Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On Mortgage Relief During The Coronavirus Pandemic 20240712

I would like to call the meeting to order at this time and i would like to come if i may give just a brief overview of what you can expect. There will be an Opening Statement of the chair. An Opening Statement of the Ranking Member. And Opening Statement from chairwoman waters. Introduced andbe will give their Opening Statement. And then there will be q a. The title of todays hearing is protecting homeowners during the pandemic. Oversight of Mortgage Services. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at anytime. Also members of the committee who are not members of this Sub Committee may participate in todays hearing the purposes of making an Opening Statement and asking questions of witnesses. Members are reminded to keep their video function on at all times even when they are not recognized by the chair. Embers are also reminded that they are responsible for muting and unyielding themselves. This is Something Worthy of repeating because i have made them mistake of not honoring this responsibility. Members are also reminded that they are responsible for muting and an muting themselves. And to mute themselves after they have finished speaking. Consistent with the regulations 965 staff wills only when they have not been recognized and to avoid inadvertent background noise. Numbers are reminded that all house rules related to order and a corm apply to this remote hearing. The chair now recognizes himself for four minutes for an Opening Statement. Let me start by thanking the chairwoman of the full committee. It is always an honor to serve under your leadership. I would like to thank the Ranking Member for the participation he has brought to this meeting. I would also like to thank the staff for the hard work you have done in obtaining some 4000 pages of documents. Would include policies, procedures, data on the largest tale of services. And their findings which include the fact that over 2 million forbearance request to have been approved by this by these 11 servicers. We have also found some other things that are causing some consternation. Often, servicers fail to provide bar worse with the 180 day caresance sets in the act. And too often, borrowers were given but 90 days. I have some evidence of this failure to comply that i shall share with you. This evidence is something that emanates from a request by a constituent. One of my constituents has brought to the attention of our office this document that is entitled, temporary hardship forbearance agreement. I will not go through its entirety but the important points are these. That this bar were borrow were faced a hardship and had payments deferred for three of the payments that are due. Three payments. And the amount due is going to be in the final analysis at the end of the deferment parry owed, the amount due for all payments within that deferment parry owed in any late fees that may have accrued from other sources of payments not being made timely. The point is this as it reads on the document. The amount due on the next payment due date which was three months away from the date that the deferment period started includes the amount of payment being deferred under the plan. This is 90 days of deferment. Not the anticipated 180 days that the cares act. Many of the bar worse are not made aware of this and we find pursuant to some of the testimony you will here today rsat many of these borrowe who were accorded the 90 day of color. Ur borrowers it seems that this like many things is having a disproportionate impact on persons of color which causes me a great deal of consternation i would add. This program we established in congress has been received by are charged who with according these forbearance agreements, these servicers come it has been received by them as an honor system. We never intended for this to be an honor system that would allow them to decide whether or not they would accord persons the 180 days initially with the opportunity to extend for an additional 180 days. It was my intent that thee borrowers would have the 180 days. The remedy seems to be a lawsuit. A lawyer had to take this to court. Timeo have some period of that would go beyond the forbearance. I am very much concerned about this and my hope is that we can a deal by which we can do with this honor system and bring it under the auspices of a situation such as they will have to comply versus choosing whether or not they will comply. With this having been said, it is now my honor to recognize the Ranking Member of the self committee for a fiveminute Opening Statement. Coming you areer now recognized for your fiveminute Opening Statement. Thank you, chairman green. Good to see you and all of the colleagues and witnesses, thank you again for joining us virtually. The coronavirus pandemic and the associated Government Shutdown of the economy disrupted the lives and livelihoods of citizens across the country. Businesses shut down and unemployment skyrocketed. Workers faced uncertain prospects for longterm stability and families were at risk of losing their homes. As you know, Congress Passed and the president signed into law the cares act which helped individuals and Small Businesses and created forbearance options for struggling homeowners. At the peak of approximately 4. 7 million families were in forbearance. Many more families undoubtedly wouldve lost their homes if not for the swift and decisive response from congress and the administration. The implementation of the Paycheck Protection Program come Economic Impact payments, the Federal Reserve lending facilities which opened credit markets and other assistance programs under the cares act made it easier for homeowners to pay their mortgages, families to stay in their homes and Small Businesses to build a bridge to the other side of the crisis. Fortunately, we have seen the number of mortgages in forbearance decrease since the peak declining a full 13 since may however, we are not out of the woods yet. Millions ofill homeowners facing hardship requiring additional assistance. I hope to learn what may be helpful next steps as congress contemplates additional legislation. The farreaching aid was a collaborative effort between congress, the administration, regulators, and the private sector. While the cares act mandates that servicers of federally backed mortgages offer borrowerse options to that same requirement is not in place for others. Despite the absence of this mandate however, servicers of these nonfederally backed loans stepped up during this crisis and offered similar forbearance rowers. Or their bor this shows that in times of crisis the government and the private sector can act together. And that the private sector operated responsibly. Unfortunately, my colleagues on the other side of the iowa believe a topdown mandate on all servicers would be more effective. The partisan heroes act included ed mandate for automatic forbearance for all borrowers struggling to pay their mortgages. Not only does this mandate seem unnecessary but it actually has the potential to further disadvantage borrowers by limiting their options. On may 4, chairwoman waters and chairman green sent letters to some of the largest mortgage servicers requesting information following the passage of the cares act. The implication of the letter was that mortgage servicers skirted their responsibilities under the cares act or somehow profited by steering their customers into forbearance. The data the majority received in response to that letter took told a very different story servicers areed working well with bar worse in times of their greatest need. This is a hearing in search of a problem. That is not to say that there were not some hiccups along the way. There were understandable growing pains and bumps on the road as servicers staffed up call centers and implemented websites. However, given the scope and scale of the forbearance request , thehe short timeframe servicers overall should be commended on their treatment of bar worse in a time of crisis. And i think that creditors, the mortgage creditors and servicers have learned from experience that the expense of foreclosure and repossessing these properties is not in anyones best interest. Keeping homeowners and their homes is in the best interest of thosevolved particularly struggling americans that need help. I look forward to exploring how servicers can support their customers, and what additional actions might be required by congress in potential areas of improvement and again i thank all of you for being here today and i thank chairman green again and chairwoman waters for holding this hearing. You are still on mute, madam chair. All right. You can hear me now. Thank you. Mr. Chairman . I am so appreciative for you holding this hearing this morning. As i took my seat, i heard you read something where there appears to be a demand from an was a demandhat for what would be considered months that of the must have been missed. Is that true, mr. Chairman . May i be sure to have the correct information . I guess the chairman is not hearing me. Am i a needed . I unmuted . Chairman green i am an unmuted now. I wanted to make sure that i heard to you saying that someone had been demanded to pay the full amount of the miss payment mispayment. I wanted to make sure that i had the information correct. And members, this is what we want to avoid. , thee to thank mr. Barr experience we had starting in 2004 with the foreclosures that all of whatwith caused us to experience this disaster because of these unprecedented foreclosures lead us to understand what we must do to avoid homeowners losing their homes. Upnderstand that my time is but mr. Chairman, i want to thank you for the hearing and i am absolutely committed to the proposition that this will not happen. That we are going to have a credible forbearance situation where for our homeowners which will cause them not to lose their time their home. Yields back. Oman at this time, i would like to introduce our witnesses and thank them for coming. We have with us today italys colin, the staff attorney. Griffin, founder and president of humphrey usa. President ofams, the National Associate of Real Estate Brokers. And ed dimarco. Welcome again and thank you for being with us virtually. The witnesses will be recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation if you would. A chime will go off at the end of your time and i would ask that you respect the members and other witnesses time by wrapping up your oral testimony. Without objection, their written statement will be made a part of the record. Once they finished their testimony, each member will have five minutes to ask their questions. Your now, ms. Cohen recognized for your Opening Statement. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I testify on behalf of of the loan in compliance of the National Consumer law center as 20 other Legal Services and double rights organizations. The unprecedented coronavirus pandemic has brought an illness that unemployment two people across the country. Have beens of color especially hardhit. Preexisting inequalities are exacerbated by the current latin and black and homeownership is in peril. Harmtigate some of the brought by the pandemic, Congress Must continue to be vigilant to protect homeowners come improved transparency come increase its efforts to regulate and reform the Mortgage Servicing industry and center relief. The federal regulators must act prevent avoidable foreclosures and to promote sustainable homeownership. Congress must pursue dedicated efforts to protect and expand black and left neck homeownership and pass additional measures including collection of and lost mitigation data with free public reporting. Hr 6835 is a good start on this. Actnsion of cares protections must include standardized forbearance of all mortgages come automatic or parents for borrowers that if missed two payments are more come affordable repayment options for borrowers and committing forbearance plans or seeking to resolve the link with sees the link would cease. Delinquencies. E a moratorium on negative credit rating. Services,r legal counseling, and cash assistance for delinquent borrowers. And measures to prevent neighborhood flight. Moreover, federal regulators must increase oversight and ensure mortgage assistance reaches the need of diverse homeowners. And consider future reforms in the Mortgage Servicing industry. Commend the regulatory extensions of the foreclosure moratoria. And the expansion of post forbearance options and more is needed. Latinx homeowners are more likely. While all homeowners are more likely to report missing payments rather than deferring payments with their servicer, in the Census Bureau survey, four times as many black homeowners reported missing payments as reported deferring payments. Among hispanic and latino timesners, they were two as many homeowners reporting they had missed payments as compared to deferring. Only one plate four times as many white homeowners reported missing. How can we help homeowners who have not yet received assistance . And what can we do for the disproportionately large group of bar worse of color . We should not lose sight of the fact that many that for many borrowers, this industry remains broken. This depends on our ability to have servicers that perform servicing well. Our nation is facing unprecedented challenges that tosent us with a real chance look at our priorities and assumptions and make material progress in how we measure success and inclusion. Thank you. Chairman green thank you for your testimony. Ms. Griffin your now recognized for your Opening Statement. Ms. Griffin thank you very much. M president of the resident and founder of home usa. Appreciate this opportunity to appear before you to provide firsthand insight surrounding the plight of homeowners in this pandemic. Allow me to emphasize the importance of housing counseling organizations which i like to call nonprofit homeownership providers. Our mission we were created to provide everyday people with the tools they need to achieve and sustain their housing and homeownership goals. We help renters become sustainable homeowners and help existing homeowners avoid foreclosure. We are like marriage counselors. Unansweredowner has questions, needs credit help, or doesnt understand the service or jargon, we bring them together with lenders to ensure that everyone is on the same page with the goal of finding a mortgage solution that works for both parties. According to the u. S. Joint economic committee, the average foreclosure costs everyone 77,900. Lenders lose an average of 12 19 of the homes value in foreclosure and they spend about 50,000 in the process. If counselors are able to prevent foreclosure, the value to lenders, investors, and the country is an normas. What we see in the market today . Homeowners that are exhausted, paralyzed by fear and have lost their jobs. Everyone is concerned they will lose their home. At home usawork with my colleagues at the National Housing Resource Center , we do believe that servicers have improved since the start of the pandemic but many still need better trained customer facing employees. Some Call Center Employees read script they are not familiar with and dont have time to answer questions and are not familiar enough with the processor procedures to assist consumers. Of set counselors homeowners who are improperly denied a forbearance. We have seen a troubling concentration of this issue with veteran loans. We are also seeing homeowners who have made who have recently completed a home application who have also been that justborrowers missed a payment in march or february 2 have also been denied. We help homeowners who have requested a forbearance but still have questions about whether it is been approved and how to plan ahead for repayment. There is a frustratingly large number of homeowners who are unemployed but are still being are that Lump Sum Payments due at the end of the forbearance. Other occurring issues are highlighted in my written testimony. Whether right or wrong, too many of our clients are unfamiliar with the terms and the servicers scripts which only compounds the existing sense of mistrust and fear of the banking industry. People of color are particularly vulnerable to this lack of trust. As a result of their most experience most recent experience in the housing crisis. People of color relied heavily on organizations like home usa. Servicers do not have the capacity to handle individualized support for homeowners. It is essential that housing counselors are supported so that we do not have to turn away a single consumer. Thus freeing up services because we can handle the most challenging cases. Fpb and we feel that c hud should be more solution focused. We feel the federal agencies should coordinate and identify Realtime Solutions and actively update policies and procedures. Loss, we need extreme mitigation loans procedure like we had earlier. The biggest problem we have will be homeowners who returned to work that has significantly reduced incomes. There will be a need for aggressive and affordable Loan Modifications. Housing counselors are capable of helping homeowners and servicers through these complicating processes. Is needed. Ch Consumer Awareness of options and processes need to be better distributed. I very much appreciate this opportunity to illuminate our concerns about covid related Mortgage Servicing. The importance of intervention and a sound the alarm that the worst is yet to come. Counseling organizations can play a huge role. Chairman green you have exceeded your time. Thank you for your testimony. Ms. Williams is now recognized for fivemile for five minutes mr. Williams is now recognized for five minutes of an Opening Statement. Williams i apologize. Chairman green that is quite a rate. Mr. Williams chairman green, Ranking Member bar, chairwoman waters and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today and to discuss the importance of protecting homeowners. I also want to thank chairwoman Maxine Waters for calling this hearing. Thervice a president for National Association of Real Estate Brokers come the countrys oldest and largest black real estate association. Our mission is democracy and housing has guided our efforts to ensure fair housing practices in neighborhoods across the country. Especially in communities of color. I am also the owner of destiny firmy, a brokerage headquartered in moorestown, new jersey. Covid19 is disproportionately affecting black homeowners. It is well documented that has had apidemic crushing and devastating effect on black homeowners causing mass unemployment putting a deep economic strain on black borrowers who have worked hard to achieve the American Dream of homeownership. As of mid june, 2020, 20 4 of lack homeowners reported some difficulty making their mortgage payments. Compared to white homeowners. There is a 13 gap between black homeowners and white homeowners receiving forbearance. Under section 4022 of the cares act. It allows borrowers to apply for a forbearance period of up to 360 days. Solution. Therder to address challenges facing black homeowners as a result of the pandemic, it