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Interviewn an recently there is a escalation in place. You . As this elevated to a. G. Barr on monday, february 10, the u. S. Attorney was with me and he raised the issue with me. Had it been elevated between the two months that this came in . Nder the former u. S. Attorney a. G. Barr i think he may have had conversations with people. Did you ever have conversations with the former u. S. Attorney about this case . I do not recall any discussion. You said in the interview that he was new, he had just started. But he had worked for you for a long time. What was his job . A. G. Barr when i was attorney general 30 years ago. He was on my staff. He advised you on criminal Justice Policy . A. G. Barr correct. You named him acting u. S. Attorney. Had you discussed the stone case with him . A. G. Barr no. You said he came in the week before. To see some senior staff. He may have had some discussions. I was not involved in them. No substance of involvement with stone until he came in on the morning. I think he had raised it with the deputy offices. The first week he was there he came to raise this issue. A. G. Barr i think he started february 1. That is what you told abc news. That he talked to senior staff. I think i speak english. He had some conversations. Did you talk to the senior staff . They said he was trying to work something out. He was optimistic that something could be worked out. He filed the sentencing memo and it called for 79 years. Then you overruled and asked for a lower sentence. That apply to roger stone . A. G. Barr i cannot reveal all of the information. Does that apply . A. G. Barr no. Did what apply . s health. A. G. Barr health is a reason. Was that the case for roger stone . Age can be a consideration only if it creates conditions to an unusual degree. He is 67. A. G. Barr the judge agreed with me. I am not asking you that. A. G. Barr i know youre not. The issue here is whether roger stone was treated differently because he was friends with the president. When you asked to reduce the sentence, you said enhancements were technically applicable. Do you think of other times when a defendant threatened to kill a witness, threaten to a judge, lied to a judge where the Justice Department claims those were mere technicality. A. G. Barr the judge agreed with us. I am not asking about that. I am asking about what you did hereduce the sentence threatened the life of a witness. A. G. Barr can i answer the question . I am asking if there is another time. A. G. Barr the judge agreed with me. Appearances. This is exactly what you want. The rule of law for everybody. And we dont in this case because he is a friend of the president. Thank you for being here. I am a member of this committee and the appropriations committee. I have seen firsthand the funding in the operation of the department. I served on the city council in my hometown of mike conaway alabama. I witnessed the value of different grant programs. It is also responsible for the Alabama Center for missing and exploited children. It has done a great job combating child expectation. Isyou believe that congress adequately funding programs that provide states and local agencies with the tools that effective inbe preventing and pursuing crimes such as child expectation and Human Trafficking . Particularly over the internet . We could i think always use more resources. The u. S. Attorney came to me and said the prosecutors were threatening to resign. Tore was no comparable case support that sentence. It wouldve been very disparate. Clustered cases were around a three year sentence for that. Had gotten to that number was applying an enhancement. There are debates all the time within the Justice Department about the upper calculations they were saying he had a phone call at night and told the witness lets get it on. I will kill your dog. We thought that technically could apply but in this case it did not afflict the overarching conduct. We make individual assessments of the defendant. Nothing is excessive. Tose individuals were trying force the u. S. Attorney to adopt that sentence. I made the decision though, we are going to leave it up to the judge. Later, when that was not done that evening, i told people we have to go back and correct that the next morning. That was the sequence of events. At the end of the day, the proof and the footings in ve day. The judge would not have gone along with the first recommendation because the enhancement artificially inflated the exposure of the defendant. At the end of the day, the question is fairness to the individual. Even though i was going to get a lot of criticism for doing that. I am happy to have yielded you time to respond. I am a departing member of congress. I have just a few short moments left. Hownt to express to you much this is means to me. I am increasingly alarmed about the way that children are one from being on a forum or a chat room with bad actors. I appreciate all the work. A. G. Barr one of the most difficult issues coming up his encryption. Rep. Bass last august, when speaking to the National Fraternal order of place, you