Cspan 2. Susan kay coles james, after many years, first as a scholar scholar and later as the trustee. You took over the reins in december of 2017, almost two years. What were your primary goals when you took the position . Mrs. James i have been given very specific instructions by our board. They were very interested in settling the organization down. Making sure that it had worldclass management. As well as taking the very important messages that we have from the Heritage Foundation to new audiences. Focused onhad been washington, d. C. And speaking to legislators and people within the administration. But we really felt like our conservative message needed a voice with some demographics that we had not been particularly active in. We needed to talk to women. We needed to talk to minorities. We needed to talk to the youth of this country. Our conservative values are so important that we cannot ignore those constituencies with our message we have to win them. Susan on your website, you talk about how 70 of your funding which is about how much . How much revenue . 90 million . Mrs. James you could say in that range and you would be safe. Almost70 comes from half a million, 500,000 individuals. It sounds like youre getting out of washington. Mrs. James we are, but we need to do more. I think one of the strengths of the Heritage Foundation is that we are not associated with a university. So we dont have that sort of pressure from the established university to push us in one direction or another. We receive our donations from a wide swath of the American People, so we can largely be independent. We are not looking to any one major donor to please. We want to be known for our scholarship, for our research, for our data, our analysis. So for that reason, i think it puts us in a very unique position to have that many people who are supporting the Heritage Foundation. Susan how large is the staff and how many scholars . Mrs. James north of 100 scholars. And these are some of the most incredible scholars, the research. Sometimes, when i sit in meetings at the Heritage Foundation and i listen to and its largely a very young staff as well, to see these young people, i tell them they are scary smart as they put the time, the energy, and the effort in. The staff is somewhere around 300. We go up and down, depending. So it is a Large Organization with a Large Mission with a lot to do in these days. Susan throughout our history, it has been one of a number of think tanks along the covergical spectrum that regularly, which is why we want to introduce you and your role. You talk about, and the materials talk about, a set of principles called true north. What are they . Mrs. James there is a lot of discussion within the conservative movement about what is a real conservative. The other thing i noticed, having been in the position for a little bit, is that i would get telephone calls not from people on the other side of the ideological spectrum, but very often for my own friends, people that i admire, respect, and have known for years. They say, i know this may go against what your scholars are saying or what your research is telling you or the data is saying, but this is such a good program, could you let it slide . Would you not oppose this, because it could do so much good. And i finally came to the conclusion that i needed a document that said, here are the principles upon which we stand. If you are going to call me and ask me to violate one of those principles, then i can save you a phone call, because its just not going to happen. So the true north principles are those things that we laid out that we think sort of shape what a true conservative is. And it would not be anything surprising. It would not be anything very complex. Of course we believe in limited government. Of course we believe in a Strong National defense. Of course we believe in the value, dignity, and sanctity of life. Of course we believe that we need to bring our debt under control. Of course we believe in Strong Families and religious liberty. So if anything you ask us to do that would violate those principles, the answer pretty much is going to be no. Susan on the budget, i am wondering, because it has been a strong position of heritage throughout its existence, but we learned last week from the Congressional Budget Office that the federal deficit next year is going to be close to 1 trillion. The public seems not to be expressing concern in the polls. Mrs. James well, we are. We are at the Heritage Foundation. We are very concerned about the debt we are leaving for generations ahead to pay. One of the nice things, and i want to make this distinction very early in our conversation, because a lot of people just never get it. We are not in arms of the Republican Party or the Trump Administration. This is a conservative Public Policy think tank. When we see policy that we do not agree with, we call it. We call it out. And we do. Yes, we did. In working with the president we are so grateful for so much of what he does, but when we disagree, we dont hesitate to say so. Susan what do you think is happening in this town that the public debt continues to rise at the rate it is . Mrs. James because i think our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, kick the can. Kick it down the road, leave it for future generations to deal with, and sometimes just dont have the political will to do the right thing. It takes us a real amount of courage in order to do that. The least we could do at the Heritage Foundation is hold their feet to the fire. Susan when speaking about the policies you agree with and disagree with, just asking in enteral, almost three years