Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

Scalise . Who do you think might have the votes to lead your party and the house . All three of those would be Excellent Choices and i think they can do an excellent job. Theyre honorable men, to me at least, and theyve never openly mocked me, anyway. They sure as heck have always kept their word to me. Theres several others that have whispered in my ear during all of this. And of course i dont want to out them, i understand that they have to keep their secrecy about them. But there are several Milling Around that are very interested in doing this. Mark green from tennessee is somebody that people have been talking about. So theres several out there that people are talking about. Im sorry, but i just find this so shocking. What exactly did he say to mock your faith, sir . It really doesnt matter. It was just the fact that i publicly stated on your station, i think, this morning that i was praying about it and i had two paths to go, either go with my friend or go with my conscious, and i was praying that god would tell me what to do, which he does. My daddy fought in the pacific in the Second World War and he talked about prayer a lot. Were praying people. I asked god to show me what the right thing to do is. Im not trying to save your soul, but thats the path i go down on a lot of bills, i pray for my wife, my daughter, my enemies, i pray for the speaker, i pray for this president. When things come up, i pray for his son. As a christian, thats what im supposed to do. But when someone mocks me like that and mocks my religion, honestly, the bible is pretty clear about god being mocked, so thats what sealed it right there for me. I said, this is not the quality or the character of person that i want as speaker of the United States. I cant understand that at all. Do you expect that before you go to bed tonight, sir, that youll have a new speaker . I have no earthly idea, brother. I do not know that. If you know that, youre a bigger insider than i thought you were. Thanks for coming on, sir. Good to see you. Thank you, brother. Its always a pleasure. Lets talk this over with kaitlan collins. I didnt know you were here. Good to see you. Actually, i was speaking with congressman last night and he said he was leaning forward, but praying about it. And obviously he meant it. He wasnt saying it ironically. I dont understand why look, i wasnt there, i didnt hear the call. But, obviously, this is a man of deep religious faith, and obviously whatever now former Speaker Mccarthy said to him, he thought he was being mocked. Well, and he was leaning towards that way. He said he did not see his vote changing in the next 48 hours. But potentially there could be. We havent heard Kevin Mccarthys side of this. But if you are trying to keep your job as the house speaker, maybe mocking someone for saying theyre praying about it is not necessarily the way to go. Youre watching the lead right now. Its the top of the hour. Youre watching the lead on an incredibly momentous, incredibly historic day. It has never happened in the history of this great republic, the greatest country in the history of the world, that a speaker of the house has been ousted by a vote of his colleagues. It has never happened, ever. And yet that just happened minutes ago. Former speaker of the house, Kevin Mccarthy, ousted by a motion to vacate. There has been a motion to vacate before that did happen in 1910, with Speaker Cannon, who survived the vote. Now former Speaker Mccarthy did not. Cannon has the most Historic House building named after him. Look, i just want to take a step back for a second. Im picking up in my sort of conversations and looking at the chatter thats going on from people close to Kevin Mccarthy. I think that they are preparing for him to step back and to not be a part of this conversation. That is what i read into what im hearing from them. Theyre talking about those who are close to him saying he was a great speaker, talking in a real way that says, hey, we think hes leaving the stage. Theres reporting coming in from our hill team that basically says republicans that support him have no idea whats going to happen next. I think thats another area where we have done this long enough to know that the number of times things happen and you have no idea whats going to happen next, especially in the house, its extraordinarily rare. It kind of really means, i think, that anything could happen. It was very interesting to hear matt gaetz talk about the names. Patrick mchenry is extraordinarily close to mccarthy. He did not sound positive. He said we would need a real meeting of the minds. He did talk to Steve Scalise. Scalise is somebody who was wanted the gavel, but hes in the midst of a battle with cancer and that is another thing to consider here. And i just think we are in unprecedented territory here on this set, in the halls of the House Of Representatives, in the gop conference room. Congressman emmer, if were throwing out names, is somebody who got up and spoke, a republican from minnesota. He not only is the chair of the conference, meaning he is in charge of communications on behalf of the conference excuse me, hes whip. Yeah, number three. Even more so, he is in charge of talking to people about where their votes are. The point i was making, was before that, his first goaround, he was the head of the nrcc, the guy in charge of getting republicans elected. So he has a lot of relationships. Just going back to what you were saying about Kevin Mccarthy, manu rightly has been trying to get mccarthy and people around mccarthy to answer the question whether or not after this he is going to go back. There will be a speakers vote and he could try to get nominated again and just kind of Roll The Dice since he did it 15 times before. My sense, like yours, is that the people around mccarthy think that that likely wont happen. There certainly are very big mccarthy fans in the conference who might try to push him that way, but i would not hold my breath for that to happen. I think that we finally reached Kevin Mccarthys capacity for political humiliation. We didnt know that we would get there, but were here. Ive seen him stop on a dime to talk to manu, so watching him blow past was an interesting moment. I also want to say that fundamentally, it is a shock, because this isnt someone who was voted out. This isnt someone who stepped back from the speakership and didnt seek reelection. We have seen people leave under sort of pitiful circumstances. This is a selfown, fundamentally, the party did this to itself nationally for everyone to see. And watching them put themselves back together, i think, will be the challenge over the next few days. What do you think . I think this is a huge gift to democrats. This morning i woke up and one of the first poll numbers i saw was for the First Time Since 1991, americans believe republicans would be