Perilous time for the 2020 census. Troubling, there were reports indicating career officials at the Census Bureau warned the trump about significant problems that will delay the delivery of census data to late january or early february. After these reports became public, the director of the census, dr. Steven billingham, issued a Public Statement confirming problems were found, but provided no details. These developments were particularly troubling because they were not reported to our committee before we write about them in the press or before the census director made his Public Statement. Committee has jurisdiction, but nobody from the Trump Administration informed us about these problems or delays. For these reasons, the committee wrote a letter to the Census Bureau november 19. We asked for documents career officials prepared describing these data problems and the resulting delays. We also requested documents repaired for the department of commerce, including the commerce secretary. But in response to our request, they gave us nothing, absolutely nothing, not even a single page. Were due a week ago, and the census is in its most critical stage. Yet the Trump Administration seems to believe they owe congress nothing, no documents whatsoever. Last week, we held a bipartisan staff rethink with the director and his top aides. Hadntd them why they turned over any of the documents we were seeking. In response, they pointed to theetary rosss office at Commerce Department and explained they collected documents and sent them to secretary rosss general counsel counsel, but they were not cleared for release. Not,our staff asked why they indicated secretary rosss office was withholding the going due to on ongoing litigation. Unacceptable. Of litigation is not a valid reason to withhold documents from congress. In addition, the administration claimed that they are withholding these documents because of ongoing litigation raises serious questions about whether they are seeking to conceal information, not just from congress, but from the judiciary. On monday, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in a case involving the president ial order to exclude undocumented immigrants from the census count. Time, the Trump Administration was blocking these documents from coming out. Nevertheless, despite the Trump Administrations obstruction, our committee has now been able to obtain three of these internal documents from another source. These internal documents not only confirmed that the Census Bureau will take until at least late january to resolve these data problems and produce a complete and accurate account, but that these problems are more serious than first reported. These problems could affect state population counts, impact representation in congress, and reduce funding states argue states are due under a host of federal programs. Problemsive, 11step was recommended to fix the and as i said, the Trump Administration tried to block our committee from seeing these documents. We had to get them from another source. The administration has claimed publicly that they are addressing these problems by bringing in more resources, but we do not have the information we need to check these claims. The Trump Administration is preventing our committee from verifying the scope of these data problems, their impact on the accuracy of the census, and the time career professionals need to fix them. For these reasons, the committee sent a letter yesterday to wilbur ross, secretary of commerce. We get him until next wednesday to produce a complete and of the documents we requested last month. Consent to place this letter in the record and that it be made part of the hearing record. So ordered. These documents should be made available to congress, to the judiciary if necessary, and to the American People so that we all have confidence in the census numbers going forward. But so far, the Trump Administration has tried to keep this information secret from everyone. Ifour letter explains, secretary ross fails to comply with our request voluntarily, he will receive a friendly subpoena. The constitution charges keyress with responsibilities over the census and we need these documents to ensure that is complete and accurate that it is complete and accurate. Our Witnesses Today are experts in a to science, census operations and the use of census data by cities and states to provide services and improve the lives of the American People. I look forward to hearing their Expert Opinions about the new documents we obtained, as well as other significant challenges faced i the census. Highranking i recognize Ranking Member comber. Ranking member german maloney, we appreciate you following up on the 2020 census. Let me say unequivocally chairman maloney, we appreciate you following up on the 2020 census. Let me say unequivocally, the census is counting everyone in the United States regardless of citizenship status paired the census has already counted 99. 8 of households in the United States. The remaining unresolved addresses will be resolved by longstanding statistical methods. But democrats still seem uninterested in these facts and instead are launching partisan attacks on the 2020 census to undermine Public Confidence in the results. Todays hearing is supposedly about the completeness and accuracy of the 2020 census, but as an our last hearing, no Census Bureau witnesses have been invited to testify. It is unclear to me what we expect to learn today. During transcribed interviews this year, Census Bureau staff made clear the bureau was committed to a complete and accurate census. They are working to deliver on this commitment. The bureau has made clear that the issues it has encountered in completing the current phase of the census are few in number, percento only 63 100s of the date of the census, do not call into question the quality of the data and are on par with past census. Bureau officials confirmed they are working as quickly and efficiently as possible with all available resources to finalize a complete and accurate census. While there likely will be a short delay in delivering apportionment results, that isnt because of problems with the completeness and accuracy of census data, it is because of a delay resulting from activist litigation. Courteek, the supreme heard oral argument in a challenge to President Trumps directive to the secretary of commerce to report and apportionment count that excludes nonlegal residence in the United States, including Illegal Immigrants. That directive was very important to ensure the sanctity of our nations elections and equal representation under the including Illegal Immigrants in the count for representation to congress dilutes the representation of all americans who vote in elections, and makes a mockery of our basic principle of one person, one vote. Thege us all to focus on task at hand, supporting the Census Bureaus extraordinary efforts to complete and accurate 2020 census count, not undermining of the confidence in its work product. Given that we have already held hearings on the census and the bureau is on track to complete a n accurate count, our time would be better spent getting to the bottom of whether the integrity of the 2020 election was compromised. During the 2020 election, we witnessed blanket mailin ballot in several states and a dramatic rise of absentee ballots and others, leading to errors and irregularities. A letter to the Election Assistance CommissionInspector General asking them to investigate why the california secretary of state used 35 million of taxpayer money to pay joe bidens Main Campaign advisory firm. I would like to know why taxpayer money was used in a questionable manner, but unfortunately, the Inspector General has yet to take action. Judiciaryr 18, Committee Member jim jordan and asked chairman maloney and chairman nadler to hold hearings on election irregularities. Why arent we holding those hearings today instead of a hearing on the Democrats Campaign against 2020 census . Have found ample time to undermine President Trump and further their agenda, but they wont hold a single hearing on Election Integrity and protecting the sanctity of the ballot box . These priorities speak for themselves. With that, i yield back. Chairman maloney our first witness today is managing director of the Strategic Issues team at the Government Accountability office. Robert will hear from santos, Vice President and chief methodologist for the urban president elect of the American Statistical Association. Chiefjoseph salvo, demographer of the Population Division nothing new York City Department of city planning. Finally, we will hear from jeff landry, attorney general for the state of louisiana. The witnesses will be an muted we can unmuted, so swear them in. Please raise your right hand. You swear or for the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. I do. The recordloney let show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Your written statements will be made part of the record. You are now recognized for your testimony. Chairwoman maloney, Ranking Member comer, members of the committee. Before you to appear to discuss progress of the 2020 census. I have the great pleasure of presenting the work of my colleagues who have been supporting the congress on census issues for many years. The 2020 census was undertaken under extraordinary circumstances. Andesponse to covid19 related executive branch decisions, the bureau made a series of late design changes that affected the way the bureau did its work at the time it took to do that work. These changes also introduced risks into the quality of the census that the bureau of census on congressional apportionment and redistricting. Professionals at the Census Bureau are deeply committed to providing an accurate and complete census count for apportionment, redistricting and other purposes. My bottom line is that it is important both for transparency and to ensure Public Confidence in the quality of the census that the euro share key indicators that the bureau share key indicators of completeness and accuracy in near real time as it releases apportionment and redistricting data. Today, we are issuing the first in a series of planned reports that will address the operations of the 2020 census and address Lessons Learned in planning for the 2030 census. That report, entitled 2020 census, the Census Bureau needs to address data concerns from recent design changes, calls for evaluation of data quality, including operational successes of the Bureau Response to covid19. We are pleased the department of commerce agreed to the recommendation, underscoring commitment to a complete and accurate census. Recently, the American Statistical Association and the Census Scientific Advisory Committee issued whatmendations, including the bureau of documents knows about population counts it applies to the president and congress, and the recognition that in the recommendation congress accepted. Censusement indicates quality indicators the bureau should consider providing. The bureau believes based on longstanding actresses that the self response from households provides the most accurate census data. However, the bureau necessarily at times uses alternative Data Collection methods when it is unable to obtain census data directly from a household. Alternative methods include proxies that would be neighbors and other knowledgeable looking at the rates the bureau used each of these methods would give insight into the census. Rates the nationwide provide quality and its important we take a look at those. However, very importantly, the bureau needs to examine the rates at which it used each of these alternative methods, and by key demographic groups to provide a more complete picture. Members of the committee, this completes my statement. Id be pleased to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you so much. Thank you. Were going to take a brief recess because we have a vote. Thank you and good morning. It is an honor to assist you today. Please note that these remarks are my own and not to be attributed to the trustees. Of the census accuracy is deeper and more complex than the latest chapter on anomalies. These are problems yet to be found reveal the consequences and risks. To help illustrate the challenges of 2020 census accuracy, i start with Research Conducted by Diana Elliott and i last year to explore 2020 census outcomes. This was precovid. We chose three risk scenarios and used Census Bureau research to simulate 2020 counts. The most optimistic scenario mimicked the performance of the 2010 census, which came in 0001 of population estimate. When we overlaid that performance over the 2020 projection, we discovered a net undercount of the population of 3 . Stated differently, had the pandemic never happened, people of color are historically undercounted, and our wonderful nation, have become more racially and ethnically diverse over the past 10 years. While this 2010 census was accurate for the total u. S. Population, it came at the expense of fairness. Counted by was over 0. 8 percent, conveniently making up for net undercount of people of color. For instance, nonhispanic blacks had a net undercount of 0. 8 . Latinx, 1. 