Transcripts For CSPAN The Contenders Barry Goldwater 20240712

U. S. Mexicocanada trade agreement. Wherever he goes, he speaks out clearly and forcefully on the issues, answers questions and explains exactly where he stands on domestic and Foreign Policy. Everywhere he goes, the people are responding with enthusiasm for this new and different kind of statesmen. Barry goldwater has been constantly on the go. It is a grueling schedule. And, whenever he can, he catches a quick nap, here with his nap daughter peggy. And with his wife, peggy. But soon, it is back to the campaign, where Barry Goldwater is calling for courage and integrity in meeting problems. He is calling for an end to do nothing policies. For progress based on the dynamic principles of the republic. He is calling for a rebirth of individual freedom. We put our reliance upon freedom, upon the Free Enterprise system. We reject, therefore, the ideas that the economic planners in washington, that a group of people sitting in washington can plan what the country is going to make, where it is to be made, the quality of the product, the kind of the product, that wages to be paid, the profit to be made, etcetera temer etcetera. We know that the system which is simpler to what we call socialism has never worked in the history of this earth, and is not working today in countries where it has been tried. Republican president ial candidate Barry Goldwater campaigning in 1964. Cspans the contenders series coming to you tonight from the Goldwater Institute in phoenix, arizona as we look at his challenge to president Lyndon Johnson and his political influence during the second half of the 20th century. We welcome the audience here at the Goldwater Institute and our three guests who will walk us through the life and political career of Barry Goldwater, beginning with Rick Perlstein. He has written for the nation magazine and the london review of books. He is also author of the book nixonland. And the president and ceo of the Goldwater Institute, she previously served as director of policy at the cato institute. Her editorials have appeared in the washingto wall street journal. And he has produced more than 90 documentaries including Barry Goldwater, an american life. When you Rick Perlstein combo lets begin with you. In your book, you said he was a different kind of candidate for a different kind of election year. How so . The thing that made him different was that he was a reluctant president ial candidate. Think of all the people running for president in 2012, you cant say any of them were reluctant. Its a fulltime job, completely consuming. But ever since 1960 when the first group of people tried to draft him and say, we want you to be a president ial candidate he would always say, that is the last thing on my mind. I dont want to run for president. Once he told the chicago tribune, i dont think i have the brains to be president. [laughter] over and over again, they said, we dont care we are going to draft you,. He pretty much was drafted by incredibly vociferous, ashan at followers who raised money and build an organization on their own. Host the assassination of john kennedy, how did that influence his decision to go ahead in 1964 . He was inching towards possibly doing it in the fall of 1963. One of the reasons was because president kennedy had introduced the civil rights now that was actually beginning to civil rights bill that was beginning , to build a strong backlash. There were people talking about pres. Kennedy actually being vulnerable in 1964. Goldwater was close to kennedy , he liked kennedy. Kennedy was assassinated, it is very hard to reconstruct this in our minds now, but it was so harrowing for the American People. People blamed extremism, the kind of vociferous ideological politics that americans did not want to believe was a part of their system and Barry Goldwater immediately lost interest. In fact, it was a month and a half before he ask answer the cl of one more group of people coming to him and begging him saying it was his duty to support the republican cause. Host this book was a manifest of war he was running and the ideology that shaped him. In that piece of film we showed, he freedom and Free Enterprise and the failed socialist experiment that the democrats were pushing in the 1960s right. Eastern for one thing and that was clear that it was freedom. The book today is just as relevant as it was when it was written 50 years ago. Barry would say, circumstances change, principles do not. When he was getting ready to run for office, he said, as i survey the landscape and look around all the different questions that might occur to me, the most important concern that i will have come at the most important question that i will ask myself is, are we maximizing freedom . That was the beginning and the end of his political analysis. Host bill mccune, take us back to 1964 and walk us through Barry Goldwater in the u. S. Senate for two terms, what led him to this point on the National Stage . Really, in a sense, the simplicity of his perspective. Simplicity as compared to more complicated politics. You have to look at Barry Goldwater in the context of his times. His family came here in the 1950s. He grew up, or and in 1909 in dusty Little Phoenix that had 8000 or 9000 people at the time. Life was simpler than it was in the east. Host arizona was not even a state. It was not even a state for two or three more years when he was on. But just his lifestyle, this is the old west at that time. It wasnt new york city and whatever. So you have to look at barry from his family history. From 1909 clear up through world war ii, what was life like here . It is very simple, very unsophisticated. It was black and white. It was right and wrong. It was the old west. It was in the sophisticated east coast. I bring that up because that is what shapes where does he get these views which i call a small and libertarian, the very simple views about right and wrong and things like that, it was the context in which he grew up. You asked me a question but i cant remember the question. Host what shipped his ideology in a 1950s until he ran in 1964 . Principally, it was what i just said, it was simple. And i dont mean that in a negative way, it was sort of simple. There was right and wrong and good and bad and this and that of the other that and the other. You get world war ii, he served in. Remember, world war ii was the major right versus wrong, good versus bad thing. Then we get the cold war with the soviet union. All these things, from goldwaters perspective were pretty black and white especially as compared to todays politics, where you dont know quite who is doing what to whom and saying what. I think that is what does he was the personification good he was the personification of versus bad, right versus wrong, whether you agree with him or not. He was sort of a personification of that. I think that had a lot of appeal by the tens this 1950s by the time the 1950s and 19 tuesday for came about. Host im going to come back later and ask you about your impressions of him. Lets focus on the 1964 race. You had Nelson Rockefeller who spend a lot of money who tried to secure the nomination. Walk us through how these candidates challenged Barry Goldwater and ultimately how he got the nomination. The Republican Party was a very Different Institution that it is now, it was controlled by moderates and even by liberals. The whole ideology of the American Party system was different. Each party had with in it both conservatives and admirals. The Democratic Party had very conservative members in the south and liberals in the north. The Republican Party had an isolationist conservative wing from the midwest, but it also had a liberal wing from the northeast, people like ken keating. What the campaign was about was trying to take over the party from the bottom up, the bottom up being these conservative ideological activists. Often they had their meetings in country clubs and very fancy places. It was presumed that someone like Nelson Rockefeller was the heir apparent for the republican nomination. The idea that a conservative could have won the nomination was absolutely seen as impossible by the pundits, because the pundits then said that america was ensconced within a liberalcenterleft consensus. That Dwight Eisenhower not only embraced the new deal but even expanded it, opening up Something Like the department of health, education, and welfare. Instituting the interstate. Which is a huge federal outlay. It was just presumed that the conservatism of the 1920s, which was seen as something that have gotten us into the depression, was no longer relevant to modern life. Host in your book, you point out the two he primaries that were critical to 1964, oregon, which rockefeller won, in california, which goldwater won. Yes. California was an absolute fascinating, knockdown drag out fight. Barry goldwater had these passionate supporters who would do whatever they want even if Barry Goldwater told them not to do it. These were people from groups like the john birch society. Some were segregationists they. Were far right extremists. They were basically willing to knock on doors until their knuckles were bloody. They were willing to sabotage other campaigns. It was seen as the fight for civilization itself. Because the other candidates, the liberal candidates, Nelson Rockefeller, were seen as these sort of harbingers of the socialism that they believed was destroying civilization itself. It was incredibly i impassioned. Host two years after Richard Nixon lost his governorship, he was still a player in the Republican Party in 1964. And according to your book, he was trying to figure out a way that the party may turn to him if Barry Goldwater. They didnt want either rockefeller or Barry Goldwater. Yes. You mentioned the oregon primary, he actually established a secret boiler room in the placement in which people were hired to make calls to voters and say, wouldnt be a neat idea if Richard Nixon was drafted to be president . [laughter] this was Richard Nixon we are talking about. Someone found out about it, a camera crew showed up. But Richard Nixon was always scheming and planning and hoping that goldwater or rockefeller would knock themselves out. There is a great cartoon which showed rockefeller and goldwater having a shoot out in the middle of an old western town and nixon was rubbing his hands in Richard Nixons political undertaker parlor. [laughter] host we always want to hear from you. I will for lines are open, our phone lines are open. 2027370002 if you live in the pacific time sons. 202737000 one, if you live in the eastern or central time zone. We also will get questions from the audience. It will show you political ads from 1964. You remember this campaign. How did Lyndon Johnson run against Barry Goldwater . What was his tactic . Rottenness. [laughter] johnson ran a very smart campaign. He made Barry Goldwater the issue as opposed to the issues being the