Welcome everybody. My name is Doug Bradburn, founding director of the library for the study of George Washington here at beautiful mount vernon and delighted to welcome you all again for a wonderful evening of conversation in history. And i would also like to welcome the cspan audience who was recording as the cd. Its great to have you back in the library. Will these evening book talks are special for friday of reasons because we get to bring exciting new historians to the eager community, but also because it sponsored by forbes which is been a great donor to mount vernon for many, many years. As you all know Mount Vernon Ladies Association does not take any government money. Its completely private institution based on philanthropy a base of people coming to the estate. So we depend on groups like the ford family and the Ford Motor Company has supported mount vernon, since henry ford gave the first fire engine to mount vernon to keep the Mansion House and burning to the ground. So as some of you know its an ongoing challenge. In fact, you welcome to donate to our Fire Suppression efforts right now. I would like to welcome you all out here. Before we begin the main event i also want to mention some Upcoming Library programs which we saw some tickets available. Our annual Martha Washington lecture featuring, discussing peaking sensual women as consumer on both sides of the atlantic. That will be a fantastic conversation led by our own susan was a senior curator at mount vernon. We have the first of three Michelle Smith lectures come at featuring George Goodwin discussing Benjamin Franklin in london, the british life of americans founding father on march 30. Thats one you want to try to sign up for. I met george in london at the Benjamin Franklin house which is an extraordinary Little House Museum and yes god an extremely large personality i think you all will particularly enjoy him and his discovery of franklins life in london. Lets get to the main event right away. We are exceptionally pleased to have with us doctor Eric Armstrong dunbar from university of delaware with us tonight. You might have seen a featured in the New York Times recently and on many npr programs but this is where she belongs talking about a very important subject pictures seeger degree from columbia university. In 2011 she she became the inaugural director of the program and africanamerican Library Company philadelphia. They should a call to the founding director. Her first book, fragile freedom, africanamerican women and emancipation in the antebellum city published by yield, extremely wellregarded and important study of an understudied topic up to that point, so the perfect person to take on the challenge to recover the story of ona judge. Lets all give eric a big round of applause. [applause] good evening, everyone. Happy black history month. Here i am at. So first let me offer a few thank yous posted Doug Bradburn who invited. I think there should be no the place i can be when you get this topic can you all see me . I am vertically challenged. Lets see, see if this is better. Better . Yes, okay. And it also like to say thanks to Stephen Emily for helping with arrangements to arrive here. Here. Its been a very, very busy week. This book just came out on tuesday of last week, and so im an academic and as ducks had my first book was published with Yale University press, and this book is more of a sort of crossover trade book for a larger more general audience. Its a different experience, one thats been rewarding but different and im a little tired. So forgive me if my voice comes in and out. Ive been talking more than usual. So tonight its such a pleasure to be here, to be really where the story where ona judge life begin pickets mount vernon. What i would do tonight is to talk a little bit, ill read a little bit from the book, and give you a little context, to some slides about here we are on stereo. And to give you a little context about ona judges life and really sort of what i wanted to do with this book. About 20 years ago i was doing some research on my first book about africanamerican women in the north. And i came across an advertisement for a runaway, and enslaved person who had run from the president s house in philadelphia, may 1796. And i was sort of caught up looking through microfilm at old newspapers, but this made me pause. And i said wait, who is this person who ran away . She was named ona judge in the advertisement. And if i wait a minute, i dont know this person. That was troubling to me because this is my area of expertise. Im supposed to know all of this stuff and ive no idea who this person was. And there was something that was very sort of compelling about this advertisement, never sort of escaped me. And i said im going to come back to this important story. Im going to try and trace this woman. I need answers. So i finished the first book and here i am, many years later. It was a lengthy process in attempting to recover the work of the life of ona judge. This is recovery work, for those of us to do specifically early africanamerican history, doing this kind of work in archives where the evidence is slim, factual evidence often doesnt exist because people of color, women in particular, often remain outside of the archives. And so what i will say is that theres absolutely no way i couldve written this book have not written my first book. So thats my plug for graduate students and people who are really doing the work of academics. I needed grounding in order to be able to write this book about a woman who is really just absolutely magnificent come when you read this book, you will be blown away by her life. Many folks are in this room and, of course, at mount vernon, this is no new story. We know about ona judge, and you are among a small group of people, actually now i hope there many more who know her. Thats the expectation. I want her name to become one of those sort of household names, like a frederick douglass, like Harriet Tubman. Because she runs away decades before they do. So the title, ill give you a sort of trick story about the title never caught. This is actually one of my first choices for the title of the book and i presented it to some people at the publishers, and they hated it. They said it gives away the story, erica. I said but so does 12 years a slave. Honestly, we understand, right . It was 12 years. Going to end at some point. With never caught, this is really a history of how a woman who was a fugitive. Never found freedom. She was never free. She simply was never caught. I think its a big distinction one that i wanted to make, special as i was trying to