that this willws make everyone safe. You said zerotolerance for resisting police. A. G. Barr i think it is very important. Barr a zero is costing lives. Elijah mcclain was walking home from a Convenience Store when he was approached by police. He had not committed a crime. Police held him in a choke hold and then injected him with ketamine. Are you familiar with the case . Do you know how frequently cadman is used ketamine is us ed . Do you know if Police Departments have been directed to document paramedics . A. G. Barr no. Have not i guess you evaluated the use of force tactics since becoming attorney general. A. G. Barr not with respect to that. Will you commit to directing the department to evaluating the protocols around the use of otherne, chokehold, and uses of force . A. G. Barr absolutely. Under the president s executive order, we are reviewing that. The bass especially ketamine. That is pretty outrageous. George floyd was killed by a Police Officer via chokehold. He was suspected of using a counterfeit 20 bill. Consider james holmes, who murdered 12 people and injured 70 others in a Movie Theater in aurora, colorado the same town as Elijah Mcclain. He wore body armor, had a knife, semi automatic weapons, and in ar15. Yet he was calmly arrested by the same Police Department as Elijah Mcclain without a chokehold or injection of enemy. Used a gun to injure nine people. When he was arrested, no chokehold, no injections. He was treated so well that officers brought him burger king. Are you familiar with that case. A. G. Barr yes. Rep. Bass i racist too example to follow up on what my colleague from texas highlighted earlier. The department is not doing enough to address issues of racism, bias, and brutality in Law Enforcement. When someone who commits mass murder is calmly arrested while a young man walking down the street is placed in a chokehold and injected with ketamine. You set under the executive order the administration is looking at chokehold. What have you determined so far . A. G. Barr we are setting up a system of certification of Police Departments. That would include limitations on use of force. Part of that act called for a National Registry of Law Enforcement officers. Tamir rice might be alive today if the police chief who hired that officer had known that the officer had been fired from another department. What is your view of a National Registry of Law Enforcement officers . Aspect of the second the president s executive order is to set up a database. If Police Departments are not reporting that information, they without the certified. Rep. Bass thank you. I want to comment on part of your Opening Statement when you said after the jim crow. That our Justice System was equal. I do not believe that. A. G. Barr i set the laws were made equal. Rep. Bass they are certainly not applied equally. We have systemic problems in our Law Enforcement. 2. 3 Million People in the u. S. Are incarcerated. 34 are black. While africanamericans are just 13 of the u. S. Population. It is not the numbers, it is the. Ercentage gaetz you described the prosecution of roger stone as righteous. I would suggest that uncovering the criminal conspiracy that exists where people in our own government are trying to convince intelligence agencies around the world to destabilize our election and discredit our president would be more righteous. I dont think any of those other folks are killing anyone or burning down our buildings. I would like to focus our efforts. You said antifa is a terrorist organization. What is your basis for that belief . A. G. Barr im not sure i said terrorist organization. I said we are investigating as of terrorism. There are a number of violent extreme groups in the u. S. And they are across the spectrum. Antifa is heavily represented in the recent riots. They have 10 identified as being involved in a number of violent mob actions. Rep. Gaetz some say antifa is a myth. That their involvement in this violence is not something that israel. What is your reaction . A. G. Barr i dont think it is a myth. Asifa can be best thought of an umbrella term for what is essentially a movement comprised of loosely organized groups around the country. There are a number of groups and centers of activity. Organized are loosely but they are definitely organized. They do not get along very well. They tend to get organized for an event. There is a lot of organization right before an event occurs. Rep. Gaetz that is a really important distinction when considering how to apply our rico laws to Something Like this. That strikes me as legally distinct. I wonder if there is a risk if this will metastasize to other parts of the country. A. G. Barr we are concerned about this. We feel like we have to, and a place like portland, or even where we do not have the support of the State Government or local government, we have to take a stand and defends federal property. Wherenot get to a level we will accept these kinds of violence. If you did what my democratic colleagues were asking, if you abandon that federal property and allow people inside to be harmed, is it your view that antifa and other violent people