issue. Barry goldwater was painted as a crazy person. There were things put out by the Johnson Campaign that some group of psychiatrist in america came out with a statement that larry was mentally ill the some of you will probably remember that, you know, that he was , of course, the famous 10, 9, 8, 7, the nuclear bomb commercial, which only aired one time, but it got a lot of attention. It was designed by bill moyers, actually. It was a totally do the guy in kind of a campaign. It is important to realize the nuclear stuff did not come out of nowhere. In the context of a conservative he made a very strong argument that a craven fear of death had crept into the american psyche. By that he meant that people were so afraid of nuclear war that they didnt want to confront the soviet union. While it was a good reason that people were afraid to confront the soviet union, because allout war with the soviet union would have meant the end of civilization itself. Very goldwater never flinched, and it freaked people out that if we are afraid of going to war with the soviet union, we are on a path to surrender. That was a genuinely frightening notion, especially after the cuban missile crisis, when people actually came within hours, or so they thought, of armageddon itself. So he did have some very unconventional ideas about the necessity of confronting the soviet union headon militarily. Host we will talk about that iconic daisy ad. We have put together some 1964 ads to get a sense of the issues and personality of the campaign. This particular phone only rings in a serious crisis. Keep it in the hands of a man who has proven himself responsible. Vote for president johnson on november 3. The people ask Barry Goldwater. I have a question for mr. Goldwater. I am cynthia. We keep hearing about hot wars, cold wars and brushfire wars. I have a brother and many former classmates now serving in the armed forces. I want to know what he will do to keep us out of war. Let me assure you here now and i have said this in every corner throughout this campaign and i will continue to say it, and goldwatermiller administration will mean once more the proven policy of peace through strength that was the hallmark of the eisenhower years. Eisenhower approach to Foreign Policy is a lot approach. It serve the cause of freedom and avoided the war during the last administration and will do so again. We are the party of preparedness and the party of peace. In your heart, you know he is right. Vote for Barry Goldwater. [explosion] on october 24, 1963 Barry Goldwater said of the nuclear bomb, merely another weapon. Merely another weapon . Vote for president johnson. The stakes are too hive for you to stay home. Swindles juvenile delinquency. [dramatic music] crime. Riots. Here what Barry Goldwater has to say about our lack of moral leadership. The leadership of this nation has a clear and immediate challenge to go to work effectively and go to work immediately to restore proper respect for the law and order in this land and not just prior to election day either. Americas greatness is the greatness of her people. Let this generation then make a new mark for the greatness. Let this generation of america set a standard of responsibility that will inspire the world. In your heart, you know he is right. Vote for Barry Goldwater. Host dorothy, when you look back at those campaigns in 9064, your reaction. You know, a lot of different thoughts come to mind when i see that array including how many of these commercials inspired modernday political commercials. What i takeaway from that is the slogan in your heart, you know he is right here the American People proved that 15 years later when they elected Ronald Reagan who campaigned virtually on an identical platform but with a duo packaging, a little more gloss. Rick commenced this messaging with the soviet union and how goldwater had to much bravado and it was scaring people, that is exactly what reagan ran with and we have history to tell the tale that that was actually the right Public Policy to pursue. I think that speaks a lot about the timing and what was happening socially when you are campaigning, how that influences ultimately whether or not you get through with your ideas. Host two very different approaches. A different tactic with the Goldwater Campaign. When i look at the ads, i look at how atrocious they were. The goldwater team was not very professional, Barry Goldwater being the candidate want to people around him that he felt comfortable with. So he hired friends who want to necessarily political professionals. The johnson commercials were made by a sophisticated advertising agency. They had done the volkswagen ads. I interviewed one of the guys who produced one of the big goldwater adds, which was goldwater talking to eisenhower and it was botched. They got all kinds of telegram saying, i will never give to this campaign against, that was a horrible commercial. The guy has now passed away. He told me, i didnt have a lot of experience with tv. I said, you many had never produced a lot of tv commercials . He said, no, i didnt watch tv. [laughter] that was the Goldwater Campaign. [laughter] host we will get to those calls in a moment. Bill, we will be showing some of the documentary you put together, some of the original work. You worked with Barry Goldwater to put this together for how long . Specifically on the project, probably six months. Host was there one thing you didnt know about their goldwater and his politics that you learned when you for putting this together . His language. [laughter] host elaborate. He had very colorful language. I was going to tell a story but i really have to clean it up. [laughter] i will tell the story, i will clean it up. One of the last times i was with him, i walked into his living room and he was sitting in a barca lounger watching tv. I said, senator, how are you doing . He looked at me and he said here is the clean up part the the fing racoons are sing in my fireplace. [laughter] and i said, what . People dont know, but we have raccoons in the desert in arizona. I didnt even know until that day, actually. And a mother raccoon had climbed up on barrys roof and come down the chimney what do you call that thing in the fireplace the grates, and gave birth to a litter of raccoons. The raccoons were doing their business so to speak in the fireplace. And that was his comment, the fing raccoons are sing in my fireplace. [laughter] host i will now go to martin. If you look at their goldwater in his president ial bid. That evening, martin. Caller good evening. The reason i am calling on veterans day, i happen to be a retired captain from the marine corps from illinois. I like to tell my friends not so much the history of how many times i met Barry Goldwater accidentally, but the fact that i first was influenced, being a democratic young man from illinois where my cousin became a supreme court, justice, head of the state of illinois attorney general, i will not go on, but it was world war ii, texas a m colonel in the army and litter the air force, who influenced me to vote for goldwater. Interestingly enough, i like to say to my texas friends, i am one of the few guys left who remember hearing fdr when i was seven years old give his day of infamy speech. I ran into Barry Goldwater a couple of times in a little restaurant that he loved, titos on connecticut avenue. My boss, who happened to be a civilian world war ii pilot, i introduced Barry Goldwater to my boss. My boss said, why did you introduce me to the senator . I said, he knows another robert t. Stafford. He got such a kick out of this. He said, how long have you known Barry Goldwater . I said i have only met him a couple of times in the restaurant. Anyway, the man was a fantastic individual. On the only time i ever went to the senate when i was a young naval officer was one who was presiding Barry Goldwater. He was truly an interesting and beautiful man. One last memory is, i went to the Patterson Air force base, i happened to be there on business as a civil engineer. My wife and young son were there. I said, why dont you go down to the museum . Well, that was the day when Barry Goldwater and Jimmy Stewart dedicated the first wing of the museum. They both came by and check in shook hands with my wife and son. I wished i had had that experience to meet the other brooded your general Jimmy Stewart. I wanted to share that on veterans day, what a wonderful man he was. Host thank you for the call. He was a pilot, a ham radio operator, took a lot of hobbies and a lot of pictures. It is important for us to recognize on veterans day that actually will some of the powerful rich people, which is what Barry Goldwater was, used their money to get out of the military service. He pulled strings to get out of the military service. He was born in 1909. He took up duty in a very dangerous air route in what they called the aluminum trail because a lot of planes went down. He had this fascination with flying the latest military hardware. One time in 1964, he had this very sensitive meeting with Lyndon Johnson about how they were going to handle the issue of the race riots. And Lyndon Johnson spent hours and preparing. Hoursthere was this memo that was going to guide his incredibly delicate negotiations. The meeting ended up lasting 15 seconds, and then very goldwater was like, when do i get to try this new a11 coming out . It was a landslide for lyndon [laughter] host lets go back to the campaign. It was a landslide for Lyndon Johnson. Why such a disparity . Was Barry Goldwater misunderstood in the 1954 campaign. A lot of reasons. People were terrified of the prospect of nuclear war that he never really backed down from. Lyndon was dishonest on issues like vietnam. He said i will not send american boys thousands of miles away to do what asian boys should do. There was a Bumper Sticker that showed up the next year, and it said that if people voted for Barry Goldwater there would be a war in vietnam. And there was a war in vietnam. His ideological time had not come. And also, i mentioned the absolutely atrocious campaign that he ran. I found a memo, they fired their research staff, and i found a form letter they sent out to Political Science professors in every state that said, dear professor, please send us any books or pamphlets about the political situation in insert state here. This was not a very professional operation. Host were welcoming questions from the audience here. We have one from the front. I have lived in central phoenix for 53 years. As a person who knew Barry Goldwater and worked with him in the community, i knew him to be a man of impeccable integrity and who was dedicated to the proposition of personal responsibility. When he ran for president , it seemed to me from my perspective that the pundits you mentioned earlier went out of their way to print and broadcast atrocious dishonest statements about him. , there is a National Magazine to this day that i dont take because of the