5 . It is unfair to over count one sector while undercounting another to achieve overall accuracy. It reinforces in equities in political representation, federal funding, and economic and Public Health opportunities for the next 10 years. Why does this matter now . Consider the ongoing pandemic. We see high ratio ethnic disparities in rates of job loss, hunger, housing, instability, and health. Days of life for peoples of color often meets daily needs. That leads us to the basic quality indicator, the self Response Rate. Self response occurs when you complete your own census form. Research shows lower self Response Rates increase the rate of a net undercount. Now, our national 2020 Response Rate was 67 , higher than that of 2010. But in innercity neighborhoods, self Response Rates were lower, 60 or under. These disparities varied more in 2020 than 2010. Riskss just one of many endured. 2020 census besides the overarching pandemic, others included this citizenship, the scheduling disruptions, natural disasters, that of course a shortened Data Processing period. Or each poses their own threat to census accuracy. The collection is done, so whats next . We need transparency. A Census Bureau should release data needed to assess the quality by adopting the recommendations of the American Statistical Association and the Census Bureaus own Scientific Advisory committee. In closing, i commend the Census Bureaus career staff for their dedication, scientific integrity, and old to uphold oath to uphold the constitution. Theyre esteemed and should be allowed to do their jobs unfettered, with due diligence. Thank you again and i look forward to your questions. Thank you. Mr. Szabo, you are now recognized. Good morning, chair maloney, and members of the committee. On behalf of the mayor and the nearly 8. 5 Million People in the city of new york, i thank you for having me here today. As new york citys chief demographer, my message today is twofold. One, scheduled for the census must provide the census professional staff with enough time to do their jobs well and in accordance with the rigorous statistical standards we expect. The Census Bureau, too, must be transparent by releasing key indicators and giving americans confidence in the census. The census has been presented with challenges in the past. Few have been as formidable as those posed by the 2020 census. Among the challenges we have faced, the most pressing has been the toxic mix of fear among immigrants and their families, combined with the devastating pandemic. Plus, the challenge of overcoming this fear in many communities has been hampered by the absence of physical outreach that has been shown to encourage response, especially self response. In an effort to cope with these extort nary circumstances, sec. Of commerce and Census Bureau leadership wisely reset the schedule for the 2020 census last april. This provided more time for the allimportant nonresponse followup, or as demographers erfu. To it, n when sensors knock on the door. Unfortunately, this schedule was upended this past summer, greatly abbreviating the time the bureau had in the field and the time to process the data on the backend. Why should we be concerned . First, the very definition was becauseffended for many of movement during the pandemic. Many were not at their usual residence as of april 1, 2020. Students andtions, others in temporary locations, with family members or friends, or in second homes. For those whose usual residence was in new york city, the Census Bureau needs time on the back and to adjust their backend to adjust their resume. Moreover, such confusion over where they were supposed to be enumerated in the middle of a pandemic is a virtual guarantee that largescale duplication of responses will occur. Using data on forms that sometimes lack important basic information, such as persons name, is laborious with the time required for successful completion of the process. Second, to increase response, it allowed respondents to write in their addresses without a census 80. Census id. This is fine for those that can be easily linked to the master address file, but not for those who have regular addresses, where apartment numbers do not formally exist. The department of city planning worked more than two years identifying these addresses by assigning them designated and getting them on the bureaus address books. But without a census 80, the bureau needs census id, the match toeeds to conduct their address file, with less time in the field, it is very likely many of these cases need to be resolved by the bureau as part of backend processing, which, as we all know, has been truncated. A seriousre is concern about how the Census Bureau, in the midst of a pandemic, achieve a 99 plus Completion Rate in parts of new york city, or self response over a period of five months was less than 50 . Given this shortened timeframe. The answer is that completed, resolved, does not necessarily mean, and i quote, enumerated by a household member. But what does it mean . It could mean the determining unit does not exist. It could mean the unit was deemed to be vacant. The cases could have been resolved by contact with a respondent, such as tax returns. The final determination could be an outright refute or no determination could be made for what was believed to be an occupied unit. The Census Bureau needs to assess these cases to evaluate and administer records or known to exist using a procedure. Torics need to be produced determine how the census was completed. For example, the level of deed duplication. How many people need to be reassigned to their april 1 residence . To conclude, one, scheduled for the census must provide the Census Bureau confessional staff with enough time to process, correct what we are suspect would be an increased volume of problems with this census due to the pandemic. In second, the Census Bureau must be transparent by releasing key indicators endorsed by the Census QualityIndicators Task force of the American Statistical Association. Moreover, these metrics have to be provided for small geographic areas, substate geographic areas. Census tracts, the Building Blocks of new york city neighborhoods. This will not only provide data users with confidence and quality in the data, but will allow them to maintain its i think youit and i look forward to questions. Thank you. Mr. Landry, you are now recognized. Esther landry . Mr. Landry . Thank you. Privilege to be with you here today. Be productive today would be for every member of the committee to stipulate they are in full support of legal immigration. It would be a great place to start. If we could start from that, that all of us support legal immigration, then we can proceed to deal with immigrants that for whatever reason, are in here illegally. For now, we would move to what the definition of a citizen is. To have a nation, we must have citizens. To be a citizen means to be bestowed with all of the rights, privileges, and protections of that sovereign. For theng eligible draft, serving in the military, standing on a jury, voting, contributing to social security. And other safety net programs. Having the elitist to our country. Special take special interest in this issue. This committee is aware the constitution requires account of persons living in the United States every 10 years for the purpose of representative reapportionment. And it places the responsibility of congress to direct the cap followup. To that end, congress, you, gave the secretary of Congress Broad discretion to determine the contents of each census. Similarlyly it charged those two congress. The broad of discretion can be seen in apportionment of overseas Service Members depending on several characteristics of their service, they are counted either at their usual place of residence or at their military installation. Tourists, andals, corporate entities are excluded from the count and apportionment, even though they are technically persons under the law. From alterations come policy directions of the secretary, and they are consistent with the language of the constitution and the goal of promoting equality. They ensure an accurate census and a fair apportionment as the law requires. This was President Trumps goal when issuing his memorandum to the commerce secretary. The president s memorandum relies on the powers granted to the executive branch of government by you all, by congress, and the constitution. Restore are simple, to equality and voting power by excluding Illegal Immigrants from the reApportionment Base. Fix,is not a difficult certainly not as drastic as say, adding another state to the union. The fate of three seats does not append the balance of power. We should always seek to assure the balance of power and recognize that an Illegal Immigrants presence should not give one state power over voters in another state. By counting Illegal Immigrants in the reApportionment Base, the federal system incentivizes states to work against that system, and against each other. Sanctuary policies that entice illegal entry and shield wrongdoers from justice undermine Community Safety and the rule of law. But those states implementing these policies see increased power, thus disenfranchising other states. Illegal immigrants are expected to grow in california and ohio, while minnesota would lose congressional representation. Unlawfullye, people in this country are causing longstanding changes in our democracy by simply being counted. As the Supreme Court has recognized, few interests are more vital to a state than the extent of its representation in the house. Allowing illegal immigration to distort congressional apportionment. Illegal immigrants must be excluded from the reapportionment. Otherwise, they disenfranchise other states by unfairly distorting the apportionment of house seats in favor of state states with higher concentration of Illegal Immigrants. With determining the appropriate balance of power amongst those that wield it, the constitution demands that all votes be given equal weight. We cannot achieve that precise balance until we adopt policies laid out by the president. For thishe Committee Time and am happy to answer any questions. [no audio] thank you. Were having some connection issues with mr. Landrys presentation. He was wrapping up his presentation, so i feel that i now recognize myself for five minutes. Id like to begin by asking about the new internal documents obtained by the committee. These documents describe at least 15 different problems that career professionals at the Census Bureau identified in the data. They also show that career staff of the Trump Administration that complete and accurate data will not be ready until late january or early february. As i explained earlier, the Trump Administration did not want us to see these documents. But we were able to obtain them, nevertheless. I understand that our witnesses have now had the opportunity to review these documents, so id like to start with a simple question, which i hope you can answer with a yes or no. Disregardsnistration these data problems and rush to submit census data before these problems are fixed, would you have a high level of confidence that the data is complete and accurate as required by the constitution . Mr. Salvo, yes or no . I cant hear him. No. Ok. Mr. Santos, yes or no . No. Yes or no . Not until theyre fixed. No, maam. Ok. Id like to ask about a specific problem described in document one. Number one, this document career staff identified a data error that could result in skipping records for people who recounted in group orders, such as college dorms, nursing facilities, and military barracks. Career staff warned that this impacts more than 16,000 records. And if not corrected, may result in undercounted persons. Why is it a problem to undercount people in Group Quarters . What is this about . Well, Group Quarters represent individuals in situations like nursing homes, college dorms, homeless shelters, and the sort. Its important to count them because they are residents of the United States, and the constitution requires the Census Bureau to count individuals who are residents. Notwith that, its surprising that the Census Bureau has encountered a problem with reporters since the Group Quarters enumeration was disrupted during the pandemic. So, i am not surprised at all that roughly, perhaps half of the list of problems that had been revealed thus far are related to Group Quarters. Undercounting results in underrepresentation. It results in fewer federal fund allocations. It results in an ill bitterly an inability to properly plan. In urban areas so recently cant let that happen and i encourage that the Census Bureau, as i said, the allowed enough time to sort all the bestut and to do job you can too, with the most with the to come up most accurate counts. Career officials identified another error, affecting about 46,000 records from people who filled out paper questionnaires in nine states. The career staff wrote, if this error isnt corrected, Demographic Data from persons will be missed, and may impact the final population count. Mr. Salvo, what could the impact be if final state population count and Demographic Data are not accurate . My main point would be mr. Salvo . The Census Bureau in those maybents talked about how the problems that they were discussing affected maybe. 