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Members may submit any materials they wish to be included. We may proceed. Ask forutset i unanimous consent on susan brooks and Ranking Member ted deutch be offered the opportunity to settle and question all of our Witnesses Today. I also ask for unanimous consent that representatives be sitting that biafran the opportunity to sit on a panel witnesses. Of our like to thank all witnesses taken time out of their busy schedule to be with us today on this very serious issue. I commend speaker ryan for bringing this important issue to the forefront and for tasking this committee to undertake a comprehensive review. Todays hearing is a critical part of that review process. And foremost, let me say that there is no place for Sexual Harassment in our society, period. And especially in congress. This is an extremely important topic and it will take all of us working together to effectively address this issue. I believe as members of congress we must hold ourselves to any even higher standard, a standard that demonstrates we are worthy of the trust placed in us by constituents and the american people. Sexualving accounts of harassment, including one of our Witnesses Today, reveals that Sexual Harassment is a problem in our society, and congress is not immune from this issue. Secret of the cultural capitol hill is unique, while there are 441 Employee Offices in the house among members and representatives. We should all share the common goal of creating safe and Effective Work environments that collegial, and responsive to the needs of our staff, constituents, and the public. The personal accounts described by current and former colleagues and staff suggest that not every office is achieving this goal. These accounts dictate the need for a comprehensive review of the houses policies and procedures, as well as the Resources Available as it relates to Sexual Harassment in the workplace. Sexual harassment Awareness Training is not mandatory for members and staff. There is also concerned that victims of Sexual Harassment are not aware of the Resources Available to them. Processe criticized the to adjudicate claims of Sexual Harassment. We will hear from two members, victim ofas a Sexual Harassment while a congressional staffer, and one who specializes in litigation, Sexual Harassment cases, before being elected to congress. We will hear from the office of compliance and the office of house employment counsel, to entities responsible for providing trading training and resources to staff. The office of compliance is an independent agency established by the Congressional Accountability Act to administer and enforce provisions of the act. While the office of compliance is responsible for educating and training members, staff, and the public on workplace issues, there are issues like representative spear and norton, who have spoken about the need for the office of compliance to do more. The office of house employment counsel, located in provides resources for members and chief of staff, as illustrated the entire office. In addition the house of employment counsel represents employers in the complaint proceedings. Resolutionss and have been introduced in the house, seeking changes to the process. Traininghich making mandatory for all members and staff. According to the office of it is widely acknowledged that antidiscrimination and antiretaliation training for employees provides many benefits to the workplace. Education directly impacts employee behavior. A comprehensive Training Program continues to be the most effective investment and organization can make in reducing complaints and creating. Ore Productive Workforce i believe we need mandatory training. More organized and comprehensive approach to address Sexual Harassment in the Congressional Workplace. As i said at the beginning of my remarks, the hearing is just the first step in our review. I look for to hearing from each of our Witnesses Today on both panels. Mr. Brady, i will now recognize you for purposes of an opening statement. A thank you, mr. Chairman. The congressional work they should have zero tolerance for Sexual Harassment and any kind of discrimination. Thats why i was one of the first sponsors of the congresswoman from californias resolution. Our current agenda termination deserves respect and attention of members of congress. And her plan deserves action. I thank you very much for being here today. Proposalesswomans requires mandatory training for members and staff. It will also require the office of compliance to get back to us on the program. This Bipartisan Legislation is the first step. I want to emphasize this should be a first step. I hope we can also look at ways to strengthen and clarify our dispute resolution process and other ways to support the office of compliance, including with additional money. I have supported additional provisions for the office of compliance. I think our witnesses for being here today, and im glad mrs. Beer will be joining us on the dais after a panel discussion. The Ethics Committee will have a role to play in holding all of us to the highest account. I you back the balance of my time and look forward to our witness testimony. I now recognize Barbara Comstock for the purposes of an opening statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. In recent weeks Sexual Harassment and Sexual Violence by powerful men come to light as never before. People have named names and there is a renewed recognition of this problem and the need for change in a culture that looks the other way because of who the offenders are, whether it is ,ill cosby, Harvey Weinstein kevin spacey, or one of our own. I have been an intern in this a staffer, ibeen have been a council on committee, and i was a member. I appreciate we have already committed to mandatory Sexual Harassment training. We have a consensus of a need to have improved training, training materials and practices , making sure we get better reporting, a better response. More importantly to protect the victims. I know we will be exploring that in weeks to come. We need to know more about what is actually happening and make it easier for the victims to come forward. We know there are so many who are in the shadows or forgotten because their situation may have happened at a time where less attention was paid. I had the opportunity to talk to serena, who filed the First Successful Sexual Harassment complaint 30 years ago against representative jim bates of california and his recent interview and roll call. The women in our office had same experience, but only she and one other came forward. Speaking with her and seeing how brave she had been, you cans can hear the pain still in her voice in telling that story, but you can hear the strength and resolve. Women need to hear that and know that, and know that we will be here. I think its important we name names. Rumors, people have heard these rumors for years. This had been something that happened to her, until i heard her story in the new york times. Her, but i was here in the time of bob packwood. Charlie wilson, you can teach him to type, but you cant teach him to grow groep grow breasts he used a more vulgar term. A member who is here now, i dont know who it is, but it is somebody who i trust that told me this situation. This member asked the stafford bring them over so materials to their residence, and the young staffer, a young woman, went there and was greeted with a member in a towel, a male, who then invited her in. At that point he decided to expose himself. She left and then she quit her job. Situation, what are we doing here for women right now, who are dealing with somebody like that . This is a much more complex situation. We need to have more training and know about the violence. People get into the criminal you have a crime, and when people know that. And then a much better process, so this person doesnt have to give up their career. She