It was proof that the White Supremacist Movement has been energized by mr. Trumps campaign. Proof that mr. Trumps campaign has unearthed some demons. The chant in charlottesville you will not replace us was an expression of paranoia over cultural displacement. It reminds us of what dylan roof said when he murdered nine people in a church, youre taking over our country. The chant, their antisemitism reminds of us one of the darkest chapters in modern history. I call the threat associated with groups like isis the most acute ones we face. I certainly dont take issue with director wrays calling it our main terrorism threat. But i worry that calling the threat from domestic extremist groups like those in charlottesville merely a steady one as director wray has called it may lead us to under estimate the danger that the current White Supremacist Movement poses. Not just to our physical safety, but to the very cowell soul of our nation. I worry that calling the domestic extremist threat merely a steady one may lead us once again not to give it the attention it deserves. Thats why i think the joint less resolution that this Congress Passed and the president signed is so important. The resolution recognizes the growing threat from racist antisemitic and hate groups in our country. It urges the president and his administration to use all available resources to address that threat. And it calls on the attorney general to prosecutor acts from prosecute acts from the radical right and to improve the reporting of hate crimes. That reporting id note is inadequate. The fbis recent report counted approximately 6,000 hate crimes in 2016. Yet the bureau of justice statistics estimates that asmany as a quarter million hate crimes may be occurring annually. Clearly we have a disconnect. As you know, the charlottesville resolution urges various things but has noenforceable provisions. Thats why its so critical that this committee hold oversight hearings in the very near future to ensure that the president is living up to the commitments he made when he signed the resolution. I would also ask this Committee Committee to recommend legislation similar to that which senator durbin has proposed that would institutionalize the focus on terrorism from the radical right within our federal Law Enforcement agencies. That threat is the oldest our country faces. Charlottesville demonstrates that its lethal and its likely to be with us long after we hopefully have addressed the threat of terror from groups like isis. It deserves a full measure of our attention. Senator durbin a bill would do many other things including preserving funding for the state and local antiterrorism program. Slat for short. A Critical Program that has been on this chopping block. As i mentioned in my written testimony, my colleagues and i of the Southern Poverty Law Center are representing the mr. T of heather hire, the young woman who was killed when a sprite supremacist drove his car into a cloud of protestors. Id rather have my child, but by golly, if i have to give her up, were going to make it count. Ill see susan next week in charlottesville and i look forward to telling her that this committee is committed to doing everything in its power to curb the threat of radical right terrorism in our country and to make heathers death count. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Cohen, this is a very important hearing. I think we have seen it before with tim mcveigh. Rabbi, thank you for pointing out my fathers sort of i view legacy of 32 Bombing Missions over the nazis. For the life of me, i dont understand this mindset of hatred and revival of the nazi spirit. That i thought we crushed in world war ii. I was recently there six months ago to see the evil that was perpetrated by the nazis and my father worked to defeat. When i see skin heads and neonazis, and White Supremacists, i am confounded how this could happen and its immoral and unacceptable. My grandfather was persecuted by the klan because he was catholic. Hatred in all forms, whether it be radical islamist ideology or this type of hatred cannot stand in this country and we need to unite as a nation. I want to thank all three of you for your testimony. First i want to ask the chief, you had what could have been a similar charlottesville on your hands. You had 3000 people show up to protest a confederate monument. Its foreseeable that both of these factions are going to come together. Youre going to have a lot of heated emotion. The potential for great violence. Yet over a period of a two and a half hour rally, we saw no violence. I think what you did is a model of leadership for how Law Enforcement perhaps working with state Law Enforcement can successfully prevent this kind of violence in the future. I just wanted you to comment on what you did that may have been different from charlottesville that maybe Law Enforcement officers across the country can learn when this situation enters into their hometowns. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First and foremost, i foremost we learn what happens in other locations. We took the game tape from charlottesville, from boston and from North Carolina and sat down and went through it and talked about those things that were right and the things that were wrong. We then strategized on how we address that with what we had coming at us. So some of the things we saw that were right, boston, their mayor and their chief did a great job of getting out in front and putting on the rules of what they would allow. They made a press release before the rally and said these are the things that will be allowed at this rally. In our assessment, they didnt go far enough. They had some violence still. Not as much, but they had some violence at that rally. And so we looked at all of that to determine how we will do ours. First and foremost was getting the information out through the media to the public and to these groups that were converging of what would be allowed. Second was taking complete control of the area that they were going to be in. We took control of that early on, so one of the things that we had heard from charlottesville was that they had some challenge with the areas that they were showing up that they didnt have control of. We went in and took complete control. And we cordoned off the area. The vehicle threat was real. We took care of that by utilizing our public service, putting dump trucks at every vehicle access point to keep those types of vehicle borne attacks from being able to take place. A lot of coordination and control. The coordination with our statespersons, with our local and federal partners as well on looking at intelligence information of these groups, what they were planning, what they were saying to each other and early on was important. Some of the other things was putting rules in place. We said there will be none of the things that we saw that caused the problems. So no sticks. No rocks. No bricks. No bottles. No firearms. All of that no mask. Nothing to cover yourself to keep yourself your identity from being known. All of that was important that we put that in place immediately so that people knew these are the rules. We learned that a lot of the supremacists didnt show up because