Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20240622

Vineyard. You can join the conversation. 202 7488001 for republicans. 202 7488000 for democrats. If you are an independent, 202 7458002. You can also join us, if you live in missouri, we have aligned set aside especially for you. That number is 202 7488003. End us a tweet at cspanwj join us on facebook, facebook. Com cspan. Or be will take your emails, journal cspan. Org. Thanks very much for being with us. The front page of the New York Times focusing on ferguson, one year later. An indelible blackandwhite line is the headline. The headline. Article points out that one year after the Fatal Shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed black man in ferguson, missouri unleashing a series of debates in ferguson, missouri, and around the country. Host that story this morning, front page in the New York Times. On and cnn. Com also focusing ferguson, one year later. Of august 9, 2014 have become a polarizing topic, split down generational and racial lines on whether the details in the case why did the reaction that came after. [video clip] the think that in department, there are individuals that dont understand the community, but in fact, there have been some issues with respect to raise problems. There has been. I think the Police Department is doing a good job, has done a good job. Host that from cnn. The new police chief in ferguson, missouri. Steve gingrich is joining us on the phone, he has been following this story for st. Louis postdispatch. You were working late last night in march is tons get place in the area. What were you saying . What were they telling you . Guest the mood is much different than last year. Compared to what we would does what we witnessed last august, this is the age of aquarius. People are still angry, but looking for solutions. Last night, i covered a protest in ferguson itself, about 200 people. Most were peaceful. Unfortunately, at the end of the evening, there was an unrelated shooting. Otherwise, it was a very peaceful and pretty constructive day. Host another headline is getting a fair amount of attention this sunday morning, the headline from the of 21gton post, the name have been shot since ferguson. They list their names and ages. Why is the still happening . Opinion, this is ore. Coming to the f Michael Browns case broke open the fruit, if you will. Also, the advent of social media , smartphones that can record some of these incidents. I think were becoming more of what people in the knowanamerican community has been going on for decades and tickets decades and decades. Host the underlying issue, not just Race Relations, but the disparity between black and white when it comes to the poverty rate in this country. In are certainly say that st. Louis, the New York Times alludes to that this morning. What can you tell us . Guest that story is true. This touches on some a different issues. And sort of cuts through the surface there. The Education System in st. Louis not just st. Louis, but everywhere there are two and almost three tiers of Public School systems in the area. The court system is welldocumented. There are two sets of justices for all intensive purposes. Economically, that sections in where the Unemployment Rate is 50 , if not more. If you were there last summer, up,have seen hands dont shoot, was the model, a symbol of something much larger. Host i want to share with you one tweet. Robert says, it is sad, these riots turned the cities into ghost towns. What have you seen one year later . Guest we have seen huge reforms in the court system already. The Police Department is still largely a white police force. There is a black seas. It is an economic corridor where the cleanup is still beginning. There and see lots where businesses used to stand. There is some a criminal progress. I think it is important to know that what happen in ferguson, economically, socially, education, every aspect this has been decades in the making. Nothing can turnaround around in 12 months. There have been steps made, but a lot of steps arent fast enough. I heard that last night. People are baby in the same place as they were one year ago, or an inch or two above that. Impatience, which is understandable. Host were speaking with steve gingrich, of the st. Louis postdispatch. There is a look at ferguson, missouri this year and last year. Final question for you, whats next for you in the story moving ahead in the days forward . Continuere going to to cover the story. This is our backyard. We are reporters taking a indepth look at the court system, which is one of the real problems of what occurred in ferguson last summer. Gain, the School System the school that Michael Brown attended is in huge trouble. There is a disparity in learning their. We have some excellent stories last year. Technically there were kids that who hadnt seen a real teacher alert anything for an entire year. We will stand top of these underlying issues right now. Thats the big story as far as the st. Louis postdispatch is concerned. Host we will look for your story online. Inis the front page story the newspapers. Thank you for being with us. From you. One year after ferguson, your thoughts on what we saw with the killing of Michael Brown. As the Washington Post points out, 24 other victims at the hands of Police Officers. Rick is first in new york city. Caller good morning. Thank you for cspan. You know, in new york city here, and everywhere i have been, i have me many Wonderful Police officers. I just want to premise that. Those few cops out there that are just not being professional when they pull someone over for a silly thing like no turn light, or a break l for and drawing a weapon minor things like that, were they pulled the person over, and the person has a bad attitude lose their professional manner, and become, i dont know, mentally crazed, pulling people out of their cars, join weapons its insanity. For are treating people traffic and fractions as if they are some kind of international terrorists. I dont understand. There was something in the news recently about the highspeed Police Chases causing more deaths. Now that these municipalities are looking at the liability. Ituation i think it is a National Problem that we have. Theres no question that there re Wonderful Police officers across the country. Theres no question about that. These few bad apples that are creating this problem for the smallest infractions is just insanity. Thank you for cspan. Thank you for your call. Jan responding to your comment. She has this point, maybe some. Hould not be cops period next is jim from fort lauderdale, florida. Caller i dont have any problem with what the previous caller had to say. Disappointed that the tock community is unwilling speak about and take into of all the facts liberties cases. Even if it shows that the victim did something wrong that may have precipitated what happened. Going all the way back to the where theyse team were accused of rape being stripper, who was later proven i think she is in jail now. Roven to have lied but, in the process, probably ruined the lives of all of the men that she slandered, accusing them of rape, we find out in the sanderson da, where the young man attacked the night watchman. It was reported that he was completely innocent, and we have witnesses that say he was on top of the night watchman willing wailing away. Lets have a ledger of things. Lets have a ledger of what the policeman did wrong, and what the victim did wrong. Lets not just talk about this saying, with black people, and white. The other thing, you talk about how segregated it is in st. Louis. You think white people will let black people into their neighborhood when they see all of these reactions, opinions, anger, and crime. They will be welcoming black people into their community . White people are watching, what do you expect them to do. Thank you. Host the bbc is also reporting on this with the question, why do u. S. Police keep killing unarmed black men . The story is Available Online, pointing out that the debts of garner,brown, eric ofddie gray are the result racism and excessive violence. Many manner say that ferguson could happen to us that story politico. Com. Little zach is up next. Good morning. Are you with us . We will move on to jeffrey, joining us from ohio. Good morning. Democrats line. Caller yes. To me it is a sad occasion that racialdealing with, this issue. Just listening to that last caller, it makes me very very pessimistic about the future. Host why is that . By you pessimistic . Look at the analogy black people, do you think white their would want them in community . Its like me saying, do you think we want white people in our community . I just think things are not going to change. I just dont see a future in this country as far as Race Relations. I think a lot of people have corners, different have different opinions, and our steadfast in them. People are making crazy analogies. Just hearing that guy say that shiver. Iver made me im a little older, ive seen a lot of things over the years, ive seen progress in Race Relations, by dont see a solving this problem anytime in the near future. Dont think we have the will i dont really know who is controlling this country. I think money boys are putting and itnst one another, will keep putting us down at the bottom, and keep making money. Thats the way it is. I dont really foresee a change. The thing that this guy really doesnt understand is that every time that black person does something, he will be locked up for. A lot of things that happened to black people, no one is ever held accountable. Host that is clearly part of the debate the high crime rate and the height incarceration rate among Young African men, compared to young white men. Caller thats my point. Of a black person does something, he will be held. Ccountable, and put in jail whatever society determines his punishment will be, he will receive it. A lot of the white guys, they do the same thing, and they are not held accountable. Whethat is the gist of the problem. Not who has done it, or how many people on this site or that site have done it, it is how are we going to treat each other. I just dont see this problem ever being solved. I know it is sad to say it, but that is the way of the world. The call. Ks for by the way, we have aligned set aside if you live in missouri, that number is 202 7488003. We welcome our listeners on cspan radio, heard nationwide on xm. We are focusing on ferguson, buffet, one year later. This is from the miami herald. On the 20th anniversary of the , a speech atarch church. This time, organizers are hoping to attract a diverse crosssection of people including natives and hispanics else. Ting the justiceor , the 2016 candidates offered no plan to address racism and racists outcomes in the nation. Deborah from missouri. Caller am i on . Host you sure are. Go ahead. Caller im sorry. I have a couple of comments, if i may take time to make more than one comment. I and 61 years old not the need to know that, but i have seen a lot in my lifetime, and i have seen a lot of change. However, regarding Police Brutality, i have experienced weref Police Officers that so i dont know what word to use. They were so forceful in situations, when they shouldnt had been, like when i something stolen from my apartment in my apartment complex, and they got forceful with me, and attacked me, instead of attacking, or going after the person who had stolen from me. I guess the point i am trying to make is and that is not the only incident i went through i had an incident in chicago, im originally from chicago, and there are Police Officers that should it be Police Officers. I have heard stories, sure. Those are two experiences i have had. Im not saying that there are not Police Officers that dont discriminate against blacks. It happens. Ihere is discrimination dont know. With the last caller, the, he made about the never been any change, sometimes i wonder if there ever will be change. 1960s, i remember the first time i felt hatred was mind you, this was in the Civil Rights Movement was from a black lady. I held the door open for her at a store, and she said, thats right, whitey, hold the door open for me to ago i asked my mom, why did she say that . I was friends with everyone, i didnt get it. The point i am trying to make is that all people matter. Host let me take it one step further. Youre referring to earlier comments from previous callers. What would it take to change the whole issue of Race Relations in this country . Going tot is not change, but what would it take if it were to change . Caller i didnt say its not going to, i sent, i wonder if its going to. Host let me ask you the same question. What would it take to change . Gosh, i wish i knew. I brought a girl home from school when i was in grade school, who happen to be black, and i was told to get in the house immediately, and i know it was because she was black. It didnt mean anything to me, she was my friend. The color of her skin to that matter, but my family let me start here. Im part native american, but most people would look at me and say, she is white, so she is against us a lot of people would say that. My own family, they are so discouraged or discriminatory. It has been beaten in our heads, nationalityay what you are. Say you are irish or english, not native america. Its a stigma. People were told, dont admit that you are native american, but it is still going on today. Host i will stop you there. We will move on, by appreciate you weighing in. We are talking about ferguson what youre later. If youre interested, the Pew Research Center has looked at the divide between life and. Hites, saying it runs deep serving as asurvey backdrop is how differently the issue is viewed by blacks and whites. Nathan is next from pennsylvania, republican line. Good morning. Caller i dont know where to start. Its a mess. First of all, as i said once before, there is such a disconnect from reality. One person called up and is black livest how dont matter. When a white guy is killed by blacks, which happens all the time when a white guy is shot by a black cop, of course that number from ferguson, i think about 300 something blacks were shot, and the same statistic came up that 500 blacks. Ere shot by no one watches in the street for a white guy. Heres no sense of solidarity when something happens to white person, people really just yawn. I could list hundreds of examples of egregious crimes that happened against whites all the time. We all know that. Statistics show that. Talk about the asian paradox. Have you ever noticed that we have a racist society and racist system have you ever noticed, a lot of people that i work from irom india or pakistan dated a vietnamese go for six years, i happen to be a germanamerican. They are incredibly i hate to say the word, but incredibly hardworking, quiet, reserved. Were severalre hundred businesses that were korean and indian that were attacked in west baltimore, and destroyed by blacks. They targeted them because of their race. Vietnamese dont go into the streets. Koreans dont go into the streets. They dont protest. They go to work. Life. Ust go through they are incredibly successful. Caucasiansearn now. They come here from sex slave camps, and one generation later, their child is a doctor. Racism ofome not just white people, which is very subtle, they overcome the actual out right hatred from blacks. By vietnamese my vietnamese gopher talked about her treatment by blacks when she arrived in this country. Blacks are very busy this public are very xenophobia towards them and others. Will be displaced. Billionll be 130 americans in this country. Blacks and have to deal with them. Blacks born today