Its not a lock, i know a lock. So how can we undo the damage . We could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. Their connection is unreal. And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. Started today, accustoming. Com. Ive had to go montgomery and tokyo and this is cnn cnn Breaking News welcome to cnns breaking News Coverage of the historic donald trump Hush Money Trial. Im wolf blitzer in washington and Boris Sanchez is outside the courthouse in manhattan im this de of the trial, the first witness his nearing the end of his testimony, David Pecker Is Facing Redirect by the prosecution after several hours of cross by trumps Defense Attorney. Much of that cross detailed the former Tabloid Executives history of Purchasing Stories so that he could bury them boris and right now, wolff, the court is taking a break for lunch. The judge instructing the jury, as he always does, to not discuss the case outside of the courtroom de as the first witness testimony, as you said, well, if nearing the end, the defense trying to highlight a discrepancies and david peckers testimony, they included what was said during a 2017 white house meeting between donald trump and the former publisher of the National Enquirer. You saw that image there of pecker at the white house. We have seen in chief Legal Affairs correspondent paul read with us paulas so far, the center of peckers testimony has been his personal relationship with donald trump. Yeah. The question of whether he used that personal relationship to suppress stories to help check get elected. The reason prosecutors chose david pecker as the first witness doesnt really speak to the accusations at the heart of the criminal charges here, but it sets the stage for the idea that there was a concern sorted effort that Michael Cohen and then candidate trump were involved in. Do you suppress negative stories . Is david pecker Works Question about that by prosecutors, then Trump Lawyers got got to crack at him a little bit yesterday, and then mostly today and they had a few goals. What are the primary one though, was to establish that this wasnt Something Special that they did just to help trump get the white house in 20 16, that this was business as usual, that they suppress stories for Arnold Schwarzenegger and more walbergs. That was a big focus of their, of their crossexamination. The prosecutor is europe now, theyre trying to do a look little bit of repair. Theyre pointing out that. Okay. You did this for other people, but did you pay 150,000 for an Arnold Schwarzenegger story the same way you paid Karen Mcdougal to suppress her story about an alleged affair, well, no, we didnt so theyre trying to repair some with the damage to the case that may or may not have been done when the defense was asking david pecker questions, lets walk through some of those inconsistencies that we mentioned a moment ago. Theres a moment where they basically asked david pecker if his memory was okay, right . Yeah. Because there has been details here and there that he has not gotten exactly right. But were also talking about meetings, things that happened over a decade ago so that that is certainly something that you want to do with the defense to plant the seeds of maybe doubt about some of the things that he said. But then there were more significant issues that they had to resolve in terms of things that he said during an fbi interview and how that was different than what he said on the stand and explaining that out lets talk about the Defense Teams questioning of pecker regarding his agreement with the fec because we got really into the weeds of you. Were watching earlier you saw we get really into the weeds about the details of disagreement. What was the defense trying to do . Do their by bringing that up. So this has come up a few times that ami, the company that owned the National Enquirer and david pecker had what is called a nonProsecution Agreement with the justice department, where they effectively admitted that they they committed Campaign Finance violations by paying, for example, Karen Mcdougal, 150,000 to suppress her story. And theres a little bit of a semantic game. Well you werent exactly charged, but you did admitted. So the district attorney, assuming the Defense Attorneys, were trying to establish that pecker was doing this only because they argue that he was under business pressure. There were Business Transactions that had to go through and that he had to get the fbi investigation out of the way before he could do that they were trying to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the jurors about why ami and david pecker would have said something was a Campaign Finance violations but when they had a chance to go back and im prosecutor theres revisited that and had him confirm that. Yes. You did admit that this was a Campaign Finance violations and oh, by the way, you even consulted lawyers who you didnt give the full story too. About whether this was a Campaign Finance violations because you knew something may not be in the up and up. They asked him even if at one point he fronted 150,000 for Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to compare that seen a celebrity where do you trying to catch and kill the story through the National Enquirer to former President Donald Trump and the heat of the 2016 campaign. Zooming out paula. The next witness will be okay. So this is a Big Reporting Project because right now, we dont know and that drives us crazy as reporters, this courthouse is crawling with the reporters and cameras. And so far we havent we havent seen a glimpse of anyone. We dont know. Theyre not sharing who the next witnesses. But if youre looking at the timeline and the way the prosecutors are presenting their case. There are some possibilities. One, you could call Karen Mcdougal if you wanted to it seems unlikely for a lot of reasons that they will even need to do that. Shes doesnt really shes not relevant to the heart of the charges which are about money paid to Stormy Daniels. You could also call kellyanne conway. She was of course, ahead of the Trump Campaign at that time and the reason Hur Testimony would be significant is to talk about the access Hollywood Tape when it came out very close to the election, the impact it had on the campaign, the pressure they were under a particularly when it came to stories about trumps sex life. The incentive to me let me suppress those. That would be relevant to setting up the Stormy Daniels payments. So shes a possible witness. They could call next whole picks, also a possibility, again, intimately involved with the case campaign and involved in conversations with Michael Cohen and david pecker about these Hush Money Payments. So we havent gotten to the real heart of the case yet, but as they walk through and set it up these are two possibilities. They could also call someone that none of us have ever heard of to talk about paperwork because at the end of the day, weve got sex, so weve got politics, but really boris, this is paperwork case notable that the prosecution hasnt shared their plans for witnesses with the defense, in part because theyre afraid that the former president is going to start posting on social media about them. Were still waiting for a decision on it. The gag order is still a lot more to discuss. Paula. Thanks for bringing that down for us. Well send it back to morris. Were going to have a busy afternoon. Theres no doubt about that. At the same time, some brand new cnn polling and its showing us how americans view the ongoing Hush Money Trial and various other legal cases involving the former President Donald Trump so you now have political director David Chaldean is joining us right now. Hes over at the magic wall. David, what voters think of the treatment of trump in his Hush Money Trial, and how do they see his behavior . Yeah well, if we are getting a little insight into how americans are perceiving whats going on in manhattan. First of all, take a look at this. We asked voters in our brand new poll by ssrs, how does trump being treated in the new york Hush Money Trial . About a third, 34 say hes be more leniently than others would be about rafah play the same here, 34 say hes being treated more harshly than others. It doesnt that in american politics right now. This is interesting, only 13 say that he is being treated like any other criminal defendant not Many Americans believe he is being treated that way. You asked about his behavior you know, this is the subject of the whole issue of the gag order and whether or not Donald Trumps have been violating it. And obviously, judge merchan is yet to rule on that. 42 of americans and our poll will say Donald Trumps behavior during this Hush Money Trial thus far as inappropriate. Thats the plurality. 25 say appropriate, 32 , no opinion on that. Wolff very interesting numbers indeed are david standby. Well get back to you, but let me ask you one quick question before i let you go. How confident are voters that trump will receive a fair trial . Yeah so we did ask, are you confident that hell receive a fair verdict . Can he get a fair verdict in this 7 very confident, 36 , somewhat competent, but clearly you see that the majority, 33 , not too confident, 23 not confident at all 56 , if you fed that up, the majority do not have confidence in whether or not he will get a fair trial. And by the way, this hushmoney trial, 28 of americans say, if indeed these charges are true, its disqualify them from the presidency. 28 say cast doubts, but not disqualifying, but 45 wolf. And this is now something weve seen on the rise, say, even if these charges are true, its not relevant to his fitness for office very interesting numbers indeed. What else jumps out to you from these new poll numbers that were getting well, i would just say, here, we ask if indeed trump is convicted of a crime of any crime, not just in this hushmoney trial would you still support him . So we ask this of Trump Supporters, 76 , three quarters of Trump Supporters in this poll, there sticking with them, even if hes a convicted criminal 2010 of trumps supporters in this poll, say, if hes convicted, both, they might reconsider, but i want to show you the difference. In these Trump Supporters, those that might reconsider versus those that are with them no matter what, those that are with them, no matter what thats the trump base as you know, it to be those that might reconsider that 24 . Theyre younger. Half of them are people of color two thirds of them say joe biden legitimately won the 2020 election. Theyre moderates their independence. These are the softer trumps supporters. These are exactly kinds of voters joe bidens looking to strengthen his support with as part of his coalition. And theyre the ones that say if he convicted, they might reconsider their support very interesting number of significant numbers, indeed, David Xiaolei, thank you very, very much. Just ahead will have much more of our Show Coverage of the historic Hush Money Trial of donald trump. Thats coming up. Stay with us the sinking of the titanic, how would really happen, especially to our premier sunday at nine on cnn, somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right past. He didnt know they were talking to her. 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Know vdo not Flossing Well, then add the wo of listerine to your routine new Science Shows listerine is five times more effective than plus ev reducing plaque above the gum line for a cleaner, healthier mouth this three, feel the whoa, im Caitlin Polantz at the fedal court in washington, and this is cnn were following the latest in the criminal Hush Money Trial former President Donald Trump and in the next hour testimony is set to resume from former Tabloid Executive david pecker. Thats coming up at roughly 2 15 p. M. So you want to stay tuned for that. But right now, we want to go to cnn Kara Scannell, who was in court for this mornings crossexaminati on, and then the reader, rep. Examination. Qarrah, take us through what you saw so trumps attorneys started their recross or their crossexamination today, continuing the theme that they had yesterday, trying to say that a lot of what david pecker and the National Enquirer was doing think was the seat put at Standard Operating Procedure . We went through a number of the News Articles that the enquirer had published of trumps political opponents, ben carson, marco rubio pecker agreed that they would have run these stories, even if he didnt have that deal with the former president that was struck in august 2015 at trump tower to kachin hill. Any negative stories, as well as to publish negative stories about his political opponents. He also tried to catch david pecker in some inconsistencies in here his testimony, david pecker has been cooperating with prosecutors, the federal prosecutors and the District Attorneys Office for several years now. And so they were focusing on remember, the testimony about a january 2017 meeting at trump tower that david pecker walked into all donald trump was finishing up a meeting with some of with the f then cia director james comey and others and during this meeting is when david pecker testified that there was that he had a conversation so what donald trump donald trump thanked him for taking care of the doormans story in the Karen Mcdougal story so Donald Trumps attorneys pressed him on notes from previous interview had given with investigators. And in that interview notes he said, according to the fbis nodes, that david pecker told them that donald trump did not express any gratitude david pecker dug in on that today saying that the fbi knows were wrong and that his testimony over the past few days is that correct accurate testimony . So a lot of back and forth over different inconsistencies in certain agreements and trying to get david pecker office feet and we did see during the testimony of crossexamine the nation, david pecker, some of his answers were very quiet. One answer was so quiet, it was barely audible in the courtroom when the prosecutors began their redirected him to try to address some of the issues that the crossexamination raise. David pecker began to grow more confident again, he was again turning to look toward the jury as he was answering those questions and problems scooters focus on the redirect. Was that david pecker would not have done some of these things, but for the deal, he would not have entered into the agreement to pay 150 1,000 to Karen Mcdougal without the understanding that donald trump would have reimbursed him for it, he would not have ever allowed any buddy on behalf of the candidate to get involved with amending some of these catch and kill deals. So whos trying to reset the table with david pecker there . That is expected to continue after the lunch break. Prosecutor said they have but about less than a half an hour, more questions. Trumps attorneys said he will have a few more on crossexamination, and then well move on to the next witness in this case, which theyve not publicly said who that is yet. For us Kara Scannell live outside the courthouse. Thank you so much. We want to go back to wolf blitzer in the Nations Capital wolf. All right, boris, thank you. I want to turn to my panel hello. Elie honig. Let me start with you. Explain what the prosecution aims to do in this redirect so the goal of redirect is to try to minimize or undo any damage done in the crossexamination and just to give like a little visual representation, each of these has to get narrower and narrower. Your direct exam is here, your crossexamine has to be within and usually narrower then the direct exam, then youre redirect has to be narrower then within the