of the rules. They didnt want to follow those rules, so they didnt come. Which was ok for our community. And so i think that the success was a result of that. Then a wellexecuted plan by our team. They did a great job of making sure that we had everyone safe and we kept control of the area and it was just a wellexecuted plan. Let me commend you for that. Let me commend you for that. A textbook model of how to do it right. I hope other place departments will learn from the good things that you did. I mean, i think its a great model. Rabbi, im a student of Counter Terrorism. I was a Counter Terrorism federal prosecutor. His first target was not the world trade center. It was 12 jewish synagogues, symbolizing the 12 tribes of israel. Pretty chilling. He decided to change that plan and go after the greatest symbol of financial might in new york and thats the world trade center. When he almost successfully brought the twin towers down, of course, he came his uncle came back and finished it. Sadly. And i know your community suffered greatly and this whole country did. Thats why this committee was formed in the first place. But the Jewish Community centers have been under threats constantly. Im proud to say this committee working with the Ranking Member doubled the authorization amount from fy 2017 for 50 million,100 increase over the fy 2017 also to what are called nonuse jurisdictions. I hope thats a step in the right direction. For you i we i think made great progress in that. But i would like for you to describe the threats that youre seeing currently to the centers and synagogues in this country right now. Well, first of all, i think this is an appropriate time to for the community to say thank you. Obviously its passed by law. There are appropriations, there are hearings, but i think for the Jewish Community, especially younger families who never experienced it before, its traumatic. Its longlasting. Like any hate crime. It has both the personal and the communal impact. It may be difficult for our nonjewish neighbors to understand as i mentioned in my testimony that its been three decades since jewish kids would be dropped off at a school where there wasnt an armed guard. And on a regular saturday morning, i prayed in a relatively modest sized synagogue in l. A. We were actually targeted by radicalized islamist terrorists from california prisons for an attack that got thank god was interdicted before it took place. The mindset for Jewish Community leaders, jccs, schools, temples and synagogues is to do your best with perimeter defense and to always have in mind i was listening carefully about the friday night football game, especially if its going to be a playoff and theres this tremendous energy. Our security has to be in place 52 weeks a year. That is society. Here we near the capital of our nation. Its one of our basic freedoms, freedom of religion. As i mentioned in my testimony, this is not paranoia. Its just reality. I know theres a lot of give and take, important discussions here about whats a greater threat from isis or is it from the nazi like types. Unfortunately, we have to grapple with both of them. We rely very heavily on local Law Enforcement, the anticrime, the antihate and terrorist units. And i think maybe the most important point i would like to sort of bring back to the one committee that actually still has it, we really need bipartisanship moving forward if were fighting hate in america. To have some sort of, you know, whats a greater threat, to whom. I think we need to quantify what the threats are. But we have to move Forward Together as americans to confront the bigots, the racists or the terrorists. Otherwise they win and we lose. If you look at charlottesville, the nazis came that night, or whatever. The groups came. They had a game plan. They werent worried about the law. They knew what they were going to do on the internet. They even had a way to place themselves in their own minds as victims that night. Did you know that they complained that they were by lawy pushed enforcement into it and thats how the whole violence began. When i look at that horrific piece of theater that was so incredibly effective for them, that was a group that did their own planning. And they understand the rules of the game. They knew what they wanted to violate. We live in a day in which because of the Internet Everything local is global and everything global is local. And as a result, whether its something in the middle east or the horrific events that took place on the bike school path in new york, when those things take place, every single Security Officer of every Jewish Institution across the United States has an immediate conversation with the rabbi, with the executive director. These are concerns that are not far removed from us on a daily basis. Thank you, rabbi. Chair recognizes Ranking Member. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Welcome to our panel of witnesses for this hearing. Mr. Cohen, can you give the Southern Poverty Law Center experiences with domestic terrorist organizations here in the United States, whether you see a proliferation of that ideology or organization and to . Hat extent what region of the country is it peculiar to if so . Thank you for the question. To answer the last part first, there is no region of our country that is not affected by hate groups. None. And thats quite unfortunate. Over the last 15, 20 years, weve seen an increase in the number of hate groups driven bee think primarily by the countrys changing demographics. Theres a backlash to it. You saw it during president Obamas Administration where he represented the kind of change that some people were scared of. It preceded him but was intensified during his period of time. After 9 11 unfortunately i think we saw in the country a retreat from a focus on the threat of traditional forms of domestic terrorism partly for an understandable reason. The horror and carnage of 9 11. I think the pendulum had swung to far. After charlottesville, i think it was a wakeup call and hopefully will swing back and we can take that threat more seriously. Thank you very much. The other two witnesses talked a little bit about social media and how that has become the weapon of choice, if you please, for a lot of these hate groups. Chief, can you give us your experience with this. Your organization experience. Absolutely. Social media has become the platform. It has intensified it was a great. It has intensified the voice of hate. Its become the location thats basically made hate a megaphone to the rest of the world. And it is a place where, as the earlier panel had mentioned, its where people are being radicalized. As the video that you showed earlier shows, thats the type of information thats being shared widely with individuals throughout the country. Before you would have to be, as you mentioned, in an area that may have a large group of these types of individuals. Now its wide open. Our experience is that they are theyre constantly bombarding individuals with those types of videos and trying to normalize that mindset and that behavior. Rabbi, whats been your experience . Thank you, congressman. Im here with my colleague rick eaton who i consider one of the worlds great experts on this issue. We put out an annual report that gives a snapshot of its called digital terrorism and hate. Thats the project. And included over the last few years have been report cards. So we name names and for a number of years twitter would get across the board f for doing nothing. Facebook has generally done a lot more than others. But theyre grappling with 1. 