things they said about goldwater that were out right my question is, why did untrue. My question is, why did the National Press and so many prominent people at the National Level go out of their way to be so vindictive against a man who, based upon what has a ready been said, was going to lose . A couple of things. First of all, a couple of his ,ollowers were very frightening and you can charge about to very goldwater and say that it was not his fault. He didnt like to distance himself from people who were devoted for him. You also have to understand the context of the time. Fascism and nazism was a living memory for just about every adult. The idea of people getting together with such vituperation, such rage against liberals when very goldwater gave a very famous speech at the 1960 convention in which he said, conservatives, lets grow up. We can take this party back, he said, we need to defeat the democrats while working for the destruction who are working for the destruction of this nation. Passions were very high. Political passions of that magnitude were greatly feared. He was kind of caught up in that in an unfair way. But it had to do with the context of the belief that if peoples darker angels were allowed to give rein within the american political system, we would not be able to control the consequences. This is a time when there is civil rights terrorism in places like mississippi. People are burning down churches, assassinating civil rights workers. People were saying, why is it that a place like mississippi, when all this stuff is going on, in the sheriffs were not arresting these people, was voting 87 for Barry Goldwater. Host of course, the 1964 civil rights bill, will talk about that, he voted against it. We go to george, joining us from manassas, virginia. Welcome to the program, and our look at Barry Goldwater. Caller thank you for doing the show. First of all, my parents volunteered for very goldwater because they believe in the ideals of what the man said. My question to you all is, was he more of a libertarian or conservative . Theres is a difference when you look at it. You are right in it there with that question. [laughter] i think that Barry Goldwater, his book was called the conscience of a conservative, right . He felt that he was a conservative, a true conservative who understood that this nation was founded on the concept of constitutionallylimited government. That was true in all spheres of life, but you couldnt pick and choose where you would have government involvement. If it wasnt in the constitution than it was unconstitutional, than they are for the government should be involved. Today, there are a lot of libertarians who wear that mantle and a lot of conservatives who share that belief as well and we see that coming out in folks in the Tea Party Movement and different candidates for president. I will not be the want to define him as libertarian or conservative. He used the term conservative. I think what he stood for was as close to what the Founding Fathers stood for us any prominent person in our history. Host in this book before the storm, what personality came through from Barry Goldwater, what did you learn about who he was as a person . I think what people have been saying, a guy who shot from the hip and didnt care what people thought about him, and much to his detriment often. Again, people talk about him as an honorable man. I think he was an honorable man. By the same token, i think ideologically, he could be very naive. I mentioned the civil rights terrorism that was going on in mississippi, the fact that people were being shot in cold blood for doing things like helping people registered about he never denounced that. He said that his appeal to the people of the south was i am not going to as an arizonan tell people in mississippi what to do. When civil rights are being that egregiously violated, i think theres a kind of which side are you on question. So i think that his heart was in the right place. He believed he was doing the right thing. But i think he had a certain myopia when it came to a real moral ordeal that he avoided at the time. Host go ahead. I want to talk about the libertarian capital l, small l, conservative you have to look at goldwater as in the context of his time. At that moment in time, he had never heard of the word libertarian. That wasnt even a word. I call him a small l libertarian, because he basically believed in freedom of choice. As he came later in his career after politics, he was outspoken in favor of gay rights, a womans right to choose, all sorts of things like that. Some of my friends would say, very gutsy. He became a big liberal in the end. He changed. He didnt change. His philosophy was always it is up to you as an individual to have the right to decide, whether it is gay rights or abortion rights or labor unions the whole thing from the 1950s where he was totally misunderstood, i might note. He was a small l libertarian. Today we have, you know, all sorts of politicians and president ial hopefuls running around talking about libertarian this and libertarian that. You have to keep it in the context of the time. Host you did a perfect job setting up this next piece of video we want to share with audience. To give you a sense of the personality and. The style of their goldwater. [video clip] he talks so fast. You know, sitting there trying to listen to you reminds me of trying to read Playboy Magazine with my wife turning the pages. [laughter] i happen to think i am in a pretty tough race. I am spending the money that i legally can. Thats the answer. In fact, its a stupid question, if you dont mind my saying so. [shouting] and you think i will redirect you. I never said that airplane wouldnt fly. You said you wouldnt i didnt. [laughter] [applause] people all of the country keep talking about legalizing gambling. And i thought we already had it. It is called election day. [laughter] [applause] i now realize what it takes to become the president. Apparently it helps to have a brother who sits at the gas station drinking beer all day. [laughter] campaigning in that a thin election in 1964 [laughter] i should have told everyone that dean was my brother. [laughter] host Rick Perlstein, you want to jump in early to bill mcewens point . He also in 1964 election, pioneered what would become social conservatism. He ended up going into a different direction personally but he give a very sharp speech about the moral decay of the nation at the mormon tabernacle in salt lake city. But he also at the end of his life used some of that salty language that we need to censor when he referred to the christian right. Jerry falwell was a bete noir of his. Jerry falwell said in 1981 that all good christians should be very concerned about sandra day oconnor. If i may, he said all good christians should kick Jerry Falwell in the ass. [laughter] host paul, youre on. Thanks for waiting. Caller thank you. I was curious to know what your panel thinks. Had goldwater gotten elected in 1954, how would he have handled vietnam differently than Lyndon Johnson did . Would he have escalated the war as lbj did, or would he have seen the conflict more as a civil war between the north and South Vietnamese . Host thanks for the question. Whether he would have been successful or not, i dont know. I was a vet generation. The vietnam war under Lyndon Johnson was gradualism we will tie in the screw and eventually they will give up. Year, right. I think if barry had been president i think he would have come in with what later became the colin powell doctrine. In my documentary he even says if youre going to go to war, you have to go to war with the attitude that you want to win it in the next hour. That was his attitude. Then he said, we lost the war in vietnam for one reason. The politicians tried to run the war. In his quote. And politicians dont know their ass from a hot rock about running a war. That was his quote. And i think he would have taken a far more aggressive approach to it as compared to johnsons gradualism, which dragged out almost as long as our current wars. Host let me take his. 1 step further, what kind of president would he have in . Very would have been something we dont see too often today, he would have been a very honest president. I think he would have been very candid as he was his whole life. That was the way he campaigned, the way he sat in office, the way he was after office. I think the candor is something that people loved about Barry Goldwater. It is one of the reasons that so many people salt out Barry Goldwater even after salso ught out goldwater even after he was in office, and he was so wellrespected and liked by so many people. Because you knew with Barry Goldwater where you stood. He always put his principles first. He kind of had a tenure to sometimes 10 messaging and what people might think, and he put principles before partisanship, before party, before politics. Its hard to say whether he would have been able to work with congress that way. Its an exercise that i would have liked to have seen. Host we are in week 10 of cspans the contenders series. We are in phoenix, arizona. We have an audience here as well. We have a question right up front. Thank you. Kevin lane. I recall barry was interviewed in the 1980s when russia had just gone into afghanistan. I think this underscores the wisdom and how pressing he was in those issues. His quote was, if he had been in those hills, a right minded goat would not wander into those hills. He forecasted that russia would lose. Obviously, were quite bogged down in afghanistan. So my question to the panel is maybe some other examples of his , wisdom in his life as far as being ahead of his time. Host you are shaking your head. I think that is a great question and goes back to what kind of a president would he have been, and one of the things we know he would have done differently is he would not have vastly expanded the welfare state in america. He was fighting against that. He said there were all kinds of federal programs that were unconstitutional that needed to be repealed. He was unabashed about that. He certainly did not agree with the levels of taxation that we had been, let alone that we had then, let alone the levels of taxation we have now. He was very against the type of progressive taxation that was put into place and has become more and more predominant. He felt like taxation should be minimal and fair per person, so if you give 10 , i give 10 . Rick gives 10 . Not rick is a wealthy so he is going to pay 90 and youre only going to pay for you are not going to pay anything. Those are some major differences. Also, since that time, and certainly Lyndon Johnson worked on this as well, but this vast extension of government into all of these social arenas including education, for which there is no constitutional authority, all those things are things that Barry Goldwater would have fought hard against. Host lets go back to where your book begins. Talk about his