into it now, you served in the trump transition, i am wondering how you think, as someone who served ther two other president s, president is doing in leadership skills and policies . Mrs. James interesting question, and it is a very complex one. Because you do not have to like the president s personality. You dont have to like his choice of words. You dont even have to like him. But i can tell you that, from a policy perspective, in terms of pure conservative policy, he has actually done quite well. The Heritage Foundation puts out a mandate for leadership, where we list what conservative policy would look like under any administration. And, in his first few years in office, he has already completed 64 of our mandate for leadership. So take issue with him wherever you like in terms of personality, style, any of that, but if you want to look at some good, solid conservative policy that has been implemented, we are pleased when we look around this administration. Everybody is focused on the top of the pyramid, focused on the president. But when you look around this administration, at some of the various levels of government, there are true patriots who have gone in to actually serve in government. And the sustaining work of government is going on. And we are very pleased about what we see coming out of this administration, for the most part. Susan what about the Heritage Action . The political arm of the Heritage Foundation . What is your relationship . What can the two organizations do together . Mrs. James well, we are two separate organizations. We like to think of them in terms of someone who really is out there putting teeth behind the policy that we promote at Heritage Foundation. Just legally they are allowed to do some things in terms of lobbying and with a particular piece of legislation that we dont do. At the Heritage Foundation, we do the research, the data analysis, the collection of data. And at the Heritage Action for america, they are the ones who take that information, and, when it is implemented into a particular piece of legislation, they can actually go lobby for that legislation. We dont. Susan is it unusual for the major think tanks in washington to have a Political Organization such as this . Mrs. James not as unusual as you think. Or c4sthem have c3s very complex systems for how they work in this town. The Heritage Foundation is upfront about it. Susan since you have taken over the helm, you have been in the public eye over a couple of different issues. I wanted to get your perspective over some of them. First of all is the debate over baltimore. We are talking about the president and his tweets. You spoke out during the controversy that arose after his criticism for baltimore and its issues and its handling of race related and crime related issues . Why did you get involved . Mrs. James because i care. Because i care deeply about urban areas. I came from one. The reason that i am a conservative today is because i genuinely, honestly believe that the policies that we promote are the policies that will save those lives, that will change those lives in those urban areas, that will promote Human Flourishing. I am not a conservative for ideological reasons. By the way, my definition of a conservative is someone who has the audacity to believe what their grandmother taught them. Its not deep. Its not complicated. Its not even weird. So i think about the things that had a profound influence on my life. And i look at the conditions in those cities today, whether its baltimore, detroit, or my own hometown, richmond, virginia. And my heart breaks. Literally breaks. So i believe that we, as conservatives, have a compelling message for those areas, but we just have not done a good job in telling it. And i think that the far, far left has a compelling interest in painting us as uncaring, hateful, racist people who generally could give a hoot about urban areas. I, on the other hand, absolutely believe that a fully restore to those areas some of the basic principles that we know work, we could change peoples lives. And so that is why i spoke to it. Susan in one of the written pieces that you published around the time of the baltimore controversy, you talked about a family tragedy, your nieces death. Could you tell that story . Mrs. James absolutely. I hope i can get through it without tears. I had a niece that i loved dearly. Dearly. Beyond all measure. And i saw her become a victim of so much of what goes on in our urban areas today. I saw this young, bright kid, who was a superstar in my eyes, succumb to the urban culture and environment. Become addicted to opioids and eventually die of an overdose. And i literally was sitting in her funeral, and i was looking around, and i was seeing my family members weeping. I heard the preacher and other speakers talking about, you know enough is enough and we have got to change things in our communities. It was at that moment i said, i really wanted to stand up and say, are you mad enough yet . Are you angry enough yet to try Something Different . Because the definition of insanity is to keep trying the same things over and over again and not getting a different result. So, are you ready to listen . Are you ready to sit down at a table with anyone who brings solutions . Who brings answers . Who wants a change . Would you be willing to say, lets look at the institutions within our community that got us this far . So, should we look at the church and see the role that the church has always played in the black community and say, we want to do things that strengthen the church and religious liberty and not do things that weaken them . Are we willing to recognize