will have to say to the mexican people, what about selma, what about reparations . The people from venezuela and the people from cambodia will laugh at them. Host natalie has this point police are trained to think everyone is guilty, it will take everyone to stop thinking that black is a dirty word. Bernie sanders disrupted by protesters from black lives matter. The story is Available Online at nbc. Com. Here is just part of what happened, courtesy of nbc news. [video clip] matter k lives black lives matter black lives matter [applause] [indiscernible] from yesterday in seattle, washington, courtesy of nbc news. Bernie sanders issued a statement saying that he was disappointed that two people disrupted a rally, attended by thousands. I was especially disappointed on criminal Justice Reform and the need to fight racism, there is no one who is more willing to fight than me. Two protesters disrupted the thet, and sanders left stage. We will continue with your phone calls. Eric is next. Good morning. Caller good morning. I was just listening to that gentleman that was talking about his vietnamese gopher. Girlfriend. Just to listen to this guy he is praising the people who came over, and they stick together. He is onesided. He was saying that black people are lazy, they dont want to do this. Thats not true. You look around, and right in your car, and you will see the difference in neighborhoods. Matter. If your way, your neighborhood will be ok. If you are black, you go into a black neighborhood, and people sell drugs out right. Go into georgetown and do this. It is different how we are treated. It bothers me that people are blind to the fact there are that people in all races. If you are black, you are held to a different standard. Host eric from washington, d. C. , thank you for the call. Richard rogers has the Streets Police body cams while on end of story . Nd a magazine, a look at the Koch Brothers and their role in 2016. The story is also Available Online at time. Com. Also this morning, front page of the Washington Post, not only focusing on ferguson, missouri, but also donald trump, causing a. Ecoil in the gop inside the Washington Post is an opinion piece just how long will trumps rival treat him. S a sideshow host donald trump tweedy out yesterday that he will make appearances on three of the sunday morning programs including this week, and face the nation. All of the sunday shows can be heard on cspan radio. Janice is next from independence, missouri, hometown of harry truman. Good morning. Caller good morning, steve. I think the last time i call we were talking about president ial libraries. Host i remember that in fact. Caller we are clear across the state from ferguson, but i think that the Race Relations have really taken a downward turn in the last several years. To me, when ferguson first happened, i heard some voices were needing to act more responsible, and cops be more careful. Nowadays, it feels like it is all on the cops. Im on a thing on facebook for frontline. They apparently are going to do a story on ferguson. Seenomments that i have say that they leave out the part where he was robbing a store and holding the guy up off the ground. Going to telly one side of the story, it only feeds the problem. I have one more comment about a comments made earlier about police chasing. I think the reason they do it more now is because the police hesitant to do it. I think there is more running away because they know the police dont want to chase them. Who is that someone running, of any race, im not talking about anyone in particular. There have been horrible crashes , but i think that is just because theres so much less respect for the law. Host thank you for the call from independence, missouri. David has this point the girls from black lives matter, protest ine to the seattle yesterday, did a disservice to their cause. Pittsburgh,from pennsylvania, democrats line. Ferguson, one year later, what are your thoughts . , good morning. We will move on to reggie, joining us from melbourne, florida. Caller good morning. Where to begin . Why are we commemorating an beingwhere a person was fought because he had brought store . Re robbed a are you going to show any headlines where robert, criminal, are used about Michael Brown . That is what happened. He was found not guilty, no by the justice department. If they couldnt find anything, you know it didnt happen. I get, we are not commemorating anything. What we are simply doing is having a discussion, and showing you how this story is unfolding in newspapers around the country. Really, the larger debate, as the New York Times points out this morning is on the underlying issues that are driving some of these race issues because of poverty in america, the height came crim high crime rate of them africanamericans. Lets go to mark in charleston, west virginia, independent line. Caller good morning. Thanks for having me. For every one is of these killings that make big headlines nationaly, there are literally 10,000, maybe more, all you have to do is go to youtube and download the videos of lesser incidents of Police Brutality. There are so many videos now with the widespread use of cell phone cameras. You can literally download, i dont know one time i spent eight hours, i was sick with the flu, and literally spent eight hours watching nothing but video after video of Police Brutality than thedegrees killings you hear about. I was wantingnt to make is im a physicians assistant, and theres no doubt in my mind that we need to test these police for a legal steroid use illegal steroid use, which would explain scientifically some, not all, of their aggressive behavior. , a last point i want to make couple of colors back, he made a really valid point other races have not had to go through what blacks have had to go through. To compare asians that come over successfully, thats really a ridiculous point. Had to no way theyve suffer the races of that blacks have had to suffer in this country. I dont knownt why those people were heckling Bernie Sanders. He is the only one talking about these issues. He is the only ones sayin sayint needs to be said. Other Political Parties use abortion, the middleclass hes the only one whose telling people how to use those tools to divide us. Why these people were heckling Bernie Sanders makes no sense at all to me. Thats all i needed to say. Call. Thank you for the again, we getting your comment. Nline at facebook. Com cspan tell us what using about ferguson, one year later. One viewer, john says, its racism, one year later. A justicey, Department Official was talking about the issue of the incarceration rate of africanamerican men and policing tactics of offices around the country. Here is more from the cspan video library. [video clip] to often we make the debate about good offices and that officers. That does come into play, but as someone said earlier, it is not just about good offices of that officers. We have systems that will ensure that good offices have bad outcomes. The system was designed to have the outcome of a disparity of incarceration of men of color. Operational systems, policies, and practices that exist today. Host ronald davis at an event sponsored by the center for american progress. Claiborne is up next from kansas city, missouri. Caller good morning. I just wanted to make the point that individuals have had bad experiences with one another, but what were talking about here with Michael Brown and other incidences, and many more that we have addressed, but when the institution, the political institution, the judicial institution, the Police System has engage indiscriminately conduct, thats different. You dont expect your professionals to acted discriminatory ways because they are trained. That is different than if someone calls me a name on the street, thats an individual. Professionals to act differently. Thats my point. Int next up is alexis wilmington, north carolina. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im really pleased with the last few colors. They have identified much of what is going on. The physicians assistant muchred why there was so so many issues surrounding the police in general. I worked sidebyside with the, many years ago, and only difference between them then and now is body cameras. Im so glad that its finally coming to the forefront. The person who mentioned the person hired with all the good and serve to protect soon get squashed because. Heres so much corruption there is no redress, and no chance of airing on the right. White, whitete on on black, black on black, b , it doesnt matter. That poor woman who hung herself host in alabama. Caller yes. Thats where someone has to step in and say, wait a minute, im not going to deal with that, let me get my job done. Host thank you for phoning in, i appreciate it. Caller i want to say one more thing. Host go ahead. Caller i think there is hope though. I really think there is hope. Host because . Changing. Ll, we are as mentioned, people color going at leasting the states in a few decades, if not less. We saw immense change with the they stole some of my ideas. Im africanamerican, if anybody that. Guess ed the trajectory is coming back to something sensible. One last thing, education is the way. The guy was asking, how we ever going to get together . You have to start at the beginning. Segregation to desegregation and busing, and said, no, we need neighborhood schools. Host also, income disparity, as well, which goes into that. Caller its huge. Theres the Planning Board at the county level that decides where low income buildings are going to be built. God knows. , thats rightton the beach. It doesnt have people who look like me. I volunteered and almost all the schools here. Im 67. There is hope. Host on that note, thank you phone call. A couple more headlines. The prison system in the u. S. In thecruel, thats los angeles times. Another anniversary being commemorated this weekend, the watts riot. Donald trump will be phoning into the sunday programs. We carry all of them on cspan radio. Gop leaders saying erratic attacks hurting trump, but he is the house he vows to fight and win. It is believed that his candidacy may collapse because star, attacks on a fox and not committing to the gop nomination. Is richard, joining us from Daytona Beach c, florida. Caller thanks for taking my call. The point that i want to bring up is that the spiritual and religious leaders should set a good example, like they did in charleston. My point is that we are always on the bad things. Those people are, if you understand what im saying. Whereas, if we could learn to sometimes, if you are Police Officer or a young man, if you get in a situation where youre really not thinking clearly, and people make mistakes, it doesnt mean its right or wrong. As far as humanity goes, we all have to learn to live together, and understand that the law should prevail and treat people fairly. At the same time, we should not overreact and make the situation worse, instead of making it better. That was my comment. The st. Louisy, postdispatch reporting on this as well. Coming up in just a couple of minutes, we will turn our attention to the economy. Out on numbers came friday showing that the Unemployment Rate is holding steady. Ben casselman will talk about that. He is the chief economic writer for fivethirtyeight. Later from the Kissinger Institute china expert, robert be here to talk about u. S. China relations. , by the way, a state visit by the chinese president. First, the top democrat on the energy and commerce committee, representative Frank Pallone, was a guest on newsmakers. [video clip] a clean power plant, as i for at, will make cleaner environment. There many people now that suffer from dirty air, pollution, particularly those who have asthma, that are negatively impacted, as far as their health. I would really like to stress that cover more than anything else. By cutting back on carbon to dioxide, you are cleaning the air. In a place like new jersey, which not only has an missions emissions, but is down winds from pennsylvania and ohio, where they have a lot of these coal plants. We would benefit because it would be a 32 reduction, based , in co2standards emissions by 2030. I know the Climate Change aspect is important, by really want to stress the health impact. What do you make of the possibility to opt out . That basically obliterates ule. R i think it is unfortunate, not only because they are basically getting rid of the rule or the program, but the president allows for a lot of flexibility. It was announced on monday that they can provide a plan, each by 2018n provide a plan , so they are given more time. The state pretty much has the flexibility about how to go about this. I dont know what more can be done to make it easier for states to meet the goals. In fore sure to tune cspans newsmakers program. It airs every sunday. This week, i guess this the ranking democrat on the house energy and commerce committee, congressman Frank Pallone of new jersey. Joining us from new york is Ben Casselman, chief Economics Writer for fivethirtyeight. Thank you very much for being with us. Guest thanks for having me on. Out the jobeated numbers that came out on friday, showing that the Unemployment Rate is holding steady. The following tweet, the job market is getting better, but there is still room for improvement. Say that workers are being left behind, who are those workers . Guest the job market has been on a pretty remarkable run, really for the last three years, but if you look, there are still large groups that are struggling. African still have a really high Unemployment Rates, young people, and the longterm Unemployed People who are out there that are still looking or have been left on the sidelines and have given up. Host the Unemployment Rate, 5. 3 and about 250,000 jobs added. What about those who are no longer looking . That 5. 3 percent number leaves out a lot of people. It only counts people who are actively looking for work right now. If you have decided to go back to school, and maybe come back with the job market gets better, if you got pushed into retirement the were planning on, if you decided to stay home with the kids because hey, i couldnt find work anyway, then for that matter, if you are living in your parents basement, none of those are measured in the Unemployment Rate. There is a broader measure that includes people who are unemployed, people who have given up looking, and people who are stuck in parttime jobs that prefer to find fulltime jobs that rate is more like template 10. 4 . Host have you looked into the unemployment and how much easier or difficult it becomes for that person to find a job . It makes a huge difference. There are about 8 million Unemployed People in the u. S. Right now. About 2 million of those people have been out of work for more than six months. The sixmonth mark is really important. Once you have been out of work for six months, it becomes markedly more difficult to find work. Employers might not look at you. Es up. Etwork drive and it becomes harder to motivate to keep looking. Hard underappreciated how it is to send out resumes after resume and go on interview after interview, and not hear anything. We do see that theres a pretty sharp cut off at six months, where becomes a lot more difficult to find work. That is especially true if you ofe your job in a period economic difficult times. If you lose your job now went employers are hiring and there are opportunities out there, you will be in a much different situation than if you lost her job in 20092010, when the economy was in a lot of trouble. Host you compare 2008 to 2015, not just the official Unemployment Rate, but the underemployment rate, which has come down, but is still significant. Guest there are two ideas here that i think can sometimes be hard for people to reconcile. Things are getting better, and yet, they are still not great. We see longterm unemployment fall. We see the Unemployment Rate for groups that i mentioned, for blacks, the young, the less educated all of those groups have seen real improvement, but theyre not back to where we were and what we considered good economic times. If you look at the official Unemployment Rate, that 5. 