kind of dismantle what we think about slavery in the south and the north at this moment where the nation is new. And if it its one of the other things i was really kind to do with this book was to allow us to see what the early days of this new country looked like to the eyes of the enslaved. And her life gives us that opportunity to look at early virginia, new york, pennsylvania and New Hampshire. And begin to sort of follow her life and look at how this nation is changing, how its grappling with the issue of slavery, all of these very kind of central issues to this new nation, this time we are doing it through a a young black woman who made the choice to run away. So as i i said i will read a b. I will talk and we will look at a few slides, and we will walk together on this journey of onas life. Spring rain drenched the streets of philadelphia in 1796. The weather in the city of brotherly love was often fickle at this time of year. Vacillating between extreme cold and oppressive heat. But rain was almost always appreciated in the nations capital. It erased the putrid smells of rotting food, animal waste, and fill that permeated the cobblestone roads of this new nation it reminded philadelphians that the law and punishing winter was behind them. Spring rain cleansed the streets and souls of philadelphians. It ushered in optimism and hope, and a feeling of rebirth. And in the midst of the promises of spring, ona judge, a young lack enslaved woman, received devastating news. She learned that she would leave philadelphia, a city that had become her home. Judge would travel back to virginia, and prepare herself to be bequeathed to her owners granddaughter. Today i will introduce one of the most understated fugitive slaves in america. At the age of 22, judge stole herself from the washingtons. Forcing the president to show a slave catching hand. As a fugitive, judge would test the president s will and his reputation. The most important man in the nation heralded with winning the American Revolution could not reclaim this enslaved woman. Ona judge did what very few others could do. She beat the president. Judge was never caught. Now, i normally show this next slide. You all dont need it because we are here at mount vernon and it is actually an older slide but this is when im on the road and doing my dog and pony show. There are of course earlier images, but i but i always trio give this image of the people have an idea of what the Mansion House, where she was for such a long time of her life, for a good 16 years, and so of course you all, were here so you dont need this. But today i will introduce what im calling, im calling her a new american hero. A slave girl raised at mount vernon who once exposed to the ideas of freedom was compelled to pursue it at any cost. This was a woman who found the courage to defy the president , the wit to find allies, to escape, to negotiate, to run, to survive. Her story at this point we can tell is really the only existing lengthy account of the fugitive once held by the washingtons, at least hold from her mouth to interviewers. It is perhaps the only fugitive account from any slave in 18th century virginia whose life exposes the sting of slavery, the drive of defiance. She guarded what would become sort of freedom for her every day of her life. Never regretting her decision to fight for what she believed to be her right, and that was freedom. In 1789, we know that washington was elected first president of the United States, travel to new york, the nations first capital. And he and Martha Washington would take with them seven slaves from mount vernon. This is a sketch of federal hall where president washington would take the oath of office in new york. So he would take eventually martha would make her way up to new york. She was unhappy about the move. She made that known to everyone, but she went and they took seven enslaved people with them from mount vernon. And ona judge was one of them. She would be taken from her mother, betty, and her other siblings. Going to read a bit from the book. To give you an idea of what that moment must have been like. The young ona judge was far from an experienced traveler. The teenager you only mount vernon and its surroundings, and had never traveled far from her family and loved ones. For judge, the move most of an the dreaded auction block. Although she was not to be sold to a different owner, she was forced to leave her family for an unfamiliar destination hundreds of miles away. Judge would have no choice but to stifle the terror that she felt, and to go on about the work of preparing to move, folding linens, packing Martha Washingtons dresses and personal accessories, and helping with the grandchildren. These were all things that ona judge would be involved in. They were at the tasks at hand, and it was in her place to complain or question. Judge had to remain strong and steady. If not for herself, then for her mistress who appeared to be falling apart at the seams. Like judge, Martha Washington had no choice about the move to new york. Her life was at the direction of her husband, who was now the most powerful man in the country. Mrs. Washington and ona judge may have shared similar concerns but, of course, only Martha Washington was allowed to express discontent and sorrow. Martha washington was unhappy, and everyone knew it, including her frightened slave. The president s of nephew robert lewis would also soon be made aware of it when he arrived at the estate on the 14th, things were in disarray. Lewis, who served as washington secretary between 178991 was chosen to escort his aunt and her grandchildren to new york, but was surprised and a bit concerned when he arrived to find a frenzied and hectic scene. Lewis wrote quote, everything appeared to be in confusion, end quote. The manifestation of mrs. Washingtons conflicting feelings. Robert lewis described the departure which finally took place on may 16, 1789, as an emotional moment for the slaves and the first lady. Quote, after an early dinner and make all necessary arrangements in which we were greatly, it brought us to 3 00 in the afternoon when we left mount vernon. The servants of the house and a number of the field negroes made their appearance to take leave of their mistress. Numbers of these poor wretches seemed pretty agitated, much affected. My aunt equally so. Betty, ona judges mother, mustve been one of those agitated slaves. Not only was she losing her 16yearold daughter, but she is also losing her son, austin, who would serve as one of the washingtons waiters. Austins wife charlotte and their children would have joined in the morning. Betty