the role of quality education and get mad enough that we say no more failure factories in the schools. We want schools that really do teach kids and prepare them for life. Are we mad enough yet to say living in these conditions are not acceptable, so if nobody is going to clean it up, were going to get up there and we will clean it up ourselves. In other words, what can we do today in case the calvary never shows up . In case the Government Programs never show up . That is not to diminish, in any way, the need, the desperate need, for some of those programs. But i was also very intrigued by how we, as a people, survived in a postcivil war era during reconstruction. And i figured out that if we survived slavery and the civil war, and we were left basically, in the south especially, not just with note Government Programs, but an antagonistic government. How did we survive that and produce the harlem renaissance . Black wall street, historically black colleges and universities . Because we did that with no help. And i am so intrigued by the strength and the dignity of my people and my community. That i want to let them know that i dont care if they never show up with a government program, we got this. We can do this. And i think that kind of hope and inspiration has been lost. And people are in despair and discouraged. So i got involved because i wanted to sort of reignite that sense of hope and optimism. And yes, we need those desperately needed Government Programs. But if they dont show up, i am not going to sit here and wait. There are things we can do today. Susan how old was your niece when she passed . Mrs. James she was in her early 20s. Susan and is there a series of programs you think would have made a difference . Mrs. James in her life . Susan it sounds like she had a good family. Mrs. James oh, yeah. She absolutely had a good Family Network and support. But sometimes those streets can be so overwhelming it does not matter what kind of family you come from. They can overtake you. We need to run the drug dealers out of our communities. We need to say no more. No more. You cant peddle this stuff. I happen to believe, as someone who is staunchly prolife but being prolife is something far more than just being against an abortion procedure. For me, being prolife means recognizing the value, the dignity, and the sanctity of human life. And that is to be protected at all stages of human life. So you cannot be a drug dealer pushing poison on other human beings and recognize the value, dignity, and sanctity of human life. I think we need to return to the culture where we believe in the dignity of life. I think it will influence everything from not just abortion, it will influence how we treat our neighbors. It will influence the dignity that you give to the tollbooth collector as you are going through. And it will have a culture that says we do not push poison on each other. Susan another time you have recently been in the news is appointment to google. Heres a clip from fox news were you talked about this experience. Lets watch. [video clip] mrs. James they blame those of us on the right. I said, you know . I just want the people in Silicon Valley and people on the far, far left to live up to their own bumper stickers. They are the ones that said mean people suck. I never seen anything meaner, nastier, more vile than the hatred that came towards me at that time. And i was disappointed in the google leadership who really thought they were doing the right thing to disband. I really think they should have stood up to the mob rule. And it was not a good thing to capitulate to that sort of thinking. Susan the clip from fox news nationally. So what happened at google . Mrs. James so sad. So terribly sad. First of all, i think it was a complete misunderstanding by the employees. They were not asking me to come in and give advice on what direction they ought to go or to judge a particular product. I thought what they were doing was a very Good Business decision. They put together a Diverse Group of individuals who had different perspectives to say we want to know we are considering these options, and we want to stress test them with people. What would people who think like you think about this . So i thought that was a very interesting question to ask, and something that any Good Business would want to know. But what i really saw was a missed opportunity. I am so distressed at the tone of the debate, not just over google i mean just this weekend, i had one of my alltime Favorite Movie stars i love bette midler. On theid a short piece death of david coke koch, who was a flap who was a philanthropist. And think, that in our nation today, you could indepth say, life well lived, you did this for the arts and you did this, and that would be ok. And i had to wake up to bette midler saying f kay james. What are we doing . If we, as a nation, cannot demonstrate to the world what it looks like to live in a pluralistic society, with people who have a broad range of views and can have those discussions and do it in a civil way, then i dont think we can say anything. We have got to figure out how to do civil discourse in this country. That the employees at google need to learn that. Dear god, they called me a white racist. They just assumed they did not even do their research to figure out who kay james is. And that is sad. I want to do my part. I do not want to engage in that part of debate or that kind of rhetoric. I do believe you can have deeply fundamentally different beliefs, and respect individuals who have a different perspective and engage in civil discourse. Susan third issue is over the leadership of heritage. You