That way in your book . Mr. Chernow when i started working on the book i read it to i ran into a friend who said to me, how can you write a great biography of someone who wrote a great autobiography . That stopped me in my tracks and i thought about that comment for many days. Then i realized that it actually helped to define the direction of my book because i realized that what my job was to do as a biographer was to zero in on the silences and the evasions. It is not really a biography. It is not really an autobiography. It covers the mexican war and the civil war. I ended up zeroing in on those things that grant did not want to talk about, particularly his lifelong struggle with alcoholism and his repeated his repeated business failures. Host i want to start out concentrating on the end of his life. I believe it was 1883 he was a twoterm president and he slipped on the ice. You also tell that story. What is it . Mr. Chernow a cascading story cascading series of crises that happened to him. He was about 61 years old. He and his wife julia were living in manhattan in a town house on east 60 six st on east avenue. He comes home and it was christmas eve. He turns on the icy pavement to give the driver a christmas tip and he trips and either tore a muscle in his thigh, he may have dislocated his hip, but he is never quite the same again. For weeks or maybe months afterwards he is hobbling around on crutches. One terrible thing after another happens to him. Host what was grant and ward . Mr. Chernow he entered into a partnership with a young man named Ferdinand Ward. He was only 29 years old but he was already a legendary character on wall street. He was the Young Napoleon of finance. He had already entered into a Business Partnership with grants with grants youngest son buck. Grant, throughout his life was in incurably naive person, particularly when it came to business dealings. It seemed like every confidence man in the universe had xray vision when it came to identifying u. S. Grant. The name on the shingle is grant and ward, but the person who is not only doing all of the business transactions, but who alone has the power to sign checks and has access to the vaults is Ferdinand Ward. A lot of people invest in grant and ward because that is the name of the great unit in Union General and former president. Sadly, grant was so trusting and so enamored of young ward that grant invested his life savings in the company. His three sons invested their life savings. Numerous cousins, sisters and friends of confederate veterans invested their life savings. Grant went to work every day. He went to wall street and reported their regularly and regularly. There this firm seems to be the most successful on wall street. He should have been more skeptical because Ferdinand Ward was promising people rewards of 15 20 per month, not per year, so this was clearly a warning flag. It turned out to be a massive ponzi scheme. Turned out to be day. Ernie made ofoff of his oneoke up morning morning to discover that all of the profits were fictitious and that he was worth exactly 80. Host you say that he went to vanderbilt for money . Mr. Chernow for happen right Ferdinand Ward came to him before the firm went bust and borrow 150,000. He said the money was to bailout the Marine National bank, which was the main bank of the firm. In fact, it was to bail out grant and ward. Grant grabs his crutches and goes off to see vanderbilt who does give him a check. Grant assures him that he will be repaid within 28 or 48 hours. Only to find out that the firm went bust. Grant was so innocent that he later said that, even on the night before grant and ward went bust and this whole sham was expose, had no inkling that there was anything wrong. He said he had such implicit faith in Ferdinand Ward that it took him a day to believe in the reality of what had happened. He kept imagining, as did his son, that ferdinand would materialize and explain the whole thing. This was an interesting site of a man who, during the civil war, could be shrewd in sizing up his fellow generals and the opposing generals. It is something of a mystery of a man who can be so perceptive about other people in certain situations, but in business situations seem to lose all sense of skepticism or reality. Host when did he discover he had cancer . Mr. Chernow it was about a year before he died. It was really just a few months after the whole grant and ward debacle. In the beginning, there was something preening and egotistical about writing your memoirs. All of the civil war generals had rushed to publish their memoirs, two recent. One to cash in on it and to put in their preferred version of history. Those two events being wiped out financially and then being diagnosed with cancer of the throat and tongue. Very excruciating and terminal. It made grant think that when he really died that his wife julia would be left in destitute. It was at that point that he decided to write his memoirs. I dont think he initially realized the commercial potential of what that was. The first publisher he spoke to from the century magazine who proposed writing his memoirs said, you think anyone would be interested . The publisher said, are you kidding, general . Do you not think people would be interested in napoleons battles. We are jumping ahead, but it ended up earning 450,000, which would be 10 or 20 million today. This was