cross exam and so on down the line. I think the main points that prosecutors are trying to reinforce here as we head into redirect, our first of all, this was an intentional organized operation. It was ami National Enquirer, david pecker, working handinhand with Michael Cohen and donald trump. And the campaign in order to buy these stories, in order to protect Donald Trumps campaign prospects. Thats the bottom line that theyre trying to get back at. Interesting elly, Elliot Williams is with us as well before this redirect elliott, what did you make of the defenses crossexamination . I think the defense did what they had to do. The point and of cross is the score is a score as many points as possible against the witness. And the main things here in the absence of a major bombshell that they could extract are number one attack the witnesses credibility. Do you remember these things that you said you did and they pointed to a few instances where a statement hed made didnt quite match a document and they made those again, the case wont Rise And Fall on them, but they can dirty up the witness a little bit. Also, a big thing they focused on were these catch and kill, or at least dirt at least articles, schemes that involve individuals other than politicians making the case that well, not just donald trump, but Arnold Schwarzenegger or Mark Wahlberg also were parties two arrangements if ami, in which we engage in the same conduct you are accusing us of having committed a crime and doing so muddy the waters as to whether these payments were made to a campaign. Theyre made for all sorts of purposes and thats what theyre saying of course, was having a run for governor of california. So did not call him a politician at that moment. I think it very much was in the ether that agreement as part of a potential candidates, its not as good thats not as good. An example for them as Marquee Mark Wiles is that the that what trumps attorneys theyre saying is that this was Standard Operating Procedure. This is this is what you did at the enquirer. And what steinglass is saying is yes, the question, do you normally pay people 150,000 and they paid Karen Mcdougal and the answer was no, we dont normally do that, so it wasnt Standard Operating Procedure and i think they were they were trying to make that point that this was different. This was hatched differently. This was intended to help a president ial campaign and it cost money, bigger money than they were used to paying people trumps attorneys have made a point of trying to argue to the jury, this is all just a big sleazy business. And why does this become criminal . And the fact that it was done other times and consistently through many years is helpful on the margins, but helpful to Donald Trumps team. Because then lets imagine the counterfactual. What if they never did this for anybody until donald trump came along and then they said, okay, were going to do this thing. Were going to pay people for their stories. Were going to put out harmful sores that would be a lot more sinister and a lot easier for the jury to understand why does this cross the line . But glory, youre exactly right. Thats, thats the line that prosecutors are trying to define. Different level a different level, but we also know that some of the final questions but that just got asked a few moments ago. Where do you remember an instance in which number one, someone was paid 150,000 for this type of skimming. He said, no after meeting with donald trump, did you have more of an interest in helping the campaign . Yes. And thats sort of where the prosecution sort of ended, but through land ms brown david chelly, and a bunch of reporters who were in the courtroom are suggesting today that Trumps Energy seems to have been a lot lower today than its been sitting back with his eyes closed for a lot of the testimony that was going on what does that how do you read that i mean, i think its gotta be pretty grueling to be confined to your chair. Sitting there day in and day out, in quartered. Its not a stimulating environment for him, so i can understand why he may be tiring of this process that may explain some of his lower energy. I think we have to be careful about reading too much into this kind of description because yesterday i thought was a perfect example. We saw him in the morning. He was very energetic in his comments and taking on joe biden after the long day of court, he was a little lowerenergy as i think many people would be at the end of a long day, i dont know that theres something we can take away from that wolff and say, oh, this is clearly killing them in some way. No, but do i think sitting in that courtroom and again, so differently for donald trump than Everything Else in his life. This is a man who is dictates his own schedule, is ensconced in this special place of security in a bubble and billionaires and millionaires, this is not somebody who is inclined to have to just be told to sit still in a courtroom with all regular folk nonstop other people realize how boring court is the air is stale. Its a room in which you cant get up and walk around. Very calm. Its what the temperature may not be regulated in a way thats comfortable for everybody, but its not. In particular this sort of bombing in fire of the vanities 1980s courtroom is not does not come with the trappings of a modern environment. It can be very hard to sit in that environment, particularly if youre not the person whos arguing her speaking . No control over it he cant he cant control the thermostat, even he cant control what the judge is going to do he cant control whats going on on the Witness Stand he can talk to his lawyers so you can pass some notes. He cant even look at his phone, which i think is very difficult for him. So hes used to being as david was saying, is used to being in control of everything thing and every moment of his day. And he is not in control in that courtroom. It seems somebody has had a heart to heart with donald trump, but that he is an Court Conduct because his outofCourt Conduct has been abominable he has i believe violated the gag order many times over i think will potentially see such a ruling from the judge sue, but all of his conduct incur is exactly what virtually every criminal defendant does. Sometimes you whisper to your attorney, you pass notes, you look at some witnesses. Sometimes theres eye contact, some theres not if i was his lawyer, i would have tried to stress to him this is all about selfpreservation. That jury is looking at you. If you offend that jury, you are going to harm your chances of surviving this trial. If that jury feels like youre being respectful, youre going to marginally, but youre going to increase your chances of getting a good verdict. It seems were weekend, so well see how long this can all that, but it seems that message has gotten through with respect to his incourt in front of the jury behavior important caveat that were we get because thats how belching from what i saw ive reminded of all the times of teleprompter trump versus non teleprompter trump. And can he really change . Proves time and again that he doesnt really change. But i take your point. I mean, he is clearly heating some advice about how not to put his foot in his mouth in front of the jury when do you get to look at donald trump for hours on end . You never do. I mean, the reporters in that in that courtroom are not used to this either because you look at you look at donald trump in soundbites or in an interview or whatever, but you know, look at him four hours and thats whats going on in that courtroom. And so the journalists are looking for every twitch and saying, oh, is this, is this meaningful . But, but theyre not used to seeing me. 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Courts but is now in recess for a little bit longer Tabloid Executive david pecker will be back out of the stand in minutes, but before the break, they took a lunch break a little while ago prosecutors were trying to reestablish david pecker is credibility after the defense exposed some small inconsistencies in pecker statements, i want to bring in jury consultant, the president the decision analysis. Richard gabriel. Richard, thanks so much for joining us. There was a moment today. Where trump attorney emile bove Drill Down On David Pecker is 2018 interview with the fbi and some inconsistencies between notes from that interview and peckers current testimony emerged, how do inconsistencies like that way in a jury as they look at a case well, i think its more about how the jury already has viewed the witness, where they feel that hes been authentic and sincere and straightforward with them. If they feel that hes been kind of a little bit shady and some of his answers, even on the direct testimony, they dont particularly like him, then they can see those inconsistencies as really key to credibility problems. But a lot of times we do focus on minor points and whether that really does it and sometimes its a Forest For The Trees type of issue. Jury is really looking at, well, what is this really say . Is this really a bad conduct . Tier . What is really say about the witness, these small inconsistencies tend to not have that gradient impact unless theres a big blow to the witnesses credibility. So im not sure its going to have a tremendous effect at this point. Yeah, interesting. Many of the key points that offense is trying to make are very, very nuanced. Shall we say . Does that offense run the risk of making an argument too complicated for a jury there is that definition the problem here is that its trying to establish what is thinning. The credibility is one thing, but i think one of the things they are trying to establish here is just again, trying to normalize the behavior so as opposed to saying hes not necessarily credible, theyre saying, look, this is something and its one of the primary arguments that the trump team i think is making in the case which is this is just politics. This is not necessarily a criminal conduct, and i think hes hoping to reach some of the jurors on here. This is why Jury Selection can be so important. Youve got two lawyers to engineers, people in wealth management, and whether theyre going to interpret this testimony to really say, okay, is this actually illegal versus just politics as usual trumps attorney at one point, i thought this was interesting also apologize to david pecker over confusion in the questioning of whether hope hicks, former trump by aid, had come up in an interview with the fbi from your experience, does a Defense Attorney apologizing to a witness have any sway on jurors . Typically, no. I mean, it depends how how big it is. I mean, you know, it really has to do with how hard theyre going it doesnt sound like theyre going after him very hard on this. And so its its sort of this convivial type of thing. Theres always this sort of delicate balance because the attorney can lose credibility also, if they go too hard after the witness because then it highlights their testimony to a certain extent. I think they want to make a few points and then get this witness off the stand hoping to make stronger points on credibility with Michael Cohen and some of the other witnesses does the mood change . Richard in a courtroom when the defense gets the crossexamine, a prosecutors witness well yes. I mean what the defense is, always hopes is that they can take over the case at that point, because obviously the prosecutors control the evidence in the flow of the facts at that point. And so it is an opportunity for the Defense Attorneys to sort of try to take back control, try to reestablish some other themes, tried to impugn the credibility of the witness, tried to score a few points, but ultimately, its they have to make a Judgment Call in terms of how strongly do you then want to highlight the witnesss testimony . Because the more time and energy you put into crossexamining that witness also so it can tend to highlight some of those things or the witness can do very well. And so its a Judgment Call for a lot of attorneys. Do i stand or do i get out and cut my losses . Are team in the courtroom, richard, theyve been paying very close attention to the jurors, the 12 jurors, who they say have been following with their eyes the backandforth between the trump attorney and pecker, for example, what does that say to you about how intently the jury is paying attention to this case well we obviously they know its a pretty important case. So theyre very tuned in and this is the first witness on the stand so jurors attention is at its highest. And the first witness Opening Statements are critical because they sort of established the story that both sides are trying to tell. The, first witness sort of its kind of okay. How does the evidence going to support either the prosecutions case or the defenses case. So theyre tracking it very closely. Youve got very smart people on this jury who clearly want to pay attention. So i think obviously theyre very keen on trying to figure out what is this witness mean . If this goes on for weeks and weeks and weeks, you may see some of their Attention Wayne and also, i think both sides have to be careful because sometimes redundancy can tire a jury out and they can kind of go like kinda got the point here and they want to move on, even though the attorneys want to score that one little extra point, and theyre paying really, really close attention right now as they clearly should. Richard gabriel. Thanks so much for your expertise and just ahead will have much more of our special coverage of this historic hushmoney trial of donald trump a week unlike weve ever seen before, a court resumes in about 40 minutes much more of our special coverage right after this when the jinx came out, i thought, oh, my god when bob has a friend, he expects Blind Loyalty surprises of supply hi skin craving. 