influence here in arizona as he tries to build the Republican Party in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It is a democratic state. When he ran for the senate in 1952, i think there were 92 members of the lower house, and two of them were democratic. He came from a republican family. His mom was a midwesterner and she was republican. More republicans came after world war ii for the climate and also for the new Defense Industries that were opening up in arizona. Host and before he entered politics, he did what . He was an executive at the Family Department store. Interestingly enough, we talk about him being the straight shooting guys, he was actually the marketing guy for the department store. A guy named eugene polya moved to phoenix, a newspaper publisher, actually dan quayles fatherinlaw. He wanted to help build the Republican Party and also build a nonpartisan government to clean up what was actually a corrupt town. Barry goldwater was involved in both. In 1950, he was the Campaign Manager for a guy named howard pyle who run for governor. Being Barry Goldwater, he flew howard pyle around the state in his plane. He would descend like a bronze god to these little towns and people would say wow, which ones the candidate . But heres the thing. When he ran for senate, he decided that he would run for senate by building the Republican Party. So he recruited people for every office in the state. One quick point, someone said, why are you qualified to run for senate in arizona . He was such a First Citizen of arizona, this was his answer. He said i can call 10,000 people in the state by their first name. He built the Republican Party in arizona. Host you remember going to the Goldwater Department store. Correct. When i first came to arizona in 1970, i worked for the old adams hotel downtown. I bought a bathing suit at the Goldwater Department store on central avenue. And at the time, you talk about him being in marketing they gave you with every purchase, a little vial of water which had gold flakes in it, and everybody that had flown in from texas to buy that hotel, when i went back to the hotel, all rent out i got a bathing suit so they could get a vial of water with old flicks in it. [laughter] so he was really good at marketing. I want to comment about the 552 election. There he ran against artist mcfarland, the majority leader of the u. S. Senate at the time. Barry had supported macfarland in election, head raised money for him and all that. Barry didnt like or was upset with harry truman, which is ironic today because what former president was barry most like . Harry truman. Barry told me many times, he said, when i run for president , i knew i didnt have a chance in all morning. He didnt think he would have a chance of winning that 1952 senate race at all. Maybe he was building a Republican Party he had been in the city council for two years and then decided to run against harry truman in 1952, but he didnt. He was not some big political organizer who said, lets held a Republican Party here it was natural, but it wasnt like he had some big plan to do that, he was just running and didnt think he had a chance in hell of winning. Host we came across girly film of senator Barry Goldwater in 1952 after he was elected to the senate that before coming to washington, d. C. Lets take a look. [video clip] speaking of washington, where youre going, there is a great deal of talk on the part of the republicans during the campaign about communism in washington and the mess in washington. Do you anticipate finding anything like that when you take your seat in the senate . Well, i dont know. I cant say. I think there must be common is in washington, but i would hate to stand up and say there is without knowing more about it. Let me put it this way, is there any fear or concern about communism and about the so called mess in washington among the people who voted for you out in arizona . I think the fear of communism is one of the underlying reasons for the success of the Republican Party in this election, all over the country. Now that the Republican Party is in, do you think there will be any letting down of this concern, any complacency on the part of the people who voted for you . I think it has a ready happened. I am amazed to walk around new york to find in my own communities well, general eisenhower has been elected. The new deal has been thrown out. We can go back to our work the same as usual. And as always happens in politics, the man who benefits the most from Good Government goes on with the least interest in it, and that is mr. Average citizen. Are you going to do anything to point out the need for continued concern over the situation in washington . I will never be quiet about it. Host from 1952, never be quiet. That became his mantra as a Senate Candidate in who helped 1964. That became his mentor as a senator and candidate in a 1964. Who helped him win the 1952 race . He had a very slick operator, a name familiar to arizona in steven shadic. He wasnt necessarily the most savory guy. He once wrote a book on how to win an election for your car he said i adopted the tactics of mao zedong. He said that if the situation is propitious, you can get millions of people to vote for someone who has the absolute opposite ideology that they do. So he was a very tough Campaign Manager. Host we have a question in the audience. Please introduce yourself and go ahead. Good evening. My name is richard muse are. I was 16 months old when we moved to arizona, so i claim to be a native. It was a pleasure to hear the information about senator goldwater from so many experts. When i was in the second grade, i made a gentleman named bill mcewen, and we have been friends since then. In 1964, i was a lowly specialist fourth class in the army in fort benning, georgia. I wasnt old enough to vote at that time because arizona was 21 and i was only 20. When i listened to the senator discuss using low yield Nuclear Weapons in vietnam, it made sense to me as a military person and it made sense to a lot of my fellow soldiers at the same time. The point that the Johnson Campaign exaggerated, the impact of using these huge hiroshimanagasaki bombs was a total exaggeration. He was on air force man. He knew what lowyield meant and what it would do. My question is, what was wrong with the term lowyield, that i believe i only heard once or twice. Host rick, you wrote about that in the book. I actually talked to wa one f the physicists who designed low yield Nuclear Weapons, and he said it is absolutely insane to believe you could contain the explosions from those weapons. So i am not so sure that esther. Can i come so i am not so sure that is true. Can i comment . He and i grew up in the same neighborhood, 20 fifth drive, north of thomas road. In about 19508054, my father would wake me and my brothers up at 4 00 in the morning on a couple of occasions. We would go up onto the roof of our house and sit facing north. My dad had his watch and he would tell us, one minute, 30 seconds and we would see Nuclear Atomic bombs explode at the test sites aboveground. Nuclear bombs exploded at the test sites in nevada which was 300 miles away. Four or five times, i am one of the few people alive today who has ever seen a nuclear bomb explode. Hopefully nobody else ever will again. This was a ritual, we would get up and watch the Nuclear Bombs going off in nevada. The point is i thought, first off, where are we dropping Nuclear Bombs on japan, i thought they were on our side. [laughter] but realizing whether it was 250 or 300 miles away to the test sites, i was up there thinking, my god. It would light up it was like summer lightning if you know what i mean. The flash of the light would stay in the air longer than the summer lightning and just, wow, that is 300 miles away. Think about that. That kind of thing is what contributes to the great fear of the soviet union and nuclear war. Host let me put a domestic issue on the table, organized labor and the legislative record that senator goldwater had in the 1950s. Extremely important in goldwaters rise. Arizona after the act in 1947 became the first right to work state. His closest friend and adviser was a labor lawyer from a big mining company. He argued before the supreme court. So the idea that fighting labor power was essential to the conservative politics was absolutely part of what very goldwater was all about. And he basically rose to National Prominence in the late 1950s on the two wings. The first was, he gave a speech attacking Dwight Eisenhower for a big budget, which he called squander bust spending and the siren song of socialism. The other was there was a big labor hearing in the late 1950s run by senator mcclellan. It was meant to take on jimmy hoffas corruption. And Barry Goldwater caps on interrupting. He would say things like, i would rather have jimmy hoffa stealing my money than walter rutha stealing my freedom. Walter rutha was head of the united auto workers, who had basically pioneered things like the automatic costofliving increase. He was fighting to make the operations of corporations more transparent. He was the most politically aggressive labor leaders in history. By takings taking on someone like walter reuther, businessman flocked to Barry Goldwater. These businessmen where the people who ended up organizing the group that under Barry Goldwaters knows nose, pursed foot him first put him forward as a president ial candidate. My experience with interviewing Barry Goldwater, he wasnt, im convinced he wasnt against unions. The thing about the small l libertarian thing, he said i think a man should be able to join a union or not join a union, it is their personal choice. He was most vociferous about corruption in the unions. He really didnt like, what you call it, the closed shop where you had to join the union in order to have a job. He liked weak unions. That is your view. I think it is correct. He believed that unions were an expression of human freedom. If you joined them voluntarily. He believed in freedom of association, he thought that was great if you wanted to join. What he didnt believe in is what unionism has become, which is compulsory, forced membership. That is something he opposed. You have a situation today where they are trying to take away the right to vote by secret ballot when you are forming a union. That was something he opposed. There was the issue of, what was his other big issue on right to work. Right, they were making membership compulsory and will it was a condition of employment. He said that his aunt that occult everything we believe in. He fought to have right to work laws but didnt oppose the idea of associating with unions. He opposed what unions have become, forcing people to do things against their will, completely contrary to everything Barry Goldwater believe. Marvin has been waiting period in los angeles, good evening. Thank you for the program. Im wondering if Barry Goldwater were alive today, with his lifespan