is imperative that Congress Takes action to ensure the congressional and governmental efforts to to maintain homeownership are equitable and include black homeowners. We urge congress to take the following actions allocate specific funds targeted to the black homeownership. Provide assistance for mortgage borrowers not covered by the cares act, private mortgage lenders must be required to offer government supported forbearance to their borrowers comparable to the treatment of government supported Mortgage Loans. Number three, require fha and all servicers to notify in all communications including mail, electronic communication and phone calls of their rights to apply for forbearance. Require all servicers to have dedicated tollfree lines staffed with representatives who are knowledgeable about forbearance procedures. Number four, create a largescale Public Awareness initiative. The federal government is allocating resources for building Public Awareness around the Health Risks Associated with covid19 and similar efforts shall be made to inform borrowers of their right. Ensure fha, borrowers continue to have the same access to mortgage forbearance protections, financial relief, and assistance. In conclusion, our members who are known as realtors, since its inception has stood for democracy in. We will continue to advocate for the preservation and sustainability of Home Ownership for black americans and all americans. Ofare the trusted advisors our community and the conscience of the real estate industry. Congress to a line with the declaration of a cease and desist on the decline of black homeownership. Thank you for the opportunity to testify for the committee before the committee today. Chairman green thank you for your testimony, mr. Williams. Mr. Demarco, you are now recognized. thank you for inviting me to testify on how mortgage servicers are responding to the challenges facing homeowners as of the novel coronavirus. Many homeowners are in deep economic distress resulting indirectly or directly from the pandemic. Health and economic costs have disproportionately affected communities of color and lower income households. From the outset of this emergency, Housing Policy Council members and other mortgage servicers has been committed to keeping individual are words and their homes. Fouritten statement covers topics which i will briefly summarize here. Facingthe challenges home understood a are not the result of poor underwriting standards or inappropriate business practices. The pandemic is a National Health crisis and steps taken to combat it have had and normas Enormous Economic consequences. In response, we have shifted virtually all of our operations to our own homes. They have trained their staffs remotely and modified technology rmous inflow ofno inquiries. They have set up online tools for borrowers to educate themselves. They began offering forbearance options before the passage of the cares act. And they have extended forbearance to homeowners that do not have federally backed mortgages. They have executed against evolving series of programs. Just two months into the cares millionhad 4. 8 households on a forbearance plan. That has declined 13 since then. Of 8 of, 12. 3 fha were in for barons. Gop loans were in for barons. They were required to offer forbearance to a customer that asked for it claiming a covid19 hardship and yet the nonfederally backed mortgages, were also inloans forbearance including Bank Portfolio loans and loans with private label. Others have also invested without responded without a federal direct if. Directive. I would like to acknowledge the partnerships and information sharing that has marked the last four months. Not only has the industry been trying to Work Together, we have been joined in partnerships with numerous other organizations and stakeholders as well as numerous Government Agencies. Aese partnerships demonstrate level of common concern for the families whose financial situations have been disrupted by this National Health emergency. I believe it is because of this communication and coordination that relief has been provided to so many so quickly. Transitioning from forbearance to a longerterm solution requires dedicated effort from the bar were and servicer to ensure the best resolution. The sooner a word starts repaying their mortgage, the sooner they can access opportunities. When a bar were is ready to resume monthly payments, bar were contact with their servicer is critical. Orrower contact with their servicer is critical. Generally, the options include a shortterm repayment plan, repayment at the end of the loan bym or longerterm repayment adding the outstanding payments into the loan balance and modifying the loan. Congress has already taken the cornerstone action to assist borrowers and servicers. It recognizes that the pandemic has affect did many servicers and affected many servicers and communities. We support additional measures by the congress to provide fiscal stimulus for hardhit consumers and communities. Thank you for inviting me to participate today. Thank you for your testimony, mr. Demarco. I now recognize the gentlewoman from california for five minutes for questions. Chairwoman waters thank you, mr. Chairman green. Thank you to our witnesses. Counseling and helping our homeowners and i am very pleased that they are all here this morning. Here is what i would like to do. Would like to find out and i will ask each of the witnesses in the time that i have whether or not the language in the heroes act is doing exactly what we need it to do. Thenow that we provided right to request and receive forbearance for our homeowners on their mortgage payments with an option to extend an additional six months. I think there was some information shared on that. Sure thatke to make they get this information. I would also like to know should there be additional language about loan modification [indiscernible] me ask each of our witnesses [indiscernible] counseling organizations definitely support the heroes act. Made great progress and it also really helps to rein in some of the issues we are seeing with private nonfederal loans. We are very appreciative of the ,uggestion of support supplemental support for housing counseling. It is very much needed. Repayments and s is good. E and we should continue. We have spoken about our views on the heroes act also in our written testimony. Chairwoman waters [indiscernible] do you think we need Additional Information . Question,ou for your chairwoman waters and for being at the hearing today. Your question sounds like it is focusing on people needing more than one year of forbearance. The heroes act has a lot of excellent provisions and we hope to see the senate take up Something Like that come look at those issues and find a way to get something done. With regard to your specific question, as you heard dr. Dimarco say, people need to transition from forbearance to repayment. To see isuld like legislation and programming to help people get into repayment. There is a financial situation in the country and if it goes on, we may need to reevaluate that. What we would like to see in Senate Legislation is more affordable post forbearance repayment options that are mandatory. Chairwoman waters very good. Talking about the same thing after the forbearance period. I appreciate your work so much. You have given us some advice and you have pointed out a few things that you think we can do additionally. What stands out most in your mind that we should do to make forbearance and loan modification process works . I they need to have information of the borrowers rights out to the community. That can be done by mail. Through email. We also need to have data collection. The servicers need to supply the data. A bar were in irvington, new jersey and shipher in morris town saying they were only given three months and the whole balance would be due in 90 days. Do you thinkters we can have stability for servicers . I do believe so because they are road blocking so we do not have progress. Chairwoman waters i yield back the balance of my time. Chairman green the gentlelady yields back. The Ranking Member mr. Barr is recognized. Mr. Barr thank you, mr. And thank you to our witnesses for your testimony about the vulnerability of homeowners at this time. If i may offer one observation about the testimony of all of our witnesses. It just speaks to the very important need for us to avoid any additional future shutdowns of the economy. Hygiene andractice mask wearing and all of the things to prevent the spread of the virus but particularly for minority borrowers based on the testimony that so many have offered here today, it speaks to the importance of getting people back to work so they can provide for their families and meet those payment obligations. Let me start with a question for dr. Dimarco about the nonfederally backed mortgages and i think your testimony was that for those nongovernment backed mortgages, those mortgages those bar worse are experiencing a higher forbearance rate than federally backed mortgages. Does that tellat you about the marketplace and how the marketplace is responding without the heroes act . Dr. Dimarco a couple of things. What was in the cures act, the theearance provision and cares act implemented for federally backed mortgages is a sound of approach to dealing with this kind of situation and that servicers that are not required under the cares act to provide this support are still utilizing those same tools with their customers in nonfederally backed mortgages. I think that servicers recognize in this situation that payment forbearance is an appropriate