better than democrats on the economy by a wider margin than they have since 1991, and that is not what republicans on the hill are going to get to talk about. Not until this is resolved. In some ways, i was laughing about this earlier, theres a line from die hard you asked for a miracle, democrats, i give you the gop. But in this indicase, only a hal of members. The vast majority of the conference is united. But with such a slim majority and such bizarre and terrible incentives in our politics today, the weakness of our party is allowing this to happen. And anderson cooper, as i invoke history and remind you, the last time there was a motion to vacate was in 1910, and Speaker Cannon did survive that, unlike now former Speaker Mccarthy. But i will tell you that in 1912 the democrats recaptured the house. Weve never seen a day like today. I want to bring in Maria Salazar of florida who voted in support of Kevin Mccarthy to remain as speaker. Thank you for joining us. What do you say to your eight gop colleagues who voted to oust Kevin Mccarthy . Well, democracy is messy. I represent the City Of Miami and were in love with the american political system. Its not a very happy day for that political system. I was a little distraught with what has been marked, but i have to respect what the other members of congress have decided to vote, because that is the way democracy works. But now we dont have a speaker, we still have the same problems that we had yesterday and the day before. Spending and the border. Is this a problem of the american political system or is it a problem of todays Republican Party, and how do you heal this problem . How do you fix it . I agree with what youre saying, that we have a few members that are just not in line with what the Republican Party represents. Moderates and conservatives. That has been debated in conference all throughout this month. But lets look forward, because what happened, its not what we wanted to happen, but maybe something good comes out of it. I am an eternal optimist. We have a problem with the border and we have a problem with spending. And that was all we heard in that debate. Mccarthy has tried to do what he could within eight months. We have a major fiscal issue. 6 billion a day that we are spending. We need to stop that. Democrats, republicans, independents. And we have a problem at the border. And i want to share with you, because this is the first time weve talked and youre one of the big boys at cnn, is that salazar has presented something that could definitely help democrats and republicans, which is called the dignity act. It seals the border, and at the same time gives dignity to those people who have lived here in the shadows. Nothing is going to get done until theres a speaker, and theres no sign of how thats going to happen. What are you hearing about what the republican conference does next . Will there be a Speakership Vote tonight . There will be a speaker soon. Mccarthy, as im sure you know, left a list, apparently that is the way the rules work. Theres a pro tem speaker right now, patrick mchenry. And if mccarthy decides not to come back as a supporter of mccarthy, would you like him to come back . Listen, lets go into conference and lets decide whats going to happen. What we know is this bickering cannot continue because we have eight more Appropriation Bills that need to be passed in order to fund the rest of the government. If youre a supporter of mccarthy, would you support him if he wants to try to become speaker again, or are there any other republicans you would support to become speaker . I would support the republican that can move the conference forward, that has the votes to continue what i just said, the peoples business. The Average American that is watching us doesnt quite understand. Who would have the votes . Is there anybody on your radar . No one, really, has the votes. So now were going to go through that exercise right now and see who has our support and has enough credibility in order to move forward. Does this hurt republicans credibility just among the electorate, people who want stuff to actually get done, the act you talked about, that youre supporting on the border . I mean, Kevin Mccarthy has been in power for a long time. Theres not much new being proposed on the border thats gotten passed. We were having conversations. Does this Damage Republicans . Well, its not the best optics for republicans, but at the same time we dont run our conference the way nancy pelosi did, which was a lot more or less democratic. Thats why i said to you a few minutes ago, democracy is messy. Im guessing Speaker Mccarthy wishes he had run things like nancy pelosi, no . He would still be in power. The thing is that that is a longer conversation as to why he was not able to do it. And im sure that you know the answer to that. But going back to the regular american guy competence . I dont think its competence. I think its other issues that i dont think we should be discussing right now because this is a moment of reckoning for the Republican Party. But i repeat, the american audience that is watching us has problems, they have to pay rent, the inflation is very high. I dont have to explain to you the state of the economy. We need to lower the spending, we have to create more jobs, and we have to seal the border, which is number one for everyone, including the dems. Look whats happening in new york city. So i repeat, there are solutions out there, and i have introduced legislation, bipartisan, im one of the most bipartisan members in congress. At least the solution is out there. But i know that you want to talk about the speaker. No one really knows. Whoever tells you, i know who it is, no one really knows. But i can maybe advance some information later on after we go to conference. Congresswoman salazar, appreciate it. Thank you very much. A busy day here. Back to the team in new york. Listen, historic day. You cant understate it. We talked about john cannon, the last speaker that faced a motion to vacate. In 2015 i was working for mark meadows when he introduced one against john bohner. John made the calculation that he didnt care if he was not a dar darling of the right wing, in his legacy was going to be that hes a sellout, if it meant passing bills and keeping his conference in order. Kevin mccarthy made a very different decision. He created the weaponization of the Justice Department subcommittee on oversight. I mentioned the Tucker Carlson tapes, the concessions he made to the right flank, only for them to knife him not even in the back, in the front. I think it was a miscalculation of his own leadership. I would disagree with our friends in d. C. , i wouldnt be surprised if he puts his name forward to be the speaker. There are so few who would get 218. I think thats an important point. Well see what happens and im sure well find out if he makes his way to manu raju at some