5 billion separate pages. We have always felt and continue to be convinced that an important component of fighting this virus has to be Silicon Valley, the individual companies. They cannot and should not hide behind First Amendment. Theyre in business. Theyre doing very nicely, thank you. I think increasingly, they recognize or have recognized some of their responsibilities, but they can do in their way a whole lot more than the combined membership of the United States house, senate, and the executive branch. Theyre very powerful. They have collectively created the most powerful Marketing Tool ever. And while after 9 11 we were extremely worried that our far right here would be mimicking the islamists, well it turns out that al qaeda and isis actually ended up mimicking our extremists when it came to lone wolf. That was a u. S. Idea and it was brought over to yemen. We know the results. But the internet empowers and validates the individuals, the conspiracies, et cetera, and its not so much at this point passing new laws. We have to really insist that our partners here, the collective genius thats giving us all these bells and whistles and social media and beyond, they have to be directly involved in degrading the marketing capabilities of the bigots, both local, national and globally. Thank you. Mr. Cohen, whats been your experience with those individuals and organizations and their use of social media . Well, as not surprisingly, the hate exists now on the net, and 2008, when president obama was elected, there are about 140,000 registered users on storm front, on one of the oldest new nazi websites. Today there are over 30,000 registered users. Theyre private businesses, they can do what they want. But all of them say in their terms of service that theyre not going to allow hate. Sometimes they say that is merely a Public Relations ploy, right . And so we try to get them to live up to their terms of service. Sometimes by embarrassing them publicly. Paypal, for example, was very slow to live up to its terms of service. But after charlottesville, when they got some bad press, they did. So we think its important to recognize that hate is growing on the net. The anonymity, the ease of finding hate on the net fuels it. The echo chamber, as rabbi cooper said. And i think its critically important for groups like us, not so much the government, but groups like us, to hold those companies to their terms of service. Thank you. I yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Perry. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks, gentlemen, for your attendance. Mr. Cohen, i was looking at your Organizations Mission statement. It says the splc is dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry. Among other things. And i would say that probably every member of this body agrees with you on that and those principles. Where we seem to disagree is that i think for most of us, certainly for myself, i dont quantify or qualify, some hate and bigotry is ok if its this organization but not ok if its that organization. And it seems to me in looking at your information let me ask you this. Why does it seem there are no left wing hate groups on your list. For example, on campus groups, like students for justice in palestine that have advocated for violence against jews. Why arent they on your list . Well, i dont know about that particular group. I couldnt answer that question. There are left wing groups on our list. Who are they . Well, first, it depends, of course, on what you mean by left wing. But, you know, for example, the nation of islam, the new black Panther Party are on our list. We also have certain anti semitic groups that identify with groups like isis. So i think that it is not the case that our group doesnt include our listing doesntinclude any left wing groups. We try to call hate as we see it. We limit our list, not by left versus right. But by groups that vilify others for issues or for factors such as race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion or the like. So your group your list also includes as hate groups mainstream nonviolence the Family Research council, and the Public Interest law firms Like Alliance defending freedom. But it doesnt list antifa or other anarchist groups that literally call for violence against individuals. Does that seem to comport to me, that reduces your credibility. Does it not to you . No. Let me speak to both of those issues, if i could, sir. You know, we list the Family Research council, not because it opposes gay marriage, but because it relentlessly vilifies the Lgbt Community and demonizes them with known lies and propaganda. Thats why we list them. But you dont list antifa. Yep, i was going to finish. But thats ok. We our listing of hate groups doesnt necessarily mean that they engage in violence, although we think that the anti lgbt propaganda is one of the factors that makes the Lgbt Community in our country the most likely to be victimized by hate crimes. Weve if you are familiarwith our work, we write about antifa often. We condemn their tactics. Weve ive said so publicly, and we do so always. But antifa is not a group that vilifies people on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or the like. So youre ok with antifa as long as they dont say things that you dont agree with, but its ok if they hit people on the head with a bike lock or set things on fire or riot and flout the law by wearing face masks. Youre ok with that. Of course not. And i said, we condemn groups like antifa. We write about them often. But you dont list them, right . Can i finish . Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We dont list them as hate groups. Are they on the hate map . No. No. Ok. Because theyre not lets move on here. Lets move on here. Ok. Ok. Google revealed in a blog post it is using machine language or learning regarding hate groups and events and is partnering with the splc and others in that regard. How does the splc work with google or its subsidiaries to modify search results of splc designated people or groups . What we try to get google to do is not prioritize hate groups. Ill give you an example. A few years back, googles algorithm was manipulated to have to rename the white house with a racist name. It used to be the case that when you would search for holocaust or jews, you would get a rash of information of antisemitic information. We tried to bring these kinds of issues to their attention. When dylann roof, for example, googled black on white crime, he didnt get fbi statistics telling him the truth of the matter. Instead, he got hate websites, such as that of the council of conservative citizens. So were trying to say to google, your algorithm is flawed or easily manipulated. But isnt that based on your opinion, sir . Well, i dont think theres any question but what mr. Roof ran across when he googled black on