would civilly stop and accept that as their sole victory . Or is it your Expert Opinion that they would not stop . A. G. Barr there is no doubt in my mind it would spread. Rep. Gaetz what comfort can you give americans in my district and around the country that you . Ill stop the burning that you will give confidence to regular americans that they can go out in the streets . A. G. Barr as you can see in portland, we have a small number of federal officers. It is a great strain but we cannot stand aside and allow federal court to be destroyed. Rep. Gaetz thank you for your service and your great work. Thank you. Started with eloquent words about john lewis. When you came here and brought your top staff, you brought no black people. That is systematic racism. That is exactly what john lewis spent his life fighting. Suggest that actions speak louder than words. The namey should keep of john lewis out of the department of justices mouth. Talkedalso say, you about the bogus russia investigation. Is russia attempting to interfere in the 2020 president election . I think we have to assume they are. Thank you. Lets talk about the integrity of the election, which is also something congressman lewis fought for. Kenny sitting u. S. President move and election date . A. G. Barr i have not looked under that in the constitution. If you take that as the correct statue, is there any executive action . A. G. Barr i have never looked into it. That this 2020ve president ial election will be rigged . A. G. Barr i have no reason to think it will be. Thatesident trump tweeted the election will be rigged. That when heweeted was losing to hillary clinton. I dont want to be too political. Do you believe as attorney general that mailin voting will lead to massive voter fraud . A. G. Barr i think there is a high risk that it will. Do you ever vote by mailin ballot . A. G. Barr i did once. What you believe other people voting by mailin ballot could lead to massive fraud . A. G. Barr what i have made very clear is i am not talking about complications for people who have to be out of the state or have some particular need or inability to going vote. You do understand that africanamericans disproportionally do not survive covid19 . A. G. Barr yes, i think that is right. The firstuld not be time that africanamericans would risk their lives to vote in this country to preserve its democracy. That of themn is having the ability to vote by tol would somehow lead massive voter fraud. A. G. Barr i did not say that. If you have wholesale mailin voting, it increases the risk of fraud. Can a president protest because he lost an election . A. G. Barr protest in what sense . Can he contest and election because he loses . That was over a slim voter margin. If it is very clear that the president has lost an election, does he have a remedy to contested . A. G. Barr not that i am aware of. To whate go back representative bass mentioned. You mentioned eight after marrying after americans killed by the police. 85you use those numbers, percent of the population is white. 42 of the deaths are africanamerican. Is a glaring disparity in terms of population. A. G. Barr not necessarily. You have to adjusted by the race of the criminal perpetrator. I just did that for you. Im using your number. I wanted to give you that based on your numbers. A. G. Barr the studies i have seen have suggested two things. Likely to shoot at a black suspect. A little bit more likely to shoot at a white suspect. The fact that police are more inclined to use nonlethal force and a contact with an africanamerican suspect. In terms of the statistics, that is what it looks like to me. Have, that is you incorrect. I am interested in seeing it. Send me the data on africanamericans within the department of justice. How many you have in leadership ranks. I yield back. Nadler i would remind you to stop violating the rules of the committee. Stop violating the safety of the members of the committee. Stop holding themselves out as not caring by refusing to wear their masks. It is permissible to drink a sip of coffee . That is why i took off my mask. Rep. Nadler mr. Jordan is recognized. Jordan the judge agreed with your sentencing . A. G. Barr that is right. Rep. Jordan would st. Johns church be standing today if you had not taken action . A. G. Barr that was on sunday night. I think Law Enforcement did use tear gas. So the firetrucks could get in to save it. Rep. Jordan seven people at the Treasury Department unmasked Michael Flynns name. This is an issue youre looking into . Another u. S. Asked attorney to look into the issue of unmasking. Because of the high number of notskings and some that do readily appear to have been in the line of normal business. There is another investigation going on . A. G. Barr yes. Rep. Jordan that is great. He is looking at how this started. Rep. Jordan 38 people 49 times unmasked his name. That was in the final days of the obamabiden administration. A. G. Barr over a much longer time. Rep. Jordan even before that. I appreciate that. Our peaceful protests violent . A. G. Barr no. Rep. Jordan do they destroy businesses . A. G. Barr no. Rep. Jordan