Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

Crossexamination aimed at undermining her credibility into some embarrassing moments for the former president. At one point saying that if she were making up her story about sex with donald trump, quote, i would have written it to be a lot better today also saw testimony from Trump Organization bookkeeper about how closely he monitors the checks he writes detailing the attention he paid two amounts considerably smaller than 35,000 checks. He wrote two Michael Cohen the day ended with judge juan merchan and rejecting another trump motion for for mistrial and denying his request to modify the gag order. He is under so we can talk about Stormy Daniels and capping it all off. Stormy daniels tweet this evening saying this about the former president , quote, real men respond to testimony by being sworn in and taking the stand in court. Oh, wait never mind. Back of the panel joining us conservative lawyer george conway, who was in court today what were your takeaways on my takeaway. Was that the continued crossexamination of Stormy Daniels was a complete disaster and a fiasco for the defense. I mean as a rabbit hole that didnt need to go what is just it just went on and on and didnt she didnt have anything. Honore you gotta confine crosses two basically a few short leinz of stuff thats good. They didnt do that i think what happened was they had a day off and necklaces of very good lawyer by reputation. I can you can tell just by the way, she conducted it as well, she knows how to crossexamine a witness and knows how to ask questions. But she was shes her client is a Narcissistic Sociopath and who is obsessed with proving the lie that he didnt have anything to do with Stormy Daniels. And so they went off on this whole tangent on, but basically, it doesnt it done in a lot. The defenses position should be it doesnt really matter whether that happened or not, because even if it whereas Extortion Money it was Extortion Money, it still could be a crime, but were trying to prove something that happened, didnt happen is just its just counterproductive. And was it just got to The Point Of Ridiculousness where shes asking stormy about basically a map of south lake tahoe, nevada to figure out whether or not she was walking in or hell one block or two. And where did he took a cab . It was she just garbage and it was embarrassing. And to the point where if you control the witness by keeping your cross simple and short, you can control the witness but the longer you go, the more the witness can pop off at and this woman is way smarter than knockout necklaces, chunk client, and she got some really could let me i thought i saw jurors at some point trying to do what i was trying to do, which were suppressing laughter at some at some of the shots that stormy got into got into the record. It was just it was just a complete waste of time. The good news for the defense is thats not what this case is going to be about in the at the end of the day the process. Let me defense. Made the mistake, also, a putting this all into make put up just stipulated to were not going to contest what happened yet in south lake tahoe, and were just going to focus the jury in on the fact of whether or not there is proof that donald trump knew about the records that we claim were flipped, that the Prosecution Claims were falsified. Now, lets leave apart the fact that he signed some of this stuff with a backup next lets do it and you know what carefully read it. It was 35,000 to his lawyers, hadnt really done that much. Four lets leave that aside. Thats what this issue that if he gets off, thats how hes going to get off. Bye. By leaving this issue open about what happened in that hotel room. They invited the prosecution to dump all the stuff in the record, then they fail to object to a lot some of the stuff that should have they should have objected to like the bit about whether or not he wore a condom. Let me the judge said that he didnt think that should have gone in, but there was no objection thing about the amount of money and what how closely he pays attention to that. It didnt get anywhere near as much attention as the Stormy Daniels crossexamination, but Madeline Western Out who got on the stand it was the last witness today and shell be back on the stand tomorrow morning. She was trumps gatekeeper inside the white house and it basically was the liaison who was his Executive Assistant at Trump Organization, trump tower. They trained her of how to basically do that out of the white house. And there was one moment that the prosecution clearly brought up where there was an email between her and rhona graff, trumps assistant here in trump tower about buying a frame a frame from tiffanys next door because they didnt have any empty ones for a picture of trumps mother. They wanted to put and rhona graff responded in the email and said, okay, but the frames are about 650 with a 10 discount. Can you check with them if thats how much he wants to spend . This is why donald trump is the president of the United States of america. And he was rhona, who knows him better than anyone, essentially was still checking to see if that was too much money for him to spend don a frame and for her to expense it. And i think that is where were going to see this go tomorrow that they are trying to get to the fact that he was a penny pinch or any paid attention to where every cent went and we paid this guy 35,000 a month and he has a reputation around this town of Stiffing Law Firms like you could, you could, you could make a long list on ellies notepad there records, the recording that Michael Cohen secretly taped of his client trump, does seem interested in the details of payments. I mean, hes talking about i didnt catch yeah. Can we do we do it in catch shirts . Let me ask you this question. Is it seems to me that there is a lot of evidence that