Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

Do you want to make out or . Nope. I meant yes. Hes a bon garcon. I give amazing spongebaths. Can i get a room . [ chuckling ] chefs kiss. Doctors preferred better science, better results im mj lee at the white house, and this is cnn it is just pass 9 00 p. M. Here in new york, dramatic day 11 of the trump hush money trial. Now in the books, former trump adviser, communications director, and onetime close confidante, hope hicks reunited with the foreign president by a prosecution subpoena, or testimony establishing his awareness after he became president of how much he politically benefited by paying for Stormy Daniels. Silence before the 2016 election, whether her tears, which followed were related to her answer on that or just came from the accumulated intention of being on the stand, the emotion of the moment is impossible. Say whether the de was it significant, dramatic end to week three of this historic trial. That is hard to deny. Joining the panel for this, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig. Elie, we havent heard from you what stood out to you today. Well, here we are at roughly what iss to be about the mid point of this trial. Were about halfway through. I think if im the prosecutor and i like to think about things this way, i very satisfied with certain elements my case, but im also very worried about other elements. Heres what i think they have. Wrong clearly, donald trump knew about these hush money payments. I dont think theres any real question. Clearly, he wanted the money to be paid and its quite clear to me and hope hicks, i think solidified this today, that it was for a political reason. Yeah, there was a Family Concern too, but there also was a substantial political reason thats the good news the problem is theres nothing so far in this record as it stands now tying donald trump to the accounting behind the fight the financing of those payments. And thats the crime. And its starting to look increasingly like the only actual link theyre going to have showing that yes, donald trump knew the way we structured these reimbursements with all the checks to try to make it look like legal fees. It looks like the only link is going to be Michael Cohen and boy, ive never seen a witness take on more damage before he stepped in the stand, then Michael Cohen has taken on every single witness. Has said hes a horrible person. Hes a liar. I dont think the other piece of evidence is the actual checks that trumps sayyed. The checks help, but they dont answer all the questions. I mean, theres so many responses to that. Does he know exactly what hes paying for . Why is Michael Cohen extracting triple the amount that he paid, paid 130,000. He gets paid back over 400,000. What did Michael Cohen tell them whos going to be able to testify to that. I think the checks are helpful to the prosecution, but they dont get them to the finish line. So let me just explain how a Confidentiality Agreement works in the realworld, not what someone was running for president , but lets talk about a very real scenario. My phone rings, its some dude who cheat on his wife and now the woman says, i want money, or im telling you wife we say, you go get a lawyer. She gets a lot. So theres lawyer the lawyer were talking to each other. Theres a written i have them. They like reforms that its a confidence sheds gag order basically and were going to give you this amount of money over this amount of time and you cant say anything. And if you do this treble damages, so if we give you 1 million and you squeal, now how are you going to give us 3 million the husband doesnt write the check to heart the husband right. To check to my law firm. My law firm puts it in the Escrow Account and sometimes my legal fee is built in there. So hypothetically, if its 100 grand and my legal fee is 10,000, he writes uncheck to 110,000 and the law visited like Dollar Opportunity in cabins. It goes in my Escrow Account 10,000 goes into my operating account, and then i write out the jet from the Aidala Petunia and cabins il or account to her lawyer. He puts it in his Escrow Account and then he pays her. Thats all ethical, legal and theres nothing wrong with it. I think what the prosecution is going to say there was a difference is that donald trump was running for president and they falsified these documents in order to hide the fact that it was hush money. But again, i dont think the proof is there yet that he knew about this level of granular detail. The fact that he signed the check, thats not the crime. The bookkeeping is the crying. I wasnt suggesting that signing the check was the crime, but rather that it indicates that he understood that this was a repayment for the scheme that he was going to get 35,000 over the course of a period of time. I mean, i also think that just the idea that trump simply could have done what you suggested. I think we wouldnt really even be dealing with this but but Michael Cohen took out a loan on his house, paid in advance, waited until after the election to be repaid. I mean, there was an attempt to conceal this arrangement from the public. I think that is pretty clear based on just the timeline of things that happen. Wed gotten the full testimony now for the transcript a nackerud, youve been looking at anything stand out . Yeah. I mean, i think at the moment, if we look at 20 18, this is after Michael Cohen gives a New York Times a statement and says that he paid the uh, hundred and 30,000 without donald trump knowing and then hope hicks is testifying about the next day she talks a donald trump and that hes telling her about his, his conversation you should with Michael Cohen. So what she testifies to is this is when being questioned by the prosecutor, she said, i didnt know michael to be in especially charitable person um, or selfless person. Hes the kind of person who seeks credit. The prosecutor said, did mr. Trumps say anything else about this issue when he told you that michael