of points of view, could he get the nomination of the Republican Party . That is the first part of my question. Number two, based on the extreme right wing state of some leaders in arizona politics, like in the election last tuesday, where jerry lewis defeated a leader in the senate, how would Barry Goldwater have stood in the ideas of the current Republican Party the state of arizona . Thank you ray much. Very much. Two points. Could Barry Goldwater get the nomination today . No, he would have been vetoed by the christian right. Im looking at these quotes, he said in 1981, can anyone look at the carnage in iran of the bloodshed in Northern Ireland and the bombs in lebanon and question the dangers of injecting religion into the affairs of state . He believed firmly that people who enter politics from a religious motivation are so impassioned and so impervious to compromise that it made the give necessary for politics impossible. Which is ironic because in 1964, expression extremism and moderation of pursuit of justice is no virtue, that is what he was accused of. He came to an extremely passionate notion he didnt want Pat Robertson to run for president. He thought that was a violation of separation of church and state. Let me begin with the first chapter of conscience of a conservative. He said, i have been much concerned that so many people today with concerned instincts feel compelled to apologize for that. He says, Vice President nixon at the time and president Dwight Eisenhower. This book, conscience of a conservative, to this day remains the best statement of what it means to be a conservative in this country. He is so clear, and i think early on you talked about, you used the word simple and i think for me, i was thinking principled. That is what it was. It wasnt like, simplicity or simpleton, it was clean. It was clear, and those principles are beautifully outlined in that book. It is just as good of a read today as it was back in the day. As a writer i have to give credit to the guy who wrote the book, a fellow named brent. Barry goldwater might have read it, but he definitely wasnt involved in the production of the book, which is a fascinating story i tell in my book. Lets go to the 1960 convention. He spoke to the delegates at the Republican Convention, which nominated Vice President Richard Nixon. As an american who loves his republic and as a member of the senate, i am committed to the republican philosophy and to the republican candidates. It is my belief that the people of this land will return a Republican Administration to office in 1960, and i shall work to that and. To that end. That is mr. Goldwater. But i might suggest in all seriousness that you and i will not have discharged our responsibility unless we also return an effective republican congress. I would not imply that our party is the repository of all virtue, that only republicans can see the truth and only republicans deserve noble motives. But i must insist that those in control of the Democrat Party drew their platforms, have announced their total commitment to what i regard as a lopsided concept of man, which puts americans in a shameful condition of everlasting dependence upon the state. [applause] i have visited the people in the cities and towns and states of our nation, and i can tell you that the men and women of america face the future with courage. They are eager to accept their responsibilities. They are determined to work and sacrifice to defend our freedom. It is our task as delegates to this 1960 Republican Convention to make certain the American Voter is provided with an opportunity to make a meaningful choice between the two philosophies competing today for acceptance in our world. The philosophy of the summit or the philosophy of the whole man. As you watch Barry Goldwater in 1960, how did that set the stage for his date in 1964 . It said red meat to the conservative movement. He ended his speech saying conservatives, grow up, lets get to work. That is i think the last line of his whole speech there. He was, he was not who is that republican guy who ran campaigns the last few years . Karl rove . Yes, he wasnt karl rove. But he had feelings, lets get to work, lets take this back, lets do something for conservatives. He had no use for nixon, especially later. And probably no use for rockefeller other than they were probably friendly. But ideologically, no use for rockefeller. He said lets get to work, lets do this. Lets go to ed in new jersey. Good evening. Caller i wrote my senior thesis on the press treatment of the Goldwater Campaign and i had the good fortune to spend a day interviewing Theodore Whyte at his home in manhattan. He had vivid memories of the weeks he spent on the campaign trail with goldwater in preparation for the 1964 installment in his famous series, the making of the president. He told me he had come away from the tour with great admiration for goldwater and contempt for the liberal media he was part of and he thought was doing so much to demonize goldwater and distort or ignore the case that goldwater was trying to present to the people. He told me goldwater tried earnestly to lecture the people about the done the dangers of concentrating power in washington and what the limits of federal involvement in Race Relations should be, especially in the socalled black accommodations, the issue that led to his opposition to the civil rights bill. Whyte said when goldwater came to fear that discussing civil rights issues further on the campaign trail might worsen racial tensions, he met with president johnson and they agreed to take those issues out of their campaigns. Whyte said this cost goldwater votes among workingclass whites and was one of the self the most selfless acts he had ever seen a politician engage in. One thing he told me, he had been dismayed, he said his liberal media friends received him as though he was a jew just escaped from a nazi death camp. He insisted what a good man and worthy candidate goldwater was. Thought you would want to know. Host thank you for the call. Sharing your story. It is interesting on the civil rights issue, i think barr goty a bum rap from the media and continues to do so today, when you hear people talk about his civil rights record and they will talk about how he didnt vote for the 1964 act or he didnt speak out enough. So really, he must not have had that in his heart. That couldnt have been further from the truth about who barry was. In the Goldwater Department store they integrated the store before anybody else had done that. He had a colorblind heart. Anybody you meet will tell you that. Anybody who met barry would tell you that. One of the greatest stories that i love about, that relates to this is, we dont know if it is true, i was talking to his son and he said i dont know if it is apocryphal or true but the way it goes is, he went to a fancy golf course in bel air and wanted to play a round of golf. They said, Barry Goldwater, you cant play here because you are jewish. He responded by saying, you know, i am only half jewish. Do you think i can play nine holes . Let me Say Something about civil rights real quick. Barry goldwater and Harry Rosensweig as city councilmembers integrated the airport in phoenix, which had been segregated before. After world war ii, the department of defense asked Barry Goldwater to organize the Arizona Air National guard, which hadnt existed before. He said i will do it on one condition, that it is racially integrated, and they gave in the senate, he voted for civil rights legislation consistently through the 1950s and into the early 1960s. The only one he voted against was that final one. He voted against it for one reason and that was because of a in there that called the misses murphy law, which would have said that if mrs. Murphy rents out her Spare Bedroom she couldnt discriminate. He has a history of procivil rights activity. Let me ask about the relationship between goldwater and kennedy. They came to the senate together. They had affection for each other. When Barry Goldwater was rising as a national star, he was put compared to kennedy, this charismatic guy. There is a famous story they talked about campaigning together, riding the same campaign plane, debating each other, lincoln and douglas style. This was taken as a testament of this more civil time. I suspect john f. Kennedy was thinking cynically and thought if i can get this guy on a platform and force him to mouth his what were then unpopular views, i can wipe the floor with him. Im not sure it was a magnanimous act for kennedy. History changed in dallas in 1960 three following the assassination of president kennedy. Senator goldwater said this. Well, he was a very decent fellow. He was a gentleman. He is kind of an antagonist the kind event agonist i have always enjoyed. He would fight for his points and his principles, but there was never anything personal about it. I imagine i have debated the president more on the floor of the senate than any other man, and it never affected our friendship. We had rela rather volatile arguments in committee and it never affected our friendship. That is the kind of man you respect, the kind of man you like to work within politics. After the assassination and before he entered the race in 1964, however was he about running . He was ambivalent but leaning towards running. One of the reasons he was so ambivalent after the assassination was because he knew the public would be so longing for civility and the idea of having three president s within one year would be too much for people to bear. A question in the room. I had the good fortune to be involved in the formation of the Goldwater Institute and as a result of that, i want to make a comment and a question. One of senator goldwaters unique features was, he never sought the bliss city. That made him unusual for a politician. When we tried to form the organization, even with the persuasion of senator kyle and others, he was reluctant. After we got going, we wanted to have an award in his name and he was reluctant again to step forward and have the award named after him. He is unusual in many ways. My question, is there anybody to compare him with . We think of Ronald Reagan, maybe somebody like bob taft. Is there anybody we can compare Barry Goldwater to . Not alive today. I would say there are two people. Ron paul and Ronald Reagan. I think he compares to ron paul in that ron paul is a very straightforward speaker who doesnt really care what the press thinks, he speaks from his heart about his ideas. It is his downfall. It was part of barrys downfall. Also, reaganlike in that the core of his ideas that barry ran on, reagan later implemented. Reagan had a smoother style. He was mr. Hollywood. Not only did he not have a 10 year but he made people laugh and had wonderful laugh. He ran on the same ideas as goldwater and brought over, he won in a landslide. When rick says people didnt like barrys ideas or werent ready for them, i dont really think that is a very fair assessment. I think the assassination played a key role at that time. The poor messaging barry did was a factor, but i dont think it was the ideas. I think it was the timing and the way the ideas were sold. Can i speak to someone . I think Jan Schakowsky the liberal congresswoman from illinois is forthright and principled. Bruce is joining us from california. Welcome to the contenders. Go ahead. Thanks for the program. It is great. I am a liberal who has only voted for one republican in my life and that was Barry Goldwater. I guess my attitude at the time, kennedy was such a young, new generation, articulate, and johnson seemed to be so much the old politics. Two things i wanted to mention. A choice, not an echo, i thought was one of his big themes. The other point i wanted to make was, there was a book called nontheyre called treason that came out about the same time edit was the john birch society, we had the birchers back then in the birther is now. Barry never separated him from himself from that group. Before the election reagan came on to boost goldwaters candidacy, and a lot of the comments afterwards was, maybe we got the wrong man. Thanks for the call. We will talk about reagan in about 20 minutes and we will show a portion of what he spoke towards the end of the 1964 campaign. None there call it treason argued that setbacks were because there were secret communists in the government. 