7 of the population. The important point to make is that that was not evenly distributed over the geographic areas of the country, and that there are some areas that would be more greatly affected than others. Anything that compromises the census of the senses will be felt more in some areas than other areas. And its important to note that. And if i may, chairwoman maloney, comment on that please . [indiscernible] ok. The Census Bureau, because of inuncation, they spot the facilities that would be included in the senses. Thats the first in the census. Thats the first point. There are some with large numbers of gqs that define who they are. And its in distribution that affects some areas much more than others. Goes,uestion on contact we are very concerned that the truncation of the schedule, less time in the field to get those answers, is caused the Census Bureau to push enumerators to a point where they compromise the data themselves. And thats with the metrics the American Statistical Association has promoted. Thats what it gets that. And thats not in the memo, ok . Thats not in the memo. We need to go beyond the memo. The quality of the data. Thank you. Thank you. Let me ask about the last page of document number one, where it lists considerations and risks. In the final bullet, the career staff set forth a stark warning. They explained that they are working on a comprehensive patch with more than a dozen individual patches, to address all these problems. But then they say this and i quote, if the sequencing of patch deployment isnt executed properly, it may result in other data anomalies. In other words, if they try to rush this, they could aggravate the process and result in even more problems. Is that right . Yes, maam. Concernstwo actually we have that are shared by the Census Bureau. One is the rushing, as you mentioned. The patches have to be put in place. They have to be tested. And you have to see whether or not to do the comprehensive fix to see where they work together. Were still talking about the first stage in the Data Processing. Theres other stages yet to come. The bureau is certainly going to be looking at that. We know from history, they can expect there will be additional anomalies that show up there, the expectation based on history is that they will be fewer and less significant. But we are not certain of that. And if there was something keeping the bureau up at night to process it, that is probably it. What is the second round, if any, of anomalies . Will they be more than historically inspected . Could that lead to less accurate data and even more delays . Correct . A could certainly lead to more delays. It could certainly lead to more delays. The important thing, as a number of people have pointed out, we are dealing with relatively small numbers in a country of 330 million, 340 Million People. The small numbers is what turns the last congressional seat. In 2000, the last seat was determined on a population difference of less than a thousand people. In 2010, it was less than 16,000 people. I dont want to imply that all these problems are that concentrated that theyre going to turn one seat. But small numbers do have a big impact at this point in the census. Thank you. Clearly, a lot of errors in these internal documents are significant and widespread, affecting all 50 states. They must be fully addressed by career experts and our committee must be given the documents we requested in order to verify that these errors have been fully addressed. I think all of the witnesses and thank all of the witnesses and i would like to now count on mr. Massi. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Id like to add to attorney general landry, if he could go through again for us how the counting or the senses counting of Illegal Immigrants census counting of Illegal Immigrants unfairly biases representation in congress, and he can explain to us how thats going to affect apportionment coming up in the next cycle. I believe youre on speaker. Sorry. [laughter] thank you. Sure. So if you take states such as rural states with larger populations, your citizens, for citizens with large operations of africanamericans or poorer states, those estates should be apportioned equally, and they are all citizens of the country should be counted. Those states such as california, the embrace sanctuary city policies and basically attract Illegal Immigrants to those cities are then unevenly waited, ed, and so weight those citizens are therefore disenfranchised when we reapportioned the seats in congress. And so thats exactly what the president was recognizing. He wanted to make sure that all citizens were represented equally in the country, in the u. S. House of representatives. If california gets an extra seat or two extra seats because of this, were counting illegal aliens in california. There are only 435 seats in congress. That means some states, or states summer, are going to lose representation somewhere, are going to lose representation. Is that correct . Thats correct. What were seeing is that minnesota, ohio, and alabama may be losing a congressional seat. So therefore, africanamericans in minnesota, alabama, and ohio, Senior Citizens in those particular states, are therefore going to be disenfranchised at the expense of illegal aliens in california. And then this sets up a perverse incentive for states to, if they want to get another representative in congress to incentivize illegal immigration into their states, doesnt it . Thats correct. Its going to create, basically, a competition between states to try to attract Illegal Immigrants in their states rather than, what Ronald Reagan always said, that people can vote with their feet by basically going into states, citizens moving from one state to another based on Economic Needs or opportunities. It was interesting that we heard from one of the witnesses when he talked about the amount of resources that could be restricted, to say minority communities are Senior Citizens. Again, counting illegals in that, basically take resources away from minority communities in other states, like minnesota, alabama, and ohio. Thank you, attorney general. You know, im glad we had a chance to discuss this issue in this hearing because a lot of my constituents are incredulous when they find out the census actually counts illegal aliens who are in this country, and that apportionment is therefore based on that. They dont even believe that thats actually happening, but it is happening. So i think its good that we had the hearing for that reason. But there are other hearings we should be having that were not having. For instance, this stimulus bill we passed, those 1200 checks, we just found out a billion of them 1 billion worth of billionm sorry 1 went to deceased individuals. And the check says deceased on it. Id like to have a hearing on why are we sending 1200 checks to deceased people . Npr, it just came out in an article that the irs admits that they are sending 1200 stimulus checks overseas to nonamericans. Why are we sending when we have americans in need, why are sending 2500 stimulus checks to nonamericans overseas . I had a norwegian who sent me a copy of his fathers check. The mans lived in oslo since the 1970s. Hes a norwegian citizen, not a dual citizen. Can we please have a hearing . Not to scratch the surface thats gone on with this program. I know hundreds of my constituents, many of them in the military, who still havent received their 1200 checks, i think is an insult to our soldiers overseas. I know its hard to get people to respond to a sensor sometimes, but we know census sometimes, but we know every member of the military, what to eat, where to go, and we can find them to send them their check . I think this is an abomination. With that, i yield back. I thank the gentleman for his questions. They did do a report on checks going to deceased persons and pointed out ways to stop that. There is legislation before congress right now that would stop that process from going forward. We will have a hearing on and follow up on it. And i now recognize misses norton mrs. , congresswoman norton. Thank you very much, madam chair. I thank you for this hearing. I think its very important we get at least the surface, and this hearing is doing that. I have a particular question even continued to serve, that is to teach one course at the law school after coming to congress. So im particularly interested recognizes because i they present a major challenge. After all, they often have what amounted to [indiscernible] at home, and offcampus. Theyre supposed to be counted for dormoffcampus housing. Covid male comp tickets that. Mail complicates that. And many of them have been forced to go back home. Concerned about having these students, particularly since even before the virus, the department of justice the department of commerce said the Census Bureau has been undercounting all campus students households. I guess thats before we got into the president s altercation. They said that the bureaus up ofs to connect made university administrators. Here im quoting them, [indiscernible] because the bureau has not does not have a final plan in place to use of. Campus students made have you considered complications of the virus that really concerns me, mr. Millman. Are you concerned that College Students who live on offcampus will be undercounted, and what do you think we should be doing about it, especially given what the Census Bureau had to say about this matter that this report was issued on august when he seven . August 27 . Maam, your concern is very, very wellfounded. Historically, College Students living at school have been among the most over counted the population over counted population, that is double counted. They find that their family will also count them back at home. So its typically been the other direction. The Census Bureau did work very hard with universities to try and build an accurate count of the students both in the dorms that was an easier lift [indiscernible] the much more difficult one, as youre pointing out, his with students living on offcampus facilities. In some cases, the university had the information and share it. In many, they didnt have that information. In some cases, they were reluctant to share that information with the Census Bureau. The basic procedures the Census Bureau would use are consistent with what to enumerate other units, using proxy data, other administrative data when they could. Your question, concern is very wellfounded, maam. Yes. Many students, according to information i have, what i heard them say, that many universities provided data to campus housing. And what i dont understand is they have not cooperated with requests to help count students who were offcampus. Why werent they cooperating with these requests . Yes. In cases where they did have that data and not willing to share it with the Census Bureau, maam, frankly its not clear why. Or at least i dont have a good explanation on that. Theit would certainly be in best interest of the university in the local community, ensure that there is an accurate count in that community. Im going to ask the chair to whatinto the matter of congress can do to make sure do, in fact,ties cooperate in the future. Because i dont see any reason for that. I dont see has my time expired . Yes, it has, and thank you for raising it, and we will look into it. I now recognize mr. Gosar. You are now recognized for your question. Youre still muted. Youre still muted. Can you hear me now . Yes, now we can hear you. Thank you. I dont know how many times i have to say it. Its groundhog day. How many times can replace waste american taxpayers dollars to listen to democrats conspiracy theories . But here we go again. The majority has been happy to undermine the Postal Service. Well keep that in mind. In the Census Bureau to score cheap political points, only to turn around and critique the republican colleagues for requesting hearings regarding the integrity because of preelection censorship and irregularities in vote count. But apparently, even ensuring integrity in the peoples government has become a partisan issue. But lets address these problems. Thank you for appearing before this committee, and the several reports your team has issued. In september, i asked you about this unprecedented census, and how technology fieldwork overcame challenges posted by covid. In your teams december gao report, is it true you confirmed the Census Bureau accounted for 99. 9 of all households in america . Yes, sir. It is a pleasure to see you again, sir. Yes, of the households, overall, theyve done very well. Your report raises concerns about the amount of time it has to complete and accurate census. Im sure it would have helped if the sensors were allowed to collect data on some temer 30th. On september 30 like it was supposed to. But it halted the ending of the senses by 15 days. There seems to be excuse after excuse to move the goalpost, whether covid, lawsuits, or even whether. Or even weather. Thank you for you and your teams work, and thank you for your technical support, which has allowed for unprecedented Response Rate and tabulation, which means to ensure American People are counted accurately and in a timely fashion. In aney general landry, democratic society, one person equals one vote is a fundamental notion. Inclusion of illegal aliens in apportionment count loses principle. However, because it grants states more seats in the body than they have legal voters. In the fallout of this election ensuring that each is counted, is there something we must ensure . It starts with granting americans equal votes in the congress. Take [indiscernible] hundreds of americans leave states like new york, illinois, california [inaudible] [no audio] i cant hear anything. Were having some connection issues. Were going to go to representative conley and then back to mr. Gosar if he needs more to complete his question. Mr. Conley, represented of conley, you are now recognized. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Can you hear me . Yes, we can. Thank you. Weve been stalwart on the whole issue of the senses and the lose census and the elusive manners. You, madam chairwoman, for that. Internal documents obtained by the committee explains that the bureau will, in fact, not finish fixing the anomalies its identified in verifying the final census count until late january, or even possibly early february. How important is this that the bureau corrects these data anomalies before moving onto the next step in Data Processing and completing the census count . Mr. Connelly, the bureau believes its absolutely vital they be corrected. What the bureau has referred to as the critical anomalies and critical isnt a function of size. Its those directly centered on the apportionment count. It can be small. Some are quite large. They need to be fixed before you move onto second stages. Thats in the bureaus view. We would share their view with the bureau. Thank you. According to the internal documents again, the time needed to correct, which you say is essential for corporate proceeding, includes the need for preparation, development, testing, and implementation. Would you agree that theres just no plausible way to rush or shortcut that correction process without further compromising the quality of the data itself . Well, certainly sir, rushing or shortcutting would be an enormous lead risky situation. Thats what were focused on with the bureau. We asked them for quite a bit of documentation. We havent received it yet. Its being reviewed by the department of congress and general counsel over there. We want to see, what is the Critical Path . What is the timeline thats going to get them to delivering the apportionment count . Weve heard, has many elders have, we dont have a firm date. Theyre looking to get it in january at some point. I think its important to remember, in respect to apportionment, this is really life or death for many communities, whether estate a state loses a represented, or could have gained one, or the lack of accurate data does not, let alone the allocation of federal resources. The stakes are high for communities all over the country. We need to take the time to make sure we get it right. Mr. Santos, president elect of the statistical association, which seeks to promote, practice statistics, a really engaging process. Do you believe outside experts should have the opportunity to review the census data before apportionment count is finalized . And if so, why . Absolutely. I am actually a big believer in Community Engaged research. Folks and, programmers running diagnostics to find errors dont realize that theyve missed something thats crucial. And the only way that that can be uncovered is by becoming transparent and allowing researchers outside of the datas Bureau Access to the so they can see if it passes the test in their local community. Ive heard instances of where prisons ended up having zero population because they were allocated by the state to the county nextdoor. Those types of small changes may not affect a state count, but they certainly will affect federal funding and planning and so forth within a state. And im very concerned about within state population accuracy. Final question, and maybe to again, but there are states that have statewide elections next year. Many of us focus on the other fortysomething states that have elections coming up in 2022. Datarankly, this census has been available early to virginia and new jersey and kentucky, i believe, but certainly new jersey and virginia because we have gubernatorial and statehouse elections next year. So, weve got to have the reapportionment data to be able to be a portion in time for our to reapportionment in time for our next election in november, less than 12 months away. Documents, with respect to the census, internal census deliberations, and the possible delay of that data until january or february, how might that affect states to have early elections and are desperately in need of early census data in order to do their reapportionment before the other states . Well, mr. Connelly, as a fellow virginia resident, im well aware of what youre referring to. The biggest risk will probably be the knock on effect for redistricting data. As you know, that comes a few months after the apportionment data. And if the Census Bureau runs into challenges wit further challenges that delay the apportionment data, and then have a knock on effect for redistricting data, and take the into the later spring, my understanding is that, from all that weve seen, that could put some pressure on the states that do need to redistrict for races this fall. Hashe gentlemans time expired and mr. Gosar is still not ready to complete his questioning, or we are having difficulties connecting with them. Mr. Heise, you are now recognized for questions. Can you hear me . Yes, we can. Ok. Thank you very much, madam chair. Just going back and looking at some stats from the past. In the 2000 census, under republican control two years before the 2000 census, there were 18 hearings. The 2010 census, democraticcontrolled house two years prior before the 2010 census were 11 hearings. E priorrs four and thre to this census, we had nine hearings regarding the census. Another two years prior to this one, we have had only five period. And i must admit, the biggest book of the five hearing bulk of the five hearings weve had have been simply hearings to bash the president and the administration, not that there were not some legitimate questions on the census. There were. But by and large, were attacking Citizenship Questions and attacking secretary ross and so forth. But we only had five hearings. And now today, we dont even have representatives from the senses here with us again. Again. Us here with is the census is counting everyone in this country, which they are required to do, but the president is right in insisting that only those who are here legally be included in the process by which we as a nation determine our government. And yet, here again, democrats are intent on ensuring they tie up this process in order to get a desired outcome, which in essence, is to make sure that states with the largest number of Illegal Immigrants are actually rewarded with extra representation that they dont deserve. So, mr. Landry, thank you for being here. Id like to ask you, as i get started here, regarding the temporary restraining order and then the preliminary injunction from judge co. , that ignores the secretarys obligation, by law, to meet the december 31 deadline to send a report to the president. Do you agree with that . Yes. Ok, so was that then, in essence, compelling the secretary to ignore or perhaps even break the law . Yes. Yes, it was. Isk, the whole topic here that california was basically hoarding resources of the Census Bureau when those resources were needed in other states in order to complete the census count on time. Experience,in your for judges to order illegal action, is that a common practice by judges . In the federal courts, in the liberal courts, yes it is, unfortunately. But it shouldnt be. The judges should be bound to apply the law and the facts. So, you described in two different amicus briefs how the residence of your state standard have the right to equal representation diminished by these two really perverse legal efforts, one compelling the law to be broken, the other counting illegal aliens in the apportionment, which actually rewards breaking the law. Is that thats correct. I got a little confused in those two cases. We filed an intervention in california in one case. And then the new york case that you may have been talking about earlier was where the president was trying to basically ensure that we did not count illegals for reapportionment in order to reapportion the house districts. Right, and both of those standard have a negative impact on your state. I go back and i just think of democrats in this committee, i go back to april. In this committee, with covid as ofwas at that time course, april was a very insecure time. No one knew what was going on. But in this committee, the ce nsus stated they would need a fourmonth delay. I would also remind everyone it was a poll that the Postal Service was going to be insolvent by september. Of course, that did not happen. There was a lot of uncertainty going on in april, as was brought up here a little while ago. In august met with us this year saying that they were going to be able to meet the december deadline. So, things that were predicted, that were cleared simply never happened. Mihm, what was the enumeration rate in the 2010 census . Do you remember . Enumeration rate, sorry sir. Do you mean the undercount from the 2010 census . The enumeration rate. You said a while ago the one this year, 99. 98 . Sorry, is. Its a little bit of apples and oranges. But when the census is all done, they do a major coverage measure to assess the quality. The 2010 census continued to pattern an improvement and had a net over count of about. 01 . As was mentioned earlier by mr. Santos, that was different by democratic groups. He did have a net undercount of nonhispanic blacks and hispanics and American Indians living on reservations. A. 01 overall, with over count. The gentlemans time has expired but the gentleman may answer the question. He did answer the question, maam. Id just like to conclude by saying i would love to be able to ask some of these questions to census, but obviously i cant because they were not even invited to be here today. Hopefully we will be able to speak to them in person. I yield back. Thank you. Well, i do want to say that some of my colleagues have complained that officials from the Census Bureau or the Congress Department are not here today. Let me just say that nothing is off the table going forward. We can invite them. This hearing was called because the Trump Administration refused, repeatedly, to share information that the Oversight Committee requested over and over with our committee. We had to learn about major problems not from the Census Bureau, but from the press. And then finally, we got more information from alternative sources that brought the information to us and felt that we should have it. Have wethat we ask for information from secretary ross and from director billingham, and they refused to give us the information. Thats why we are now discussing we havermation that gotten from an alternative source. We can certainly have director billingham and mr. Ross back to another hearing next week if you would like to request it. We would certain the grant that to you. Exceeds me. This excuse me. The current status is we wrote to secretary ross yesterday and we gave him one week to complete a complete amount of documents that are unredacted, a set of documents we requested last month. And if he does not, he could very well face a subpoena. And i will also consider whether we need to hold another hearing to hear directly from him and secretary ross. And if you requested, we will certainly do if you requested, we will certainly do it. I have to announce we have to take a brief recess because we have a vote. I have a caucus meeting right now and i want to give all its members the opportunity to vote. The committee stands in recess for five minutes. Recognizesow congressman raskin. You are now recognized, congressman raskin. We cant hear you yet. Rep. Raskin can you hear me now, madam chair . We can, thank you. Rep. Raskin is there any statistical benefit in requiring bureau to deliver apportionment data by the end of the year despite having to ssuspend Field Operations for three months . [indiscernible] statement. With that as far as risk of accuracy of counts is concerned, the shorter amount of time the bureau has to produce quality data, the higher the risk that something is going to go wrong. Rep. Raskin do you agree the couldion to rush the count affect the accuracy of the data assembled . Yes, sir. From a Data Processing standpoint, it does have risk. 150 days was to have of Data Processing. 