made the payment . Just that he thought it was a generous some things to do and he was appreciative of the loyalty thats all i remember. The prosecutor says, did he say anything about the timing of the News Reporting regarding picks . Oh, he yes, he wanted to know how it was playing and just my thoughts and opinion about this story versus having the story a different kind of story before the campaign had michael not made that payment . And i think ms mr. Trumps opinion was that it was better to be dealing with it now, and that would have been bad to have had that story come out before the election. So this was the last thing that hope hicks testified when questioned by the prosecutor was what she said before the right. Before the crying. Right. This was the final thing that the prosecutors left the jury hearing her say which was shes saying she doesnt believe the story that Michael Cohen had advanced this money on his own, but also saying that trump was glad that he had to deal with this in 2018 because it would have been much worse to deal with it before the election. Kaitlan asked the former president about the access Hollywood Tape from the scene and town hall last year, i want to play a clip of that there was a Tape Deposition of view from october in it. You defended the comments that you made on that access Hollywood Tape about being able to grab women, how you want. Do you stand by those comments . I said if youre famous and rich or whatever, i said, but i said of your star you are and i said, women led you. I didnt say you grew up. I said women let you didnt use that word. But if you look, women led, you your hours in a deposition that our result should be a storable that are powerful they tend to do pretty well in a lot of different ways, okay and you would like me to take that back . I cant take it back because it happens to be true one, he said, grab them in the audio. Anyone who listened to it as not really private burden. Its not up for dispute to what im so struck by listening back to that now is the video they played in court today for the jury to hear was trump, his video that he put out on twitter after that video came out. I mean, there was the crisis moment as hope hicks testified today, a hurricane was expected to make landfall that night. No one in the news, she said, we dont even know where it made landfall or anything because people were only talking a hurricane, right . In a political sense, obviously. But donald trump it out that Video Apologizing and then in your debate question, he said he was embarrassed. That is language. He does not use anymore no matter what he does or what happens, he never says apologize. Hed never says hes embarrassed. And so it also speaks to how he is changed since 2016 and how he views himself through this political lins as someone who really in his view is untouchable. But in a deposition that wasnt taken not that long ago. He defended the common city made in the video. Well just to underscore that moment when this came out, i were at the time was working for the freedom caucus. Jim jordan was about to go to an event in ohio with mike pence and there was genuine and discussion that he may not go to the event that pence might not show up for the event there was basically a pause on all fronts, even within the rnc debate is this Campaign Even going to move forward . So it is important to remember that context because another bombshell like this, having come out at the time would have been incredibly significant. Well hope hicks who was asked about that on The Stand Today and she talked about paul ryan had an event in wisconsin that trump was supposed to go to and then she said it was sort of the prosecution said that he he turned trump down. She said, actually its more nuanced and she went on to explain that paul ryan reorganized it so that to deemphasize trump and maybe paul ryan wouldnt be there and then she says, trump decided not to go because he was insulted, i guess. And i believe Reince Priebus gotten to try to facilitate that so it wouldnt look like a clean break at the time, but thats thats accurate. I mean, this was a moment where steve bannon loves to tell the story, but they all sat around a Conference Table that people that she was describing who were there as they were in the middle of the debate prep when De Ferran Hold from the post emailed them to say, hey, weve got this really embarrassing audio tape of trump and they kinda went around the room and trump asked if they thought he should drop out and a lot of them, including Reince Priebus, said that they believed he should steve bannon, i believe as he characterizes, it was one of the only people who did not believe, but it was such a moment in the campaign where people did genuinely think trump may drop out of the race. Well, i was also central moment, i will say in the debate prep with they were doing debate prep at that same moment. We were doing debate prep as one of the moderators of that debate. And it suddenly as soon as it hit all our plans for what the first question was going to be. And like energy policy, right . It all it all went up. The window and then there was this whole day long drama Behind The Scenes of how do we ask it . We know exactly whats the wording going to be and whats the followup going to be and sort of planning that all out. I mean, i think what caitlin was saying about trump changing the way he talks about the access Hollywood Tape. That was such a seminal moment for him politically because he one and how do you not won. I think you know, obviously everything would have changed, but the lesson that trump learn from that, similarly from charlottesville when he made the statements about the charlottesville and then he tried to walk it back and ever since then, hes been denying that he ever said there were very fine people on both sides. Trump has learned the lesson, never to walk a thing back. Never ever to walk a thing back. And that has become his i just want to point out the first 30 minutes