watched her children leave mount vernon, reminder of what little control slave mothers had over the lives of their children. Children. If she found any comfort in that day, it would have been that brother and sister were traveling together. Austin was older, and mail, and could look out for his younger sister. Still, baiting you that her relationship with her children would never be the same betty knew that. The washingtons would travel to new york and would really, their visit was relatively brief. Pretend that you see the president s house. It was a lithograph, an image of a lithograph from the president s house which right now for those of you familiar with philadelphia, if you go to the liberty bell and the constitution hall. The house is actually right there and ill tell you, this is sort of an aside, when i was watching kind of the preelection coverage and there was a speech given by former president barack obama and hillary clinton, it was smack in the middle of this courtyard at Independence Hall and im watching kind of the visual with the crowds and what have you and off to the right was where the actual president s house stood and i thought, wow, here we are, im watching in moment and off to the righthand side, ona is still there. She wont let me go. She followed me everywhere. February, 1796, brought a palpable unease to the executive mansion in philadelphia. A thick tension prompted ona judge and her enslaved companions to tread lightly around george and Martha Washington. Enslaved men and women moved about their days with caution, not knowing what events could sour or sweet and owners mood. For the slaves who resided in the same walls with an owner life could be akin to Walking Around a field embedded with land mines. The smallest of matters, such as the accidental breaking of a dish, or inconveniently timed bad weather, could alter the disposition of an owner. Although the president did not earn the reputation as being a violent or physically extremely punishing slave owner, he did on occasion lose his temper. Ona judge moved through her daily tasks at the president s house with a smooth watchfulness, perhaps attending to marsha washington with extra care as she helped her dress for the day. For seven years, judge had served her mistress well up north. She became Martha Washingtons closest body slave. All who knew the washingtons on a personal level were familiar for judge for she often accompanied her mistress on social calls. Since moving to new york and philadelphia, the first ladys life was filled with socializing and public events. So its important to realize that this relationship between mistress and enslaved person, at least for ona judge, it was a relationship, not in the best ways, but she was around Martha Washington constantly, intimate, bathing dressing combing hair and heard everything that went on in the mansion. Judge knew her mistress and now how much washington loved her grand children. Shed outlived every one of her children fathered by her first husband. She had no choice, but to look to her grandchildren for hope and enjoyment. Although she was only 27 years old when she married George Washington, their marriage never yielded offspring. After the death of her son john, martha and George Washington welcomed two of his small children into their home, raising them up through adulthood and i think thats interesting to think about the kind of intergenerational relationship or community that was actually there from the beginning with the first preside president. Hope we have a picket. We do. Judge must have witnessed the shock and concern of her owners the president received a letter from eliza, a stepchild informing of her intention to marry. Eliza wrote of her engagement to thomas law, a british businessman who came to america only recently before in 1794, and became involved in Land Development in and around the federal city. Law met eliza, who was 20 years his junior and a romance turned into an engagement. Elizas father was deceased and in some ways, George Washington stood in as one of the appropriate surrogates to approve or reject the marriage proposal. The news must have sent the executive mansion in a tailspin. Although it was personal business, everyone who lived in the president s house knew what was happening and its interesting when we read some letters that john adams writes about this kind of interesting situation, this relationship that eliza custis law was, and he writes home about the situation. Neither george nor Martha Washington knew about the seriousness of the relationship between eliza and law. And there was much to be concerned about with this union. Law arrived in america with two of his three children, both of whom were the offspring from a relationship with an indian woman. They were biracial. His biracial children and his age most certainly raised the eyebrows of the washington and there were concerns he might decide to go back to england and could take eliza with him. Ona judge watched her owner feel their way through the dramatic events of february of 1796. Martha must have turned to optimism because she began to publicly announce the matrimony, she moved through her concern, her fear and anger not knowing about this and began to think about the union in the most positive way possible. Ona judge had no idea that the acceptance of the marriage by both george and marsha washington would begin the unravelling of her life. So eliza park custis married thomas law in march and the marriage signaled the beginning of major changes for the washington and for their slaves. Judge most certainly knew that her time in philadelphia was limited. By the march wedding of eliza, close family knew that George Washington would not run again for president. This was no secret in the executive mansion. And eventually all of their lives would change, once they returned to mt. Vernon. The idea of reconnecting with loved ones in virginia must have given some of the slaves in the executive mansion reason to celebrate, but judge had lived in the north for seven years. And the thought of returning to mt. Vernon did not settle well. A return to mt. Vernon was a reminder to judge and her enslaved companions that they were considered the property of another person. And after living in a free northern city, this was a difficult concept to swallow. For ona judge, however, the uncertainty vanished as her fate was revealed, and i think its important to realize that ona judge comes to philadelphia as a teenager. Shes 17, 16, 17 years old and she spends these kind of formative years in philadelphia watching free black philadelphia grow. She watched