3 percent, that is close to what we consider a normal level. If you talk to the federal yourve, about 5 is what would see and a normal healthy economy. We are getting close to that. The 10. 4 number that i cited, that is the underemployment rate. That is still elevated. That is still above where you would like to see it in a good economy. Host our guest is Ben Casselman, joining us from new york. He writes for fivethirtyeight, which is what . Fivethirtyeight is the Data Journalism site. 538 refers to the number of electoral votes in the electoral college. Our founder is a statistician and is renowned for predicting Election Results in 2012. About 1. 5 years ago, we launched a site, sponsored by espn, bringing the numbers to the news from everything from politics, sports, entertainment issues. Host speaking of numbers, we have one line set aside for those of you who are unemployed or underemployed. That number is 202 7458002. Otherwise, we are dividing our phone lines regionally. For those of you in the eastern part of the country, and the central, and pacific time zones. Anyone in a parttime job is still considered underemployed. There are about 6 Million People who are stuck in parttime jobs, who would like fulltime jobs, if you assume they are all working halftime, that is the equivalent of about 3 million fulltime jobs, and 3 million additional unemployed. That would be a substantial addition to the Unemployment Rate. It is important to remember that there are 6 Million People working parttime involuntarily. There are a lot of people working parttime involuntarily are going toy, who school, or taking care of children. If you look at just the number of people who are working fulltime, we have only just gotten back to where we were when the recession began. Even though we have been adding jobs steadily for several years, we are only just getting back to the levels of fulltime employment that we saw before the recession. Writer foruest, a fivethirtyeight, before that, he wrote for the wall street journal, a graduate of columbia. Can you speak to the effects of unemployment and underemployment on wage stagnation . When will we see better jobs overall . Guest we have seen real stagnation in wages. At aboute been growing 2 per year over the course of the last year or so. That is below where we would like to see it and a healthy and recovering economy. The assumption is here that leads toemployment clos lower wage growth. If there are people looking for jobs, you dont need to offer as if you are struggling to find workers to fill a job, you might need to offer higher pay. One sign that the job market is not fully healed is that wage growth has remained muted. You look at the 5. 3 percent Unemployment Rate and say, that is not that many unemployed workers out there, maybe workers arent having that much trouble or are going to begin to have trouble to find workers. Because of the stagnant wage there, that suggests that are people out there looking for work that may not be counted fully in the Unemployment Rate. Joining us from chicago. How long have you been out of work . Caller one year. Host what did you do before you were laid off . Caller i was a Public Relations executive. Host how difficult hasnt been to find work . Caller impossible. I have three interviews this week. 56 a very useful 56, and also africanamerican. Experience. Thate been told repeatedly i am wellqualified for the position, and then told that im not a cultural fit. The over 50 workers, we have advanced degrees, people feel a little bit threatened from our experience because theyre hiring managers in their 30s and 40s. I wish someone would please workers, notlder seniors, we are in our 50s, we are current. On top of that, race. Stand a chance right now. It is very sad and frustrating. It is not that we are not educated or experienced. It is just that people dont want to hire us. Thats why we had affirmative action. Host Ben Casselman, how would you respond to keiths sentiment . Guest i think the data backup when what he is saying. It is true that africanamericans have is that have a substantially higher Unemployment Rate, and Older Workers have a really difficult time finding work. If you are in your 40s or 50s, and youre early 60s, you are less likely to lose your job. You are less likely to become unemployed than if you are in your 20s or 30s, but once you do lose your job, it is a lot harder to find work. Garnish and is absolutely a real thing. We see it in repeated economic studies. It is less likely that employers consider Older Workers. They tend to be if you are a company and are looking to fill a lowwage job, youre likely to look to somebody in the 20s or their 30s. I have talked to a lot of unemployed workers in their 50s who said they would take a lower salary but their employers will do not believe they would accept it for very long. Caller is right. This is a huge issue that we have not succeeded in putting back to work. A lot of particularly Older Workers who lost jobs during more difficult times and have been pushed to the sidelines in this later time. One viewer saying i would gladly trade my seven hours a week fulltime job for a parttime job. You can share your thoughts and comments on our twitter page. , and economic writer for fivethirtyeight. Steve, how long have you been out of work . Caller one year. I was an Office Manager at a notforprofit. Was injured at work i was out about three month. I was receiving workers comp. My employer felt that once i got back to work, i would not be the same. I am also 55 and africanamerican. I thought i was a valuable employee but i was terminated. I do not feel like employers see that i am skilled. Instead, they see me as someone who is up in age and maybe i cannot be counted on. It is pretty frustrating. I think this is a story we hereto frequently. Too frequently. Employers have really been able to pick anyone they wanted here there are so many workers out there looking for jobs that they set precise requirements for what they are looking for. Anyone who did not take all the boxes did not get a chance. The hope is as the economy improves, employers become less picky. If someone does not fit exactly what they were initially looking for, they may still get a chance. Int is something was sought the late 1990s. The last time we saw a strongly a truly strong job market. A lot of people had disabilities, criminal records, other challenges, who were able to get jobs in a way they have not been able to sense. Clear there are particular challenges that face Certain Groups in the country. Africanamericans and Older Workers are two of those. If you have both come it as to the difficulty. How would you assess how much money americans are or are not spending especially on big ticket items like appliances . Consumer confidence is vastly stronger than a couple of years ago. Consumer spending has not been boosted as much by low gas prices as some people might have anticipated. It suggests an amount of caution that might exist. Is economy as a whole basically telling the same story right now. There was a time a few years ago when you would get one signal from one piece of the economy and another signal from another and it was difficult to figure out what was going on. Right now, we are pretty much getting the same signal, which is that we are seeing steady but not spectacular growth. Compare it to what we might have seen before the recession or the late 1990s, it does not feel like that. A lot of you with questions on our twitter page. She wants to know, is the forployment rate higher those with degrees or the uneducated . I assume she is referring to College Degrees. Guest there is a huge different difference in the Unemployment Rate by education. If you do not have a high school diploma, your Unemployment Rate is north of it are sent. Really elevated. Have a College Degree, your Unemployment Rate right now is only 2. 6 . Youre in a much better shape if you have a College Degree. Notllege degree does necessarily mean you have the kind of job you expected to get with the College Degree. We hear about College Graduates working in coffee shops and all sorts of jobs, retail jobs, jobs they might not have thought they would get with their College Degree. You have a lot of student debt and are trying to pay that off, you may not feel like you are doing what you expected to do my going to college. But it is the case you are vastly less likely to be unemployed if you have a College Degree than if you do not. Thanks for being with us. Caller good morning. Is there a legal, federally accepted definition of a job . Of alls been the effect the government firing we have seen over the last eight years . Can the government be the solution in this problem by creating massive infrastructure building . Host three good points. The first question, the definition of a job . No singlere is definition of a job. For the numbers i have been citing, these are the bureau of labor statistics. They consider you employed if you work even in our of pay during the times they are asking about. Theory, if you agree to help fix your neighbors car or helped mold their lawn for a couple of hours and get paid for that, you are employed. 215,000 jobs added last month, that those are payroll jobs. Where you have an employer. They may be fulltime or parttime. But you are an actual employee of the company. In other contexts in government, there are other definition that could be relevant. Those are the basic definitions for the numbers. Ont his second point government cutbacks and we are seeing that in many parts of the country, including here in washington dc, maryland, virginia, impacted by sequestration and budget cuts. The other question is whether the Government Spending can turn around the economy. How would you answer those two points . It is an important point. What we saw in the early years a pullbackvery was in Government Spending, the opposite of what most economists say you ought to do during a difficult economic time. Conventional wisdom is that the toernment should spend more stimulate the economy and then pull back spending during good economic times. So as to not run up the debt unnecessarily. We thought we did see a substantial is substantial andrnment stimulus effort we saw a lot of government cutbacks. The government sector is now adding jobs again at a modest pace and has been for a few months now. Offsetting that a client that have come earlier. It certainly has not played the sort of major role in itmulating the economy that has during other cycles. On the infrastructure point, i hear a lot of people asking about that, about calls for the government to intervene and employ people directly through infrastructure projects. Economists argue that is a step that mightve made a certain amount of sense during the recession and the immediate aftermath of the economy does seem to be doing better. There were how other arguments for infrastructures ending. A lot of infrastructure is aging in the country and there may be economic and if its too spending on that and trying to build the infrastructure for the longterm. The need clear we have for that stimulus effort now in the way that we did in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Read bens work online. We are talking about jobs and the economy. According to the labor department, retail jobs leaving the growth was about 36,000 new jobs. Many of those are minimum wage or just above minimum wage. 28,000 new jobs in the Health Care Area and 27 new job in other professional services. Philip is joining us from florida. How long have you been out of work, philip . Outip i go in and depending on the time of the year sometimes, or it could be a cycle or it could be a person who has got another job overseeing, and they could have a personality problem. Preferred over getting a job because you have more control over your life although there are ups and downs. On the topic you cover today, i admire your manners, but the , theres, i am looking at is a great book out there 10 years ago that covers a lot of the issues we are talking about today that i would recommend. Run in my shoes. I recommend it highly because it is a distinct message helping people understand the underlying why we have psychological and Economic Issues that we all face in the world we live in. I think that is the underlying issue, people need to be educated on why things are happening and not just react to the everyday things we address. I would recommend that and reiterate you have a great show. The topic you cover today are a great asset to helping us understand cause and effect. Thank you. Host thank you and thank you for adding your voice to our conversation. Ben casselman, your response. Guest i think it is important to look at the longerterm as well as the short term. I think that is part of what the caller was maybe getting on there. We focus on the short monthtomonth numbers. 215,000 this month, 230,000 before. I think the caller is right that we need to focus a little bit and step back, on what is sort of the larger situation. The long run situation is clear right now. The economy is getting steadily better. The job market in particular. Not experienced the kind of rapid or broadbased growth a lot of people were hurt hoping for in the aftermath of the recession. That left a lot of people feeling like they are being left out. You cited my story earlier that there are people being left behind by the recovery. We highlighted specifically a few different groups. But i think a lot of people feel like the recovery is not fully reached them. Middleclass incomes have been slow to rebound. Pretty stagnant. Wages have been pretty stagnant. Is not a sense of progress that i think a lot of people associate with the word recovery. Virtually all the growth employment fulltime compared to parttime employment. Where can people follow you on twitter . At Ben Casselman. I owe always treat out observations and other things were working on. You can certainly keep caps on me there. Host good morning from florida. Caller i want to talk to you. I was born and raised in delaware. I used to work when as in high school at the night shift parttime. The workers were black. They used to go out on the farms and bring in the chickens and have been processed for the next day. So many hispanics working the chicken plants. I went to delaware, maryland, and most of the places where hispanics working there. It used to be blacks working there. Can you explain to me why there are so many hispanics working at these chicken plants . Thank you. Host thank you. I do not know that i could speak to chicken plants specifically. I think a couple of things are going on here. We have an increasingly diverse country and increasingly hispanic or latino, especially the younger working population it is especially hispanic and latino. A lot of the manual labor type jobs are dominated or at least disproportionately hispanic or latino. There has been research on patterns between industries when a job because associated with a Certain Group the, based on ethnicity or gender, that that could then sweep through an industry. People can aside, well that is a job at 10th to go to able in this category and i do not going to that category. Know if that is what is happening in chicken plants specifically, but certainly, that is something we have seen in a number of other industries. Host beth is next in washington. How long have you been unemployed . Caller four years. Host what did you do for you lost your job . Caller 25 years in health care in a leadership position. For very large company. A Health Organization which, of course, went through a lot of restructures and transformation. What i wanted to really speak to is that there are a lot of highly skilled people. I heard a german speech of his earlier. Think once you hit a certain age, regardless of your skill set, there is such a bias. Whether it is age or demographic or whatever. T is very difficult in a 3. 