of that debate were i mean, i was on the stage and Martha Raddatz and nobody knew how this was going to play out. Nobody knew donald trump had held this Press Conference with bill clinton accusers. He had brought them to the debate hall they both walked out there. They didnt shake hands, they didnt shake hands with the moderators the tension, the molecules of the air on that said were charged in that room and i mean, ive done other debates before, never committee of the president ial debate, but primary debates. Ive never experienced a 20 minutes outside of a combat zone that was so charged and just almost anything could have had. And he started following her around on stage. I mean, the whole thing was it was just stunning to be a part of yeah. I mean, i remember i mean, i was covering Hillary Clinton at the time. The fact that he brought bill clintons accusers to that debate created this incredible circus atmosphere, but it also made people believed. That he, was just going to kind of bulldozer through this moment. I think it was kind of a mixed bag on the debate stage, but it was really was because ultimately the end result of all of this probably because there was not another woman or accuser who came forward the end result of all of this was that the access Hollywood Tape didnt sink him. And so he is totally emboldened by that experience. And every other experience that hes had subsequently that has left him empowered after these moments that wouldve killed anybody elses political career, its a revisionist history where hes see how he talked about that then and then look at how he was talking about one year ago. Hes saying thats actually not what i said. Well, you can hear him. The audio tape they played yesterday that Michael Cohen surreptitiously taped of him and donald trump discussing it. Trump posted today they cut off part of it that was actually very positive for him theres no evidence of that. His attorneys did not argue that in court. La as you know, and it was just a moment where he tries to seek to reframe things even when there is, their Document Evidence that there is an audio tape, he tries to basically reframe things and the question is how that plays. They argued this in front of the judge today about the evidence of the chain of custody of that tape and also that the prosecution is saying that a call came in, which is what sort of cut off that call in the defense is trying to raise questions about well, whats the evidence that a call came in and how do you determine that every defendant in history whose then caught on tape always maintains that as soon as that tape ended, something great for them its worth noting that was true much more head different harmful kaitlan just mentioned on the Access Hollywood story that he himself broke. Hes joining us next to the question of whether the former president has, again violated his gag order will show you what he posts on social media the last nine you get a former federal judges take on that as well. And later, given all the Trump World Turmoil that hope hicks were counted today and that we just talked about some perspective on how so despite all that, he still managed to become president , it could be, again, former republican congressman in january 6, Committee Member Adam Kinzinger joins us as Well Victims Of Mesothelioma and their families may be entitled to receive a cash award from the estimated 30 billion in Asbestos Trust Funds with over 50 billion awarded. We have over 30 years of experience and have successfully Recovered Hundreds of millions of dollars for thousands of clients, even if a family Family Member has passed due to mesothelioma or lung cancer. You may still be entitled to a cash award if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call wanting hundred 208 1721. Now how far would you go to control the fragrance in your home . 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Org how it really happen tomorrow at nine on cnn we were talking earlier about judge merchan and his demeanor in core, which is maintained despite significant challenges, you can say its rounding this trial, including defendant with his own social network. Hes already held them in Criminal Contempt for violating his gag order and is still weighing a second batch of alleged violations. And now theres more last night, defendant trump posted this clip from Steve Bannons podcast during which Andrew Giuliani attack the judges daughter the gag order that he is violating that according to the judge, that donald trump is violating, is just pointing out the fact that the judges daughter has profited to the tune of nine the million dollars. Thats right. Over 90 from adam shift, kamala harris, and other leftist joining the panel is former federal judge Shira Scheindlin do you think judge merchan would or should react to from posting that video . Well, it is another attack on the judges daughter and the judge has said, clearly thats off limits. So i think as usual, trump is going right up to the line and maybe just over that line, some days you sort of think hes baiting the judge and daring him to put them in jail sometimes you wonder if he wants that to help him with his victim hood argument. I really wonder about that it almost seems like he wants to show that the gag order does have an impact on him at all. I mean, trump just keeps its like hes like a toddler. Its like you he keeps pushing back on the restraint. You dont want to call a little fao on donald trump. He was he was in front of judge lewis kaplan. You can take the fifth, your honor so harsh so harsh on him and his attorney. So harsh. He was in front of judge engoron, who was so harsh on him and his Attorneys Roshan is not even in the league of those other two guy. He knows that this judge is letting his lawyers try their case, letting me do aggressive crossexaminations, letting them do their things. So he knows what hes saying because he now is a basis of comparison between two others. Judges who kick his butt and