Richard Allen build mother bethel around the corner just about. She saw free black men and women selling pepper pot soup and fruit on the streets. They were entrepreneurs. And it wasnt necessarily easy, but she saw freedom. She could almost feel it, taste it, smell it. She would go to the circus, go to the theater, these are things she would never have been able to do in virginia. And then with the marriage of eliza, she realizes that her fate, or at least her fate was revealed. This marriage and change of life circumstances would cut judges residence in philadelphia short. Unlike the other slaves of the executive mansion, ona would not return to philadelphia from her annual summer sojourn to mt. Vernon. Judge would not be around to witness the president s final months in office. Martha washingtons deep concern for her granddaughter trumped any relationship that she may have forged with judge. And since eliza entered into a marriage for which she was unprepared, the first lady made a decision the term first lady was not used then, but i use it as part of this narrative that ive offered. The first lady made a decision that would help her grand daughter navigate through the transition of marriage. She would give ona judge to eliza custis. Although judge had earned the top spot among Martha Washingtons personal slaves, there was no way for judge to amass enough personal or emotional capital to convince her owner to change her mind. Judges fate was now in the hands of eliza custis law, a woman approximately the same age and was known for having a difficult, sometimes volatile temper. I always show this image because i figure it sort of gives us an idea of eliza, she was a force to be reckoned wi with. Sometimes he think maybe she got a little bit of a bad rap, but her family wrote about her temper and this would have been something that ona judge was familiar with. A shift to the household of the irritable and volcanic eliza custis law would most likely doom judge to a life of poor treatment and uncertainty and she simply couldnt let that happen. Im going to read another passage from the book to give you an idea of what that moment was like for her. Judge knew what the future held, should she not heed the advice of her free black associates. She supposed if she went back to virginia she would never have the chance to escape. Once she learned that upon the decease of her master and mistress she would become the property of a granddaughter of theirs by the name of custis she knew that she had to flee. She imagined her work for the laws would begin immediately not after the death of her owners prompting a fierce clarity about her future and her dislike for eliza custis law. In the interview at the end of her life she said, quote, she was determined never to be her slave. Her decision was made. She would risk everything to avoid the clutches of the new mrs. Law. Judge was wellinformed and knew that her decision to flee was far more than risky, but still, she was willing to face dog sniffing kidnappers and bounty hunters for the rest of her life. Yes, her fear was consuming, but so, too, was her anger. Judge could no longer stomach her enslavement and it was the change in her ownership that pulled the trigger on judges fury. She had given everything to the washingtons, for 12 years she had served her mistress faithfully and now, she was to be discarded like the scraps of material that she cut from Martha Washingtons dresses. Any false illusions she had clung to had evaporated and judge knew that no matter how obedient or loyal she may have appeared to her owners she would never be considered fully human. Her fidelity meant nothing to the washingtons. She was their property to be sold, mortgaged, or traded with whom ever the wished. The beast that slept in every slaves soul was awakened, confronted with the future, eliza law coaxed this out of the recesses of the mind and she believed what was her right, her decision to run was just the beginning of her liberation. The waiting was difficult. For nearly two weeks, judge had to calm her nerves and suppress her anger as allies completed the planning for her escape. She could not raise suspicions. So, judge worked in tandem with the rest of the household as they made the necessary preparations for a lengthy trip back to mt. Vernon. Judge later stated, quote, while they were packing to go to virginia, i was packing to go. I didnt know where for i knew that if i went back to virginia, i never should get my liberty. Judge kept her plans a secret. Making certain not to share information with anyone who lived in the executive mansion. She knew that fearful or jealous slaves were often responsible for foiled fugitive escapes. She decided to rely on the assistance of free blacks, who recited outside of the walls of the president s home. Not only did ona judge have to pack her things to leave, she also had to determine when she would escape. Although the executive mansions possessed more slaves and servants than most normal residence, judge was the preferred first ladys house slave and had to be available at all time for all reasons. There was only one duty from which shoo he was exempt, meals. Hercules and the staff prepared the meals. And judge sometimes had free time during the afternoon meals and between supper. Other slaves were assigned to the washington and they sometimes entertained dinner guests, extending into the evening and inviting guests to retire to the parlor to join some wine and additional conversation. This would be the only moment that judge could use to her advantage. And when the moment arrived, she gathered her steely nerves and fled. On saturday, may 21st, 1796, ona judge slipped out of the executive mansion while the washingtons ate their supper. She disappeared into the Free Black Community of philadelphia. Although we have judge makes this decision to leave, i think one they think that i want people to understand about the lives of fugitives is to remember that the plan to escape, to leave was almost always strategic and planned. It wasnt typically a whim or emotional and in the case of ona judge, we have this same thing in effect. Her escape would be careful, calculated. She knew the moment that she walked out of the president s mansion that her status as a trusted house slave for the most powerful American Family would immediately come to an end. No longer would judge be the favored slave of her mistress. Instead, she would be a fugiti fugitive. On may 23rd, 1796 fret rick kit, the house old steward to George Washington place add ad in the gazette. For the week after her disappearance, there were two papers, claypool