response to assist their bar worse and in fact they are doing that whether required by the cares act or not. It is developed as a best practice and is being utilized by servicers of nonfederally veryd mortgages effectively and as you and i noted at a greater rate than in fact we see it with the gsb l oans. Mr. Barr the heroes act contained some parameters for options with for homeowners experiencing difficulties but the authors of the heroes act believe that instituting automatic forbearance for all borrowers and limiting loan Modification Options would benefit bar worse. Dr. Dimarco, how with these proposed sections of the heroes a sact a servicer ervicers ability to communicate with their customer. Think i i understand the intention behind one and two to create an automatic forbearance opportunity for our worst but bute is for borrowers there is something else. It was part of the development the importance of Timely Communications between a servicer and their customer if the customer is having problems. We dont want to wait 60 days and think we have not had a check come in so we should put them in forbearance. The servicer should be in contact with their customer before 60 days to understand the situation so they can in a timely way deliver an appropriate support or opportunity to help get that homeowner back on their feet. For example, the homeowner may have missed two months of name it but it may have nothing to do with an economic disruption but some other reason. The servicer wants to get in touch with that homeowner, find the reason, and solve that particular problem. That is why we would suggest that the idea of making sure the servicer is staying in contact with their customer and the customer is staying in contact with the servicer and that will yield a better outcome for these situations. Barr it is important to recognize that different homeowners face different difficulties and onesizefitsall may not work. Matter what we a did in the cares act or how much forbearance requirements or for burns is allowed in these situations, nothing can replace getting people back to work and kids back in school. Thank you so much and i yield back. Chairman green the chair now recognizes the chairwoman, of theman beatty subcommittee on diversity and inclusion. Beatty thank you. It is my honor to be on this committee and thank you and certainly our chairwoman of the Financial Services committee, congresswoman waters and to our Ranking Member. Thank the me witnesses for your time and testimony. My first question i will try to get through several questions. If i put my hand up, please excuse me. As you know, the cares act is very explicit about the protections congress intended for homeowners with regard to forbearance. Many are experiencing financial hardship. With the possibility of an extension for another 180 days. Despite this, we have gotten dozens of calls and people are confused about the law and what the mortgage servicers were offering. We passed the cares act on march 27. Despite the confusion going on in the marketplace that we all , where would the cf ta be . Why does that take us into june 4 . In terms of the complaints you are hearing, we do have some good protections and the cares act. We only need to step up their game and do much greater oversight of the servicers. Fpb, theyof the c spent most of their time rules. G beatty they have oversight. Cfpb should do more. Y mr. Dimarco, publica in the week, pro about bank ofory america. Haltedice of comptroller or stalled at least six investigations into discriminatory mortgage redlining against the recommendations of their own career staff. Time that theame same agency was working to water t which wasa ac supposed to protect against this type of discriminatory lending. Wereis article, there patterns of discriminatory lending against africanamericans and latinos in several lending institutions in several areas around the country. It also listed a lot of other things which were shelved. Dimarco, many of the lending institutions identified in the article are members of those are members of the association that you lead. Can you tell me your response to this . Ensuree you doing to that members of your organization are not perpetuating the social and economic injustices that africanamericans and other minorities continue to face . Dimarco forgive me, i am not aware of this article. I have not read it or seen it so i am at a disadvantage there that i will take what you said and say look, i would be concerned about those sorts of issues. Im sure my Member Companies named in that article are looking at what is going on here. I would be happy to take a look. Y mr. Chairman, i would like to request that the Committee Use their powers and sources necessary to subpoena documents related to discriminatory lending and seek depositions of Senior Leaders of the occ including the director himself to get to the bottom of these allegations. We have been hearing them. They have been talked about. Im sorry mr. Dimarco is not familiar with this article. My time is up and i yield back. Isirman green your request duly noted and will be acted upon in the due course of events. The chair now recognizes the gentleman for questions from for five minutes. You first and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony. Thank you to chairman green and Ranking Member bar and chairwoman waters as well. And privilege of representing the first Congressional District of new york which covers most of suffolk county. It is one of the most expensive places to live in the country so affordable mortgage options are a essential to my constituents. We are here today to discuss mortgage servicers who play an Important Role in mortgage finance. I had a letter from secretary mnuchin with 19 under members of this community 19 other members of this community. Residential Mortgage Services on two investors and municipalities and insurers whether the borrowers made those payments are not. It is homeowner fails, a role of the servicer to work with the borrower. In the cares act, congress decided that a nationwide broadscale Forbearance Program was needed but it was important that steps were taken. Servicers have a vital role to play in helping borrowers but cannot shoulder the entire onus of Government Action to protect homeowners impacted by covid19 if they do not have access to needed liquidity. I am pleased federal agencies have focused on this and continue to work with servicers on how best to service homeowners. Fha and heart distribute and hud distributed scripts. The new York Attorney general on april 24 called for mortgage servicers to automatically waive ownerses and place home in a threemonth forbearance as soon as a payment is missed whether or not that action was requested by the homeowner. Should borrowers be automatically enrolled in forbearance . Or is it better for the borrower servicerto his or his or her servicer first . Better for it is them to speak to the servicer. So they can determine what is the appropriate our best course of action. May i respond to that . Because the subject came up twice. We agree that people should try to talk to their servicer and as the morebefore, borrowers are not paying their mortgages than are making arrangements with their servicers. People who are already laid on their mortgages have taken a hit on their credit. Thank you. Forbearanceco, takeup rate seems to have leveled off for now. What is your assessment . As result of the administrative action that you mentioned particularly by fha the liquidity situation has stabilized. The interesting thing regulatory actions that could limits around the servicers responsibility enabled the private market to step in and provide additional liquidity once we had greater certainty about what the rules of the road were going to look like in terms of the duration. That the fedeve and the treasury should be ready to step in as needed if the situation turns worse again and liquidity is needed. My time is running out. I just want to thank again all of the witnesses for being here and chairwoman waters and chair green and Ranking Member bar. Great to see all of my colleagues here. And to the staff on the call, thank you for what you do to make this hearing possible. The chair now recognizes the chair of the task force on financial technology, mr. Lynch for five minutes for questioning. Lynch thank you very much. Appreciate you holding this hearing. I guess i would like to look inther out in terms of january or when we hopefully start to come out of this lockdown especially in the what states, what is does the transition look like in terms of recognizing the recognizing the tremendous pressure that has been put on individual homeowners and banks, what doesunity banks, that transition look like in terms of trying to slowly come incrementally get us back to where there is full opportunity for people to catch up on their mortgage payments . In some cases reengineering some of the mortgage project products that are out there or reconstituting the mortgages that are on property that are inadvertently falling behind how does that all come together . Servicer the mortgage obviously the servicer has obligations to the shareholders so i am a little unclear on how in no wayngineer this that does not put the homeowner the renter in some cases bys say the president end all ofrder might this relief we have been providing. How do we help people transition back to some sense of normal . Be glad to take a crack at that. With these households in forbearance come you can imagine that not everyone will come out of forbearance in the same situation. Over the last few