20 million copies of the book were circulated. Rich businessman would buy up thousands of copies and hand them out everywhere. He is right, Barry Goldwater didnt denounce this stuff. He would rationalize it by saying people know that there was something wrong out there and this is pushing in the right direction, and may be i disagree with it, but he never denounced the john birch society. He said some of my best friends in phoenix are part of it. I think that was one of his achilles heels. He really did, i think he humored extremists. He has been quoted often, and you said earlier, expert extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. That came from the 1964 Republican Convention. We want to show you that but put it in context of what he said before and after. Here is Barry Goldwater accepting the republican nomination. Anyone who joins us in all sincerity, we welcome. [applause] those who do not care for our cause, we do not expect to enter our ranks in any case. [applause] and let our republicanism so focused and so dedicated not be made futile by unthinking and stupid labels. [applause] i would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. [applause] the duty of the very system, we republicans are pledged to restore and revitalize the beauty of this federal system of ours is in its reconciliation of diversity with unity. We must not see malice in honest differences of opinion, and no matter how great, so long as they are not inconsistent with the pledges we have given to each other in and through our constitution. [applause] our republican cause how did that resonate among the republican electorate and the voters at large . Richard nixon wrote in his memoirs that at that moment when he heard him say extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, he liberally literally felt sick to his stomach. That is because they have an incredibly divisive convention. Goldwater won the most delegates because they organized it so well. His grassroots insurgency. But many people in the party felt they had stolen the party, that moderation, the Republican Party was moderate and a republican, a conservative had one by crook. Had won by hook and by crook. Your role in the speech was to bind the wounds, but instead he seems to be pushing in peoples faces his acceptance of extremism, which in context meant things like the john birch society, the southern segregationists changing their democratic affiliation to republican affiliation. So the public itself also in the context of the kennedy assassination, in which the idea that the bottom had dropped out of americas civility and people are longing so much for normalcy, it really seemed like something that was frightening, that was strange, that was perverse, and his numbers went way down. A week after that, there was a terrible riot in harlem, so it increased peoples sense that somehow, Barry Goldwater was associated with these frightening forces and american life. When people were rioting in harlem, people said things like, well, they are shooting black people. This goldwater stuff is happening. It shows the paranoia, unfairly surely, that surrounded Barry Goldwater in this atmosphere in which people really felt that the springs were being loosed in americas consensus. Matthew joins us in miami. Good evening. Welcome to the program. Thank you for taking my call. In 1986, Congress Passed a scholarship named after Barry Goldwater, and i dont know if the iron he ever escaped them based on what i have heard from the panel about Barry Goldwaters ideology, that a federal scholarship would go to students. The scholarship, the story of goldwater filibustering, if this is not the case, i would like to hear comments on his views on Public Education and if there is anything known about his feelings about the congress awarding people this scholarship. Thank you. I hadnt heard that and that is something i would like to learn more about. Certainly, it would be ironic if true, and he looked at the constitution, he didnt see any role in their given to the federal government to be involved in education. He spoke out against federal involvement in education. He said, i dont want the government to educate my children. I dont want the State Government to educate my children. I want to educate my children. I think if we can bring this up to modern times, what is interesting, and i think it is a great tribute to goldwater, is that arizona is one of the leading states in offering choices to parents, School Choice so people arent forced to go into government schools but can use their tax money and take that to private schools or use online tutoring. I think barry would have loved that and been crazy about it because this is something he believed, look, at bottom he believed in freedom. Nothing is more fundamental than being able to direct how your children are educated. So certainly, i would love, do you know if the scholarship part is true . I have heard something or i remember just after the senator died, there was something about Congress Passed something in science and technology in his name. I cant remember what it was. Whether it is a scholarship thing or it is vague in my mind. You cant talk about Barry Goldwater and 1964 without bringing up the ad that aired once, on september 7, 1964, labor day monday, it aired on nbc, cbs and abc used it as subsequent stories and it is infamously known as the daisy ad. One, 2, 3, four, five, seven, six, eight, nine, nine. 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Zero. These are the stakes to make a world in which all of gods children can live or go into the dark. We must either love each other, or we must die. Vote for president johnson on november 3. The stakes are too high for you to stay home. 50 years later, they are still talking about this ad. Why . Well, it was devastating at the time. But he never mentioned Barry Goldwaters name. He didnt need to. Keep in mind, the whole campaign up to that point focused, the Johnson Campaign, focused on the word extremism. Extremist, extremist, over and over again. This was just another little piece of, goldwater is an extremist. He is going to get us into nuclear wars. I want us to tell you something about that ad. That was designed by Tony Schwartz bill moyers. Thats not true. That is absurd. Go ahead. Let me finish. Barry goldwater, in my show, was on camera and he said, bill moyers was behind that. He said i tried later, years later, afterwards, to talk to bill moyers about it because barry thought it was pretty rotten. I tried to talk to bill moyers and bill moyers never returned my phone call. Susan, his second wife, told me later, she said, you know, bill moyers was in town for something not related to politics and she had occasion to talk to him and bill moyers it was a shame, i tra hold of barry and talk about that a lot of times, but we could never eat up. Susan was implying that was a baloney. I can say that after reading through every memo that bill moyer had nothing to do with creating that ad. He was involved in the campaign and wrote memos about the ad and was involved in the media strategy, but the idea that he created the ad question here. The subtitle for your book is the unmaking of a consensus, and i am interested what makes a consensus . Did we make anyone a new one . I believe consensus should appear in quoatation marks. The eisenhower accepting the new deal of the basic template, eisenhower saying that anyone who with Social Security would never live another political day , this idea that i might even read a classic statement about how the american consensus was unthought of at the time. But in the magazine partisan review, in america, there are no basic disagreements between intellectual bankers, trade unionists, artists, businessmen, politicians to name a few, within the economic classes, there are no real critics, no new ideas, no fundamental opinions of opinion. The idea that the western world had converged on the idea of the welfare state was just seen as permanent. What is so fascinating to me is almost immediately, the 1960s gives light to that notion. Americans are at each others throats. That was the american consensus. In 1964, we begin to see these pictures come apart and Barry Goldwater is absolutely a central figure in that. If you could in just a minute, the civil rights in the 19 64 vote, Barry Goldwater voted against it and it became one of the issues in his campaign. A couple of fascinating points about that. We talk about the Lyndon Johnson television commercial. Excoriating Barry Goldwater for voting against it, they did not run those commercials. To idea of a backlash and civil rights was already present, and in california in the book, i publish a headline in the new york times. People were terrified that maybe people would vote for Barry Goldwater because they were so terrified of blacks having civil rights. In california, on the same day that legend johnson that Lyndon Johnson won, there was a vote on a referendum on open housing. Californians voted to reject the idea of open housing, to reject a law that said that you could not terminate on the basis of race. The idea of a backlash against civil rights was latent at the time and became a most explosive issue in politics in the years to come. When you look at what happened in 1952 when eisenhower won, the south, and the impact that the vote had 19 six he for, what is the difference . Had in 1964, what is the difference . That was the carpetbaggers. If you voted for the republicans, they would monopolize the black vote and there were these panics. And the shift began in 1964. Five Southern States ordered for goldwater. 