trump in general was very scrupulous about how he was spending his money. And in general, looked at documents very carefully. Before he signed them, but theres not any evidence specifically that he looked at these documents. Do you think thats enough for it let me there is evidence he signed those checks with the backup but thats not evidence that thats not are they separate georgie evidence. That its clear how you feel about President Trump. Okay. I dont have a feeling one way or the other. Im looking this as a trial attorney. Okay. And im looking at his object deeply as i can as a former prosecutor and as a current Criminal Defense Attorney what theres a big difference . Yes, theres evidence that Donald Trumps sign the checks. Ive said that thats not the crime theres kaitlan. Your point about the council told on the checks europe, your point about the frame. Its clear that he watches his money but thats not the crime. Its that second leap of how does it then get written down back in new york city wheres it listed . How is it listed . Is it listed as reimbursements to Michael Cohen or is it legal fetal Michael Cohen there has been no proof whatsoever that donald trump had anything to do with how its listed on the ledger in trump tower . Can i try reframe this for a second. Ill pose a question to your george. If the prosecution stands up tomorrow and says, your honor, at this point, we rest. Can they possibly when they would have to dismiss the case not necessarily. Am i think theres enough circumstantial evidence that they could refer it, but thanks. Need to put some more on why i so you know, so it would be i agree with arthur, i think if the prosecution rested tomorrow, it doesnt go to the jury. So they need something from Michael Cohen, right . Yeah. Theyre going to need what do you think they need from Michael Cohen . Basically is going to explain the missing link that he needs to come meeting in the oval office in 2018 where they basically discussed how to do this. And i think i think theyre gonna do across. On michael that is going to attempt to be brutal the way they attempted to brutalize Stormy Daniels today and a lot of people have low expectations for that. But the fact that matter is, given everything that they appointed two so far from the commencement of the hush of a catchandkill scheme to the end, Everything Everything like just fell off my mic just hold it up what michael has been is going to say has basically been precarity paraded. So its gonna be that, but it is going to be the key moment. I think thats exactly right. And that bridges the gap, but i think were seeing here which is there has to be that last link. And Michael Cohens going to say its that meeting in the oval office in 2017, were going to hear about they actually set the foundation for that today because the woman who testified had an email, so showing that this meeting was happening doesnt tell us why thats what was said. But the jury knows that meeting happened to Michael Cohens testimony about that im sorry. Go ahead and ask this is going to be a dumb question, but the fact that these payments were split up over the course of a year to me seems like one of the most fishy elements of this whole scheme. If he were just going to reimburse Michael Cohen, he could have just written a check that money was there. But the fact that they split it up, it seems to strongly suggest they were trying to make it seem like something that it was not. Ive retainer that was being paid over the course of a long period of time right. And the gross up like, well, yeah, i mean, i mean, you know, got this regardless of the amount, the means to me, i think the prosecution hasnt explained this or touched on this, but that seems strongly suggestive of a scheme to make it seem like something that it was not. And thats exactly the point. Its not enough for the prosecution to show donald trump signed these checks. He knew they were intended to reimburse Michael Cohen for the hush money payments. They have to show that this was part of an effort to falsify, to falsely structure these labels and the pulldown menu as lawyer fees, Attorney Fees in order to cover up the fact that there really how does but how does Michael Cohen . And help on that question . Well, look at the end of the day whats a reasonable doubt . A reasonable doubt has to be that there has to be some plausible Alternative Explanation for all these things that happened at the end of the day. Its going to be i think its really hard for the jury to believe that donald trump didnt know that these payments were before george at the end of the day . Yeah. And experienced lawyer of your magnitude, you know what you would save if you try this case, you know what you would say. The jury. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, one of the luckiest jerrys around because you got to meet mr. Reasonable doubt, so im walking here. You. So ill take this then if theres any human being on the planet earth, that should be his pictures should be net to the definition reasonable doubt. Its Michael Cohen. And if you have a crossexamined mike, why . A lie or being a fraud, i paint shut opposed to the the defendants credibility. If no, as he takes the stand is not on trial he not because hes been saying all sorts of stuff to show any line in lying and no always no, no, no, but it is all about Michael Cohen, just abby asked me a question, why within two months ago, he got in trouble Michael Cohen for submitting fake cases to a judge when he answers probation why to a federal guy. That was something that he lied about, that has something to do with what hes saying on credibility troy is credibility not going to destroy skeletal everybody is. So guys spent christmas and oldest, everyone should know thats really interrupt this really intellectual debate that were having. But can i ask you a question about the Michael Cohen thing