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Dave, lets be more than our allergies seize the day with zyrtec. So i can take all these trips because priceline has all these amazing deals and thats when i said deal on your right is our infinity deal. I am the deals deals thats 18088, 851177, called im Elizabeth Wagmeister in los angeles in this welcome back to cnn special life coverage of Donald Trumps historic first criminal trial. Any moment now, former Tabloid Executive, david pecker is set to return to the Witness Stand to continue his fourth day hey, of testimony earlier today, he underwent crossexamination by trumps defense team before Facing Redirect Questioning by prosecutors pecker has been on the stand for just under ten hours over the course of these four days, were joined now by john di and hes a cnn contributor, former white House Counsel in the nixon administration. He also cowrote the book, Authoritarian Nightmare Trump and his followers, john, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us so david pecker, nearly ten hours on the stand. What moments most stand out to you from his testimony well, i think hes a good witness from what ive read and ive read the transcript of the first couple of days. Hes an excellent witness when he doesnt know something, he admits it when something unpleasant probably rather not address. He openly addresses and so hes a hes going to be a very credible witness. And i think the redirect today cleaned up any any doubts in the jurys mind . Much of the testimony so far is effectively setting the table for the prosecutions argument, right . We havent heard much about Stormy Daniels and the arrangement that other former president had with her through Michael Cohen. How do you think this early stage of tests . Stem one will play into the Bigger Picture it, it really does as you said, set the table it what it does in legal terms it establishes the conspiracy and shows who the players were and how they operated within a conspiracy and the Stormy Daniels is just an ongoing part of this conspiracy that the prosecutors are now laying out and that has a lot of implications for evidence and for the way they proceed and i think the jury will get it as the pieces get filled in. Now from this broad outline that pecker has given through the prosecutors one of the Big Questions of course, is who who is set to testify after the testimony of david pecker wraps up the former president said yesterday that he would testify if its necessary. Jerry, do you think is Defense Attorneys are probably tun to talk him out of that i suspect they are. He is not a good witness. Hes the few times hes been on the stand and in depositions at some length, we can see is not a good witness so this is a little bravado for his base because there are obviously political implications of the great dimension for him in this trial and the others we also havent gotten a decision from judge Merchan On Whether Trump violated the gag order. The prosecution wants and held in Contempt Of Court for more than a dozen instances. And today say that he violated a gag order that would have prevented him from speaking out about which isnt the case about even staff in the courtroom. What do you make of the delay in a decision here . Does that create ambiguity or is it . In an indication that the judge wants to focus on the facts of the case and not necessarily the distractions that the defendant potentially is causing on social media well, of course, the prosecutors have filed additional violations of the gag order and they i think theyre trying to hope that the judge will be able to take this under deliberation. I think what the judge is trying to do is not distract from the progress of the trial with the Gag Order Issue he probably is measuring that the fact that the jury, if theyre following their instructions, or not becoming aware of trumps outofcourt statements and attacks on witnesses and the jury itself. But rather, they want judges want to move their cases along because juries do get tired and so thats i think his main focus. I frankly thank hes going to have to Say Something very soon because hes giving trump too much leash to just continue to violate without any sanction john dean, appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much for being with us thanks. Bars of course, stay with cnn because are special live coverage is set to continue right after this court expected to resume at 2 15, they would live from the Nations Capital one of the most unforgettable nights in dc. This rotor will read back here again, President Biden, and comedian Collin Joseph headline the white house Correspondents Dinner, live tomorrow at seven eastern on cnn ot Flossing Well, then add the wo of listerine to your routine. New Science Shows. Listerine is five times more effective than plus ev reducing plaque above the gum line for a cleaner, healthier math this street field, the whoa, maria and julio thought their life would never slow down then one day its finally you will made to find inner peace. We were made to track Flight Prices to paradise all new subway routes are packed with delicious ingredients in a pillar, we lavage route. Finally, or refreshing lunch to Taster Murphy for pro athletes like me, right . 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De are giant and what they do because they work in a place where they can were, they can learn the skills to build careers as powerful as the beast. They four, we build to because it c started today. Accustoming. Com how would really happen sunday at nine on cnn closed captioning is brought to you by sokoloff Law Mesothelial ma victims call now 30 billion in trust money has been set aside. You may be entitled to a portion of that money all when 8085920400. Thats when 8085920400 National Media headlines about you as january sakes insurrectionist. Now hes running for congress. What do you want people to know about you beyond that big headline, a lot of my family very much alumni community, i love my country and i think its despicable that the media and particularly cnn, has helped paint this false narrative of insurrection thats from the documentary. I miss in phonation with cnn corresponded Donie Osullivan, just about six months away from the president ial election right now the battle for facts is playing in social media feeds, churches, and even in the homes of so Many Americans dont. It looks at how Conspiracy Theories and online misinformation are tearing some americans apart and effecting potentially the upcoming president ial campaign. Lets discuss with Donie Osullivan these joining us right now. Donie, i know you spent a lot of time with the trump faithful. What did you learn hey, will fia at that clip, we just play there for you is derek evans. He is a he was convicted and serve three months in prison for his role in january 6, and he is now a primary republican primary candidates in West Virginia for the us house. We actually spoke to him on the threeyear anniversary of january 6, back back just a few months ago. And it was at a church in florida where he was speaking with the likes of Marjorie Taylor green. And this is what were seeing across the country is the use of christianity specifically, what is now known as Christian Nationalism and. This melding of Conspiracy Theories. I kind of warped sense of what it means to be an american and just seeing, seeing this all play out. So really what were trying to show in missing the phonation documentary thats airing on sunday really is just all the forces, the ideas that maybe we once thought were fringe. They are false. But theyre no longer fringe. I mean, i think about a third of americans, third of all americans. Dont believe that joe biden was legitimately elected president in 2020. And Something Like a quarter of americans believed that falsely that the fbi i staged or had a hand in the january 6 attack. So really what were trying to show here is that this stuff that is happening on the dark corners of the the international and podcasts and everywhere else. It really is affecting the american political mainstream the only are Conspiracy Theories growing about former president trumps court cases now look, i think that just plays it all a lot of the folks that were speaking to are very much the trump base, right . Theyre not going to deviate from that. Of course, we have polling that shows that some republicans might change their mind, none voting for trump if he is convicted. But for the folks we meet, events like this, these sort of christian nationalist events. I mean, its bizarre. Will friday, we were at a church down in florida where there was conspiracy popular conspiracy theorists, people who stream online all day spouting Conspiracy Theories and theyre up at the top of a church where normally one would be praying and theyre talking about Conspiracy Theories hes about 9 11 and Everything Else so when it comes to the trump trials, this really just for the people who believe this stuff, believed that trump is being being unfairly pursued. Donie osullivan, thanks so much for all your excellent reporting. Appreciate it very much to our viewers. Be sure to tune in to an all new episode of the whole story. With Anderson Cooper, one whole hour, one whole story. It air sunday, 8 00 p. M. Eastern am pacific only here on cnn and minutes from now, the former Tabloid Executive, david pecker, will be back on the Witness Stand. Prosecutors are set to resume redirect. Were going to bring you all the latest developments from inside the courtroom right after this riyad saves new album is breaking records gets to say what country is calm . The country fiance, uh, nashvilles renaissance streaming exclusively on macs back their Tech Allergy Relief works fast and lasts a full 24 hours. So dave can be deliverer dance okay. Dave, lets be more than our allergies seize the day. Their tech missing out on the things you love because of asthma get back to better breathing with the sandra, an addon for Eosinophilic Asthma that is taken once every eight weeks to sandra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions, allergic reactions may occur, dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor, tell your doctor if your asthma worsens headache and sore throat me occur. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, step back out there with his nra. Ask your doctor if its right for you skin craving. 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The prosecutions redirect has tried to illustrate that pecker entered into this unorthodox catch and kill deal with trump with the express goal of influencing the 2016 election. And trumps favor, wolf on the other side, during todays crossexamination, trumps attorney tried to trip up. Mr. Pecker by highlighting inconsistencies in his answers. Lets go to cnns Kara Scannell. She was in the courtroom for everything today. Kara, who so what did you see today . Well, if thats right and part of the theme of the crossexamination was trying to find some inconsistencies and david peckers testimony, one of the areas they focused on was his meeting in January Of 2017 at trump tower. And during that meeting, david pecker head testified that donald trump had thanked him for taking care of the doormans story and Karen Mcdougals allegations of an affair of david pecker has testified that the American Media had his company had bought those rights to those stories stopping them from becoming public. Now on crossexamination, trumps attorney was pressing pecker and saying, well, that was a mistake, wasnt in peckers voice grew faint. He said, no, it wasnt then trumps its attorney confronted him with notes that were taken at an fbi interview that pecker had given. And during that interview, the note said that trump had not expressed any gratitude. Will david pecker said those notes were wrong and that his testimony today was correct. Now, trumps lawyers also tried to use the moment to discredit Michael Cohen asking david pecker if he thought that Michael Cohen when was prone to exaggeration and david pecker testified that yes, he did believe so. They tried to follow up with another question. There was an objection by the prosecution and the judge sustained it. So they moved on then on redirect. The prosecution was trying to address some of these areas and some of the themes of the crossexamination, which was also that david pecker is company would have done this anyway because it was Standard Operating Procedure for a tabloid to buy stories and to kill some stories to write negative stories about politicals politicians, opponents. But then one of the final questions that he asked before the break, he asked david pecker if on that Karen Mcdougal story, he said to him, if you would have published that, that would have been National Enquirer gold because it would have sold through the roof and david pecker testified, yes, it would. Underlying the prosecutions theme that the reason why he was buying some of these deals and to bury them was to benefit donald trump and not his company that david pecker will be back on the stand prosecutor said he has about a half if an hour more of redirect he has for him, there will be a little bit of recross and then well get into the next witness. The second witness in this historic case. Well, im doing okay. Cara, who this second witness who will testify after pecker . The prosecution has not stated publicly who that witness will be. We did learn that they informed trumps attorney just before the break, there had been some tension between the two over getting a heads up about who the next witness would be because of concerns that donald trump might make social media posts about that witness this all of course object to that gag order. That is being challenged. And prosecutors say that trump has violated now at least 14 times, well well find out fairly soon. Kara scannell. Thank you very, very much. Boris, back to you lets expand the conversation now with cnn chief Legal Affairs correspondent paula reid and former Manhattan District Attorney prosecutor, karen friedman, agnifilo. Thank you both for being with us. We should note Karen Councils for a firm that represents Michael Cohen. She has no contact with cohen, does not work on his case, and there are no restrictions about what she can say about the case as well. Now that that is out of the way, polo, right before we took a break for lunch of the prosecutors were trying to time Michael Cohen to the Trump Campaign, help us understand why one point pecker testified that he didnt associate Michael Cohen with the Trump Campaign. Now, thats a statement that its sort of strains credulity because at the time, trump was running for the white house, cohen was his really consider clery, his personal attorney. Youd gone scream at you if you were doing a story, they didnt like me. Are there. They were they were completely in lockstep the idea that you can separate yourself from someone whos running from the white house. Again, its hard to believe, but the reason that was significant its because remember the core of this case is an allegation that this Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels was covered up because it was done to help trump win the white house. And thats part of the prosecutions case. So thats why prosecutors went back at this question and theyre like, hey, you testified when Defense Attorneys asked you questions and you didnt really associate cohen as being part of the campus . Payne thats why theyre focused on that because they just want to they want a button that up, that like of course, anything he was doing to help trump was part of an effort to win the white house. So karen, during the crossexamination of pecker, the defense was seemingly trying to do two things. They were trying to poke holes in his story or make the jury question his credibility or at least his memory at one point. And also they were trying to sort of normalize the process of these catch and kill stories, right . How well did they succeed . And i didnt think the redirect is going so far as the prosecution tries to fix that. Well crossexamination can do one of two things. Either youre going to go in and destroy the person. If you have the goods great, if you have a way to really destroy them in and destroy their credibility, thats what you do. Because you want to get some reasonable doubt in there. Well, either they dont have that on david pecker or are they made some kind of calculus not to do that because maybe he has something on donald trump, who knows what they decided to do instead was really embraced him and use him to advance their theory, their theory is very much that this was normal. This was not campaign related. This is your business model. This is what you did all the time and thats a really effective technique because theyre not attacking the prosecutions witnesses. Theyre using them to advance their story so they dont dont have to necessarily call their own witnesses, right . Theyre putting on a defense through the prosecution. And so i thought they did an effective job at that at really starting to give make four put forward their defense. Now, Josh Steinglass is going to do and has been doing on redirect and continue to do is remind people know this was different yeah, you did catch and kill, but you never paid 150,000 before, like you did Karen Mcdougal, that was unusual you consulted an Election Lawyer because you what you were doing was dicey, unusual and you are concerned that that was in at this stage, and then