5 your time, i applied in five different states, 782 applications, all of which were ,ointed toward everything a job i apply for a wrote a cover letter. I did not stop there. Going to the unemployment office, i was among a lot of people who were highly skilled. Took 48 people and put together our own program like the Economic Development council , got the ability to meet on a weekly basis. We took all these people who had different skills and who were 10 years or more in a certain field, and we went out to the businesses, we put together trade, ands of the we taught people about all the additional things you need to to enhance your skills. Each one of those people, a lot andhem were trained certified in different areas. We really tried to reach out to everybody in our position. We could not get people to listen to us. They did not think we were skilled enough. We were running circles around people. We had our own unemployment section and we could not get the unemployment people to listen to us. Leastt if they would at let us volunteer, we would continue our skills and it would be easier to get a job. The bias is very difficult. I went from my job, i oversaw 3200 people, a large job shared i could not even get a door greeter at one of our local places. What i have cared less did. I just wanted a job. Attendant, i wouldve filled anything. Will assume in yearly 40s or early 50s. Caller i was 56 when i lost my job. Be very highly skilled. It is such a bias. Younger people said we did not have any skills. We taught people how to do codes, how to fix sigma. I do not know if you know what that is in business. I was a facilitator p or i had all of these certifications and we were teaching people every week how to put their digital how tont out there and work with linked in and facebook and how to do all those things. We still cannot turn the corner. There were 48 of us and we did it for a year and a half. The chamber of commerce, open did everything we could, we put together a digital directory. Had cars and brochures. We had everything. 48 of us, very highly skilled, a difficult time. Two or three years of work and parttime work. Host thank you. Oflier, the longer you out debt you are out of work, the more difficult it is to find a job. You seem to indicate that. Nobody wantsller you because they do not think your skilled. Host thank you. Ben casselman. To hear that. Ry incredibly difficult situation. I think that is right. I hear all the time from Older Workers who say that no matter how much they ensure that their skills are up to date or they get their skills up today, that they have a difficult time convincing companies, especially with hiring managers in the 20s and 30s, that they have those skills. They are assumed to be inflexible or they are assumed to be less savvy digitally. It can be very difficult to convince companies otherwise. Also think people who have 10, 20, 30 years of experience in the industry with the company, a lot of the experience they build up may not turn out to be relevant in the same way. You learned how to use the concert the Computer Systems in a different in a Typical Company and then they use a different system. You may be perfectly capable of learning that system, but you have all of this intellectual capital that came with the previous job, that now sort of disappears, that no longer has the same value. I think it can be difficult for people to get past that. But then even if you are entirely willing to accept a lower paid position, even if youre entirely willing to change industries, it can be very difficult to convince the company to take a chance on you, especially at a time when there are other people who are available to step in and take those jobs. There is a really Interesting Program out of connecticut which has been replicated in one place in the country, called platform to employment, where they have worked not only to train people in job skills, but then actually to subsidize their initial employment somewhere. Partners in the business community. They say, if you will bring on somebody who is a longterm unemployed, we will pay part of the salary. , to lowerrst period the risk for both sides. To give the company a reason to take a chance on somebody. Successe found some were people, once they get the foot in the door, once they get a chance to show that they have those skills, that they often are, as they claim all along, very valuable employees and they get that chance. That is difficult to do on a massive scale. We are talking about the economy, jobs, and wages. This tweet, workers have not shared in the profit generated by their labor. Wages are stagnant and have been. Lets go to kelly and ohio. Good morning to you. I was curious about africanamerican unemployment and wondering if there are thatstics that show africanamericans as a percentage, hire employment with government jobs than with private sector. The economy went through the recession and the government jobs, that hit after americans more so. Are there any statistics around that . Guest there are but i do not know them off the top of my head and i have a memory that it is the case africanamericans are more likely to be employed in government jobs and also in other Industries Hit particularly hard by the recession. That does not explain the entirety of what we see. The after american Unemployment Rate has been above the white Unemployment Rate for a very long time. Predating the recession. Anis certainly not just issue of the state of the economy at a given moment. But there certainly are numbers on that. You can look them up on the something it is could look up when i get off the air. Host suzanne from massachusetts, good morning. Good morning to time turning down my tv. All,ted to speak, first of i felt so bad when i heard the two gentlemen, highly skilled workers over 50, and they have been professionals but they both stated they were africanamericans. Having tuned into your earlier stats 101 p are we all had to take them in college. You can put numbers in any category you want. I just wanted to speak to them to say, it is not that you are black. It is that your old. I am 61. I am speaking as one of them. Overe wants to hire people 50. I do not believe it is for the reasons you have been speaking of. I think it is economic. If you are lucky enough to be able to switch jobs, in other words, you lose your job and they retrain you, you will be coming in at an entrylevel along with new college kids. Entrylevel employer. Employee. Why would they want to hire someone retiring in 15 years when they can get a whole lifetime of work out of a very young person . I think it has more to do with the money and i do not think it has to do with the fact of their race. We are dividing so much on race now. I was a young person, i was in south boston. It was a difficult time for those poor black people. A difficult time for those of us who were in the neighborhood schools and everything. It is almost cyclical now. Was in the past but now, doesnt it show up in every single conversation . It is a shame. I did not want to speak to the fact i think it is all about their ages and not the color of their skin. I do not know if you agree with that or not. You yourself are categorizing the unemployment by blacks. I am not sure it is necessary. To just comment on that very brave woman who just called and was out of work for four years. I was wondering, did they offer her retraining . What do you think is going on there . Dont you think any person that loses a job, as far as i am concerned, should be offered retraining. I also wanted to mention that they say the Illegal Immigrants are coming in taking jobs that Many Americans do not want to take care that is very true but maybe if we added that work the welfareack to and the medicaid and whatever it , weou call it in your state add that component back and people would have to take lower paying jobs. Chevron the government owes them the retraining. Host we will get a response. Thank you. Ben casselman. Guest yes, a couple of things. On the race question, the caller is right. Ages a major factor for people who love been out of work for a little while. The substantial differences by race, it is especially true on the other spectrum. Young africanamericans, men in particular, had a rate of employment right now. Lets consider 2 are working, of lack men between the ages of 20 and 24 are working. Many have criminal records because of way we police the country. Absolutely a lack of opportunity in many cities. The School Systems are often not as good. You have lower levels of education and lower skills, for any number of reasons. We have a real issue across the country right now. Among young rates africanamerican men. The government does provide training for people who lose jobs in certain circumstances. If you lose a job because your job is outsource overseas or particular industries and you have been hit hard by manufacturing industries, they have a mixed record of success and retraining can be a real forlenge, particularly Older Workers that a company may not be eager to hire somebody who has just gone through job training. The caller suggested, might have more opportunity. Think it told theyre looking for somebody who could grow in the position. Something of a code word. There was something, the caller had another question regarding welfare. Still,bsolutely the case you qualify for benefits or the welfare reform laws passed under the Clinton Administration are very much still in place. It is much more difficult in this country than it was in the second half of the 20th century. There is a real incentive right now, a lowwage worker, it is very difficult to qualify for government benefits. Host jody makes this point on our twitter page. A quick comment on that, Ben Casselman . There i have long thought is a real edge a company could get being willing to hire people who are having a difficult time finding work. Few are willing to say, we will hire somebody who has been stuck on the sidelines for a while, you may be able to get somebody with skills. Somebody willing to go out and hire her is probably going to get somebody with a lot more thaned and experienced they could if they compete in the open market with someone who has a job. There is an opportunity there. Absolutely the experience that comes with being in the workforce and learning how to adapt, those are real skills. I hope the companies will be willing to hire people. Thank you, Ben Casselman, for adding your insights on jobs and the economy. The website looks like. We appreciate you being with us. We turn our attention to u. S. China relations. The president of china making his First Official visit to washington next month. A state visit at the white house. Dal joins us. Eugene odonnell later he will be joining us from chicago. We are back in a moment. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] tonight, the trade passes Financial Issues. And overseeing in u. S. History. The stock market went down to 6700 30 invested in the Dow Jones Industrial index, whatever. 18,000, almost three times what it was. They could have paid the pensions in full and gun back it is to be a, practice of giving pensioners a 13 check at the end of fear in addition to 12. It could have fixed itself if it had been a sober management. If you have some strong leadership and some focus leadership, you can resolve these problems. Takes a lot of effort. Tonight on cspans q and a. Monday, on the communicators are co process the creative and how that process takes work. What was the process the Wright Brothers used . They were not the first people and they wereea not the first people to try. Why did they succeed where everybody failed . The problem they were trying to solve much better than anybody else. At the end of the day, being creative is not about having ideas in the shower or horror moments or lightning bolts of information. It is about solving problems one step at a time. Understanding the problem or the piece of paper, a problem of balance, it was key for the right others starting on their course that ultimately led to them flying. Monday night on the communicators. Washington journal continues. Host we want to turn our attention to u. S. China relations. We want to welcome robert daly, who served as a Cultural Exchange officer. He now serves as the director of the Kissinger Institute in china and the u. S. At the Wilson Center. A state visit, his First Official visit to washington, d. C. What can we expect . Play toirst, for him to the audience at home. This is important to americans. It means a great deal to the and the Chinese Communist party. It is the first featured item of the nightly news. If you want to broadcast to china a sense that he is welcome welcomed as a respected major leader, so the primary audience is at home. He would want to speak with president obama and audiences but primarily china. People in china almost demand state visits. Very important to the rest of the world. America is an outlier. We do not wonder who is here. But for them, this is about the performance of power. Whocially with xi jinping, presented himself as a strawman, that he is the answer, he is the leader the chinese want it. Though they are often critical of the United States, that affirmation, United States confirming, it matters to xi jinping. What can you tell us about him . Guest he has painted himself as the new strongman. He has come in with four major components of leadership. One is he wants to strengthen china passes economic reform. To transform the structure of the economy away from one based on manufacturing for export to one based on sustainable consumption proven growth domestically. He also wants to strengthening strengthening underpinnings for a strong economy. He is carrying out a massive Anticorruption Campaign. Fourth and lastly, an ideology campaign. Hes cracking down on intellectuals, lawyers, universities, think tanks, media, cultural figures, ngos. Support for the communist party, and the communist party passes control over all aspects of the agenda in china. Welcome your calls and comments. The lines are open. Of thest is robert daly Wilson Center. We keep hearing references to the amount of debt in china and one of the numbers . This is overplayed in the United States. China owes 7. 4 of our debt. Ofoften hear they go most the nicest debt. The majority foreign owner p japan is almost the same amount. Libya, ecuador, owns some american debt. In china, 7. 4 . The notion they are our bankers and creditors and we have to dance to their tune, it is not true. Shine a does not as a favor to us. They see it as the safest place. For someone who doesnt follow the nuances of what this means, explain the 7. 