87 of mississippi voted for goldwater. When Lyndon Johnson signed the civil rights bill, he said that he was signing away the south for a generation. That was one of the most profound hinges in the electoral alignment of the United States. The south now is a primarily republican region and that is because conservatives, led by Barry Goldwater, decided to retreat from the idea of the federal government advancing rights for africanamericans. Two years after ge ended the program that before reagan became governor of california, he was invite involved in that campaign. We have a portion of that speech titled a time for choosing. Late in the campaign. [video clip] i think it is time to ask ourselves if we know the freedoms that were intended by our Founding Fathers. Friends of mine were talking to a cuban refugee, a businessman who would escape from castro. One of my friends said we do not know how lucky we are. The cuban said, how lucky you are . I have some place to escape to. And in that sentence, he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here there is no place to escape to. Its is the last stand on earth. This is the last stand on earth. It is the most unique idea and all the long history of mans relation to man. You and i have a raven rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve this or sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness. We will keep in mind and remember that Barry Goldwater has faith in us. He has faith that you and i have the ability and dignity and the right to make our own decisions and to determine our own destiny. Thank you very much. [applause] from october 22, 1964, the history behind that speech. When did he deliver it . I do not know where. Why did he deliver it . Ok, heres why. Barry himself he was a great extemporaneous speaker. He was the medic, wonderful. But he did not like prepared, written speeches. Somebody wrote that speech for barry and submitted it to him in my source is both Bob Goldwater and other historian types. They wrote it and gave it to barry, and he said this is a great speech, but i am not good at giving written speeches. Ronnie can do it a lot better. They sent it over to ronald to deliver it. Reagan did it and that was the beginning of reagan becoming president with that speech that was written for barry. Which also led california executives to coach him to run for governor. He had given similar speeches through the early 60s and the people who had been in charge of handling the money for goldwaters Television Account were fed up with the tv commercials that they said if you do not let us spend at the hallway, we will spend it the way we want to. We are going to sequester this money. They played hardball and that is how they got Ronald Reagan on the air. After he gave that speech, the telegrams poured in for the campaign and money poured in to the campaign and people started talking about Ronald Reagan as a new editorial possibility. David broder said it was the best debut that he had heard of since 1996 1896. Was it a close relationship or more of an acquaintance . Ronald reagan, his fatherinlaw was a wealthy chicago physician who knew the goldwaters. There is a fascinating soap opera that the people around Barry Goldwater were running his campaign were called the arizona mafia, did not want Ronald Reagan to get the speech. There is a little different because he had said things about Social Security that goldwater had gotten in trouble for earlier in the year, and basically Ronald Reagan said to goldwater, why dont you listen to it and if you object to it, we will opt to run it. Goldwater heard it and said i do not know what the fuss is about and the rest is history. Next we will go to dan from indiana, good evening. Good evening, sir. You just earning much answered my question. I was wondering what esther goldwater thought about the way that Ronald Reagan gave the speech that night and also what mr. Goldwater thought about the way that Ronald Reagan gave the speech that night and also did they ever have any difference in opinion as far as conservatism or where they pretty much a in accord . I thank you for taking my question. Late in 1963, he was shut out by the head of the American Enterprise institute, it was paul over politics power politics. Buckley on several occasions did not think that goldwater would make a good president. That he was not ready, not smart enough. That now, reagans relationship with buckley was complicated. The panama canal, they had a famous debate in which buckley argued that the canal was a good day. Ronald reagan had basically run his campaign on the idea that it was a bad thing. There are these personality clashes. And can i recommend a great book for this questioner. Buckley published a book called flying high. It is a book about Barry Goldwater. One of the best books about very goldwater. If that is your interest, i strongly recommended. I strongly recommend it. Two quick questions. First, i wondered whether by engaging more directly over the issue of vietnam in 19 city for, very goldwater perhaps could have forced johnson to define 3 in 1964, Barry Goldwater perhaps could have forced johnson to define victory. There were forces trying to persuade johnson, and none of them prevailed. I am not sure that he could have had much influence on lyndon. I dont know. We have some vietnam war veterans in the crowd, maybe they know. My second point is we heard about his consistency. In the 1966 election, i was wondering if the panel could talk about his endorsement for president. He was the guy who could bear grudges and bob dole had been around a lot and i would not be surprised if bob dole angered him along the way. I do not know the back story, i would love to know. He also endorsed a woman named english for a congressional state in arizona, a democrat. She won one term, but along those lines, when you ask about his consistency, one of my favorite stories is about that. He endorsed someone who he believed was a fiscal conservative, but was a democrat over a root publican over a republican that was a big spender. So, the Republican Party chairman in arizona called him up and said, barry, you need to get in line. If you do not stop endorsing this democrat, we are going to take your name off the Republican Party headquarters. Barry said to him, if you republicans do not remember the principles that we stand for, i am going to make you take my name off. Over the years, especially in his retirement, a number of figures would come here to meet with Barry Goldwater, why . They admired him. She was a person of integrity he was a person of integrity. When barry died, bill clinton the democratic president had the flag lowered to half staff on the day of goldwaters funeral, of the opposite party. That never happened before. One quick thing about Hillary Clinton being a goldwater girl. He had a fascinating rehabilitation in the 70s. There was an article in april of 1974. In 1964, he was bella lugosi, but the democrats love him now. It reviewed of the a lot of the unfairness we have been talking about and the reconsideration centered around the fact that he was being so forthright in excoriating Richard Nixon for his lies. We will go to judy next in san francisco. Thank you so much. I was raised in phoenix. My family worshiped goldwater. Later, my brother became a libertarian and said there would be no need for the party if goldwater had become president. I was later a 92 delegate to the Republican Convention, and there was going to be a big fight that year. A platform fight over abortion and the platform. A week before the convention, barry made a statement to the press that there was no blankety blank way that that should be in the platform. When i got to the convention, there was all this paraphernalia, and there was this big button that said barry is right. I bought that and war at the entire week and it is my most prized possession because barry is still right. Thank you. That is i think that is a difficult issue and i think a lot of people like to use that to call and i am not saying your caller is saying this, but to position a libertarian i think they know that 2 of the public consider themselves libertarian and they trying to journalize him that way they try to marginalize him that way. They believe that he should have no role in whether abortion is a crime. William f buckley is a strong conservative. I do not think anyone would quibble with that. He also believed that was not the role of the american government. Marketing comes into play here. They were saying the same thing. You cannot talk about very goldwater we should point out that he left the senate because his term expired, but came back in 1968 and had an Important Role in august of 1974 two days before dixons resignation. What is the story . He was the guy that let up legislation for the republicans. It is very simple. Impeachment is a political process. He says that you do not have to vote in the senate to win in a trial, and therefore, you do not want to be the first president to be thrown out by the senate, you ought to resign. And nixon took his advice and Richard Nixon resigned on august 9, 1974. The relationship each of the two . Testy. He was lionized consistently through watergate. He said that this was going this was starting to smell like doom. There was a famous showdown between Barry Goldwater and Richard Nixon at the 1960 Republican Convention, one of the important set pieces in conservative history in which rockefeller threatened a floor fight unless he could dictate the terms of the republican platform. And force Richard Nixon to fly to new york to negotiate the platform. It was announced in chicago and Barry Goldwater was so mad, he gave an angry speech calling it the unique of the rep eunuch of the Republican Party. Ever since that point, i do not think he ever really trusted Richard Nixon. Jumping into watergate, which brought about the resignation, barry told me and Bob Goldwater reiterates this. The reason why barry was so angry at nixon leading up to the resignation was because nixon was a gd liar. He talks about this in the documentary, that from childhood , we did something wrong and we told the truth, you did not get punished if we lied but if we lied, we got punished. And there is a strong thing upon barry and bob and the others about lying. He was angry at nixon about lying to the watergate. And that is why he was so angry. Edward is joining us in new orleans. Go ahead, please. In 1968, i was covering the Republican Convention in miami, and i was able to meet Barry Goldwater who was there. He was extremely nice. He struck me totally different from his national image. I also discovered Ronald Reagan in the back of a news sanction auditorium being interviewed by nbc. I was the only one to see him there and reagan was making noises about running for president at that convention. And so i stood outside while he was giving the