kicked his lawyer was also interesting to hear. Judge merchan this morning before the jury came in talking to donald trump and through todd blanche saying, i think your client has a misunderstanding. He absolutely has every right to testify, addressing the comments that trump had made about are not allowed to testify because of this ag order, which is just patently false and just ridiculous. I mean, Nobody Listening to judge merchan commonly and politely sort of informing donald trump, reminding of hit of his rights. I mean, just no one sitting there listening to that would would really believe that this guy is this rabid animal going after him, know and i think i think they were both acting to some extent, trump knew darn well, that he was permitted to testify. That was an act. And the judge carefully explaining it to him, knew that he already knew it. So both of them were making good record, so to speak, for their positions but it was all known the problem with that is also no one in that room thinks that, but thats a very limited amount of people, most of them reporters, 12 of them witnesses. Theres a whole atmosphere out there that does believe this judge is biased against donald trump because he tells him that and conservative media and his allies tell them that and they point to, i think like 30 bucks that the judge donated to democrats at some point. And so that is something that they feel like theyve been effective. And using that and pushing, putting that out there and as always with donald trump, he doesnt care whats actually real. Its the perception of it. Well and what i think is that those people will never change their mind anyway, doesnt matter what the truth is. Theyve made eight up their mind. So if i can show scheindlin picking up on caitlin point, judge merchan did donate a few 35 to antitrump. If you had a defendant in front of you, chris jones, and you would donated 35 to defeat chris jones for office a few years ago, would you recuse yourself . The real answer to is i would never have donated five. Thats a good point. Youre not supposed to not supposed broken that rule and donated 35 to defeat chris jones. And now chris jones is liberties at stake in front of you. Would you have recused i have said on record that i thought there was enough there that might have warranted or recusal and that was one of the facts that plus other reasons, i thought he should do. His team loved that trumps team love that you said that and you saw that on my show. And that was something they circulated and pushed out there because they believed it was i mean, they rarely see a retired judge helping make their case and they seized on that really, i know. But i wasnt helping anybody all i call it as i can, i just follow up on that. Theres an important distinction between the judge having a conflict and a judge being a good or lousy judge. I mean, i think judge merchan is doing an extraordinary job of managing this case, of running it, of giving a fair trial. I also think he should have recused i agree with judge scheindlin on that, but those are two separate issues. One is not an answer to the other i agree. I agree with you and i agree that he should have recused himself, but anderson, he did do the right thing he went to the committee on the judiciary, the state of new york, and he said, i made this donation. And my daughter works here. Can i i was assigned this case. Can i still handle the case . And that Committee Gave him the green light . I mean, based on what you know about hope hicks is testimony and the motion she showed me how impactful do you think she is i think a show of emotion by a witness is very impactful on a jury. But what the jury decides is, was it an act or was it genuine . And thats a big question. So what does the emotion mean . Because its not necessary . I mean, its open to interpretation, isnt true, but i think the first question is, is it real . Is a genuine because some witnesses put on a show and theyre just sort of acting at the end of the testimony. They kinda break down and hundred over. But if the if the jury thinks its real, i think they have a lot of sympathy for that and they tried to figure out what it means. And i thought would have meant here is that she had once like this guy, shed once been close to trump and it was hard for her to realize that she was being a witness against him. I think are really hurt her. And so that makes her very genuine witness and in the jurors are good to think about that all weekend yeah, thats right. I mean, thats my Sense Courtrooms are strange places, emotionally. They evoke odd emotions you talked earlier anderson about your experience as a witness only changes the way you see the trial. Actually be able to in this to remember again, which is why which they were cameras. Yeah, its almost hard to explain them in the first time i gave a closing, i dont think it was in front of you, your honor, is a different judge, but i give a closing in a major case. I almost felt myself crying in front of the jury. I dont know why to this de it easier guys are you guys . These guys these guys, these guys cry on command. They can just bring it up like method actors, didnt have anything to do with the facts of the case. It was just its dramatic crescendo of something youve been working on an invested in from whats nothing to do with the case. I held it back by the way i appreciate but it does evoke unexpected emotions were both grizzled veterans. It doesnt impact us most of my juries, i would talk to the juries, jurors after the end of the trial. And i say, what was really important . To what struck you and sometimes they would say witness so and so really got to me because of what she said and how she said it was always fascinating to talk to the jurors after the trial. I always talk to dry because i learned i learned so much what went well and what didnt work well no, i didnt believe that, but im thinking what i was on best wouldnt know it wasnt it was actually that one in your experience . I mean, for role of the lawyers here and judge, it. Do do jurors Pay Attention . I mean, is it is it sure. I mean, 90 the facts of the case that they learn or is it their judgment about the honesty and character of the person . Im testifying, i think to a great degree, its their judgment as to the credibility of witnesses. I think it does boil down to that because many cases, some witnesses say one thing, some say exactly the opposite. Who do you believe and it boils down, i think to a great degree to credibility. And so it boils down to a gut feeling. Yes based on what happens in that courtroom, its a very Human Process and we think of the jury as this model with the jury, but its 12 human beings when we learned about them, a couple of weeks ago, there a woman who is at it, professional man who to lawyers, but its just the human im also constantly but surprised by who juries believe in who they dont. Ive seen juries take the word of people way worse than Michael Cohen and returned convictions. And ive seen the opposite too. Ive seen juries reject testimony from people who i thought were great way. Were going to sit here for two hours like analyzing everything that whole pig stated in how she handed the microphone and our hair and i dont know if jurors are doing that. I think tomorrow theyre going to communions. Theyre going to do some gardening. Theyre going to foster a dog and, you know, kind of go on with their life and monday, theyll get back into the groove sometimes they just like some witnesses and take a disliked other witness and its visceral and we dont entire know work though when its kind of a mixed witness like hope hicks who made did well for the prosecution, but also for the defense. Where do you think that falls with the jury . I think that makes her for peer very credible because she didnt try to get him. She was trying to be fair and balanced, so that made her a credible witness. And each side can argue that because shes credible, you should believe this part scheindlin. Thank you. Its great to have you the rest day with this on The Stand Today, hope hicks revealed how trump world first learned about the access Hollywood Tape. Who broke it to her and the rest of the world were about to be joined by the reporter who broke that story to her directly in an email, a bureaucrat so this is the playoffs, great keybased trust each other. Were going to do a trust balls, stand up, trust what . You sent me up, doc told you a dummy how far would you go . Does that the ambiance of your space, try the air wick way with Airway Essential Myth infused with Natural Essential Oils, defile your low but with immersive fragrance for up to 40 hi days. Now thats a Breath Of Fresh Air. A heart attack. Do they have Life Insurance no. But we have Life Insurance john, im trying to find something we can afford fortunately, it only a few minutes, select boat found john a 500,000 policy for only 29 a month and his wife and a 500,000 policy for only 21 a month go to select quote. 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I learned thoughts on capitol hill and this october 7, 2016, the deadly Hurricane Matthew is battering america and then a different kind of storm hit so big it would knock the hurricane out of the news cycle, as was mentioned in court today. Hey, by hope hicks, that recollection from former Trump Campaign secretary hicks on the stand, referring to the infamous access Hollywood Tape walk in the jury through how you first learned about it and the crisis that it would spark Inside Trump World. This portion is the reason why i listen get automatically attracted to beautiful. I just kissing them. Its like a magnet i dont even when your star they let you do it. You can do anything, whatever you grabbing butts do anything like delegates these no, i dont want to go ahead. Male from. Then Washington Post reporter guy named David Fahrenthold seeking comment. It was shown in court today. The subject line of from him, the email was urgent Washington Post barry. The email contained a transcript of what was said on that access Hollywood Tape as what her first reaction was. Hicks replied, quote, i was very concerned. I was concerned, very concerned with his. Now is the reporter who broke that bombshell to tell her and the rest of the world, David Fahrenthold is now an Investigative Reporter with the New York Times. David has good to see you again. Im wondering what you made of hope hicks is testimony, particularly how your scoop on the access Hollywood Tape was dealt with Behind The Scenes, the campaign because im assuming this is probably the first time youve heard what it was like Inside Trump World at that time . Yeah, its a rare opportunity as a reporter to get this sort of see the other side of a day like this. So yeah, we sent them this transcript. These questions were around one 30 in the afternoon and all i knew at that point was the responses i got back from them, which was first this doesnt sound like mr. Trump sentence the video to be sure. And then after we send them the video so they then confirmed it was him today. It was real so interesting and sort of surreal to see all the steps that happened in between. We learned in court according to hope hicks, she went to trump, showed him the email from you and he said, well, that are told him about it and he said, well, that doesnt sound like me. Is that where she got the response to send to you saying it doesnt sound like mr. Trump must have been at the time when she said that. That doesnt sound like him i was like, i mean, after all we remember where this was the end of the 2016 campaign injury. It sounded exactly like him even in the written word yeah. Right. So i thought really she was saying that i can her own voice like, oh, this doesnt sound like the man i know now we know it was just trumps saying it doesnt sound like me and she just passed that on verbatim she was talking about the length of time that they had to respond. You send you reach out your one 30 i think she