was talking about how she was very strong and didnt do anything. Left theiromen who desired profession altogether because of what had happened. So mr. Chairman, i really appreciate you giving us this opportunity and i know we are going to have more hearings. I think it is important we do that and hear more from the people who have been in the shadows. The gentlelady recognizes. There is no question that Sexual Harassment in the workplace, including congress, must be addressed, and i want to thank chairman harper and Ranking Member brady for this important hearing. Thank Bradley Byrne and jackie speer for coming before us today to help us examine how we can make improvements to our policies and procedures for preventing Sexual Harassment, as well as investigating complaints was they are filed. Harassmentexual training is a good first step, but it is not the end. Sure victims can expeditiously have their grievances heard and this is especially important because about harassment is power. Its not just about sex. Its about abuse of power and staff andorking others need advocates just as powerful on their behalf. Datory compliance mandatory training is overdue. And elizabethuz warren can agree. We should also be able to agree on our side of the building. The Online Training is a small part. In study after study shows person training is where you have the most progress in changing workforce behavior. We need to do a better job advertising resources that are available. But we also need improvements in makerocess once people do a complaint. I just have a special word about congresswoman jackie speier. , i worked for congressman don edwards. It was a wild and crazy time. We had the impeachment of richard nixon, the war and the disruption and the like, and one of the things that jackie has talked about now, and i give her assaultcredit, is the she suffered. It is so important that she had the courage to speak up about what happened to her and i know that that has encouraged other people to step forward and take heart and know they can speak up, too. She is a terrific leader. I yield back the balance of my time. The gentlelady yields back. Anyone else on the republican side . Harperk you, chairman and reiki member brady. I am really pleased to be part of this hearing today. We know in the house Ethics Committee that the house does have difficulty addressing reported and unreported sexual are devotedand we , toliminating harassment ensuring that our members are trained and have better training and we need to ensure we are protecting the victims of harassment when it does occur. Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by our code of official conduct. Let me repeat that. Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by the house code of conduct. Two separate functions as they relate to Sexual Harassment. Educatione advice and i cannot report on the number of these instances raised with the it is to conduct investigations when allegations are made, and should someone be interested, they can contact to investigation. I look forward to learning from this hearing ways that we can improve the house generally in how we can ensure we take the Lessons Learned into the house ethics process as well. And i would like to commend the three members here who have just shared and all started as staffers. It is important. I was not a staffer here on the hill. Diet never worked on the hill prior to coming to congress. I think its very important that the three of you are here representing housestaff with strong voices. So, thank you, and i yield back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from maryland for the purposes of an opening statement. Thank you for calling this earring. I also want to thank our distinguished witnesses for their leadership and perseverance in dealing with this issue. Nation is in and of role uproar today over Sexual Assaults and harassment. To the studios of liberal hollywood to fox news, there is a tectonic shift taking place in womens unwillingness to put up what prior generations of women were often forced to accept as business as usual i think the general public has seen enough, to well, and wants action. We must be leaders in changing the culture of harassment and assault, not just by legislation, but what we do in our own workplace. Justice brandeis once said that we are the omnipresent teacher. It leads by example. Mr. Chairman, Sexual Harassment work is a pervasive problem. It is estimated somewhere between 25 to 80 5 of women have experienced Sexual Harassment in the workplace. And lets be clear that is whether it is quid pro quo or hostile workplace harassment. It degrades the social status of women. To think that this body is be naive atne would best. , there were reform policies devoted to adjudicating complaints. One woman did not know as Single Person in her age group who had not experienced Inappropriate Conduct in the workforce. As businesses create harassment free workplaces we must lead by example in the public sector. A critical first step is mandatory Sexual Harassment just as wetraining, require ethics and Cyber Security training. Of thisroud cosponsor resolution, House Resolution 604, the congressional education resolution, and i would urge the measure isopt this the house did last week. Examine existing dispute resolution processes, which recent incidents suggest may still be a deterrent to reporting. I am eager to hear more about what can be done and i understand there are multiple reports on the table. Learn how we can Work Together in a bipartisan forto create a workplace all of our employees. Thank you. The gentleman from maryland yields back. I would like to introduce the witnesses on our first panel. Representative jacky spear serves on the House Committee as a member of the subcommittee of. Ilitary personnel she received her ba in Political Science from the university of california at davis. She has been and continues to be a tireless advocate for womens rights. Her presence. Representative Bradley Byrne district. Studies at duke university, he received his law degree from the university of Alabama School of law. He has overseen multiple Sexual Harassment investigations. The committee has received your written testimonies. You will be given five minutes to present a summary, and to help you keep time, you know how it works. Five minutes with one minutes ago and it will go yellow, with and left, it will go read we certainly want to thank you. Recognizewill representative spear. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Let me say how impressed i am. Complex. It is important to note that two out of three Sexual Assaults go unreported in this country and oftentimes Sexual Harassment leads to Sexual Assault. , i havered my own story had numerous meetings and phone calls with members and staff who havewomen and men, been exposed to this oftentimes illegal behavior. There are two members of congress, republican and a mccracken right now, who served and publican and democrat have now, who serve and engaged in sexualharassment. These propositions such as are you going to be a good girl to having private parts grabbed on the house floor. All they ask in return as Staff Members is to be able to work in a hostile free Work Environment. They want the system fixed and perpetrators held accountable. I have been working on this issue since 2014 and i believe there are three steps Congress Needs to take to fix this egregious behavior. To introduce response training for members and staff. Existing office of compliance Online Training is a starts, but its not adequate. Research has found effective innings requires interactive dialogue. There is already legislation coauthored by many of you, hr 604, and i would you give special thanks to Ranking Member brady, Representatives Costello, and others, for their leadership on this issue. In my experience, working on sexualharassment and violence in college campuses, in academia, and