made reference to the fact that the board asked you to stabilize it. It was back in the news after two years. Recently with a book american carnage, where he wrote about the change of leadership. What do you want the people out in the country who follow heritage and think tanks to know about that leadership change . And what was behind it . Mrs. James that they should totally ignore everything in that book. I just refuse to participate in that. Jim and i talked after that, and we agreed that we, together, were not going to give it any credence. I have said it before, i will say it again jim was, is, and will always be a personal hero of mine. I have great admiration and respect for him. And i refuse to let someone try to tarnish that relationship in order to sell some books. Susan what about heritages management needed stabilization . Mrs. James well, you know, i come from a business background. And i love heritage. And so one of the things that i promised to the board as i took over as i would bring some things that would make any one of our donors feel secure about a donation that they made to heritage that we are here for the long haul. So i did the things that any good manager would do coming in. We went through a Strategic Planning process so that i can donors, we know where we are going and know what we are doing three years out. We are doing Succession Planning so that we know, for every key position in the Heritage Foundation, whether it is the president or one of our top policy experts, we know that we have a Succession Plan in place. I am a conservative by nature, and so i do conservative budgeting. So we revamped the budgeting process, and everything was on the chopping block. You have to make sure that the things that we are doing are the things contributing to our longterm strategic plan. So bringing some of those heritage toions to make sure that it is a strong stabilization. Susan you brought to heritage policy,n 35 years and government, and higher education. It all began and norfolk, virginia. We dipped into our Video Library to find some clips from you in the past. Its 31 years, actually. This one is from 1990. Its when you were serving on a commission on children and families. Lets watch. [video clip] mrs. James i never thought what we were talking about wishing back the neighborhoods and the importance of the way it was. I also felt a profound sense of unease if we talked about that, because lord knows i dont want my neighborhood back. The neighborhood that i came out of was a Public Housing project from a dysfunctional family. And there is nothing there to be glorified or ro go back to. Or to go back to. Susan you told that story in a biography called never forget. The subtitle is the riveting story of one womans journey from Public Housing to the corridors of power. Youralk often about biology when you are speaking to audiences. Tell me a capsule version of what you went through and how it shaped who you are today . Mrs. James welfare mother, alcoholic father, born on the kitchen table. Portsmouth, virginia. I think my story is not unique at all. It is a quintessentially american story that defies race, because i have friends who are black, who are white, who are latino who all share the story. This story which i think makes us all of this country so much. Coming out of that, what happened . How did you make the journey from that to where we are today . The first of all was a family that pulled together. My mom had six kids. Her sisters divided the kids up and helped her. That was the First Department of health and human resources, was the family. Susan where was your father . Mrs. James largely absent. My father suffered under the debilitating disease of alcoholism. Because of that, he had so many hopes and dreams that were dashed. I, as an adult, understand a little better what may have caused him to desert his family the way he did. Not to excuse it but to understand it a little better. So the family pulled together. I went to live with an aunt and uncle who had a very middleclass background. Did not need the United Negro Fund to tell me the mind was a terrible thing to waste. That was a mantra in our family. So education was key. It was critical. It was the ticket out. I was part of the class of students that help to integrate the schools in the south, so went through all of that. Having come out of that, i wanted the peace and the comfort and the security of going to a historically black college and university. And had the privilege of being educated at Hampton University in hampton, virginia. And went there and felt that security. Felt that warmth. Felt that love. I am a big advocate of hbcus for that reason. I understand the role they can play. Every kid does not need it. I did. Coming out of that experience, my uncle, who was raising me, said, you can get married the day after college, but not one day before. You will get educated. You will get the tools you need for life. Susan can i interrupt that . Did any of your brothers go to college . Mrs. James no. No. I was the only one who had that opportunity. Susan and it was because of your aunt and uncle . Mrs. James yes. Yes. One or two of them may have had some college courses, but none ever were actually able to complete them. And boy did they succeed in spite of that. Oh my gosh, my mother is my hero. And i wish that every urban mother could know the tenacity, could know what putting your kids education as a key to their survival, who would know what it means to your kid to say, you know, we may be poor, but we will never be dirty. Who said good manners will get you places and open doors for you that others will never have opened. So