5 . Guest china buys american bonds as a way to safely park some of its assets earns through exports. There is criticism within china that instead of buying american bonds, they should use this to develop the american economy. It is not the case the china china will lend its money for overconsumption. The holdings of american debt as a favor. They do this for themselves because it is the best way to protect some of their assets. Ares not the case that we in debt to china and therefore we have to tiptoe around china and major it is misrepresented here. The South China Sea has become a point of contention around our allies. What is happening . Issuesi think the many in his very complicated relationship are manageable for the most part. It looks like we face a true security dilemma in the western pacific. Across draws a line. About 90 of the sea, the seas that border on the philippines, indonesia, malaysia, vietnam, and many of these countries this is a longstanding issue. In line was first drawn 1947, not under the communist but they draw this line. It is on all of their maps. It is very important to them. Very problematically, china has never said exactly where the line lies or what it means. There are policies that strongly imply they see this as a claim of territoriality. Very much claiming to all of the land features of the area and what we call an exclusive economic zone. That would make the South China Sea through which most of the trading training passes. That area is often described as a chinese zone. It is unacceptable not only to us but to china passes neighbors as well. I am sure you know he has written a piece and it is Available Online at nytimes. Com. This headline, can u. S. And along . T he makes his point. Taiwan, to that, currency policy, and a host of new ones have been added. In that same articles, article, it is a good summary. He said something along the lines of, the United States must be prepared to give a zone of influence in the South China Sea. This is problematic. The United States have been the primary guarantor of security in the area since world war ii. Has security umbrella allowed korea, japan, the other fastgrowing asian economies, and china to focus on Economic Development rather than on an arms race. Many of these countries distrust each other for historical reasons. We are at a point now where the United States would like to continue to play the role, to be the primary strategic actor in the region. China recognizes it has. Enefited it feels its time has no common it would like to play a larger role. Inhink orville is correct saying the United States needs to find ways to perhaps chain give china some amount of the security guarantee that it needs. China is simply too powerful to ignore in this regard. The notion that china would get a sphere of influence, giving up on the idea of the global commons, giving up an important aspect of international law, it would also involve weakening our guarantees to our allies. South via, japan especially, but also the philippines. A true security dilemma or each of us makes worst assumptions about each others intentions, and you can see where this has become a downward spiral. Host phone lines are open. Good morning. Caller good morning. I have two questions for you. The first one is that american , i was told they were paying universities in studentstrain indian and then to bring them over here to work in our medical field as doctors. Have to addhing i is i remember lucille ball and different ones being called communists and the rich. And yet we are doing all this business with a communist in iran. The last thing is tpp. They do not even want to know anything about it. Give it to him and he can handle it. When it comes to iran, they are all over it like you cannot trust it. China was part of the p5 plus one to negotiate that. How would you respond to the sentiment . Guest 30 is a doctor shortage in the United States. , especially toms underserved areas in the United States. A part of those programs, you are right about that. In terms of doing business with communist china, you raised a question. As you suggested, it evokes the red scares. Culturalations against and political figures. The Chinese Communist party is authoritarian in daily operations. It can be totalitarian when it feels there is a threat to the monopoly on power. For a long time, it has not been meaningfully communist in any way. It is a oneparty authoritarian state. Out communismrry or believe in communism. It increasingly believes in controlled markets. It is the role passes number two economy. It will soon surpass the United States in terms of absolute economic volume. It must be dealt with. Ofcannot ignore it because an aspect of governance we do not like any the United States benefits in many ways from a relationship with china. It is because of trade with china and lowcost goods at walmart and other supplies that American Consumers were kept low even during the worst of the recent recession. We benefited. Lastly on the ttp, the is importantrty giving president obama the same kind of trade negotiating authority that all president obamas predecessors have had. This Authority Allows him to complete negotiations on the transpacific partnership. That deal will then be made public. Period of analysis and commentary. When the final deal is negotiated and after we have seen it made public, i would not overstate republicans were anyone elses trust on the contents of the ttp yet. Tpp yet. It will either go through or it will fail on those terms. Follownother reason to us on twitter, we send you links to the articles we use on this program, including that piece in the New York Times. Can the u. S. And china get along . Brett is next in north carolina, republican line. With robert daly. Good morning. Nixons opening china in that 1970s and what is happening in iran now with obama, do you see parallels in how that plays out in the long economically question my thank you. Economically . Thank you. Guest we tend to think about our relationship with china in economic terms now. Went primarily to playing the china card, against a soviet union, a common enemy. China passes Economic Development, which has happened on a speed that is unprecedented, was not foreseen by president nixon or really anything anybody else at the time. The deal with iran is not primarily an economic rationale either. If the the argument is deal goes through and works as we hope it will work, it will serve to open up iran, a large country with a highly educated population which, historically, was more integrated in western led orders. If they do open up and become more integrated, they could develop economically and perhaps change politically in a way that would be beneficial for the people of iran and the broader region. That is the argument. It is more simply an audi for now to get a deal through that it is a serious perdition. I do not take it too seriously. Host Henry Kissinger is out with a new book. What has he told you . Guest his concern has always been United States near it need to deal china that is frank but also respectful of china in a way that isnt fond by china passes own traditions of diplomacy and governance. There are increasing calls for this now. For the first time in 35 years, we are seeing the beginning of a dissolution of a consensus. The idea that you have to work with china, you want to involve it in a complex set of situations. Including the United States, and that those relationships would gradually integrate china more closely with the rest of the world in a way that would make china not only a threat, but perhaps a boon to the United States and neighbors. Fewt now, over the past months, we have had more and more voices, saying constructive engagement has failed, that the United States is in fact aided it that it and and that and embe and that it is time to scrap thisdded and emphasize the competitive side of the relationship. Both aspects have always been up and we have tried to accentuate the positive and to keep the lines share of the relationships on the cooperative side. Because of issues in the south of people innumber washington are calling for an emphasis on competitive for the announcement this is an adversarial relationship for calling china out on this but also increasing our power in the western pacific in particular. I have not heard him speak specifically to some of the new calls for doing away with engagement, but this would call to his them a approach to china over the past 35 years. Host our guest served as a cultural officer in beijing at our embassy. Is now the director of the Kissinger Institute in china and the u. S. , part of the Wilson Center. Greg is next from orlando, florida, independent line. Good morning. Caller good morning. I live in hong kong for several years. He did not mention religion is one of the things that seemed to be changed there. Like the closer we get to focusing on Economic Reforms and how it gets to u. S. , the less send we are about national tierney against christianity that happens when china becomes more focused on the communist government leadership. Still some Close Friends in hong kong. Wonder how that will change. Does the u. S. Look at that less theiry in order to keep Economic Development going back and forth at a better pace . There is a crackdown of sorts against christianity in china. This is ongoing. This has a number of aspects. It is legal to be a christian, catholic, a buddhist, a muslim. But you can only practice your byth under Organization Led the china. If you are a protestant, you are supposed to be a member of the self patriotic church, a communist party church. A Catholic Church in china, with the vatican, also run by the communist already. As long as you worship within most churches, you will be for the most part left alone. There is an exception i will get to. As a matter of your faith practice, allowed to evangelize. You can worship but you cannot try to convert other nonchristians or chinese to your face, nor are you allowed to see your courage is a social center that provides various kinds of good, educational, economic for your local community. In china,ious person youre not allowed to control social agendas. With chinayou work under your own leadership, you are allowed to practice your faith. Not unreasonably, they put big crosses on her churches. There are highly christianized communities in the south in towns that are now full of these ,arge crosses being twined out the claim is these are violations of various architectural and building codes. Even people who work within the organizations, religious leaders of this is a violation chinese law and it is a strong backlash. Your question suggests the kinds about religious freedom and human rights, they wax and wane, that we are not consistent about that. I think you are correct. Also because of the increasing rightswn on human lawyers, freethinkers, that we will probably see a reemergence of ideological and Human Rights Concerns in the u. S. China relations. President xi jinping will be here in washington next month for a dinner at the white house. We will cover that on cspan networks. In pennsylvania, republican line with robert daley of the Wilson Center. Good morning, bill. Caller good morning. I have a couple of comments. One is, you have not mentioned at all the chinese and russian relationship, a very important development. The second, i know that will give you a lot talk about, the second is the fact that, i respect you, robert, and i do not want it to seem like i am attacking you. You said something space at the characterization characterization of china was namecalling, which i cannot support that that is the case. We were talking about human rights violations. Of course, china would like to forget tsquare. The fact that china as a country has become so powerful largely of the trade imbalance that exists, between china and do rest of the world, they fund us by sending the money we send them in the trading balance, back to buy our treasury bonds, back to wall street. In thethat kissinger 1990s was on the board of directors at aig. No mice to mention that. A lot of insurance is written from the United States markets in new york to china. The very large financial that have to go on between the communist nation and ours. Guest the question of whether to call it a communist nation, is this namecalling or is it misleading . I do say it is a oneparty state cracking down on its people and it is still totalitarian. When i say it is not communist, there is a specific meaning to communism. It as a way to describe any authoritarian state we disapprove of. Which a specific meaning are no longer accurate portrayals of the way the chinese nation and system works. Especially economically. They are not practicing communism, primarily a system of collective ownership, fading away fairly fast in china. To say that it is not communist is not to say we do not have to ways. Tical for number of the trade imbalance in chinese trade practices, there are many we do not like that we would like to see changed. The things we dislike about them are not that they are communists per se. Its a question, not of giving china a i think it is really a question of taking our terms properly and not giving china passed by saying it is not communist. Watching outside the United States, the number to call is 202 7488003. We welcome those of you watching online at www. Cspan. Org or listening on radio heard coasttocoast from xm. Sam is joining us from colorado. Good morning. Caller thank you very much. I have three questions. I am one of those who believes that the forming economic interdependence between countries is in the wrong term, the right approach whether we agree about their lifestyle or they agree about our lifestyle. That buys time to solve problems. Three quick questions. Host how about if we take them one at a time. Focus i saw obamas shift about 18 months ago, two years ago, to where he said this South East Asia is extremely important and has been neglected. Im not sure exactly what triggered that. Would you shed light on that. Host we will follow up. Robert daly . Guest you were referring to the pivot and then the rebounds to asia, and there have been some problems in the packaging of the description. Andwhat president obama initially Hillary Clinton and now kerry are focusing on that east asia is the most dynamic, populated and rapidly changing part of the world now. And it is that American Interest we concentrated there and need to shift our diplomatic efforts and soft power efforts and also our military emphases to the asian region. The goal is to go, on the from a balance of 5050 in the eastern hemisphere to 60 of our assets and the east and 40 of our assets in the west because this is where interestd states lies. You asked what triggered that first, it was not the case that they ever left the region. Certainly, president bush was very cognizant of the importance of east asia and had not neglected it, but i think it needed to be emphasized even more strongly because of our interest and also because of prior to the announcement of the pivotal rebounds, china had been asserting its longstanding claims to territory in the andern china sheet see South China Sea aggressively. It was clearly chinas rise and chinas more aggressive diplomacy was the primary factor that caused the Obama Administration to focus on the need to rebalance to east asia. Host your second point . Caller china seems to have a very long view, they have one party, they do not have hardy is fighting each other over the approach. They seem to take the 1000 year view that maybe kissinger would describe as where we all must take the quarterly view and we have the infighting that we do in politics. Does that put us at a disadvantage right out of the chute in dealing with a problem i china . Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. It is true that in china because there is only one party in fact, the parties it is not that their parties do not fight each other, it is that there are no other meaningful parties. It is just the communist party and it does not tolerate any challenges to its authority. Because of that, yes, they are to give the appearance of consensus. They do engage in longterm planning. We are expecting the 13th, fiveyear plan now. Thesecretary of general of communist party in china has articulated longterm goals for Economic Development and is filling in the details of how theyre going to get there. It is not just that they are unopposed by other parties. Of course, they also do not have a free press that can criticize these plans nor is there an independent judiciary that make act as a check on those. Yes, that can mean that a party that is unopposed and that forms laws and policies in that way can be more efficient in some cases whereas we had deliberately consulted and participatory inefficient system. Of course, there have been folks in the United States in 2008 who wondered that system is still of aate to face challenges global world. At the same time, china can be deficient and plan on the line the long because they do not have opposition parties or a free person or independent judiciary. They do not get feedback from the society about the true state of affairs in the country and what the real statistics are. They do not get the right kind of feedback of on how policies are implemented and they do not get the diversity of view. Especially under the president , who was arrested about 100,000 members of the communist party in this Anticorruption Campaign and who is increasing looking at the my way or the highway kind of guy. People in china, not only policy circles, but in universities, media, think tanks, are hesitant to speak up about their views. It is hesitancy that we have not seen since after 1989 and the movement. Despite the efficiency of longterm planning, there is often a problem with information. Diversity of views that would help them form better policies, so do not lose hope yet. Both of these systems have their advantages and i would bet on diversity of inputs in the longterm. The tim promised he had points. Quickly, your final question or comment. Caller steve, thank you for the time. The third question, i do not see china china is a Strong Military power, and i do not see them i see them engaging in economicallystly engaging in nicaragua and i do not see them exercise that military might in all the bottles likely to and all the battles like we do. Is it, suck we fight the battles and they kind of cleanup on the periphery on the economic arrangements . Maybe youve got a thought and steve, thank you. Host thank you, tim. Very goods is a question and influx, something to keep an i on. You are right that there has been a longstanding including from the United States and the administration. China does not provide enough public goods, that the united polices china imports most of the oil, gets the benefit of that, the get the contracts in the oilfield with iraq and other nations, but we thed the money to guard ceilings. China has been criticized by president obama, among others, as a free rider. At the same time, what china does try to assert leadership or aggression, depending on your point of view, when it went to provide more public goods, if it wanted to use its growing Blue Water Navy to play a larger role, then it finds itself accused of being aggressive, so china feels like it is damned if it does end damned if it does not. It is somewhat torn in protecting and selling of the goods, which china is interested in doing. They sent a lot of medical pagennel and to africa and and played a major role in battling piracy and have conducted missions in the mediterranean. The escorted some of the russian ships that brought chemical weapons away from syria, for example. They have a growing role which is sometimes welcomed and sometimes condemned. You mentioned investments in africa and nicaragua and that you have not see more military involvement yet. Their involvement grows as the capabilities grow. Their military evacuated a number of chinese civilians from eurosand work seenesque for doing this. Its missions are expanding. Host dave is, michigan. Republican line. Good morning. Caller hello . Host good morning, dave. Caller yes, i would just like to put a slant on this chinese iade in that it seems that am 70 years old, and while i was a young boy, america was manufacturing everything but the kitchen sink. We were making our own clothes, shoes, and everything was of quality. Since we have lost all of these to china, to mexico, to japan, with the exception of the automobile, it has been at the but poor quality in the goods. The pants do not fit, the washing machines and the dryers only last 1 10 of as long as an american washing machine or dryer. Everything is poorer quality. I do not understand how you sit there and talk about how this is possibly even good. Donald trump has it right. They are making full of us. Fools of us. Theyre making fools of obama, all of our politicians. China, japan, mexico. Toyota was outselling all the american automobiles hand over fist because they could make them cheaper, they send them over here, they sell cars of good quality and everybody is is theo buy it, but what american manufacturer going to do when he has to sell this product at a given rate and it does not compete with the toyota that can come over here and cut rate prices . Dave, thank you for the call and comments. We will get a response. Guest dave, you touched on a number of issues. In terms of quality of experts, this is something china is concerned about and this certainly wouldnt alleviate any of your concerns, if anything, it might exacerbate them, but china is aware and very eager to move up the value change and to export higherquality product. Indeed, it wants to become a leader in the economy. Bein, i realize that may not comfort for you. Also, as you suggest, it is not just china. We look at the trade imbalance with china. All there has been numerous cases of factories moving overseas where it is possible to say, yes, these americans lost these jobs to china, in fact, these trends begun long before chinas rise and a lot of the manufacturing that has gone to china went to china from third countries to which america has lost jobs even earlier. So the issue is not just globalization. We are trying to address this. We spoke earlier about the transpacific partnership, the ptt, which hopes to establish trade, including export of american automobiles and Agricultural Products to japan, so tpp is in part an effort to address these issues, but it is not just globalization. It is also optimization that will keep a lot of these jobs from coming back because when the product, the american highquality products, you describe, where being manufactured and though by individual American Assembly lines that were staffed by being built by robots. A lot of these jobs are not coming back because of not just china but automation. This poses problems not only for the United States but other nations as well. Host we welcome our guests on cspan radio as well. We are talking about china relations. This is an interesting question on our twitter page. To americans own land in china . Does the Chinese Government allow americans to buy land in its borders . Guest the answer is, no. Only the Chinese Government can own land. We can lease land like chinese, but even individual chinese cannot homeland and that is because of the feeling that china feels it was exploded and encouraged exploited and encroached upon of their sovereignty and patriotism and only the Chinese Government owns chinese land. Host lets go to is it carlana . In my pronouncing a properly . Caller yes, that is right. What i would like to do is point that when the and went to china, one of his arguments was that he was opening up a new market to sell americanmade roots. Since then, kissinger has been one of the main people and his associates making hundreds of millions of dollars assisting American Companies to move into china. Really, kissinger is one of the main people that we can blame for the poor quality of the goods we are getting and for the fact that americans do not have jobs. Secondly, by the fact that the chinese are manufacturing so many goods, they do not have to use military power against the United States. All they have to do is refuse to export batteries and light bulbs and a few other items that would bring us to our knees if we could not get. Secondly, with all the electronic equipment that we buy, they can easily have chips in them which could be made to explode or catch on fire if we ever did find ourselves in a real warlike situation with china. I am not against the chinese at all, but these are the facts. Kissingers certainly one of the main people to blame for these problems and these threats to our security. Of americasis one fastestgrowing export markets. We do have a trade imbalance, but we are exporting evermore to china. Yes, there is a trade imbalance, but the story, as always in china, is more complicated than that. And that china could cut off exports and bring the United States to its knees. If china cut off exports to the United States, china would fall to its knees and fall to its face. Chinas economy depends on exports to the worlds biggest market, the United States. If they cut off those exports, chinas factories would close, Chinese People would lose their jobs and it would cause tremendous instability within china itself, so this is, as one of the earlier call is characterized, a mutually interdependent relationship. There are many problems with that relationship. I do not mean to make light of them. Not the case that china can do stores through that instrument or that it exports to us and that it can bring us to our knees by cutting off exports. They do not have that option and they know it. Your third point i think is a good one. I dont think the chips can explode or set on fire, but the chips that come in a number of chinese goods and that the chinese requires american manufacturers like apple to put into the fold it sells in china and going all over the world, are made to chinese specifications and some case by chinese manufacturers. This is, and should be, cause of concern for americans who are worried about security. If not because the sample can explode in your area, but because our information is not secure. Host when we criticize china for its human rights record, does the Chinese Government listen . Do we make a difference . Guest do we make a difference . Yes, i think the record is that intelligently made, regularly made criticisms of human rights are better yet or better yet discussions of human rights, as much as the Chinese Government did dislike them, does it have an impact on china over time . Its not the case that we can ask china to do something and they will do it. In fact, they will do the opposite to show they can, but it was american representation to a large degree which put the chinasan right into vocabulary. We have to do it intelligently, and that means recognizing that despite chinas large human Rights Problem and despite the fact that the problem has gotten worse under the president s leadership, the trajectory from the time that we found relations with china in 19 79 until now, has been positive. The chinese have far more freedom in their daily lives than they did in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. A are far freer to shape their lives, go under seas go overseas, study in american universities, spend as they wish, work where they wish, pursue careers of a wish, they are far more free at the personal level and far more physically healthy and internationally engaged than they were. And that is in no small part because of representation of the United States but also because of chinas own changes and we have to recognize progress or we both discredit ourselves if we do not think knowledge that. Then i think we also need to a notions ofhat the rights are changing and that the United States, too, and i do not mean to simply go to a moral equivalence here, but has a mixed history with human rights and has only gradually and comes to to violence reconceived human rights. As long as we acknowledge that there has been Real Progress and as long as it knowledge that we are imperfect and do not simply write the finger and preach but have a discussion, we can talk to the chinese leaders in a way that can make a difference for the Chinese People who are still not free, despite the commercial freedom and other individual freedoms. They are not free to challenge of the communist parties, monopoly on political power, or to set the agenda in china socially. That they cannot do and many of them do get rounded up or forppeared for advocating their beliefs. We can make a difference, but it has to be nuanced, intelligently done. Host very quickly, if he were to write a headline on what is a complex relationship between the u. S. And china, with a story or stories the from the state visit next month what would it be, looking ahead . Guest i think the story of xi jinping is visit, there will probably be an announcement for purchasing of american products, trade commissions, and to show value to the United States by sending a lot of orders. For example, for boeing airplanes. We have seen this before. It is not a big change. I think that the headline is going to be that xi jinping is a powerful leader who wants respect from the United States and to has a longterm vision for china us role in the world. A more powerful, more influential role in the world that the United States is unsure of how to respond to. With theert daly Wilson Center and serves as the director of the Kissinger Institute on china and the United States. Thank you for your insights. They were appreciated this point. Guest thank you. Host we will turn our attention to the anniversary today, one year ago when the shooting took place in ferguson, missouri, and sparking a debate on racial relations in america. A former newell is york city Police Officer and will be joining us from chicago. You are watching and listening to cspans washington journal. We are back in a moment. Q a,ght on cspans former emergency manager of talks aboutin orr, Financial Issues and overseen the largest municipal bankruptcy in u. S. History. If detroit had taken that money into thousand five and 2006, when the stock market went down to 6,700 and if it had invested in an index fund, Dow Jones Industrial, whatever, stock market is now trading at 18,000, almost three times what it was. They not only would have tripled the money, they could have paid the pensions in full and got them back in the business of declaring that check that used to be a practice of giving pensioners of 13th check at the end of the year, in addition to the 12 that are due. It could have fixed its up if there had been some kind of sober management going forward, just like any organization in the United States. If you have Stronger Leadership and some focused leadership, you can resolve these problems, but it takes a lot of effort. Tonight on cspans q and a. Washington journal continues. Host it was one year ago in which the shooting take place took place in ferguson, missouri. We are joined today by Eugene Odonnell, a former nypd Police Officer and a lecturer at John Jay College and joins us from chicago. Since the death of Michael Brown, what has changed in america, if anything . Guest i think we found out that a lot of policing is done arbitrarily in a capricious way and in a way that is whimsical. As we look at these cases, we are seeing the seeds of these bady forces and a lot of politics and bad policy where the police are being deployed against cigarette sales, the most minor traffic offenses, against deadbeat dads. We had the cincinnati