youll see another recross so many details getting into the weeds of these financial dealings of david, an ami, a National Enquirer youre getting some guidance on the timing of this. It sounds like were going to see some redirect wrap up relatively quickly when we to get back. Yeah, they sent it over cord. This is a have a mu less than half an hour to do redirect. And then youre going to get some recross a little bit of that. So that translate to saying maybe about 45 minutes to an hour, more of a david packer and then that next mystery witness and i will say this entire court house is crawling with reporters were on the phone phone, were asking me the fact that we havent spotted anyone whos not all of the witnesses here are Household Names but many of them are. I mean, its just keeps us guessing who who is it going to be . How are you going to use this a little bit of time on a friday afternoon and to that question quickly, karen, if it is a friday afternoon, the jurors were looking at the clock, the judge might be looking at the clock as well, thinking of a weekend is almost here theyre theyre off on monday, right . Who could the prosecution called next that you think would be effective in that context so with the prosecutions analyzing and saying, okay, i dont want to put someone really significant on for an hour on a friday afternoon when theres no court for three days because first of all, at a minimum, the jury is going to forget anything they said, right. So youd have to start over for again after three days of being away from this stuff. And also you dont want to give the defense three days to get a preview of how therell be and ill get to prepare and comb through all the discovery and find every little thing. So youre going to try to if they can, if there is some throwaway witness that they can just put on the stand that doesnt matter one way or another while they all take the long weekend to prepare their more difficult witnesses. Thats what theyre going to be doing. And well see how they approach it. Karen, paula, thank you both so much. Appreciate it. Wolf will send it back to you whereas excellent discussion. Thank you. Were following more Breaking News right now in a brand new interview with howard stern, President Biden was asked whether he planned to debate his predecessor of the former president , donald trump. Listen to this his response, this is by i dont know if youre going to debate your opponent. I am somewhere i dont know where im happy lets bring in our white house correspondent, mj lee. Shes joining us right now and Alayna Treene is joining us with more on this as well. Mj, what more are you hearing from the Biden Administration and from the Biden Campaign for that matter on these comments from the president that hes ready to debate trump . Well, wolf, up until now, President Biden had never given a definitive answer to the question of whether he would be willing to debate donald trump. And in this lengthy interview with howard stern earlier today, he said he doesnt know when this will happen or where it will happen. But he said, quote, im happy to debate him as we just heard this comes, i should note on the heels of a dozen or so news organizations, including cnn, earlier this month, writing an open letter urging both donald trump and President Biden to participate in televised debates before novembers election day. Trump, of course, for his part, who skipped the republic welcome, primary debates has said recently that he is willing to debate President Biden anytime and anywhere. And i think its just worth pointing out, given the focus of some of our coverage today. In recent days, were out of moment where President Bidens white house and the campaign are trying to have to figure out route and confronting the reality of finding ways to really break through as there has been a lot of overwhelming focus on the trump trials, advisers, ive spoken to say that he is continuing to govern. He is continuing to campaign and that that is going to continue, but it is interesting that he decided to have this lengthy sit down with howard stern, who obviously has a very big audience. Yeah, it was very interesting indeed i want to go to alayna right now. Youve been covering the Trump Campaign for us, alaimo. Whats the reaction at least so far from this news that President Biden has announced his happy to go ahead and have a debate with trump before the election. Well, shortly after the interview, walf, one of Donald Trumps top advisers, chris lacivita, said, lets set it up and then moments ago, we heard from the former president directly. Currently theyre on a lunch break in his trial and he posted to truth social. Im going to read you part of that post. He said, quote, crooked joe biden, just denounce that hes willing to debate. Everyone knows he doesnt really mean it. But in case he does, i say in all caps anywhere anytime any place the post went on to say that he suggested monday evening, tuesday evening, or wednesday evening at my rally in michigan. And then later in the post, he said, in fact, lets do the debate at the courthouse house tonight on national television. All wait around. So well, if, as you can see, this has become a bit of a stick for donald trump and his team were told actually by some of the pool reporters at the courthouse in manhattan that another one of Donald Trumps top advisers, jason miller, had actually handed out printed copies of this truth social while theyre on this lunch break. So clearly theyre trying to get attention for this and part of that stick as well. Wolff has been many of Donald Trumps most recent rallies. Hes put up a podium onstage, which is supposed to symbolize an empty spot for biden where theyve really been criticizing joe biden for not willing to come out saas far and say, lets do this less. Lets debate now i also want to remind you that earlier this month, we did see a memo from two of Donald Trumps campaign manager, susie wiles and chris lacivita. They had called on the president ial commission on debates to host more and earlier debate. So this is really something that they have been pushing for. They think from my conversations with them that having donald trump and Joe Biden On Stage sidebyside would be a good contrast for their campaign was very interesting and de then were just told that trump is now back in the courtroom getting ready for the next round. I just weve seen walking back in this video for moments ago. Alayna treene and mj lee guys, thank you very, very much. And to our viewers, dont go anywhere. Court is about to resume are special live coverage will continue right after this the sinking of the titanic, how would really happen, especially to our premier sunday at nine on cnn . Kinda riva support your brain health married janet. Hey eddie. 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And when we get more of them back, we can use less new plastic bottles are made itd be remade with fast sides, create factory great visual solutions to perfect your process that sides make your statement. This homestyle Chicken Salad rat from subway this is how you do it. Savory chicken. Chris veggies all wrapped up. These maps are amazing. People can hear my thoughts thats a problem. Stay fresh out there. All new reps from subway hi, im Roger On Capitol Hill in this is cnn youre watching Cnn Special Live Coverage of Donald Trumps first criminal trial were told the jury has now reentered the courtroom. The former president , this team are also backing in court after a lunch break, and we may soon learn who will be the second witness called in his truly historic trial. Prosecutors will finish. First of all questioning. David pecker, the former publisher of the National Enquirer, who testified that it killed off stories to help president ial candidate donald trump i want to bring back my panel right now. Im laura coates is joining us right now. Laura whats your main takeaways so far of what weve seen, the testimony so far today. Well, whats important, youre talking about a witness like this. Its your lead off witness kind of like your lead off hit or you want to make sure that youre going to maintain their credibility throughout. And this is all the course of several days now since monday, weve been hearing from david pecker get a couple of days off. But if youre the prosecution, you want to make sure the credibility is intact, that they are a part of a Jigsaw Puzzle that this witness cant get you. Everything, but certain parts of it. The catch and kill scheme and not try to have the crossexamination undermine any of that. So far theyve tried to lance and pungent with inke, isnt statements and pointing out documents and the Prosecution Agreement meant to not prosecute them in that context, but they havent landed fully a blow that is undermined fatally as credibility. And remember, you cant go by and judge, david pecker, based on the type of articles they publish and the inquire, the enquirer is not on the stand, its not on trial. What matters to this jury is they believe the statements about the conversation that he had with the person who is the defendant, donald trump. And so far, were seeing a lot of this continuing to play out. Its interesting just now, the what are the prosecutor . Joshua steinglass said to pecker im gonna try not to keep you here too much longer and its not a joke that he should not at this point. And just to underscore what crossexamination is versus redirect versus what comes after crossexamination is where the opposing party picks apart and leads the witness. And then on redirect, you clean up whatever bad dirt got dredged up on crossexamination. But as elie had said, maybe in the last its our you want to narrow down over the course of these three things. And by the time of the redirect, the attorney whos doing it should really only ask a few questions what the prosecution probably needs to do here is just end on one clear understandable point that you can send david pecker home with and have the jury thinking this was the point of david peckers testimony. Youve got to end on a question did you see donald trump direct x or y or z . Yes. Period, full stop and then get out of there. Well, the whole point is that donald trump get special treatment, that it wasnt Standard Operating Procedure that you dont normally pay someone like Karen Mcdougal, 150,000. And i think theyve been driving that that point home, that this was a conspiracy that was hatched with donald trump, Michael Cohen, and david pecker. That this was out of the ordinary, even though yeah, they did stuff on to protect our own shorts, niagara and whatever they never went to these lengths to protect someone as they did with donald trump. And its easy to overdo it here in sort of gild the lily with the questioning at a certain point, its time to pack up and go home. The jury just got back from lunch. Theyre likely going to be start getting tired. Its friday. There is mindful of the clock. Has anyone else and its just worth it to wrap up cut your losses and the Wall Street Journal article though published on november 4, 2016, and this is around the time when theyre exposing. I think the conversation between trump and pecker where hes irritated that something has gotten out. Hes accusing pecker at one point of having someone on his team leak the information, he ends the call by not saying goodbye. Which was unusual for trump to do. He says probably the beginning of the end, but again, this is all going back to the timing of it and why it was important not to have this come out yet. Im wondering who do you think led the next witness will be the second witness in this historic trial. So do they wrap up with peck . So i have no idea but more relevantly, Donald Trumps team has no idea and that is really unusual because ordinarily, the last thing that happens in a trial de is the judge says to the prosecution, prosecution, who are you calling tomorrow . Who we going to have on the stand tomorrow . Often its more advanced than that if to say whos coming in next week, but donald trump has himself to blame for his attorneys lack of visibility here because when his attorneys asked for that notice, the judge said not right now, not the way youve been tweeting about witnesses, not the way youve been violating the gag order now, if im if im Donald Trumps attorneys, you need that. You need to know whos coming you need to know who youre prepping for. I mean, they have a witness list thats dozens of witnesses long. How do you know who to press f4 and so i think what i would do is wait for the judge to give his gag order ruling, which is going to be bad for donald trump. I would say lesson learned. We now have clarity and a really judge need to know. I mean, Defense Lawyers always need to know that. And i would ask not just the who it is in terms of strategy, what lost on people as the name and the prep also talks about the order. The order in which you present these witnesses demonstrators. Are you going crow not chronologically here. Are you want to the jury to believe that here is a pattern of behavior and then up next is Karen Mcdougal events door me and then you have the full chronology or is it . That youre going to go in a direction . I didnt anticipate that your real theory of the case is about a conspiracy to sink in different way or some other way. They want to know not just the name, but they want to know what is the strategy here to guard against that and then be able to actively cross over todays content. And i would add to both of these excellent points, theres a nuts and bolts logistics matter to it. The court needs to know how much time to set aside and be prepared for trial wise. Most judges have other proceedings, maybe even other trials going on or whatever else. But the judge often therell be an estimate. We will call David Xiaolei and to the stand next, i anticipate though, but i anticipate his spellbinding testimony will be three days and the judge might say, well, wrap it up in 2. 5 or whatever and its for the courts own planning. So everybody benefits by knowing who the upcoming witnesses are but as elliott said the trump former present trumps sort of gotten his own way here with his, with his conduct. Well, if we should note that when we were talking about the november 4, 2016 while street journal story, which is where this started after lunch. Thats largely about Karen Mcdougal. Theres a Passing Reference to Stormy Daniels in the story, but that is, that is a story that was published in the aftermath of Access Hollywood right before the election that was really back here, mcdougal now, the prosecutor is getting back into the notion of Stormy Daniels, and that is why so much of david peckers testimony is about mcdougal or the doorman because thats what ami was involved with. I actually the Stormy Daniels thing, as we know, pecker said he wanted no part of that. Is magazine is at walmart and that will look so good or what have you. And then this is on Michael Cohen and donald trump dissolve. And so they want to i guess the prosecutors now, if you look here, pecker says of daniel, sorry, that he wasnt going to print it or buy it or be associated with they wanted him to reassess sir that this issue, Stormy Daniels, which is what all the paperwork in this case is about those payments. That squarely in Donald Trumps lap via Michael Cohen were standing by to get more information who will be the second witness in this historic trial will see if the judge makes a decision on the gag order, the punishment for trump for violating the gag order a, lot of our special coverage is still coming up. Well be right back the Stanley Cup Playoffs presented by geico On Tnt Cup Playoffs presented by geico covers continues to mega tnt and tb. Were in a Limestone Cave letting extreme residue build up to put finished jet dry to the Test Dishwashers are designed to use jet dry to defend against top residues. For are practically spotlights, shine when to leave works all day. 