testified today that the story was published three 30, correct me if im wrong, what what how much time was there and at what point did you send her the tape we sent her as you saw, about one 30 we center that transcript. She comes comes back to i dont remember when, but at some point later and says it doesnt sound like him send us the tape. There was some debate internally on our end about whether we would send them tape and we decided we would always end of the tape it like three 50 and said, look, we are convinced this is him. We dont need you to confirm this is him on the tape. Were going to publish our story at 4 00 p. M. You can comment or you could not comment, but the story is going up then, and they called back right at four and said, okay, wait, its him right heres his excuse for white ball on the table he gets out of the bus. So i mean, its theres theres little question. Its actually him its yeah. What else do it out to about her testimony today . Well, i laughed at the her initial sort of email to the blast email to the people in the Trump Campaign asking, what should i do about this . Shes like, well, here are some options and one of our options was denied and i deny which i love that because that was obviously the way the Trump Campaign worked. And 2016 was just no matter what was happening happening. And ive been dealing with them for months. No matter what proof you had, they didnt care if it was right. I didnt want to figure out if you were right. I just wanted to deny it. It was funny for me to see that inaction, that first reaction was, lets not even find out if its true. Maybe we should just say it isnt just the night without learning more the in now trump world is sort of trying to downplay the impact of this tape, of this moment for everybody who lived through it, they remember it. How do you remember the impact this story had once you published it . And there have been part of anything like it. So we published it about four in the afternoon on friday, the Washington Post had sort of a little internal systems have met. It was like a look like a speedometer to show how much traffic, how many people would read your story. And it was like a bugs bunny moment. It literally spun around like the it had been read all over the world. Ive never been part of the story that had that kind of impact. Now, obviously, i didnt write the story thinking, whoa, were going to sink trumps campaign. And when it was out, i didnt think okay, i have sunk trumps campaign. There was another month left to go, but it may obviously had a profound effect to the point that even paul ryan, very prominent republicans were walking away from trump refusing to be seen with trump by the end of that de yeah. Listen, i mean, you joined the Trump White House later. Was there a ghost or a shadow from that access Hollywood Tape still sort of around the west wing . Yeah, very much so. So i joined in the end of 2017, is the Vice President s Press Secretary in shortly after as when the Karen Mcdougal story became public early 2018. So it was sort of there was just it felt like something you cant get away from the problems that you had with women accusers coming forward, E Jean Carroll was even part of the discussion at that time. So it was always sort of underlying. But the thing i want to underscores, were talking about this in 2024 republicans kinda made peace with us in 2016. I cant explain why. I cant defend it, but most of them said, you know, its obviously him on that tape. You can see it with your own eyes, hear with their own ears and so i kind of wonder what this case theres the jury and then theres the public opinion. I dont think many republicans are going to care about these additional facts that were learning. Its stunning to say, realizing that in 2016, thats nearly sung kim and people were ready to walk away. Thats not where im republican evangelicals yeah, republicans. There are more firmly with him now, even as more facts have come out, even as he is now been found liable in a civil suit around sexual assault. And you know what the thinking and trump world does is basically because there are people jason miller is one of the Campaign Aides who is in that room in the courtroom with donald trump and has been there a lot. He was one of the ones that hope hicks emailed that de and copied him on just to speak to the people who have been around him for a long time. And there is this thinking in trump world that if they could survive Access Hollywood, they could survive anything. And nothing phases them even when theres a big story thats damaging as much as it did that day. And i just think it speaks to how they handle things and the denied deny statement that hope hicks out. That was have reflux action. They still do that. I will report something completely factual that maybe has even that damaging to them. Its just a fact and theyll say, do not ill fake news denial, fake news. And then we prove that its correct, but thats just their instinct always is true, denied factual. That is a great point. Sorry, just quickly because i remember being on Air Force One with hope hicks and mid2020 in a story that i thought was shocking is about trumps taxes. Play 30 questions from the New York Times. I went and said, weve got to get this to the press as meant this is a huge story and shes like, this is nothing you dont, youve not seen anything you werent there in 2016, we survived Access Hollywood. That is the mindset that was their barometer. And if you survive to Everything Else would be fine. Yeah. And its changed all of republican politics since then. I mean, every sort of trumpian candidate has to have that same mindset that every piece of adversity they come across, they have to just barrel right through it. I do think though there is a little bit of Revisionist History In Trump World A Lot Of trump, a little being generous here, but especially after those that last six weeks of that campaign, it wasnt just Access Hollywood i mean, a lot of things happen. There