months, servicers, there has been a lot of development about refining first servicers the guidelines of these programs for what that post forbearance looks like. Across all of them come it can for a barn to were that comes out of forbearance and has the capacity to not just pick up their mortgage payments but to make a greater payment, they may determine they want to get caught up faster. For a lot of borrowers come if they get back to work, they can resume their prepandemic mortgage payment but not more than that. Worse, thate are will be added to the end of the loan on the life of the loan. Those whose income has been permanently disrupted, we are going to be able to do a loan using loan modification terms. Anyou dont anticipate objection on the part of the , you dont expect any action we would have to take to make that happen . I will take that it i am happy to have you answer. What we have seen. As you said mister lynch, services on private mortgages are beholden to the guidelines from the investors. So what we like to see is the safe harbor for mortgage servicers from investor liability so that they can provide Loan Modifications along the lines at the tses and sha and other Government Agencies can provide that are sustainable i would add that these issues are unprecedented. We dont yet know whether the Loan Modifications being offered will be a portable enough people. That is a perfect answer. Thats what i wanted to know in case we do allow to give a break to some of these placeholders we need to collaborate on that and i think that would be a winwin all the way around. I yelled back. The gentleman yields that the chair now recognizes gentleman Mister Rhodes for five minutes for questions. German greenpharmacist for testifying before the committee today. Currently as you know approximately 4. 1 million homeowners are in forbearance plans. Some due to the uncertainty surrounding covid19. Courts have shown a large number continue to make payments even after requesting forbearance. That number has dropped sharply between march andjune though. Youre in tennessee folks are ready to get back to work and i believe we need to do so as quickly and safely as possible. Doctor dimarco, why did some people out into forbearance but continue to pay down the principal. In your opinion. Im not sure theres one explanation for that. In some cases it might have been a timing issue. They were sure when they got the request in time for that first love in other cases i believe it may be the majority the consumer wasnt sure what their Economic Situation was going to be. Maybe i had a lot of uncertainty at work or getting on forbearance quickly so they had that and once they realize that the impact their circumstances were okay. They may have ended up forbearance or others may actually have mediated and exported decided to take advantage of it. I think theres multiple reasons. Any adverse consequences to asking for forbearance but then not taking advantage of it was in mark. If one has, youre supposed to with the care zach said out in Economic Hardship resulting from this pandemic in order to ask for the forbearance so if you have forbearance and continue to make the mortgage payment theres no adverse consequences. You believe getting americans take me back to work. Im sorry. The only doctor marco americans back to work would decrease the number of borrowers we need to be in forbearance. Certainly punishment, the more people we get back to work the more you wont be able to pay their mortgage and that you are in forbearance. Fairfax requires constitutional forbearances for homeowners experiencing trouble due to the pandemic. Those provisions only cover however federal impact loans to doctor dimarco, how have the private Mortgage Services change their practices tokeep families in their homes . They are generally doing the same thing as federally backed mortgages. Offering mortgage payments forbearance to their customers who cant get them and declare their having financial hardships due to the pandemic as a result those loans are, those rate of those loansis greater. Interesting. Mister rose. One thing i wanted to point out is most private servicers if they have an investor that their servicing for, they are advancing payments so about 120 days of forbearance, much more financially sound and we are concerned that ninetyday forbearances are going to go to 180 days from the private market and thats going to prevent a significant problem. Thank you miss cohen and Mister Rhodes, the National Organization of Real Estate Brokers in our statement addressed one of our five solutions. Services need to adhere to sha guidelines. Iq. [inaudible] let me ask some questions and reclaim my time. Doctor dimarco what other efforts have you seen stakeholders make to protect homeowners . I think theyve done a great deal to set up on their website clear information for borrowers to understand what their options are. Theyve made a tremendous effort to shift their servicingoperations to individuals homes. They had to do that technology and security around to make that happen. I think those have been terrific efforts that servicers have made and the other is there proactively reaching out to their customers to find out what their situation is and to make sure theyre getting the right tools to help in their situation. Iq and throughout the pandemic i believe the Trump Administration has continuously rolled out updated guidance for industry stakeholders read doctor dimarco in the few seconds we have , i dont know if we have enough time but i would love to hear how your assessment of how the agency as assisted with the implementation of the care zach and with that i back. The general time has expired. The chair will recognize next mister vasquez, the chair of the full Small Business committeefor five minutes of questions. Thank you chairman green. Chair waters and the Ranking Member for these important hearings. Quite timely hearings. This question is for the panel. Recently companies and organizations like the center for responsible lending and the National Application of reinforce and have all come out in opposition to the Trump Administrations plan to weekend the disparate impact. Thereby making it harder to pursue housing discrimination cases. There are other groups in opposition to the proposed changes as well. So with a quick yes, sir no, does anyone believe now it is the time to weaken house and discrimination rules. Lets start with you. Know. Number. Mister dimarco. We dont want to weaken. Iq. While that sha has provided some guidance to fha services , regarding the presentation of the care that. Related to the forbearance, a recent hud oig report found that and i quote, fha or visitors, websites with with presenting about 90 percent of fha loans provided incomplete and consistent data us and clear guidance to borrowers. Do you think further guidance from the fha services regarding forbearance is needed. Fha should provide further guidance and so should congress included in the next package. About websites, writtennotice and oral notice. Why do you think the fha hasnt issued such guidance . I cant answer why fha has not done that. Ill say i agree with doctor dimarco that they done a really incredible job of a lot of guidance and they just got a lot of new rules which hopefully will make loss mitigation moreaffordable for more people. Iq, missed really what is your organization seen in terms of servicers communications to borrowers about having to pay a lump sum payment at the end of the forbearance period. Do you feel misinformation about retaining options is discouraging borrowers to obsess in the programs relief afforded to them under the care zach . Absolutely. Absolutely. The people that we talk to our frazzled about this lump sum payment. They are few of them have heard of the 180 days let alone ayear. So its causing really, its causing a lot of undue headaches in these communities. And the borrowers are concerned about their ability to pay even at some point. Let alone after 90 days. They are concerned when theyre going to work and to the question earlier when employment increases things will be a little bit better but right now thesehomeowners are frazzled. Despite everything with the servicer. They are not getting theright information. Thank you miss braley. Yes. Just to dovetail on what marcus said, we basically need more awareness. The borrowers need to know that their protected and can be promoted on tv, on radio and even email. They need to know their protected because its folklore right now. Whose responsibility it is to get information out . We are failing. The services and the government right now as we said on our statement. Mister greeley, many with mortgages in forbearance may still be unable to make their parent payments when the forbearance protections under the care zach expires. Based on what youve seen over the past few months are you concerned about Services Ability to work with borrowers to keep them in their homes after their forbearance period ends . I am very concerned area i have 2 witnesses, two people that i know that said that one servicer said they even wouldnt work with theprogram at all. Thats what they told us, they didnt work with that at all. Another servicer gave the person the borrower 90 days, three months and they have a payment of 17,000. At theend of it. So im concerned. Is a ladies time has expired. The chair will now recognize Mister Timmons for five minutes for questions. Thank you mister chairman, good to be with you all. I appreciate you having this hearing. We need to get this right. Just in january february we are experiencing him of the