Campus Police doing city policing, we have revenuebased policing in ferguson, so putting aside the daily force stuff that is troubling, we have to look at how the Police Establishment and how political people have failed to exercise oversight and to adequately say what is the rationale for the police and we are doing in the country . That is a crucial conversation and i have to say, as somebody who has been in the field a long time, i find some of the disclosures about the failure to take care of business in terms of oversight, in terms of asking tough questions, startling. Host you were in new york city in the early 1980s, did you see that . Is to make a long story short, when i went on, it was a busy department and there was not as much oversight. They got into message measurement after i left, something called const that that was in very good, but in practice, more is better and you kept driving enforcement with no regard to the cross of that enforcement. In recent years, nypd is pulling back on that. They had a Record Number of stops a few years ago, 600,000, that number has plummeted in the city at this point and probably safer than any time in my lifetime. The idea that Law Enforcement is necessarily a better thing, you need to be doing smarter enforcement, targeted enforcement and you have to realize that that enforcement is mostly going to be done in for minority neighborhoods and there was a big legacy issue there and there may be benefits, but they also have to be weighed. Host the Washington Post has tracked the following numbers 24 black victims who have died as a result of police shootings, all were unarmed and the full list is Available Online at Washington Post. Com. It is called black and unarmed. Your reaction, Eugene Odonnell . The level of violence we have in our society and were looking at police violence, but we have a nation that is washing guns and the police, too, because of the work they do in the training they have, they think were case worstcase scenario. What if somebody whether somebody turns out to be unarmed or a civilian asserting selfdefense or Police Officer, you do not have to wait to be attacked to defenders of under our law and the fact is, attacks can happen against the police that do not involve individuals firearms. Police always have firearms, so in police are involved, the situation is potentially deadly and it could result in the officer being disarmed of a weapon, and that weapon being used against him or her. Host last week, we sat down with tom major, he heads up the Montgomery County maryland Police Department but the head of the Police Chiefs association, and he spoke about some of the problems that officers face and how theyre trying to trying to deal with those. I wanted to listen to apportion and get your response. It really started a number of national conversations. Ofstarted conversations police use of force, specifically deadly force. It started conversations about the militarization of the lease, of police, does the diverse of the reflect the diversity of the community we are serving . First and foremost, it started , what isrsation about the relationship between the Police Department and the community . Host Eugene Odonnell, he went on to say that relationship needed to be cops developing that oneonone relationship with shop owners, neighborhoods your response to what he had to say. Course, it is true. Community policing is done all of that the country in welltodo neighborhoods. It is a nobrainer, pretty easy to do. What we are facing is a challenge in terms of inner cities, poor neighborhoods, places where there has been massive disinvestment. People have been left to their own devices. We have this arms race going on were ever more powerful weapons are available to people that are using them and we had, at the moment, very disturbing spike in shootings. And i think a qualityoflife. Isorder in communities in those communities have often been a real challenge to implement Community Policing because the reality is, the police have an adversarial job and you have to get the balance right and it is not always easy to do that. We have a situation now where there are thousands of homicides, shootings, weapons everywhere in some places and the people are quite brazen and theyre getting away with it. Theyre pretty sure that it a shoot, they can get away with it, so we have to have a Police Accountability and overlake Police Enforcement where it belongs. The troubling part is you start seeing this Police Enforcement that seems to have no rhyme or reason. We go to one town, police arent forcing every minor offense, you go to another town, it is wide open. What is the rationale for Police Enforcement . What is the strategy meant . Is there a costbenefit analysis or are the police just doing whatever they want to do based on the kind of a way of . Host 202 is the area code. If you are a Police Officer, we would love to hear from you 202 7488003 is the number. Our guest is Eugene Odonnell, now at John Jay College of criminal justice, a former Police Officer from the new york city Police Department. I also want to get your comments commentsction to the of alicia garza, the cofounder of lock lives matter movement. She talked about the criminal Justice System and the criminal penalty rates for those incarcerated in american prisons. Here is what she has is a incredibly expensive. One thing i think democrats and republicans cant agree on is that it is an incredible waste of money. Certainly, not an effective use of resources event all of the things that we are trying to make sure have resources and funding. That seems like an opportunity to me. Though,e to be honest we talk about the bipartisan movement, we have to be very conscious of the fact that incarceration is also an industry and business. Until we remove the profit motive from putting people in cages and keeping them there for years and years and years, and then having them under surveillance for years and years and years, we are not going to make much progress. Even in a bipartisan movement. That is something i think we need to be paying attention to moving forward. Host that is part of the debate that we are seeing with the president also saying that the socalled three strikes out and incarceration rate needs to change, especially for younger individuals who have a challenge a chance to rehabilitate themselves. Guest we have to get away from ideology. I know it is hard. We have to be pragmatic, lawful, healing. Our system is discriminatory system, but it is also we have to be blind. These conversations are very important, but in the meantime, we have parts of the country under siege. There are a percentage is to people that need to be incapacitated otherwise good sense of horrible message. [indiscernible] president , to his credit, going into the prison system for the first time. We should see our system and maybe this is what we are seeing. Maybe the more we see of our system, whether it is police video cameras are inside the police and prison, the more ashamed the are. And we should be, because it is terrible in so many ways. At the same time, we have to deal with the beloved disregard for human life, to not care about the communities they live in and drive people out of those communities. Business will not invest, you cannot create jobs, Public Safety has to be the platform to build a better society. Host tony is from illinois. Good morning. Democrat line. Caller good morning. First of all, i want to complement our officer as centurions. Those guys have put their lives on the line and wrist so much for us, but i think training is critical. In chicago, there were a lot of officers in the 1960s and 1970s, shooting young people just because they flashed toy weapons. What the protocol was for a while was to shoot them in the maybe the first and or the foot, and may, handtohand combat or close quarter combat where the officers were able to disarm mentally ill individuals with an air pistol. They have to take that risk. They are our servants, but those guys are the heroes and we have to be backing them up. We cannot be protesting against these men who risked their lives daily. These funds that should be set up for them. They need their equipment, they. Eed the proper training all thewhere does funding come for all these weapons in the high crime areas . Why is there not tag on ammunition, like 5,000 a bullet . Host we will get a response. Thank you, tony. Two issues on the table, Eugene Odonnell. Guest you can simultaneously support the police and beat second by ad results that ended the deaths of human beings. Departments, it is incumbent on them to rein in the daily force every which way they can, to learn lessons from other countries. We have police got managed to talk people down and do not have to use deadly force, so there are lessons there. Weapons like a taser is an option. If you look at the biggest Police Department in the country, new york city, you are looking at the department that is extremely well restrained in terms of daily force with firearms. Very few shootings, a few dozen a year in a city where they get 5 million calls and people are armed. The Law Enforcement establishment this is a defining moment for them to begin to put Human Dignity at the center. By the way, Human Dignity of their officers, which is often lost in the conversation. Host our guest served as an insert at the Police Academy in new york police area and assistant da for the queens District Attorney office. He is currently a lecture at the John Jay College of criminal justice. Eugene odonnell is joining us from chicago. Lauren is an, minnesota. Good morning. Republican line. Caller good morning. I do not think they should be so quick to blame these policemen. They have dangers jobs at stake. There is violence, drugs, guns going on. How do they know which ones are armed and which ones are not and did they will behave themselves and if they cooperate and behave themselves, they would not put themselves in that position. I think we have such bad behavior out there. Behave themselves and they will not get in trouble with the cop. That is what we are supposed to do. Thank you. Host did you want to respond, sir . Guest i would just say that it is true there is bad behavior, and violence. If we look at some of the incidents we are seeing and the people who ended up dying, those of the most trivial of events. I hope we can get the partition the partisanship out of this and see the humanity involved. Imagine getting a call in the middle of the night from somebody saying your loved one was arrested and died in Police Custody . I think most people would want to know, how did this happen and why did this happen . We have had this tremendous focus on the last minutes of these events on who did what to who and issued or dont shoot, whatever, but we need to look at Political Engagement oversight, asking in cincinnati, apparently, the Campus Police were patrolling in city with the agreement of the city people, the city fathers and mothers of cincinnati. That is a terrible idea to have Campus Police people that are to do one job,ed doing another job in the city, a city that happens to be under an incentive creed because Even City Police have had problems sorting this out so they do not profile. We need to ask elected officials in a nonpartisan kind of way to simultaneously support police, legitimate policing, but also to do oversight. It is important to say they have effectively only legitimized themselves by doing some of this helterskelter policing that does not seem to have a rationale or a strategy to it. Host we went to draw attention to the couple of stories related to this on the New York Times front page and in the section of the newspaper and online. Shooting ofling the Michael Brown one year ago. , one of the underlying issues involved in this debate, many minority families are stuck in poor neighborhoods, despite the housing voucher programs and how that cycle of poverty is impacting the criminal justice rate in missouri and around the country. Next is wayne from pennsylvania. Go ahead, please. Caller i was up in the elected judicial system for many years i made someand observations. Obviously, everything you are saying about poverty needs to be addressed, but i will jump past that. To me, that is one of the big issues. We have to make sure that the police are properly trained in terms of all the details of the be, id there has to think, a lot more emphasis on justice rather than winning the cases. I think they are under cases to win rather than incher justice toserved rather than ensure justice is served. About, forg concern example, people have been left out of prison due to dna. Why does it take 10 years, 20 years to get dna testing . To me, there should be a system automatically getting that to guilty or notn is based on dna evidence. Why do we have to wait . Doesnt the incarcerated why does the incarcerated person up to wait five years or 10 years . That doesnt mean the state sed to pay for everyone the state has to pay for everyone but there should be a system where they should get it quickly. Host thank you, wayne. Guest the whole idea of stopping somebody, arresting somebody incarcerating somebody over the last 20 years, became not such a big deal. New york city kind of pioneered this. The more enforcement, the more arrests, the better we are. That is a fundamental mistake and the fundamental violation of the bill of rights. As the caller indicates, weve got people that go behind bars or many years and we find out they should have been exonerated. Seems like we should be doing a lot more careful policing, a lot more careful prosecution. We have the highvolume system that almost inevitably compromises its integrity. When we have the cases, real cases such as we have in homicides and shootings, we are either not solving them or sometimes charging the wrong people, so the priorities have to be looked at. Again, the police cannot be left to their own devices. This in this provides Political Engagement and needs to be reined in and sold people by elected officials. Ont we are focusing ferguson, missouri, one year later. I want to share two headlines from the Kansas City Star and from the the st. Louis post. Lewis from pensacola, florida. Democrat line. Good morning. Caller good morning. How are you doing . First off, i want to take my hand up to the people who wear a vast. One of the things that we really personally,o, doing a profile on the god before they put the badge on him. I wore a batch for five years and i got started with a Company Called [indiscernible] and in order to get the position that i got, i had to go before to federal marshals. What they did, they put me to the test to check my temperament. To see if i was someone that would lose my cool quickly if i got in a confrontation with somebody. And they pushed it to the point that they had me angry enough to want to fight, but i managed to contain myself enough to show them that i had the ability in the face of being insulted or whatever to not lose it. As aperson who person who wore a badge, i have been spit on, custom and a lot of times by my own black people. Host we will get a response. Guest most big departments and most small departments, at this point, do active background. Some do better backgrounds than others, psychological testing, Field Training when people are hired, assessments in the academy and some departments actually it creates problems in recruiting because they screen out so many people, but we will have to look at who gets into the job and we will have to look ts the job. In the firestorm of criticism the last 18 months and the retelling of the police in terms of cameras and the like, we are going to have to ask if idealistic