was the Anthony Weiner stuff, there was the laptop with Hillary Clinton. There were other factors that were at play there, and not to mention that, but the election was extremely close. It wasnt like trump won in a landslide, so there is this tendency in trump world to overinterpret their ability to survive access . Hollywood, not taking into consideration all of the other elements that went into what happened in 2016. But trump still lives with that sort of god complex where hes like, im the guy who did what no one else could ever do before. And i did it just short shear force a vote because the American People didnt care. I thank yes, some americans did not care, but i also think there were a lot of other factors that went into it as david, i mean, youre reporting its easy to forget this because things so much has happened over the last couple of years, but there was also all those fables about Donald Trumps charity and his supportive veterans and giving millions and millions of dollars to veterans your reporting showed that just was not the case. Its right one of the really interesting things about 20 16 was learning it. Its so much of what trump had said about his Charitable Giving. This sort of bruce wayne persona. He had was included a lot of brags about his Charitable Giving was wrong i mean, even in the course of the campaign, he has campaigned, said hed given out 1 million out of his own pockets to veterans to veterans charities, and it turned out to be completely ally. He hadnt given 1 and we would use things like youd use his charities money to buy giant portraits of himself i like that through stories because youve learned so much about trump by viewing out in private, just the same with the Access Hollywood showed how he talked in private, the nonprofit story short how he acted in private but in our charitable he was or wasnt when no one was looking yeah. The defense was able to keep the jury from seeing the access Hollywood Tape. Does that really matter . And given how much theyd heard about it, im sure remembers, judge merchan gets the credit for the jury not hearing that. Given the defense asked, but he granted that it does as a defense attorney, you want to crawl under the table. What you hear your clients voice saying something nasty and theres nothing you can do. You can cross examine it. You cant. So yes, i think it does matter even though theyve heard the words, its different when they hear them coming out of your clients i think this aspect of the prosecutions case has come in clear and straw hong and straightforward, which is when that tape hit, it was a bombshell in the campaign. They were panicked and they couldnt afford to have the Stormy Daniels allegations come out and thats why they made the payment and thats an important but its not the whole case, but its an important part of the case that part strong Dummy Variable youre reporting always just extraordinary. So thank you so much appreciate it. Thanks for being with us. Have a good weekend. Coming up. Were going to discuss the first time that hope hicks testified about her former boss for the former member of the january 6 committee tc my. 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Committee used her recorded testimony in its final hearing to demonstrate that in the words of the congresswoman so lauft grin quote, trump was told repeatedly by his campaign advisers, government officials, and others that there was no evidence to support his claims of election fraud. Take a look i was becoming increasingly concerned that we, were damaging we were damaging his legacy. What did the president say in response to what you just described . He said something along the lines of you know, nobody will care about my legacy if i lose so that wont matter. The only thing that matters is is winning were joined now by a member of the january 6 committee, former republican congressman Adam Kinzinger. Reason the author of renegade defending democracy and liberty and are divided country. Carson i would how would you describe hope hicks is credibility and her willingness to be candid to the january 6 committee because its interesting to compare her testimony to your committee versus your testimony today. Yeah look i mean, my impression of her was going as far as i know honest. Not necessarily eager to come in front of committee . Not probably not eager to go in front of this courtroom but those are duty and does so honestly, and that was the impression i got was she wasnt really hiding the thing. You had to ask the questions. Obviously, shes not going to volunteer it but that she had real concern for donald trump, as you mentioned, that clip, she was concerned about his legacy at one point after january 6, there were text messages. I forget who she sent them to where she said we all look like domestic terrorists now. So shes a pretty same person in a pretty insane world. And unfortunately shes been caught up in a lot of this. I mean, donald trump, she was in the room basically anywhere he was. And unfortunately, shes having testified not before, just our committee now in front of this court, but i think shes had to come in and talk to the Intel Committee in the past two. So theres kinda gotten caught up in all of this. You were sitting republican member of congress during the fall of 2016 when the access Hollywood Tape was revealed obviously sent shockwaves through your party how surreal is it after all, the Political Legal drama in the past eight years, i hope hicks was on the Witness Stand and in this particular trial today, amid all the drama thats still pending i mean, look, its all surreal. I still i mean, i still cant even believe donald trump was president to be honest with you and when that hit, i remember i had said even before that that i couldnt support donald trump for president because of what he had made about the fallen soldier well, juror and had gone after the fallen soldier at the i think it was at the convention, but yeah, i mean, sitting there when