90 days and now it is 77 days. It puts pressure on them to both identify anomalies and address hey identify. Es t rep. Raskin am i visible now . I am being told i was not on. You are now visible. Rep. Raskin i heard some of our colleagues refer to wild conspiracy theories, but never got to the major one emanating from the president of the United States who invites us to believe there is a conspiracy of dozens of republican and democratic Elections Officials and secretaries of state around the country, all of whom have rejected his ridiculous attacks on the election. Beenas the president has waging sabotage on the american electoral process, he has been waging war on the census, which is a force central to the electoral process in america. The administration tried to impose a Citizenship Question on the 2020 census in a way to designed to depress participation. They refused to back off until the Supreme Court struck it down as unlawful. Then when coronavirus hit and census andlays in the the director tried to do the right thing by seeking a 120 en politicson, th took over again and the president reversed course. Administrationhe forced the bureau to end Data Collection early and still insist it produce the results by december 31. We are seeing a series of outrageous attempts to subvert the 2020 census, just like the attempts to subvert the 2020 election by the president. Now they want to ignore the plain text of the constitution and overturn centuries of governmental practice by not counting all the persons in the United States, as clearly directed by the constitution. Is it not the case there has been an unbroken practice of more than two centuries and counting every person as commanded by the constitution . That is my understanding. From experience working on census issues since the 1990 census, i dont recall this being a topic of even minor conversation in those. Rep. Raskin the 14th amendment says representatives [indiscernible] counting the whole number of persons in each state. There are a number of occasions in the constitution where citizens are used deliberately and other occasions where the word person is used. The reason why we have this unbroken practice going back to the First Congress is it is clear that when we count, we count the whole number of persons. Let me ask, if you were to follow the president down this particular primrose path, do we have a way of counting people in different citizenship and immigration categories . Is there a database in the federal government that has accurate citizenship status of every person in the country . Unfortunately i am not able to be helpful. That is not something we looked a lot at. The Census Bureau is looking at dozens of federal databases, the individual and collective accuracy of those is not something i can speak to. Rep. Raskin that is to say we are not set up to do this because that is not what the constitution calls for. This is another effort by the administration to politicize and disrupt the census. The laws we passed in congress to implement the census in more than 200 years of unbroken precedents. Your time has expired. Set thego back and clock at two minutes and 30 seconds. You are now recognized. Sorry for the inconvenience, madame chairwoman. I would like to address the previous gentlemen, my colleague from maryland in regards to the comments about the election. It is none other than the hasleman from maryland who disbelief in regard to the Voting Machines utilized in 2016 and then the fraud in the election. The gentle man introduced legislation to have federal oversight over the machines. Lets be careful what we ask for. I would be watching arizona in regards to what the machines have done. One legal vote cast for each legal individual. We talked about the migration folks from red states to blue states like mine. Do we have the means to track these migratory patterns to make sure [indiscernible] t do we the means have the means to do that . I am sure we have the means to do that, yes. Shouldnt that be part of my understanding is a must 800 people a day are leaving new york state for florida and southern states. It seems like that would be a va lid number, would it not . It would be an interesting number. I would guess the u. S. Postal service would be able to provide that information to the Census Bureau based on the people that migrate from california to new york, when they would seek residency in a state like florida or georgia would be changing their address. Rep. Gosar Something Like what we have seen democrats do with georgia, they register in georgia for the next election. That something [indiscernible] im sorry, the question broke up. Could you repeat it . Can you repeat the question, mr. Gosar . You broke up . Rep. Gosar can you hear me, madame chairwoman . Rep. Maloney now we can hear you, but we couldnt prior. Rep. Gosar we are seeing georgia Democrats Ask people to come and vote in georgia [indiscernible] rep. Maloney we cant hear you now. We are having connection issues. I will submit [indiscernible] rep. Maloney okay. Now recognized mr. Grossman. Would you please unmute . Can you hear me now . Rep. Maloney yes we can. A couple questions. Regarding immigrants, as i understand it now, are there immigrants in the United States, particularly from mexico, w ho are voting in mexican elections . It too. Else can answer can you repeat the question, sir . As i understand it, there were articles a few years ago that mexican immigrants in the voting intes are mexican elections. Is that true . I dont know that to be an accurate fact. You can presume if someone entered the country illegally and is still a citizen of mexico, they could either return to mexico and vote rep. Grothman sdo either of the three people want to answer that question . You can google it and it will show up. I remember efforts made by mexican politicians to get people in america to vote in the mexican elections. Toi would say its safe presume it is true if you have a question following that. Rep. Grothman it is true. You just google it and you will find out it is true. You would think that is a little unusual. I wondered if that is true, wh ere they register in mexico. I must assume they have a permanent residence, and if so, are they being counted for census purposes in mexico as well . Anybody know . Shouldnt we know that . We have four experts here. Are people here illegally in this country being counted . I would assume i will ask another question if i am an american citizen and want to spend three months taking a Student Spend three months in Great Britain as a student for the fulsome mr. For the fall semester, am i counted for the u. S. Census or not . What happens there . All i can speak to is what the residency rules the Census Bureau uses, the u. S. Census bureau rep. Grothman my question is, it is highly relevant. We dont count people in two places, okay . Fond du lac wisconsin and am a student at university of wisconsin in madison, we have a problem because people double count. Am and dad think missy is fond du lac resident, but maybe her own filing forms. I think it is highly relevant as to whether people in this country are being counted twice. In other countries as well. Does anybody know that . Definitively based on Census Bureau research, 8. 5 Million People were duplicates in the 2010 census. I expect that to be much greater this time. Rep. Grothman what percentage . It was 8. 5 Million People were duplicate records, erroneous records that were included in the counts of the census in 2010. They, plus some erroneous conclusions, ended up counterbalancing the 16 Million People that were totally omitted from the 2010 census. That is the only reason the census in 2010 was hyper accurate. Rep. Grothman so you believe this time as well it might be counting 8 million, 10 people twice . I think the duplication problem is going to be on steroids and going to be much greater. Rep. Grothman that is reassuring. Is any effort being made to make y arepeople are saying thei residents of mexico are not residents here . Census bureau . No . We dont care or dont worry about accuracy . We are so accurate that we have 99. 98 of the addresses . Theme doing something with but weve got millions of people who might be double counted . Is that just people double counted in this country, or does that mean you are counted in the United States and in another country . It is a combination of things. It includes the College Students counted in college town as well as home. It includes divorced families, each parent of which claims their own kids, and it includes a lot of folks who have second homes. If you live in minnesota and like to spend winters in the rio grande valley, you can end up showing twice because you filled out the form in each location. S that rep. Grothman that is reassuring. We found out something new today. Rep. Maloney we now recognized mr. Surveys sarbanes. Rep. Sarbanes can you hear me ok . Rep. Maloney we can. Rep. Sarbanes you cochaired the task force of census experts at the American Statistical Association. You said in your capacity as cochair that, because data are foundational to our democracy, commerce, and everyday lives, the nation deserves publicly available indicators to assess the credibility of the final count. I appreciate your testimony reinforcing this notion of accountability, transparency, and the accuracy of the data and the importance of bringing in outside experts who can get the public more confidence that the senses is being conducted in an accurate fashion. Are you satisfied the Census Bureau provided full data all the data you and the experts need to assess the quality of the census count . Frankly, that has not occurred. Morent there to be transparency. Ee outlined in our report th indicators that we know exist and could be easily generated and put out to the public and researchers so that we could establish for ourselves independently the quality of the census comes. Count census counts. Because of covid and all the challenges i reviewed over the course of our opening statements, we think there is a severe risk for there to be highly differential quality aspects to the counts across the country. Rep. Sarbanes i want to ask about two specific components of the date. One is getting these quality measures assessed at the census tract level. I want you to speak to why that is important. The second is a followup nonresponse process. Those numbers can be put inside the overall percent Completion Rate at the state level. It is important to break out the nonresponse followup. If you can speak to those two particular issues, i would appreciate it. It is incredibly important to indicatorsd, quality down to the census tract level. We need to know census tracks are neighborhood level indicators. We need to know the extent to which there are real problems, not just knowing the total number of people there, but knowing their makeup so we can plans for things like schools and fire stations, not to of political terms representation, if you have a collection of census tracts that othersrcounted, whereas are over counted, you are going to set up that iniquity that we heard thus far, where individuals and up getting less representation than they deserve while others get more than they deserve. I want to emphasize what you just said. Fundamentally, the census is about giving every person in this country the opportunity to stand up and be counted, and if you dont have that kind of accuracy at the census tract level, as you just indicated, you can have a situation where the voice of some people and some communities is being given more weight than the voices of other communities and individuals in our country. So you can perpetuate some of the unfairness and imbalanced distribution of certain political power across the country that already exists in so many ways. The census ought to be combating that unfairness, making sure everybodys voice is given equal weight. I appreciate you emphasizing that. That is why it is so critical, madam chair, that the transparency and integrity of this process be protected. With that, i would yield back. Rep. Maloney the gentleman yields back. You are now recognized for questions. Thank you, madam chairman. This is a Rapid Response question, yes or no. Allowl landry, should we noncitizens regardless of legal status to run for office in the United States . Can you repeat that again, congressman . Palmer should we allow noncitizens to run for office of the United States . No, sir. Yes palmer same question, or no. That is not something i can offer an informed review on. Rep. Palmer sure you can, it is the law. I am sure you are familiar with the law, yes or no. To the extent it is consistent with the law, i would agree. Beyond is a policy concern i cannot speak to. Rep. Palmer i am not asking a policy question, i am asking whether noncitizens were carless of legal status should be allowed to run for office in the United States. Yes or no . Law, that would guide my judgment. Rep. Palmer it is a yes or no. If the law does not permit it, the law does not permit it. Rep. Palmer so your answer is no . My answer is if that is the law of the land, that is indeed the law of the land. I would have to respect the law of the land. Rep. Palmer i will take that as an unmitigated you dont want to answer. Actually, i very much resonated with his response. If that is the law, then we should follow it. Rep. Palmer then we should we allow them to make financial contributions or any contribution to candidates, yes or no . No. Law should be followed on this, whatever the law will be. It is beyond my knowledge of the requirements. Rep. Palmer the law says no. If the law says no, i would respect that. Law, iistent with the would say no. Rep. Palmer thank you. Residents mented well, should noncitizens regardless of legal status be allowed to vote in our elections . No. Again, it is whatever the legal requirements are. We believe the legal requirements should be followed. Rep. Palmer i will take that as a no. I will conform with the rules of the law. Whatever the losses, i will risk the law says, i will respect that. I would say no. Rep. Palmer im glad [laughter] answers, should votes cast in this last election by noncitizens, including people residing here illegally, be counted and allowed . Yes or no . A rep. Palmer yes or no. No, they should not be counted. Votes should be counted consistent with the law. Same. Votes should be counted consistent with the law. No. Rep. Palmer heres my point. Obviously a couple of you would like to equivocate on this a bit. Should countwe everybody, but not everybody should be counted for [indiscernible] the reason that is the case is the transient nature of a lot of the people residing here as noncitizens. About one third of the people who reside here will not be here for the next census, so it makes no sense to count noncitizens for apportionment purposes, particularly when sick states account for over half of it. Concerned about the fact that there are states that have declared themselves sanctuary states in violation of federal law to protect people residing in the country illegally . Rep. Maloney the gentlemans time has expired, but the gentle man may answer the question. Thank you. Yes, i have been concerned about years and five to six have documented wellknown