to the injure officers . A. G. Barr no. Rep. Jordan today attack civilians . A. G. Barr no. Rep. Jordan to the burned down buildings . A. G. Barr no. Rep. Jordan the video we play, it is really hard to watch. To see that happening in our great country. The start of it was almost laughable where you have the reporter saying, as a building is burning behind him, it is not an unruly protest. He said is its a peaceful burning building. Is defunding the police a rational policy . A. G. Barr no. If anything, i am more concerned that the police be adequately funded. And get more resources. A lot of the things we need to do to address the concerns people have about minneapolis are going to take some time. One of the difficulties in our we have 18,000 Law Enforcement agencies. Most of them are very small. We have to find a way of training and making sure the training is being pushed out. Rep. Jordan is it dangerous to defund the police . A. G. Barr extremely dangerous. Rep. Jordan are you familiar with the letter that the chief of police of seattle since two Business Owners and residents . A. G. Barr yes. She said she cannot protect and do her job. Rep. Jordan that is exactly what she said. The policy they are trying to pass gives officers knowability. To safely intercede. Said, she had given the citizens that she is supposed to serve, i have done my due diligence. This is why it is so dangerous. She said Seattle Police will have an adjusted deployment. That is a nice way of saying, you are on your own. We cannot help you. Heres the kicker. That is how ridiculous this is. I appreciate your work. I yield back. The job that the attorney general is to defend the best interests of the people. You have undermines democracy. Undermine the constitution. The health and safety and wellbeing of the American People. All to benefit donald trump. You testified there is no mechanism for a president to contest an election that has rarely been won by the opponent. What will you do if donald trump loses the election on november 3 but refuses to leave office on january 20 . A. G. Barr if the results are clear, i would leave office. Do you believe there is any basis or legitimacy to Donald Trumps recent claims that he cannot provide an answer as to whether he would leave office . A. G. Barr i am not familiar with these comments. Im not going to give commentary on them. You praised President Trumps Coronavirus Response is superb. Over 150,000 americans have died. More than 4 million americans have been infected. More than 5 million have lost their health care. 1000 Small Businesses have permanently closed. Ofmillion americans are out work. Lets explore. A. G. Barr i disagree with that. That was not a question. Trump falsely claims that the number of coronavirus cases would go to zero in a few days was that superb . A. G. Barr i would have to see the context in which it was said. Here is the context. The cases did not go down to zero. It is over 4 million. In march, President Trump said he takes no responsibility at all for the failure in testing. Was that superb . A. G. Barr it was accurate. The problem with the testing system was a function of president obamas mishandling of the cdc. His efforts to centralize everything in the cdc. A. G. Barr that is inaccurate. That is a myth. Trumpapril, president suggested that the American People inject themselves with bleach. Was that superb . A. G. Barr that is not what i heard. That is exactly what he said. That is what the American People heard. You know it and you cannot defend it. Lets move onto may. On National Nurses day, President Trump falsely called ppp shortages fake news. While nurses and other health Core Health Care professionals resorted to wearing trash bags and ski goggles to protect themselves. Was that superb . I think the administration did a good job of mustering ppe. The National Supply was run down during the obama administration. No, itrr the answer is was not superb. Hadune, President Trump constantly continued to refuse to wear a mask. Despite the Public Health guidelines from his own experts. Was that superb . A. G. Barr which guidance . The earlier guidance that the masks wouldnt work. You know exactly the guidance we are talking about. The cdc in april recommended that American People wear masks. But donald trump had to become for sns poster boy business. The answer is the refusal to in july,s not her President Trump falsely claimed that 99 of covid19 cases are totally harmless. With that superb . A. G. Barr i think essentially what he was saying is that the metallic these are very low. Low. Talities are very are dead. Americans it has been a failure of epic proportions. His response to the coronavirus pandemic has been the worst failure of any president in american history. Havehe American People paid the price. I yield back. Rep. Nadler who seeks recognition . I guess i do. Speak. It is my turn to rep. Nadler the gentleman is recognized. Chairman nadler opened up his statement by saying you can no longer hide behind the legal fiction. That caused me some consternation. You have any idea what he is talking about . A. G. Barr i dont recall that phrase