daily american advise advertiser, the philadelphia gazette. Not the pennsylvania gazette. This is the moment i tell my student you cant believe everything you see on wikipedia. For a long time it was to the pennsylvania gazette. Thats incorrect, it was the philadelphia gazette and for a week they ran advertisements to attempt to recapture ona judge. In the philadelphia gazette we have this ad that describes ona judge and announces to the world that she had defied the president. From one of the ads absconded from the household of the president of the United States on saturday afternoon, ona judge, and i contend that they use she was called oni and written about as oni judge, i believe it was a diminutive of her name, a light girl with much freckled with bushy black eye. Middle stature, slender and delicately made about 20 years of age and this changes a little in the advertisements, this one offers, of course, a 10 reward about the cost of a barrel of flour, at that time. Another sort of interesting thing to note is that this advertisement offers the reward and is very clear as they say this 10 will be paid to anyone, white or black, this is written in the first ads that appear, subsequently that language was taken out, which i thought was interesting. But clearly this was a play to the Free Black Community who may have seen, witnessed or knew something about onas escape. Frederick kits ad alerted slave catchers to judges probable escape route, the delaware river. In his advertisements, he sends a strong warning to anyone who worked on the docks of philadelphias busy port, stating, quote, but as she may attempt to escape by water, all masters of vessels are cautioned against admitting them. His assumptions were correct, she escaped by boat. A combination of preparation, assistance from the black community, steely nerves, pushed the trusted enslaved woman to begin her life anew as a fugitive. And its at this point in the book where i sort of move into this transition of ona judge as an enslaved woman in virginia and then new york and philadelphia, to becoming a fugitive and her life changes instantly the moment she walks out of that door and it begins on her voyage to New Hampshire. Ill read just a bit. The crashing waves of the Atlantic Ocean hurled saddles and candles from one side of the storage hold to another. The smell of molasses and coffee was thick, nauseating passengers who were unaccustomed to sailing on frequent trips between philadelphia, new york and portsmouth. Trance sayings in the 18th century was never easy. And travelling by sea could be dangerous. Old and poorly infected ships in and out of cities with torn sails and worn caulking hoping to make it to the next port without incident. Ona judge had never before sailed on such a ship, a single massed sloop that could care you up to 75 people depending on the size of the cargo. These vessels were designed to haul freight from one coastal town to the next, but ship capitals like bowles earned extra money by allowing passengers to ride along. Any sea faring trip judge would have taken with the washingtons might have been enjoyable, short were the crossings in relatively luxurious vessels that judge had turned to know. But she had turned her back on all of that. Now on board the nancy, the ship was minimal, space was minimal and travelers lodged themselves wherever there was room. Once again, the fugitive found other self sleeping in tight quarters, but this time it was with strangers. Some who were travelling home to visit with family and friends, and others who, like judge, were leaving behind a difficult past for the possibilities of a new future in portsmouth. The unsettled sea lightly forced judges stomach to turn som somersalts. And there was temporary relief from seasickness. Surely other passengers suffered the same way, hanging their bodies over the sloop and releasing the contents of their stomach into the atlantic. Every morning when the sun lifted, lifted itself above the horizon, judge would have looked out across the ocean, thankful to have survived another day away from other owners, but, still, she was terrified. For five days, judge contained her fear. She could not appear too nervous, as passengers were already throwing quick and curious glances toward the lightskinned black woman who traveled alone. She knew the washingtons were looking for her and that by now, her name and a bounty probably appeared in many of the philadelphia newspapers. She wondered how much of a reward was attached to her recapture, a thought sent her eyes to the strangers on board, surely none of the washingtons agents made to the bowls ship, but she wouldnt know until she went to New Hampshire. And judge would have dressed in inconspicuous clothing, allowing her to hide in plain sight. She was a hunted woman, and would try to pass not for white, but as a free black northern woman. Ona would have to fight to stay free. The washingtons would pursue her for years up until, really, three months before the president died. So for years, ona had to try and figure out how to remain never caught. And we have i want to show a few of the kind of archival tidbits that i was able to pull while i was working on this project for nine years. The researching and writing really took almost a decade and during my process of researching, i kind of scanned this moment when digitization was just starting. And newspapers, thank goodness, are digitized now and it sped things up as we went along. This is one of the newspapers that i looked through early on in my project and this is another one of those oh, jump for joy moments when youre looking for in the archives. Of course, this is an announcement, a marriage announcement in this town, and mr. John staines, to ona judge. And they spelled that among. Shes been gone seven months and in that time shes been able to find a husband and not only did she find a husband, but she didnt go by an alias, when she reported, or got married and had to report to the paper about this marriage. Now, this is also another note for graduate students and scholars happy about digitization. Just to see this image is important, right . This is sort of an act of her life, her resistance, maybe . But if you pull up the whole page of the newspaper, of course, i dont have that slide here, but the front page of this newspaper was George Washingtons announcement to the fair people of New Hampshire, thanking them for his for being good citizens, as he prepared to depart. And so, whats hilarious to me, we have George Washington making this statement to the great people of New Hampshire, and in the column next to it is his