my mother poured all of that stuff into me. The other person, the other mother that i admire like that is ben carsons mother, when you hear his story. I think my story and ben carson story are largely irrelevant. I want somebody to tell their story. Because i think it would be an encouragement to the mothers that live in those neighborhood. Susan when along that path did you decide you were a conservative . And were you a conservative at hampton . Mrs. James i have always been a conservative, i just did not know i was. And i did not know i was a conservative until a reporter told me i was. Absolutely true story. I was in pennsylvania, had just done a speech, and the reporter said something to me about being what would make you say that . My view of a conservative was in old, angry white male who may have had racist tendencies and i wanted nothing to do it that. With that. Thats not what i was, and thats not who conservatives are either, by the way, but that is the picture that has been painted. When he began to describe the things conservatives believe, it was like, i guess i am. There was no conversion where i was not a conservative and then i was. I absolutely believe that a great many people in this country share conservative values, but they dont want to carry that mantra because of how it has been defined today. No one wants to be defined as racist. No one wants to be defined as angry and bitter. No one wants to be defined as lacking in compassion. I think we have to show a different face of who a conservative is, and let people know that you share values. You are a conservative. Conservative values work. I tell Bernie Sanders voters to say, i defy you to say you care more about poor people than i do, because you dont. I defy you to say you care more about access to health care than i do, because you dont. I defy you to say you care more about educating poor people than i do, because you dont. But we have very Different Solutions about how to get there. So could we just agree to be solutionists . Solve who want to problems. And if your ideas dont work, do we have to do them over and over again . Can we do things at work and contribute to Human Flourishing . Susan were you involved in politics as a College Student . Mrs. James i am so nonpolitical. No, i wasnt. Susan what was your pathway from hampton into the National Policy arena . Mrs. James it was so interesting. A friend came to our home once and said, you know, we should not just be wagging our fingers in the faces of women in saying and our church teaches you should not have an abortion. We should do practical things like if you choose life, we will walk beside you. We will help you. My husband and i were involved in starting a Prolife Center to help women. I was asked to come on television to debate the abortion issue very early on. It was here in washington on a new Cable Network at the time called bet. I can tell you, thats the last thing i wanted to do. The most controversial thing i been in debating, chicken or hamburger for dinner before. Stepping into that was frightening to me. But i did. I did because i believe that, as a nation, dear god, can we solve the pathologies that exist in our country without throwing out our preborn children in trash cans . To me, it was the greatest civil rights issue of our time. Because a member of the human family was being discriminated against because of size, age and place of residence. I consider myself a feminist, and i bear that title gladly. I was so annoyed that our current model of feminist movement defined me out of the movement by saying, if i believed in protecting human life that i cannot be a feminist. But for me and my perspective, i dont have to reach inside my body and take the lives of my preborn children to be equal to any man. I really believe that the culture has to adjust to me and who i am as a woman. I am relieved that is real feminism. Susan our next clip comes from that step in your career. As the earliest clip we have of you and our Video Library. 1988, 39 years old at the time. Speaking at the right to life convention. [video clip] mrs. James what would our world look like if the Prolife Movement packed up and decided to go home . What would it look like . What will the world look like . What will our country look like if we dont win . I think the implications of that are scary. What are the implications for handicapped people in our country if we dont win . What are the implications for the elderly and our country if we dont win . What are the implications of the millions of unborn children in this country if we dont win . [end of video clip] susan a couple of questions out of that. You referenced this earlier in your own philosophy. You are there talking about a broad definition of life. I am wondering how well you think as a whole the right to Life Movement has done in adapting that broader definition so that it crosses policy issues across society . Mrs. James we tried. We tried. I cannot tell you the number of times i wanted to have a discussion about the broader issues of what it means to have a high regard for the value and the dignity and the sanctity of human life, and how it would affect human policy. But the interviewer would take me right back to talking about abortion. I cannot tell you how many times we have tried to explain to the American People that in 1973, something happened to the soul of this nation that has far greater implications than just dealing with a medical procedure called abortion. It is hard. Its hard. I think because the feminist movement in our country has focused so much on the abortion issue, that they recognize they have to kill the whole