Transcripts For CSPAN Senate Hearing On Coronavirus Impact On The Aviation Industry 20240713

Industries association. Sen. Wicker all right, we will begin, and we appreciate people working with us on this partially remote, and partially in person hearing on a very important topic. The covid 19 pandemic has affected the normal operation of every Public Institution in our country. Including, as you can see, the legislative branch. I thank my colleagues and witnesses per for participating in todays hearing, which is the first of many covid19related oversight hearings that this committee will conduct. We will accomplish the business in accordance with the guidelines established by the rules committee, and in consultation with the office of the attending physician. And i want to thank my colleague and Ranking Member, senator cantwell, for her cooperation in this regard, and for all of our staff. The committee today convenes to discuss the state of the Aviation Industry. Witnesses, which are limited in number by the guidance we received from the senate, include nic calio, president and chief executive officer of airlines for america, todd hauptli, president and chief executive officer of the American Association of airport effectives, eric fanning, president of the chief executive officer of the Aerospace Industries association, and remotely, dr. Hilary godwin, dean of school of Public Health university of washington. No part of the American Economy has escaped the impact of the covid 19 pandemic. The air and transportation sector has suffered a particularly painful blow, one intensified by Global Travel resections and stay at home orders, Domestic Travel has declined over 95 compared to last year. Planes are flying with 12 passengers on average. Half of the u. S. Passenger aircraft fleet is sitting idle. The air cargo sector is marginally better, but still struggling. Just last month, demand for air cargo plunged 15 , and transport capacity declined about 1 5 compared to last years figures. Even as the Global Economy recovers, the future remains troubling for aviation. Measured by new booking is down 97 yearoveryear. A recent International Air travel Association Survey shows that 40 of passengers planned to wait at least six months before booking a ticket. I certainly hope they will think that. The situation is dire not only for airlines and for their workers, but also for the air transportation sector. Which relies upon a vast ecosystem in order to function. This sector includes airports and their concessions, maintenance and repair stations, ticket space operators, and other Ground Support contractors, and the entire Aerospace Industrial base. A lot of these businesses are momandpop operations. Many of their hours, many of their workers are hourly, living paychecktopaycheck. I would welcome our witnesses comments on the current state of aviation, and thoughts on the future. Congress has recognized the importance of preserving the air and transportation sector, which is critical for so many other industries and our society generally. The cares act and through that includes 32 billion for support in assistance for air carriers and contractors. Administered by the treasury, the Payroll Support Program has prevented mass layoffs across the industry. All 13 Major Airlines and hundreds of regional and small carriers have signed up to participate. Billions of dollars in assistance has already been provided, recognizing the great need for liquidity. The cares act also included 29 billion in loans within the treasurys Economic Stabilization fund, esf, for air carriers, Aviation Repair repair stations, and ticket stations. In doing so, congress provided muchneeded liquidity, not a bailout. There are measures in the Payroll Support Program, and esf loans must be paid back with interest. Beyond direct payroll support and loans, the cares act provided further relief with a tax holiday for commercial flights and passengers through the end of the calendar year. The cares act also requires the secretary of transportation to impose reasonable continuation of Service Obligations on airlines receiving assistance. Americans living in rural areas and small communities deserve the access to air travel and congo cargo delivery. The cares act delivered 10 billion into the nations airports to help them maintain operations and to service debts. The committee is interested in hearing the witnesss views on the cares act. We would also welcome perspectives on priorities for future and potential litigation. No act of congress can help the industry if it is unsafe for passengers and crew makers to fly, and for other aviation workers to do their jobs. To that end, the committee is interested in the steps being taken to protect workers and the flying public. The air transportation sector bears a special responsibility to prepare for and actively mitigate Communicable Disease outbreaks. Covid19 is the latest outbreak, but it will not be the last. Air travel is the crucial element that can turn a local outbreak affecting a few, into a Global Pandemic affecting billions of human beings. The committee would welcome the witnesss views on the need for new regulations or standards at both the national and International Levels to harden the air transportation sector against the possibility of future pandemics. I want to thank our distinguished panel for participating today and express our sincere gratitude for everything the industry is doing to help our nation whether this crisis. I now turn to my friend, Ranking Member cantwell, for her comments. Sen. Cantwell thank you mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this important hearing. I want to note that while my colleague, senator blumenthal is here along with me, that we have six or seven of our colleagues were joining us remotely, and we thank them for being part of this hearing today. The impact of the covid 19 pandemic is fundamentally a Public Health crisis, but its impact on the economy is global without parallel. The coronavirus has heightened the importance and also the vulnerability of our aviation ecosystem. We need to connect america, its communities, and we need to keep employing people around the globe. We have learned, just as with the spanish flu, that this virus travels through people and transportation routes and sectors. So we know we are here today to talk about what are the impacts of the virus on aviation, and what do we need to do for the future to better prepare. On march 27, the cares act was signed into law, and restored part of a 2 trillion rescue package was pacifically dedicating 32 billion in payroll assistance for workers, and 46 billion dollars in loans to stabilize americas aviation sector. We are going to hear today from some of the witnesses to talk about that. But particularly i want to emphasize the fact that we want to hear from the Treasury Office about the Payroll Support Program, and ensuring that the cares act was used specifically to support payroll protection. I also want to hear from the Aviation Manufacturing sector, and what this legislation has done to help us keep essential aviation workers that are so critical for americas competitiveness in a manufacturing economy. In particular, we want to see how the aviation sector is responding post this covid cares act legislation, but we are very concerned that one hours are being reduced of aviation, Airline Workers, this is counter what the legislation entailed. I will be sending a letter along with senators brown and schumer to the treasury secretary to clarify that mandatory, or force reductions in payroll hours is not what the cares act intended. We recognize the challenges facing the industry, and we recognize the challenges in facing this disease. We know that demand has plummeted and that airplanes are grounded and that airports have been empty, so we are going to hear today about those challenges and how we can keep moving forward to protect the flying public as they return. We are going to hear from a witness eric fanning who is going to talk about how this business was critical to National Security of the aviation sector, and what we can do to continue to move forward with getting manufacturing in a safe environment. We are also going to hear from mr. Hauptli about airports. Clearly they have been impacted by revenue, and cares act helped with resources to sustain them through this crisis. I especially want to welcome and hear from dr. Hilary godwin, dean of the Washington School of Public Health and professor of Occupational Health sciences p while we are focusing on the impacts of industry, we need to think about this disease and what we need to do to prepare and we ner scientists like dr. Godwin. They will tell us how best to protect workers, they will tell us how to best protect the public, and particularly in the case of resurgence. Dr. Godwins expertise has played a strong and active role in washingtons response to the coronavirus, and right now i believe that we need multiple federal agencies like cdc, nih, dhs, and d. O. T. To better coordinate information to the traveling public about the phases of reopening. We have states and Public Health authorities across the country looking for leadership to tell our aviation traveling public what are the most necessary procedures, and how to follow them. I do not want to see a balkanization of safety issues where everybody has somewhat poor of an opinion, or even of the industry. I want to see a uniformed standard that this is what safety and aviation requires on the manufacturing side, in our airports, and on our plans. So i look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today. We need to show the traveling public that we can make aviation safe for the future. We need to discuss what those Solutions Look Like today and make sure that we are enforcing Public Health standards in reaching those goals. So thank you, mr. Chairman, for having the hearing. I would, if i could, also enter into the record a letter from the association of flight attendants on their testimony as it relates to the covid package and the Payroll Support Program, making sure that workers are not forcefully reduced in hours. Sen. Wicker without objection, that letter will be admitted into the record at this point. I wish the viewing public could see how scrupulously we are honoring the distancing requirements. I can barely see our witnesses down at the other end, but we have monitors also. We appreciate you being here. I know it has come at some inconvenience, so thank you all. And we will begin with the honorable eric fanning. Mr. Fanning, you are recognized for five minutes to summarize your testimony. The entire statement will be included in the record, of course. Hon. Fanning chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell, and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me today to discuss this important topic. The covid 19 pandemic touches every person, family, business, industry, and economy. It is a global threat that we must all do our part to overcome. With that goal in mind, the aerospace and Defense Industry has been focused on three critical lines of effort. First, protecting the health and economic wellness of our workforce, which is vital to our industry and nation pits second, supporting our Industry Partners and shared supply chain. Third, helping our communities and country with the covid19 response. The Aerospace Industry has been hit hard by this pandemic. Especially with the decline in air travel worldwide. Air travel in 2020 is estimated to drop at least 50 from 2019. As a result, a substantial number of orders have been canceled over the past few weeks on top of cancellations experienced over the past year. Due to this decrease in demand, our members have already announced layoffs and furloughs. Including one company that had to lay off 50 of its staff. Unfortunately we may see more in the future. Unlike others, our Companies Must also weigh the impact on our nations security. As many cross over into civil and defense sectors, even a copy with only 10 of its business on National Security can affect critical defense projects if their work is placed on a fold, or they have to close. And while some industries see business return quickly, the nature of our industry and customers involved longterm. Not weeks, but years. There are many reasons for that. Even once orders for new aircraft are made again, it take it takes longer to build and deliver a plane then it does a pizza. Our workers are also some of the most skilled in the world. If we do not keep them employed, we can see workforce shortages when orders for products and maintenance start again. The industrys recovery will also be affected by the success of other nations battling the epidemic and how quickly passengers around the world return to the skies. This is a shared responsibility of the companys represented before you today. On the manufacturing side for example, we are confident that the air exchange and Filtration Systems use in our plans can help mitigate the risk of the spread of the virus. And we are working to share this Safety Information with our customers and the public. And our Airline Partners already have strong disinfection standards in place. And we are coming together to enhance them through partnerships at this table, and in our international organization, the international coordinate and council of Aerospace Industries associations. We