in what context it was in. Who knows what context. He was just kind of rattling on. He was attacking you and your performance in everything you could. The gentlelady from california referred to civilian agents as civilian troops. Intimating that portland was federal agents arrived on the scene. Is like blaming a Fire Department for showing up to put out a fire and then being blamed for the fire. Was there violence and attempts to burn down and vandalize the building and attack civilian employees of the federal government prior to any of the federal agents in portland . A. G. Barr my recollection is our main attempts to reinforce them around the fourth of july. Talk about lafayette square. Mobs disobeying curfews. Flags andd american set fire to st. Johns Episcopal Church near lafayette square. Secret service and park police use of force cleared that up. 51 u. S. Park Police Officers were injured during the perimeter expansion. Do you want to expand on the actions . A. G. Barr for those days there was unprecedented riding right around the white house. Around 90 officers were injured. It has been so bad that it was reported that the secret Service Recommended the president go into shelter. We had a breach of the Treasury Department. St. Johns was on fire. Bricks were thrown at the police repeatedly. They took crowbars to Lafayette Park and through them at the police. Balloons of caustic liquid were thrown at the police. There was total consensus that we could not allow that to happen. That kind of rioting. Perimeter out the one block and push it up toward another street. Being that plan and the park police and secret service have worked out the night before. Put the perimeter further away and give them time to put a nonscalable fence around the northern part of the part. There were enough units in place to perform it. When those things were accomplished, the tactical commander in charge of the park preceded with the movement of pushing the perimeter. This was conceived of long before and did not turn to the nature of the crowd, although i would say the crowd was unruly. While technical considerations were made by the park police, they tried to respond to the situation, to say this had to do with the photo op, and i do not need to compare this to a military operation, but it is a can to sing we invaded the philippines during world war ii so douglas must darker just so Douglas Macarthur could walk the beach. Thank you. Yield. Gentlemen yelled back. Ever. Barr, did you intervene other than to get the president s friend a reduced sentence . A sentencing recommendation . Yeah, did you ever intervene, other than that case . A. G. Barr not that i recall. I cannot really remember my first, if you let me finish my question, 30 years ago i was attorney general. As attorney general now . No, i didnt. Issues come up with a dispute, and i never heard of a dispute in the department. When my prosecutor started to quit because of a mr. Barr, americans from both parties are concerned that there are two systems, one for mr. Trump and his cronies and another for the rest of us. But that can only happen if you enable it. At your confirmation hearing, you are asked, do you believe a president could lawfully issue a pardon in exchange for the recipients promise not to incriminate him . And you said that would be a crime. You are asked, could a president issue a pardon in exchange for the recipients promise to not incriminate him . He responded, no, that would be a crime. Correct . A. G. Barr yes, i said that. You said it would be a crime. And when he said that, that a president swapping a pardon to silence a witness would be a crime, you are promising the American People that if you saw that, you would do something about that. Is that right . A. G. Barr that is right. Are you investigating donald trump for commuting the prison sentence of longtime friend and political advisor roger stone . No. Ra. G. Barr why not . A. G. Barr why should i . Sevenwas convicted on counts during the russian investigation, and he lied. Why would he like . It was said he lied because the truth look bad for donald trump. In trump not give written answers, that he talked to roger stone during a russian influence operation. There is evidence that trump and stone did talk during that time. You would agree that it is a federal agree to lie under oath, right . A. G. Barr yes. A crime for you, a cry for me commensurately for the president of the United States. Is that right . Yes. A donald trump lied to the investigators, would you agree was a crime, donald trump would be in the position to expose the law. Donald trump said roger stone had shown guts on twitter by not testifying against him. Aware of i am not that. Do you read the president s tweets . A. G. Barr no. They say a lot, and i think you should start reading them he said roger stone had guts. This that i had 29 or 30 conversations with trump during the campaign period, and trump knows i was under enormous rush her to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably, but i did not the prosecutors wanted me to play judas, but i did not. Are you familiar with that . A. G. Barr