white crime. What about mr. Quarter kins googled your website and shot up the Family Research council, including shooting an individual there, and then said that he was inspired by your website . Look, were no more responsible for what mr. Corkans did based on reading our website than what Martin Scorsese is for what John Hinckley did. Youre no more responsible yet dylann roof read whatever he read, and that is held as responsible for what he did. Im not saying any of them are correct. But it seems like a breath taking double standard of which of youre used as a credible source for Law Enforcement, and youre testifying in front of congress, when it appears, obviously, that its only your opinion that you base your hate groups and citations on. Well, it is our opinion. Its an opinion that i think has a tremendous amount of credibility. There is no empirical evidence or data to back it up. I think thats incorrect. I think if you look at our hate grouplisting and look at the people we list as hate mongers that you would agree with 99 of them. Sir, my time is expired. I yield. Gentleman yields back. Mr. Caraya from california. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member. And i want to thank the gentleman for being here today in this most important issue of addressing terrorism, domestic terrorism. White supremacist terrorism. And earlier, the earlier panel spoke, made some points about preparedness, what they were doing, what they were not doing. I would like to ask you essentially the same kind of questions, which is from your perspective, is there something that the federal government, the fbi, that Homeland Security can be doing that we are not doing to address the issue of following these hate groups and making sure that they are not successful like they were in Oklahoma City . Yes, i open it up for quick answers to that question from the three of you. I think there are a number of things that the federal government can and should do. One, i think institutionalizing a focus on the oldest form of terrorism that our country is seeing. We dont want it to fall off, you know, the radar of the federal agencies. And you see it falling off the radar now . Well, i dont think theres any question but that it has after 9 11 to one degree or another under both administrations. I think theres been a bipartisan failure to devote the attention it deserves. You know, i mentioned to senator durbins bill, there are other vehicles that could do that. One of the good features about senator durbins bill is not only that it was required institutionalizing the focus on it, it also requires annual reports on the threat of white supremacist violence. I know mr. Rogers, who is not here today, there was a bill that went through this committee and was passed into the house, talking about having annual reports on hate on issues of terrorism. It should include a focus on domestic terrorism, as well. Im glad to hear you say that, because acting secretary duke just mentioned the blurring of that line. I think its absolutely correct. You cant focus on one versus the other. You know, every American Life is sacred, like all life. Weve got to make sure we go after every threat that there is to our citizenry. Congressman, id like to come back to a point. I dont know about anyone else. I was very humbled and impressed by the first panel, and how they stepped up over the course of the last 15 years in a whole different level to protect our citizens. But they were very careful to emphasize at every opportunity that theyre not in the ideology business. When you start getting that level, where you have that kind of power to find out what citizens are doing, its a good idea to have that kind of red line and firewall between that kind of activity. I think what this committee could look at, and certainly the reason im sure everyone here, naacp, all of the ngos, everyone involved with civil society. We stand ready to try to fill in some of that on a volunteer basis. If there would be an appropriate whether its through the Fusion Centers, the appropriate platform toactually inform the various federal, state and local agencies about who is who in hate. Who are the players overseas who are impacting on individuals here and then go about threatening people in the local community. Theres a lot of information that is available. See, thats a very interesting concept. Because thats essentially what we need to do with the googles, the facebooks of the world. Which is on a volunteer basis. We just we cant legislate to keep up with technology. But if we can figure out how to get these folks to step up and volunteer and say this does not smell correctly, something is afoot here. Maybe you can take part of that responsibility, as well, and help us help the federal government keep our citizens safe. Well, i can already report to you that some of the most powerful companies in the Silicon Valley are always happy to see me leaving their offices. [laughter] so were there. And i do think there is an Important Role a bridge role for this committee to help you know, create theappropriate the appropriate input platform and, you know, probably through the Fusion Center concept to make sure that if we actually come up with important ideas or if the naacp has statistics that are not necessarily available to a local anti hate crimes agency,i think it would help, you know, lift lift the efforts, make them more focused and hopefully help protect americans from the hate that were now dealing with. Mr. Rausch. I would just add, in terms of the cooperation between federal, local and state agencies, the jttfs are vital. They are working together to address those things that you have concerns with. They are looking at the domestic terrorist. Our my office i have two officers assigned to the jttf that specifically thats what they do. Is they look at our domestic terrorist working with our federal partners. And so they work very closely with them. I also serve on the icps task force thats looking at enhancing Law Enforcements response to hate crimes. And one of the things that i suggested there is we look at tools that we need. Ive talked with several prosecutors and asked them aboutwhat tools they could use to better our opportunity to go after these who are committing these hate crimes. And what they said was, they have a hard time proving ideology. Right . Whats in the mind. Hard time proving that part of the statute. And so they will charge them with the crime that theyve committed, right, which would be maybe an assault or vandalismor vandalism or something of that nature. And then they you know, they said that theyre easier able to get that conviction. And so the hate part is a little challenging. So what ive suggested is for your body to look at similar to what we do with gangs. And that is make it an enhancement. Right . We charge the crime, but make hate an enhancing crime. And so after youve charged them with the a crime, then you come back and after you get that conviction, you come back and you enhance it with the hate crime. And i think that would be much more effective. And you would see an increase in Holding People accountable for their ideologies. Mr. Chair, i yield. The chair recognizes