young people will be attracted to police work. We will probably fill positions but will we get the right people . As we have these reforms and hopefully nonpartisan conversation, we have to recognize that we will still be hiring humans who are fallible, who have their own issues, that is just the nature of the work we do, but we want to get the very best and brightest people in the police business. If we bash the police, if we try to criticize them at every turn, that is not going to help recruiting. Moree way, we need to have men Police People and i would argue that that kind of badgering has the most bad in policenority folks careers, so we have to have this reform conversation. At the same time, i recognize we continue to need the police. Wealthy people by and large do not need the police, it is in the poor neighborhoods where the police are going to be most in demand. Post,n the washington a story called black and unarmed pointing out that unarmed black men are seven times more likely than whites to die by police gunfire. You can read the full story at washingtonpost. Com. Bill from cincinnati. Good morning. Caller seven times more likely to be unarmed. The increase of Police Interaction with african american, just like the gentleman said before, if they would just behave themselves. Daddy. Ice are not my they do not tell me how to behave. These Police Officers talked to people as if they are god. When you ask somebody for the police, [indiscernible] i think those kinds of laws should be changed. Host thank you. We will get a response. Guest obviously, this is a big issue. All the more reason why it when Police Stopped people, there should be a legitimate reason for doing it. It should not be done willynilly. Because it is a big deal to be calling somebody over, potentially searching them. Idea e circuits, the there are surrogates. The idea of blaming individual officers is disingenuous. Obvious the, Police Officers some officers handle it in a way that is not good, but the truth is that legislators in every state, not only have an active list, but keep inactive list that require police to be more involved in people is lives and it is a difficult process. It is not workable to have a system where some people doperate and some people not. It is incumbent on the police to deescalate and not pick fights of people. I think Mental Illness is a huge issue that police the with all the time. Being able to diagnose situations you are dealing with when somebody on the most routine matter is slipping out and freaking out what might that be about and also trying to get in and out situations without them and a badly. At the end of the day, we ask the police to do some of this work. A lot of this work we are asking them to do it as our surrogates. When we have these conversations that are not helpful suggesting that police are equal to other people, they are not equal. They work in, judges are not equal people in front of the courts and the police and citizens are not equal in those interactions. It would be hard to come up with it another way. Like some people suggest there is the quality, you are in some cases creating a why are you pulling me over dont you have anything better to do mentality. Host if you are walking the police the streets of new york as a Police Officer, would you have we do become people having a body camera on your . Think the reality is body camusso be inevitable. I think for the police that are put in figure situations where it their physical safety is in peril and they do not know the ending, the suggestion of the body cameras is that when you look at the video two days after the event, the police know all the things that are going on. The truth is, the work is unscripted and for every ending where you can side police abuse, there are endings in which Police Officers are killed. I think it is really going to change the job. The idea that the police have nothing to worry about if they are acting properly is not worn out. It could it requires political people to tell people what the police are doing, to talk about what the laws are in terms of defending themselves, and that has not happened a lot in the last year. The police have been left out on their own. In some cases, we see elected officials grass standing against the police and blaming the police. Not that there is not misconduct, but this has to be evaluated. Also, we are having conversations about these events with our tragic and awful, but many of the conversations have been more visceral, emotional, and the facts in a criminal case catch up with the visceral later on. You find out in a lot of cases that once the facts are in, cases become less clear. Cases that look immediately shocking and outrageous, selfdefense cases from police or civilians, anybody who has been a prosecutor can tell you that selfdefense cases are always complicated and become in. Ear as facts roll unfortunately, the media, in some cases, has not been interested in getting the facts out to make that assessment. It has been running with the headline first and getting to the facts later. Those facts do not always catch up with the headline. Bet on wednesday, we will traveling to richmond, virginia, and taking a closer look at the richmond Police Department on wednesday, august 19. You can check out all of our Schedule Information at our website on www. Cspan. Org. Taking a closer look at policing in the capital city of virginia on wednesday, august 19. Joan is a Police Officer joining us from new york. Good morning. Caller im actually a retired court officer, so i got to see what happens at the end of cases. As revenue producers, that is creating distrust and resentment with the public. People just have that distrust and resentment when they see people who are there to protect them, so the rank and file getting their instructions from their supervisors, becoming revenue producers is one problem. When you get to the court houses and courtrooms, it is a merrygoround, especially with misdemeanors which outnumbered felons. Felony cases. Until you have more people in those courtrooms to handle all of these complaints and arrests, you are not treating it fair. We all know that it is judges that are the only people that can incarcerate people, so when judges do not get an overview on whotheir treating people have been charged with crimes, that is a problem. The judicial system cannot handle the amount of arrest, and until that is handled, you will continue having this merrygoround. I saw people who could not make make bail wait years to get in the courtroom to have the case this post of. The reason for that, many reasons, the main reason, you do not have enough people in courthouses and courtrooms and all branches of all agencies to handle the amount of arrests. As far as the brown case goes, one thing about the brown case that really got me was the fact that those prosecutors gave those jurors, the grand jury, two sets of instructions. It is amazing to me that nobody talks about the fact that they got instructions about a grand jury, what the grand jury should decide and how to decide giving an antiquated set of rules at first and then giving the tennessee versus garner said of rules the second time. Whatw mr. Odonnell knows that means. To live for the time and if you want to address this, you have to create more courtrooms, judges, and people involved in the courts. Thank you, cspan. Point thatke the this system is overburdened. I think you are suggesting that it is absolutely true, but the truth is, i think, that we need to have Police Enforcement that is smart and goes after legitimate, serious offenses. I think the truth is, if you talk to Police Chiefs and people isthe police is this, there a lot of junk enforcement. A lot of lowquality arrests and this is especially in the country when we have 18,000 Police Departments. Some departments are notorious for making unfounded arrests, week arrests, or spurious kinds of charges. At the same time, even in their town, seriousss crime they are not solving, so we need to have a look at this deceit, how is it that the police are involved . The common denominator in the incidence that have generated so much public attention is that they should not probably have happened in the first place. Lawenforcement should have been directed in these ways, in the first place, these are not desperados that ended up dead at the end of these events. Some of these were the most trivial of trivial offenses. Smart criminal a Justice System. By the way, we need the criminal Justice System that has good alternatives to incarceration. We need to catch people young people early you have anger management problems, addiction problems before they go behind bars. We need a nuanced approach. More is not necessarily better. There are a tremendous number of junk arrests every year. Att our guest is a lecturer John Jay College of criminal justice. One year after the shooting death of Michael Brown in ferguson, missouri. From new york, independent line. Good morning. Caller good morning. How are you today . Host good to hear from you again, sir. Caller i want to thank everybody behind the scenes, who makes this discussion possible. Mr. Odonnell, i want to hit of the points because you mentioned a whole spectrum which i think needs to be addressed on a but in a different context that the court officer, who just spoke eloquently, to the point really needs to be looked at. Point i have worked for over 25 years for human rights courts to include not only women, not only who are not included in the founding of this country, not only black africans, not only disabled people like myself or lgbt people that still cannot fully visible, but the bad Police Officers. We have protected in this places to let people do and things, america is addicted and you keep putting into oldline skins, or as i say to the of people who do not understand that, you coffee into old filters. First, people, you keep using the term minorities. And humanity is a collective noun. We went from a color game to a numbers game. The police are only a flagpole on top of a structure in the system that was never allinclusive. The not want of raising white flag, the red flag, or the confederate flag, but if theyre going to stand for a flag that says liberty and justice for all, first of all, we have to have a system that includes all the people. Second, if i may, on places, i i comeom statins im from staten island, the same precinct that strangled to death eric garner, put a nine millimeter gun to my head and it took 3. 5 years for me to stand up and even lie down in front of judge michael brennan, the only judge in new york state history to be censored by the state judicial review board to prove that it was a long arrest, as you say, and i was just coming out of visiting to people from ghana and was wrongly charged with disorderly conduct. In terms of places, it has to be uniform and we do not have Fire Departments or fire inspectors after the fire. We cannot cap special prosecutors or civilian complaints review boards. Those were turning kids those were host i will have to stop you there because we are short on time. Always good to hear from you. To live. The issue is, how do cakes and how to make it work for people . There are a percentage of people who are not comfortable with the notion of police. I do not think that is the mainstream and i am certain it is not the mainstream in communities that called them all the time. There was a pullout the last couple of weeks thats a 60 of africanamericans feel safer when they see the police, so that in the midst of all of this controversy and criticism, that tells you what you have to build on. If you have to build relationships and build interactions. The idea of simply critiquing this to death of having a root cause conversation for some elite of0 for an people, they can afford to do that. People who live in communities throughout the schedule themselves, in terms of Public Safety, schedule when they go to the store, schedule how they move around on public transit, where the kids go, they do not have that luxury. They live in the real world. In the real world, we need a police and criminal Justice System that works and we need to figure out how to fix that in a nonpartisan way. And i have to say in a colorblind way. We have to see this system and that people behind our bars, incarcerated, they are fellow americans and we have to view this system in that light. Host time for one more call. Also on the line for Police Officers, bob on the phone from new york. Quick question because we have a minute or two. Caller my question is for mr. Odonnell. One of the things i was in disagreement is what he said about the junk arrests. We were out there, we were told ,roken windows and the lights and those broken window, small arrests, led to bigger arrests. We were also told that people with scanning license and those same people were going people down. Some of those things we were told is totally contradictory, so the junk arrests, it is the officer out there doing host thank you. We will get the comments. Guest cops have been used and abused about people who have the arise and created const that. Have created comstat. That was terrible Public Policy that went on for years. As, every once in a while, minor rest doesnt generate something more significant, but it is a costbenefit analysis. To simply do it and have the numbers and say, we did 400,000 stops as you, lets do 500,000 net income 600,000 the next year, that never made any sense and the proof is in the pudding. The city of new york, in particular, has done a lot less enforcement and hopefully they are doing more smart enforcement, targeted enforcement. For the most part, the city continues to be supersafe. Andcity has been supersafe near 400,000 fewer minority people who have been able to go about their business without police stopping and searching them. Host in any Police Department in the country, one piece of advice you would give them based on everything we have talked about. Guest never forget it is a great job. Never forget your ability to make a difference and that people rely on you. Do not listen to all the noise. Follow what you know to be true, people in the community will support you if you are there for the right reasons. As long as you are therefore for the right reasons and try to do people, therefor is no more honorable job in the country. Host Eugene Odonnell, a former you a former new york city Police Officer and long career in the Justice System and our lecturer at the John Jay College of criminal justice joining us from chicago. Thank you for being with us. Guest thank you, steve. Host we will continue the conversation tomorrow at 7 00 a. M. Eastern time. Including a discussion on Media Coverage of the president ial campaign. Tim graham, executive editor of and Eric Boehlert will join us in two separate segments. To talk about your money and broadband coverage for rural areas, what it would take and what is involved. Newsmakers is coming up next. Be sure to check out our full schedule online at www. Cspan. Org next, newsmakers with new jersey congressman Frank Pallone. Then president obama speak at speech at American University on the Iran Nuclear Agreement. Then senator Mitch Mcconnell on the Iran Nuclear Agreement and the senator Senate Record so far this session. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] this week on newsmakers, frank alone joins us from new york. They do for being with us. We also have in studio with us , Energy Reporter for politico, and emma dumain. Certified could begin with what the president announced earlier on his Climate Change plan. Do to ourat it would viewers, and what impact it would have on the state. And reaction it got