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Fubotv im Sunlen Serfaty in washington and this is cnn welcome back to our special live coverage. Former President Donald Trumps new york Hush Money Trial. Former Tabloid Executive david pecker is still on the stand for the Redirect Examination and pecker just reiterated that when it came to the Stormy Daniel story, he wasnt going to print it or be associated with it. Our panel is back with us now and it looks like notes from the interview confirmed that pecker told the fbi that when he visited trump tower in january 2017, donald trump thanked him for handling the doorman and mcdougal stories. And i want to get back to what we heard moments ago and name that has only come up sparingly but that is at the center of this case, not as Stormy Daniels. Why is it important in the redirect for the prosecution to ask david pecker about him staying away from that story . Yeah. Because they spent so much time setting up the two stories that he was willing to pay for and suppress door man who alleged falsely alleged trial that Wedlock Caramel google whole alleged affair. But then you get similarly a similar story, store and mcdaniels offering to sell her tail. And he said, i want nothing to do with that. And there were a lot of reasons for that. A big one was that he was not paid back for the 150,000 and he paid Karen Mcdougal and this sort of brings us up to the beginning of the falsified in Business Records story because Stormy Daniels, her contact, they get passed off to Michael Cohen, who we now know facilitate this Hush Money Payment that is at the center of this case. So thats why theyre just revisiting exactly what his connection was to Stormy Daniels and the fact that he wanted nothing to do with that particular payment does it surprise you, karen, that about a week into testimony now we havent heard that much about Stormy Daniels. This is really one of the only occasions that her name is even come up. It doesnt surprise me because really what this case is actually about is this whole election conspiracy to try and influence the election by doing this catch and kill and other all the things pecker has been testifying about, yet donald trump focused on criticizing all his all his criticisms where Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels and that was the more salacious sister, the more salacious facts. And so thats what everyone focused on. But what the trials doing is really refocusing everyone on what its actually about, which is not just hush money porn star case. This is about thank to influence an election and committing crimes and doing so and so thats the trial is actually much more or much less salacious, i should say. Then we were led to believe it would be before yes, i packer made a great first witness for the prosecution to set the stage as a broader pattern of coordinating and trumps direct involvement here to suppress these negative stories ahead of November 2016 . So what does trump thanking pecker for handling the mcdougal story and the doormans story. How does that fit into their effort to link the two . So whats going on right now . This is redirect. And the fact that Josh Steinglass, the prosecutor, is focusing on these things like thinking thank you, et cetera is two things. Number one, thats significant because it shows an acknowledgment that donald trump knew what this was about, but it also shows that what that Josh Steinglass thinks that the points that were scored on cross had to do with dates and little things, little inconsistencies from from what he told the fbi versus what hes saying on the stand. So what steinglass is doing is hes refocusing lets talk about the consistencies, and lets talk about the consistencies about the things that really matter, whether something happened in july or august isnt as important as a thank you. Yeah. This is significant here. Because per the transcript, pecker told the grand jury at the time that during his conversation with donald trump, trump said, karen is a good girl, quote and weve got another update, pecker confirms that in his 2018 grand jury testimony testified that trump told him the mcdougal and doorman stories could have been damaging. Karen mcdougal could potentially be a witness, but theres some question as to whether it should actually be called the stan yeah. Shes certainly within the realm of possibility, but what does she really we add to the story that they cant get from someone else. Theres also some concerns about a recent decision and Harvey Weinstein case that was overturned. They could be complicated with her. Its unlikely. I think at this point, i dont know if you agree that shell be called to the stand, but its certainly within the realm of possibility be called to talk about her, not her her caching kill agreement she kinda fits. Actually, we just got an update. The prosecution is finished its redirect of pecker quickly to the question of Karen Mcdougal. She kinda fits that mold of a throwaway. Witnesses weve describing on a friday afternoon, do you think here . I would think shes actually a pretty powerful witness because shes going to talk about if she if she testifies, shes going to talk about a year long affair that she had with donald trump. Qizan loved with them he was married at the time so i would think thats a pretty thats a pretty salacious witness. Yes, shes shes shes not that important to the case, but i think people would but have a lot of interest in that. I was thinking more of someone who could authenticate a Business Record or Something Like that, someone that youve just never heard of before. So lets see, ive always thought mcdougal could actually its always been hey, good witness for the defense because that unlike the Stormy Daniels physical relationship, which was several occasions, very transactional, was nearly a year long romantic relationship. She talked about how she was in love with him. This was something that im really upset. Melania trump, that could really help bolster the defense case, but well see what happens. We five or six weeks to my shaimaa pop up. Well see paula, karen. Thank you both so much. And we just got an update. Trump attorney emil beauvais, bringing up the phrase National Enquirer gold the defense now starting its recross of david pecker, still much more to come on cnn or special coverage continues right after this live from the Nations Capital, one of the most unforgettable nights in dc, the swornin will read back here again they didnt biden and comedian Collin Joseph headline the white house Correspondents Dinner live tomorrow at seven eastern on cnn doug, hello, ghostbusters its duck of doggedly moon we help people customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with Liberty Mutual anyway we got a bit of a situation here sure i can only pay for what you need those clusters frozen empire in theaters now okay, everyone our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition or strength and energy ensure with 27 vitamins and Minerals Nutrients for me let me help ensure complete with 30 grams of protein zehr take allergy relief works fast. It lasts a false hours. 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Com closed captioning brought to you by mesobook are firm only represents mesothelial of victims and their families. If you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now welcome back to see you that special coverage of former president trumps criminal Hush Money Trial, like to bring back my panel right down to discuss all the latest developments from inside the courtroom. And laura, lets talk about the defense now, crossexamining, read crossexamining. David pecker, the former rep. Publisher of the National Enquirer. I thought it was significant that he really didnt want to get into the whole Stormy Daniels issue. It is its one of those things. Well, first of all, in the big apple, how many bites at the apple will these prosecutors and defense get at this one witness . You normally think about a direct across maybe going back the way back yet again which alerts the jury that there were some unfinished business. I can have two different effects. On the one hand, adraee could say, oh, something was really important here. They need to whittle down on if they dont drill down and if they dont do so, i might miss something. The other thing would be is this sloppy attorneys, i dont have you not been able to do the first time . Well and correctly . But the important thing here in terms of why this is important, Stormy Daniels is the one case. It seems to be the one headline of all the National Enquirer headline. They didnt want to touch with a ten foot pole. Think about the types of things theyve published in the past. This was the case that was different. Why . Because they had already been burned not only with the discussion on Arnold Schwarzenegger and having thank him formally be the editor in chief of fitness magazines, and then being some editor at large and those magazines and then having it discovered they had a catch and kill scheme which was embarrassing. The organization then youve got the idea of not being repaid, buy on the issue of Karen Mcdougal are having a backandforth going on there, then youve got the general counsel of ami saying you dont do not want to be reimbursed by the Trump Organization or have that on your books and then them saying, i want nothing to do with the porn star. This doesnt really, in many ways comport for people that the salacious headlines would make this sort of headline, not what you wanted except for this donald trump would not be the beneficiary of a publication or a headline. Their relations and ship might take a hit and thats what they are trying to establish in this entire testimony its really interesting because at one point, pecker said he didnt want to. Stormy daniels to be on the cover of the National Enquirer because she was a quote, porn star and that would not look good for the National Enquirer to be highlighting a porn star over at various supermarkets around the country. I mean, the idea of them looking down their nose at her. Im sure is probably what the defense will hope to do as well at the one ensuring actually day pecker is now off the stand. We know. Oh who the new person will be. The prosecutors have now called rona graph trumps former longtime assistant to the stand. So thats now the person will go to next and itll be interesting to see why theyve chosen this person. But yet again, another person, a confidant, a friend, an employee, a donald trump, taking a stand against that. She is now in the court rumor on a graph, and trump looks over at her as shes walking in. So shes going to be testifying. What do you think . I can see two potential uses to the prosecution of rondo graph. First of all, assistance see things they are there, theyre seeing whos coming coming into the office, whos leaving, maybe the door is open, maybe not so assistance can be very powerful. Witnesses. The other thing is they may prosecutors may use rondo graph as a vehicle to introduce documents to the jury. Do you recognize this . Yes. What is that . Thats our ledger that we kept. Those are our invoices, that kind of thing. So sometimes you do this, you call it a witness to get documents in front of the jury, and then you use those documents to support the key witnesses, including Michael Cohen. She was also referenced earlier. I believe in david peckers first day on the stand. First of all roadgraph did not appear to glance at trumps table on her walk to the witness, then she was a real gatekeeper. Anybody who covered donald trump, even before he was published . Petition in trump tower. She was a real gatekeeper to donald trump, but i believe i dont have it in front of me. Pecker testified that he observed her coming in with invoices and bills, checks to sign, and that donald trump took a personal specific interest in knowing what the invoice was being paid and pudding being a signature on the checks that he wanted paid and that that was in her custody that david pecker observed in trumps mind that prompted him being a micromanager, detailoriented, to get to donald trump you always had to go through rona graph. I know this personally and rona was somebody i believe she made phone calls for donald trump. I dont know if she listened in on phone calls that donald trump had. That could be very useful testimony if in fact that was the case, she was very close to donald trump and she was sort of beyond a gatekeeper she, she was almost somebody people would go to and say, well, what do you think mr. Trump would say about this or would say about that . So i think that she could be quite a valuable witness in terms of talking about how much attention he paid too detail whom he was talking with, what his relationship with Michael Cohen was but even the relationship now between them, have they had a falling out . I dont know. I think shes retired, but i dont i really dont know as a prosecution clearly thinks shes going to be beneficial to their case against trump solute and a lot of mundane things you can do. So even to your points, gloria, she can so if there are phone records and she can say, do you remember a phone call . Hey, look, this is many years ago, but do remember a phone call happening . Do you remember being if hope hicks being in this room at the time that of the august 2015 meeting. So in addition to the broader relationship issues that were talking about here she can just literally authenticate documents and records and she plays his calls for Donald Trumps so hell scream out rona, get me so and so on the phone and she would do that. Show no very useful for the defense though, in the set if if in the event that shes able to describe similarly to the way and shes here are testifying by the way, pursuant to a subpoena. Shes not walking in voluntarily and saying sign me up to testify against my old boss, but she can be very helpful for the defense in the sense of establishing the motives of say, Michael Cohen you heard david pecker even make that statement of i told donald trump that he is willing to go in front of a bus for you. He was robust for you and it almost seemed to be capitalized on by the defense trying to suggest that he had his own motives, his own reasons for wanting snow only marc work for mark cuban at one point was brought up im wondering if the paparazzi present when he was around to make sure you can buttressed his own credibility in his own esteem. And so she might be able to talk a little bit about what he was like and whether he was somebody who was an opportunist or somebody who is actually at the behest of trump. And were forgetting the perhaps the biggest and id say most obvious, but we dont know if she can do it. Can she say with certainty, did you hear president trumps say the words that he was interested in suppressing these stories for the purpose of benefiting his campaign. Perhaps youll be asked about that she, was in monaco. Its interesting, the Trump Organization were run a graph, worked for 34 years, is paying for her attorneys right now. Yeah, thats a really interesting dynamic that does not prohibit her are prevent her from telling the truth, but it does make it a little dicey. This is common practice, i should say frequently when a corporation comes under investigation, the corporation will pay for and provide attorneys for everyone who was an employee and donald trump is a master of