slave that ran away, marthas slave that just ran away. Looking at the entire document gives you a better sense of the kind of resistance from ona judge, whether she knew it, whether she meant to be that much of a sort of resisting person, we dont know. Ona judge would make her way to freedom or relative freedom. She would live out her days in and around greenland, New Hampshire. And she evaded washingtons slave catching acquaintances for her entire life. She had a family herself. Married, children, worked as a domestic to the end of her days, although she endured the trials of poverty and fugitive status until her death, judge moved forward. Her life was a difficult one, but freedom was worth it. And ill show you my last slide of the evening, is a little bit of one of the first interviews that ona judge grants. Im not going to tell you everything about New Hampshire because you know, youve got to buy the book and read the book, i dont want to give everything away, but remember, the book is called never caught so you know there will be tension in New Hampshire. And this came from the freedom, an abolitionist newspaper, appeared in may of 1845, and it was at this point ona judge was in her early to mid 70s, and she grants an interview. And i wouldnt necessarily call ona judge an abolitionist, im not sure she saw herself as such. She was simply asked to tell they are story. One thing ive noticed ive spent time with my own mother and time with my grandparents and the older you get, the more likely you are to say whats exactly on your mind without much filter. And i think we have a bit of that here where ona judges interviews. She explains why she ran away, how she ran away and why it was important, but also, that she didnt regret it even though her life was terribly difficult. She never regretted it. She would spend nearly 50 years as a fugitive and the children that she had were also fugitives because slavery followed the Apron Strings of the mother. So, the stakes were even higher once ona went to New Hampshire and attempted to be to remain never caught. For 50 years she was a fugitive in hiding, but im certain that she never wanted to be forgotten. Theres a publication of this book, everyone will now know her name. Thank you. [applause] so i think well do some q a. We have two microphones stationed at either side of the room. Room. Thank you. Were you able to talk to descendents and get oral histories . Good question about descendents and oral histories. So, how do i say this without giving away part of the story. The descendents directly related to ona judge dont exist, but there are descendents connected to her half siblings, and theres been some correspondents between the library and some of the folks who claim to be descendents. I actually purposely chose not to go, to bark up that tree although maybe thats a second project, i dont know. But what we do have is a record of some of her half siblings and what happens to them once ona leaves. And one of her siblings, a soldier, whose name was philadelphia, is i know, interesting. So, philadelphias actually forced to take onas place and she goes to work for eliza custis law. Youve got to buy the book, dont want to tell you everything, a chapter and epilogue that explains poignantly we have two examples of women in the early 19th century trying to find freedom. We have ona doing it as a fugitive, and as youll see in the book, we have her sister attempting to do it in other ways. So, it gets us back to this issue of women attempting to fight for their freedom, but there is a story there. Philadelphia marries a man named william and becomes part of a wellknown family in washington d. C. And ill go ahead and tell you that philadelphia does find her freed freedom. Her freedom. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the Free Black Community in philadelphia that the way that they might have been planning to assist her . A great question about the philadelphia the community of free blacks in philadelphia and how they came to her aid. I think one of the important things about this story, this history, is that it highlights the importance of networks, right . And in particular of communities, free people of color. Philadelphia in the 1790s was the epicenter of free black life. It outpaced new york, gradual, the gradual end of slavery began in 1780 in pennsylvania with the gradual abolition that stated you could only be held for a slave up to 28 years and we saw some elongation of that in some instances, but, really, where ona judge lived was very close to many free blacks and so we have thousands of free blacks living in and around philadelphia. One thing that is important to note is that ona judge never names names and she couldnt do it for fear of reprisal. Those who helped her broke the federal law. They could be imprisoned and fined so she simply referred to them as free people of color, or the colored people of philadelphia. A couple of the stories, including myself, believe that Richard Allen, known for the creation of mother bethel in philadelphia, was likely involved in some way or another in her escape. He was known for assisting fugitives and interestingly enough in the account books, held at the philadelphia executive mansion, a week before ona runs off its noted that shes given money to buy new shoes. Smart, youre going to run away, you need new shoes. And Richard Allen was a Chimney Sweep and served the household of the president and clean out the chimneys there. Plans they interkt aed, and he also had a shoe shop in his home. He was a sort of jackofalltrades. So some of us, including Richard Newman who wrote on Richard Allen believed there was some kind of a connection between her and Richard Allen. But weve seen outside of philadelphia a greg free black population who clearly helped her, and the only one. John bowles because she named his name, she made it clear in her interview, she was only naming his name because she knew he was deceased so he wouldnt get in trouble, but it was very clear that following the ship reports that pulled into philadelphia, his ship was in philadelphia at exactly the time that ona judge ran away and made it back to portsmouth the beginning much june. And thats how i figured out the ship was called the nancy by looking at ship advertisements. So clearly the Free Black Community was involved with her and with her fugitives, of her becoming a fugitive. The same holds true in New Hampshire and shes very clear that she nets help and assistance from the free black population of New Hampshire. Now, the population was tiny. When she arrived at portsmouth. There were more black people at