actually, i am not. Why should iu say, investigate the president of the United States if youre not even aware of the facts concerning the president using the commutation power to swap the signs of a witness . A. G. Barr because we require a reliable predicate before we open a criminal investigation. I just gave to you, sir a. G. Barr i do not consider it. I consider it a theory that you have. It sounds like a. G. Barr there would be a lot more people under investigation. The same day roger stone said that, donald trump a. G. Barr the standards of justice were during the tail end of the obama administration. Are you aware that michael come after being released from prison, was asked to not engage with the media, including to write a book . Were you aware that was asked of him . A. G. Barr was i aware . No. Do know if anyone else in your department was aware . A. G. Barr maybe i should tell you what happened. He was furloughed from the bureau of prisons. Tell us what he was asked a. G. Barr i will tell you. Something people do not seem to understand was at his home confinement was not being supervised by the bureau of prisons. Theas being supervised by probation office, which is part of the u. S. Court system. And the u. S. Court system had the requirements of that that u. S. Court system call your actions retaliatory. Do you agree with that . A. G. Barr what i know is what has been said in court before the judge on the record, which is that the individual was then called by the u. S. Court system andng that this guy cohens comfort uncooperative and not agreeing to the positions, and at that point the bureau of prisons person made the decision he was no longer eligible for home confinement. A judge said no other inmate had ever been asked of, in his experience. You told abc news that the president s tweets sometimes make your job impossible. Sir, your job is only impossible if you enable the president s corrupt schemes. I yelled back. Back. Ld. The constitution says the President Shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States except for cases of impeachment. Do you know any other limitations on the president s power to pardon . A. G. Barr no. Has a president exceeded that power . A. G. Barr no. My colleagues implied that in challenging the sentencing imitation of roger stone, you were doing the bidding of the president. He did not want to hear your response. I would. A. G. Barr no, roger stone, i never discussed our sentencing recommendation with anyone outside the department of justice. It was a very condensed period of time. I made the decision that we should not take a position as to the precise sentence but should leave it up to the judge, and we should not affirmatively advocate for seven to nine years, and i made that on monday, the 10th, and that night we filed, the department filed, and it did not reflect what i had cited, so that night i told people we had to fix it first thing in the morning. So we did as soon as i got in. We went forward with a plan to file. At that point i learned about the president s tweets because i do not monitor the president s tweets, and i hesitated because i knew that i would be attacked for doing it. People would argue that i did it because of the tweet. But i felt, at the end of the day, i really had to go forward with our filing because it was the right thing to do, and i am glad the judge agreed with it. Were learning more and more about the targeting prosecution and extortion f Michael Flynn i partisan officials of the fbi. No one has been held accountable for this grotesque abuse of power. Knowing that agents with a political agenda can take anything that someone says, edit it, misrepresent it, prosecute it, and then extort confessions by threatening family members and do so with unity, why would anyone ever want to talk to an fbi agent again . A. G. Barr i have not reached judgments and im not and im not suggesting all the sexy set forth are true, and we have not at this point challenged the actions of the prosecutors in court. The order of business right now is, knowing what we know now, we do not think any of the u. S. Attorneys in the department would have prosecuted this case, partly because of the behavior of the fbi but also because the evidence is not there to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And part of what i am trying to establish is that we will use the same standards for everybody before we indict anybody, and this goes for both sides. We will not prosecute anyone, anybody, unless there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that they have committed a crime. But soteric made up crime, a crime. For more than three years, the most powerful agencies in our government took information ever kitted by agents of a Political Campaign that it was fraudulent, used it to launch an investigation alleging treason against a president ial candidate, then leaked the existence of that investigation in manner that was calculated to affect the outcome of the election. And then used it in a largely successful attempt to obstruct the duly elected president. Are you going to be able to right this wrong before it