doing this. Weve seen examples of him doing this everybody from cassidy hutchinson, people involved in the classified documents case as a natural result, it does make it more difficult for people to come forward and tell the truth but ill tell you this. Prosecutors would not be calling run a graph unless they believed she had come fully clean. She can she would be helpful to their she can tell you how the Trump Organization worked she can tell you how much attention donald trump pain to detail. She can talk to you about the relationships between the children and donald trump and Michael Cohen. Sorry, that she was in charge of his calendar. Like every his goings of gametes right and he would always say ask rona, you know, somebody wants to go see him. Asked ronan, shall set it up, making the phone calls for him. I mean, she was probably with him more than anybody else during an average de it also 2409 on friday with no court on monday. And so a strategy for prosecution will be thinking about what witness do i need to call and want to call that i could maximize the amount of time, but not necessarily need their testimony to linger and carry through all the way till tuesday when court resumes, its not going to be you dont want to end say, or hat introducing Karen Mcdougal or Michael Cohen on this day and allow things to fester and just marinate he wants up and who might be just there to move along the introduction of documents and beyond and not have such a problematic credibility issue at the end of the day, its interesting the prosecution attorney susan hoffinger, is questioning. I run a graph right now. Shes answering questions on a whole range of issues. And this is a woman who knows a lot about what was going on at the Trump Organization and what was going on in trumps life, right . So right now, were see a courts scared officers hitting roadgraph with thumbs. Im not number one. It could be. Did some we documents that theyre asking her to review or confirm i still get the get back to if there are electronics schedules and she can attest that she was aware of them and frankly made them they can likely be brought in as evidence and she can say on this date, this meeting can happen. And frankly, for a witness like this, you could even use her for a very limited purpose, only have her up there for a couple hours just to get an a few documents as elie was saying a little bit earlier, a few documents, schedules, and so on. And then turn to monday where you call are tuesday where you call it. You just said that as far as she could remember, trump never used email to communicate. I can i can confirm that trump several times before he became president United States, and whatever i would go to trump tower to interview him, i could see that he was into paper he was not a to email or nothing like that. These are called Business Records, may not a super technical title, but that is the legal or for what these are, they will be admissible. Think about anyone you know, who relies on an assistant think about how much that assistant knows about the day by day, the play by play, and especially because prosecutors have a challenger, this conduct happened eight years ago, almost its really hard to reconstruct what happened eight years ago, people are not going to remember day by day. But if you can pull off an electronic calendar, if you can pull up call logs it can really help reconstruct the history here. This is not a Large OrganizationTrump Organization. She knows everybody really well and she knows every relationship there and how donald trump regarded people and what he really thought about Michael Cohen, and how he used Michael Cohen as his fixer and what the children thought of Michael Cohen, which was apparently not much and so i think shes shes good for the document part of this, but shes also an important witness, i think to talk about the sort of ethos of the Trump Organization and how donald trump ran it and how much attention he paid to the receipts. And to what was going on. And also, she can talk about the relationship with david pecker. Can you imagine though just taking a step back on what this must feel like for donald trump in this moment. I mean, we know the witness list includes people like hope hicks, Michael Cohen. Michael cohen clearly, no love lost in the sense that we are all very clear at the status of their relationship. Were on a graph, somebody who would have been his righthand woman thinking about her important role, david pecker, a longterm friend. Weve seen the pictures outside of the white house, naveen david pecker was invited to sit in meeting with mike pompeo and jame dimon. Call me and then told in front of all them he knows more than anyone in this room that all of these people are being paraded in front of him and essentially while he has to sit there in front of a jury of 18 people, where hes under a microscope. This is not the comfortable space that donald trump is accustomed to being in. And by the way, were nowhere near even close to the middle of this trial. And so just think about what the optics was like. No wonder youre hearing, different reports about how he wants to have the muzzle off the gag order table to go at the different witnesses were talking, but the witnesses were talking about now are people who is very close to and rona is one of them very close and. She just testified that as far as she could remember, trump never communicated via email and all he was sort of lowtech, i guess, not hightech prosecutors also ask graph to to verify several exhibits that are emails she exchanged with madeline western hot, who worked in the trump white house. Thats gonna be interesting as well. Yeah. I mean, obviously he didnt use emails. It doesnt mean that no emails were in the universe of donald trump, which is why youre having other witnesses coming to talk about what they were sending perhaps his behalf, ps and otherwise, he also were seeing a little bit more about how hes sitting backing closing his eyes is getting going into detail about the emails that are being sent, which seem to be as common demeanor and the court which by the way, its interesting to me that he has not yet formed a relationship with this jury were not hearing a lot about reports about how he is using his via language or otherwise to try to convey how hes feeling in the moment. And we dont have cameras in the courtroom, but its clear that he will have to demonstrate his disdain at some point also, graph is confirming that to contact she maintained at the Trump Organization, were for Karen Mcdougal and Stormy Daniels go, how did he call Karen Mcdougal . And i think and im also curious as to about two updates ago, these emails were they simply mundane . Maybe scheduling matters wherever else. Or did they talk about the campaign or did they talk about any of these individuals not out of the question. This testimony from renault graph is going to be significant. And very, very interesting. Were going to stand top of it. Everyone stay with us much more of our special coverage coming up right after this riyadh says new of them is breaking records gets to say what country is comey country beyond, say a nashvilles renaissance stream . Coming exclusively on macs imagine a future where plastic is not wasted. 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We now know its rona graph graph was trumps former assistant for many years. She worked at the Trump Organization for decades, working directly for donald trump. She is now facing direct examination by the prosecution, boris yeah, well graph just testified that she was the person in charge of Donald Trumps calendar and contracts or reminder . Shes now the second long time trump confidant to testify. Shes on the sand after roughly ten hours of texas testimony from former Tabloid Executive, david pecker, we just got an update from inside the courtroom about a calendar entry being shown by the prosecution teleprompter practice session on the 25th floor of trump tower on january 16, 2017. Lets walk through that minutia and put it in context with cnn, chief Legal Affairs corresponds on it. Paula reid and former Manhattan District Attorney prosecutor. Karen friedman, agnifilo. Thank you so much for being back with us monograph not a name that you would expect would come early on a witness testimony. Yeah. But absolutely anticipated that she would come up actually, i mean, this woman had the keys to the kingdom. She saw everything she knew pretty much everyone when you can see here prosecutors just as karen predicted on this show, about an hour ago theyre using her to help introduce documents, lay the foundation for the fact that she she knew Stormy Daniels new Karen Mcdougal, the contacts were in their now going through his calendar so she can really help them confirm a couple of key dates, contacts, and events. So i think thats why theyre going through the calendar, but thats exactly what karen said they do with their last where they two hours fourandahalf, karen and di predicted we would see a witness like this. Whats the significance in this kind of case to have a witness that were so close to donald trump that had access not only to his calendar, but two, who hes communicating with so its clear that what the prosecution strategy here is, which is Michael Cohen is obviously adverse to donald trump and theres a lot of animosity and hostility between the two of them. Same with Stormy Daniels, somebody who he denies having any contact with whatsoever. So the prosecution is literally proving their case through people who are closest to donald trump. First, people who he has no adverse relationship with, no hostility, with no animosity with these are his people. These are the people closest to him theyre going to establish as many of their facts to their case. Through witnesses that are Donald Trumps inner circle. So i think its a very effective strategy because as we saw from the crossexamination of david pecker was not very aggressive. It was there wasnt much that they could do because the two of them have mutual admiration for one another still and as were getting updates, it looks like theyre going through calendar entries about january 2017 or so. I know they dont like it when i get ahead of the side stream, but we know from our colleagues inside the courtroom that this is already wrapped up corporate route prosecutions questioning. Now says necklace isnt the defense team is doing cross, so this is again exactly what karen said would happen. Theyd put on a witness to introduce some documents they want to use this 90 minutes for friday. In this particular way. And this is the best way instead of bringing on a significant witness before we get into the crossexamination, theres a question asked during a direct example nation that i thought was interesting. They asked her about Donald Trumps use of email. Why is that significant . I think because youre not going to see a paper trail between donald trump and anybody in this day and age, most criminal trials involve some form of electronic footprint that will corroborate information whether its Text Messages or emails or other other communications between people. And i think the prosecutions theory here is that Michael Cohen spoke on behalf of donald trump to david pecker and others, including via email and text message. And so its not unusual that youre not going to see, although, although you have statements from david pecker that he spoke directly to donald trump and donald trump told him to do certain things. The only document, documentation of it that youre going to see via email and text message are gonna be through other people because he didnt donald trump himself didnt utilize that. So i think thats what theyre trying to establish their fact that we came to know well, covering the white house during Donald Trumps administration, hes not an email guy. Big paper. No. I mean, i want to touch on two updates here. Now, the Defense Attorneys are asking rid of graph about her work there, and its actually a very warm exchange here. Theyre asking if she enjoyed her time there. She talked about how it was a very exciting, stimulating place to be they also asked you if trump respected her intelligence. She said she wouldnt have worked there for 34 years if it didnt. And this is the first time trump is apparently smiling, kind of laughing. He seems to be enjoying this now again, she worked for him for decades. Hes also paying for her lawyer. But your question about emails, whats amazing to me is that the heart of this case or documents, Business Records, ill paper trail something trump is famous for never leaving the way he speaks even that someone could recount a conversation and tie him to something hes very careful, not a texter, not an email, or is always very careful not to leave a paper trail. So the fact that were here on a case about falsifying documents to help in a campaign of all the criminal investigations into former president trump. Im surprised its this one that brings us to trial for the first time. It is significant remember, reports of him tearing up pieces of paper. He never liked to keep pieces of paper paula and karen. Thank you both so much. Appreciate it. Wolf will send it back to you. Okay. Thanks very much. Trumps attorney is now a crossexamining run a graph. Trump attorney susan necklace laura coates so far, what are jurors learning from renault graph that stands out to you . Well, i think youre seeing that her role here is not to try to undermine the credibility of another witness, but just to be rao the eyes and the ears pecker said he was going to be in his catch and kill scheme, but in a much more friendly way, this is not a time to as a crossexamining her to attack her as if she is out to get donald trump during to cfs softer touch for this particular witness. Shes talking about her experiences on trump. She is the role for the defense to humanize him you hear a lot about the myth of donald trump. And of course, all the bravado, what you think might happen in trump tower, her role is to demystify all of that and portray him as somebody who is approachable blade, which talks about saying of trump sometimes he would peak his head and her office and say, go home to your family. That was very thoughtful of him talking about it being a fair caring, respectful, both the he respected her intelligence. Now, youre looking at a woman testifying about this as well, but the power of optics all this time, weve been hearing about the tabloids of Karen Mcdougal of a Stormy Daniels, and the perception of course, within the access Hollywood Tape, its being referenced, although not actually play it because its too prejudicial according the judge which is paying the picture of somebody whos not respectful of women, somebody who is in fact disrespectful of womens, somebody who would have perhaps massage enlisting viewpoints. This is a woman testifying about a 34 year professional relationship where she is respected for her intelligence, where she is being treated fairly. This exactly what the defense wants to accomplish this hour and being questioned by a female attorney. And i wonder, look, theres all kinds of reasons why on a trial team you pick one person to question one witness or another, but it is striking in terms of some of the points youre making, laura, that i think the first time weve seen susan mykolas, do. Well, of course the second witness, but still and the prosecution who was also a woman in this context as well. And the three inch and dj, who was also invited, apparently at the heart of the inauguration she got to sit up close. Itll be interesting to see you know, just work at this gender question, how they handle Stormy Daniels