mt. Vernon than at portsmouth. Still maybe, its a lovely city, ive spent time there and its gorgeous. When i realized she went to portsmouth. Portsmouth, why port mouth . I realized she couldnt fw to new york, she was a known entity, a face that was recognizable. And perhaps the same was true in boston and she said she didnt know had her interviews where she was going so its likely that the free black people who helped her didnt tell her for fear of, you know, problems that perhaps she would tell the plan or be found out so she tonight know where shes going until she disembarks and once shes in New Hampshire she wants a Free Black Community there who harbors her, help her find work. And really, keeps her safe jaefr time one of washingtons agency r agents or family members came after her, they always shell tered her and harbored her and what this book does is show the Free Black Community in the end of the 18th and early 19th century. A few years ago, i read a wonderful Childrens Book to my daughter about oney judge. Were you part of the project . No, i know, it was diane turner, shes written a Childrens Book, i wasnt a part of that, but i know her work and im glad that there i think there are two Childrens Books about ona judge. And now theres some interest about a kind of young adult version so im working on that. Stay tuned. The slide you have up there right now. Whoops. You did have up there, it said something to the effect that she didnt remember what year it was and im kind of surprised at that, you would think it would be burned in her memory . Yeah, i think it would be burned in ones memory, but ill let you sneak in and come off and just talk louder. I think we also have to think about the importance of history and especially what an interview at the end of ones life, although that was she gave us pretty good details, she does say, look, i cant remember the year. I didnt think thats too difficult. Youre coming back, thanks. I dont think thats too difficult to wrap around because personally, i cant remember what happened last week, let alone, you know, what year things happened in and i think she wanted to provide an interview that was as credible as possible, but she didnt lie, and in some cases she says i cant remember, i dont know. And i think about that, 50 yooers as a fugitive at a time when as a fugitive and remember, she could not read or write and she doesnt become literate until the end of her life. So i think its possible, very possible that she doesnt remember and i appreciate the honest honesty. Did the pursuit of ona judge continue after the washingtons passed away . She says no. She never states that anyone else from marthas side of the family came after her. When we think about we know that Martha Washington in her will, the escape was transferred to her grandchildren so technically ona judge would have belonged to one of them. I looked through the inventory of the enslaved for all of those grandchildren, shes not noted anywhere on those lists. And in some ways, i some kind of thing, they just sort of gave up, but its a sort of fascinating story because her grandchildren really sort of moved in separate ways about slavely. We know that George Washington park custis is involved in one. And eliza custis some of her slaves and between the end of the 18th and early 19th century. Found a record of it and ona did not mention the possibility of being an attempted capture by any of the grandchildren. I knew thats an important point, but she was pursued i for at least three years, right . We know that, from the moment that she runs away until the death of George Washington, she was pursued. Even though there wasnt a sort of physical attempt to capture her, she knew that she was still their property. As long as slavery existed in the United States, she was never not she was always at risk. So i think its important to note that the grandchildren did not appear to go after her, maybe a document will fall out of a desk, if it does, im she always knew that she was a fugitive and that rang true to her and her children. Over here. Erica good work youve done here. Does ona have any insight of washingtons rebuilding, dealing with its layout. I wish she had, but she didnt. And we have really just two interviews from her and the information that she gives about George Washington and Martha Washington revolved around religion because it was clear that she became very religious during her life as a fugitive, which the judge is there before she became literate. Were not certain if she could write or not, but she could read. She talked about religion, the desire to not go to the granddaughters. She talked about the fact that she never regretted this decision. She didnt give us the intercassies of whats going on. I kind that fascinating, she knew everything, she was there, she witnessed the difficult moments, but never went there. She dependent give up that kind of personal information. She takes a few jabs at the washingtons, shes a slave, give her a break. She questioned whether George Washington was really religious, she said i never saw him pray. He went to church, but i dont think he played. I think thats a different viewpoint, but she doesnt give us those intricacientricacies. And i talk about bannon in the book and hes part of them. I find it interesting that you started your research on a bounty announcement, that you werent looking for at the time and then you hit the jackpot. [laughter]. By finding the interview. And i was wondering, was that part of your long process when you did that or what led you to find the report of the interview . Yeah, thats a jackpot. I do as a historian, i think i can say that i dont call it jackpot. I feel like this kind of recovery work is so important and to have this story out for a large audience is the same. I didnt necessarily ill be honest here, im doing it on cspan, but ill be honest here, i didnt know what i would actually find enough to write a book about ona. There were Childrens Books, maybe there were a chapter are here or there in a couple of sort of important by bying a why is there nothing on her . And i realized how long it took to do the research and there was nothing, no kind of monogra monograph dedicated to her because the materials of slim and thats why i said before, i couldnt have done this had i not written a fragile freedom which caught me everything about early philadelphia and new york, and sort of allowed me to ground this book in the communities of free people, in the kind of atmosphere of the street and also, what slavery looked like in philadelphia and in new york, and then, of course, in portsmouth. So, at