because we have heard every thing about his credibility. We will when he takes the stand, which we expect next week Madeline Western is there to testify today and tomorrow about a meeting where theres an email. Shes asking for Michael Cohen descend his Social Security numbers, date of birth, everything you need to get into the white house. Theres the date of when that meeting is we actually have this soundbite of Michael Cohen when hes testifying before the House Oversight committee and 2018 about that meeting at the white house. And essentially what happened picture. This scene in february of 20171 month into his presidency im visiting President Trump in the oval office for the first time. And its truly inspiring he showing me all around and pointing to different paintings and he says to me something to the effect of dont worry michael, youre january and february reimbursement checks are coming. They were fedexed from new york and it takes a while for that to get through the white house system. As he promised i received the first check for the reimbursement of 70,000 not long thereafter okay. So we know that the meeting setup, we have someone whos testifying about the fedex and how that worked, and youve Michael Cohen testifying that. So its not like its just his word alone. There is other kaitlan proved is that he got checks from michael whos allowed to agree reimburse so prove that donald trump donald trump confirm that he was fully aware that he was being really distracting a crime . Yeah. But thats being reimbursed again, the other side of tables doing the perfect Defense Lawyer thing, which is basically a chop up all bit by bit. Were making i think thats entirely fair because yes, i think it is quite its going to be very clear to the jury that these this money was a reimbursement. It wasnt a legal fee but the corporate records being falsified, how do you tie trump to the corporate records being falsified . That i think is still problematic because he knew thats what thats what was going on. That it was being done on his behalf many signing these things that say that theyre legal or in he knew and hes getting and its grossed up, but he couldnt you think he didnt figure out that . Wait a minute. This was 130,000 and im writing checks for 35,000 a month i mean hes a dumb guy, but hes not that Michael Cohen publicly said that trump knew that these that it was being filed as legal expense. Not that im aware of. Michael cohen has publicly said 1 million times that trump is guilty, as can be. And i think this is important one were talking about this meeting, right . But, but he has he hasnt gotten to the debt level that legal specimen, but hes at a podcast is written a book called revenge. You would think if that was right, something he was going to testify to, he would have mentioned and this is exactly the point were going to get into a meeting here. We know the meeting happened. Theres documentation of that, but what happened and what was said is going to entirely come down to Michael Cohens word and its really not a question for the jury. Whos a bigger liar . Michael cohen or donald trump prosecutors have the burden. And if the jury hears Michael Cohens account of what happened, including what he just said there and decides we dont trust this guy Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. Theres no number on it, but a very high standard, then they have the right to say not guilty. I think its not a trump versus cohen. Its do we trust cohen to that level of reasonable . I think arthur is making a good point about the dropdown menu, but i still have questions about whether thats really the standard. I mean, if any if there are kingpins who are convicted of crimes that involve things that they dont physically have to do themselves. I mean do they. Have to do the dropdown menu themselves to be guilty of that night. So i guess where do we go . What is between doing the dropdown menu yourself and what the prosecutors would he have known that theres a. Limited whether he knows its a dropdown menu, but theres a limited number of ways to code and expense. I mean, if hes been a Penny Picture and monitored expenses and fedex packages, what do you have known . Oh, yeah. There are six 30 you can code it as legal legal issue. Lead prosecutor number one, the project got to prove that, but one more thing, anderson theres another piece of this. Its not just a bookkeeping. They then have to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt it was done to commit another crime. And we havent what evidence is there been so far articulating what crime . It is allegedly when i was in quarternary, i heard theyre going to call a federal Election Law Expert or maybe a state Election Law Expert. So theres, theres the Bookkeeping Products and then whats the next ship contribution isnt that what it is . But its, but no, because came out of his own money . No. No. No. The federal Election Campaign act, it would be illegal if i were running if i were running for something or other and i wanted to contribute money to my campaign and kaitlan fronted the money and then i reimbursed her. And then i didnt disclose it. Id go to jail. Thats a violation. Thats a violation. Its not hard so its kind its good to have you. Thank you. Kinda up next more from the full Trial Transcript just out also in light of all weve just been saying in so many ways about Michael Cohen here, what he is saying for himself tonight about the prospect of taking the stand and later form Deputy Assistant attorney general, harry litman joins us. His thoughts from his time the court today a new group this assignment in my bag like a bunch of groceries, alice cheese and greece just contemplate freedom. You cant take your eyes off the new 2024 Jeep Wrangler in gladiator theres only one right now during cheap four by four season to 2,000 bonus cash allowance on the 2024 cheap gladiator visit jeep. Com, and hurry to your local jeep dealer today when i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be, but here i am being me. Keep being you and ask her Health Care Provider about the number one prescribed Hiv Treatment. But harvey but dharavi is a complete one thing so once a day treatment used for hiv and many people, whether youre 18 or any, with one small pill, pick derby fights, hiv to help you get to undetectable and stay there. Whether youre just starting or replacing your current treatment. Research shows that taking it Hiv Treatment as prescribed and getting and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. 