mr. Donovan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chief, i was the elected District Attorney of Staten Island, and indicted the very first hate crime on Staten Island in its history. And it resulted in my first death threat, as well. So that was my reward for it. But im still here. So chief, as you heard, i was asking the fbi director about the whole idea of people disguising themselves with masks and crossing state lines to cause mayhem, whatever, in places. And how would codifying some of those prohibitions be helpful. You were very successful, chief, in the experience that you described to us in your opening remarks. Is there a federal codification of some of these things that you think i think the chairman and chief could and Law Enforcement agencies learn from your good experience. Do you think there are codifications that may be helpful to you and others who are trying to protect our nation . Yeah, absolutely. I think looking at a couple of areas, and i know theyre controversial, but i think its important, when you talk about these protests, and where theyve gotten today. And, you know, obviously, you know, we shouldnt restrict a persons ability to express their opinion. And i think, you know, weve got to be careful with that fine line as we talk about whats what we do to limit a persons ability to express themselves. But i think we also have to look out for the greater good and the safety of our communities. Covering your face for these events, clearly as we have seen, is for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to remain anonymous and to try and get away with it. I was having a conversation as you were on your voting and if you think about it, when you were a child and halloween, masking up makes you anonymous. That is why children dont worry about throwing eggs at the neighbors house or throwing told the paper in an industry throwing toilet paper in the neighbors tree. If theres something codification wise that congress could do, think that would be great. The other area would be his firearms. During these protests, the open carry a firearms, all it is is adding gasoline to the fire. You are talking about emotional situations. Youre going to add in a firearm into that powder cake. I think as you talk about how we regulate and how we assure people have their First Amendment right to express themselves, we need to look about how we can do that where they can do it safely. With proper regulation. You know, we put out a video after charlottesville, made it available to police officers. Well send out 50,000 free copies in january, about mistakes made in charlottesville. I think there were mistakes that were made. But as chief rausch says, they had a tremendous handicap, and that was the virginia open carry law that prohibited towns, counties and cities from having anything that would be contrary to the open carry law. The university of virginia could do it, because its the arm of the state. But the city of charlottesville had its hands tied whenpeople walked into that city with hate in their hearts and open guns. Its a real problem. And its a problem in more than 30 states. Id add, not to contradict anything the chief said, but the history of mask laws in our country is complicated. You know, theres this notion that i should perhaps be able to protest anonymously in order to protect myself from retaliation for expressing an unpopular view. I cant tell you i know what the state of the law is today. It may vary in circumstances. But it is not an uncomplicated point. Thank you. Are there any other rabbi, the situations that were described earlier, the tragedies weve experienced in our country, maybe more recent ones . Have you seen any other things, mistakes that may have happened . If we had something in place, may have prevented some of the harm that was created . I think the key we heard from the first panel is intelligence, information and access of that information to the people, whether especially to local hate crimes units. They have an incredible learning curve. They have to master as theyre thrown in from other arenas in order to be able to deal with the hate, hate groups in their communities. So they could use certainly use some more help. But i just wanted to actually Say Something positive, if i may. And that is and that is that the concept of hate crime is always under assault. The concept is under assault. Saying, well, if someone is raped, theyre raped. If they break a window, you pay. But i think whether youre talking to africanamericans or jews or other minorities, when someone in your community is attacked, when that takes place during a friday Night Service or in a church or school, an entire community is impacted. Hate crimes has not been universally embraced as a society ideal or as a legal concept in other democracies and is always being sniped at here in the states by a variety of individuals. So i think keeping focus on it, keeping the level playing field, so whether its from the left or the right, you have to make sure its not being used, you know, to bludgeon one political point or another. I think its an extremely important and powerful tool that gives a sense of not so much redress, but when a community is hurting, they get the message that the rest of the community is generally with them. And thats part of an important healing process. And one of the ways of keeping social peace. The youre right about the attitude towards hate crime. I was in office for three weeks when we indicted. And we indicted a caucasian man for viciously assaulting another caucasian young man who happened to be in the company of a black woman. Thank you. Chair thanks the gentleman from new york. Chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island, mr. Langevin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank all of your witnesses for being here today. In followup on the discussion just a moment ago, with respect to how weapons have complicated some of these situations, each of you did highlight in your testimony the threat of domestic extremists and terrorism. In recent domestic terrorist attacks, such as the incidents in las vegas, orlando and sutherland springs, firearms have been the weapon of choice. So what steps should congress so what steps should Congress Take to ensure that firearms dont end up in the hands of terrorists . Start with mr. Cohen. I would defer to the chief on this one, if i could. Thats a great question. Im not sure there is an easy answer to that. I think that, you know, clearly, i think, you know, the the challenge we have in background checks, as we have seen the system is not is flawed at best. And so i think thats probably our first step. Is tightening up the background check process to ensure that it is what its supposed to be. When you can identify somebody that that is a member of an organization, if you can identify that. Thats another part of that challenge. Its a difficult situation. I think i think we have to be careful. I know that, you know, theres some legislation moving now about reciprocity of moving guns across borders, in terms of handgun reciprocity, handgun carry. Thats a challenge. You know, not every state has the same level of restriction. In terms of who can carry a firearm. And so thats concerning to