point with the microphone. Im sure hes dying to talk to our friend, manu. He controls a lot of the process going forward. A lot of the names being floated are allies of Kevin Mccarthy, so they would have to be confident that he was stepping to the side in order to put their names forward. Thats not dissimilar from what we saw earlier this year when he became speaker. Were asking the same questions, who else . There were the same names being put forward but none would do it until mccarthy stepped to the side. So he has to make that decision. If mccarthy puts his name forward again, he doesnt have to stand by the same concessions he made the last time, would he . He would have to make more, i would imagine. Wow. He would have to make more to either the hard liners or really strike a deal with the democrats, which seems off the table. The chickens have come home to roost. Matt gaetz is an avatar of, in my opinion, everything thats wrong with the gop, unserious, uninterested in governing, attention seeking, not interested in solving problems, obsessed with identifying rather than converts. And Kevin Mccarthy capitulated and Empowered Matt Gaetz and that selfdestructive wing of the party and had to play by his rules. Live by the rules, die by the rules. Thats where hes at right now. And its ironic to see Kevin Mccarthy pointing at matt gaetz as youve broken the party. Mccarthy is responsible for matt gaetz in a lot of ways. Anderson, it is amazing as a democrat to sit here and watch what the Republican Party is going through. We think of ourselves as being the disorganized ones, everyone having their own opinion. I think what were watching is a large, Major American Political Party come apart at the seams. Theyve got a nominee or almost nominee for president who has been indited four times, his business is probably going to be taken away from him in new york city. Theen weve got a speaker of the house who has been taken out. How is it that were supposed to have any kind of bipartisan reckoning and come up with good policy when there is no partner at the other side of the table . I think this is actually a moment for the American Public to sit back and take a breath, because we just cant continue to go on in this way where we dont have a partner on the republican side. It is also an indictment of our political system. A minority of one chamber, of one branch of government, is basically grinding everything to a halt. Intentionally. And the reason that minority is so empowered is because we have a political system in which the republican conference is more or less run by people who will never see a real primary challenger. Those districts are only going further to the right. So this problem is not getting any better, its only going to get worse. And the tyranny of a minority of a minority within this country, stopping anything from happening. Theres no judgment about whether its good or bad, but nothing is happening. Its bigger than just the primary, its the filibuster. Theres a whole series of things which empower the minority in a way that does not happen in other countries. Absolutely. If you think about what it is they want, what it is theyre talking about doing, theyre talking about stopping people from coming across the border. We see in the courts conservatives are trying to take away affirmative action, take away womens rights and control over their bodies, we see the president going around the country, basically challenging institutions everywhere he turns. Its as if the modern society that we spent almost 100 years, 60 or 70 years trying to build is the thing theyre against. Its not like were just arguing over how much were going to spend on this thing or that. Were arguing over what kind of country were going to be and this minority of minority is standing up saying were not for the country that the Establishment Republicans and the democrats seem to be for. Even in a moment with the congresswoman you just spoke with, they essentially say the majority of House Republicans, we want to secure the border, lower spending and deal with our fiscal house and get it in order. Thats not actually what the focus has been, by any means. And of course this notion that going through a full eight appropriations process, which we havent done in over 25 plus years is the answer to everything, not the fact that you have divided government. There is just a Reality Check that needs to be woken up to and its not coming any time soon. I would say this, though. I think what youre most likely to see is one of three or four of those who are already kind of in Kevin Mccarthys inner circle that are going to put their names forward. Theres not a reality where youre going to see a Freedom Caucus member elected as speaker and theyre going to run into the same reality, in 44 days we have to fund the government again. Are they going to pull the motion to vacate when you have to inevitably cut a deal with democrats . We should not underestimate the degree to which some of this, as Kevin Mccarthy has said, is a personality dispute. Matt gaetz does not like Kevin Mccarthy, some of these individuals do not like the guy. And they might be willing to work with someone else who is not named Kevin Mccarthy, even if they share basically the same politics. That is possible, too. Matt gaetz has mentioned Steve Scalise several times. Thats probably true, theres a lot of personality going on here. But matt gaetz wants to be famous no matter what. Whether he wins or loses, hell go on to pick another fight to get more attention, raise more money. I think trump ushered in a lot of candidates and elected officials who were there just to be famous and get attention. Theyre not there to govern. Theyre definitely not there to solve problems. And its hair on fire for conservatives like me, because when matt gaetz gets up and talks about the deficit and lowering the debt, things that i really care about, this was absent in the era of trump. This was not important to donald trump, who exploded the debt. And republicans went along with him. Absolutely. Mike pence, the most deficit hawk ive ever met, right, is sitting in the second chair, watching this all happen. So its a little rich for me. Lets go back to jake in washington. Anderson, thank you so much. The first thing were going to do is go to manu raju, who is going to bring us the latest from capitol hill, where tempers and tensions are riding high. Manu . Reporter yeah, thats right. Ive been talking to members outside of here, republican members just angry. Republicans who support Kevin Mccarthy are attacking what theyre calling socalled conservatives who went after and took mccarthy out of the speakership. Youre Hearing One Mccarthy Detractor after another criticizing the speaker. Congresswoman nancy mace saying that mccarthy broke his promise to her with issues involving womens rights and she was furious. We do expect sometime around 6 30 