say i fundamentally disagree with that, we had a colour bar in this country and that is why we have things set up, the racial equality units that were set up in the 70s and 805 we set up in the 705 and 805 we absolutely have that. There is very good difference in my humble opinion and just because we did not have slavery in this country which technically is not true because that was up to a certain date, that does not mean certainly up until recently, that the overwhelming majority of black people in this country, were descendants of those who were enslaved. Just because it happened offshore in the gardens of europe does not mean notions of superiority were not exported, from those gardens of enterprise back into the motherland. And i have experienced it on my own life, is referenced at the beginning when i was at school, a Private School by the way, my head teacher said to me, black people cannot speak english properly because yourjaws are structured in a way that does not allow proper pronunciation. I was 11 years old. And if you say that to an 11 year old you are burying inferiority into their minds, and you are asserting your superiority. That is exactly the same thing that Critical Race Theory is trying to frame. Again i say i respectfully disagree with the analysis. Respectfully disagree with the anal sis. � ,. , analysis. And yet, having ust seen beneath i analysis. And yet, having ust seen beneath this i analysis. And yet, having just seen beneath this place the l seen beneath this place the revival of a play you wrote a decade ago that is on at the young back here in london. You clearly have some scepticism, some doubts about elements of the ultra progressive somewhat say woke mindset that we see in some liberal circles, on campuses, both in the United States and United Kingdom. You create this imagined debate about African American studies, on campus, and you wrestle with the notion that white professors are now dominant in this department. You are kind of mocking it. You are almost mocking an ultra woke agenda . I slightly rebuke the term woke in my generation was slightly before the woke generation used to call ourselves conscious which literally means the same thing, that has been hijacked by the culture was. Myjob as a playwright is to look at everything in its totality and pour it into the pot and put some flames on. We progressives and i define myself as a progressive sometimes we forget there is a need for conservatism. Conservatism sometimes is just a conservatism. Conservatism sometimes isjust a really conservatism. Conservatism sometimes is just a really good breaking mechanisms so that human beings can adjust to change. And i think that is what i feel as Kwame Kwei Armah and it is what i put in the play there are conservative oceans we should pay to attention or we progressives or the next generations will pay the next generations will pay the cost. Something like a donald trump after a barack obama. ~. ,. , donald trump after a barack obama. ,. , ,. , obama. What does being a progressive obama. What does being a progressive mean obama. What does being a progressive mean in obama. What does being a progressive mean in terms| obama. What does being a i progressive mean in terms of running a theatre, doesnt mean you believe in race quotas, and race equality across casting. Whatever the play, whatever the actual subject matter, you insist on 50 50 casting for example . Insist on 5050 casting for example . Example . No, i ust cried m self example . No, i ust cried myself as example . No, i ust cried myself as a example . No, ijust cried myself as a black example . No, ijust cried myself as a black person | example . No, ijust cried myself as a black person which means i can do in an and anything, ido means i can do in an and anything, i do not define myself through my blackness, thatis myself through my blackness, that is just part of who i am, as a leader i believe a Theatre Spaceis as a leader i believe a Theatre Space is there to be the centre of a community. And a community in london is as diverse as it gets, i want my theatre for my staff is on my stage from who directs to her director who writes, wanted to reflect the london of now, the briton of now, and possibly. London of now, the briton of now, and possibly. Right, but this is not now, and possibly. Right, but this is not just now, and possibly. Right, but this is notjust about now, and possibly. Right, but this is notjust about kwame i this is notjust about Kwame Kwei Armah, it is about systems and it is about equality across the p. I have spoken in the past two greg doran at the rfc and actors like Rupert Everett, Rupert Everett has a strong feeling that we are getting far too hung up on this notion of authenticity and lived experience when it comes to casting, you do not have to be gay to play the part of a gay person on stage. I wonder whether you share that feeling or whether you think authenticity requires that sort of thing . I authenticity requires that sort of thin. . ~ authenticity requires that sort of thin . ~ , authenticity requires that sort of thin . ~ ,. , of thing . I think it Depends On The la , of thing . I think it Depends On The play, depends of thing . I think it Depends On The play, depends on of thing . I think it Depends On The play, Depends On The of thing . I think it depends on | the play, Depends On The artist and the audience. As far as im concerned when you walk into a theatre you hang your literal boot 5 up at the door. Which, for me means most people should have access to most things. There are protective characteristics, and which if im going to cast a white actor to Play A Black Character is written, i will think about the history of discrimination, i will think about how my audience might respond to it, and if ultimately it will serve the play. In a similar way if i have a black act in a part that might be traditionally from another culture, but gets in way of the play i will not do it. I am there to serve the art. What i also have to do is understand audiences want to incrementally be brought forward, they do not want to sit where they were, they come in two spaces at the young vic to say challenge me, take me to that next place. Ii to say challenge me, take me to that next place. That next place. If you change the profile that next place. If you change the profile of that next place. If you change the profile of the that next place. If you change the profile of the young that next place. If you change the profile of the young vic, i the profile of the young vic, traditionally theatre in london is dominated by white middle class people . Have you changed that . I middleclass people . Have you changed that . You changed that . I wanted a diverse audience you changed that . I wanted a diverse audience and you changed that . I wanted