probably the greatest of the 19th century. The only one that mightve rivaled in totaled sales what a been uncle toms cabin. It sold more copies, more quickly than any other book in the 19th century. Grant slightly underestimated the commercial potential of the book. Host how did he discover that he had cancer. Mr. Chernow he and julia had a cottage in long branch, new jersey. In june 1884, they were sitting out on the pr is a test they were sitting out on the porch and he bit into a peach and he said it stung me. She thought maybe there was an insect or something that kind in it and literally stung him. It was the first that he relies to had the cancer. He tried to, at that moment, rent out his mouth. He thought that would remove the sensation. This is a very, very excruciating form of cancer. He made the statement that swallowing a glass of water was so painful that it was like swallowing lead. Anything that he ate or drank was difficult to swallow and digest. He was on the shore in new jersey. His next door neighbor had a doctor visiting and he examined him and told grant that he said consult his physician at home. Grants doctor was traveling so he did not go to his doctor for four months. It is really rather amazing. I wonder in the book and to you right now, was this a case of stoicism . Because grant was able to indoor and a norm us amount of pain throughout his life without complaining. Was this more of a childlike fear of been news and escaping from it, we will never know. Given the fact that there were rather severe symptoms and he had a nagging cough that do not go away. It was understandable. Cough that goes on for several months we would all be curious of whats going on, particularly if there are accompanied by very painful swallowing. It just got worse and worse. Host how many cigars did he smoked a day . Mr. Chernow during the civil war, probably his first great victory. He surrounded fort donaldson and the surround her confederate armies surrounded 14,000 troops. In the accounts of that battle, grant had a cigar stub, which he had gotten from an admiral at breakfast that morning and was riding around the battlefield with this cigar stub. It was featured in different journalistic accounts of the battle. It was the First Union Victory celebrated and all of the northern cities. People out of the blue began to send him cigars. In fact, find cigars. They sent him 10,000 cigars. Grant was more of a pipe smoker, that he had oral cravings throughout his life. 10,000 cigars you smoke, so he began to smoke 20 cigars a day. At the end of the civil war, with a great feeling of virtue, he announced he was cutting down his consumption to 10 cigars a day. He was pretty much smoking the entire day. The last year of his life, he gave up the cigars and said it is very difficult to say goodbye to these fragrant things that have been a solace and comfort to me throughout the years. He really loved smoking, but i dont think there is any question that it was a cigar consumption that led to the cancer. One of his doctors was convinced that it was the cigars and told him to cut out the cigars. Host once he was diagnosed with lung cancer, what could they do for him . Mr. Chernow in terms of treatment, very little. There was no treatment, they would keep swabbing out his mouth and trying to remove debris and cancerous tissue. There were a lot of Different Things that they could do in terms of pain relief. The used cocaine because it was numb the area. It went on and he used opiates. One of the interesting things was that he started writing the memoir and found that as soon as he ate or drink anything he would be in agony. As soon as he was in agony, he would have to start taking morphine and other opiates. That would cloud his brain. What he got into the habit of doing, with great current and fortitude, he would go with four or five hours without eating or drinking anything. That was to avoid the pain and not having to take any pain killers that might interfere with his mental clarity. I dont know if any book has ever been composed under such horrific circumstances. It is a masterpiece. Even mark twain said the style of flow no man can improve upon it. It was a memoir that deserved to stand alongside caesars commentary. Many commentators and readers since then have agreed. Host go back to when you said he was 61 and he slipped and fell and had to go on crutches and died two years later. Then he loses all of that money and is down to 80 in his account. He was in a house on 66 st in new york. What did he do any had no money . Mr. Chernow they close up the house on east 66 street and fired the servants. He did get a 1000 gift from a veteran in upstate new york. He said this 1000 is for Services Rendered for april 18, 1865. He was a veteran who wanted to thank grant. Before he started working, he did articles for the century magazine called battles and leaders of the civil war. They had about four different battles. When he wrote the first one, i think it was on shiloh. He sends it off to the editors. Grant had never written professionally before. The editors are disappointed and dispatch an editor to speak with him. The editor said that grants first article is a very dry and bloodless one. One of his civil war military reports with no life. The young editor says, kind of enliven it with your personal impressions and observations and impressions of