statistics that show how unsafe these communities are and it is a Public Safety crisis. Rep. Palmer madam chairman, i could not see the clock. Rep. Maloney your time has expired, sir. Your time has expired. You are recognized for questions. Thank you, madam chair. I did not know i was next. [laughter] sorry. I want to ask our witnesses about what goes into fixing the data problems that Census Bureau staff identify in documents obtained by the committee. Document one includes a slide on page four, titled comprehensive Development Test [indiscernible] this slide lays out a detailed 11 step process that the Census Bureau will follow to correct these errors. It includes developing patches to fix the errors hello, madam chair, can you hear me . Rep. Kelly and verifying they solve the problem. Why is it important for the Census Bureau to go through each of these steps to fixing the 15 data problems they discovered . Thank you for the question. The importance is each of these 15 critical anomalies, as they refer to them, has its own set of root causes, its own set of problems, and they need to make sure we get the individual thinks is right, but make sure i t can all come together again and provide an accurate count. This is one of the early steps in the Data Processing. They have work to do even after the comprehensive patch is put in place and successful. Rep. Kelly thank you. Slide seven is entitled generations and risk. If the sequencing of patch deployment isnt executed properly, it may result in other data anomalies. Why is it critical that the bureau properly sequences the steps on each of the data problems they discovered . The key point is subsequent Data Processing is dependent upon the earlier steps. So there is a Critical Path. In some cases, they can do processing simultaneously. Point they cannot move forward or largely cannot move forward to a subsequent step until they have fixed everything of all preceding steps, and thats the concern they have now. Documents the three layout the stepbystep timeline to fix these data problems. To do shortu was cuts of that process in the middle could that affect the accuracy of this data . The short answer to that, maam, is yes and i think the senses officials would share that view as well. Rep. Kelly thank you. On page seven document one warned that more data promise could be discovered, and i quote, additional time may be required for comprehensive relief. Given that at least two new data problems were discovered in the last two weeks, do you think it is possible that the bureau will discover additional problems over the next month that will take more time to fix . I would go beyond that and say its not just possible, its probable. The Census Bureau expects there will be some additional anomalies. That is based on history from 2010 and earlier. They are hopeful this will be manageable and relatively small, in which case they can maintain a schedule or they would get problematic for the Census Bureau is if they were many of them or depending on the significance of those anomalies. Rep. Kelly thank you so much. It sounds like this is a process that cannot be rushed. The process must be done deliberately and carefully. With that, i yield back. Thank you, madam chair. Rep. Maloney thank you very much. Mr. Higgins, you are now recognized for questions. Thank you, madam chair. Think of holding this hearing thank you for holding this hearing and the witnesses appearing before us today, especially my dear friend and attorney general from louisiana, jim landry. My colleagues have stated again and again that we need to get this right. I would agree. The most significant identifier with theng it right American People is a question of after the senses, what will happen with apportionment recording regarding representation as it relates to illegal residents president here illegalca just residents present here in america . Americans by and large that i speak to across my district and across the country are shocked that thisare advised census could result, and likely will result, in the reapportionment of congressional ofresentation at the expense legal, rural americans, statebystate. Several states can be impacted, to the benefit of illegal residents and densities of populations and states that are identified as sanctuary states. Its shocking to americans to their congressman or congresswoman could be district it out, that their state could actually lose a seat. So that california could get of illegalt because residents being counted for the purpose of apportionment. Attorney general landry, you and i have had long conversations about the constitution. We constitution begins with the people of the United States. It does not begin with we the people of the world, or we the people of the United States plus whoever happens to be here illegally. For the purpose of apportionment, sir, can you explain how allowing illegal residents to be counted for congressional representation of apportionment, how that would impact america, as a former congressman yourself, and you continue to serve honorably, the entire nation thanks you, please give america an overview of just this reality of this is, and what will happen . Where will these seats go . 435 congressional seats. Tell america what will happen if illegal residents are counted for the purpose of apportionment in this census . You, start with, thank congressman, i appreciate it. To start off is to recognize with the goal is in reapportionment, and that is for everybodys about to be counted the same, to have peoples across the country. So when you have states with larger populations of Illegal Immigrants, like california, who cannot even vote in those Congressional Districts, but then you count them in the senses, you amplify the citizens who can vote, the legal citizens in that particular district, you , citizenshise them say in louisiana, goods because you are amplifying the votes of those citizens against the votes of citizens, say, in louisiana. Therefore you are diluting those citizens in louisiana whose votes are not being granted equally to those votes in california. And thats the problem. We should only be counting in the countryns in terms of reapportionment, so that as we apportion congressional seats across the country, american citizens are granted equal weight across the country in representation in the house of representatives. Say, you disenfranchise, africanamericans in alabama, minnesota, ohio. Representation in those states because we are including Illegal Immigrants in the census count for reapportionment. Your time has expired. Rep. Higgins thank you very much. Rep. Maloney misses lawrence, you are now recognized for questions. Thank you so much, madam chair. As you know, i represent the city of detroit. You recognizeony how important it is to deal with the problems caused by this pandemic. In spite of extraordinary self responseits was barely over 50 . I fear too many households were counted using less reliable methods. Example, interviewing neighborhoods and landlords and so on. Is my concern legitimate, and if so, what could that mean for the accuracy of our final numbers . Is veryconcern legitimate, congresswoman. In new york, we have many neighborhoods where self response was very low, and as as ive indicated, the Census Bureau has taken steps to close the gap. In many cases, those steps may not have resulted in an actual contact with a household member. We need to know so that we can have confidence in the census and what theyve done. We need to know how much of that happen, we need to know how many Housing Units were declared to be vacant, how many might have been deleted from their list. We need to know how many proxy responses were used. All of these will give us a gauge so that we can have confidence that the professionals have done what they needed to do. Rep. Lawrence i also want to say that an undercount in detroit likely will cost the city 1. 3 million cdc grants to help prevent the money could have help the city protect more kids. Knowing this, what might be the effect of the anomaly, specifically young children, low income families, black and indigenous and other . . People of color i want to know how can we provide a guess on what kind of anomaly might come up in the next stage of Data Processing . I want to go to something mr. Santos said earlier about duplication, about the idea that the Census Bureau needs to get a handle on how many people were living as of april 1 in the city of detroit, for example, or the city of new york. There was considerable dislocation, a lot of it we believe is temporary, but it caused a lot of confusion. People may have answered into different locations. The Census Bureau needs time to sort this out. If they do not sorted out properly, the number of people that would be for example put back into detroit as of april 1 because they may have left, or put back into new york city as of april 1 will be smaller than it needs to be. I mention something earlier that has not come up, on the census board itself on the performance itself come they ask if you have another residence or if you live elsewhere. It takes time to get that information, to look at administrative reference, to look at all the sources. Maybe they dont have the name on the questionnaire. The bureau needs a time to figure it out. If they dont, you could get hurt, the city of detroit, the city of new york, and the funds that go with that will also take a hit. Thank you. Ce rep. Maloney the gentlelady yields back. Recognizes mr. Keller. You are now recognized, mr. Keller. Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. The census is an incredibly important topic in this committees work on the matter has been essential for the hard to count people like in rural parts of pennsylvania. We need to ensure the Census Bureau has the resources and support it needs to successfully complete this work. By all accounts, the director and the Census Bureau are on track to deliver a complete and accurate count. Anomalies being brought up during this hearing reflect less than 60 31 hundredths of a percent of the data being processed, and the director self i said that these types of anomalies have occurred in past censuses. All i appreciate the chair holding this hearing today, the threats on the executive order on apportionment should not be controversial. Since we do not use data about the number of people visiting this country for the purpose of determining Congressional Districts, by that same logic, we should not use the number of illegal aliens, either. Mr. Landry, what kind of discretion does the executive branch have to promote equity when determining apportionment numbers . Well, first, congress has rented executive department a tremendous amount of discretion in order to conduct the census , and of course they have abide with the constitution as well. The Supreme Court has said so much in a case called franklin versus massachusetts. Theres no question that excluding illegal aliens from promotes equality. Its interesting that many of the Witnesses Today, especially as mr. Santos has completely has reiterated, and i agree with him, that people of color are being disenfranchise. I would submit that if being disenfranchise because we are including illegal aliens in the count for the apportionment. You mentioned the Supreme Court decision, could you elaborate on the importance of that decision with respect to the apportionment . In the franklin case, the Supreme Court considered whether to allow people serving overseas to be counted or the purpose of their home state apportionment, and the Supreme Court said yes, that basically the secretary had the discretion under which to determine whether or not they wanted to be counted are not, and specifically the court said the secretary wielded a very Broad Authority to conduct the census in a way that promotes equality. So that grants the secretary abroad amount of discretion and it is important to recognize that it is congress, it is you all that gave the secretary that wide discretion. Rep. Keller thank you, and i just want to followup on another thing. Article one section two of the constitution uses the term all portions with respect to apportionment. Differencerify the between whole persons and all persons . Scalias take justice comments where he warned against the statutely is should not really be interpreted strictly or loosely, but basically it should be interpreted reasonably. So lets say no one has ever wholereted the phrase number of person including everyone in the country because we dont count tourists, we dont count corporations, but yet corporations are persons as well. So again, it just goes back to emphasizing the fact that congress has granted the secretary broad discretion in determining how to define that and who exactly to include and not include. Rep. Keller thank you, i appreciate that, and i yield back. Rep. Maloney the gentleman yields back. Congresswoman, you are now recognized. Thank you for holding this hearing. , theu may be aware American Community survey an estimate of the senses are not conclusive of the territories of the United States. There are nearly 4 million u. S. In the census. Ed a parallel version for puerto rico but not all the other territories. All of the territories including puerto rico, some of the highest poverty areas in the country are not included in the income and poverty estimates of the senses. Ive been on record at four including all these areas in the census. Are any our love you familiar with those surveys, the American Community survey are the small income and poverty