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Speaking today on the midas touch law podcast, cohen said he expects it to be called to the san next week and sounded happy to testify im kinda looking forward to it because again, cant be finished with something unless you started, right. Its kinda like an entrepreneurial mindset. You can be in, and unless you willing to get in it. And so there we go sooner, or this thing starts, the sooner this thing finishes. And that way i can yeah, this too shall pass will be looking ahead to that until the moment comes and no doubt, looking back on it for a long time as well, right now, john berman is back with more from the proceedings today. You guys were talking about how there has been a lot of evidence and a lot of testimony, but how closely donald trump looks at finances, looks at things about money and madeline west, or how who was his white house assist in gatekeeper was asked about an exchange that she had over an invoice they came in front of her and this is the testimony from the prosecutor, rebecca mangold, asking the questions, whats the total amount of the invoice west or has says 6,974. Mangold says, looking at how the handwriting towards the top, do you know whose handwriting that is western says, i believe thats rhona graffs, thats trumps Organization Assistant main goal says, can you read whats written in ms Grass Writing and then buster, he says, dear mr. President , if winged foot, which is a golf club in western new york, will allow me to suspend your membership for for eight years. Do you want me to look into it or do you want me to continue paying annual dues and the food minimum . I believe thats just rg the initials. Do you see the handwriting below that Western House says yes. Who says that was there. He says thats the president. Mangles says, do you know what type of pen was used for the president s handwriting . Was her house says, it looks to be a sharpie. We for sharpie all over the testimony so far the main goal says, whats written below the note in mr. Trumps handwriting west or how it says, hey, mangold says, is their handwriting Something Else written in the president s and then Western House says, yes asap. Okay. In other words, yes. Pay the 6,000 dues to winged foot asap. Okay. So again, this is donald trump being paying very close attention to his golf dues with the food privileges. And they showed the document in the courtroom. It actually said yes, pay. Okay. Yeah. Itd been making clear one, shes checking. Do still want to pay this membership while youre president of the United States. And he says, yes but then also its when madeline was drought testifies about the other financial conversation, what the frame that she had and so i dont know where theyre going with this tomorrow. Its going to be much more about Michael Cohen and his appearances at the white else i assume, but they are clearly trying to get it what they could even see from rhona graffs emails and her concern about his spending are the urine the court for the beginning of her testimony, madeline, what what did you think of her . While theyve the first question was, are you here because you want to be here, are you here under subpoena . And she made it clear that she was there on to subpoena. And it was schumanns pier to be a particularly nervous, it was very simple questions was about fedex is and how the checks went back and forth. And if there was one missing and she made it clear there were checks, he refused to sign are not told her they just would go come back to her unsigned. My understanding was in the afternoon. She was very gracious ive talked a lot about him and millennia or at least touched upon and how he would call her and he was she paints a picture of him being a doting husband, which i dont really know if thats an accurate statement, but thats what she said. How before you got that he was going on marine one, he would call are and look out the window and wave and then she just broke out crying, i think because it looked that witnessed. Weve spoken about this that Witness Stand is i didnt testify one time against a client who took a phone number and put it on my name. So i had written representing them while im representing him. This is all Public Record while representing him, he he takes out a phone number and puts it on the Arthur Aidala and hes making like criminal calls. That was in my name and i had to go and testify against my own client record, which i tried know what i was really nervous. I have no problem in many to you i was really hard testifying. And then what youre testifying, get someone who clearly shes fond of, and you look around that room and its packed with people. Yeah. Its a motion. This is not but iraqi relevant to this particular case, but but it is interesting to me that bringing up melania and the family, i mean, madeline was fired from the white house because she was trashing other members of the trump family to the media when at a dinner. So the baggage and one of the reasons she feels so bad is because as shes sad publicly, she feels bad that she had a moment of poor judgment. And in the process said a lot of bad things about the trump family. Now, with trumps sitting in front of her she had an opportunity. It