people. Grant was a very good writer. He wrote every speech he wrote as president. He prided himself on his writing. A kind of became a revelation that one could gossip a little bit and have fun a little bit, and set the scene and describe the personalities that he rewrites. He is the pupil of the genius. He rewrites it. He will have the moment to experience the joys of authorship where heat feels the freedom and where our imaginations and emotions come into play. That happens to grant. It is considered a classic because of its literary style. It is beautiful, the descriptions are extremely clear and accurate. It is very moving. It is a very becoming modesty about it and profound. He was a mean that grant wrote that grants amazed wrote the entire appomattox section in one sitting. He said grant wrote that and we are not changing anything. It was 9000 words written in one sitting. He says to his friends, even on a good day, cannot write 5000 words. Grant is just an amazing person. It is character revealed under the pressure of circumstance. Grant said at the end of his life just how improbable it was. He said he never imagine that i would get any high grade and he ends up a general of the army. He never imagined he would going to politics and became a twoterm president. He said he never imagine he would be an author and now his book is going off to the press. Under the pressure of circumstances, he was extraordinary in many ways. Something would happen that would force him to do something completely new and unaccustomed. I find that it is an inspirational story for all of us, that we really do not know our own potential until we are tested. Grant did not know his own potential. I tell the story in the book that when he left west point he graduated in the middle of his class. His highest ambition was to be an assistant math professor. Not a full math professor, but an assistant math professor. He ended up having one million soldiers under his command who ended up being the only twoterm president between jackson and wilson who would write one of the most famous memoirs of the english language. I dont think anyone could have been more surprised by grants life than grant. Host you mentioned a woman by the name of michelle in the Manuscript Division at the library of congress. We grabbed a camera and went over to meet her. I want to run a couple of things that she had to say so we can see with the actual manuscript look like. What the grant family gave us, Ulysses S Grant in 1930, he 1920, he and his mother gave to us the handwritten manuscript that grant wrote himself. As he was writing his memoirs, he started writing them himself. Of course, because he had cancer in his tongue and throat, it became difficult for him to write because he was getting tired. So he would dictate. When it became too much to do that he went back to handwriting. Host when did you look at the actual manuscript . Mr. Chernow when i first started writing the book, i was amazed at how many people said to me, did mark twain ghost write the memoir . Host he was his publisher. Mr. Chernow yes, he was his publisher. I dont think twain was any more capable of imitating grant then grant imitating that style. The style was consistent with what he had written his entire life. When i was on q a, i went down to the library of congress and i said to michelle and the other curators, i said i would like to examine the original manuscript. They were a little bit reluctant as it was one of their treasures. I said this is very important. They brought it out and i looked through every page. It was the single most poignant stage of my research. Grant writes in a firm hand writing. As time goes by and with pain of the cancer and the affect of the narcotics he was taking for the pain by the end, his handwriting is beginning to slant and wobble as if he is standing on the deck. You really feel as you go through this that you are living through the final year of his life. It was all in grants handwriting. Towards the very end, his son fred and his stenographer, grant reached a point where it was hard for him. Twain said that his own he was a publisher more than an editor he said that his own involvement was restricted to trivial matters of grammar and punctuation. Host where did he physically write it and with what . Mr. Chernow he wrote with a pen. It was written after town house on east 66 street. And hisis son stenographer and his military secretary doing the research. They were bringing in an enormous number of maps and battle orders to help refresh his memory because he was writing about events 20 years before. His library and his townhouse was kind of full of all the documentation. His memory was quite extraordinary. There was a wonderful story about how good grants memory was. Mark twain always revered ulysses s. Grant. A senator from nevada dragged mark twain into grants office as president , it was not the oval office yet. Twain was really nervous about meeting grant and grant was sitting there writing something and he sits up and twain says to him, i am a little embarrassed by you. I think for about 15 years or so, they ran into each other at a army reunion in chicago. Grant looked at twain and without missing a beat said, i am not embarrassed mr. Twain, are you . There are a lot of stories, 20 years after the civil war of grant running into someone and saying, jones, i remember you from