lowestunemployment in history in south carolina. And covid19 is changing everything so the federal government did what could. The care act had a lot of great things it has currently put together and overwhelmingly was in the right direction. Were going to make sure we get the next package right rid it needs to be tailored to those that need it and people that are still struggling from unemployment or with other economic challenges we need to make sure we get the help that they need. Were expecting a vaccine here december, january february march april. The sooner the better in my opinion you sure we will all agree on rid im going to be one ofthe first people to get it because im in the national guard, they get it right the first time. Her dimarco im concerned that in october november, were going to hit our six month and were going to have a lot of people that are stillunemployed. Our either half challenges making advantage, what policies should we consider to address that. For those in federally backed mortgages which is the majority of homeowners , they get the six months and they still are experiencing an Economic Hardship because of this pandemic. Then they should be in touch with their servicer requesting an initial extension of their forbearance. So in that sense, the answer is already there. The larger question is getting people back to work and balancing and dealing with both the Health Issues our country space as well as the need toget the economy going. We are dealing with that exact issue here in south carolina. The issue is if you are older or have an Underlying Health condition we need you to protect yourself and we need to make sure you areable to protect yourself. If youre not worried about how having your credit ruined for wrists or say going back to work but if youre healthy and you have a lower risk factor, we needto get to get back to work because ultimately getting the economy restarted and getting a vaccine is whats going to get us through this. Mister timmons. I wanted to supplement what mister dimarco said. We want to see people get back to work when its time to do that and their healthy. But one third of the Mortgage Market is not governmentbacked loans. So we want to make sure that those people can get affordable Loan Modifications if they need them after their forbearance is so that we can see increased employment and decreased foreclosure including an upstate where you live area. I appreciate that and honestly it was a remarkable, i had so many businesses, so many individuals called talking about this issue we are discussing. The balloon payment at the end of the forbearance, i had a call with the bankers and immediately the next day we wanted to make sure that was not going to be the case anywhere. Obviously its unacceptable and i think the adverse impacts on the perception of any entity that is not providing her parents is sufficient. The pr hit would be not worth the raw but onto a different subject. As you all know, the hsa and gse had adopted temporary origination policy that are largely remote and virtual environments we find ourselves in. This is applied to appraisals, underwriting and online notarization. This has been helpful in my opinion to help maintain the health of the market during the pandemic and id like to ask each of youyes, sir number do you think these remote policies set to expire august 31 should be permanent . Ill start with doctor dimarco. These policies have certainly hope the Mortgage Market going and in one form or another welike to see some of these, certainly things like remoteonline notarization be made permanent. Mister williams. I believe some of those programs should be made available andme made permanent. Thank you, miss griffith. Ill go to ms. Kelly. We think those are important programs that we need to make sure theyre only using itused in certain circumstances and make sure appraisals are no reasonably accurate. I think we agree to that. Mister chairman thank you for having this hearing and i look forward to working with you on these issues without back area. Magellan yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman for five minutesfor questions. Thank you mister chair. I have to say i subscribe to much of what Mister Timmons had to say and pretty realistic view of what were facing and the questions that he asked. And i have taken some of not offense but i heard with mister r as he started off his remarks and saying its a tough Economic Situation were in as a result of a government mandated shutdown. And the bottom line is this is covid19 related and we dont have it under control read this thing will continue to evolve. Its going to be difficult and we dont know how many different ways. As Mister Timmons was saying and i think all of us believe , each of us has to devise some kind of latitude to others for all ofus to get through this thing. So 37 states this past week have seen increased numbers of infections and hospitalization. Were not out of this any stretch of the imagination and i think that the housing industry, mortgage industry are going to continue to be roiled by this for some time. I think this is going to evolve. I would ask miss griffin mister dimarco, there are provisions in the heroes that that contemplate the fact that were not out of this virus yet. And that at the end of this month, the pandemic Unemployment Insurance runs out. We see a lot of the funding for the ppp loans will have been exhausted by individual businesses. We havent got another stimulus or stability payment. If this virus continues to roll as it has now stuck with you miss griffin, are we going to need to implement some things in the heroes act for people to pay their mortgages get up forbearance for asecond, we all like them to pay their mortgage. Absolutely. You know, the reality is that the more help we can give to homeowners, the better. Theyre going absolutely needed as you justsaid. This is, the situation is not getting better. Its getting worse. Certainly consideration to helping homeowners, helping organizations like ours and others that can help these homeowners on their feet and work with the servicers. This is really, this is really critical. These guys really do not have our homeowners do not have any of them at least dont have a grasp for whats next. And so the work, and ill just briefly say what the counseling organizations that we can do, kind of settled people down, give them direction. Even to provide advice and guidance about working with the servicer as well as how to enhance their own lives. This is what, this is what we want. And we certainly need to think about a ham like program was very effective last time area i think this will be very effective Going Forward and this is something we would really really encourage. I thank you for that and ill turn you quickly mister dimarco. But its sort of i think you hit the nail on the head. When you have uncertainty and you have here, and an economy, it slows the economy down. No ifs, ands or buts. There needs to be some level of certainty and to try hopefully to get the vaccine as soon as we can or make some Technological Breakthroughs and therapeutics to take away the fear but doctor dimarco, what do you think were going to need assuming that this virus is not extinguished or even far off the vaccine for five, six, seven months. I agree. This is a big picture question about our economy, about Small Businesses and even Large Businesses that are suffering because of how the pandemic intersects with those industries and those businesses. Having great hardship among families because of the unemployment that isresulting from that. So this is a day macroeconomic challenge and thats a bit outside of my scope but i would say i understand the Federal Reserve chairman powell before congress recently talking about the need for continued distal support. In fate of how the pandemic and economic response to it is affecting our economy, our businesses and our workers so i dont have a particular prescription but to say that i think esther powell, chairman powell currently identified. And i thank you and i feel back to the chair area. My time has expired, the german recognizes gentleman Mister Taylor for questions. Thank you mister chairman and i appreciate this hearing. This is a very important topic and i think weve been talking a lot about individual impact and i think all of us as members of congress see that everyday and i know i was at a food bank in allen texas and just watching the real need in our communities is deeply affecting me. I want to take a second and come back and talk about the macro for a second. Talk about the picture. Right now, about eight percent of the homeowners in the United States are currently in her parents. And so that, just thinking about what that could mean, if there wasnt forbearance. Its kind of take that for a second and see if there wasnt forbearance, my guess is that would mean about 80 percent of the homes in the United States would be foreclosed in the next year you then when the foreclosure goes to sell those equity those it would basically collapse the real estate market. The home values would collapse across the country because you have a tremendous amount of Work Closures and im saying that based on the experience that dallas texas went through and dallas as a c during the 80s. I remember the savings and loan crisis and you want a tremendous number of foreclosure and trust corporations when the producing party seagate. The 80s and early 90s and the liquidations were such that things were literally, office buildings, training for 10 a square foot. People that could take a Retail Properties literally or paying