looks like she took it to say some nice things about trump, to say some nice things about his relationship with his wife and so on and so forth. But im what im so interested in about these financial things is they have done a great job of showing how meticulous trump is about even small expenditures from someone who claims to be a billionaire. But the thing that i keep coming back to is did trumps know how these expenditures were characterized on the corporate records because thats the crime in this case. And thats not covered by that testing. Theres nothing in any and i kinda stack a transcripts now my office like its tall as i am, which is six, four none of it gets to the dad. But what you do see is what theyre leading up to, which is Michael Cohen who is going to have to answer to all this. And even in the mantle of western had testimony it. Was setting the table for Michael Cohen. Theres the exchange you showed his testimony before congress, but they talk about an Email Exchange that western out had with cohen prior to this February 2017 meeting, the prosecutor says, whats the subject line of this email . And this is an email change with Michael Cohen, west or how it says wednesday meeting, man gold. Can you please read the content of the email to the jury was harassed, says yes michael were confirmed for four 30 on wednesday. What i need from you is the following full names and appears on your id, date of birth, Social Security number, us citizen, yes or no, border us, yes or no. Current city and state of residence . Thanks. Madeline prosecutor says, do you recall why you were sending this email . And then westeros as mr. Cohen was coming in to meet with the president mangold says, do you recall seeing him when he came to visit western not specifically. Mangold says, did this visit ultimately occur west or house says, yes. So so much so what the prosecution has been doing over the last three weeks is Pre Corroborating Michael Cohen when he gets on that standard, they want the jury to think, oh, i remember this. I recognize this. We saw a document about this. We heard another piece of testimony about this even if its a small thing like this, now they know, yes, that meeting absolutely happens. So when Michael Cohen gets up and says, what what happened in that meeting, theyll go okay, at least hes not completely fabricating that there was an Oval Office Meeting we used to call it oak tree corroboration as prosecutors, meaning if theres a murder scene and someone mentioned oh, yeah, it was next to an oak tree. I dont go take a photo of the oak tree it doesnt prove that the murder happened, but it can help support your witnesses just on a small detail. It can help prop them up. Thats what theyre bracing for i think its going to come down to win michael gone because i agree with everything hes saying, at least saying its going to come down to like, honestly, three sentences in that meeting. So because just to be clear, its gonna be i think has been proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. Hes tight with money. He signed those checks. He knew what where they were going to, what they were four its going to come down to Michael Cohen saying, and i said to him, im just going to register them as Legal Expenses and not for real. Okay. And trump. Itll say trump not in a trump said, okay. And then itll say, and by the way, you know, were doing this. We dont forget we did this. So that you would win the election or its going to come down to like sentences, not whether the checks resign. I mean, thats unfair. Theres a whole universe of whitman theres more to it than just like what you made the point a minute ago, say it wasnt Michael Cohen putting in the writing down, right now. But what bobby said was how high or how low, right . Does the hierarchy have to be . Think, if trump just says file it as Legal Expenses even though its not i think thats enough that someone else he directs someone else to do it is to me that the prosecution has to establish why didnt they do it the other way, right. Like, what is the other way . And why didnt they choose that path . To me . The most obvious other way is just to give Michael Cohen the money, say that it was a reimbursement for anything it literally could be for anything they didnt do it that way. The question is, why that question has not been answered by the prosecution. In addition to them not answering the question of not only why did they do it that way, but did trump recognized that there was a choice made about how to do it, and that they chose the illegal way, essentially john berman, thanks very much coming up another moment from the transcript that theres time from judge merchan, his final words to the former president s attorneys about how they open the door to Stormy Daniels detailed account whenever time with Donald Trump Russia for trying to spy on us we were spying on them i miss frank this is a war, but secret war, secrets and spies, a nuclear game premier sunday, june 2, that ten on cna and then when you have Chronic Kidney Disease there are places youd like to be like here and here not so much here far seeker reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis our sega can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal dehydration, urinary tract, or genital Yeast Infection and low blood sugar. 