the second day in shiloh. He had a photographic memory for peoples faces and names. Maybe it is one reason why he was a good politician. Host i want to go back to michelle who has been at the library for 17 years. Do you remember when you went there to see the manuscript . Was it early in your research . Mr. Chernow it was later in the research. Probably three years ago. Host lets hear her describe some more about what it looks like. It almost looks like legal paper here. Probably in a thought process in writing. When you turn the page, you see it is a different piece of paper. By having it on a different paper, you can also see that he has made notes to his , he is writing it. It is almost an afterthought. He is struggling with admitting that this is a very bad assaults, or one he regretted. As he is writing a long heat thinks of this and says put that in later. Host will you write about that in your book . Mr. Chernow grant said this single greatest regret of his civil war decision was the assault on cold harbor where 7000 of the soldiers could have died in maybe a 60minute period. There were kind of instructions to put it in. It was something that grant obviously had wrestled with admitting in that he should not have ordered that. All of those years later, he was so haunted by the battle of cold harbor, which would haunt his reputation, even today. It was right outside of it was the end of the socalled overland campaign. The army is kind of moving south. Right before the siege of richmond and petersburg, it is that final clash where he tries to break through the lines of a brutal frontal assault. Lee had a lot of respect for grant, but that was one move where he was completely perplexed in what grant was doing. It was a catastrophic mistake. Host you tell a story in there about charles guiteau, who assassinated garfield. There is a lot about the convention. What is the story about him trying to go after grant at some point . Mr. Chernow in the book, i reveal that grant was stuck by alked by him before he killed garfield and John Wilkes Booth before he killed lincoln. He was constantly approaching grant. He was always described as this disgruntled office seeker. He was mentally disturbed. He continued to confront grant. And grant was warned about him. That this was someone who was disturbed and should have nothing to do with him. He actually came up to grants hotel room. Host was the president at the time . Mr. Chernow this was after. This was not long before garfield. He uses false pretenses to force his way in. Grant says, what are you doing here, i told you to leave me alone. He says, i want nothing from you but your signature, recommendation, or something. Grant recognized that he was a disturbed individual and did not realize just quite how disturbed until he turned out to be the assassin of garfield. He knew that he was disturbed but he did not know how to start until he turned out to be the assassin of garfield. Grant had criticized garfield publicly after he became president , and then he was shot and grant felt terrible. He had been criticizing this fallen leader. Incidentally, garfields wife was staying in long branch, so grant was one of the first maybe the first across the street and offer his sympathy. Die but hehe did not couple monthsr a afterwards. Grant had cases, including one described in the book, in the mexican war, grant have seen people in the war who were shot where they couldnt find the bullet, which was the problem they had with garfield. What grant remembered is that people who had bullets they couldnt find seemed to be fine for a while, and then would take a turn for the worse and die, which is exactly what happened. Alexander graham bell, all of these people trying to use different devices to locate the bullet. Something of course that is so completey, but was a mystery at the time. Host i want to go back to the writing of the memoir. What was the length of time between when he started writing it and he finished this memoir . Mr. Chernow it was a period of about a year. At first, he was writing for magazine, four articles. That would be incorporated into the memoirs, it was kind of a rolling process. He starts writing the century articles. It is a period about a year. There is no question that great literally will himself to stay alive to finish the memoirs. He puts down his pen about six or seven days before he died. The doctor suggested he go to a place called Mount Mcgregor in upstate new york, the cottage is still there for people who want to visit. They thought if he was in pinescented mountain air, it might have a good effect on his health. The last month or two of his life. It is right outside saratoga springs. A beautiful, scenic spot in the mountains. He would sit on the porch writing. The funny thing was, it was just a little downhill from a hotel called the balmoral, and he begins something of a tourist attraction for the residents of the hotel found that as they were wondering up and down the path, they can watch the former president of the United States dying of cancer and composing his memoir. Grant looked very dramatic sitting there on the porch. Host i want to show a photograph, and you have in your book, it has been shown for years and years, grant sitting out on the porch at Mount Mcgregor. This is in the summer . We see a blanket. Mr. Chernow this would have been either june or july 