Welcome everybody. I am the founding director for the study of George Washington and we are delighted to welcome you again with some conversation and history also the cspan audience recording us this evening it is great to have you back in the library. For the evening book talks are special for a variety of reasons to bring exciting stories to the community but also it is sponsored by ford who has been a great donor over many years. We do not take any government moneyhi completely private based on philanthropy so we depend on groups like the ford family and Ford Motor Company the first fire engine to keep the house from burning to the groundnd so with that ongoing challenge through the Fire Suppression efforts i would like to welcome you all out here but also to mention Upcoming Library programs the annual Martha Washington lecture to discuss 18th century women that is a fantastic conversation led by the senior curator the first of the three lectures coming up with Benjamin Franklin in london and that is one you definitely want to try to sign up for which was the extraordinary house museum with an extremely large personality. So lets get to the main event. We are exceptionally please to have doctor dunbar from the university of u delaware to be featured in the New York Times recently but this is where she belongs was a very important subject. In 2011 the dog youll director of the program of africanamerican history and the founding director. Her first book a fragile freedom published by yale is extremely w wellregarded and understudied topic up to that point with the challenge lets all give a big round of applause. [applause] good evening everyone happy black history month. Here i am left laugh so first let me offer a few think use thank you. There is no other place i should be to give this talk i have vertically challenged. [laughter] is this better . Also steve and emily to arrive here it has been a very busy week this book just came out tuesday so as an academic my with book was published the Yale University press this is more of a crossover trade book so it is a very different experience that is rewarding and i am a little tired so forgive me if my voice comes in and out talking more than usual. Tonight is such a pleasure to be here to be where the story begins i on mount vernon. I will read a little bit of you some context. Here we are. Ms. Judges life and what i wanted to do with this book but about 20 years ago i was doing some research on my first book about africanamerican women in the north but i came across an advertisement from a runaway running from the president s house in philadelphia. I was looking through the microfilm and i said wait. Who was this person who ran away . Was named in the advertisement i said wait. Ii know this person and this is my area of expertise onie judge and i didnt know who she was in it was telling about this advertisement never escaped me and i said i will come back to the story i will trace her because i needis answers. So now here i am manyy years later was a lengthy process to recover the work of the life of onie judge. To do early africanamerican history doing this in the archives with the evidence is more factual or doesnt exist because of people of color to remain so what i will say there is no way i could have written this book had i not written my first book for those that are really doing the work of the academics i needed a grounding to write this book of a woman who is magnificent when you read the book you will be blown away by her life so many hear from mount vernon this isnt new. We know about the judge and now more people will know her but i want her name to become a household name like Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman because she runs away decades before they do. So this is actually one ofst my first choices for the title resenting it to some people and the publishers hated it. They said you are giving away the story. [laughter] but so is 12 years a slave. We understand it will end at some point. It is a history of how a woman was a fugitive never found freedom. She was never caught that is a big distinction especially as i tried to dismantle slavery itself and the north and this moment when the nation to and this is one of theit other things i was trying to do was allow us to use what the early days of this new country looked like to be enslaved that is the opportunity of early virginia pennsylvania, new york and newo hampshire and can follow her life looking at how the nation i is changing grappling with slavery and this time through a young black woman who made the choice to run away. So i said i will read a bit and look at a few slides and walk through this journey of heran life. Entrenching the streets of philadelphia whether in the city of brotherly love this time of year vacillating between a extreme cold and heat rain was almost always appreciated in the nation affable lung capital to erase the filth that permeated the cobblestone road of the nation and reminded philadelphians the long and punishing winter was behind them the spring rain would clan the street to usher in optimism and hope with the feeling of rebirth onie judge a young black and slave woman receive devastating news to learn she would not leave philadelphia the city that had become her home but had to travel back to virginia to prepare herself squeeze to her owners granddaughter one of the most understudied fugitive slaves in america at the age of 22 judge stole herself from the washingtons as the fugitive she would test the president s will. The most important man in the nation to win then, revolution could not reclaim this enslaved woman. She did but very few others could do, she beat the president. Judge was never caught. I show this next line you dont need it but there are earlier images but i try to keep this so people know where she was for the long period of yearsfe during her 16 of course you all were here but today i will introduce calling her a new American Hero a slave girl raised at mount vernon with those ideas was compelled to perceive that at any cost she found the courage to defy w the president and to escape and out negotiate and survive. As we can tell only lengthy account of a fugitive once held by the washington perhaps the only fugitive account the judges expose the seeing of slavery and guarded what would become a freedom for her every day of the life never regretting the decision for what she believed to be her right. Which was freedom. In 1789, washington was elected first president of the United States traveling to new york, the nations First Capital and they would take with them seven slaves from mount vernon this is where president washington would take the oath of office eventually make her way up to new york he was unhappy about the move and made that known to everyone that she went and took seven slaves people with them