the taxes so i just wanted to know if you have any thoughts on what we didnt have, how bad would it be for the Housing Market in this country on the valuation side. In 12 or 24 months once you had a bunch of liquidation but then collapses. Mister dimarco, did youwant to that . The congressman it would certainly be bad. I dont know how to cite it any differently than you just did. It would also, one of the things that forbearance has accomplished is it is assisted in the response to the health crisis. By allowing people to be able to stay home to quarantine or whatever the particular standard is in the community to help suppress the virus. Its helping, the virus, recognizing that its providing economic support for the household workers because theyre not going to be able to pay their mortgage so its not just economic or whatever happens in the real estate market, theres also the question of the Health Impacts we are creating when people feel they got to go back to work even if thats not coinciding with good Health Factors in this environment. Mister williams, you want to talk about what were trying to have happening here. I do. It would be for. But what happened to when i went to school they taught me the three important necessities in life werefood, clothing and shelter. How did we get to bailing out the Airline Industry before we look out for the homeowners. So i just feel that if we dont do something, if we dont , we dont get everyone involved and get on the same page. If we dont move quickly and were going to be in for ahuge , huge problem. Absolutely. If i could add to that, if i can add to that without, first of all the forbearance have provided a profound help to homeowners. Without it, we would be inundated with foreclosures. Where theres a possibility we are headed towards that and we certainly need to Work Together but with all questions for people of color or these vulnerable communities, without for variances, without the work that weredoing together , there would be a whole other generation of wealth, loss of wealth. Its bad now. It appears to get worse. And hopefully we can sort of Work Together to stem this tide. Missed do you want to make any comment i think the macro situation. There is consensus that were working a macro catastrophe by trying to useforbearance. I agree with that Mister Taylor. I think we should also keep in mind in this macro situation is who isnt making their payments and doesnt have a forbearance . What is that going to do to the economy and the Property Values as well and how can we can connect enough people that we understand whats going on sowe can prevent it faster. And in my final piece ill just point out that im working with a lot of members on the committee on both sides try to work on your parents were trying to help within the commercial real estate space because we have done a great job and we heard that on the home side. Much more work to do but were headed in the right direction. We are concerned with about two. [inaudible] the gentlemens time has expired and the gentle lady mister leefor five minutes for questions. Thank you so much chairman the and thank you for this critically important pairing. I know chairman al green has come to my district and asked and saw how even in the last session just how much committees are still suffering so many of my residence especially throughout wayne county have been on survivor mode. Theyhave been letting check by check. Just alone in the city of detroit 88,000 people were infected out of their homes. So for this to happen in pandemic and not in control of anyone. This is very much something that came about i dont think any of us could have truly been able to truly prepare for, especially in the housing mechanism. I dont know about healthcare but with housing. I want to talk about this. This is critically important and i think my colleague Mister Taylor talks, was talking about this. Forbearance in these kind of moratoriums on watershed off utility loans, mortgages, theyre just bandaids. All that money is going to be due in a forbearance is up. What are we going to do then mark i want to possibly start with Mister Williams you know from many of your clients and even in your membership, are they, because what i hear from my residence is why art are we doing payments . Why arent we doing something as aggressive and bold that we are doing for airlines and other industries. Why arent we having our people bail out where we are looking at reoccurring so that people can pay all this down. Because again, some of these jobs will come back but even if the jobs come back or not going to have that lump sum ready to go to payoff. They still might end up losing their homes. Can youtalk about that western mark. Youre absolutely right, thats why we asked for that fivepoint plan we have some serious illusions that we want youall to take a look at. So thats how, thats the direction we feel we can go in area weve been decimated. This is critical time. Its timefor action. Its really happening. I appreciate you bringing up my black neighbors the cause we lost blackmore blackhole worship in michigan than any other state, 40 percentattorney , youve been very thoughtful in how you talk about these issues and the fact that we still are leaving a lot of our neighbors across the country, homeowners behind in the way were approaching us. I dont know if youre familiar with the automatic amenities act that i introduced but it would be reoccurring payments of 2000 per month on a recharged debit card. You think that will help with some of theissues were seeing with people possibly losing their homes because of this pandemic . Thank you for your question. Im not familiar with this in my little universe has legislation and i can talk to my colleagues about it the biggest problem with angeles fat people is that they are financially strapped area so theyre living on the edge they need cash in addition to needing help from their services and from other creditors so anything we can do to do that will move things in the right direction people should also look closely around the homeowners assistance fund. Because state can also administer programs that hit the hardest hit areas in ways that beconstructive. Also congresswoman, getting the word out that the homeowner or the borrower is knowledgeable enough about the program. This could be the same, this has the same effect as the ppp where Huge Companies got all thismoney and we didnt get it. Mister williams, even with the ppp and my incredible colleague Mister Velasquez has been so much, bringing the voices of Small Businesses its so incompetent but i also be honest, services are playing games with peoples lives. Some of them if youre not saying the correct word, if youre notrequesting a certain way. Amember of congress myself , i know im new i have to pick up the phone and call a servicer and say why did you tell my resident they dont qualify when according to the legislation we passed they do qualify western mark they need to say this way. This is not a game. They obviously cant pay so letsput that as an option and stop playing games with thethat really, theyre going to lose their homes. These are not people that are like , they just dont have the capability of doing it and im tired of people pretending that its because of economic shutdown. We didthis to them. We put them on survivor mode. Literally one emergency away. Now the pandemic has happened but they were one emergency away from going into poverty. I think its our responsibility to put people first i thank all of you so much. I think we need to talk about it and we talk about this program and of course we need all those programs in the five points we need reoccurring payments. Other countries are doing getting people human dignity. Then choose for their family and payments are going to be key here. I do so much chairman green. Always a pleasure to work with you. Thank you and i yield. The gentle lady yields and the chair recognizes the gentle lady miss dean for five minutes area. Thank you misterchairman, and you hear me. Thank you mister chairman or calling this Important Committee meeting area i think chairwoman waters as well. I thank the Ranking Member mister barr, mister barr you andyour family are in my prayers. Im sorry on your grievous loss. Im pleased to be here to talk about this and know that the lens i am looking through what were talking about here in terms of folks and their mortgages in precarious places is one from what lessons did we learn from the past . What did we learn from 2008. I was not in congress that. Like representative to leave i am a freshman as representative don taylor talk about we have 4 million Mortgage Loans in forbearance. As far as the fire at the loss, many people are not in forbearance and are missing payments so we could take things cold there. And we put together information and its important protections through the karabakh and we want to do even more to the heroes at area need to get evil protections they need to keep the roof over their head to protect their credit and protect their families. Mister mcwilliams i liketo start with you. Youve begun to talk about this. But youre concerned about what Mortgage Services are and are not doing you protect borrowers in terms of whether its communication or reaching out when a payment is missed to find out whats going on to see if they should be putinto forbearance. What other things you need to be done in order to get protection, forbearance to as many borrowers as possible. I think that we need to have some communication going out in the service. They need to put in their mailings, email. This should be