thing and in order to win that battle. They cannot allow us to prevail on the broader set of issues. Any time i have the opportunity, i want to talk about that, and talk about the implications of what that means. But we rarely get the opportunity to do that. Susan for instance, whats one issue you think are to be discussed more . Mrs. James just think about what Governor Northam said in virginia about a child being able to be born, and they set the child aside while the mother and the doctor determine whether or not to kill it. That is barbaric. That is awful. Is that who we have become as a people . I want to say to that child, if you have a disability, you are welcome in my world. I dont care. We will wrap the social services around you. There are people standing ready to adopt you. I think it has a profound influence, but we cannot get to that discussion. I dont think old people have a duty to die. I think that we should, as other cultures have today, and as we have in the past, revere the aging and our country. The implications of being prolife are far greater than just that procedure. Susan on abortion, particularly 31 years later, its still the law of the land. At for conservatives you argue in that clip for conservatives playing the long game. Do you feel we are at an Inflection Point with the fight for Supreme Court . Will there be a revisiting . Mrs. James i dont focus on the Supreme Court as much as i focus on where we are with the cultural change. More and more young people are recognizing that they do not adopt a proabortion philosophy or stance. I think what is more rewarding to me is to win the cultural debate, rather than just winning the Supreme Court debate. The reality is, that can shift back and forth depending on who the judges are and what that means. I want to see our country say that we welcome, we were their life, we will not solve the problems in our country by killing our children. I want to see us say to those individuals in our country who may be handicapped or disabled, or old, or that you are welcome in our world. Susan you introduced three, pretty small at the time, children. Yours. What happened to them . You had two parents involved in the policy community. Did any of them go into that direction . Mrs. James they did. One is chief Deputy Attorney general of the state of virginia and is a practicing attorney now, and is just remarkable. I have a daughter who was involved in government and politics for a while, but is now a fulltime stayathome mom raising three children of her own. Then i have a younger son who is one of the most complex individuals you will ever see in your life. He had some point, is as conservative as i. At another point, is leading the movement. He is all over the place but is smart as a whip and keeps me in check. Susan next is bush 41 administration where you worked under secretary sullivan. Lets show you a clip and we will talk about it. [video clip] mrs. James someone was debating this issue with me the other day and they said, well, what about the fact that there may be low unemployment and a portion of the state . The circumstances are that there are no jobs there. I said, what are you telling me . I think the state should support them. I said, can we just end this conversation here by saying i am a capitalist and you are a socialist . [laughter] what you are saying to me is mind you, we are only talking about ablebodied people. If youre ablebodied and in sound mind, and cant find a job in three years, you still want me to take care of you. I dont think so. [end of video clip] mrs. James can we just talk about the glasses and the hair . Susan thats the downside of all the years. I can promise from my later experience. This is after you worked for the governor of virginia as secretary of health and human resources. I was interested in that clip for a couple of reasons. Right now we are hearing the word socialist being said in our debates. What is that distinction, socialist and capitalist, mean to you . Mrs. James as i think about the people i care about and the lives i want to change and the improvements i want to see and Human Flourishing, the Economic System where that happens the anywhere on the planet is under a capitalist system. Socialism has never, ever worked anywhere. When you look at how people are suffering under the socialist regimes, i did not realize how prophetic i was being. I think it is important for us to recognize what works, what doesnt, and be bold enough to say, we are going to go with where the research, data and analysis takes us. Susan you talked about three years for Government Programs and that people should be able to find a way off. This happened in 1994 before nafta went into place, which caused displacement before the 2008 financial crisis. He for the digital revolution really eliminated a number of jobs. Do you still feel the same way of three years or have things i changed . Mrs. James things have changed dramatically for the good. Get the economy we are operating in today, if you cannot find a job if you look at the economy we are operating in today, if you cannot find a job like unemployment, any country category, today is better than it has ever been. Let that sink in for a minute. Even if all of what you listed, we are better off today than we ever have been economically as a country. Yes, maybe it should not be three years, maybe it should be less. At the end of the day, we as americans are some of the most compassionate people, caring people, we want to help. If we have a neighbor in trouble, we show up. Thats who we are. But if you are ablebodied, can work, and just simply say, either, thats ok, i will just take my