those of us in Law Enforcement. And so i would tell you that i would im not the perfect expert on that, i dont think. Ill tell you, its a challenging topic. And i would tell you, weve got to do better than what were doing now. I agree, chief. And youre on the front lines. And i agree with your answers. And i appreciate your perspective and the job youre doing to try to keep us all safe. Let me turn to mr. Cohen. In the the recent election, russia utilized social media to influence and interfere with our democratic process,demonstrating how a properly orchestrated campaign can leverage a small investment into an outsized effect. How have we seen domestic terrorist groups utilize the same tools and methods to spread their message . Look. All of these groups that we talk about are very, very active on social media. Because its easy. Before charlottesville, the message went out to White Supremacists throughout the country to come and gather there. I think it was obvious prior to the event that there were going to be hundreds of White Supremacists at that event. So, you know, as the rabbi said, in any a local thing can quickly become national in scope or global in scope with the click of a button. I dont think theres any easy answer to deal with that. Thank you. I would like to just add to that. Weve been talking to the companies about these issues for well over a decade. And lets be honest. The ads, the digital ads, basically an atm machine. Just for moneymaking. And when we brought the first case we brought to them was when a couple of ads for a hezbollahsponsored game that kids could get hold of i think Washington Post just as a bot. Just showed up on various locations undertakings from a known terrorist group, so the particular company in mind did figure out a way to remove it. I hate to keep coming back to it, but if were talking about ads and the impact of ads, the bad players are looking at each other out there and saying, well, look, this looks like an easy mark, if we invest a certain amount of money, were going to be able to get our message into the mainstream, directly to the kind of audience were looking for. And obviously, hezbollah is not a state player. You get russia, much more sophisticated with its own view. I think a great deal of this responsibility comes right back at the companies. And to a certain extent, it also comes right back to the consumer. Just give you one other example to think about. Because these are not easy issues. One of the companies ran a shortterm project in which they sent emails to teenagers saying that we have reason to believe you may be a target of online bullying. We hope if thats true youretalking to an adult, you have a parent, whatever. But if you need help, email us and well send you a list of resources that you can turn to. Now, at first blush, thats a great idea. But you think about it, you ask yourself one question. How does this company know that this teenager has been bullied . And sort of like the unaddressed issue here is that the these companies, not because they forced anyone, because we gave the information voluntarily, know a lot more about predictive behavior than maybe some of our own federal agencies. They dont like to talk about it. Its not a big brother mentality. Theyre out to make money. But the potential is always there, and when you have a bad player like russia, understanding that potential, and manipulating it, the next time it could be another victim. It may be from another state player or nonstate player. Great insights. Appreciate you all for being here today. Thank you for your testimony. My time has expired. I yield back the balance of my time. The chair thanks the gentleman, the chair thanks the gentleman, mr. Langevin. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from louisiana, mr. Higgins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Rabbi cooper, im going to speak on the connection between domestic extremism and International Terrorism. Specifically to bds movement, the boycott divestmentand Sanction Movement to shut down the peaceful support of israel, are connected my studies show connected with International Terrorism movements. What connections have you seen, sir, can you refer to between bds groups and a global terrorist and anti Israel Movement . Well, you know, theres no question that since bds Movement Boycott and divestment in its current form back in the late 20th century, the this kind of approach was used to great effect to pressure the Apartheid Regime in south africa. And i happened to be present as a delegate in 2001, just before 9 11, at the u. N. Conference against racism, where the mantle was transferred. Not the halo, but the opposite. The new devil was the state of israel. And that approach of demonizing democracy, our ally, has been part and parcel of anti peace forces, of hezbollah, of hamas. Of iran and others. And you do see that connection between domestic the connection and International Terrorism. Right. The connection may not always be operational. But these are not movements that came out of the you know, out of the thin air. Ill give one other example, if i may. There is a piece of potential legislation before the house right now called the palestinian childrens protection act. And that basically, if it went into law, would say that the u. S. Would reduce aid to israel if it caused any violence through any palestinian under the age of 18, even if they were involved in a terrorist act. Now, that did not come out of thin air either. There is now, in you might say in honor of israels upcoming 70th birthday or the 70s 70th birthday or the 70th anniversary of knackba, new themes being brought forward in the international community, and right here in the halls of congress. Again, they dont come from thin air. Its part of an overall Global Campaign to demonize the jewish state. That is apart of the reality that were struggling against. And our own state department has recognized that some of these efforts do cross the line from legitimate criticism of state or of a group of people into hate and antisemitism. Thank you for your very thorough answer. In the interest of time, mr. Cohen, id like to i have further concerns but with constraints of time will not allow me to address them. So im going to jump into money, sir. The Southern Poverty Law Center, as the irs recognizes as splc as a nonprofit taxexempt organization. Is that correct . It is. Since csplc is not subject to taxation, why would there be a need for the splc to have offshore accounts reported up to 69 million in areas like the Cayman Islands as a tax exempt nonprofit organization, splc has no need for lawful tax avoidance. So what would be the legitimate reason that the splc would have millions and millions of dollars deposited in offshore accounts . I appreciate the question. I think theres been some confusion in the press about this. Its common for nonprofit organizations, including universities, big foundations, to have money in offshore accounts. It avoids two things. First, it avoids a lot ofcertain a lot of certain kinds of filings. And it avoids unrelated business income tax. If i could finish very quickly. I appreciate your answer. Will you state before this Congressional Committee