p. M. Eastern time, House Republicans will gather Behind Closed Doors to discuss their way forward. Well see what ultimately comes out of that closeddoor meeting. We have reporting from our colleagues, they are hearing the meeting will happen tonight. That could be a significant moment as well, because the question remains, what will Kevin Mccarthy do . Will he decide to run for speaker . He refused to answer questions when he walked off of the house floor. He walked into the Speakers Office and hes huddling with his advisers at this moment. There is a groundswell of support for him to run again. In talking to them, they say they are sticking with him. But the onus is on him to decide how to proceed. If he does decide to go forward, its clear he does not have a majority of the house to elect him as speaker. The democrats will vote for Hakeem Jeffries, the mccarthy detractors will vote for somebody else. If mccarthy steps aside, who is the consensus pick . There is no unanimity on that. Theres Sharp Division about who will lead their conference. These are some of the key questions that they will be grappling with Behind Closed Doors tonight. And, jake, the question also is, when will the next speakers race be . Were told, unlikely tonight, well see if it happens as soon as tomorrow. But that is a very significant decision, because the house cannot do anything until there is a speaker who is elected here. One institution of the federal government in complete paralysis after this vote, historic vote today to remove Kevin Mccarthy as the speaker of the house. Completely selfinflicted wound by the house gop, the Majority Party in the House Of Representatives. Manu raju, thank you so much. To reiterate, the house Republican Party, the House Republican conference is going to have a meeting of all of their members this evening, likely around 6 30 p. M. Eastern, according to sources. Its not an officially scheduled meeting. Sources also told cnn that any sort of Election Vote to vote for a new speaker is not expected for this evening as of right now. So lets talk about this right now, jonah goldberg, the first thing i want to know is play some sound from january 7th of this year when Speaker Mccarthy got through former Speaker Mccarthy got through 15 rounds of votes, and he was asked about this very difficult process. This is what he had to say. How do you expect to govern this way, if it has been taking this long to get the Conference United . This is the great part. Because it took this long, now we learned how to govern. Now well be able to get the job done. So that didnt age well. No. Neither did the bring it on tweets. This is one of the most unsurprising Shocking Stories in a very long time. Speaker mccarthy knew that matt gaetz was a scorpion, but he just had to, like, play the story out and this is how i think everybody sort of knew it was going to happen. Get on my back, ill take you across the river. And then, boom. One of the weird ironies of all of this is mccarthy did more for the broader house Freedom Caucus, for the bomb throwers, for the matt gaetz types than any speaker in republican history. It just wasnt enough because the Incentive Structure for a fundamentally irreducible number is simply the performative actions. Matt gaetz and nancy mace get everything they want. Look, i actually agree with almost everything matt gaetz said on the floor about regular order and spending bills. Sure. 33 trillion in debt, of course. The guy who voted for donald trump to be speaker in january is not actually concerned with any of those things. Its all performative nonsense. He just comes out of this a winner if he doesnt get beaten to death by the other members in the house gym. Theres no plan for whats next. I found it very amusing when he was asked by the scrum of reporters around him, youve never seen someone so happy to be talking to a scrum of reporters. He was thrilled. Hes in the limelight. Hes going to fundraise. Hes got his eyes on being governor. Hes sending out the texts right now. When asked, would you put your name in, no, absolutely not. Nobody is interested in leading. Theyre all interested in bomb throwing, interested in trying to make a name for themselves on social media. But leaderships is really, realy hard. I suspect over the next coming days finding someone who can be that leader for the full caucus is going to be very challenging. Funding for the government runs out in 43 now. This is looming and every day this consumes the houses time is less time to pass regular spending bills without having to kick the can down the road. Congressman don bacon from the omaha area of nebraska is a more moderate republican. He told cnn that he would love to have gaetz out of the republican conference. He said, quote, he shouldnt be in the Republican Party, but when asked if he would be the one to make the move to kick him out, he said, i dont know, well talk about it privately. He had a district that went for biden, hes a retired general. What does it say about the Republican Party and their leaders . Apparently you can brag on tape about grabbing women by the privates and theyll stand by you. You can fullment an insurrection and theyll stand by you. You can be indicted 91 times, Adjudicated By A Civil Court for sexually abusing a woman on fifth avenue. Theyll stand by you. But you pass a cr thats too big, hes out. 91 counts. Sorry, 91 counts, four indictments. Five if you count the superseding indictment. Anyway, i take your point. Kaitlan collins, i guess the big question is whether the house gop, like, whats going to happen, who are they going to pick. Are they going to pick tom cole, Steve Scalise . Why are they not voting tonight . I think its because there is no plan or alternative. For people who say why would you do this without having that, thats what a lot of conservative voices are saying, without having that backup plan. Their goal was to get rid of mccarthy. It wasnt to install someone else. Their goal was they didnt like What Mccarthy was doing. This was the most predictable thing ever. Its surprising Kevin Mccarthy lasted this long. If you remember back to when we were watching those 15 rounds of voting and what he agreed to, and it is true that he did make agreements with the white house and then went back on those agreements, so theres no love lost for him anywhere else in washington. So i think thats the question here. And, also, one thing that im watching because trump felt like he had this outsized influence on mccarthy finally getting the gavel in january. A lot of republicans who were nos and then voted present dont believe that. Trump himself is weighing in and saying why are republicans fighting each other and not democrats . Even trump is saying that. On that subject, you might remember in the closing hours of the 15 rounds of balloting, Marjorie Taylor greene getting a message and it said d. T. , and donald trump, you said, taking