1885. Even in the mountains, it is extremely hot, it gives a sense of how bad his condition was. You can see his beard is grizzled. You can see he has a shawl or cloth on the right side of his face. What that was doing is he had a ofor bulging from the side neck that some people said it was as large as a baseball or two fists. I guess he felt selfconscious about the appearance of it, and there he is, composing his memoirs. It is an ordinary picture of him in terms of the seriousness, his determination, his intelligence and that he became obsessed with these memoirs, that he realized at first he was doing it maybe to save julia from poverty after he died, but after he got not waite almost could to get back to it. He was a perfectionist, he wanted it to be as good as possible. His output was astonishing. I also think there are a lot of things he said, and as im saying, he started writing magazine articles, the first was kind of a bloodless report. Then he begins to experience the joy of authorship, and the intense Emotional Experience of reliving experiences so emotional that we can almost not imagine them. And so i think what happens with any kind of writing is that when the emotion is a deep that is deep and true, suddenly beautiful language is formed out is forced out of us. There is the famous passage meeting lee at appomattox, and he talked about how sad he was at the moment, not jubilant. He said, i could not imagine defeat of aer the so valiantlyought for though they had fought withorst possible cause excuse. T possible more beautifully than i said just now. But it takes your breath away how gorgeously imperfectly he has stated something. But that to me as a writer, how deeply he felt this, and these were words that had been germinating a long time. I dont think he ever imagined he would be in a position of being able to express his very private feelings. Host one of our folks was up at Mount Mcgregor a few weeks ago. Here is a clip talking to a guy workingn camp who was at the cottage. You can explain in a minute. Clip] a really interesting item we have this room is grants original medicine is here, the original bottle and original substance. Most people guessed that what they were using for medication is Something Like morphine or a heavy set it is. The only problem was grant could not take medicine like that. It was too powerful and he could not concentrate on working on his book. So the doctors settled on a fairly new substance at the time, a little controversial, and that was cocaine. They would apply it topically on his throat so that he could get some pain relief and keep concentrating on his work. [end video clip] host we also have some video showing the living room which we can roll showing how we put two chairs together. How much pain was he in from what you can tell . Mr. Chernow that is significant. He would be kind of sitting on one chair and have his legs raised on the other, he would create a writing desk by putting a board across. The reason these stuffed armchairs were so important to grant was because he found it very difficult if not impossible to sleep in a normal, horizontal position. Because he would have a terrible feeling as if he was struggling. Strangling. E it must have almost felt like he was being waterboarded. He would be suddenly gasping for breath. He would often sleep sitting up, in a vertical position, it would keep the air passage open. It is amazing the amount of suffering he went through, and the last thing that the average person would want to do during that time would be a massive project. To write a long book like this, as any writer would attest, carries a very large weight on your shoulders. He was already carrying the largest weight of all in terms of mortality in worrying about providing financially for his family. It was really an amazing, amazing feat. Host you say just a few days before he died, he finished the book. What was the end of his life like . Mr. Chernow it was almost as if grant recognized at that moment that his work was done, and his life was over. They wheeled him out one day to a scenic overlook we could see a a numberyou could see of different mountain ranges. Just that exertion of rolling him, they came back, and it had taken a terrible toll on him. Luckily, he passed away very, very quietly. He left to julia a very difficult decision in terms of deciding what to do about his earthly remains. The grants had a kind of vagabond life. He did not have a fixed abode. He has been assigned to four different garrisons, they had lived in washington, he was moving around missouri and tennessee and virginia, mississippi, etc. There was not a natural resting place. Grant had very fine feelings toward new york, he felt new york had embraced him. But it really fell to julia. There were people who wanted him buried at arlington, he wouldve preferred to be buried at west point, but julia could not have been buried with him at west point. Galena, illinois, where he is had been living. Julia said she made the decision to locate grants tomb on the Upper West Side of manhattan for a lot of reasons. A lot of people would be able to visit it. Since she was living in manhattan, she would be able to visit it. Riverside park was new and the mayor said they can put it there. I think for julia, he was a real love match, beginning to end. For julia, the single most important consideration was that new