on both sides, who doesnt want to. She comes to tests when she comes testified, yet. Well, so clearly, the Donald TrumpsDefense Lawyers are using her as a mini character witness, which youre borderline allowed to do, but its the kind of thing that can slide through. In most cases. But the reason they called her as brought prosecutors is simply to get in these documents and its also important to note when were thinking about the pacing of this case witnesses can be four days law. We just saw with pecker and they can be 20 minutes long, like were saying, with ronan graph. So theres going to be days where we get through not even one one witness is on stand all day. Theres going to be days where we could have three, four, or five witnesses on the stand. What prosecutors need to do. Now is present these documents to the jury in a way that they can understand. This is a chunk prosecutors are bad at this. Prosecutors do not know how to stage things. And so they need to we used to say you need to think about it like youre putting on a theater production. How am i going to show these ledgers in a way where the jurys can understand them can make sense of them, and youre going to need somebody to walk you through them. I thought they might try that with coronagraph, but somebody else is going to be the tour guide through those documents would it be Michael Cohen . Id be really reluctant to do that, but somebody has to say, yes, heres what the entry shows for this. Yes, heres what this phone records shows her to do that sorry. Why wouldnt hurt . No, i dont know. Maybe she wouldnt be in position to do that. There may be actual participants in the meetings who they want to show, okay. This shows that there was a meeting on january 17, 2017. Were you in fact, at that meeting . Yes, i was. Is that reflected here . Sure. Who else was there . It was a, b, and c important. Roadgraph said she to the best of her knowledge, trump never communicated via email. Why should we care about well, it was a fax . And i think its just getting out there. The fact that youre not going to find facts related to the case via email are there any thing damning about the former president in this case is going to come in the form of testimony from other people to the point as to her and these documents another thing to know about the mechanics of a trial is that unless both parties agree to a piece of evidence coming in someone has to introduce whether its a ledger or a document or a schedule and authenticate it in effect, be able to say this is what we say it is and it is now admitted into evidence. It has to come in through a witness. These documents came in through her and then as ellie was saying, she can be someone will be questioned about also pointed out that graph had the Contact Information, the contexts for both Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal, what do you make of that . Oh, its a big well, again, someone has to someone it has to be able to testify to the fact that the way that trump tower had the Contact Information and interacted with these people and the person who can do that, who has that firsthand knowledge is the gatekeeper the median connect down here as to why Stormy Daniels may have been in trump tower and i dont know, but it seems that trumps lawyer i after a series of questions about trumps interest in casting Celebrity Apprentice prosecutors object. Lawyers are at the bench. It seems that there this Stormy Daniels being at trump tower somehow got connected to the trump team wanting to make the case that he was very interested in casting Celebrity Apprentice. I think the natural question that jury, the jurors are thinking about when they here while hes got Karen McdougalStormy DanielsContact Information is why white, right . It doesnt sound good for him and put what trumps lawyers appear to be trying to do now is to give an innocuous why and if it had something to do with Celebrity Apprentice or Something Else then that takes it down a notch in terms of its impact and dont forget though, it doesnt. I mean, for the purpose of the jury what they have to prove as the prosecutors is that falsifying Business Records they have to prove their are some intent to defraud intend to commit another crime or aid to conceal the commission of and that they had a false entry. They dont actually have to prove there was ever an affair. They dont actually have to improve prove thats where my daniels was not a Celebrity Apprentice yes, maybe casting call. They dont have to prove they all they have to prove is that there was some basis tied the election that made Donald Trump Team nervous enough to try to pay and falsified Business Records and so the fact that there is Contact Information for only Karen Mcdougal and termini annulus is important to buttress the credibility of the fact that there was a knowing relations in ship of summer interactions, some kind. But the ultimate question of whether they had an affair different, but then graph says that she vaguely recalls hearing trumps say that she was one of the people that may be an interesting contest and talking about Stormy Daniels, but that it was all part of the office chatter. I mean, just keep in mind this person, wrote a graph, sat on the platform for the inauguration. Thats how important and how close she was the donald trump. And she says of the his her presence, thats why she assumed that she was even at trump tower. Remember the prosecution tried to suggest that she was there as if there was an ongoing protect are leaving it out there to linger. There was some sort of ongoing relationship. Shes cutting thing that down. So i would expect maybe opportunity for a redirect if possible. Its good defense work here because what theyre doing is putting forward an alternate theory for the crime thats alleged. What is alleged here is that the conduct around these relationships was was personal and not tied to campaigns. What they can say heres no, these were just the way we interact with these people merely because they were going to be on a show that casting he another way for donald trump to keep Stormy Daniels. Do as a Defense Attorney is provide plausible explanations that the jury can latch onto if they want to. Im not saying i buy it either, but this just to give a sense into what might be in necklaces had as shes going through this question, what does it tell you about donald trump i mean, here he is trying to cast Celebrity Apprentice here he is thinking, gee, maybe Stormy Daniels would be somebody whod be interesting to have on that show, forgetting about their past relationship i mean, its so donald trump, right . Hes thinking this would be interesting for people to watch. And rona graph observes everything shes talking about, office chatter. She knew what was going on at the water cooler there at the Trump Organization . So i think she can be valuable in that way as well. Shes the ultimate loyalist to donald trump. She likes him. She worked for him for 34 years. He was good to her. And lets see what the what the calendar reveals. Know if the prosecution notified the Trump Lawyers like susan necklace, whos questioning, run a graph right now in advance that roadgraph would be the second witness, so we dont know about the sequencing question, but they certainly notified the defense that wrong photograph would be a witness. And also important to know, we dont do trial by surprise in this country. All these documents that are on a graph was just shown an authenticated and are now in evidence the defense has had those for many, many months. Thats what when we we talk about discovery, we use that phrase. That means the prosecutions the obligation to turn over all that evidence to the defense in advance or everybody stand by. Our special coverage of the former president s trial will continue right after this. Well talk also with a retired judge who spent nearly 20 heres on the bench, will get some special insight about how the judge in trumps case is handling this landmark trial seeking titanic. 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Shes also the author of the book, her honore of my life on the bench. What works, whats broken, and how to change it. Judge. Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. First, i want to get your reaction to this testimony by rona graph. It was fairly quick and it lasted in total, i think less. Than, an hour what she was called by the prosecution and what the prosecution is doing is giving the jurors a story and building on the story. So the first witness was mr. Pecker, and he lays the groundwork kinda talking about how all this works with interacting with trump and and with the newspaper. The tabloid. And so then, now is the next step. And so what the prosecution doing is doing what they should do and what all prosecutors do is theyre telling a story and this is the next person to reveal a little bit more information to get them where theyre going. So thats why this witness wasnt on long. She was there for specific purpose crossexamination was along and off. She went i just want to give our viewers a quick update from our reporters inside the courtroom. Apparently, donald trump has walked out of the room with a stern expression, clutching a stack of documents as he continues to scan both sides of the courtroom. Judge cordell im curious to get your perspective on the pace of the proceedings this far, because really weve had testimony from one witness over several days. That was the former polish publisher, david pecker and just about an hour of testimony from this long time, trump assistant are things moving at a proper speed from your pointofview . Well, the speed of the trial is determined mainly by the trial judge. As you noted, ive presided over trials for a long time. And when you have a jury, you keep your eye. If youre trying to on the jury, are they nodding off . Are they not paying attention . And so you want to have the trial move along and the people who can slow it down are the lawyers. So if the question be questioning becomes tedious and it seems not quite relevant, that can be a problem. So with this trial, things are moving smoothly and they are moving as they should they take more time with witnesses. They think are more important than other witnesses . So the groundwork is being laid and i think the pace is one absolutely. A good one. And i havent heard any reports from those inside the courtroom that the jurors appear to be uninterested in not paying attention that is a good point. I do want to ask you about judge merchan, not yet ruling on the gag orders rather, the gag order. These complaints coming from the prosecution of donald trump has made repeated post on social media remarks before cameras attacking witnesses go going after different folks, taking part in the proceedings. There was a hearing earlier this week, i think on tuesday that took about two hours of time im going into the details. There was an additional filing for potential new violations. Prosecutors argue, what do you think the judges delaying a decision on . On this well, first of all, this is whats called indirect contempt. Its criminal contempt, but indirect because the contempt didnt occur right in front of the judge. So there was a hearing on ten violations that the prosecution claims whats committed by donald trump. And so now they have four more. They have filed for more violations. So were talking a total of 14. So if we look at the first ten, the judge heard evidence, you have to have an evidentiary hearing when its indirect contempt direct content would be if donald trump were to do something in front of the judge, then there wouldnt be an evidentiary hearing because the judge would be the eyewitness. So in this instance, the judge has delayed giving a ruling, but in the question is why well, i think one reason is that if your trial judge theres tremendous pressure on your anyway, just generally every day when you go to court, but when you are presiding over a highprofile trial, and i have done that in terms of highprofile within mylocation in Silicon Valley in california. But this is just way over the top high profile, there is tremendous pressure on the judge because everything the judge says everything the judge orders is under a microscope. So when youre under that kind of pressure, you are deliberate. You dont do anything thats rushed. And this instance, he has to first of all, he has to make a decision. Youre not a good trial judge. If you dont like making decisions he has to make a decision. And the key here is a decision has to be one that punishes once if he determines there were violations, i cant imagine the judge will find that there were no violations and hes already warned that donald trump and donald trump has been fined before. But heres whats unprecedented whats unprecedented is if this judge decides that incarceration is appropriate, thats never been done to a former president. So if that is going to happen, i can appreciate the judge being very deliberate and likely have a written decision the judge could sentence donald trump two up to 30 days in jail for each violation. And thats just the first ten so i can appreciate that, but hes going to have to rule thats what trial judges do. And hes going to have to make a decision judge ladoris hazard cordell, we very much appreciate the perspective. Thanks for being with us. Thank you wael trial of donald trump a historic one is now on a quick break. 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So fine blue star, max at a retailer near you what would you like to pay for your hotel room tonight . 