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Some people taking new tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts for weight upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur weve clear skin. Girls day out is a good day create great work with freelancers fiber. Im Caitlin Polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn henry, the judge has final word from that exchange with the defense, which ended todays hearing about why he said prosecutors had a right to have Stormy Daniels testified about an alleged sexual encounter for the former president back in 2006, quoting from judge merchan. And the fact that you went after her right on Opening Statements attacking whether attacking your claim that they had never had sex you didnt attack that there was a falsification of business records. You didnt attack any of the other elements of the offense. You said mike client denies that there was ever a sexual encounter. Again, as i said before, right off the bat, that puts your clients word against ms daniels word and that in my mind, allows the people to do what they can to rehabilitate aid her, and to corroborate her story. Your motion for mistrial is denied. Joining us now is former us attorney Deputy Assistant attorney general, harry litman, who has been in the courtroom during the trial. What was the dynamic life between the judge and the defense team in those tanno 15 minutes. Yeah. Accord. It was not like a standard legal argument. It wasnt low key and academic. It bristled and there was a sort of dynamism to it that you dont normally have, which by the way, he has not in previous messages to the defense table. I mean, when i was there last week, he he said to blanche that was the de after trump i had claimed that he wasnt allowed to testify in a very calm way. He said, let me just maybe your client is missing forum. Let me remind him. Its his total equal, right. He was bending over backwards to become, this is a different tenor i think thats right. Its not as if he was haranguing him, but it was definitely very sort of pitch tie in he attack the professionalism of nicholls. He said, i cant trust blanche, but it was if he let them both speak their piece and then it was almost as if youd already crafted an opinion that he could do. He said id gone back and read the transcripts youre wrong about this, but he really it was fairly blistering and he wasnt simply denying on the merits, but actually a sailing. The lawyers for trying to think did not objecting more by the defense was a misstep. Other trump team for sure. And it was one of the things he actually cited again, i mean, this was the point that seem to have no answer. Theyve made this probably because trump insists on it. The big dispute was there any sex at all and when they do that and opening merchans point was, that means all these messy details as they called them the other ones messy details are credibility for, for someone in Stormy Daniels its position. In other words, you have to let her explain. So the jury can evaluate overall the truth of the story thats been so put it at. What was your perception of the crossexamination by nicholas . Yeah. All in all i thought it was not so effective. You really look for control and christmas on cross and not only did she take a lot of xi landed a couple of jabs, but again, because of this dynamic can make that theyve said it never happened. She needed a Knockout Plants and came nowhere near that. I thought. And then i think whats a little over aggressive and the jury perceived it in particular, when she basically implied since youre a porn star, you how could you possibly be cowed by a 60 yearold billionaire looming over you . It seemed almost insulting in that way. So i thought that she took a lot of chant lead Weather Channel lot and got got hit with it and her very last question isnt it a fact that you are making no and thats the end. So as opposed to sort of leading the jury to think that result in its own, she went for broke a lot and it was a mistake or youve been in the courtroom whos winning . What the d is one, because the basic dynamic, they have really from pecker, very good choice for starters drawn the whole narrative we had today. It was one of five pretty big daytoday. The you normally one, two things happen in accord, thereby five or six pretty big things. And one of them, a lot of people did and even notice, but came in through stormy. His admission in the stormy sooth that he did in fact reimburse cohen, right. So i mean, thats a pretty big one. Where did they go from here . The weisselberg writing. So weisselberg and cohen do it together. They were they freelancing the basic story . I think is strong there may be Technical Details and as you know, a couple of lawyers on the jury about stitching up the precise intent with some of the precise 34 pieces of paper they always had that problem, but the bottom of the narrative, in part because of the stakes theyve drawn in never happened with stormy and emphasizing that i think the das winning. Somebody remind me, i mean, i should know this why isnt Allen Weisselberg testified a couple of minutes won. One, hes in prison. I know but if someone as you can i think. And often if thats the case, then judges will say, dont bother, you, dont bring someone in. I know what happens in movies, but you dont bring a guy in and it gets up in front of the variance as i take the fifth and they dont know what hes going to say if its clear you all by myself so hes not going to counter these concepts. You may say donald trump knew nothing about this. I was the bookkeeper for 35 wherever in 40 years, i was the one who classified it that way. Thats why he wouldnt be special problem. They have rhona graff who they went through quickly, keith schiller. Are we going to see him . He comes in a lot today. There are some people who are super loyal to trump and they are shying away from the defense call weisselberg. Sure. Well they talk about lot of cross examination, but he would also probably take the fifth again. I mean, regardless of who calls him he doesnt unless he wanted from a solid and then get indicted again, its me. I yes, thats possible. But it seems like if you were going to take the fifth in this subject you are going to take the fifth in this subject, but maybe not, maybe not useless. Do hes not on the defense would look at the fence, hasnt called anyone yet, and they dont have to have someone on their witness list. The