are also working with the International International Civil Aviation to ensure the best disinfection methods and products consistently in air travel around the world. Ultimately, how people feel about flying is what will give a lift to our interconnected industries. Thankfully, congress and the administration have taken action. The federal effort to designate several manufacturing efforts is essential. It is helping many of our members both protect jobs and stabilize the Defense Industrial base. The dods assistance also helped our companys advance millions of dollars in vital liquidity to Small Businesses in our shared supply chain. The cares act also provided important tools to navigate this crisis, like the paycheck protection plan. Which our company is described as a lifeline. In a recent survey of our members, over 60 of those who responded applied to ppp. When companies did not qualify, the number jumped to 80 . We believe there can be improvements. Two of the most article tools possesses need in a crisis are cash flow influx ability. Unfortunately, some of the aid programs had conditions that prevented companies from assessing the aid at the speed influx ability required. Moving forward, the safety of our employees remains our top priority. That is why we are developing safety recommendations for companies returning the facilities. These will be based on Lessons Learned from our essential businesses who are still safely operating. We also look to congress to both build on aid already provided, and help shape policies to jumpstart the recovery. One potential step is analyzing aid criteria and conditions and determine the best way to make it easier to access help. We also request temporary and targeted assistance for the ailing Aviation Manufacturing sector. Theres strong support in our industry for a Publicprivate Partnership to protect jobs and keep at risk employees on the payroll through the pandemic. This would help with what is most important to us, keeping our workers employed while also helping to unburden state programs. Finally, we must continue to privatize research and develop, because investing in the future is vital in maintaining our global leadership. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Wicker thank you very much. Mr. Calio, you are recognized. Mr. Calio am i on . Thank you for holding this hearing. Sen. Wicker i see you sent your grandfather. [laughter] mr. Calio yes, sir, i did. Either that or papa smurf. Sen. Wicker santa claus, it looks like. Reset the timer. Mr. Calio sincerely, on behalf of the 750,000 employees and nations airlines, we want to thank you for passing the cares act. In particular chairman wicker, thank you and your staff or your unwavering leadership during the legislative debate. Ranking member cantwell, you and your staff as well, thank you. U. S. Airlines were among the First Industries to feel the Economic Impacts of the pandemic, and without the passage of the cares act, the nearterm impacts of covid19 would have been even more devastating than they have been. We are thankful to many, but this committee in particular send the industry a lifeline during its most humbling moment, and it is something that we really did need. In preparing these remarks, i thought back just a few short weeks ago, and it was just a few short weeks ago. Its a very different world now. At that time, u. S. Airlines were experiencing what was called by some the golden age of aviation. Americans were flying and shipping in record numbers. That was driven by two main factors affordability and accessibility. Air travel was more accessible than ever. Just weeks ago, u. S. Airlines were flying an average of 2. 5 million passengers each day, shipping 58,000 tons of cargo every day all over the world. Amid record travel and shipping, u. S. Airlines reinvested in their workforce. Collectively they spent 424 billion on their employees in the last decade. They boosted wages and benefits per worker by 56 , and hired 186,000 new employees. All indications suggested 2020 would be a record year as well. Then, the bottom fell out. In the most recent week alone, passenger volumes declined to levels we have not seen since the 1950s. Before the dawn of the jet age. Its remarkable, its almost surreal, and it is painful for everyone involved. The airports, our employees, the manufacturers, and everyone who travels in ships. For quick context, passenger volumes have fallen over 95 . More than 3000 airplanes have been put in storage. That is 50 of the United States active fleet. Despite the sharp reductions in the number of flights, i think as chairman wicker pointed out, we are averaging 17 passengers per domestic flight and 29 per international flight. If you have been on a plane, it is eerie. U. S. Carriers at this point are losing 350 million to 400 million every day of the week. The crisis hit the robust Airline Industry at lightning speed. Unfortunately, the recovery will not be as quick. It will be a long and difficult road ahead, and everyone involved has to join hands and work on it together. Passenger volume took three years to recover after 9 11, and seven years after the financial crisis. The duration and breadth, compounded by the larger impacts on the economy, leave no doubt that the u. S. Airline industry will emerge a shadow of what it was on march 1 of this year. That said, we have a history of being resilient, and reacting to this new normal as quick as possible to address the near, mid, and longterm challenges of the pandemic. While addressing Consumer Confidence will take many actions, both by the public and private sector, we are aggressively dealing with the variables that we can control. Last week, Member Airlines agree that customers must wear face masks along with employees on every flight. We hope that will extend throughout the entire flight, from arriving at the airport to leaving. We have also implemented a range of other policies. Wherever possible, modifying boarding procedures to put passengers further apart from each other. As mr. Fanning pointed out, we have increased our cleaning. We are exceeding cdc recommendations. A number of highly enhanced cleaning procedures including fogging and electrostatic cleaning. We are using Temperature Checks for some of our employees, and discussing with some Government Agencies involved about whether that should be expended. Anyway, we are taking substantial steps, there are many more to speak about, to try to protect our employees and passengers, who every day, their safety is our highest priority. We are also going to continue to work with government and Health Officials across the country to ensure that travel continues, and that essential shipments and personnel and relief supplies are delivered to the communities that need them. We want to thank the committee again and the congress and the Prime Minister ration, because the cares act has given us some breathing room to move onto the next step to try to survive where we are. The bottom line is this is a matter of sheer gut survival. These businesses have been crippled in a matter of seven weeks. We are looking to come back, find our footing, find our way to the next step, and lead our economy to recover. Thank you very much. Sen. Wicker thank you very much. Mr. Hauptli, welcome. Mr. Hauptli thank you, mr. Chairman. As a passenger, when you approach boarding gate at an airport, you are literally walking distance to almost anywhere on the planet. But you dont walk alone. It takes aircraft manufacturers, safety inspectors, mechanics, airport employees, and tsa screeners. It takes pilots and flight attendants. Air Traffic Controllers and gate agents. It takes ramp workers and few and cargo handlers. And the magic of flight. It takes all of them and more. The Aviation Industry is an intricate, interconnected, justintime enterprise. It requires each of us to do our job as safely and as efficiently as possible, time after time after time. And while aviation allows for the movement of people and goods across the country and around the globe, it is also the oxygen that fuels our economy. And we need a healthy industry in order to return to a healthy economy. Mr. Chairman, i have three additional points i would like to make. One, thank you, and thank you to the committee for the leadership in the passage of the cares act. Life lights are a lifeline that will protect jobs, enhanced cleaning and sanitization efforts, ensure debt payments will be made, and help keep Construction Projects moving forward, at least in the near term. Point number two, the challenges facing airports and our Industry Partners are unprecedented, and will require further federal support to meet ongoing needs, and to prepare for what will become the new normal. Billions of dollars in revenue at airports expected to be generated by passengers and pfc collection has evaporated. Given the significant incline in Aviation Activity and revenue, and the precipitous drop in passenger facility charge collections that help support bond payments, airports will need additional federal assistance at least as large as the initial amount provided in the cares act. And Congress Must provide billions of dollars in Financial Support for other parts of the aviation ecosystem. General aviation airports, Business Aviation, concessionaires, and other airport partners that have been significantly dislocated and impacted by the crisis. I recognize its not popular to come up here and ask for more help, but the scale and the scope of this crisis requires it. And we are going to have to get past the sticker shock and get to yes. Third point, in addition to the federal resources, the Aviation Industry needs clear and consistent federal guidelines and standards to protect passengers and workers now and as travel returns to the system. Airports are already working diligently to clean and sanitize their facilities. They are taking steps to promote physical distancing, upgrading air Filtration Systems, and promoting a touchless travel experience. Face coverings are becoming more prevalent at airports, airlines, and our federal partners, all requiring their use throughout the travel journey. Health screenings is another area that requires a consistent approach. We need clear and consistent processes and procedures throughout the system so that passengers know what to expect, regardless of the airline or airport they happen to choose for the travel. We have great federal partners with tsa administrator perkowski and faa administrator dixon, and i want to publicly thank them and their teams for the proactive approach have taken to help. The road ahead wont be easy, mr. Chairman. I am reminded of the churchill line when you are going through hell, keep going. Resiliency is a hallmark of the Aviation Industry. We survived 9 11, we survived the great recession, and countless other hurdles, and we will survive the challenges before us now. Thank you. Sen. Wicker thank you very much, very much. And now dr. Godwin joining us from seattle. And i think dr. Godwin, we already done a mic test. Dr. Godwin good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to testify during this unusual time about health, safety, and air travel during the covid19 pandemic. My name is hilary godwin, dean of the university of Washington School of Public Health, and professor of Occupational Health finances. As we enter the next phase of the pandemic, resumption of regular flights will be pivotal to economic recovery. However, this will pose a Public Health challenges. As the volume of passages, frequency of air travel begins to increase, the Aviation Industry and Public Health officials must Work Together to prioritize keeping airports, airplanes, and the public safe. On a typical day in a not too distant past, millions of individuals would flow through airports, including people coming from and traveling to many different locations around the globe. These numbers have dropped dramatically in recent weeks but will undoubtedly start to increase as we restart the economy. The likelihood that healthy individuals will interact with people infected with covid19 increases exponentially as the number of people passing through airports increases. Key strategies to reduce threats in airports include frequently disinfecting surfaces and providing ready access to hand sanitizer, maintaining social distancing, and requiring employees and travelers to wear face coverings. As the number of individuals who are flying increases, it will be critical to keep airplanes safe for employees and travelers. The measures i described need to be applied on planes in addition to in terminals. Additional strategies include requiring health Filtration Systems be used on all planes and thoroughly disinfecting planes between flights. A final but equally important priority is keeping the public safe. Key strategies that can help reduce the risk of introducing new outbreaks of covid19 in our communities that are beginning to heal include the following. First, requiring that all flight manifests be maintained, including Contact Information for all passengers. Public and private entities must Work Together to develop a system that allows Public Health departments to access this information quickly so they can reach individuals who were potentially exposed while traveling. We also need to develop National Guidance for limiting covid19 transmissions in u. S. Airports and on flights that originate