estimates, and when any of you be able to briefly describe what each of them does for us . I worked a lot with the American Community survey. It is the basis for the description or picture of the socioeconomic characteristics of a nation. Information that used to be captured on what was called the census longform. The census longform stopped in in 2005 we had the first American Community survey. It is a very large sample of the nations population and it is used as the basis for all kinds of work, school planning, i can tell you from my agency, my position is that we use it for everything. Again, education, income, how people travel, get to work, all kinds of information that is for city planners, for example, or for rural planners or for anyone who is interested. Legislators to be able to use that information to show why are areas need funding or dont need funding. Thank you very much. One of the things im concerned with is because the territories are not included, and because they are some of the highest poverty levels of the country. That is not an estimate, that is a fact. Kind of reasons we been told that we have not been included is the lack of the territories around lack of availability of funding. In any of your opinions, what would be the benefit of including the territories, million american citizens, not just residents, citizens. What would be the benefit to us , ofeing part of the census those other surveys that are drawn . That are done . You would have a picture of the social and economic characteristics of each of the areas you are talking about. My knowledge of the puerto rico Community Survey, in that case, its actually very thorough, and again with a substantial sample, and provides you probably with the basis for the statements that you made earlier. As far as the outlying areas are concerned, that is a matter of policy and a matter of finding that has to be determined within the congress if an appropriation needs to be made for that purpose. But there is no question that we benefit from understanding the characteristics of the population that actually is a benefit to the rest of the nation. Thank you. Mag just ask, the natural disasters, how might that have and the census taking census count in areas like the Virgin Islands or puerto rico that have not in any way recovered from natural disasters in the past three years . [indiscernible] ability to take the census in those areas. , thes no infrastructure people are still suffering to this day. And so its tough to motivate , so theresicipate going to be a Lasting Impact of the inability to properly account for the citizens of puerto rico because of the disasters and the impact on the ability to take the count. Rep. Maloney your time is expired. Representative miller, you are now recognized for questions. Thank you, chairwoman and Ranking Member. I appreciate you all being here today. As the senses nears its conclusion in these coming weeks, i want to commend the work that has been done by the Census Bureau to complete this years count, given the difficulties, circumstances that have been created by the virus and the pandemic. West virginia could have easily been one of the most difficult states in the nation to complete this year census count, but instead, it appears it is going to be a resounding success, and i would like to thank the Census Bureau for their diligent efforts during this time. Therongly support president s action to protect the sanctity of our constitutionally mandated apportionment process, so that all american citizens are represented fairly and accurately. I get disappointed when i think about the fact that my colleagues across the aisle and the immediate chair leader spent the last four years covering conspiratorial actions and ideas instead of really working on what we should be working on. The Supreme Court is hearing arguments right now on the case that will decide the apportionment in the Census Bureau will be delivering their completed product within the next week. Attorney general landry, how will states like West Virginia, who abide by federal immigration laws, be negatively impacted by unfair apportionment policies . Thank you. Yes, as i explained earlier, when you include illegal aliens the census count or for the basis of reapportionment, estate like West Virginia which may have a high population of Senior Citizens, those american citizens have been disenfranchised by states like california that incentivize illegal aliens to reside and protect them in their particular states. So basically, those illegal aliens are drawn to california and then when we count them, for reapportionment, the Congressional Districts are then weighted toward california at the expense of states like West Virginia. Exactly. Er can you explain my federal law does not prevent excluding illegal aliens for apportionment . Congress has granted the secretary great discretion in apply these types of facts. In fact, i explained earlier on a case that the Supreme Court issued under which the Supreme Court said that the secretary was granted wide discretion as long as it passed a two prong, and that was, number one of that is that it ensures equality. And of course when you basically wait those who are in the country illegally against american citizens, that certainly would not pass the equality test. It would grant the secretary the ability to exclude them in the reapportionment numbers. Is there Supreme Court precedent that shows the secretary of commerce has wrought discretion to determine the policy and it comes to the census and the apportionment . Of franklinhe case versus massachusetts, the Supreme Court reinstated the fact that congress has granted or delegated that authority to the secretary of congress and that that authority was broad. Rep. Miller could you explain how counting illegal aliens or purposes of the Apportionment Base actually creates incentives that encourage states to subvert enforcement of federal immigration laws so that they can be awarded greater representation in the house of representatives . Yes, as i explained again earlier, what happens is that illegalhat have large alien populations will be on the greater power federal stage, greater resources and then basically go to those states at the expense of rural states that have large senior or minority populations. So again, you take a state, say minnesota, African Americans in minnesota will be disenfranchised at the expense of california, which has a greater illegal alien population. So again, the system under which states are incentivized to go against the system, to basically encourage illegal immigration in those particular states rather than abide by federal law. [indiscernible] rep. Maloney the gentlelady eels back. Congresswoman presley, you are now recognized. Pressley thank you for convening this hearing with the urgency it deserves. We cannot risk the loss of doings of americans by compromising the integrity of our senses. The United States is a complete and accurate count of all people. Andconstitution demands mark colleagues and art require it to do our jobs effectively. Ours needed to inform policymaking and ensure our communities get their fair share of more than five four than 1. 5 trillion in funding to support everything from our Transportation System to education and health care infrastructure, to small businesses, and to nonprofits. Snap, oure, look at nations most impactful antihunger program. Census data informed how to allocate its budget of more than 60 billion. Across the commonwealth of massachusetts, snap helps one in 10 residents. In my district, one of the most diverse and unequal, nearly one in five households received snap benefits. Food pantry lines have been growing even longer over the past few months, underscoring my snap funding is so important. For puts food on the table our elders, supports our working families, and ensures that our children dont go hungry. The Census Bureau must take appropriate steps to process and tabulate the final census count to ensure the social safety net programs like snap reach the people who need them most. The ongoing pandemic has proven that these Government Programs are popular and absolutely essential. So as we chart a path through covid recovery, the census count will serve as a Critical Data source to ensure the hardest hit communities receive their equitable share. How important is the accuracy of the 2020 census in ensuring a Fair Distribution of federal funding . I think you laid out exactly right. Its instrumental. Hundreds of billions of dollars, estimates have been over a trillion dollars, that over the next decade will be driven whole or in part by census data. In some cases with some programs, demographic breakdowns, whether by age or gender. So we need to have a full and complete count and we need to have it be accurate in terms of the demographic characteristics, if her going to adequately and sufficiently allocate very scarce federal resources. Szabo, howey dr. Much of your work occurs at the municipal level . Can you elaborate on that and how issues like housing and employment are impacted by an inaccurate census count . Virtually all of my work is of the the neighborhoods city, and i can give you a few illustrations. One that is close to my heart. Decide tochool has to , thew a Boundary Department of education would come to us and ask us how best can we draw this boundary . So we take data with census tracts of small geographic areas and we assemble it and we look at the number of schoolchildren. We supplement that of course with the American Community survey data that was shown earlier to try to figure out how many of those children are in need. How many are across the poverty line . And we create a picture for the department of education that allows them to figure out how to if those children are not enumerated, they are not accounted for in the census, and yet our Community Survey does not show those children to be insent, we make decisions the absence of information, in essence, and it handicaps us. I can give you a number of illustrations like this, but this is just one way that it really matters at a local, geographic level what the Census Bureau has done. We need to understand it. For example, how many of those missing or not missing . One of the reasons why i ask this is because, as was alluded to earlier, omissions and duplication are not generally in the same place. Thisot generally have offsetting influence where you couldnt essence indepth with the correct number by virtue of errors in either direction. Areas with large numbers of omissions 10 not to be those areas with large numbers of erroneous immigrations. You need to understand what the Census Bureau does in order to inform our strategies. Those communities historically marginalized and under resourced stand to be disproportionately impacted. Those that have been historically hard to count, black and latino neighborhoods, immigrant communities. Foreignborns 40 residents and 53 people of color. Households areur single femaleheaded. Weif we dont get this right will see a tsunami across this issue. Your time has expired. It will continue for 10 years and basically reinforce inequities that were preexisting, like i said, for the next 10 years. I now recognize the senator. Chair. K you, madam before i begin my questions, let me say this. You and yourte members fair desire to ensure the integrity of the census, and i appreciate your willingness to hold additional hearings on that. I wish you all had the same sincere desire to ensure the election,of the 2020 because a lot of americans expect congress to at least hold that,earings, and ensure moving forward, we dont have any doubts about the integrity of our election. That is the role that this committee can play. That is your decision, and i strongly encourage you once again to allow us to have a hearing as soon as possible on the integrity of the 2020 election. Having said that, i want to onnk attorney general landry a topic thats very important. I hope that his testimony in the Community Today helps everyone have a better understanding of the president s action on apportionment, and excluding illegal aliens from the apportionment count. Monday the Supreme Court heard an amicusin new york, brief on behalf of your state and several others, is that correct . It is correct. Filingyou tell us why that brief is so important to those in louisiana and other states as well . In they american citizen and otherouisiana ,ural states around the country by counting illegal aliens for the purpose of reapportionment disenfranchises minorities in louisiana. It disenfranchises Senior Citizens in louisiana, and it can restrict the amount of federal resources that those communities who need them the most in those particular states, and those resources will then gravitate and migrate to states that embrace sanctuary city policies, defying federal law. Each states Member Congress is their voice in washington. Notng a voice to those that . T dilutes , correct it shows a wrench into the machinery of congressional apportionment. Ifagain, what happens is, you count illegal aliens in the country, what you will find is that those populations have swelled in states that have been have embrace sanctuary city policies. States like new york and california that will gain additional congressional at the expense of states like minnesota, alabama, and ohio. So basically, you are creating Congressional Districts that represent people who came into their country illegally. Rights,not enjoy the the complete rights and. Rivileges of american citizens that a voterse voting one Congressional District should be worth equally as much as any other persons vote in any other district . Thats correct. Lets take, for instance, we all recognize, it is not disputed by any of the members that the secretary of commerce has tourists, people who are here in the United States on tourist visas from being counted in the census. Yet if that person, under their theory, by counting them, stays in the country past the point of their visa, for some reason they again, it leads to absurd consequences. Agree that apportionment according to the whole number of persons in the state could reasonably be interpreted to exclude illegal aliens even though they are residing in the United States unlawfully . Let me conclude my questioning by saying this. I think an overwhelming majority of americans agree with everything you said, mr. Attorney general. Thats the position that the republicans on this committee have taken, and hopefully the Supreme Court and the Trump Administration will be able to do the right thing on congressional reapportionment. Thank you again for your testimony here today. You are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you also much for being here. The letter that i sent along about someoman of the allegations weve seen come out in regard to the 2020 in michigan. 