york city is part of the deal so that julia could be buried, adjoining sarcophagi next to ulysses. When you visit, it is grant, but also julia grant. Line,ntally, that tomb . Buried in grants Groucho Marxs quiz show. Groucho marx began to feel sorry for the guests he would have on his show. He said, lets ask a question everyone could answer. He asked who is buried in grants tomb, and to his amazement, half the people got it wrong. Host you have been a fellow at Mississippi State, where the new Grant Library is. The Grant Library at Mississippi State . Mr. Chernow its an interesting story. It did not get as much publicity as one might imagine when it happened. Starting in the 1960s at Southern Illinois university, it began to create the First Edition of grants papers. It was published in 1967, i think the 32nd and final volume in 2012. They are fabulous. This is a great scholarly fee. They say in the acknowledgment of the book, i wish i could have thanked, if i and my other biographers look good, it is because of john wayne simon. Then Illinois University decided to shop the papers. It is 250,000 grantrelated documents. One of the people on the board of the Great Association who supervises the papers, an emeritus professor of history at Mississippi State. John and Mississippi State made a strong bid for it. So the grant papers, lo and behold, ended up in the deep south. They just created a beautiful this is the first annotated edition of grants memoirs. Long overdue. Isnt that a beautiful cover . John and his staff, they call it the grant president ial library, have done an outstanding job. They have shown me every courtesy. They show it to everyone who shows up there. I have met john and the people there, i asked them if there was a controversy when grants papers were moved to mississippi, and they said no. John could only remember one person who made an issue of it. They have done a great job. Host we asked michelle about you mr. Chernow uhoh. Host no. Here is her answer to working with you. Do you expect a Broadway Musical to be made of this like Alexander Hamilton . Michelle [laughter] i think you would have to ask mr. Chernow, but i think it would make sure he was in perpetuity on the 50 bill, for one thing. Brian so when is the grant musical going to hit . Chernow i dont think grant is going to end up as a musical. He does not move to hiphop beats. I think would be a very good subject for a feature film. I think with hamilton, aside from Linmanuel Mirandas genius, hamilton was young and dashing and handsome and romantic. He was a perfect leading man for a musical. Grants life moves to a very different kind of beat. He was plain and laconic, and the charisma of ulysses s. Grant was that he had no charisma. The drama very often is that he was not dramatic. He is no less fascinating, no less deep than hamilton, but he reminded me more of george washington. George washington had a similar reserved, enigmatic quality to grant. Host youve been involved with the Alexander Hamilton musical. I dont know if you are willing to tell us, how many books have been sold . Mr. Chernow more than a million as of last year according to my publisher. Very unusual and wonderful for a serious biography. I feel very fortunate that i somehow got swept up in this whole hamilton phenomenon, it is a gift that goes on giving. My relationships with the producers, the creative team, all the various casts, there will be six Different Companies doing it soon. It is opening in london in december so it has Gone National and is about to go international. Host it is coming to washington. I want to ask you about some politics. This is Linmanuel Miranda during the Campaign Last fall. There are 10 things you need to do number one register to vote and its on you post that hillary sign up on your lawn number two call some undecideds with your crew your cousins in ohio maybe try and flip em blue number three watch hillary examine the terrain watch her campaign with the man tim kaine in the membrane [both] tim kaine in the brain host why did a broadway show get into politics . I mean, that was a fundraiser for hillary clinton. Mr. Chernow that is a good question. When the show started out, we were all, we all made an agreement we would try to keep the show and the promotion and marketing completely nonpartisan. That we did not want to show to be perceived as either republican or democrat or liberal or conservative. We were hoping political figures from both sides of the aisle would come. As it turned out, we had many more democratic politicians than republican. Lin has been very active in recent weeks, with the hurricane, the puerto rican Hurricane Relief and has made some strong statements about the president. That has been a kind of official change, i still like to think that it is a show for all americans. Hamilton ans american musical. I would hate for people to come or not come because they are republicans or democrats. We had this muchpublicized incident when mike pence came, just a few days after the show opened. A member of the cast made a statement from the stage that i thought was eloquent and thoughtful. Confrontational. Host we have that statement, i want to run this so people can see it. Vice president elect pence, we welcome you and thank you for joining us here at hamilton an american musical. We really do. We, sir, are the diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope this show has inspired you to uphold our American Values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us. [applause] host no worry that the other side would not come to the play. Mr. Chernow i did not know about this in advance, i woke up the next morning and read about it in the newspapers like everyone else. I do know and this is part of the whole secret sauce of hamilton, we had a cast that was overwhelmingly black, latino, asian american, biracial. And of course, many members of the cast are gay. I think in addition to the people who did not vote for trump kind of worrying whether multiculturalism would be honored, it was these feelings i think were particularly acute, understandably, with these casts. So i certainly understand where they were coming from about this. In fact, it was not clear whether mike pence was in a theater or had left and was in the lobby when the statement was made. As i recall, it was on a friday night, and on sunday, he gave an interview with fox news in which he was very complementarity complimentary about the show. He said he was a great history buffs and it was a great show and he loved it. He was actually very president ial in responding to it. But mr. Trump over a 48 hour period tweeted four times about the show, and one of the tweets said that he heard the show was vastly overrated. [laughter] mr. Chernow which is kind of funny. We went through a period where some from people were boycotting the show, and antitrump people were saying please do, maybe we can get tickets if you boycott. I hope it is behind us. I still fervently hope that every american will feel this is their show. Host one last piece of video, it involves you. We will watch this and ask you to describe to us what you did this. Why you did this. Clip] there comes a time when i and you can no longer remain neutral, silent. We must speak up and speak out. Like many other historians, i have been deeply disturbed by the trump campaign. Demagogues rise and sometimes rise to the heights of power. He is saying only i can solve these problems . Nothing is more antithetical to americas founding. What is especially different about donald trump is that he is not a patriot. One of the things donald trump is not is a populist. Donald trump is attuned to the white backlash against a black man in power. He is melvilles confidence man. He is the huckster, the shark. I dont know as much about trumps temperament, but he seems like a narcissist. [end video clip] host why did you decide as a historian to jump into this . Mr. Chernow it was interesting, this project was started by ken burns and David Mccullough during the campaign. Ken made an extraordinary speech at the stanford commencement, and he said as a historian, i guess documentary film maker, he said ordinarily we try to be completely nonpartisan, and we all want to have liberal followers and conservative followers. In my statement, i was picking up things i have noticed were absent in trumps words. Words of kindness, sympathy and compassion. There was much too much of an emphasis i thought of money and power and strength. And so i felt, it is not something i think any of us did lightly. As i said with a show, we want the show to be the show, we want people to be historians for everyone. But it was an unusual situation with trump. Host in my hands, the october 15 New York Times book review, and there you are, written by William Jefferson clinton. How did that happen . Mr. Chernow the interesting thing is, i met bill clinton a few years ago, when i was just starting work on grant, and he is a great reader of history. He said to me, who are you working on . I said, ulysses s. Grant. He had read grants memoirs, and he had read three biographies on grant. As we start discussing it, i could tell he really had read all four of those books, because he had really pertinent things to say about them. I recently was interviewed by the editor of the New York Times book review section, and i asked her how she happened to choose clinton, and she said because of clintons fascination with grant. I was deeply flattered to have a former president reviewing the book, particularly one who is really a student of american history. There are deep reflections, i think deep reflections not only about grant, but in terms of the continuing echoes in our national life, of a lot of issues raised by the civil war and reconstruction. I also thought for such a celebrated figure, bill clinton, it was an amazingly modest review. He really made it about grant rather than about bill clinton. He very carefully quoted the book. I thought it was a model review, not just because it was about me, but favorable, and it showed his scholarship and integrity as a student of history. Host the next book . Mr. Chernow i dont know yet, brian. Im trying to clear my head. Host there are 1000 pages that anyone can read that you have written. The name of the book is grant. Our guest has been ron chernow and we thank you very much. Mr. Chernow thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at qanda. Org. Q a programs are also available as cspan podcasts. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] if you enjoyed this weeks q a interview with ron chernow, here are some other programs you might like. A historian talks about his biography of president grant. 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