the military, surveys are conducted regularly thehe key is evaluating effectiveness of reforms. That is why congress should enter a survey every few years. We must also look at the broken dispute resolution system. The system is not appropriate for the 21st century. Process, current congressional employees are at confused and at worst, they are utterly betrayed. Oc. T he reports to the you have mandatory counseling for 30 days. After that, you are required to i underscore required, sign a nondisclosure agreement before you begin mediation. Then you have mandatory mediation for 30 days. Initially the harasser and the member for office are represented i house of Representatives Council by house of Representatives Co unsel. Now listen. How does that commute. They are provided free legal counsel. The victim is not. How does that compute . Survivors do not have the option to be in separate rooms and survivors are often addressed in an aggressive manner. Counsel is charged for advocating in this committee seems to be a conflict of interest. If it goes this far, they go another 30 days for a cooling off. At a cooling off period. Days have elapsed and that employee is still required to work in that legislative office, or they are not eligible for services through the oc. Interns and fellows do not even have this process to access. They have nowhere to go. After the 30 day cooling off file a then you can complaint or you can have administrative hearing where the settlement is approved and you move forward. So, for the few survivors to is no a settlement, there disclosure of the office involved or the amount of funds. The bill. Foot there is zero accountability and zero transparency. I might also add that during that process, the victims cannot even communicate they are going process, toooc their family, to their friends, to anyone in the religious community. Its no wonder staffers do not seek this process. Finally, as one of them said to me, i am a single mother. I cant afford to lose my job. The thought of being blackballed in this institution, the thought ,f things subject to reprisals all of that has an effect. I really feel it is important to move forward, not just with training, but with a comprehensive reform. I would like to enter into the record with unanimous consent this record from 15 1500 members of staff. If you flip through the pages, you will see that they range back in the 70s all the way to. He current time without objection. With that, i yelled back. Thank you, congresswoman for that powerful and incitement testimony you have given us today. The chair will recognize representative Bradley Byrne for an opening statement. We look forward to hearing from you. Happening inhat is the private sector. The chair recognizes you for five minutes. I appreciate the opportunity to testify. [indiscernible] in 1986, sexualharassment was recognized by the Supreme Court is a violation of title vii. Congress passed the caa subjecting us to title vii. Based on current research, i would to make a few observations and offer some of my own suggestions. First, mandate training. I strongly believe the house should require mandatory sexualharassment training for all members and employees. Recent events have demonstrated the training, while available to isbers of congress underutilized. Different levels of training for different offices. It is my opinion that this committee should settle on one highquality product to make sure all house employees are trained in the same manner. Number two, we should consider a harassment policy. Its a near universal norm in the private sector. Eachu are aware, Congressional Office is an independent hiring authority and each office has its own policies. Given theque unique nature of house employment, its my opinion that a uniform policy based on the caa and applicable to all house members and employees would be much more effective in curbing unwanted sexualharassment than the current patchwork of policies we have throughout offices on capitol hill. With a universal policy, the training of house employees could be simplified inmate consisted across the house. Number three, we should examine the Congressional Accountability Act. It has been over 20 years since congress enacted the Congressional Accountability Act. I believe this is an opportune time to revisit and consider revisions to the statute. The statutes are different than those addressing private Sector Employment and other public employees. Itthe private sector, laws against discrimination. The process begins by an agreed having the charge of the eeoc. Mediation is not required for either party. Mediation is not requested or is unsuccessful, the eeoc has an investigatory power, including subpoena power. Investigation is complete, the eeoc has the right to be a case on the individuals behalf or to issue them a right to sue letter, allowing them to bring litigation. They do not have investigative authority. The caa requires mandatory counsel. We should work to bring the oc process and authority in line with that of the equal Employment Opportunity commission. Other revisions would include subjecting our unpaid workforce such as interns, pages, and fellows to the acts of the insight to scrum nation provisions. Given the constitutional nature our offices, it is my opinion we must exercise our constitutional duty to discipline our own membership. We should develop a policy in our code of official conduct. It would send a signal that member on member sexualharassment would not be and the members of this body would support harassment being reported to the Ethics Committee. A settlement or judgment is paid by the taxpayers. Personally, i find this acceptable. If a member of Congress Settles a harasser or is found liable as a harasser, it is my believe they should be personally liable or required to repay the treasury for such damages. Furthermore, any pavement out any payment out of the treasury should be made in a manner that is fully transparent. Finally, it is my opinion that powerthe inherent differential between a member and their staff that they supervise, we should include a strict prohibition on members engaging in a sexual relationship with staff under their direct supervision. Happy to sharem my observations. We would be happy to provide more information to the committee as necessary. I would like to use a ne for your byr testimony, and congresswoman, we want to thank you as well. We know this is such an important issue and you have given us much to think about as we go through this review process. So, with that, we will excuse you, and i believe congresswoman dais. Will move up to the in going to excuse myself. I am going to excuse myself. I want to thank our witnesses on me second panel for being here and taking the time to come discussed thise very serious issue of how we will prevent Sexual Harassment in congress as we go forward. I would like to take a moment to introduce each of you. Mrs. Barbara Childs Wallace currently serves as the chair in the office of compliance. She received her undergraduate from Purdue University in 1973, her jd from loyola in 1977 and highest honors at George Washington university in 1979. Mrs. Wallace has worked since 1983 in the field of labor law, giving her 37 years of experience in this area. She also served as the chairman of the labor employment section of the mississippi bar. We welcome you, mrs. Wallace. She received her undergraduate from new york and her jd from George Washington university. She handled litigation for a large told communications company. She also served as an assistant Corporation Counsel representing the District Of Columbia in , and as anation attorney for the equal Employment Opportunity commission. We welcome you. The committee has received each of your written testimonies. Fivewitness will have minutes to present a summary. To help you keep the time, when i recognize you, the light will be green for four minutes. Timell turn