20 ,esponse rate was about with some tracks as low as 4. 4 . What does it mean when you say is it me getting the form and responding to it directly . Also been a huge internet response option. This was an option that they had in effect, almost 80 of the responses they got, of self responses, came through the internet. So the next strategy for the employee all the policies and protocols and things like that so they can get a more accurate account. What are some of the other processes they have in place . Would berst big step hundred thousand census takers going out and knocking on doors. Unsuccessful, they would then use of proxy, knowledgeable person that could complete that for them. Withalso supplemented that administrative records, and at the inn, if neither of those work, there will be a small category for they will use statistical imputation. [indiscernible] organizing and doing that stage that was talked about. There are multiple types of outreach programs. It was alleged the bureau did not file proper protocols and necessary supports for every person. Mr. Benson had publicly said that he was a census worker in Macomb County which is a nearby iunty to my district, which represent wayne county. It was handled extremely well. He specifically said what i found was, when i reach out to people i knew working in the entire census, they had not even started yet. Received any cases. These are census workers in detroit. [indiscernible] proxies, it was unsafe and unorganized. Some days i could read cases until 5 00 p. M. Given there were around 100,000 nonresponding detroit households that need to be istacted, why [indiscernible] important with these Response Rates . Provides thense best data. Research clearly shows this, the Census Bureaus own research. Now, therecated just are a whole number of options that can rule the day, so to speak. For example, the use of administrative records to determine whether a unit is occupied or not. Rep. Tlaib i know what you mean, but its important for theracy, and these are processes. What if the processes werent followed . Many are looking to see what the federal number is, but you know. This means that communities like mine are going to get undercounted because they did not apply the same standards in detroit as they did in nearby now a number of families of color like it is in wayne county. That is beenn, established. What we have to figure out is whether every census has people who come forward. The metrics that were mentioned will give us a look into that world. It is data about the process. That information will give us a glimpse into what youre talking about. That is one of the reasons why we have to get it, because if were going to have confidence that detroit will be properly enumerated, we have to get our hands on that information. Rep. Tlaib i would love to work with you directly in making sure , and again, information is going to come out. I urge our committee to play a leadership role. Without having enough folks on the ground and being able to get folks back to work again, for , im not to have enough work just do think we need to fully investigate that. Rep. Maloney thats a good point. Our last questioner is vice chair jimmy gomez. You are now recognize. Chair. K you, madam i really appreciate that we are having this hearing. The census is something weve cared about since i got to congress, and something i been working on. A lot of my fears came true. Anylowest response of Congressional District in california, and probably one of the lowest ones nationwide. So we have been concerned and we have been asking for documents from the Census Bureau or the promised Commerce Department time and time again to get the documents and hear about the issue from the press is really disheartening. So i have some questions that i , so haskind of get into the Census Bureau provided all the information to gir that you requested about the data anomalies discovered by career staff at the bureau . That itnderstanding is is under review by the general counsel. The department of commerce said the department of justice should be bound up with the litigation. Bureau talked about the number of times they have been identified . No sir, they have not, for the same reasons. Is at the first time the department of congress has withheld information and declined to answer questions from the gao . Been it certainly has gotten more problematic in recent months and certainly since the middle of december it has been very difficult to get information. We have not been flat out denied anything, but things are taking an extraordinary amount of time. For instance, the plan that was announced in august, we are still waiting for detailed information on that. In particular, how the Census Bureau was going to be able to take what had originally been a 150 day plant processing, then it went down to 90, and now the deadline will be 77 days. We just want to be able to say how are you going to do that . So we are waiting for information on that anyway. They were supposed to explain it ahead of time before they did it. Its over, the count is done, and you still havent received any of that information. I will give you one for typical one particular example. The state typically has subject reviews that review all the data. On the basis of these reviews, every single state had to have their numbers rerun. It may have identified questions are things that were sufficient that we were in the numbers. The Time Available for these this time around, we want to know what if anything has been cut out of that, or what are they doing to make sure it will still be a quality review . Again, we are waiting on the department of commerce. Im glad you brought it up because some in my state have been concerned about how that will impact. So thank you for bringing that up. Of the past few years, how many recommendations have the bureau given to the Census Bureau . 120 declarations and the great majority of those have been accepted by the Census Bureau and we been able to make improvements as a result of that. Getting us access to the information is helpful to us. Its good from a transparency standpoint but it also helps us dinner five targeted and specific improvement opportunities which our experience has shown leads to an improved census. So it isnt just a geeky access kind of issue. This helps us, actually helps the bureau improve the undertaking of the census. Numberou have a rough that they have accepted and implemented . Almost 120 over 90 of them have been accepted. The report we are issuing today that talks about the need for the transparency on the data that weve been discussing all throughout this hearing, that is one where the Commerce Department has accepted that recommendation and we are hoping that will be implement it as well. Thank you so much. It is to improve the process, so i want to thank you. Also i applaud the chairwomans efforts to obtain the critical documents from the department of commerce. I would like to ask if the committee sent a request for the information gao is seeking as well. Theres no reason this committee as the states well demographers, when it comes to their request for information and how that is impacting how much information it got, what is then cut out. That their, we know secretary is withholding the documents from us and they basically admitted they are concealing it from the judiciary. I think we need more transparency. [indiscernible] the gentlemans time has expired. You are now recognize. Thank you, madam chair. It is our responsibility to hold hearings to ensure the integrity of the 2020 census. Its unfortunate that we didnt have any witnesses from the staff, employees of the Census Bureau. I think that all the data that we been given proves that everything is going according to director i applaud dealing him. I think hes been transparent with both democrats and republicans on the committee. I look forward to getting that census data and hopefully we will be able to do what a toority of americans want, have a true and accurate count of every Single Person in america, and we will have a count that issues for congressional reapportionment that excludes all undocumented immigrants. Thats what the American People want, and thats what our position is. Be able toill achieve that. With that i yield back. Rep. Maloney the gentleman yields back. Clear. Sage is loud and the 2020 census is in grave danger. Testified today that data errors identified by career officials at the Census Bureau are serious, and must be fixed. They warned that if the Trump Administration cuts short the process of fixing the problem, the census count risk being inaccurate and incomplete. We call this hearing because the Trump Administration refused to share information with this committee about these Critical Data errors. We had to learn about these major problems from reading the newspaper. When we ask for documents about these problems, the Commerce Department blocks them. Thank fleet we were able to rely on other sources to get at least some of these internal documents. We went to secretary ross yesterday at gave him one week to produce a complete and unredacted set of documents. , that heted last month could very well face a subpoena. Im open torlier, calling secretary ross to testify under oath before this committee that he does not produce the document that we requested. In closing, i want to thank our panelists for their remarks and i want to commend my colleagues for participating in this important hearing. , all members have five days with which to submit additional questions which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able. And wearing is adjourned are off to a vote. Cspans washington journal, every day we take your calls live on the air, on the news of the day. We will discuss policy issues that impact you. Coming up friday morning, well talk about the plan house boat on the act that would decriminalize marijuana. Didnt Florida Democratic congresswoman Stephanie Murphy on the future of the Democratic Party and the priorities of the Blue Dog Coalition in the new congress. In california congressman mcclintock discusses decriminalizing marijuana at the federal level, and other news of the day. Watch live at 7 00 eastern monday morning, and be sure to join the discussion. Coming up live on friday, the house returns at 9 00 a. M. For debate on the marijuana decriminalization bill. Thats not 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. At two 40 5 p. M. , former president barack obama at a Virtual Campaign rally for georges Democratic Senate candidates, both facing runoff elections on january 5. , former House Speaker john boehner, joe crowley and Rodney Slater look at the key decisions in the transition from a Trump Administration to a biden administration. At 10 45 a. M. , how Speaker Pelosi holds her Weekly Briefing with reporters. With the peaceful transition of president ial power following election in doubt, to historians talk about two of the most contentious president ial transitions in u. S. History. In 1861, between James Buchanan and Abraham Lincoln, and in 1933, between Herbert Hoover and franklin roosevelt. States didsouthern not recognize the election of Abraham Lincoln is legitimate. For the fact that by large his support came from nonslave states. So no sooner had he been elected that South Carolina makes good on his promise to proceed toward seceding from the union. Choice even the resounding nature of the vote in the way it was reported in the press. It was clear he had lost the election, but he never conceded, he continued to believe that the new deal, as roosevelt had framed it during the campaign and begin to work towards it after the election, represented a fundamental threat toward the american way of life, so he devoted himself to preventing roosevelt from being able to enact it. Contentious president ial transitions, sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. At congressional investigations into Cyber Security threats from the Aspen Institute cyber summit. From mark warner, a texas congressman, and illinois representative laura underwood. I want to welcome our guests, and also to remind folks that please submit questions and ill try to get to them before the end of our session today. We just heard from the ch