government check, or i dont want to work, it makes no sense to me. There are too many people out there that genuinely meet our need our programs. Thats the thing that people misinterpret about those of us that are conservative. One of the reasons i want to reform entitlement programs is because if we dont restructure them, they will fall under their own weight, and the very people who need them, those programs wont be there for them. I think we must look at reforming our entitlement programs and how we administer them. So that they will be there for the people who desperately need them. Susan 1999 you left government and went to Regent University to serve as dean. The next clip is from that time of your life, but not in that capacity. You are serving on a Government Commission on gambling. Lets watch. [video clip] mrs. James and i think that this commission, and indeed, the commissioners themselves have advanced before the American People. Something far more important than just a document. Just a report as important as it is. I dont think that it should be overlooked that their contribution to the american Public Policy process has been to demonstrate to those who sometimes in this town seem incapable of doing it, what it looks like when people of character and goodwill and integrity come together, determined to stay at the table and do some good for the american public. [end of video clip] susan back in 1999 you are talking about the ability to work together. It seems like it has only gotten worse since then. What is happening that you think people cannot work out solutions . Mrs. James that was one of the Biggest Challenges of my life. On that commission i had ceos of casinos, and people who were very much against gambling in any form. From the very beginning, the press surrounding that was horrific. I would go home and get in the fetal position and suck my finger every night. It was just that bad, but determined to stick to it. Someone said, how are you going to solve this problem . I said, i am just going to be me. I going to continue to push people to have conversation. Do you know what the icebreaker was on that commission . I think if you ask any of the commissioners what really did it, i invited them all over to my house for dinner and told them they cannot talk about anything but their personal lives and family. It is harder to be that rude and that nasty and that mean when you know that someone you are sitting across the table from is struggling with a wife who is sick. Or a kid who is in severe trouble. So, i think applying some of those things and i was so, so pleased that by the time we got to the end of that commission, we had come together and reached consensus. But it required that i go spend the day walking with the president of the largest union, to truly understand why he was trying to say to me as he represented the people that came to that table. So, again, i think the thing that is missing today is that element. People are not willing to get to know me, who i am and why a why i believe what i believe. I am doing everything i can to try to break into and form the relationships with my counterparts on the left to say, can we just talk about this . I think the problem that we have is that the margin is so narrow in terms of who has the power, the country is so close, that its a fight to the death for every vote. It is a fight to the death for every policy. Nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer could know that donald trump is exactly right on something, but they will never say it, they will never give it to him, and they will never contribute to anything that might help during an election. The same is true from the republican side of the aisle. Which is one of the reasons i am glad i can step out of all of that and say, i will tell you all what good policy is and what you ought to be doing. But i think that is why. I think because the power shift is so close that it is a fight to the death. Susan i have limited amount of time, but i did want to ask because you should tell us what Region University is and what christian universities roles are in the country . Mrs. James christian universities can play a very big role in the country. If you are coming out of a Church Background one of the things i was determined to bring to regent was a large dose of realism to help kids who probably came from christian homes, from christian private schools, then going to a Christian College to say, let me help you navigate what it is going to be like when you get out into the big rw. I think there is a role there for making that transition. And understanding how to do it with character and integrity, and with success. Susan you have served on a number of these commissions over your career. Do they matter . Do they actually get things done . Mrs. James some do. I am serving on one right now, which i am so excited about it. That is the Centennial Commission of celebrating womens suffrage. Women getting the right to vote in this country. I love the commission because it is devoid of politics. One of the highest honors of my life has been to work beside who was then my vice chair, senator mikulski, and we just enjoyed the banter and celebrating together, womens right to vote. Susan my final clip is from your next stop in government, which is serving in the Bush Administration as ahead of as a head of office of personnel management. Are you are testifying on capitol hill about the creation of the Homeland Security department. [video clip] mrs. James what i would say to the federal worker who may be listening today, and i suspect many from your departments are, is that there is an opportunity to