red when the is up. The chernow recognizes for the mrs. E chair now recognizes barbara Childs Wallace. Mrs. Wallace good morning, chairman harper, Ranking Member brady, distinguished members. Congresswoman speier, congressman byrne, it is an honor to be here today not only the office of compliance the board of directors. The other members are from york and illinois and the District Of Columbia we were appointed to these parttime positions by the majority and minority leadership of both houses of congress that were required by the Congressional Accountability Act to each have professional expertise of the workplace laws that apply to the legislature by the cia all those in private by the cia. All five of us in private practice have decades of experience within the private sector and the federal government in both labor employment and dissemination issues. And discrimination issues. Sinceard has been serving 1999 and we work diligently and in a nonpartisan manner to ensure the rights of all individuals working on the hill, that they are protected. To thank the members of our staff, many of whom are here today. Mandate from huge the statue, which we approximately, in which we accommodate approximately 20 fulltime employees. They are equally committed to the task layout for us by the cia. I also want to thank the chairman was also my congressman from mississippi and from the chicago area by have practiced Employment Lawyer in jackson mississippi. Is nice to see a neighbor holding the gavel. Congress also testified treating our office in 1995 that was incorporated several workplace laws applicable in the private sector to the legislative community. This designates three primaries primary functions for our office. Groundsct the capitol and the legislative Branch Facilities to ensure that our community is free from occupational safe the and health and is accessible. Provide an alternative dispute Resolution Program to cover employees who seek to assert their rights under the cia. Hearing,inent to this our office maintains a robust and comprehensive outreach and Education Program to this community. In addition the cia mandates that we report to Congress Every two years on a recommendation for changes based on the labor Employment Laws in the private sector and the executive branch. Since 2010 our board has zealously advocated these biennial reports, also known as the 102 b reports for mandatory training how to prevent discrimination and retaliation of all sorts and the entire legislation community, the sort of training that is regularly performed in the private sector and executive branch. Satisfactionat that many lawmakers on capitol hill are responding to this recommendation. Before harassment can be corrected everyone must understand the meaning of harassment, how to respond to it, and more importantly how to avoid it. Consistent with statutory mandates in the legislative believesur board mandatory training on harassment discrimination and retaliatory will provide the best avenue to avoid not only conduct in the future, but to help transform the legislative branch in the model environment by where the lawmakers can and do lead by example. This concludes my remarks, and i asked my extended statement that the submitted to the committee i look for to any questions you might have and i thank you again. The chair will recognize that openingpurposes of a statement. Im one of the attorneys with the office of house employment counsel. Opec is basically an inhouse to each available and provideice advice and counsel on the various issues under the Congressional Accountability Act. And the question of Sexual Harassment. Are to help them prevent and address the issue of Sexual Harassment when it does occur. To very grateful to be here have the opportunity to talk about my office and the resources we use. Basically have three core functions, those are to provide counseling, to provide training and representation and litigation when employees raise claims of Sexual Harassment in their workplaces. The way it manifests itself, it is important to keep in mind. When we are called to talk about these issues i think it is a good model and we can speak frankly to us, we can learn the good and the bad and give them advice and counsel on how to address those issues. We talk about the issues and take appropriate corrective action and make sure the behavior stops. Sending an employee to training or discipline to a determination. Andthere is accountability house for individuals who engage in harassment. The other part of the role is to provide training on a request basis. The first officers schedule mandatory training and all new managers. We also do training. There has been an issue of Sexual Harassment. And we do it on a request basis. We do two types of training, one is antiharassment training. Thats on a request basis. , wes in person training have video where we stop the training in each of the sent each of the section. Understand howes it can be unlawful and how they can report that behavior. We do something called sensitivity training. So is racial harassment. Harassment based on individuals and religion. We also should discuss Sexual Harassment in the context of that training. Lastly we do training for managers. Managers have to navigate around a lot of issues in order to properly handle the issue of Sexual Harassment. They can also face claims by who have been accused of harassment if the office doesnt properly investigate the issue and conduct it in a fair manner. We Health Offices manage that. We do represent employing offices in litigation when an employee goes to the office of compliance. We know those cases as well happen because they have done anything in their power to correct the issue. They do corrective action in that context as well. I want to thank you for educating us as we go through this critical review process and and up with a plan hopefully decrease your workload in the process. The members will have an opportunity to ask questions and i will begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. I want to thank you for that insight. I have enough that i have a couple of questions. I want to describe the importance of each step in the process. Counseling . Rtant is and wise confidentiality important in this . The process is somewhat of a misnomer. Therapy to the person who comes in initiating the counseling step. Likelywho come to us are not lawyers. They dont know the statute necessarily and they need the assistance to see whether or not contextaims fit in the of the 13 laws that are applicable under the cia. I think i have been discriminated against on the basis of my age. Im 30 years old. Its a giveandtake to know the law. Officeso a time when the can explain what the proceedings are. Determineloyee can whether or not they want to go that route. Confidentiality is not meant to be a gag order. It is primarily for the office of compliance. We dont call it the Employee Office and see and say your employee has come in to see us about z. The employees still has the ability to go out and talk to their friends and neighbors and say my supervisor has done a bnc. It is maintained confidentially so the employee has the chance to learn the system, learn what the laws are. One thing about the 30 day period, that 30 day can be shipped cap because short. If the employee gets the information they need and say i know what im going to do, counseling, and it may last one day. It doesnt have to be a 30 day period. Talk about the mediation and what percentage of cases are resolved during that part of mediation . I dont have the specific statistics. But about 40 to 50 of the cases are resolved during the counseling or mediation period. Process is similar to mediation that the congressman has seen with the eeoc. It is not required that the employee attend. It is not required they sit in with the person they are accusing of Sexual Harassment, i have done countless mediations in my private