credit for it, dana bash, you reminded me of this moment, here is Kevin Mccarthy, newly speaker, i believe on january 7th of this year, talking about donald trump and expressing his appreciation for his help. I do want to especially thank president trump. I dont think anybody should doubt his influence. Where was he . Where was he today . In court, trying to defend his businesses. Not trying to defend kevin. Thats the problem with trying to appease a constituency of one. It is a oneway street with donald trump and this is exhibit z of that. Joining us now, democratic congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of washington state, the chair of the progressive caucus. I appreciate you not bringing what i expect was a big tub of popcorn that you were holding earlier today. The Democratic Party united in voting to remove Kevin Mccarthy. But i have to say, the institution of the House Of Representatives does suffer, does it not . Well, you know, jake, we had extensive conversations within the Democratic Caucus on this, and i think we really thought through this very carefully. I dont think any one of us actually takes any joy in this. I have this very strange feeling sitting On The House Floor, i didnt feel like cheering, i didnt want to clap. I dont think any of us did, because the reality is that we need a congress that runs efficiently. We cannot be responsible for a Governing Party that can not govern. And this Republican Party has been unable to govern for a long time. And, really, in the nine months that theyve been in office. And it has constantly been chaos and driving us to the brink of despair and shutdown and threats about all kinds of things, not to mention the polarization, the division, the racism, all of the things that this extreme Republican Party stands for. So we dont take any pleasure in this. But lets be clear about something, the republicans have the majority in the house. It is their job to pick a speaker. They cannot come to us and say, you pick a speaker. Thats not our responsibility. If were picking a speaker, we have our speaker. Its leader Hakeem Jeffries, soon to be speaker Hakeem Jeffries when we take back the majority. As long as republicans have the majority, they have the responsibility to pick a speaker. They have the responsibility to govern. And if they cant govern, then turn it over to us and we democrats will govern in the same way that we governed for the last two years when we had the majority with a very slim margin under speaker emerita now, speaker pelosi, we were able to get a tremendous amount done for the american people. Lets be clear, its their responsibility. 100 . The Majority Party is in charge of picking their own speaker, no disagreement at all. But theyre having a problem. They have somewhere between five to eight members who are not going to pick Kevin Mccarthy, and i dont know i assume theyre going to be able to pick somebody. But hypothetically, if they came to you and said if a majority of them said, look, i know you dont agree with tom cole or tom emmer, somebody for whom i assume you disagree with all of his politics, but maybe you at least think he is a respectable person on the other side of the aisle, if we made some concessions in terms of power sharing, would 10 or 20 democrats be willing to support this, just so we can function as a House Of Representatives . Maybe not you as the chair of the house progressive caucus, but is that a reasonable turn of events, do you think . Its too hypothetical. Not really. Its too hypothetical, because, again, five republicans could come over right now and help us to elect Hakeem Jeffries. I guess thats true. That is the question you should be asking, five socalled moderate republicans. Because ill tell you Something Else about these socalled moderate republicans, they have voted with the extremist maga Republican Party every single step of the way. And i dont think we should give them a pass by calling them moderate republicans. Theres nothing moderate about voting every step of the way for all the things that this Republican Party has stood for. Steep cuts, taking us to the brink of a shutdown, taking us to the brink of defaulting on the debt, taking us into polarizing, divisive, horrific conversations about a nationwide plan on abortion. Lets go through the whole thing. And lets just be clear that when you talk about Speaker Mccarthy, these people who elected Speaker Mccarthy to be their speaker elected somebody who on january 6th, jake, stood On The House Floor and said that trump admitted that trump was responsible for helping to start an insurrection, and then went and voted in the exact opposite way. This is a pattern and these socalled moderate republicans that youre naming, including some of the ones you name, and i have Great Respect for all of my colleagues, but lets just be clear, this is not let five of them come over and vote with us for speaker of the house. I hear you. Let me ask you one quick question, which is i know that Kevin Mccarthy is someone for whom, let us say, Many Democrats your respect knows bounds, lets put it that way. Do you think that if this situation, hypothetically speaking, had happened to a paul ryan or a tom cole or a tom emmer, that it would have played out the same way . Somebody that you disagree with, somebody that you disagree with, but its never our responsibility as democrats to select a republican. It just isnt. I get it. If you want to talk about power sharing, thats a different question. But we are far away from anything like that that would really give control back to democrats. So i just think that what really needs to happen is ask those five socalled moderate republicans, or the ones that are in biden districts, where are they . Get them on your show, and ask them, where are they . I dont think ive ever called any of them moderate. Democratic congresswoman, always good to see you. Thank you so much. Lets bring back the panel. The question i asked just a second ago about where is donald trump, who helped get Kevin Mccarthy elected speaker, according to Kevin Mccarthy, let me just ask you, where was donald trump . He is the leader of the Republican Party. He was in court today being reprimanded for Posting Smears about the judges clear, which is a whole other story that we can get into later. But where was he . The House Republican conference is enthralled to him. He could have told matt gaetz cut it out, he could have told Kevin Mccarthy its time for you to go. He could have played any number of roles. I dont know that he could have gotten matt gaetz to stand down. Thats an interesting hypothetical. I think donald trump wants to stay as far away from this as possible, because his brand has always been im an outsider, im not part of the establishment, im not part of that mess that goes on in washington, despite the fact that he was the president of the United States and is ostensibly the