interview. And then he came out, but by that time, other reporters had gathered out there and mr. Reagan came out and i asked him a couple questions, and these other reporters circled him about about 20 or 30 of them. I was throwing questions over the top of them, and he was very nicely yelling his answers into the microphone. We rounded a corner where the reporterse of all the and typewriters, and the whole gang of people swept into this table at the end of it, knocking over a man with his typewriter onto the floor, all of his books. I stopped to help this little man and i looked into his face, and it was theodore s. White. And that stopped me right there. He apologized to me, actually, for that. I met three very nice people. Barry goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and theodore s. White. Thank you for the phone call from new orleans. Conventions were quite different. By the way, i do think that teddy white was pretty patronizing to perry goldwater, despite with the earlier caller set. To Barry Goldwater, despite what the earlier caller just said. He was so impassioned and violently angry at the media where the goldwater delegates and supporters were, that brink ley told his son that he was no longer he was not to wear his nbc insignia in san francisco. It was a very dangerous, frightening time. In 1984, in goldwaters final two years, he put forth reagans nomination to be the republican nominee in 1984. [video clip] a month ago, i seat in my den and watched the Republican Convention. They ignored the hopes and aspirations of the largest special Interest Group of all. Free men and free women. [applause] so tonight, i want to speak about freedom. And let me remind you that extremism as defensive liberties is no vice. [applause] quintessential Barry Goldwater . Absolutely. People loved Barry Goldwater. What he was expressing is akin to give me liberty or give me death. In america, we believe this. I think sometimes that either the loss of the 64 campaign is mistakenly regarded as a rejection of those ideas, and it was not anything of the sort. You can hear it from the cheering him of the reagan revolution, the ideas being alive today. But that is what the liberal press of that time wanted him to believe and when he lost that campaign, the new york times, Washington Bureau chief had said that Barry Goldwater had not only lost but had lost the entire conservative cause. They had always talked about the death of conservatism. That was wishful thinking. That is classic Barry Goldwater and in it, it reflects what Many Americans believe, which is that you cannot be too passionate, too committed, or too extreme if you want to use that word in the defense of our constitutional freedom. Go ahead please. I just recently became involved with politics because of barack obama. I would wondering what the backlash was i am looking at people like Barry Goldwater, other conservatives, Ronald Reagan, and you look at fox news and other organizations. They place praise these conservatives, but i am wondering why africanamericans do not vote for conservatives. You look at the civil rights, you look at Ronald Reagan making the speech in philadelphia, mississippi. Can conservatives at least understand that all we have to do is pick up a book and reagan is right there. Can you be honest and say they were wrong on this . A whole segment of society feels like they are alienated. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you. I certainly understand what the color was saying caller was saying. I think more of what he is referring to is the image of Barry Goldwater that was put out there of being a crazy guy or racist or whatever, which he really wasnt. You can say whatever you want. He was never a hateful person, never a vengeful person in his handling of politics. I wish some of these 10 or 12 people out here running for president presently would adopt some of what the niceness of Barry Goldwater. It is important to note also that at the end of that 1964 campaign, Barry Goldwater made a subtle shift in his position on civil rights. He would always say, and he shouted, that q is an integrationist. That was his goal for society. By the end of that campaign as he was trying to win those Southern States, he did say that his goal was neither to have an integrated society or a segregated society. It is to have a free society. He did seem to move away from the idea of integration as a positive good. There were debates that was a dirty trick by Lyndon Johnson. In order to have a debate, you had to suspend it rule a rule so that every candidate, i. E. All 30 candidates would not have to be on the stage. Lyndon johnson wired that so that it would be possible. Something about maybe he thought that barry this question is for darcy. Do you see departing movement as a resurgence of Barry Goldwater movement . I definitely think there are the tea party the best way to answer that is it is not monolithic. There are all kinds of people who constitute the tea party and a lot of ideas in the tea party. If you look at the tea party as a group of people who have fought these gigantic bailouts and washington, they fought the raising of the debt ceiling, they fought the federal takeover of health care. All of these things he would have been with them on. Coming out and some of the major pieces of what the Tea Party Folks are working on. Franklin is on the phone. We welcome you. I would like to make a comment. I think if we would have elected Barry Goldwater as president in 1964, we would have won the war in vietnam. He did not believe in Public Opinion to guide the war. I would also like to say that Barry Goldwater told mr. Nixon that he could not hold the south for him or make sure the south would stay for him. They asked him to resign instead of be impeached. Thank you. Franklin, thank you. This stuff about how Barry Goldwater could have miraculously won the vietnam war. The United States paid over the entirety of a land mass of north and South Vietnam with a quarter inch of steel. Somehow if we had done a advantage or three quarters of an inch that that would have done it, i think it is a fantasy. A pleasant one, but it is a good a glib position. We just have one minute or two left. Did Barry Goldwater views change as he got older . My contention is absolutely not. His basic core philosophy and the way he looked at life and politics. I have had battles in oped pages where people are like, he got senile and turned liberal at the end. He did not. He was always a i call it small l libertarian. Freedom of choice whether it was abortion, gay rights, or any number of things. He was totally consistent his whole life. I agree with that. Almost any question at any time period in his life, when you look at what his position was and ask a question of whether it was constitutional or not, that will give you the answer to what his position was. His definition of this institute. People look around to find politicians who were as honest as him and stand for principles. There are few and far between. That is why he gave us his blessing. He knew he could not count on politicians to stand on principle all the time. With regular men and women supporting an organization who believed in those ideas, he would always have a voice for freedom. Rick perlstein, i will give you the final word. What was the legacy of the 1964 campaign and what impact did he have . I think the legacy was i think the legacy was organizational. It was the formation of organizations that became a permanent conservative movement that lost the battle in 1964 but lived to fight a dozen of battles more. I think his legacy is to have inspired these people to become something become part of something greater than themselves. To inspire people who felt frustrated with the course of the country to take civic action. The book is called before the storm Barry Goldwater and the unmaking of the american consensus by Rick Perlstein. To darcy olsen for hosting us here at the Goldwater Institute. The president and ceo, we appreciate your time. And bill mccune, who is a former Arizona State legislature and a author and producer of a documentary. Called barry boldwater, an an american life. We want to leave you with some of the words of Barry Goldwater with an interview we did with him while he was winding down his political career from the cspan archives in 1985. Another thing i would tell young coming into Washington Young politicians coming into washington your reelection is not going to make or break the United States. Do the best job you can do. That is what you are here for. To defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Be honest. That is all i would tell them. How about the Republican Party leaders today . I think we have good leadership today. Lord knows we spent long enough time out of office that we should have learned some things. Politics go in a circle. You will find the liberal element running things for a while. Now, we find the conservatives on the way up. The conservative will run things until he runs out of ideas. And runs out of people. Then, the other party or even the Republican Party becomes the liberal party will take over. All politics in america go around in circles. Ii think that is great. Go with goldwater go with goldwater you know where goldwater stands. Go with goldwater [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] this the contenders, about the men who ran for the presidency but lost and changed political history. Thursday, hubert humphrey. Weekendtenders this 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Cspans washington journal. Everyday, we are taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day. We will discuss policy issues that impact you. Thursday morning, the Florida Agriculture and Services Commissioner on florida and campaign 2020 and the federal response to the pandemic. Then, president of the foundation for research on equal opportunity talks about the u. S. Response to the coronavirus pandemic and the herd immunity approach. Watch washington journal, live at 7 00 eastern, thursday morning. Be sure to join the discussion with your phone goals, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. Record is a bidens shameful roll call of the most catastrophic blunders in our lifetime. Career on there wrong side of his history. President our current has failed in his mosby his most basic duty to the nation. He has failed to protect us and america. That is unforgivable. The first debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden is tuesday, september 29, at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Watch Live Streaming at ondemand at cspan. Org. Listen live on the cspan radio app. Tuesday, President Trump designated wilmington, North Carolina as the first u. S. World war ii heritage city. It comes in remarks to commemorate the anniversary of the wars end in front of the battleship North Carolina. This is 15 minutes. Freeat least i know im i wont forget the men who died