practice. The mediator will go back and forth. I think it is a valued procedure. Why congress put it in there. It does not have to go 30 days. And themeet together mediator say this is not going to be resolved, they can cut it short and the next process starts. On the training you referred to, you obviously have Online Training. You also have in person training. Done in the d. C. Offices versus District Offices . We do training when the office asks for training. They will do it in d. C. And the District Office as well. The offices will contact you before they take employment actions. Before contact you regarding Sexual Harassment awareness . Wish all of our clients contacted us before. It typically does happen that way. We work with them to get to the underlying issue, to find out if there is any merit the allegation to do the investigation and take appropriate corrective action. You would come in during the mediation phase. You ever contacted before, or is it typically following what you hear from them . We will know that an employee will go to the office of compliance. What the courts have said is if an employer takes appropriate corrective action designed to stop the behavior they are going. O be insulated from liability sometimes employees are not satisfied with that. As barbara just mentioned, the counseling is confidential, but the employee can wave that and reach out to the employee. We will know about mediation when there is a notice of mediation issue. I have a question for both of you. It is important to have staff and managers participate in the antiharassment training for the betterment of the workplace. How it speak about relates to less complaints and better working place . That one. Ake i think its important employees understand what Sexual Harassment is. That they have a right to come forward and reported and it will not be retaliated against. And thats what training accomplishes. I think that will invariably lead to less complaints because an employer can address an issue before becomes a global process for gus to the office of compliance. Iran into a chief of staff that ive known since 1996 and she call me she has only ever had one situation with Sexual Harassment. I know there are many cases that go unreported. She said it was a staffer in the office, said it was something that was an appropriate. Often times if employees are aware of these issues it can be addressed at the earliest possible stage for the employee. We want employees to have a safe and Productive Work environment. At itss employee important for them to say please come tell us. We tell them how important it is to talk to your employee, to walk around, to respond to rumors. And then have a conversation with them. I agree with everything she said. The one thing i do want to add is training is yet another opportunity to tell the employees here is where you go if you have a problem. There is an entity called the office of compliance. People on the hilt of compliance is. If there is a trainer that says there is this body and this is where you go to make a complaint , there is no reason why an knowyee on the hill should onno reason why any employee the hill shouldnt know how to reach us. Complaints filed with the office of compliance are coming from nonmember and not Committee Offices such as the do you make Committee Members and staffers feel comfortable speaking up against harassment or discrimination . Training i have done in my thinke practice, and i she indicated the same thing, it can be a dialogue, it can be talking about what is appropriate and what isnt appropriate. To being that needs understood is there is the legal Sexual Harassment and there are bad practices. And a complaint that may not win still ruin they can the morale of the office. I think its in person training in particular that can go into both areas of what the legal and what is inappropriate for this particular office. I think one thing congas member and said in his statement about having a universal policy is very interesting. So everybody is working on the same page. And where do you go to complain within your office . Beecessary component has to what our purpose is in the whole process. That, if i may respond, it is important to have written policies. Is a Sexual Harassment policy part of the model handbook that this Committee Makes available the house offices. We were quick the Committee Staff to develop that. That policy sets out zero tolerance for this type of behavior. And tells employees of the consequences that they do. Training is vitally important. Its amazing to see how men and women have a very different reaction to the same conduct that they do in the video. When they have that dialogue it helps to inform both groups where they are coming from and why it is problematic and unwelcome behavior. Thank both of you. I yield back. I would ask you to pull your microphones closer to you. Chair will now recognize the vicechairman of the committee, mr. Davis. Thank you for hosting this hearing. To thank my colleague bradley, who practiced Employment Law in alabama. The comments and opening testimony were very well stated. And a powerful testimony for my colleague, jackie. And barbara susan, thank you for your testimony and comments. I think its long overdue, and i appreciate both of you and your opening statements, because no one should have to worry about Sexual Harassment in the workplace. One of the reasons i wanted to serve on this committee is to continue to professionalize the house and establishing workplace grounded in respect. I look for to discussing the potential areas and current policy that need improvement and air in the and any areas you suggest we need to make better. You, question for both of its important we get this right. They were concerned, some unintended consequence that some offices may take a shortcut and not hire women as a way to not avoid these issues. How do we work toward a true prevention of Sexual Harassment while continuing to make capitol hill . One of the things that is asmendous is to see it members. There is great wealth of experience and talent out there. It will not be of consequence of harassment. We have heard that. Discussions. Hose i think its very important to have training. That we dochnique training and hiring techniques. Thank you both. Us inlenged carrying out education duties . Im a former district staffer. How can we as a committee be helpful . There are several things. We of the recommendations have made with regard to these these are the kind of posters in workplaces and the private sector. And we hand them out and there is no law that requires anybody in congress to post these notices. They are a notice of rights. These can go in the District Offices. We do training with another outside organization. And also the online modules of training that we have been and continue to develop more and more can be taken by employees in the District Offices. What role does playing the investigative process. We work with the office to conduct the investigation, we give the materials. Not every situation is required that they learned this instruction on how to conduct an investigation, we work with them every step of the way. Offices are very comfortable doing an investigation. Talkinge some instances to two employees in figuring out what happened. Some arent quite as comfortable with investigation, so what we will do is we will help them demonstrate on how to get an outside investigator. Let me know i yield back. The chair will recognize congresswoman spear for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me ask you whether or not you end up representing the. Arasser our client is the Employment Office. At the end of the day someone is accused of harassment. The client is the Employment Office of the member or the committee for the house office. Let say members being accused of Sexual Harassment, you are representing the member. Do you think thats appropriate . I think it