leader of the Republican Party. He still very much tries to convey this im an outsider. For someone like him, i actually think what we just saw is only going to help donald trump in this president ial race to say, look at those normal Establishment Republicans, they cant do anything. You need to continue to have someone like me. I would have never lost. Im a winner. I think this completely feeds into his narrative by him taking ten steps away and saying this is not my problem. That may be true, but, also, where was donald trump . He could have been tweeting about this instead of tweeting or posting something that would get him in trouble with the judge. There was a path you could have taken that would have made a lot of peoples days a lot easier. Is this the end of the relationship between him and kevin . That will be interesting. Tonights meeting, is it going to be an airing of grievances before they get to the business of who would be next. Is there going to be an effort to expel matt gaetz . Whats interesting is who they pick next, it could potentially happen much faster than january when it took the 15 rounds. When you ask those hard liners, and obviously tim did not tell you who he had in mind, but theyve thrown out several names. There are several people that could get their support. If they do agree with someone, it could be sooner. What would happen to todays vote if they still had the package they had where all votes for speaker were Secret Ballot . I think you could have gotten some democrats to vote to keep Kevin Mccarthy in there. Just for the sake of stability . To punish matt gaetz and the sort of craziness stuff. But they cant go on the record. But i also dont think nancy mace would have voted for it. Maybe some of the other ones who voted to oust mccarthy would have done it because they want the credit for having done it. If its a Secret Ballot, whats the point of it, other than to go out and say that you did it . This is one of the areas where, again, the incentives because of social media, because of cable news, because of small donors, all sorts of things, the incentives reward all of the people who set their hair on fire and punishes moderates who try to govern. If you had a Secret Ballot, i think you would empower those people and deter the crazies. Its become a cliche, democrats in disarray, because literally for decades, that has been something that happened. I have to say, the transformation of leadership in the house from pelosi, hoyer, clyburn, to Hakeem Jeffries and aguilar and clark, those three obviously im still getting to know them, it was remarkable and quick. It was dems in array. But it was all Behind Closed Doors. I dont know what deals were cut. Obviously the same happened with the president ial contest in 2020. Thats a different story. But it was remarkably smooth, at least in public. This was coming for months. Yeah, the word youre seeking is discipline. I can feel you reaching for it. Its tough to say when associated with democrats. Thats why im having trouble with it. Kevin mccarthy, ex Speaker Mccarthy was exiting the house floor. Manu was chasing him. He walked past the statue of will rogers oklahoma put up, and will rogers famously said im not a member of any organized political party, im a democrat. Nancy pelosi used to say this every evening, she used to say our diversity is our strength, our unity is our superpower. She had the same slim majority as Kevin Mccarthy and passed the covid act and the chip back and the bipartisan infrastructure plan and help for veterans and health care. Let me go to manu raju on capitol hill. Who is the next speaker going to be, in the meantime we lose all the floor time to get the Appropriations Bills passed, to get whats good for the nation. Its the first time in history this has ever happened, so its a very historic day, but a sad day for america. How does it reflect on the majority, do you think . All right, that was the chair of the House Foreign Affairs committee, mike mccall, a republican from texas. Anderson, throwing it to you. Jake, thanks very much. Do we still have manu to go to . Manu, lets check in with you and talk about what you just heard from Congressman Mccaul. Reporter yeah, i just talked to you may have caught it, i talked to Congressman Mccaul and hes reflecting what a lot of republican members are saying, the ones who are aligning themselves with Kevin Mccarthy, which is a vast majority of this House Republican conference, theyre saying its a sad day, it shows that they cannot govern, its something that people are concerned about, that reflects poorly on them as they try to keep their house majority. Ive heard from a number of vulnerable republicans worried about what this may mean for their seats. Theres a finite amount of time for them to get their ledge slave agenda through, little time to avoid the next potential Government Shutdown by the middle of november. Nothing can happen. There were supposed to be votes tonight on other issues. They cant even vote on those issues because there is no speaker of the house. They need to elect a speaker of the house. That is one of the next order of business here. Thats why they will be meeting Behind Closed Doors in just about an hour or so and the house gop, to try to pick up the pieces, and figure out whether or not Kevin Mccarthy himself is running for speaker. That is still an unknown theres no answer to that question at this moment, what will Kevin Mccarthy do. That is significant, because if he runs, he will have a sizable amount of republicans. Hell probably have more than 200 republicans voting for him to become speaker. But he will not have 218 republicans. That is the magic number. Who can get 218 republican votes . At the moment, nobody. Especially if mccarthy runs again. So many questions about what is next. Mccarthy is not answering questions. Hes meeting with his advisers, close allies in his office at the moment. Well see if he makes himself a candidate for speaker, if hes ready to fight it out. But a lot of these members just dont want to give matt gaetz a scalp. They dont want to give him a victory. They are furious at gaetz. They believe he has thrown this institution into disarray, and the last thing they want to do is give him a victory. But that can only mean if mccarthy runs, things will be bogged down and paralyzed for some time. So the republicans could be meeting tonight, this evening. Could you just talk about what you are hearing from democrats about the democrats decision not to throw a lifeline to Kevin Mccarthy . Reporter yeah, this was an interesting moment, because we have been reporting up until today about the deliberations that were happening behind the scenes. Democrats were keeping their powder dry and didnt know exactly what to do. They were weighing whether or not to get concessions, try to broker some sort of agreement with Kevin Mccarthy, perhaps that they could get