join a worldclass workforce. To be in an environment where they will be rewarded for the work that they do. Where they have a Clear Mission set before them. Where they have an opportunity opportunity to defend the homeland and do significant work. I think it is a tremendous opportunity, and knowing the federal workers as i do, i am confident they will step up to the plate and do that, and do it with vigor and enthusiasm. Susan you are a stash [video clip] susan you are a small government person. Mrs. James i was hoping as we formed the department of Homeland Security that there would be some economies of scale where we could shrink government. One of the things we learn about government is that government typically does not go in that direction. Susan as you look back at bringing all of those departments together when there was so much stress and government at that time, is there anything you would have done differently . When looking back, did it turn out the way you anticipated . Mrs. James it did not. When we were selling the department of Homeland Security as a great idea, one which i still believe was the right thing to do, i think that i would have put more measures, or tried to get more measures into the legislation that would force the economies of scale, so that we could see governments shrink instead of grow. Susan one of the ways the Trump Administration is looking at cutting government is eliminating the office of personnel management. Is that a good idea . Mrs. James why did you save the hardest question for last . They are not actually talking about eliminating the department. What they are talking about doing is dividing the department and sending certain pieces of it to certain places. As long as there are certain things that stay in place, i have no objection. I really do believe that we have merit system principles, which are so important and makes our workforce different from anywhere else on the planet. I really do believe that veterans preference is so important. These men and women fought for us overseas. They should be first in line for federal jobs when they get home. I could go through the list of things that i think are very important that opm does that should never go away. And never forget why it was created in the first place. Because of corruption. Because of nepotism. Because of individuals within government using them for political patronage. So it plays a very real role. As long as those function stay in place somewhere, its ok. Susan we have three minutes left. I want to come full circle to what you said one of your mandates was, which is to increase the diversity of people participating in conservative thoughts in this country. David wasserman does house analysis. Last week he tweeted this statistic that 90 of a house gop are white males. 37 of House Democrats are white males. If we think of them as representatives of the electorate, what is happening with attracting people of color to the conservative philosophy and politics . Mrs. James it is easier to attract them to the conservative philosophy than it is to republican politics, by the way. One of the reasons it is difficult is that the other side stays up at day and night painting republicans as racists. Youve got the New York Times saying we will shift our focus away from russia to race. There are huge organizations out there that are pushing the racists narrative on republicans. So, you cannot blame republicans who are out actively trying to bring people in and say, please come join us. What they hear is, but you are racist, why would i do that . In a large measure, i think the left has been very successful in painting conservatives and republicans, because the two are not the same, as racists. That is something we have to counteract. Susan how can you do it successfully . If you dont have the New York Times, there is a large number of social media, conservative talk shows. Mrs. James we are all over them and trying to get the message out. Growing. I can remember the time when we would hold a meeting of black conservatives in this country and i would know all six of them. Today, during the trump inaugural, there was an event and i stood back and got tearyeyed because there were over 500 black republicans in that room to celebrate the inauguration. I went wow, i guess my work is done here. It is growing and cannot be stopped. Susan what is the thing you have done a heritage that you think will most advance this cause . Mrs. James being there. Being there as a black female conservative. Just being who i am on a daytoday basis i think speaks volumes. By the way, it is not within the dna of any board member of the Heritage Foundation to have selected me for that reason. I come with all kinds of management chops, and Public Policy skills and abilities. The fact that i am black and female was icing on the cake. Susan thank you for spending an hour with cspan, we appreciate your time. Mrs. James thank you. All q a programs are available on our website, or as a podcast at cspan. Org. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] next sunday on q a, the smithsonian institutions manager discusses the countrys he is the curator at the National Museum of american history. Next sunday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern this is on cspan. Heres a look at our live coverage today. On cspan at 11 30 eastern, president trumps remarks at a religious freedom event. Later at seven 00, a discussion on First Amendment rights when it comes to social media later at 7 00, i discussion on First Amendment rights when it comes to social media. A. M. , cspan2, the measles outbreak. And the senate gravels in at 3 00 p. M