from or terminate in the United States. While most Public Health measures are left to the discretion of fate, it would be difficult to communicate and enforce a set of regulations and guidance for travelers going from one state to another or entering into the United States through different states. Finally, we will need to develop and deploy Effective Communications campaigns for employees and travelers about the importance of adhering to these measures, both in airports and on planes. In recent years, we have seen an increase in the density of people in both airports and on planes. Covid19 requires us to rethink, Public Health conservation must play a bigger bowl than before. Developing guidance that promotes safety makes individuals feel more comfortable returning to air travel. Ive realized that these changes will not be easy. Each of the strategies i mentioned previously comes with limitations and logistical challenges. However, combining them create a net that will help to reduce risks to millions of individuals who work in, travel using, and benefit from the Aviation Industry each day. Cadwell, and committee members, air travel is a critical part of our economy. As we resume air travel, we must prioritize keeping airports, airplanes, and the public safe. We can implement a variety of measures to limit virus transmission throughout the travel journey. The Aviation Industry and lawmakers must work closely with Public Health agencies to integrate new information as it comes to light and to ensure that communities have a plan, tools, and resources to identify potentially exposed individuals during and after air travel. We will all benefit if Public Health professionals are involved in these conversations throughout the planning process. I thank you for this opportunity and welcome any questions. Sen. Wicker thank you very much, dr. Godwin, and thanks to all our panelists for their remarks. Let me begin my questions with mr. Calio. Has the assistance provided by the cares act achieved its objective in preventing the mass layoffs of hundreds of thousands of workers . Are you able to quantify how many Airline Workers have had their jobs preserved by the cares act . Mr. Calio mr. Chairman, the cares act is working. The jobs have been preserved, they are preserved through september 30. As i think i said in my oral comments, the cares act provided a bridge, gave us muchneeded liquidity. It also had a good effect, side effect, it opened up the private markets to further pump up their liquidity. All of it intended to try to keep their employees. I referenced how many employees we hired in the last 10 years. We had 10 profitable years in a row and invested that money, we have a Good Relationship with our employees. Every day is not perfect, but we value our employees because of the backbone of our industry. The last thing we want to do is lose employees. We are in a difficult situation. We are fighting for our survival, we need our employees, and in the Airline Industry, they are various certifications, training requirements, so keeping the employees on will speed any ramp up we have later on. Sen. Wicker ok. The papal support program, lets the Payroll Support Program, lets talk about that. The treasury impose a 24 cut. Were you surprised by this, mr. Calio . We have heard concerns that the funding might not be sufficient for after september and until the industry genuinely recovers. Congress included 29 billion dollars in Economic Stabilization for the Airlines Critical partners. You mentioned that private sources of liquidity had come available and im glad that whatever we did may have helped in that regard. Do your members believe that accommodation of direct assistance together with loans and private sources will be enough to sustain employment after the end of this fiscal year . Mr. Calio our members are doing everything we can to ensure the greatest level of employment possible. We were dismayed by the haircut. One things that needs to be pointed out, most people dont realize, we took the position that would keep everyone we would keep everyone until september 30. That will cover what they got in the loan grant portion of the cares act, the psp. It will cover anywhere from 50 to 80 of their expenses. Sen. Wicker i think we were surprised that it was oversubscribed. I did not hear anyone predict that. It is hard to know when you are putting together such a massive program in a few days. Mr. Hauptli, let me ask you about the 10 billion in grants distributed over 3000 eligible airports. The cares act, used for many purposes, including financing daytoday operations, and servicing debt payments. There have been some concerns. The formula used to allocate commercial service credits, created some surprise outcomes. Some airports were entitled to receive a surprisingly large amount, others not so much. Secondly, the 100 million dedicated for general aviation airports is said not to be enough. Would you comment on those . Mr. Hauptli certainly. Yes, the formula did create out of 3200 some some odd airports, there were a couple dozen where there were surprises. 99 out of 100 is not bad for the faa on that. But there were some anomalies in their for sure. I agree with you that 100 million for the general Aviation Community is not going to be enough, as i indicated in my testimony. We believe billions of dollars will be necessary in additional funding beyond money for airports, also for general aviation, Business Aviation, and concessionaires. Sen. Wicker thank you very much. Senator cantwell. Sen. Cantwell thank you. I have many questions, so hopefully we will get a second round here and maybe i will predicate with something to think about. Mr. Fanning, i want to follow up on your comments about the workforce and who we are losing right now because these are skilled workers that was they disappear and find a job wherever they can, that has health care, i want to know what we will do about health care because they only have one month of health care benefits, then you will be in a pandemic still, you will find a job with health care, will not wait. When we restart in a more aggressive way, where are those workers going to be . If you think about that. I would like to go to dr. Godwin, if i could. Thank you for your articulate steps on what we have to do to return safety, Public Health safety, to aviation. Thanks for the university of washingtons leadership in our state as we have dealt with this. He could not have dealt with a crisis in our state without the university of washington. Thank you for everything they have been doing on testing and with the institute of Health Metrics evaluation and with this Innovative Program on covid safe. Cant thank you enough. What level of travel do you think that aviation, if we were following the guidelines and implementing a National Guideline policy, as you discussed, what level of air travel do you think we could achieve safely . Dr. Godwin thats a great question. I guess im less worried about what level we can achieve at this point because we have come out working in our favor, right now, we are starting from low levels, and we dont expect a switch to flip it all of a sudden to go up to super high levels of travel. We expect people to reenter and to travel gradually. That gives us a period of time to implement these measures in a way that is protective of travelers and airport personnel and workers. As we see the levels start to increase, hopefully people also start to see the systemic continue to wane. So my hope would be that by the time we get up to higher levels of travelers, that we that some of the risks associated with covid19 may be denied showing diminishing. I think the most important thing to convey is this question of normally, we would try to apply fly as few planes as possible with as many people and what we know from Public Health is that is that close proximity of individuals for an extended period of time that creates the greatest risk of transmission. We want to balance that to lower the cost with those Public Health safety considerations. Sen. Cantwell thank you. That is so important, because you are saying what my father used to say, he is a navy man. Steady as she goes. You try to implement the health care policy, that is our best bet, implement Health Care Policies and we can move forward. Mr. Calio, what about getting a National Guidance policy that is across the United States, hopefully not more hopefully lets not say to the flying public, we will charge you to keep the middle seat open . Lets get the airlines to do the right distancing if that is what it takes. What about getting a National Guideline policy implement it . [inaudible] point a to point b. It is a moneylosing proposition, which means it is a job loss proposition. Hopefully by the time we reach the point where travel is picking up, other measures will be in place, vaccines, testing, that will give the public the assurance they need to protect our employees and the customers. In terms of National Guidelines, there is a lot going on voluntarily. Our preference would be to go down that route. I think it is great that dr. Godwin is on the panel today, so we have the opportunity to talk about these things. We have not talked about this with many other experts in the area and we would be happy to talk to you about it. Sen. Cantwell i want to say to mr. Calio, if your partner associations i think it is united backing off at what they were trying to do unforced our reduction was the right move, but i hope that jetblue and delta are going to do the same things. We are going to get out of the treasury the right guidance on this and clearly, we want to help protect the payroll of those individuals, so thank you. Sen. Wicker thank you, senator cantwell. Senator rand joins us remotely. Take you for doing this hearing. Thanks to our witnesses for joining us. I will try to get a couple questions in. One for secretary fanning. You indicated during her testimony about the importance of what the retention of workforce is. There is a legislative effort to try to accomplish a Publicprivate Partnership in that regard. You speak specifically to the importance of having established a manufacturing workforce that is intact, on what the cois dusty covid19 on what the covid19 consequences are behind us. What interests that involves, and what repercussions expect to see on the industry without establishing the kind of effort the Publicprivate Partnership . Mr. Fanning we have two primary concerns that in many ways are one in the same, protecting the industrial base, shared commercial and defense in many cases, and preserving our workforce, which is critical. It is hard for our companies to recruit the right workforce. They spend a lot of time and money training them and working on retaining them and we want to make sure the workforce is there when we come out of this. We also recognize that this is a longterm situation for us. We are looking for solutions that allow us to do that over a longer period of time and we think a privatepublic model will allow us to share those costs with government and extend the period of time that we do this beyond just getting to the fall because we need to have that workforce there when orders start coming in, which is a longterm prospect, in order to deliver on those and help get the economy going again. Sen. Moran thank you. Let me see if i can get a question in for mr. Hauptli. Tell me what you think the condition of airports will be in the future, at the point in time in which covids consequences are behind us, how will airports be different than than they are prior to covid, and give you a chance to highlight if there is a dramatic cap in what is required, what is needed, to get rid of that detriment has occurred . Mr. Hauptli thank you for the question. They will be cleaner, airports will be cleaner. There is a lot of sanitization and cleaning that has gone on. It has never been a cleaner facility. We will see that in the future. There will be thermal cameras in place. There will be plexiglas in place. There will be physical distancing in place. There will be a lot of changes. Members of the Senate Travel back and forth every week. It will be a different travel experience for all of you in the future. That is going to cost billions of dollars in the money made available in the cares act is a great initial first step, but as i indicated, it will require Additional Resources for airports to institute those measures that i talked about, the touchless travel experience, people are not going to want to put their fingerprints down on things, they are not going to want to touch, they are going to want to check in in a different fashion, they will need standoff detection equipment, there is an array of things that will look and feel different that you will see as a passenger and that you wont see behind the screen, if you will. Sen. Moran i would not want to miss the opportunity, in case you could help me demonstrate or indicate the importance of the Contract Tower Program. Is it playing any particular will in covid19 . And highlight for the committee, if you would, the importance of that program. Mr. Hauptli thank you for the question. The Contract Tower Program is important, the contract tower controllers and those towers like the federal towers and federal controllers are in the middle of all of this in the response to covid19. Medevac flights, air ambulances, cargo that is bringing in medical supplies, military training, these are all occurring within the Contract Tower Programs and at those facilities. In my testimony, i talked about the importance of not only the program, but the need to provide the contract tower airports with 8 million. There is 93 nonprimary commercial service and general aviation airports that will require that 8 million, about 88,000 a piece to help with increased janitorial services, improvements at their facilities, etc. I want to thank you and the majority of the committee for your support of the contract act, which provides incentives for retired federal air Traffic Controllers to move over and become contract controllers. That is very important. Sen. Moran thank you for highlighting that. Me say, let me say, i should think all air Traffic Controllers fully effort that they are undertaking. Ive had conversations with controllers in kansas city at wichita and there seems to be significant cooperation between them and their employers and the system seems to be working as a result of that. I think the air Traffic Controllers for their work. Sen. Wicker thank you. Next is senator klobuchar. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you for giving this remote option. We have worked hard on this and we are glad it is working successfully. First, i want to thank our witnesses we know how tough this is right now to be working in airlines, whether it is at an employee, whether it is as a passenger. We also know that it is hard for other people in travel and tourism as well. I want to follow up on something that senator cantwell was asking about at the end and that was making sure that passengers right now can stay at a safe distance and how important it is to protecting their health, but recent news reports, as he pointed out, indicate that at least one airline, that is frontier, is requiring customers to pay an additional 39 fee for a more room option, which will come with a blocked off middle c to provide passengers with additional distance from other travelers. This is already a Budget Airline and im concerned, i dont think it is appropriate for some passengers who cant afford to pay an Additional Charge for a seat to be less safe than other travelers. I wondered if you could comment on that. Do you think we need to have guidelines on the cdc . What do we have to do to fix this . I would also ask dr. Godwin for thoughts about it. Mr. Calio. Mr. Calio thank you, senator. None of a4a are charging for separating their passengers. As i said earlier, our members are making every effort to keep passengers as separate as possible to keep them comfortable. We are following cdc guidelines. We are boarding from the back to the finder so people dont have to pass each other. In many cases, we are passing on masks. We are requiring masks as well. Sen. Klobuchar if there wasnt some kind of test if they made this mandatory now or guidelines in place, it would not be a problem for the rest of these airlines, the ones that are your memories . Mr. Calio i did not hear your question. Sen. Klobuchar it would not be a problem for your airline if there was some rule in place . Mr. Calio i think they will put in place is not necessary at this time. Hopefully the marketplace will take care of that. Sen. Klobuchar dr. Godwin . Dr. Godwin thank you, senator. I think the example you raised is exactly the reason that some National Level guidance, even if it is not likely she, at least guidance should be made available, like to recommend the airports that are stepping up and doing a great job, just having some uniformity across the industry and across the nation would be very helpful for travelers to have a better sense of what they can expect. Sen. Klobuchar thank you. Thats very helpful. Also, could i ask you, we have the Contact Tracing issue. Do you think airlines are doing enough to collect passenger information and making it available for Public Health officials . And should we be doing this voluntarily . Do we need guidelines on this as well . Dr. Godwin this is another area where i feel strongly that National Guidance would be helpful. As you are probably aware, and other people who are testifying can provide more details, the last report that i saw suggested that the airlines right now, we are getting baby 56 of passenger emails as part of the pnrs, and 75 with phone numbers. That information needs to be more complete and it needs to be consistently gathered and also put into a system that is valley acceptable to our local health that is readily acceptable to our local health restrictions. One thing that is challenging in the United States is Contact Tracing is something that is less than local jurisdiction, so we need to have a system where each one of those local jurisdictions can have access to this critical information so if someone shows up in their jurisdiction who has traveled recently and some positive for covid19, they can use that information to contact other people who came in contact with that person when they are thought to have been infectious. Sen. Klobuchar thats very helpful. I will leave my other question for the record. Thank you very much. Sen. Wicker thank you. Senator blumenthal. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, and the Ranking Member. Thank you for having this important hearing. Secretary fanning, i want to begin by saying, im very grateful and keenly aware of the points that you raised about the aerospace supply chains. May of them are in connecticut, they are struggling, we sought to aid them to the ppe. I would like to work with you on other ideas and initiatives that you may have in mind. A number of us in the senate, senator warren, myself, doug jones of alabama, Bernie Sanders of vermont, spanning the ideological spectrum of the Democratic Party but also some on the republican side, have fought for a paycheck security act that would replace many of these programs and guarantee all the payroll of these companies, keep them intact, and prevent the free fault that we see coming to workforces. That is an important point. I look forward to working with you. Mr. Calio, i was prepared in coming here to be conciliatory. But i must say, listening to your testimony in reading, the paragraph that says in effect, and im quoting, to stem untenable cash drain, basically, the airlines will continue their practices. Regarding refunds to consumers, i want to go to you an article from last week, april 29, on the wall street journal, that begins with the following. The United States Airline Bailout ended up with no relief for travelers stuck with vouchers from airlines refusing refunds. Now airlines are getting more creative, even duplicitous, in pushing vouchers on customers to whom they owe money. That is a news article, not an opinion piece. The report that i have seen, and i ask that this article and one from npr in the last week or so, as well as politico, to be entered into the record. And also a letter from the Airline Pilots association. Sen. Wicker without objection. Sen. Blumenthal these document what we are hearing from our constituents. They are receiving no cash refunds from canceled flights because they are given misleading and sometimes deceptive responses when they go to claim those cash refunds. Instead, they are given vouchers of questionable value. They need that cash in their pockets to put food on the table and pay their rent and utilities. They feel betrayed. When you come to us and ask for more assistance, my mind goes back to the bailout we have just given you. More than 25 billion in taxpayer money, now, in effect, you are continuing to mislead and deceive those taxpayers who have given you that bailout, in effect, you are forgive me, screwing the taxpayers whose money is going into your pocket and you are giving basically no relief if those passengers on their own have to cancel flights out of the concern for Public Health. I think that you come to this committee im speaking not about you personally, please dont take it personally the industry comes to this committee with a history. It is a history of bumping passengers, applying fees, shrinking seats, taking tax breaks, using them for stock buybacks, and executive compensation, and i think getting those passengers back into your seats will depend on credibility. Which you are failing to earn back. You wont get passengers back in your seats, your companies more be back on their feet, you both get those planes back in the sky. Unless you regain trust and credibility, and the policies that you have on refunds, which is basically to mislead consumers into taking vouchers or denying them any refunds if they themselves have to cancel those flights, i think is leading you down a very dangerous path. I would be eager to hear your response. Mr. Calio thank you, senator. First, i appreciate and understand your concerns. As a passenger under current law and regulation, any passenger under bar and regulation are offered a voucher that has been clarified by d. O. T. , it cannot happen. It ought to be they are entitled to a refund. There are two bad choices here, however. It has been said that we should ignore or change the current law in regulation so any canceled as any passenger who cancels is entitled to a refund. I will lay it out for you. Right now, revenue negative revenue exceeds bookings. That is where we are bleeding that cash every day. It is one choice, you can insist that everybody get a refund who canceled the flight themselves, instead of a voucher, or you can drive the Companies Towards bankruptcy, which would happen quickly at the rate things are going in terms of the revenue coming in. For all of our members right now, refunds are exceeding revenues. If we want to protect the airline employees and keep us in business, it is a hobsons choice, is that the term . We regret that. I dont think we are misleading anybody. There were reports four or five weeks ago where passengers were encouraged to take vouchers instead of refunds. I dont believe that is happening anymore. Sen. Blumenthal these reports are very recent. The wall street journals report is from last week. The calls on getting from my constituents are within 24 hours. As you point out, there is a federal law that requires you to not only make refunds, but to tell passengers about those cash refunds. That is part of what you are failing to do. It may be painful, it may be inconvenient, but you are being sued, united and other companies, now in court because they are violating that obligation. You have a notice of enforcement from d. O. T. , april 3. They have delayed any enforcement action and you have a moral and political obligation to do the right thing because you are coming back for more money. That is taxpayer money and those taxpayers are the ones who ultimately are suffering from these practices. So you are killing the goose that lays the golden egg for you. Sen. Wicker mr. Calio, if you could answer briefly, we have allowed considerable leeway in this. Mr. Calio all i was going to say, in no way did i mention that we are coming back for more money. This money begot previously and the loan program already in place will be the bridge to the future that we need and not have to come back and asked for more money. Sen. Wicker thank you very much. Senator lee, you are next. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. This has been a difficult time for our country and we want to find solutions to make it better. Mr. Calio, i would like to start with you. The cares act provided a considerable amount of funding for airlines in the form of loans, loan guarantees, and cash assistance. The cares act also authorizes the u. S. Department of transportation to require that air carriers maintain scheduled flights that were in place prior to much to anyone. Given the drop in passengers that we have experienced, due to travel restrictions and other government impose mandates, does the requirement that you have to maintain air service at precovid19 levels and based on precovid19 flights, does that make sense and does it allow the Airline Industry to restructure and do what also needs to do to respond . Mr. Calio that is a very good question. First of all, we would like to commend the secretary and the staff, they have been wonderful partners in the passage of the act and trying to work with us on the essential air service. It is part of the cares act, it is causing a lot of claims to be flown with no passengers, one passenger, five passengers. That does not help any kind of liquidity problems and our employees in the long run. The law says it should be reasonable and practicable in terms of the continuation of services. We hope for a rationalization at a reasonable and practical language on behalf of our crews and the industry. It does not make sense when you have multiple carriers flying multiple flights into places where there is no demand. Sen. Lee if youve got flights that are continuing to take off, especially if those are redundant up other flights from the same carrier or another one, and his multiple flights are each operating with no passengers or with very few passengers, in the end, tell me how that harms the consumer of airline services, of airline tickets. Mr. Calio it harms the consumer because the recovery will be longer, the chance of keeping the most employees on board will be undermined, and if you want to look at it from an end buyer mental point of view, we should not be flying airplanes that are empty. Sen. Lee sure. When we look at it from a taxpayer standpoint, we have set aside a certain amount of money to help with this crisis. Wouldnt those same dollars go farther if we allowed additional x ability for airlines to take into account flights as to which there is no demand . Mr. Calio they would. Sen. Lee i think there is something of a false argument that the Aviation Industry cares nothing about health and safety of its customers or its employees. That ignores a fundamental truth that unhealthy customers and employees mean that you go out of business. It stands to reason that if you mistreat those who are your customers order employees, either one of them, especially both of them, it is not going to be good for business. Does this reflect what you see within the industry . Mr. Calio we do not we make the case all the time, passengers and shippers have been voting with their feet, so to speak. 