more power in this chamber as the Minority Party virtually has no power. They weighed all these different options. But at the end of the day, when they went Behind Closed Doors this morning, one democrat after another, it was absolutely clear, they had no interest in saving mccarthy. They were angry at the way he handled a host of issues and the way he has attacked them, even over the last effort to try to keep the government open. At the end of the day, many of them said to me theres no way they could have voted to save Kevin Mccarthy. As a result, a Leadership Crisis in the house. Lots of questions about whats next. Was it comments that Mccarthy Made On Television Over the weekend, on sunday in particular, about blaming democrats that particularly was sort of the final straw . Reporter that was one big reason why. They did play that interview that mccarthy had on Face The Nation on sunday. That set the tone for a meeting in which members railed on a whole bunch of grievances that they had. Some members, including zoe lofgren told me she was angry he didnt testify before the committee in the last congress. Whats clear is mccarthy did not have deepseeded relationships with a lot of democratic members. He was in a positive relationship with Hakeem Jeffries, but not with the rankandfile members. And mccarthy, of course, going after many of those vulnerable democrats, raising a ton of money, targeting them in their races. Theres no love lost. Perhaps one reason why they voted to oust him. Lauren, you just spoke to one of the eight republicans who voted against Kevin Mccarthy today. What did you hear . Reporter what youre hearing from many of these republicans is theyre relieved that mccarthy is gone, and yet theres no clear alternative of who is going to take the helm of the Republican Party in the House Of Representatives. I just got done speaking with representative matt rosendale, and he also went off saying that whoever takes the job next has to take the demands of conservatives more seriously. Here he was. If you guys dont take anything else away from this, what i would like you to take away from it is, im tired of being lectured by people that have been here for decades, okay, and have put us in 33 trillion in debt, and theyre going to tell me how to do my job. I think we need to try to do things a different way. Reporter of course, the question is who is going to take the job next . And we also pushed representative matt gaetz on that. Its interesting, when i asked rosendale who do you think should get the gavel next, he said, well, the king was just ousted at this point, so its open consideration right now. Basically they believe, these hardliners believe that because no one is in the job, more people might be willing to come forward. Of course, the looming question, does mccarthy try again to get back the gavel. If he does, what does that mean for alternatives like Steve Scalise or others who some conservatives have cited by name they think would be better at this job, anderson. Lauren fox, appreciate it. For republicans, if there are republicans who want to actually get things done, and there are many republicans, obviously, who want that both in the country and in congress, how does this get fixed . You cant have this install Group Holding everybody hostage. Its a shameful day for republicans, and frankly, this should have been able to be worked out in a house conference. Tonight thats what were going to see. Ive been in many conference meetings and basically it looks similar to the house floor. Its a lot of arguing, giving speeches. I am hearing from republicans that there is growing sentiment about trying to actually remove matt gaetz from the house conference, which they can do. What would that actually mean . It essentially means he cant serve on committees. I believe he still maintains his vote. He would lose committee representation. But i think Kevin Mccarthy may still try to pull this through. What made him speaker, one of the biggest things, was his massive political fundraising. He raises more than anyone else in the house. He has helped some moderates stay in the house and win the majority, the speakers got over a 50person staff. This is a huge team that is going to be encouraging him, stay and fight. Allies are saying, if you step aside youre letting matt gaetz win and empowering that. I can see this dragging out for some time. I was thinking, to your question about exactly the same thing, the reason that this is an impasse is because the people who forced mccarthy out dont really care whether or not anything happens in the house. Right. If you are among the people who do care, then youre more willing to make concessions because its important to you whether Business In The House moves forward. Under those circumstances, its hard for me to see how the moderates win out here. Even the folks who are the sort of only Mccarthy Group in the house, theyre in a tough spot. Because they are not going to be willing to do this forever. That is what frankly matt gaetz is banking on. To me, that is one of the questions. There are those only mccarthy folks who are so angry with gaetz and want to make sure that he doesnt win. What do they do now . How do they extract concessions . Frankly, im not saying theres a great way for them to do it, but you get the feel building you talk to some of them, they are so angry, they do not want to see the arsonists win out in this situation. And i think its important to put some of this in a historical context. Looking at sort of the history of conservatives in the Republican Party, theres nothing inherently wrong with having disagreements inside the party. The Republican Party has historically really leaned into intellectual diversity, lots of wings of the party, a big tent. But what is not happening today is a fight over ideas and principles. Theyre fighting over destruction. How to destroy it and who can destroy it and how quickly can we destroy it . Its theater. Weve been historically, a Republican Party, from a big tent to sort of a goat rodeo. The chaos and destruction is the point. The principles, the ideas, matter almost not at all. Innocent, there may be Something Else afoot. The bizarre may not be closed. Meaning, Kevin Mccarthy could run again and now he could be ready to do a deal with democrats that he was not willing to do before. And so i am hearing from some folks on the hill that democrats may now be willing to see if Kevin Mccarthy is ready to talk a little more in a way that he wasnt willing to talk a couple of days ago. Well, i just got another quote in from a democratic congressman who said, had kevin even bothered to attempt to work with us at any point this year, today probably wouldnt have happened. Instead he spent this whole year bending over backwards to try to appease the crazies and today is the natural end result of that. What would democrats look for . Democrats in the house, what