this tape came out, i mean, i had a number of colleagues that then officially in public said they cant support donald trump. And i can tell you there was a lot of discussion. There was a lot of hope that trump would then back out of the campaign that somehow there would be the party be able to put somebody else in there probably mike pence. And i remember then specifically when he said im not getting out, im going to stay in this race. The discussion among other members of congress and a republicans are like, well, hes definitely going to lose now. But as you all had mentioned in the prior our segment, there was so much that happened even after that that it kinda washed under the bus and the komi and Hillary Clinton thing was the last thing people were thinking of. Yeah, i want to bring in the panel here as well. This trial is moving quite fast. It really is. Im going to im going to say you can make memorial day plans. I think were going to have a Verdict By Memorial Daily going to go out hello, im here. Yeah. Its moving quickly. I mean, lets think about whats left. Michael cohens definitely going to take the stand and i think thats a week. I think thats four days. David pecker was twoandahalf days, but ill do that. Cohen will be on the stand for four days. Yeah including direct and crossexamination. But other than Michael Cohen. Okay. Stormy daniels is a maybe Karen Mcdougals or maybe Kellyanne Conway is or maybe trading tending towards no less litter saying unlikely. How long are they going to be mean hope hicks was three hours today, maybe a little more. Youll probably have a few more of these document custodian type witnesses, the interns and the das investigators, but this is moving neither sayyed is dragging their feet. The direct exams are as they should be direct and focus Defense Lawyers sometimes like to drag out these endless crossexaminations, but both todd, blanche, and Emil Bove Air or former prosecutors, they just have gotten right to the point this is moving quickly and efficiently. I did something today that theyve the trump team has never done, which is stipulate, which basically agreed that the sky is blue and the prosecutors and the defense both agree. And so that is the sense within the teams that i also spoke with, maybe two to three more weeks of this and what its going to look like. I think a lot of it relies on if they do have to continue bringing witnesses who are verifying that recordings are real and text are real, truth, social post are real. So whenever its worth, i was in court wednesday, im pretty highprofile case and the judge journe it to friday, may 31st, i believe. And we were walking out and i started the clerk at everyones scurrying up to the bench and say, and then they call us back in and they said well, we think theres gonna be another big case still going on here. Now this is just Court Offices in clerks guessing theyre not lawyers guessing, but we they had they made his move the date from friday until wednesday when its a trump day off, which is right after memorial day. So my friend here may not be totally off you have to plan for that. Well, obviously do not have trump on that witness list that you mentioned. I assume hes not taking the stand. I mean, now hes already bailing out brahes and hes doing it exactly the way we predicted on this show. Hes going to say as hes already started to do look, they bear the burden of proof. My lawyers have demolished their witnesses so thoroughly that theres no need for me to take the stand and tactically i mean, that to me is the exact right color. Im sure you would be begging him not to take the staggering. I would handcuff him this is in many ways, i think for the general public, one of the least important trump cases, and i think seeing this and even learning some new information from hope hicks under oath, underscores why january 6, a case was so much public scrutiny and things that people actually want to see resolution. Its so important that it be tried before the election. Theres so much new information that could come out having folks who has been wrapped edison to testify have to under oath and i dont think thats like a congressman me. Do you think the outcome of this trial is going to matter politically when were not i think it will have an impact. I dont think its going to necessarily be a decisive impact, but if hes guilty and hes guilty of a felony, it will always say convicted felon donald trump. And its going to around the margins in an election frankly, where i mean, it could be decided by a few thousand votes in a few states, its certainly not going to help him. And it may hurt him just a little bit. And it said the same thing when he was impeached. He was indicted. I mean, he is now the Presumptive Republican nominee. People werent didnt believe he could get here i think there is a lot of skepticism. I dont think we know the political impact because i dont think the trial has been good for them. They went into it thinking, you know, its a no known we already had all of this out there and hes still won the election. But two obvious point. He also lost in 2020 and its not guaranteed. They dont. The numbers when youve been looking at the poles, which are just a snapshot had been pretty close between trump and biden and theyve become more, even as weve gotten closer to the summer. And so it we dont know. Yeah. We dont and we may not know in general because between now and when this trial ends and where the election is approximately 50,000 lifetimes so many things can happen between now and then however anytime the voters are reminded of all of the things that donald trump comes with that is generally not a good thing for donald trump. He has really benefited from being able to have some space between his last presidency and now, and thats actually what been the hardest thing for the Biden Campaign to deal with or to thank everybody on the panel. Thank you for spending friday night with us. 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