is appropriate given our role. We are no different than a private sector company. Under the congressional they are they act same as private sector employers. So the situation is analogous. When you are representing the member, it is your job to try to resolve this so that the member is kept whole and numbered and none of it becomes public. Are you in a position of saying to the victim, if you pursue this your carrier career on capitol hill is over . Is to get to the bottom of what is going on and to take appropriate action. We have had a couple of cases where the members are individuals accused of harassment. There are steps we can take to make sure the members act appropriately. Our offices dont have the possibility of disciplining the member, but the Ethics Committee does and leadership can interject in those situations as well. Settle a case between a member and a staff member, it never goes to the Ethics Committee, correct . A staffer can contact the Ethics Committee. Anyone can contact the Ethics Committee and alleged a number a member has acted inappropriately and they can kiss their job capitol hill can kiss their job goodbye. Certainly we assure we have the Employment Office and sure any employee that raises the claim they will not be retaliated against because if they are retaliated against them, the office can be sued for retaliation. Is true the staff member must be in Continuous Employment in order to access the services . I dont think that is correct. They are no longer employed by the house of representatives then ive been told this that , this office is not available to them. I dont have that information. Percentage of your mediations is between the members and staff versus staff and staff . I cant hear because of the background noise. What percentage of your mediations is between the member and staff versus the staff and staff . Overwhelmingly the mediation concern staff and staff. It rarely involves a member but occasions have occurred. We have been told that if you are accusing someone of Sexual Harassment that you are acquired required to be in the same room. Its only in cases of Sexual Assault can be in separate rooms. That is not true. You are not required to be in the same room. I can tell you for my office typically we go to mediation. Oftentimes we dont take the alleged harasser. If we find them to be more productive if we take someone else from the office in the management, someone who is familiar with the underlining issues. I dont find it to be particularly productive to have victimged harasser and a set across each other so that is not how we approach it. Have you ever counseled an accuser that if they dont want to be in the same room, the legitimacy of their clients complaints would be called into question . Can you give me that one again . Have you ever said to someone who is an accuser that in so doing it would cause you to wonder about the legitimacy of their complaint . I do not recall ever doing that. Really up to the employees council to make the decision about whether or not they want them to be in the room so it is not my call. I yield back. Thank you. The chair will not recognize congresswoman comstock for five minutes for the purpose of questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I also appreciate the testimony of my colleagues and the very detailed additional things we can do that congressman byrne laid out. One was giving them the members and the senior staff strict guidelines. So taking my example of the member in the towel, we dont have current guidelines right now that say to a member, sexual relationship with a 19yearold intern is off limits. Is that at all clear right now . I havent seen that in some of the materials. Just flat out the chief of staff cant. We have these young interns and young staff. It doesnt say you cannot have this in our office. I am not aware of anything that says that specifically. As someone alluded to, the code of conduct says a member and staff should conduct themselves in a manner that reflects the house would be relevant in the context, but i dont know of any specific writing. For any seinfeld fans of the George Costanza got fired because he didnt know that it was inappropriate to have sex on the desk in the office with staff. That is something that we need to make clear from the member on down. Wouldnt you agree it creates a hostile Work Environment if there is that kind of relationship in the office . No question about it. Say in this example i wouldve done with this woman did. Go find another job. Not everyone can do that. But if she happened gone along with this, then that is creating a hostile Work Environment. For the other women in the office. Of course. I would hope that an employee would feel comfortable complaining to whomever would be appropriate in those circumstances. The way the model handbook policy is written, the employees are told or asked to report it to either their immediate supervisor or anyone in management with whom they feel comfortable making that complaint. And i appreciate you highlighting how the videos and the interactive having people together. When i was in my law firm we have that kind of thing. I do think that is an important aspect of what we need here. As we are looking at this, any thetional for example, navy does a good job. Federal agencies have material. Perhaps it would be good for us to have other examples if you can provide it. Some of the things the other agencies and private sector are doing. I think that would be helpful as we look at this and then i also wanted to ask about the suggestions with an ombudsman i think it gets to some of the question your job is for the congress has told to be at this point and we are looking at how we might change that but if we are looking to have an ombudsman who is that victims support person and then it could be someone who says maybe this is a criminal case and you dont need mediation here. You need to go and deal with this legally, or here is the process of what you do if you go through if you were to go for mediation or these things. Have somebody who is really the victims advocate. If thats something you have seen in other workplaces could be helpful . I have seen it in other workplaces. At one time the Council Police have an ombudsman they could go to to raise concern. It could be a special model depending on how it is structured. Are you telling staff under our criminal cases here i know i mentioned as an interim staff when you hear criminal activity that went on, people would not go forward because they were afraid to. We tellsomething people its criminal, but letting them know all the things that are actually going on so they feel like they are not alone and can go forward. This has happened before. And to report something criminally. I can say for our office that is not our role. Our role is to provide legal advice and guidance under the Congressional Accountability Act. s or somebody clearly identifying when there is a crime . Im not aware. That may be something we really need to look at because it may just be if you have a situation where somebody thought i was out of the box, this happened, it was my fault. We need to tell them no, that was not your fault. With the gentlelady yield . Yes. One of the components that have the victim be represented by special victims council. Like in the military now, we have created that mechanism for victims of Sexual Assault. But also at that point somebody having that intermediary determination, like here are all the different places you can go. Heres the crime, but also have somebody to talk it out with before we this i what to do with the individual so they feel like they are covered more in some way. Ostensibly that is with the counseling component, the first 30 days of what is called counseling is actually legal counseling. Butan be one day, one hour, it takes place there but again im not convinced the system we have in place protects the victim at