becomes a precedent for future election interference by corrupt officials in our justice and intelligence agencies . A. G. Barr no, i really cannot predict that. As you know, these matters are being looked into. Covid did delay that action for a while. He is working diligently, and justice is not something you order up on a schedule like ordering a pizza. There is concern that if you were succeeded why someone like Keith Ellison as attorney general, this will become an institutionalized practice in the investigation will simply go away. A. G. Barr i understand your concern. One more thing, the term we keep hearing from the left is, these are mostly peaceful protests mostly peaceful. It seems to me that you either are or you are not. Calling what is happening in our cities mostly peaceful protests is a lot like calling Scot Peterson a mostly faithful husband or al capone a mostly lawabiding businessman. There is a constitutional right to peaceably assemble. Where does that right to stop . A. G. Barr when it becomes violent criminal activity. That is the challenge here. I mean, you have honest people out protesting and demonstrating and that is important First Amendment activity that we believe strongly in and try to protect. Violentparticular opportunists that are involved here get into those crowds and then start engaging in very violent activity and hijack it. A lot of protesters have been telling Law Enforcement, providing information to us, about these people who are not with them, not demonstrators, but theyre coming in, and a lot of demonstrators leave when that happens because they see what is happening themselves. Would you call that balance a myth . The time has expired. Mr. Wu. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, mr. Barr, for being here today. I would like to ask some questions about the regal standard for seizing interesting protesters. Under an amendment, it requires probable cause before you can seize and arrest a protester, correct . A. G. Barr yes. Yes. Ok, and the probable cause has to be particularized to a particular person, so if a protester was merely standing around in a crowd and someone else was suspected of criminal activity, you cannot arrest that peaceful protest are. In other words, there is no such thing as probable cause by mere association, correct . A. G. Barr not strict like, but i do say you do need to particularized probable cause. And if there is no probable cause a. G. Barr if somebody jumped into a getaway car and there are three or four people, that might be enough for probable cause because of the circumstances. If there is no probable cause, you cannot arrest a protester, correct . A. G. Barr i said at the beginning, i rest has to be predicated on probable cause. All right. An arrest can also occur whether or not a federal official says it is interest. For example, a federal officer takes a protester into custody, transports the protester to a federal building, detains the person for questioning, that would constitute interest whether or not the federal official says the person is under arrest, correct . A. G. Barr that would require their intent to review of all the specifics involved. It would not. In a case of over 40 years, the police voted the fourth and 15th amendments without probable cause arrest and they took someone into custody, transported him to a police station, and detained him. The answer is yes. A. G. Barr know, the answer is the Fourth Amendment is ultimately governed by reasonableness, and there cannot be circumstances the question sometimes is when something becomes crime. This is not a trick question, mr. Barr. I am just telling you what the Supreme Court said. Heres the problem, under the standard black letter law which has been in effect over 40 years, but the federal court did was unconstitutional. Federal forces in full combat gear in the dark of night grabbed a protester he was peaceably standing there, forced them into an unmarked van, drove him to a separate location, searched him, detained him, and questioned him. That is what authoritarian regimes do. A. G. Barr i do not think those are the facts. I have not asked the question yet, mr. Barr appeared what the federal officials it was illegal because i did not have probable cause. How do we know that . Because the Deputy Director admitted it on national tv. Deputy director klein said the individual they were questioning was in the crowd and in an area where another individual was aiming a laser at the eyes of officers. That is go by association that is what the Fourth Amendment prohibits. He further stated that the protester was released after federal officials concluded, they did not have what they needed, which shows no probable cause. It appears that the Deputy Director appears to have said there was no probable cause because he essentially justifies the action as saying it was not an arrest. He calls it a simple engagement. I am a former prosecutor and have never heard that term because it is a made up excuse. What these federal officials did was an arrest. They grabbed a peaceful protest van,orced him into the drove him to a location, question him. That is