would they look for . Anything. You could change the formula on committees and bring more democrats up. Give Minority Rights and allow the minority to be able to have more say in legislation, what get on this the calendar or not. All kinds of things that could happen. The question is whether or not mccarthy is willing now to come to the table with democrats and have a real discussion that he wasnt willing to have. Its a math problem. He will lose some republicans. Probably more than he would like to. If he does that . Yeah, thats inevitable. But how many can democrats bring over if they win some of those concessions . It could be a couple dozen, which might be enough. I want to bring in cnns Melanie Zanona on capitol hill. New reporting about the frustration there on capitol hill among republicans . Reporter the frustration, the fallout, and the fury inside the House Republican conference. I am told that republicans on the bipartisan problem solvers caucus, a bipartisan group, are considering quitting the group en masse, according to one of my sources, because theyre frustrated with their democratic colleagues who are in that group, the centrist members who opted to vote to remove Kevin Mccarthy. In the hours leading up to the vote, republicans on that group were desperately trying to get their democratic colleagues to come to their side, to step in and bail out mccarthy. Some centrist democrats had been considering it, toying with the idea. They ultimately did not. But this is just one of many examples of how this decision to remove mccarthy is now reverberated on capitol hill. Don bacon, another republican, also told my colleague, annie grayer, he wants to expel matt gaetz. You get a sense how frustrated republicans are right now and what theyre trying do company in the aftermath of this historic vote. Im thinking of the 18 republicans who won in districts that joe biden carried. People like mike lawler in the suburbs of new york, who this puts them in a very tough place. As theyre trying to navigate their reelection bids. Theyre saying, i serve in a house that cant even function, by cant get our own leadership elected, much less pass bills and deliver for our constituents. This is what is chaotic about the gaetz approach is its a problem without any sort of a solution at hand. He is going to jeopardize the republican majority in these efforts that hes got under way. And i dont know that theres any quick fix coming in terms of, if it is someone line a Steve Scalise that steps in, its only a matter of time before they use the same mechanism. Can any speaker last with a system that they agreed to, where it takes a few people to bring them down . It was never meant to be. A jeffersonianera tool, it was never supposed to be lowered to this threshold, for this precise reason, it could drive the house to a screeching halt. Heres the thing. I think when you listen to matt gaetz, as we love all afternoon unfortunately. What he is saying about the process of the house being broken is not wrong. I mean, the house and congress has not actually been doing their jobs, passing budgets, so on and so forth. Heres the problem. The problem is that he only wants a budget that meets his needs. And that is not how congress works. Its a bipartisan system. The senate is run by the democrats right now, the house is run by republicans. There has to be a scenario in which some speaker can come to an agreement that is fundamentally bipartisan. He will never be on board with that. That is why all of the talk about process is only one part of the picture. Fundamentally underneath the process are demands that are on the far right of even the Republican Party. And really are going nowhere in this congress. The hardest thing for anybody in congress is to be a moderate, really . Oh, yeah, its a very lonely place. Its hard in life as well. Trust me. But i think this is why matt gaetz has worked so hard to Paint Mccarthy as basically one of the dems now. Because this is the project. Again, identifying heretics. Calling out the disloyalty. Its so much more important to people like matt gaetz and donald trump to weed out the disloyals in the Republican Party than it is to actually pick fights on policy with democrats. We are following Breaking News out of new york. A judge has issued a partial gag order in Donald Trumps fraud case. Kara scannell is outside the courthouse in new york. Reporter anderson, after the lunch break, the judge said he was issuing a gag order in this case. That came after donald trump had issued a post this morning linking the judges clerk to Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer without any evidence. In that post, he also emailed it to a lot of his big distribution lists. The judge saying that he was imposing a gag order on all parties, saying none of them could make any public statements about any of his staff. And he said that if they violate this order, there would be serious sanctions. And that could include anything from financial penalties to even potentially jail. So the judge drawing a fine line here, trying to cut down on some of the rhetoric that trump has made, particularly targeting his clerk, who is a constant presence beside him, who is very active with the judge. He didnt extend that to the judge or the other parties, and trump today was out making statements against attorney general Letitia James whos brought this case. He made comments about her walking into the courthouse, continuing the refrain that this was a witch hunt, criticizing this investigation and this litigation. So just to be clear, if the former president violates this gag order, and who knows if he will, what happens . Obviously its up to the judge. But is there any scenario in which the judge would actually jail the former president . Reporter that would be a huge step. I think it would have to be something really extreme that trump would have to do in order to trigger Something Like that. But the judge said, he warned the parties yesterday about the rhetoric, about what they were saying, and then today, because trump had made comments about his clerk as he was walking into the courtroom yesterday, was caught on camera. Then trump doubled down today, making these statements on his platform, which has millions of followers. His truth social posts, then also an email distribution list. Making unfounded claims about his clerk. And that is what tipped the judge to saying, okay, now there is a gag order, if anyone violates this, it will be serious. That was his word, serious sanctions. He didnt describe what that would be but first step is usually financial. It would be a big leap to jail him, particularly given his position. This is not an uncommon terrain for the former president. He has had other judges warn him about his rhetoric, about statements hes making about people in the case. Kara scannell outside the courthouse, appreciate it. Wolf blitzer and erin