a diverse audience and that you changed that . I wanted a diverse audience and that is l diverse audience and that is one of the reasons i wanted to lead the young vic. I think we have augmented that. I am proud of my staff, when i walked in the door it is not as diverse as it looks today, when i walked in i said to my senior managers i want people who look like my mother and my cousins making decisions. If you walk into my administrative value would see that, have we made structural changes, absolutely, have demanded by quotas, not, we have demanded by seeking excellence. D0 we have demanded by seeking excellence. Excellence. Do you think the theatre has excellence. Do you think the theatre has much excellence. Do you think the theatre has much of excellence. Do you think the theatre has much of a excellence. Do you think the l theatre has much of a future . Yes . ,. , ~ theatre has much of a future . Yes . ,. ,. , theatre has much of a future . Yes . ,. , i. , yes look around you look at the way in yes look around you look at the way in which yes look around you look at the way in which so yes look around you look at the way in which so many the way in which so many talented actors and directors seem to be drawn to streaming platforms, to the money and the resources and the potential thatis resources and the potential that is offered by something that, frankly threatens the future of the theatre . Stephen, its a Brilliant Future of the theatre . Stephen, its a brilliant question its a brilliant question because in truth it is quite hard. There is a strike happening right now. It is quite hard to get writers for the theatre to have a certain level purely because theatre pays very little and tv pays a light and similarly for actor. You have dallied with film yourself. You have dallied with film yourself you have dallied with film ourself. ,. ,. ,. , yourself. This is an art form which has yourself. This is an art form which has existed yourself. This is an art form which has existed from yourself. This is an art form i which has existed from Ancient Egypt right up to today and i do not believe the challenge of streaming or the challenge of another technology will get on the way of the human being staring at another human being, telling a facet of their story. 0urjob which is why i really appreciate the question, is to understand where our audiences and to reach and find and speak to them in a way that says it is worth leaving your house to come and see a reflection of yourself in 3d. We had to reach through all of the barriers and make ourselves continuously valid. ~. ,. , valid. We have to end there, kwame kweiarmah, valid. We have to end there, kwame kweiarmah, it valid. We have to end there, kwame kweiarmah, it has. Valid. We have to end there, kwame kweiarmah, it has been a Kwame Kwei Armah, it has been a pleasure. Thank you for being on hard to talk. Hardtalk. Thank you so much, stephen. Wet and windy weather on the way for wednesday. More on that in a second. But first of all, we start off with the news that for northern ireland, weve had the wettestjuly on record, with over double the averagejuly rainfall. Those records go back to 1836. It was also the wettestjuly on record for greater manchester, merseyside and lancashire as well. Now, weve got more rain to come through wednesday. This area of low pressure continues to strengthen and were going to see a swathe of particularly strong winds just running to the south of this hook of cloud you can see just here. Now, that is going to be working into the south west of the uk, but already those winds are picking up across south west england, across Southern Parts of wales, as our band of rain gets driven northwards and eastwards across much of the country. And, ok, its going to be a mild start to the day on wednesday, but those winds will continue to strengthen during the first part of the morning. The windiest weather works in across the south coast of england, where were looking at gusts of around a0 to 55 miles an hour. Even stronger for Northern France and the channel islands, where we could see gusts of 60 odd miles an hour. Now, winds that strong could bring down one or two trees, so you might find some localised disruption. You might also see the ferries running with even some cancellations or delays, so it might be worth checking before travelling if you have plans that way. Therell be plenty of heavy downpours for england and wales, some thunder mixed in, some really heavy downpours. But for northern scotland, well, this is probably where the brightest, driest weather is going to be. Youll manage a little bit of sunshine. It probably wont be too bad a day. Now, through wednesday night, the worst of the rain clears away eastwards, but you can still see some tightly packed isobars across the uk as we head into thursday. It will be a blustery day, with some of the strongest winds this time heading into northern ireland, driving in frequent showers here. Therell also be loads of showers for Northern Areas of scotland. But across inland areas, you probably have to wait, really, until the afternoon until we start to see those showers become really widespread and heavy. Now, its not going to be the warmest of days for for august, with temperatures generally high teens, maybejust about the low 205. And that kind of Weather Pattern continues friday and into the weekend. We might even see some longer spells of rain across england and wales as the low pressure potentially moves its way in this weekend. But if youre fed up with being rained on over the last, what, six or seven weeks, better news for next week. It looks like we might have found the first signs of something that resembles summer late next week. Live from london, this is bbc news. Donald trumps charged with plotting to overturn his defeat in the last election the third set of criminal charges brought against the former us president. Today, an indictment was unsealed, charging Donaldj Trump with conspiring to defraud the United States, conspiring to disenfranchised voters, conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. President trumps called it another fake indictment and an attempt to interfere in next years election campaign. Also in the programme, more europeans evacuated from niger return after the coup, leaving behind a country in limbo. And protecting the planet its earth overshoot day, we examine how the global population is taking too much out of the planet. Hello, im sally bundock. Donald trump has been criminally charged with plotting to overturn his defeat in the us president ial election of 2020, the most serious legal threat yet to the former president as he campaigns to return to the white house. Hes charged with four counts in the 45 page indictment brought by special counseljack smith. The charges are