all. Agreed. The chair will not recognize the gentleman from north carolina, mr. Walker for 5 , minutes. Thank you for your prompt leadership in this important issue. I would like to thank my colleagues for the earlier testimony. People that have spoken on this important issue. Im grateful to stand with such staunch advocates to make the house of representatives a respectful and safe environment for our fellow colleagues. Decades,ster for two sadly i have heard too many similar stories over the years. This type of behavior should never be tolerated here or any other Work Environment. I think we should lead by example and set the tone for the nation and in leading by example, i was encouraged by the chairman to strongly encourage members of this committee so we have gone certainly our entire staff and im also the chairman of the republican study staffers aso all 28 well as myself have gone through some productive training and i hope that will lead to even more. Earlier this month the board of director wrote to the speaker of of how Senate President pro tem from antidiscrimination and antiprogress in training. Is mandatory training the most effective deterrent to the problem of sexualharassment . It is one component of it. I think that leadership from within each office is also important and letting the employees know where they can go to complain is finally important. Mandatory training is one very important component of trying to stop this. You say one very important part. In your research are you able to identify what you say is the most effective component of this . Probably mandatory training. Is there any deterrent you believe that would be equal or a part of this process . Posting these notices and letting people know who we are and where they can go is important, and then leadership from the top as to what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. If im correct, also in this letter to the board of directors , this recommendation has been made since 1996. Is that correct . We have made it many times and i cannot give you the exact number, but is in our biannual report that we recommend this. Can you tell me it was first identified in 1996 or earlier prompted concerns get this moving . I was not on the board until 1999 so prior to that i cant tell you necessarily. We dont have any records . We do have records and if the committee would like we can go back and look at all of our reports and give you the exact dates that we made this recommendation. Fair enough. In your opinion what can be made to the adjudication process and that is by the Congressional Accountability Act . Have i guess a different take from what seems to be happening. I think it is a very effective process. We have lots of cases that are resolved through that process. Loyment cases in general the overwhelming majority are result before fullblown litigation. I think the statistic is 85 of employment cases are result before fullblown litigation. I believe in this process. I mentioned this before that once someone goes to the office of compliance and we engage in mediation we may be hearing , about the problem for the first time. But we do an investigation and we get to the bottom of what is going on and we make recommendations through the office for corrective action. I believe the process as mandated by the statute and i think it works very effectively to address the issue of Sexual Harassment just as it does for other forms of discrimination. Thank you for your responses. I yield back. The chair when i recognize the tournament from nebraska, mr. Smith for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and thank you to our witnesses and numbers for bringing insight and as for tease to these very serious issues. We have talked a lot about the prevention preventative measures that can or should be taken. I was wondering if you can speak to what types of resources, limit it is funding or resources that either one of you think would help empower individuals throughout these processes . I appreciate you asking that question. Let me put it into the context of the office of compliance. If we are tasked with mandatory training throughout capitol hill , we write now have two employees who work on training along with other issues. It will be finally important that we attain obtain funding to add what we figure is tobably three more ftes help us do the training. And also helped with the i. T. Process. We are a very, very small office. Other things i think that the training that both of us do those are the resources that are , just essential. For my office, we do a lot of training. Weve gotten a lot of requests in the last several weeks. We do the training here and in the District Offices. We ramped up our training efforts. We have multiple trainings occurring in a single day. We have ordered additional equipment. That seems to be working very well. I think it is ultimately the decision that there will be a requirement of mandatory training. I really urge that for management. We may also need to have some additional staff hired to get that all accomplished. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields back and we the chair now recognizes congressman brooks for five minutes. You talked about the large majority involved staff on staff issues. Can you share with us at what point in the process the member is informed when a staffer comes to initiate the process when is the member rock into the process . The member is brought into the process from the very beginning. If an employee goes into the supervisor management, thats when it goes up the chain of command and the member will be informed. So we get calls from the chief of staff who has told us they have spoken with the member, or we get calls directly from the member. If it involves the chief of staff . We would typically get a call directly from the member. But if a staffer had come in directly, would you call the member if it involved the chief of staff . Actually we dont talk directly to staffers. That is not our role. Calls, weif a staffer essentially will encourage them to go back to their management and speak to them because management can address a lot of these issues. If they are not satisfied with that, they can go to the office of compliance. The only time we talked directly into employees is what we do employee training. Inquiryu do get that from a staff member and you do thatear from anyone after does anything have been . , we do followups to let them know that we heard from someone and there may be an issue in their office to look at. You both mentioned the large percentages of the resolutions. Resolutions prior to the litigation. Can you give us examples of resolutions . I can speak to that. If there is an allegation that a coworker is making inappropriate statements in the workplace or sending inappropriate texts or emails or things of that nature, we will have a management employee talk with both the person who is complaining about the behavior and the person who is the harasser to get to the bottom of what is going on and figure out with the appropriate steps 90 to address the behavior. And that could include counseling and training we do. We training. We did quite a bit of that. It could be training for the staff and it may also include some type of disciplinary action to reprimand to suspension without pay and termination. Thank you. Anything else that you would like to add with respect to the resolution . Sometimes in counseling, if we look at it not necessarily in the harassment context, but if , im notame and said for the saint anna as the males asmy office, it could be easy as once the employer is informed about it say we did not know you wanted it. Yes, lets get you on the next training on this. That is a more simple resolution that doesnt require a payment of money. And a settlement or Something Like that. Could bey changing for your supervisor is. The elected harasser can be moved to a different position so it