only thing i want to say about stormys crossexamination, first of all, jeffrey mentioned this a long time ago. I do think theyre trying to please trump the lawyers are thats a Balancing Act. But youve got to guide play and youll lot of money to be his lawyer and he wants it out there that that did not happen. Susan nechele is leading with her chin. Theyd put up a piece of paper saying you signed a document saying you never had sex with donald trump, right . Yes, i did. That was a lie, right . Right. So there was right. But the lie they need is that whole story is concocted. Thats the thing because i agree with you, but i think normally even with a very big shot, lawyers say, heres how its going to be you shut up now and listen to me. Thats what his what do you what do you do . Youve represented some big egos, big personalities. Im sure theres been times bag you back then. I mean, i you back im like, listen, bro, are you a long time . Im got to trust me on this and we can talk to i mean, ive done it. Will talk to three other lawyers if they disagree with me, well do it your way. Okay. But so several times on tuesday, trump was nudging Susan Nechele has to get up and object and its are do it at least twice after he nudged her and today, the whole criticism from the judge was, why didnt you object more . I mean, it was trump win obviously. Clearly was a mistake. Look, we all make. We always talk about trump influencing his attorneys and trust me, he does and its incredibly difficult to be at trump attorney weve talked to many of the former ones, but but he was the one urging her to object more. She was not objecting more and maybe what ellie said before. It also like, you dont wanna make it look like youre hiding from the jury like, oh, my gosh, shes got something we dont want anyone here, so its a Balancing Act harry litman. Thank you. Everybody back. I head. 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Com, everyone sees meanwhile at a vrbo when other Vacation Rentals are just for likes, try one, youll actually like did you know sling has your favorite News Programs were just 40 a month my favorite news for just 40 a month. My favorite for just 40 a news for 40 a month sling lets you do that. Im pete mundane at Reagan National airport. This is cnn joining the former president in court today, one of his key allies on the hill from his home state of floridas and or rick scott of potential Vice President ial contender. Here he is defending trump the courthouse by talking about several whom trump cannot mention himself under his gag order. What he is going through is just despicable lets look at who involved, whos involved in doing this the lead prosecutor was number three that biden the Biden Justice department the judges daughter is a political operative the lead prosecutors wife is significant if a donor to democrats during your panel now former Trump White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin interesting to see scott their kind of singing the song that trump on some just i mean, it was so thirsty. Listen, yes, he said he loved to be considered as a Vice President central contender. He also has aspirations to replace Mitch Mcconnell is the leader in the senate, both things that obviously require him being in Donald Trumps good, gracious graces, weve seen this before. Its off the vague ramaswamy show up at another courthouse, Marjorie Taylor greene. Its a way to endure themselves to trump. He remembers people who are with him at his low points. Mark meadows, for example, 2016 after access hollywood, when people were thinking about walking away from donald trump mark meadows, his wife, and other congressional spouses went on the Campaign Trail to say, be with this guy, despite this tape, he never forgot it. He kept jim jordan close to me, kept mark meadows close because they remember that. So donald trump will take note of this. Hes going to, hes going to appreciate us and it was voting today that there they were casting votes on important bills today priority theres potato, potato how much do you think the aggressive crossexamination actually pleased donald trump today . I think it probably, please trump, but i think it really hurt the defense. I think this juxtaposition where you have maddie west or howd up and theyre talking about oh, you were 28, you made some mistakes but then attacking Stormy Daniels, who was 27 at the time that this encounter with donald trump took place. The jury can piece that together and see that there is such different treatment for these two women there is the hard part of being serving donald trump. The client is that often catering to his instincts and what he wants to see is actually totally unhelpful to the case youre trying to win for him. And i think that they went went away too far today. Its funny answer. I can just say a guest, its been now on cnn retired judge george grosso, who comes on my radio show with me every night. Hes been the court every day and just shows you how people react differently. He said, on my radio show tonight, today was the best day for the defense. That combination of attacking stormy and then the Secretary Bragging about the trump family and how wonderful he said theyve never had a de so consistently. Blink would positive stuff for trump. Im not saying hes right, but it just shows you how you dont know what jurors well and to be clear, i do think it was a good Knotty Western it was incredibly helpful to donald trump today that there was a piece of her testimony in particular about the fallout from the access Hollywood Tape that really seems she was trying to suggest that trump himself was not all that worried about it, all the worry was over at the rnc whether that maybe ilsa you can speak to that, but whether that is true or not that that undercut the prosecutions argument that trump was the one who is was part of the panic about how this was