acommercial on television. Getting this information out. I think that we hinder ourselves. I think that their limited in giving information to services diversely as well. So those are the important things i think right off that we need to have medication to. I like to add in there also complements the outreach is critical. What we have found from the past foreclosure crisis was that people, they really need some guidance. They really need some help. And even if the servicers all send out information. It needs to be clear. It needs to be civil. And without question, we really need to have some advocates in the midst that can be able to explain things to these borrowers who as you said are our congresswoman, they are on the edge. And really just need some guidance though outreach is certainly critical and the hands need is also critical. Can i just say one other thing, i agree with Mister Williams and ms. Griffin but the servicers dont have the capacity to do the level of small servicing that were going to see. They didnt do it well in the last crisis and theyre not doing it well now. You get onto the website and you dont need much from them but if you actually need something from them its more complicated. We can put the onus on the homeowners tounderstand and reach out. We need Automated Systems and we need to make sure people are offered what they need without having to go through a lot of red tape. At the perfect segue, i wanted to ask you next. What are the lessons we learned in the past that i hope we desperately do not repeat in this economic collapse. What are some of those lessons. Thank you for the question. The first one is people need affordable options when they cant pay their regular mortgage payments. That is one of the good things that came out of the last election with a general understanding about that but we dont know whether the programs we now would be affordable. Second, when you have a crisis in black and latin homeownership thats been exacerbated by the current crisis, we need to look richly at what the problems are and what the solutions are to ask yourself whether we need to start something new. Let me ask you in my final secondtier, you talk earlier in your testimony about the cfpb and what they need to help people avoid foreclosure. What is the responsibility of the the cfpb and what could they be doing proactively as we perceive the number of complaints going through the roof, what should they be doing to help people avoid foreclosure. I have a long list in my testimony but let me give you 2. One is work with the federal Housing Finance agency on the borrower protection programs, provide transparent data, learned from consumer complaints and take action against companies that are misbehaving. Second, right now they have an interim final rule that they put out. We need to protect people against foreclosure which they havent done. The gentle lady time has expired. The chair recognizes himself in fiveminutes. I was here in 2008. And isaw how weve treated the big things. The truth is this. They were overpaid. Overpaid. Overpaid and there were banks that said we dont want that money. We dont want it to appearas though we need the money. But we imposed upon them billions of dollars. People overpaid. But when it comes to the consumer consumer gets shortchanged. The consumer has to jump through all kinds of hoops to try to get what congress intendedconsumers to receive. So im just appalled to be quite frank with you at the fact that the consumer always seems to find himself or herself scrambling to get something these big banks get as a matter of course. Im not opposed to big banks. I dont want everybody tobe treated fairly. This program in my opinion has no consequences. If the servicers misbehave are no consequences area it seems to me that we in the future will have to find a way to impose some consequences area my constituents who have actually received this notice that is according them three months of forbearance that they are entitled to 80days , they do not have to hire a lawyer if they want to do this. They can get it done simply because they have made a fair and just request. They will have to gothrough some other extenuating circumstances. I would like to know this he submitted into the record without getting. I would also called your attention this area it always seems people of color are having to account for themselves. We have to prove that people of color are being discriminated against area and this is not just as it relates to the Financial Services industry. Its across the board people of color always seem to be at the bottom. At some point we have to have a system of justice such that people of color will get the same treatment as the other persons in this society. I think that what happened to george floyd is exposing the underbelly of whats happening to people of color and other people are starting to realize that it will take more than our cries to get a son. It is my belief there is the dissemination so let me go to you, Mister Williams if i made at least her. You agree that there is this discrimination taking place in lending . I do. I agree. I see it often. What we, we have some resolutions. I mean that need to be theres no better time right now we need to address the black homeownership program. Let me do this, time is of the essence you missed griffin do you agree that there is systemic extermination in lending. Yes there is. And let me go next to miss colin. Do you agree there systemic discrimination in lending. I agree, the cfpb found for people with the same Credit Scores like borrowers were rejected from mortgages at higher rates. And mister dimarco, do you agree. I agree that we certainly have a history of this but there still seems to beareas where its an issue yes. If you agree that there is this systemic discrimination, i have proposed that we have a department of reconciliation with the responsibility of dealing with racism and insidious discrimination in this country and it would deal with Financial Services. It goes into policing and many other areas. If you agree that we have this problem and we had for hundreds of years. Its about time we do something other than what we have been doing. What you agree Mister Williams that it would be appropriate to have a department of reconciliation who has as its responsibility to look out for people being discriminated against and this would include the protected classes. The lookout for them,report to the president , secretary of reconciliation. Would you agree that such a position should exist. I agree wholeheartedly. Missed where do you stand. Yes, we take its important and we think its important to. My time is of the essence im so sorry. Where you stand please. Agree that it needs to be monitored and there is to be penalty. And mister dimarco. I have no opinion on a position like that. I do believe we all have a responsibility. Let me do this now that you sent this mister dimarco. All persons in the agreement and you think this racism and discrimination as it relates to people including the classes should be handled with the department thatspecializes in this , kindlyraise your hand. Raise your hand so that we may capture all onscreen. Okay. I see everyones hand raising, mister dimarco would you do a screenshot of this lease. Thank you. Thank you for answering, my time hasexpired. And i would like to also include for the record, a statement from the Mortgage Bankers association without objection. Without objection, included in the record. Friends, if i may now. Bring this to closure. I thank all of you for appearing today especially the witnesses. And thank you for your testimony and for devoting your time and resources to share your expertise with the subcommittee. The testimony has helped to advance the important work of the subcommittee and u. S. Congress. The chair notes that some members may have additional questions for thispanel which they may wish to submit in writing. Without objection the hearing will remain open for five legislative days for members to some questions to the business and to place their responses in the record area also without objection members will have five legislative days to submit extraneous material to the chair for inclusion in the record i remind members to submit written questions and materials for the record. The email address provided to your staff. This hearing is now cspans washington journal. News andy day with policy issues that impact you. Friday morning, Sally Greenberg discusses Consumer Protection efforts amid a surge in coronavirus scams. And itll tennessee universitys president talks about the challenges of managing a college during a pandemic. Join the discussion. Heres a look at our live coverage friday. 10 30 a. M. , treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin joins the head of the Small Business administration for a hearing on how the Paycheck Protection Program is being used to help Small Businesses. On cspan two at 11 00 a. M. , the u. S. Chamber of congress hosts a discussion on the pandemic with dr. Anthony fauci. And later, ben bernanke and janet yellen testify on the impact on the economy at a hearing held by the Senate Select subcommittee. A look at how covid19 is affecting beneficiaries of social security. The ways and Means Committee will get underway at noon. Q a, john burka special edition of the magazine. Theres a lot going on in our country. It is unsettling times for a number of americans with everything having to do with the covid crisis to the lockdown to the killing of george floyd. The president ial election. A lot of people are taking the opportunity to reexamine fi