first i didnt know if i be would able to do write a whole book and then as time kind of departmekept movin realized i can and she deserves it. What can you tell us about onas husband . And i think i noticed in the wedding announcement that the last name her last name was spelled with a g at the beginning rather than a j and i wondered if that was to maintain some anonymity and secrecy. The question was about her husband jack stane and also went by john. What i was able to find he was a free black man. He was a sailor, a seaman. And that was an opportunity for black men. Opportunities were free and far between. Black men typically had to look to the seas to earn a living and sometimes it was sporadic money, but you would get your money all at once and thats the jackpot moment where you brought home your earnings. It was dangerous work. The minute you left portsmouth or philadelphia or what have you and sailed to other locations, she knew that she had married a sailor and he would be away for long periods of time. And thats a protection that many looked to for marriage, having a male or a husband, a spouse who could help, especially a free person, it wasnt always the play for ona. She spent a lot of time alone. At first when i was working on the book there were notes that he kind of disappeared from her family, that he just kind of fell off the face of the earth so it took me a long time trying to track down what happened. And so, i didnt bring an image of this, but i had another one of those moments when i found a death notice for him in the New Hampshire gazette. Jack stanes, died. Was there marital tension and did he run off. Shes alone after 1804, why is that . But that little death announcement and the fact that they offered one for him as a black man, was also significant. So, i was able to find that and piece that together about him. I dont know anything about his beginnings. I just know that he was a free black man. He married ona, they had children. And that their marriage was relatively short before he died and once again, kind of leaving ona to fend for herself in many ways. I wish this could be a story where, it was triumphant its triumphant in shes never caught, but life was really very difficult and it was the same way for ona as it was for many of the other free and enslaved and fugitives who were living in New Hampshire. Theyre passing the mic down. Thank you for all this wonderful information. My question is, as a fugitive, was there any physical description of her . Yeah, yeah. So, there were actually, well, aside from the advisement where we get a description of her as a young many with a. Shes about 22 when she runs off. And it kind of confirms what we think, what i know about her background, they described her as lighter complected with what we hear. Later on there were several accounts by local folks in portsmouth who wrote their kind of recollections of life and she made it into eventually she becomes known as, oh, yeah, the slave who ran away from washington. So people would come to the cottage where she lived and she was pretty poverty handcuff stricken and sometimes give her a dollar and she would tell them about her story. Ive seen her described as from very, very light complected, almost white, to copper colored, so so there are descriptions about her, none about her children, but about her. So we do have an idea, of course, unfortunately no image, but once again as a fugitive you wouldnt want people to necessarily know what you look like or at least talk about it. Can we have one more . Thank you. We just this past weekend were fortunate enough to go to the black History Museum and while we spent the afternoon we only made it through a few floors. You need sneakers for that place, yes. If we go back will there be any mention of ona judge or so, i went and gave a talk at the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture last week when the book came out. I wish there was, you know, a lot on her. No, there isnt, except for that, i went and gave a talk and so, you know, the exhibit can change and maybe that will happen, but they definitely one thing thats great is that theyre carrying the book in the bookstore, so it might not be in the exhibit, but you can at least buy the book in the bookstore and i think it has to do with the lack of the material culture connected to ona because as i said before she was a fugitive and left little behind in terms of a trace. If you go to the magnificent museum theres Harriet Tubman shaw, theres nat turners bible. So we have the remnants from other sort of famous displaced people and we dont really have anything in the material of culture that can be produced. This made it happen, without the material culture piece, theres definitely an engagement with ona judge and shes represented, but hopefully, that will make it into that grand building in d. C. Well, erica, thank you so much. Thank you. Lets give a round of applause. [applaus [applause]. Thanks. That was really fantastic. And youre not allowed to go yet. Were going to require her to stay and sign everybodys books and youre going to buy multiple copies. And i appreciate what you said about the exhibit here because you know, when we have the slavery conference, it had opened a week and curious to see how the scholars respond to it. And would you like to say anything . And one is here. I opened the show, and the conference, its a stunning exhibit visually and a lot packed in and i think sort of signals a moment from mt. Vernon thats important. Slavery is a difficult topic and to three throw yourself into it and connect the first president with the contradictions and hypocrisy and looking at him as a man and his ideas changing about slavery over time, you know, im super appreciative that that definitely makes it into the exhibit. So, actually ive heard positive comments about the exhibit and if you hasnt seen you definitely should and ona is there. Well, thank you, another round of applause. We need another chair. And thank you, cspan. Good night, everybody. You can buy the book there and join steven over there. All right. [inaudible conversations] each year since 1950 the National Book award is given out by the National Book foundation, an organization sponsored by the Publishing Industry and litter literary institution, past winners include david mccullough, joan did i havion and gore vidale. The winners of this years National Book award willen announced november 15th in nom city. Next on book tv one of the finalists for nonfiction, Shomberg Center who in his book bunk a history of plagiarism and hoaxes in america. We want to introduce you kevin young