definitively that all splc funds are received, held and used for lawful persons under u. S. Law . I will. Thank you. Does the splc receive foreign money . Not that i know of. We may have had some donors in foreign countries. Im sure we have donors in english, for example. But we dont have any other governments. Have they received money from any individual, entity or organization that the state department of Treasury Department has identified as connected to organized crime or terrorism . Not that i know of, of course. Not that you know of. Would you be prepared to present a full report regarding that . No. I dont think were going to present a listing of all of our donors to this committee or another. No, im specifically asking about donors that may have been identified by the United States government as terrorist organizations or im not sure, mr. Higgins, if it you have some information that makes you think that i would be happy to check into it. Thats what im asking, sir. Well, if you have some information that tells you that thats a possibility, id want to look into it because you would not want to do that. Can you provide that your organization with your data on no. No. What i was suggesting was, if you think that we get money from, you know, criminal sources, i have no knowledge of that, and i would appreciate your letting me know who you think it is who is giving us money who we shouldnt. Mr. Chairman, in the interest of time, id like to submit in writing further questioning for the panel. I yield back. The chair thanks the gentleman from louisiana. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from texas, ms. Jackson lee. Thank you very much, mr. Chair. First, allow me to introduce into the record a letter from 53 members of the civil rights the Civil Rights Community coalition of 53 civil rights and civil liberty groups. I ask anonymous consent to submit the statement into the record. Hello . Ok. I need to get extra time. Im sorry. Mr. Time. Im sorry. Without objection. Ok. So i need some extra time on that. Thank you so very much. Let me also express my disappointment that the naacp was not able to testify, and that their invitation was issued less than 24 hours prior to the hearing and the late notice has the new president of the naacp, who is a leader on civil rights issues, mr. Derek johnson. His voice needs to be heard on this committee and i hope we have the opportunity to hear from him as soon as possible. That may go quickly to our very esteemed guest. Rabbi, first of all let me acknowledge this man. He lost 89 members of his family. We have known of the center, both in texas, but in the nation. Then thank you for nonviolent approach you have taken and the peaceful approach you have taken, but the Firm Approach you have taken against antisemitism, which is related and it is a deafening sound in this nation. So, my question to you is basically in an area i have worked, the attack on rigel religious affiliated centers. My question to you is how can congress a stronger on protecting those religious affiliated institutions . There is not one of us he was not been in a synagogue and has been welcomed and in a mosque and has been welcomed. I know how your center works will step how can we protect these facilities . I think we are at an interesting crossroads in america, because you can also add churches. Absolutely. Ship ins of where america are by definition Community Centers and that is one of the key points that bigots, racists, and anti semites understand. I have read with great sympathy the Church Leaders who are trying to decide whether or not they have to put Perimeter Security within their houses of worship. For us it has not been an option. I would imagine that for africanamericans, because the reality of racist hate crimes in this country, its not an option. At the end of the day, as we hear it now as isis is being defeated on the battlefield, the victory will be when we defeat the ideas that fuel and feed the terrorists. The truth is, its not so much on congress. Its on americans to come together and figure out ways to fight the swamp of hatred, how to act together in concert, that we have different political views. Thats not something you can legislate. That is on us. Questions,ose my two and ask the chairman to indulge me. I will post the two questions. First to the chief. With, we were in judiciary a concealed weapons bill and thank you to the major chief for their letter. I think the way i will pose the question on the issue of guns is the proliferation of such guns do make it a little more dangerous. Thei take, for example, individual who attacked the church in charleston, south carolina. I also made mention in judiciary my concern for Law Enforcement offers. Mr. Cohen, thank you for your work. You are trying to explain that it does not fuel antianybody. They come dressed as they do, but they are dealing with the issue of how to protect. What tone is set when the leader of the free world offers or spews out words, such as son of a bs, or uses vieo of alt right or nazi such as the mns. D condems chief, would you comment on the question i asked, and if i could then allow mr. Cohen to ask his question. Guns, responsible gun ownership is what we expect. Ms. Lee absolutely. Unfortunately, what we have seen in many communities throughout the country and within our state and that is the relaxation of gun laws and allowing Guns Everywhere at any time. The hiller decision by the Supreme Court said there can be reasonable regulation and that is what we should have. We have seen an increase sense the capital doctrine was moved from the home to the car in tennessee, we have seen an increase in gun violence. We have seen more guns stolen out of vehicles. Because again, responsible gun ownership also means keeping it safe from other people. And so, we have seen an increase in guns being stolen, an increase in shootings ever since law was changed. We have got to be more methodical in how we regulate our firearms. That is a challenge i would put forward to you. Ms. Lee thank you, chief. Mr. Cohen. Mr. Cohen i would agree with rabbi cooper. It would help a lot if the person was the biggest pulpit would take a lead in condemning hate. Ms. Lee i would join you in that. Many of my colleagues will join you in standing up against hate. Mr. Chairman, i thank you for yielding to me. Chairman the chair now recognizes the gentleman, mr. Garrett. Mr. Garrett i ahte to i hate to be constrained by time. First, i would commend the chief forriminal enhancements certain things. I think we have a criminal Justice System that begs reform. We dont necessarily need we the to enforce those on books, but enhancement makes real sense. First of all, the guns discussion, i would suggest a federal legislative answer to what should be a state level or local level problem. Im sympathetic to the arguments made on the panel that indeed localities and states should be empowered to make these decisions. I can assure you, i would not vote in favor of a federal law. Its draconian in its nature. Having said that, i have no problem with the locality enforcing restrictions. Rabbi cooper, i would correct you and respect where you say lah is not a state actor. They came to be three years after