185, 169 or 155 same room. Same surface. Just different prices. Really up to you nobody asks you this a perception. But thats exactly what go does trivago compares hotel prices from hundreds of booking sites so save yourself valuable time and money. You sure vargo, compare regain his lunch break. Try now for free visit otter. Ai, ai or download the app on your house solomon in new york cnn welcome back to cnns special coverage. If former President Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial, run a graph, trumps former longtime assistant took the stand after days of testimony from the x tabloid publisher david pecker. But unlike pecker, she was on the stand for just a very short time. And now were waiting to see who the next witness is going to be. My panel is joining us now to discuss the latest developments from inside the courtroom. And laura, did both sides seem to accomplish what they were trying to accomplish, at least so far today, it appears so if you look at the goals of any witness, now, every one witness is not going to give you everything you need. Every person is not going to prove if your entire case and every witness not going to give you that either, that perry mason moment or that blockbuster who ordered the code red, that people might think happens in court rooms, but doesnt actually happen in courtrooms. The purpose of this witness, it seemed was to introduce documents to demonstrate the he did not use email. Maybe that was used by the prosecution is suggests that therell be other witnesses you have rely on for the information you seek. Also, that triangles have been in trump tower before he ran for the presidency and announces election. And that there was also Contact Information for both Karen Mcdougal and termini. They dont have to actually prove as the prosecutors. And there was ever any sexual liaisons or an affair. But what they do have to prove is a way to by trust or credibility of their other witnesses. Now, on the other side for the defense, their goal seemed to be look recognize this as a friendly witness to you. Dont have to unduly crossexamine this person, demonstrates and humanize donald trump. She did just that talking about them as being respectful boss is somebody who affected her intelligence, who is often fair and decent in her role, how close she was. She was so close this person for 34 years when it was time for his inauguration, she was on the platform. Thats how close she was to him and think theyve all accomplished that. But on the other side of this, if youre the prosecution this case and you think youre going to call a witness at the end of the de and say, all right, your honor, i think hate to start the next witness this here are the judge is like, whos your next witness . Prosecutors. You said you called ready lets go. Whos next . Lets find out whos going to be third. The third witness. What do you make the pacing so far this trial, the judge is moving the trial along. So case in point, whats look back to last week and Jury Selection which truly could have taken weeks if the judge had gone through every one of these perspective jurors who raised their hands and said they couldnt be fair to donald trump. And he questioned each one of them individually, which he was allowed to do to try to rehabilitate them and get them to give an honest answer. So that they could be fair on a jury that could have added weeks to the trial. I think hes moving it along in a lot of it really is on the judge now, setting aside that the judge has not ruled on this gag order, which is a sort of looming question over the trial, is it nothings have normal here. The idea of david pecker testifying for ten hours, but rona graph testifying for what was it, 20 or 30 minutes is also not alarming based on what you wish to get. These two witnesses. One was a critical fact witness talking about firsthand interactions with the defendant. Another one came in to get a couple of documents into evidence and get out of there. And thats it. What do they do with those document . In other words, they got documents, probably the calendar from rona graph so they can raise them at any at any point. I mean, she doesnt have to be on the Witness Stand up. It does not so heres what can someone can testify as to whats in them, assuming its not hearsay because even a statement written in a calendar can be hearsay depending on what the exceptions are. So number one, someone can testify to it. Number two, they can argue to it because now its evidenced at trial, even if the jury hasnt said it, so they can say in their closing argument, ladies and gentlemen, you have now as exhibit 14 a a calendar that has an entry that im making this up, everybody, but that has Stormy Daniels entering trump tower on x date take a look at it. See for yourself, you know that this happened on that day do you trump has returned to the courtroom these back inside. Hes no longer carrying papers for whatever that means. But judge merchan is now back on the bench as well. So this is about to resume what stood out to you the most glory about run graphs customer, her loyalty shes adoring of donald trump. I mean, she is worked for him for 34 years. She said he treated her very well. She said that she didnt want to be there on the Witness Stand. The only reason she was there, obviously, its because she got a subpoena and, you know, its very clear to me that this is the kind of loyalty that donald trump loves. He apparently smiled when she was, when she was on the Witness Stand shes valuable because potentially because of those documents she did see Stormy Daniels out there in the waiting room so i think we just have to see what the calendar shows, but she was somebody that the defense can use and say human eyes, donald trump, to a great degree about how he treated if someone who worked for him one small, small bit of caution, i would give to the world about any piece of evidence sometimes Something Like a calendar can literally be two up did to demonstrate that to people interacted on a day can be to demonstrate that that it was a wednesday as opposed to a tuesday, and not this is the moment at which we know that the defendant committed the crime. Some things are just totally monday. Everyone. Thank you very, very much. Everybody standby are special coverage this historic criminal trial will continue straight ahead sunday. The rise of ms dont you . Live in reports from the front lines. Pharaoh knows taylor swift is a government site you dont believe taylor swift as i dont know what to believe the whole story with Anderson Cooper sunday at eight on cnn, with the fund drives innovation fund. You can invest in some of the worlds top tech companies, including those leading the ai revolution. Before they go public the future is now open for investment toe fungus is tough to kill and it can spread. Its time to start using funky nail, maximum strength bungie nail is so powerful, it cures and prevents fungal infections. Plus it has aloe and tea tree oil to restore skin out. Say goodbye to toe fungus with bungie male. On the left, your mouthwash with the Burning Sensation in on the right closest the alcoholfree gentle mouthwash that works without the burn, closest mouthwashes freshen breath, improve gum health, and strengthen teeth closest works without the burn right . 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Paula gary pharaoh, not exactly a household name. Not even named those known very well to those of us who are covering this. So prosecutors clearly using the last hour, maybe on a friday before a threeday break does bring in some witnesses who can likely help them introduce some exhibits, right . Verify some documents because at the core of this, this is a paperwork case, right. Allegation 34 counts of falsifying Business Records. So theres a few things were still waiting. Were getting these great updates from our colleagues in the courtroom. Theres a few Different Things he could be testifying about. He could be testifying about payments made to Stormy Daniels. We also know that Michael Cohen he had to borrow against his home to pay Stormy Daniels to that could also be why he has been called to the stand, but we expect this to be a pretty quick appearance. By this witness, mr. Pharaoh, to likely just help them bring in some documents that theyre going to need over the next few weeks . Yeah. Again, a friday afternoon, not much time to go before court is set to wrap for the de its gonna be a long weekend for these jurors. You dont want to use an impactful witness right now. Paula reid. Thanks so much for the update. Lets discuss the trial, mourn out with carolyn cooks. Shes a trial and jury consultant. Carolyn. Thank you so much for being with us. So the first two witnesses of wrapped both of them fairly close to donald trump, david pecker, a longtime friend, assisted him with these catch and kill stories. The National Enquirer, then his longtime assistant, rona graph, one of second and now third, were hearing from Bank Employee what do you think of the sequence of witnesses that the prosecution has called well you know, i i never really know what other People Strategy is in it could just be what apologize said, you have to lay the groundwork to get these documents in and these are the people you have to do it and im just speculating, of course, but im thinking maybe the prosecution is concerned that these are witnesses who have long time positive relationship, ships was Donald Trumps. So if youre trying to demonize donald trump and make him seem like hes guilty you might not want to close with witnesses who have a longterm positive relationship. And so even if you just look at run a graph who worked for him for 34 years thats almost an unheard of amount of loyalty that one person can give to another. If you think about most marriages, thats a really long time. And so they might be worried that her positive feelings for trump are going to eke out and they might want jurors to forget about that by the time its the jurys turned to deliberate that is fascinating perspective. I am curious about one part of her testimony. She was asked point blank. You dont want to be here on the Witness Stand, do you . And she said no . Prosecutors essentially had to compel her testimony. How do you think a jury proceeds that well, i mean, most people dont. Probably the jurors dont want to be there either. Possibly. They probably got over that. In most witnesses are subpoenaed i think jurors just understand and jurors or the common sense experts, so they probably understand how awkward it would be if you have a 34 year relationship and this persons your boss, and now youre subpoenaed and youre supposed to be quoteunquote helping in his prosecution. Thats just an awkward position to be in but the jurors are going to eat jurors are so good at reading between the lines and focusing on is this person telling the truth and what part of their testimony do i need to rely on to come to a decision . So ultimately, i dont think itll really sway people one way or another. Yeah its carolyn cook. Thank you so much for the perspective. Appreciate you being with us youre welcome of course, our special coverage of donald trump Hush Money Trial continues in just a moment when the jinx came out, i thought, oh, my god, when bob has a friend, he expects Blind Loyalty ravid surprise, surprise the future is not just going to happen. You have to make it and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea. And now becomes the future. A future where you grew a dream into a reality. Its waiting for you mere minutes away the future is nothing but power and its all yours. 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Im joined now by president ial historian Douglas Brinkley doug, thanks very much for joining us as we approach the end of this first week of testimony at trumps hush money case, whats your perspective on this historic trial . Well, first off, i think its been a good week. The trial seems to be moving smoothly. There hasnt been a lot of outside agitation unreasonably blocking streets with protest or anything trump seems to be taking the strategy of being bored, closing his eyes. That this is its just a witch hunt against election interference. He has predicted will use the courthouse steps any chance he get as i cant paint platform, but i dont think its going well for trump. I think the evidence seems to be very strong. What does one juror decide can make get difference, but this isnt helpful for trumps reelection campaign. Wolfe even if it affects, if, if a guilty plea comes in, he may is not going to go to jail. He he might have two. Itll be appeal till after the election, but its a big dent. I think it just shows you, i think the whole all trial, its just its sort of a can of worms. Its just a you of what kind of business person trump was and why he may not be fit for command to be back in the white house. And as you pointed out, trump has been blasting the charges against him outside the courtroom. Hes also possibly violated the judges gag order several times that was aimed to prevent him from attacking potential witnesses and others. What do you make of trumps rhetoric and the way hes carried himself in this case. I think its utterly despicable. Theres no former president in American History would have behaved in this sort of ridiculous and ugly fashion. Hes putting people at risk all the time and he doesnt care. Its really reckless behavior but in the end, this jurys going to make decision and were going to have to live with the result. I think its unfortunate that things keep getting that can keeps getting kicked down the road till after an election. But hence we have appeals. And if hes found guilty, he will do that. He may get a bounce out of milwaukee on july 15th, trump, even if hes convicted and hell be playing the martyr but in the end, anybody whos sitting in the middles, there, this guy just cant be back yet. You may not like biden, you may not like Third Party Candidates or the like, but trump just seems to be at this point, just so toxic that i dont know who wants to be in the neighborhood with them as you know, trump earlier suggested he would testify in his own defense. Now he says, im testify if necessary. But do you believe he will and just how unprecedented would that be for former president of the United States . Theodore roosevelt once had a couple of these miners deals where he went in, when he was in a court on a libel case that he was bringing. You knew hed read a book or find things, but weve never had anything like this. This is and as we know, very well, thats just one of trumps legal woes. Were dealing with somebody who behaves like a mafia kingpin or dictator, somebody within authoritarian bent but it is amazing how well he learned the sleazy sayyed of american tabloid industry. His whole life, he became big in the 80s trump became a household name and its always been one scam after another. But this time the interference within election Hush Money Payments, its not about the money of 130,000 and its not the fact that they were adult film stars. Its just the amount of sleeves that comes out of the man from maralago. Its hard to compare it to any other president in American History. Youd have to really start getting into a bag of of scoundrels or cons failed bizarre rep. Alfakhoura to understand this milieu that hes chosen to live in as his life, but hell say, ive been successful ive been pressing and youre not Douglas Brinkley . Doug is a professor of history at rice university, president essentialist doreen, thanks, douglas, very, very much. And well be right back beyonces new album is breaking records partisans of, Country Music, saying, this is not eight country this is not like, oh black people are getting into now weve been in Country Music gets to say, what country, what the south is about. Comey country beyond, say a nashvilles renaissance streaming exclusively on mac what do you think about these with like this, when its time for an update or complete remodel, rebirth is with you every step of the way where everything down to the front design and products to removal and installation. 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You hold your breath will they pay for your childs treatment this time . He will open the letter and find that youve been denied. Again, a month later, another letter arrived. Your premiums are going up again. They are banking record profits and still plan on increasing their race by 12 ane plan thats right for you at trust and well dot com the lead with jake tapper next on cnn we are back on the courthouse in manhattan for Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial. And paula reid is with us. Paula i dont Extensive Research on this case and preparation for covering it. And the guy thats on the stand right now, never heard him. Yeah. Uncovered this case for about seven years now, and i also have never heard of this young man gary pharaoh. He is on the stand. He clearly, according to his testimony, he has a banking relationship with Michael Cohen, he was assigned to cohens account because quote, cohen was known to be challenging mr. Fair. Apparently it was good with difficult clients but he insisted cohen is not difficult, but we havent gotten to really why he is on the stand. We dont know if this is gonna be about payments to Stormy Daniels or cohens home equity line. Its unclear, but stay tuned because we continue to get these lives updates from inside the court bit of a mystery late on a friday afternoon, paula reid. Thank you so much ive or sanchez in new york and im wolf blitzer here in washington. Much more of our specialty what coverage of the trial is coming up and ill be back in two hours in the situation room 6 00 p. M. Eastern. But the lead with jake tapper starts right now