2. 5 million passengers a day. I grew up i was born in the 1950s in cleveland, ohio. Nobody was able to get on an airplane ever. The first time i flew was when i was being recruited for a sport in college and i flew two times after that until i graduated law school because we could not afford it. It has been more accessible and affordable and the deregulation has helped. We care about our customers, the level of satisfaction last year was the highest ever. Not something that we produce. There are two sides of this equation. Somewhere, the facts bear out about our customers and employees. Sen. Lee the Airline Industry is still heavily regulated. Not in the same way it was prior to deregulation, when, as he pointed out, air travel was unaffordable for nearly all americans, but it is still heavily regulated, right . Mr. Calio if i recall correctly, 13 agencies, 20,000 regulations. Sen. Lee if we were to add to those regulations right now, we were to compound the Regulatory Compliance cost, what does that due to the affordability of air travel . Mr. Calio it decreases the affordability and increases the price. Sen. Lee in the end, what impact would that have on the health of the American People if they cant travel . Mr. Calio i think the American People would be disappointed. People get disappointed if there is a flight late. You take the sheets retake weather, things happen. We want to put a flight in the air of it if it is not safe in the air if it is not safe. I believe people have taken flying for granted for some time. It still thrills me every time i get on an airplane because growing up i could not do it, but i think it will be a real change in the American Peoples lives with the restrictions that are in place now on air travel out of necessity because of this pandemic and because of what is going to happen in terms of demand and potential cost later. Sen. Lee i look forward to having other conversations that are more favorable circumstances on ways that we can diminish unnecessary use of unnecessary terms like at this time and repetition of the same warnings over and over again. For now, we will have to leave it at that, given that im out of time. Thank you very much. Sen. Wicker senator lee, you think do you think how would we get around the antitrust problems in doing what you suggested . I think all of us would be happy to find a way not to empty plans. Sen. Lee i was hoping you were talking about the unnecessary yeah. There is a complicated relationship between regulated industries and competition. In the railroad industry, you have an elaborate system of regulations that inhibit competition. Youve got corresponding exemptions from a number of otherwise applicable antitrust laws. The same thing could be a model for this industry. Im not suggesting that anyone ought to simply shut down their flights, but what im saying, there ought not be artificial constraints by which we require an airline to continue operating air service for which there is no demand. There needs to be some flex ability on the part of the airlines because if there is not , we will burn through that money that much more quickly and people make air travel that much less affordable. Sen. Wicker surely we can think that through. Senator udall, youre joining us remotely, you are recognized. Thank you. Sen. Wicker we know to what we know what you look like. [laughter] thank you so much. I think this is directed at mr. Fanning, then maybe mr. Calio. We are hearing some calls from some industries that they want to be protected from paying damages to their employees and customers who get sick due to the lack of covid protections. After receiving tens of billions of taxpayer support, are the airlines asking to expand liability protections, and if so, what specific safety and Consumer Protection standards with the industry agree to in exchange for expanding protection from liability . Mr. Calio and mr. Fanning, though you both give that a shot . I want to come back on one more question here. Mr. Calio im going to come back by saying i will come back to you on that. I did not realize until yesterday that this issue had arisen and i dont like to talk about things that i dont know about. If i can get back to you in writing this is a big issue. I would prefer you tell me what you think today. We have you here before us, tell us what you think. Mr. Calio im not capable of answering the question appropriately, im sorry. How about mr. Fanning and the other airline witnesses . Mr. Fanning i would say, i dont think the conversation is at an early stage. Anybody that i know is thinking about this type of protection or exemption from people that are not following strict safety rules, regulations, at a. Minimum, what we hear from cdc and osha, but i know it is a concern for memories of my particularly Small Businesses that dont necessarily have the resources to confide Something Like this, we have a member of our executive committee who has a business with 110 people and she says this scares her to death. I would welcome having a conversation about this, but at a minimum, this is for people that are adhering to the highest safety standards. Sen. Udall would all the airline witnesses, would you agree to everything dr. Godwin outlined in her testimony . She has given specific disinfect between flights, so we can see Public Health people can get into Contact Tracing, everybody wears masks, overall reducing density on planes and airports, would you all agree to that . Those sound like good Public Health measures. Those are good issues to discuss. We have implemented we are implementing many of them. We are considering to discuss them with our regulators. We are happy to discuss this with the congress as well. There are things that need to be looked at and we will look at them. But to sign off on it in a single day after hearing them 30 minutes ago, i dont think is something im going to do today. Sen. Udall mr. Fanning, how about you . Mr. Fanning airplanes already have filters on them. In a larger sense, if we dont get the safety issue right, the whole thing falls apart. If you think about the sequence of the manufacturers building the planes, the airports being where you get on the planes, Airlines Flying the planes, if anyone does not get the safety aspect right, people are not going to fly. It has to be a priority and i think it is for everyone in the manufacturing sector. Sen. Udall thank you very much. What percentage of planes have filters . I think it is virtually all of them, but i can get you the exact number by breakdown. Sen. Wicker please do that. Next, senator tester going us remotely. First of all, thanks for testifying, thanks for sharing. Mr. Calio, the first thing i would say, this kind of goes off of senator lees question, you guys can reduce flights, you just dont have to have the same level of service, for example, to minneapolis, you dont have to have that be a direct flight, is that correct . Mr. Calio that is partially correct, to my knowledge. It depends on filing 40 exemption and how the dot rules on that exemption. Im here to tell you from personal esperance, we dont have near the service in montana now that we had two month ago. For example, i had to drive georgia 50 miles 250 miles to get here. Im from montana and it is a rural state. The first question i have is, congress has made it is important that airlines that are relying on this cash are held accountable. Can i get a commit from you that your association will work with numbers to ensure that all the airlines that you represent comply with congressional oversight of the cares act . Mr. Calio absolute. Sen. Tester good. I georgia a minute ago, im from montana. My concern is we are going to be disproportionately affected when air Service Comes back on and i will tell you, that could have enormous impact on our economy, our business community, however recreation economy, just go down the line. There have been a number of flights that have canceled, a bunch of flights canceled, i live in northcentral montana. The question is, when we weather the storm, im concerned that Financial Decisions will be made and we will still not have the service that we had before the cobit crisis. What are your recommendations to make sure that Rural America is not cut off after this crisis is over . Mr. Calio i guess what i would say is, the reason you had the flights you had prior dues epidemic was because there was demand for those flights. If that demand comes back, you will have the flights. Sen. Tester this applies to the economy as a whole, until we get testing and ultimately a vaccine, that demand is going to be diminished. If people think that flights are not if they think they can contract coronavirus on flights, that will push it back. What is the plan to be able to make sure that that Consumer Confidence is there in flying to make sure that those numbers do bounce back . Mr. Calio the plan is currently being executed and it is some of the things i mentioned before, the increased cleaning, which is substantial, the spacing people out while there is room to do and before there is a vaccine or testing. Sen. Tester this is tough doing this by videoconference, but if in fact we are going to have spacing within the airplane and we have to have the demand back to most every flight i flew, were packed to the gills. If we have spacing, we cant be packed to the gills. How can i assume we will have that level of service and you are going to have spacing and you are not going to have the numbers, in a 70 passenger airplane, you might only have 35 . Mr. Calio i was addressing your question about instilling confidence. While we are in the midst of the pandemic without sufficient testing and other items, we have, i guess, the luxury of spacing. We are doing that to help people feel like they can get back on the plane. I said earlier we cant space forever. That would be the same thing in terms of a movie theater, broadway sen. Tester i understand what you are saying. The question i have, from a rural perspective, im not arguing it should have been reduced, if the demand is not there, it should be reduced. But the bottom line is, if you are going to have people that have faith in the airlines and you expect members to be backed up before you ring those flights back, are those counter to one another . You are going to have to mute, senator markey. I miss that last part of what you said. Sen. Tester they seem to be going against one another. If we have to have the numbers back to get the flight schedule back, and if you have to have spacing to have the kind of luxury, at a minimum for a vaccine for this, how can we expect places like montana and it may apply to other places, by the way the ability to have the flights we had before, say, first of march. Mr. Calio i think it will be a product of demand any product of a private sector, Public Sector combination. Everyone working to instill confidence in the way you instill confidence in the public , in this particular case, the Health System to make sure people are comfortable and we can do every thing we can to make them comfortable and confident in flying. Sen. Tester i hope there is some liberty given to the rural state, otherwise it will be an economic killer. Airlines, as you know, are very important to our economy. Thats why the money was put forth in the cares act. Sen. Wicker senator tester, i like the haircut. I understand it took you seven weeks to go that head of hair. Sen. Tester when i grow up, i want to look like you, mr. Chairman. [laughter] sen. Wicker i think you look 20 years younger. We have senator duckworth next. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Two months ago, the subcommittee held a hearing about the bowl of aviation contending the disease. At the time, illinois had four into but you tested positive. Later, 65,000 have contracted covid19 and my state has confirmed that 2838 are known to have died from this pandemic. My heart breaks for every family and individual touched by this pandemic medically and economically. It is not clear that many of the systems we take for granted, including our aviation network, are not prepared for this pandemic despite having dealt with and having dealt with h1n1, people like, and mers. Congress provided the industry with a bailout, at the same time President Trump refused to support a single dollar to protect the 500,000 United States Postal Service employees Whose Mission is enshrined in the constitution. Leader mcconnell suggested that states and cities that employ millions of americans should use the bankruptcy route. I voted to protect workers, i will vote on future relief efforts based on how it helps workers. Our aviation workforce was at risk in march and continues to be, but this uncertainty extends to every corner of our economy and every community and our nation. I hope senators on both sides of the aisle can Work Together on Reasonable Solutions that protect and reinforce the livelihoods of all of our neighbors, not just a few. The Aviation Industry is not alone and its struggles, but it has received significant support ahead of many other deserving americans. That said, i want to associate myself with the comments of senator cantwell and others who highlighted a mismatch between the attempt to protect workers to the cares act and how that dynamic is playing out in agreements between airlines and the Treasury Department. This is a complicated topic, but i wonder commit that you will work with me and other senators to make sure all the facts are available and the issue is resolved. Mr. Fanny, it has been six weeks since Congress Passed the cares act, yet many of your members are still waiting on the Treasury Department to finalize their loan applications. I worked with senators to ensure companies that maintain and repair aircraft were eligible for loans in the package. Yet the furloughs they cares act was designed to prevent our happening because treasury is not approving applications in a timely manner. Airline contractors and Catering Companies are in the same boat. I assume you are as frustrated as i am. What are your memory telling you about treasurys process . Mr. Fanning is a herculean task, im sure, but the department is facing. In some instances, the bulls took longer than in other instances to be established and to get out to businesses for them to decide whether they were eligible for this. This is an area where it has been slower than other areas and im glad you are highlighting this. It is an enormous workforce that often gets forgotten in the Aviation Industry. Very quickly, but of course, when we move at that speed, we see where there are gaps in some things were mess that we are addressing in this next wave. A lot of Maintenance Work is not done at the airport or even on the plane. They were not covered in the legislation, so we are trying to get that fixed in the next wave. Thank you for keeping attention on this. Sen. Duckworth thank you. I asked mr. Calio at mr. Fanning to share their thoughts about the decision to approve the legato networks for 5g. While the decision was unanimous, no less than a dozen agencies opposed the effort saying it could harm our Global Positioning system. We are strongly supportive of the Development Deployment of 5g technology and are going to use it in our business but strongly oppose this decision. A decision impacting spectrum should be based on data and there are numerous interference on g. P. S. And has implications for air transportation and implications for everyones life every single day and we have proven there is interference there. We would like to have this decision changed and have a discussion about how to find room on the spectrum for 5g that we will be relying on. Airlines for america would associate itself with mr. Fannings comments. We are opposed to the f. C. C. Decision and needs to be creggetted. There are significant concerns and implications here that apparently the n. C. C. Unlike many other agencies and departments involved did not consider. Senator duckworth i yield back. Senator wicker senator cruz. Senator cruz thank you for holding this hearing on this critically important topic. Mr. Calio, i like the beard. It is a a strong look and it gives wisdom to this gathering. Mr. Calio i knew you would approve it. Senator cruz lets talk about Contact Tracing. As you are well aware since the beginning of this crisis, federal agencies have been attempting to mandate that your members collect data on passengers for Contact Tracing and that is important for stopping the spread of a pandemic, but there are serious although gist particular hurdles to executing upon on that. On march 4, seems like a lifetime ago, i chaired a subcommittee hearing on the coronavirus and its impact on aviation. And during that hearing, i asked Administration Officials if it would make sense for the government to run and maintain an online portal to compile passenger data. And the airlines as i understand it offered to cover the startup costs for that, but have it developed by a thirdparty vendor and stood up online. I sent a letter to senator sinema asking for the development of a web platform and the response we received from h. H. S. And Homeland Security and. Was less than encouraging. And thats the senator and i are working on Bipartisan Legislation that would have its government implement a secure portal for Contact Tracing instead of trying to force the carriers to carry out that function. In your judgment, whats the right to do this . And how can we keep people safe and be effective at it . Mr. Calio we thank you for getting involved in this. It has been a source of great frustration and trying to work with the c. D. C. On this for some time and havent been able to get our questions answered. This is a government function and the government needs to collect it. We are unable under our Current System to collect all the information they say that they want. Borne out of that frustration, we went to a thirdparty vendor and got a mobile app and website that so far it looks like it works and can get the information. We have offered to give that to the government because we dont think its appropriate for us to have that information. We only sell 50 of our own tickets. If someone comes back and says my email address is disneyworld. Com. We cant find out if they have a second phone number or not. If you want the information quickly and want to transmit it quickly so it can be effective, this should be run by the government who can require that the information be provided. What they have asked us to do would take 12 months, 14 months if we could do it and we will do it, but its not going to do anything for this pandemic. Meet the press while there are solutions right at hand. Along the way, the c. D. C. Has a website set up. But its not being used. There are questions to be answered here. We ought to be seeking solutions and doing them in the best way possible. Senator cruz we will continue to Work Together to implement a system that is safe and effective. As everyone on this committee is well aware, the economic consequences of this pandemic have been devastating to this country and across the world but aviation in particular has been hammered at an extraordinary level. In fact, i saw a recent statistic that to name just one of the major carriers, United Airlines is on pace to fly fewer people in the entire month of may, 2020, than they flew in just any single day in may of 2019. That is extraordinary. It is putting an enormous threat to millions of jobs across our country and all of us are united to be sure to come out of this crisis and we will come out of this crisis that we have a strong and robust commercial aviation sector. Critical to that is people being safe when they fly. And my question is what should we be doing as we transition into reopening the economy as we hopefully move out of this crisis, what should we be doing to enhance Consumer Confidence to help people feel comfortable and safe . And are there steps government should be doing to bring the flying public back and be willing to get on airplanes and travel . Mr. Calio it is making a visible display and understandable display of the steps we are taking, both the governments, the airlines, the airports and the manufacturers to protect the health of our customers and the flying public. And it goes broader than that actually. I think that is the first and biggest step and there are many things that can be done and working in concert with each other to look at what science and data. Candidly, we are doling polling and focus work group to find out what people really think and what its going to take them back on the airplane. We would be able to offer that briefing to anyone on this committee who would like it, but there have to be series of steps that ensure the health and safety of the flying public. We want to keep our employees working. But this hasnt happened before. And if we had all the answers, it would be little easier, but we are going day by day to make rational decisions based upon what we believe will happen and hope will happen and how we can hope to happen. Senator wicker thank you, senator cruz. Senator markey joining us remotely. Senator markey thank everyone who is making this day possible. Mr. Calio, the airlines right now are refusing to passengers who have canceled their own flights during this coronavirus pandemic. Understandably, families have great health concerns. They dont want to put their families in jeopardy. But the airlines are saying they dont want to give that money back to those families, but they want to give them a voucher for some future flight. But for families right now, that money in that pocket for food or housing, for other necessities is absolutely invaluable. So, mr. Calio, can you explain why the airlines are unwilling to just give that cash back to passengers and let them decide when they would want to ever fly again and give them that extra cash, which they need for their families right now . Mr. Calio i will try. First of all, we understand your concern. We understand our passengers concern. We work with our passengers to try to meet their needs and circumstances. Theres no good answer here. There are two bad choices. We could refund as you know under the current law and regulation, if you cancel your own flight, you are entitled to a voucher. And depends what kind of ticket you buy. If we cancel the flight, you are entitled to a cash refund. We are currently sticking to the regulations as we have to for a simple reason. We want to preserve the jobs in our industry and be part of the economic recovery. As i explained earlier, right now, refunds going out the door, cash refunds exceed the revenue we are taking in by a significant amount. We are losing between 350 and 400 million a day. Senator markey i understand that but spirit and allegiance have given refunds back to their passengers in this same situation and my feeling is that using these passengers as the way in which the airlines are able to get a cash flow is a situation where you are putting these families in a belt tightening situation. They have to make tough choices for their families. So, again, i recommend very strongly to you that given the federal governments help to the airlines that the airlines should, in turn, help these passengers give their money back. I think that would be the right thing to do. They need it as much as the airlines do right now. Its just a very difficult situation all around and i appreciate that. But theyre not flying because of Public Health catastrophe which has hit our country. They deserve to have that cash in their pocket. I just say that to you. And thats something that i think is a very important thing to do. And in the days to come, we have to address an unprecedented series of immediate and longterm counters in securing the safety of the flying public. A sample includes requiring all air travelers to wear masks, before boarding and security lines and the age of social distancing, enhancing cleaning procedures for airlines and passengerdeploying screenings and screenings for the coronavirus. It will take a lot more than one hearing to address these challenges as we prepare for a new normal after the pandemic subsides. Thats why senator blumenthal and i have introduced the restoring safety in the skies act. It restores Homeland Security and transportation to establish a joint task force including airports, airlines and aviation workers, Public Health experts, Security Experts and more to provide the emergency and longterm plans we need for the future of air travel. So mr. Hauptli, do you agree that we need an Expert Task Force to help and secure the health and safety of the flying public . Mr. Hauptli senator, thank you for the question and thank you for summarizing the challenges facing the industry Going Forward. Mr. Calio and i speak regularly along with f. A. A. Administrator, the t. S. A. Administrator, airports, airlines, collectively, we are already doing that, but we do believe there are inconsistent federal guidance is necessary. And so your legislation putting together a task force would in my mind, sort of codify what we are already doing at this point, so we would be supportive of that effort. We need c. D. C. , h. H. S. , d. H. S. , d. H. S. , t. S. A. , d. O. T. , f. A. A. T. S. A. , d. O. T. , f. A. A. Working together. Unprecedented challenges for the industry and we need to Work Together to solve the problem. Senator do it as quickly as possible to make sure that it is formalized and report it back. To congress. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator wicker senator fisher. You, mr. Chairman. I would like to know what airlines are doing to meet their contractual obligations. I heard contractors that those who provide Ground Handling services they are demanding reduced payments on current contracts. However, on april 30, the treasury reported that it began disbursing funding to airs. Airlines have yet to give relief to contractors. And thats another issue. So on one hand, we have airlines and theyre beginning to receive their cares act funding, and on the other, they are requesting concessions from contractors and while i understand airlines are in a difficult place financially through no fault of their own, so are those that they have contracts with. Will airlines maintain their contractual obligations such as those with Ground Handling Service Providers . Mr. Calio senator, im going to have to get back to you on that because thats a problem i have not heard of. Our carriers maintain their contractual obligations. I have heard nothing about this. Senator we will definitely give you information on that probably before you get out the door today. Thank you very much. Mr. Hauptli, f. A. A. Programs such as entitlement funding in the Airport Improvement Program is based on previous levels of enplanements at airports. However, as you noted for the Lincoln Airport in nebraska, deplainment in airports is down down by 95 . What do you expect the f. A. A. Grant programs will be at this years enplanements are used to calculate aip funding the next couple of years . Senator, thank you for the question. It goes right to the heart what we were talking about in terms of the need of flexibility Going Forward because youre exactly correct. If we use this use as a baseline, everything blows up. We cant do that. So were going to need flexibility. The f. A. A. Has been great so far in administratively being flexible. If necessary, we may need legislative assistance in that regard. Thank you. And as you probably know, im also a strong supporter of the essential air Service Program. It provides a vital connection to seven of our communities in the state of nebraska. What kind of challenges do you think that the small airports such as those in the essential air Service Program are going to face in retaining their commercial air service during and also after the pandemic . Weve seen some really optimistic improvements in the essential air service that we have in the state of nebraska. We have good partners in those programs and i would hate to see us go backwards in these really worthwhile programs that are so important in a state that has the vastness like mine. Senator, we agree completely with you. Youve been a strong supporter of the essential air Service Program. Its been a vital link to ensure that all americans have access to the air Aviation System. So thats something were watching very closely, very important issue, and well need to be very careful and cognizant as we move forward and travel returns that everyone has access to the system. You know we want to make sure we can continue to keep that commercial air service that we have. We have good partners and we would really hate to lose them. So, i appreciate your help in addressing that. And mr. Calio, to what extent are the airlines for americas members going to continue service to smaller communities after the cares act minimum requirements are gone, particularly for communities that are seeing an increasing number of enplanements prior to the pandemic . Mr. Calio senator, that is a question i cant answer. Thats a question for my members to answer. They make those decisions on their own and something that we dont get involved on. Senator thank you very much. Nice to see you again. We have some interaction when you were secretary of the army. So, nice to see you, sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator wicker thank you, senator fischer. I am told that dr. Godwin has had some problems with connectivity. Are you back in touch with us, dr. Godwin . Yes. Senator wicker ok, and also for those in the audience, there are two members of this committee who are having problems getting connected remotely and we continue to work with them. But for now, let me just ask, dr. Godwin, does it surprise you that secretary fanning says almost all of the Airline Aircraft already have filters . Have hepa filters . That does surprise me based on what i have read although i would hope he would be better informed than i would be given his position. Senator wicker that would be good news. Im sorry, what . Senator wicker i think we would agree that would be good news and be a step farther along with your proposal. Absolutely. Im just making sure that those remaining planes would be covered. Senator wicker let me just ask you, if i am on a plane, sitting three abreast, and we all have a face mask, a proper face mask, to what extent am i at a greater risk . Are you able to quantify that, doctor . We it really depends upon the type of face mask that you are wearing. So, as youre probably aware, we have three different kinds of face coverings that we routinely see. The most protective is the n95 mask, which is currently reserved for individuals who are at high risk for exposure and our medical professionals. The next category would be the surgical masks that youve seen, those disposable masks. Senator wicker well, i have a mask that most senators are wearing. How much protection is going to give the folks next to me . Yeah, its giving them more protection than they would have if you were not wearing anything. Its giving you a little bit of protection, but its not providing either you or them a huge amount of protection the way that we would see with the n95 mask protecting the user to a very large extent. So, its better than nothing and we want you to continue wearing them, particularly in circumstances where you cant have social distancing. But if youre talking about a situation where people are sitting for long periods of time in close proximity to each other mask, while good and we want you to wear it, it does not give you absolute protection from the people. Senator wicker and if im wearing gloves, that helps a lot, too . So, gloves are helpful if you are working in the screening areas, where they would be touching a lot of objects that a large number of people had touched. And wo were trying to protect them, but being able to [indiscernible] they are less helpful in general for respiratory pathogens because the main method of a main mechanism of transmission is through droplets. And so thats aerosol. And so theyre not quite as helpful as having a mask would be. And definitely not as helpful as setting further apart from each other and keeping that social distancing. Senator wicker and doctor, senators and house members are working today, for the most part, in a hot zone, washington , d. C. That being the case, and then we fan out on thursday afternoon and friday mornings and go back to our consistencies. Constituencies. That being the case, from a Public Health standpoint not from personal safety standpoint, would you recommend that senators and representatives be tested here in washington so that we can know who, which of us ought to be isolated and not return home and spread this around 50 states . So unfortunately, the testing doesnt tell us whether or not youve been exposed and are incubating the virus but have not yet built up high enough levels in order test positive or exhibit symptoms. So, you could test negative today if we tested you, but still end up developing covid19 a couple of days from now due to an exposure that happened today or yesterday. So, just doing a single test is nt enough. [indiscernible] close proximity and contact with individuals and then asking them to selfquarantine, to selfisolate and to monitor their symptoms. Thats part of the Contact Tracing approach. It would be fabulous if we could have a test that would tell you that you have been exposed, but that actually is not the way most of our things work. Most of them require that you have not only been exposed, but also built up an of of the pathogen in your system to be able to detect it. Senator wicker thank you, thats very helpful. And senator rosen now joins us remotely. [inaudible] senator wicker youre good. You look great. Thank you. First time on this one in the office. Thank you, chairman wicker and member cantwell for holding this hearing, and the witnesses for being here. This is trying times for all of us in so many ways. But i want to talk about the Economic Impact of the pandemic on our airports and tourists. Our economy depends on tourists, from restaurants to casinos and Outdoor Recreation business like lake tahoe, everywhere in between. The economic shutdown by the coronavirus has been devastating to us, few places no more evident to us than the nevada airport. In 2019, las vegas airport saw over 50 million passengers, generated 35 billion in economic output, supporting a quarter of a million jobs, and was responsible for 18 of our areas gross domestic product. But in the wake of the pandemic, passenger totals have dropped. At the renotahoe airport, travel has been done 96 in the last several weeks. As travel slows down means job losses not only at our hotels and Convention Halls and airports and places we dont think because of the numerous Small Business retailers at the and the restaurants that operate inside our airports. What other additional hidden costs this pandemic to airports might we be unaware of, and what we do to address these challenges and when it is fully safe to travel again, how can we work to instill confidence in the American People that they can come back to las vegas or reno for a vacation or business and how can Congress Help you and help everyone do this . Senator rosen, thank you very much for the question. Youre right, your state relies on tourism and everybody coming in to your state. In fact, well be having our annual conference in 2021 in las vegas, so were very anxious to get this fixed and ready to go next spring when well be enjoying you in las vegas. The las vegas director said they are going to be down 50 at minimum in terms of their lost revenue. You point out that reno, tahoe is down 96 in traffic. Its a major, major issue for not only the airports in your state, but the airports all around the country. The two airport organizations, mr. Calios organization, and an array of travel and hotel groups have all gotten together under the umbrella of u. S. Travel and put out some guidance that will be very useful for people, passengers, people visiting hotels, as we reopen the economy to provide comfort for folks that it is safe to travel and safe to stay in hotels and safe to go to conventions and conferences Going Forward. So youve identified a very, very serious issue and problem and big part of the economic engine that the country needs and certainly your state needs is aviation. And more broadly to everyone, if you could answer, what can we do to help you meet these challengeses especially the Small Businesses that are at our airports . Senator, i would say, in a sense, youve already started that process by passing the cares act and providing oversight and continue to do that and monitor realtime problems to make sure that the solutions are going to work and not be ineffective because they are not backed by data and science. A better way to say it is everybody working together to try to get to a solution on this and i have to tell you, senator, that one of the first victims of this pandemic was my yearly trip to las vegas with all of my High School Friends that weve been doing for 25 years. Senator ill welcome you back as soon as we can. Mr. Calio looking forward to it. Center, back to my earlier comment. Weve asked in our testimony for not only an additional 10 billion or more for airports in the next round of assistance, but also billions of dollars for general aviation, Business Aviation, and very importantly, to your question, to the concessions that are operating at airports. That whole aviation ecosystem is intertwined and there are concessions are hurt very badly and disloathed by this crisis as well. Senator wicker thank you, senator rosen. Senator sinema is now joining us by voice only. Weve had some trouble with that connection, but are you able to hear us . Senator sinema i think i can. Can you hear me . Senator booker we can hear you. Wicker we can hear you. You are recognized. Senator thank you for holding this. This is an opportunity to discuss what congress can do to protect highly skilled Aviation Industry jobs while protecting the health of passengers, employees and the american public. We have seen a substantial decline in air travel as people across the world have stayed at home. It is essential to not spread the virus but it also creates significant economic challenges for the aviation and Aerospace Industries. Senator cruz and i held a hearing examining the role of global of afeyage. Now is an appropriate to examine an issue as we now have the dual challenge of keeping our Aviation System intact while protecting the health and jobs of employees. In order to bend the curve of the virus and preventing a second wave, we need Contact Tracing systems in place and work force that is protected from the virus. Im grateful for todays witnesses and look forward to working us to keep americans employed and travelers safe. My first question is for mr. Calio. Contact tracing when properly established can mitigate the spread of coronavirus and similarly Communicable Diseases. Local governments and states are setting up their programs now and im working with senator cruz, stakeholders, and other members of congress on the solution for International Travel to the u. S. This