the revolution. They are an actor of the state. Mr. Garrett no disrespect intended. Mr. Cohen, you gave a number of prior tothe website and after the obama administration. Do you remember the numbers at the top of your head . In 2008 it was 140,000 registered users and today we have over 330,000. There are millions of users. Mr. Garrett im not trying to be rude. You have millions of users. That is not a result of the obama administration. No, it is the continuing backlash of countries changing demographics. Mr. Garrett i think that is your opinion. With due respect. What type of organization is the most prominent numerically on your hate watch list . I think it would probably be the daily storm. Mr. Garrett by number. That is what i was trying to answer. Definition come about 22 are black separatist groups. That is correct. This figure hate senatorett wiesenthal was wise. We should learn from the jewish tragedy. So, that is the point that i make, there has been an upti ck. In 2000 the number of black separatist groups was about 1 12 of your list. Was that right . I dont remember the ratio. Mr. Garrett the number of extremist groups listed by hate watch were black separatists and now its 200 of about 900. Again, this is not president obamas fault. I dont think it is. I was not claiming that. Mr. Garrett i guess i am suggesting that there is no doubt that there are real life, living, breathing nazis. Tragically, we saw them within my congressional district. Reprehensibleble, individuals that cannot grasp the basic concept of dr. Kings concept that we should judge individuals based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. We dont want to oversimplify the problem. Correct . I am not suggesting you are. If someone were to say the prevalence of these groups is because of one individual would be oversimplifying the individual. Depending on the individual. Mr. Garrett here is my concern. Your individual has attacked people. Ifever, would you be shocked i told you that from the public records as it relates to the leadership of your organization, political giving is almost exclusively and to the tune of 100 in your direction. Would that the price you . I dont think that is accurate. Mr. Garrett if i were to tell you that it were, would that surprise you . The republican donors mr. Garrett the gifts from to in your nation political donations and it would not surprise you to know they were in one direction. It would not. Mr. Garrett would it surprise you if i were to tell you that based on public records, the political giving of the leadership of those organizations was almost exclusively in one direction . No. Mr. Garrett would you contest the assertion you have not given up your days as a trial lawyer, have you . Mr. Garrett again, it is interesting. I respect what you do, but i am concerned with how you are doing it i think it is fair to say the deadliest collective force in Human History probably just after National Socialism would be communism, which in arguably is a dogma of the left. I am not ascribing values to anyone. Im suggesting that it troubles those to see an entity that has been responsible for determining what is and is not hate that skews almost exclusively, as do their collaborators, in a particular direction. I guess i admonish you to listen to folks like mr. Perry who say i do remember the name of the organization to become familiar with them. Ive not sure who you are talking about, mr. Perry. Im sorry. Chairmr. Garrett its okay. Let me finish. Its not with malice. To deserve credit at splc point out that jason kessler, who was the organization of the unite the right rally who i would take exception to the na me. Everyone has the right to be left alone as long as they are not hurting anyone else. You are the first people to point out that his affiliations were aligned with the right movement. Violence in any form is violence and victims in any form are i victims. We always have. Mr. Garrett i would encourage you to continue. Based on life experience, the organization skews in a particular direction and a good be a bias, which then gives rise to a lack of credibility to what you do, which is in port in work. I understand why that is important to you. Mr. Garrett do you understand why that could be a concern . The liberal tradition is an inclusive one. Hate is the opposite of that liberal tradition of inclusivity. Its not surprising to me that people at the Southern Poverty Law Center, people at other inclusive organizations tend to give money to other liberal organizations. It seems obvious to me mr. Garrett we could discuss the origins of classical liberalism and modern liberalism all day long, but my philosophy is treat everyone as you want to be treated and do no harm. The concept of liberty should be adhered to so long as you are not hurting anyone else, who cares who you sleep with or who you worship, etc. Look at thee as you groups who are chosen, the liberty counsel, when flanagan walks in with chick filet sandwiches to rub in the faces of his victims, that is not your fault. I would hope the important work you do not be coopted by the id ogical drive. I would hope that if you knew as what we did, you would keep them at arms length. Mr. Garrett i am way over time. I thank all three of the panelists. I invite you guys to come to my office at any time. Theirman the chair thanks gentleman. The members of the committee may have additional questions for the witnesses and i ask you to respond to those in writing. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member. Thank you so much. I would like to include a statement from the council on American Islamic relations. Chairman without objection. Pursuant to Committee Meeting seven delta, the committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] tonight texas senator ted cruz says we have got more work to do after the senate adjourned without passing its version of a tax reform bill. Tomorrows vote is scheduled for 11 00 a. M. Republicans are searching for a compromise that would add back some of the revenue that would be lost after taxes are cut. Not a serious blow to the gop tax ever, but this could endanger the goal of enacting an overhaul before christmas. Watch debates and votes on the issue when senators return at 10 00 a. M. Live on cspan 2. Cspans on q a, u. S. Federal entitlement programs. Entitlement programs stem from a basic human desire to help someone who is in need of assistance. It is common. All of us have it in us. For politicians, it is a little bit easier, of course, using somebody elses money. But they have that same basic desire that you and i do. They also have this desire to be reelected. Once that entitlement is put in place, then the game has changed. The Interest Groups form around protecting that entitlement, pressing for more assistance. Money starts flowing into politicians who protect those benefits and the game changes. John cogan on u. S. Federal entitlement programs, sunday night at 8 00 eastern, sunday night on cspans q a. Brock long asked congress to approve the white house request for 44 billion in additional disaster aid. He was on capitol hill asking questions from the members of the House Appropriations committee. We will call this hearing to order