what the Supreme Court prohibited over 40 years ago. A. G. Barr i oversee do not know i have not asked you a question yet. There was an article where federal agents told a reporter that there is no basis for these arrests, saying, at times they grabbed an individual and take them inside the courthouse for questioning before determining that they had no probable cause to cause with any crime. Theyeputy director said coordinate with the u. S. Attorneys office on all these arrests. I urge you to instruct your federal officials to comply with the constitution, and i ask you to investigate these arrests because many are in violation of the Fourth Amendment. We do not live in a police state. We are better than that. I yield back. Back. Tle man yields thank you. Since the representative did not allow you any time to answer his allegations, would you care to answer any of his allegations . A. G. Barr yes. Obviously i do not know particulars of any individual case, but based on my general understanding, what had happened was that when they tried to effectuate arrests of the ringleaders or the people engaged in violence or that they saw with lasers and so forth and they went out, they were immediately swarmed by people in black and there was a lot of violence, so they cannot effectuate the arrests. Informationspecific as the individuals who were seen doing things and identified, they later tried to pick them up when there was less of a risk of this kind of mob response. The fact that if you have someone has aat laser and is using it and later pick them up and he does not have it, it does not mean that there was not probable cause. It means he does not have the laser. The question is, was it reasonable for you to rely on the information that you had in the identification of that individual . In some cases it could be misidentification. In other cases, it could be the person ditched the laser appeared so there is a distinction between whether the person ultimately can be shown to have violated the law and whether there was probable cause for the police to make the oruiry and interrogate them ask them questions, at least. Thank you, mr. Attorney general. I have to tell you, you probably know this, my constituents are scared. Americans are scared. I mean, they watch the tv and see all this rioting, looting going on, statues being torn down. In arizona, where i am from, more guns are being sold than ever. I think there is more new gun owners than ever. And this has to stop. And i think that it is really important, as the saying goes, that in order to solve a problem, the first step is to realize there is a problem. Disturbing, very should i say, that chairman nadler denies that antifa even exists. He said it to a reporter. Floor of the the United States house of representatives that it was a fantasy, a made up fantasy, and then in this very room just recently, congresswoman jayapal who represents the seattle area said, when i was talking about the autonomous zone and the takeover, she said the area is just a a few miles from where i sit right now and there is no takeover. There is no takeover. She also said lies are being spread by my colleagues in the committee, this area is perfectly peaceful. She also said, my republican colleagues keep saying the Seattle Police precinct was taken over by protesters, this is incorrect, incorrect. No one has taken over that building. General, is that your understanding of what happened there . Do you agree with her that there was no takeover . If youre going to say my name, please say it right. Would you agree with that . Also, why do you think these autonomous zones in democratled cities are dangerous to america . A. G. Barr they are dangerous toause they are purporting keep on the outside duly constituted authority of the government. They are also, to make him outrageous because these people who are living now under this autonomous zone have not selected a government. They have selected the duly authorized government of the city and the state. So it is quite an outrage that people would use force to take over an area. But what makes me concern for the country is, this is the first time in my memory that the leaders of one of our great two political parties, the democratic party, are not coming out and condemning mob violence and the attack on federal courts. Know,nt we just say, you violence against federal courts has stopped . Can we hear Something Like that . General, irney totally agree. I support what you are doing, and i support what President Trump is doing for law and order in our country, and i yield back. The committee will stand in recess for five minutes. [indiscernible chatter] the committee will resume with this meeting. Sir, in your Opening Statement, you continued your assisting effort to undermine the finding of russian interference in our election. In march 2019, he sent a letter to the committee mischaracterizing robert koehlers finding that Vladimir Putin interfered in the 2016 president ial election in sweeping and systematic fashion to benefit donald trump. Mr. Robert mueller promptly calledou

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