governmentimplemented system would allow information to be collected from travelers and would be for collection of data. Our legislation would also ensure that all persons entering the u. S. Are held to the same standard during an emergency. Are there any issues, air carriers, and encounter when they attempt to do Contact Tracing and the way data is shared with the government . And can you provide a few examples . Mr. Calio yes, senator, i can, and i would like to thank you and senator cruz for everything you have been doing on Contact Tracing. It is a significant issue and something we need to happened will Going Forward, not just in aviation but across the board to try and control the disease. Currently, as you know, and much of the Data Requests cannot be verified by us. In some cases, it can, and many cases it cannot because we dont sell of our own tickets. Theres Global Distribution systems, theres travel agents, and theres also other airlines where we have connecting passengers. We cant validate the email address. We usually get anything near the address, the phone numbers, or the physical address. We think this is a government function. Its one that can be easily handled. It needs to be required and it would work more quickly and better if the government were to do it. As you know, because i think you ve seen the demonstration, the mobile app and website as mentioned earlier and we are happy to give this to the government. I dont think its all that complicated. But Something Like this, our technology can be stood up even accounting for privacy concerns and it would be better if we had that information but the Government Agencies had it themselves rather than through an intermediary. I appreciate that. And we agree. Thank you. So my next question, mr. Fanning, in recent years, arizona has been a leader in manufacturing, which is created jobs. This includes large and small manufacturers. We develop aircraft, spacecraft, and Maintenance Repair and overhaul capabilities. What impact is that coronavirus having in arizona, and what can congress do to keep these jobs afloat during these difficult times . Well, i think youve done an enormous amount of help. The initial focus was on the quit of the in trying to keep money flowing through the supply chain and keep it working. Now, as we see how serious this is, even more so certain weeks ago, our focus is trying to maintain the workforce and what programs we can come up with together to get us over what is really at longer period of time then we initially imagined. So we are exploring that private Public Partnership concept where both sides are putting money in workintain the at risk force so it is there when business picks up again. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. Thank you. Senator cantwell. Senator cantwell thank you for getting the system set up so our committee and other committees in the senate could participate. This has been a great experience and great work by the people who are working the audio and video. So think thank them for all of that. I wanted to go back to mr. Fanning and i started my opening round of my questioning about the supply chain and losing a work force that is hard to replace. One of the things that has come up in the implementation is the definition of National Security has limited the application. I think for all of us who have been thinking about these issues for some time, we think of lots of things as part of National Security. We didnt specifically mean you actually are producing x number of products as a defense contract. In general, we think that airlines and having an Airline Sector is part of National Security. So, what do we need to fix that element of the language or what do we have to do to clarify because we were clear . There were a number of issues that probably precluded companies from accessing that money. The rule came out late on that and companies were given a week to comply. What you highlighted, it was very definition of National Security. Limited it severely and left out companies that anybody would argue are doing National Security work. But d. O. D. And treasury are working on that now and refining that definition. We will make progress on that and make funds vailable to a larger pool. If you are part of the supply chain for commercial aviation, should that be part of the ational i think so. The supply chain is shared and a lot of Companies Want a foot on both sides as a risk mitigator and thats important and great, but we are worried about the impact on the commercial side. And National Security side. I dont think you should require a Company Giving 100 National Security to be part of the industrial ase. What do you think about the health care and support health care of laidoff Aerospace Manufacturing workers in this time period . I do. First and foremost not losing the work force for all the reasons you mentioned in your question. When it comes to that Many Companies are extending benefits given extended periods for the benefits but we would look for some help to help those people who no longer have their jobs as a result of this pandemic. The market is contracting and looking for ways to ride through that but its going to be a difficult journey. Can you explain that a little bit more. Of course we want to go back to aerospace, but if you lose your job in Aerospace Manufacturing now and you have one im sorry, you have one month of health care from your mployer under the system and you could yourself purchase another year or i think its 12 months of that. But do you have the 2,000 or whatever the benefit is to purchase that . If you dont, you are not going to hang around and wait for the Aerospace Job to come back. Any way, i want to emphasize how critical is if we want to retain these workers and retain them to help us again in aerospace which is a very competitive environment, we need to do something about health care. Absolutely. These are highly soughtafter workers and if we cant keep them employed, others will want to come after them obviously. They are highly skilled and trained and other industries that might ramp up faster would be attractive. On the defense side of our industry, some of the companies are hiring through this. There are places out there that are hiring and we want to make sure we retain that work force because this industry is an important economic driver. It is leveraged in terms of Economic Activity that it enagendaers but is an important part of our global competitiveness. Dr. Godwin, would you give us your response about the temperature issue. I went to china maybe 10 years ago after h1n1 and was tested before i could be let not the country. Where do you think Temperature Check plays into the equation of aviation even if its on the International Arrival side . Coming back to this concept, we want to have a budget reinforcement thats not like one thing is going to be key to protecting people and the Temperature Checks are a way to identify those people who are really active cases of either covid19 or some other infectious disease. So its a great way to identify probably some really high risk people. What weve seen with this disease though is that not everyone runs a temperature, and there are people who are asifment matic who are still so its one piece of the puzzle but perhaps not it should only be one part but its not a quick fix. I would also like to say really basey things like hand washing are super effective. So we want to make sure that were providing people with opportunities to keep themselves safe as well. Thank you mr. Chairman. To this last point about what is it going to take to get the public going again i would say its listening to the health care officials. When they say if these standards are here and what will make us safe thats where we need to start. Thank you very much. Enator blum that will. I want the to thank the Witnesses Today and apologize if im covering ground that may have been asked by other members of the committee. Senator marky and i sent a letter to the United States department of transportation and the department of health and Human Services urging those agencies to immediately issue a rule requiring face masks for all individuals whether in airports or on airplanes, a ndate that would in effect adopt the c. D. C. Guidelines. I would like to ask maybe this s a question for you what your view on that kind of mandate would be. I know that some airlines are doing it voluntarily but it certainly is not a uniform mandate in all airports or all irlines. Senator thanks for the question. It appears there is growing consensus about masks. I read just today that t. S. A. Is contemplating requiring passengers to, when they present themselves at screening, to wear a face mask. It would be my belief that airport workers and people passing through airports would be wearing face maskses for the foreseeable future. The last category is the most numerous. People passing through. You can control t. S. A. , you can control airport employees. But without some mandates its going to be voluntary. So would you be in favor i recognize theres a growing consensus. Shouldnt there be some federal mandate . What weve said senator is there needs to be the very groups that youve identified c. D. C. And others h. H. S. Working together to come up with federal guidelines to make sure we have a consistent approach throughout the travel experience no matter which airline or which airport you travel through. Its something that needs to be seriously considered. You know, we are requiring it now. We have from our gate agents to other customerfacing employees you have to wear a face mask. Were requiring it of our customers. Theres a lot of questions that arise from that and when you have a situation where someone gets to the airport, goes through security without a mask and then gets to the gate and has to put a mask on it begs the question. I would think your requirement would be strengthened if whoever was at the gate could say its the law. Rsh the letter i put into the cord earlier referred to the lack of uniform and proper cleaning and disinfected practices on flight decks and aircraft. I know you probably havent had a chance to look at the letter but i assume youre familiar with the substance of it. Could you respond to it . Yes, sir. Weve received a letter ourselves previously. Some while back we asked the Airline Pilots association for examples so we could follow up, because whenever we get complaints like that theyre usually handled locally but we always look for trends. Weve been unable to find a trend. Were doing everything we can in our pock pitt to keep it clean cockpit. Weve enhanced cleaning procedures. So i guess we dont agree with the claims and we asked the second time probably now three or four times for examples that we can trace down. Were also doing Contact Tracing now with our crews. So i guess the bottom line we just dont agree with the claims. Well, i would like whatever followup there may be in so far as you may make further findings to be made available. Im going to have some more questions for the record if thats ok. I just want to make one last comment. When i referred earlier to possibly additional funds that are necessary for the Airline Industry, i was reacting to some extent to mr. Hoplys point about more resources being necessary to restore this industry. It may not be direct bailout ney of the kind that the cares act or covid 3 provided but i assume you would not disagree that additional be al commitments may necessary. You seemed to indicate that they would be necessary. Senator absolutely. The money that was provided to the Airport Community is greatly appreciated and is an important first step that is nowhere near what airports need Business Aviation general aviation the concession yares need Going Forward. There are hundreds of millions and billions of dollars in gaps. And im not raising that point to say i question your judgment but seems pretty unequivocal about not needing any more money for the airlines and i would just make the point that it is an industry. Airlines are no good without airports and without the rest of the industry thats necessary to make them fly stuck sessfully. To i think there is an overall Consumer Trust issue here that needs to be addressed. I think were all hoping for a successful Airline Industry and i just want to again thank you for being here and thank you r. Chairman. I count 14 senators that were able to participate today. Weve had a good hearing and im getting a little feedback here. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks during this time senators are asked to submit any questions for the record. Upon receipt the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers to the committee as soon as possible. So i thank the witnesses for appearing today and i thank each member and this hearing is now adjourned. Monday the Supreme Court continues hearing oral argument ia telephone conference. The Supreme Court live monday on cspan, on demand on cspan. Org, or listen on the free cspan radio app. Immediately following the life Supreme Court session join Jeffery Rosen of the National Constitution center leading a live discussion with scholars. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi held ceremonial swearing in. Following the swearing in representative spoke with the maryland delegation then answered questions about his legislative priorities and the pandemic h