going to i mean, he apologized on video that night. I think we forget that he did apologize because now that seems like something you would never do. He certainly was concerned and i think hope hicks alluded to it or at least those closest to him were they were trying to craft this statement, maddie was at the rnc, so she wasnt part of these conversations. But there was an acknowledgment that this was a very, very real problem. The Vice President ial candidate, mike pence, was very concerned. I hope hicks. Testified she seemed. And you have to attorneys, they prepare their clients and maddie very likely watched her pyxis testimony and can take get some takeaway from not and i think in some ways came more prepared to be a little bit more effusively of donald trump in ways that hope maybe didnt quite as much leaning into his relationship with melania and she was the real boss. What a great boss he was giving her these opportunities. And then if this key point that he actually was unbothered by the access Hollywood Tape its interesting to hear, listen to talk about Donald Trumps political and pr instincts, which are good. I mean, a lot of times he defies conventional wisdom, but hes gotten pretty far by following his instinct, but legal and courtroom instincts are a little bit of a different creation. Its has to be much more strategic, much more tactical. I wonder if hes his own worst enemy when it comes to this, when hes pushing his lawyers to do things that could be taken both ways. But i mean, my reads certainly were destructive to his defense he may be about to find out, i guess well see what im telling stories out of school, but i think please do my educational, educated guess is the one of the reasons why joe taka pina is not his lawyer in that courtroom is because joe and i were in the das office together. I know very well. Hes a brilliant lawyer. Hes a great strategist in that courtroom and say anything you want those juries love them but joe joes not going to take anything his client has never going to tell him what to do, never i maybe why joe is not in that courtroom and they really used a lot of trumps tactics against him today with Stormy Daniels, i mean, she was the embodiment of that several ways. One, when it came to just his attacks on her and her attacks on him, they were trying to use her post about him that were derogatory as a way to discredit her. And she said, okay, well, i was just responding to him. I mean, he calls her horse face. He calls routed rallies of his. They also were saying, well, you were just trying to make money off of this. Youve got this candle, youve got this tshirt, donald trump himself has raised so much money off of his indictments as well. And so that was an interesting part of this to see how trumps own tactics that he is used for years were being used against him. And the crossexamination. And i think that the key figures for the proven the second half of this case are going to be Stormy Daniels and then Michael Cohen, who have been just bloodied up this entire trial. I think she was much better defending herself today, but their you know, their honesty called into question and then contrasting that with hope hicks and maddie west or how the public didnt see them. But two women who present so buttoned up, they speak well, their authoritative, but then theyre also emotional. Theyre also crying over there, caring and love for donald trump and loyalty to him. Its a very interesting Juxtapose Position that i could see resonating with a jury. I could see them saying, look at these professional women who look up to him, admire him despite all the horrible things weve heard about him, they still want to be with him. And then adjust the juxtaposition to that. Is that if the jury believes that that same guy is the guy who was in lake tahoe with Stormy Daniels that really undercuts a lot of it. I mean, stormy herself undercuts trumps credibility as a sympathetic figure. The fact that she exists in this context, the fact that there is even a debate over whether they had sex and that hotel room and he was 60 and she was 27 if anybody on the jury believes that its gonna be really hard for them to buy the sob stories about how great of a boss he was to these other two women. Thanks everyone in the news continues after this break my Mental Health was better, but im movements called Teeny Tardive Dyskinesia started disrupting like that td felt embarrassing i felt like disconnecting i asked my doctor about treating my td and learned about in grad the greta is clinically proven for reducing td. Most people saw results in just two weeks, people taking aggressive can stay on most Mental Health meds. 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If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with ms ophelie oma call us now id front next shockwaves Around The World after President Biden told us hell cut off weapons to israel if rafah isnt they did. And now the israeli Prime Minister is speaking out. No sign of backing down. And former israeli Prime Minister enough Tally Bennett is outfront tonight. Also breaking thank trump on a tirade, lashing out at the judge on the same day that Stormy Daniels clashes with trumps attorney in the courtroom and a surprise move. Prosecutors in the Hush Money Case now opting not to put former playmate Playboy Playmate Karen Mcdougal on the stand. How come . Lets go out front and good evening. Im Erin Burnett Outfront tonight. Shockwaves. President bidens threat to stop providing weapons to israel if israel launches an invasion into rafahs Populous Center is reverberating across the globe tonight israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was firing back at biden after his exclusive interview with us last night lot more. If we need to stand alone, we will stand alone. I have said that if necessary, we will fight with our fingernails stand alone. No signth