is no longer within the line of supervision. One additional point. An important part of the resolution is to get back to the person who complained to let them know that the office has taken the matter very seriously and looked into the matter and taken appropriate action extra stops and remind the individual they cannot be retaliated against. And even if there is a remote hint of retaliation, they should come back to management to take care of it. Since im representing the Ethics Committee, you both mentioned improvements you make relative to coordination for the house Ethics Committee, and do inform the complaint complainant of the option . Is pursuing the allegation that the Ethics Committee . I have to admit im not as familiar with the ethics procedures. I do know that if someone goes to the Ethics Committee and wants to make a complaint they are most likely directed to the office, which i do believe is appropriate. I would welcome any kind of coordination between the Ethics Committee and the office of compliance to i think that would be wonderful on this issue. One thing i would also like to say in the context of all of this, we dont want to limit this training or the ethics coordination to just sex harassment. There are other kinds. It is the issue of the day and the most important one, but there is harassment that occurs in other contexts. Whether it is racial harassment, disability harassment, that the training should also address and try and stop. Yes, nothing excites us more than the fact that congress right now is looking at this issue from the standpoint of sex harassment. Any recommendation with respect to ethics . One of the ideas mentioned is the idea that there be a record of the employee having taken sexualharassment training. Much like there is one where we take ethics training. So i think that would be a great idea to coordinate with your committee to make sure that those records are maintained to show that employees have the training. I agree with that 100 . I think that is good. Thank you, mr. Chairman for including me. I was would like to thank the congressmans and congressman brooks for joining us for the steering. It has been helpful to have your participation. Without objection all of the members will have 5 legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses that we will forward and asked the witnesses to respond as promptly as possible so we can be a part of the record. I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. I note mr. Brady joins me in saying that mandatory training is a necessary first step to improving the process to address Sexual Harassment in the workplace here in the committee will continue to review the testimony, and ensure that the Congressional Workplace that includes not only the members of congress and their offices, but includes all the officers of the house, the architect the capitol , police. All of these things have to be included here Congressional Budget Office and office of compliance. All of these things are included when 1995 when Congress Passed the Congressional Accountability Act. This type of behavior cannot be tolerated. So i believe raising the awareness today we should start set the standard of proper conduct in the workplace and i hope this is the first step of getting there. Without objection i will recognize mr. Brady. I just want to Say Something to my colleagues from california that i do not agree with you. You said this is an uncomfortable thing for us to do. I have a wife, a daughter, two granddaughters and a great granddaughter. It is not uncomfortable. Moral responsibility and obligation to protect some of the elses wife, daughter and granddaughters. So i thank you and thank you for your courage here in thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Brady, and i associate myself with your remarks. Without objection, this year and is adjourned. The hearing is adjourned. [crowd noise] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [crowd noise] journal,s washington lit every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up monday morning, the Progressive Change Campaign committees pattern green adam green discusses 2018. Dingell griswold talk about employmentbased immigration policies. Also the Government Accountability office;s charles jessic will join us to talk about retirement savings. Join the discussion. Tomorrow we will hear from the spanish ambassador to the u. S. About the state of u. S. Span relations. That is live from the Potomac Institute for policy studies at 2 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan. Later that night, we will show you an event went u. N. Ambassador nikki haley and former secretaries of state Madeleine Albright and condoleezza rice. They were recently together for a discussion at the george w. Bush institute in new york that also included remarks from former first lady laura bush. Here is a preview. Recognize we have to we are dealing with a president of a country of russia who is a kgb agent. They know how to do propaganda. What they are doing is using information in a way to undermine the system, democracy. What they want to do is undermine the democracies in europe and separate us from europe, and i do believe they have figured out how to make our life more complicated in every single way through various new methods of tweets and bots. We are an open society. They are using our openness and how to we deal with it without closing down . It is a challenge for all of us to think through, but it is a change because we are being attacked and a new way through a new system. Watch the rest of that discussion from the george w. Bush institute tomorrow night at 8 00 eastern here on cspan. Here on cspan, newsmakers is next with Texas Attorney general ken paxton. That is followed by a discussion i have extremist groups are using social media as a recruitment tool, and what can be done to counter the threat. At 8 00 on q a, how conversation with musician and author darrell davis, to talks about his experience and motivation for befriending members of the ku klux klan. Greta the 51st attorney general of texas joins us today, republican ken paxton. Thank you, sir, for being here. Atty. Gen. Paxton thank you for having me on. Greta i appreciate it. We also have with us kevin diaz, who is with the houston chronicle, the washington correspondent for them, and josh gerstein, who is senior White House Reporter for politico. Josh, you have the first question, go ahead. Josh welcome, mr. Attorney general. I wanted to start by asking you about one of the programs or controversies you have been associated with most recently, which is the daca program for dreamers, litigation threatened by your Office Appears to have spurred the Trump Administration into winding that program down. At a hearing just a few weeks ago in new york, a federal judge seemed very perturbed by the way the wind down was carried out. He called it, unacceptable to me as a human being and as an american, and he also called the winding down of that program heartless. How do you react when you hear those kinds of comments about a policy change that many people view that you set in motion . Atty. Gen. Paxton daca is very similar to dapa. We had a lawsuit filed by our previous attorney general, who is now governor, governor abbott. As i was walking into office, we took that case from the District Court to the fifth circuit, and we won at both places. Then ultimately took it to the u. S. Supreme court and got an injunction to stop it. Ultimately, that was rescinded. It was rescinded largely because it was unconstitutional. Daca was no different. Whether you like these policies or not, ultimately it is up to congress to make these decisions, not the white house , not some agency. This was founded on constitutional principle. Whether you like policies or hate policies, ultimately, it is up to congress to make these decisions

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