and onie judge was one of them. She was taken from her mother and her other siblings. But to give you an idea what that moment must have been like. She was far from the experienced traveler. The teenager only knew mount vernon. That only meant the Auction Block although notd to be sold she was forced to leave her family for the unfamiliar destination hundreds of miles away. Judge would have no choice but to stifle the terror that she felt to go on about the work folding linens, packing dresses and personal accessories helping with grandchildren. These were all things that onie judge would be involved in with the task at hand and not her place to complain or question to remain strong and steady if not for herself for her mistress who appeared to be falling apart at the seams. Martha washington had no choice her life was at the direction of her husband who was now the most powerful man in the country they may have shared similar concerns but of course only Martha Washington could express discontent she was happy and everyone knew that. Including her pregnant slave. Also soon to be made aware things were in disarray. As 1789 and 81 chosen to escort his aunt and grandchildren to new york and to be a bit concerned with the hectic scene. And with those conflicting feeling. To describe that parts are on 1789 a emotional moment for theuo slaves quote after the early dinner to make necessaryry arrangements, and brought us to 3 00 oclock in the afternoonth to the servants of the house making their appearance to take leave of their my and equally so. But to be an agitated slave not only losing her 16yearold daughter but also with her son austin austins wife charlotte and then watched mount vernon what little control slave mothers had over the lives of their children. And if she found any comfort in that day it would w have been brother and sister were traveling together. And to look out for his youngerha sister but still they knew the relationship would never be the same. The washingtons word travel to new york but onie judge would go with the washingtons one out of ninee enslaved people that were going to head south actually. Pretend you see the president s house. [laughter] it was an image of a f lithograph which actually right now the house is right there. E. Watching the preelection coverage former president barack obama andac Hillary Clinton smack in the middle of the courtyard of independence hall. And off to the right is where the president s house to and i thought here we a are, watching this moment and onie judge is right there she will not let me go. She is everywhere. February, 1796 bringing the unease the executive mansion a thick tension prompted onie judge and her enslaved companions to tread lightly around george and Martha Washington. Slave men and women moved about their days with caution not knowing what event sour or sweetening owners mood. A slave that was in the same household could m be like a landmine like the accidental breaking of a dish or bad weather could alter a decision of an owner although the president did not earn the reputation to be violent or extremely punishing slaveowner he would lose his temper on occasion. Perhaps attending to martha with extra care as she helped her dress. For seven years judge had served her mistress well. She became Martha Washingtons closest body slave they were all familiar with judge she often accompanied her mistress on social calls. Moving to new york than philadelphia her days were filled with socializing andta Public Events so it is important to really realize thisla relationship was very intimate not necessarily in the best of ways that was around her constantly helping her with the most intimate responsibilities like bathing or her hair and she heard everything that went on in the executive mansion. Judge understood her mistress and just how much Martha Washington loved her grandchildren every single one of her children were fathered by her first husband she had no choice to look to her grandchildren for hope and enjoyment and although only 27 when she married George Washington the marriage never yielded offspring. After the death of her son john martha and george welcome to appear small children into their home raising them into adulthood with that inter Generational Community was there from the beginning with the first president. Judge must have witnessed the shockhe and concern of her owners reading the mail on february 6. The president and then attention to mary with her engagement to thomas for british only recently to america and to be involved with land development. She was 20 years his junior and romance her into engagementea so in some ways washington stood in as the appropriate surrogate to approve or reject a marriage proposal. The news mustve sent the executive mansion into a tailspin everyone who lived within the walls knew exactly what was happening john adams writes about this situation and questions of who this thomas law was. Neither george nor martha and about the seriousness of this relationship between eliza and law. And there was much to be concerned about arriving in america with two of his three children both of whom were the office ring and they were biracial. His children and age raised eyebrows also concerned he could go back england taking eliza with him. Onie judge watched her owners feel their way through those dramatic events. Her concerns must have turned to optimism because then she announces the upcoming matrimony moving through her fear and anger to think about this union and the most positive way possible. To begin the unraveling of her life. So on march 21 the marriage signaled the beginning of major changes he most certainly knew time in philadelphia was limited by that march wedding that he would not run again and eventually all of their lives would change the idea with reconnecting with loved ones must have given some of the slaves reason to celebrate. Judge had lived in the north for seven years. The thought of returning to mount vernon did not go well. That was a reminder they were considered property of another person. After living in the free north this was a difficult concept to swallow. But for onie judge that uncertainty vanished as her fate was revealed. Onie judge comes to philadelphia as a teenager at 16 or 17 years old in these formative years watching free black philadelphia. She saw free black men and women selling apricots and fruit they were entrepreneurs. And it wasnt necessarily easy but she saw freedom. She can almost feel it or tasted or see it or smell it and go to the circus in the theaters and could never do in virginia. But then with the marriage of eliza but her fate was revealed. This would cut the residency short t. Unlike the other slaves she would not return to philadelphia. She would not be around to witness the president s final months in office. Martha washingtons deep concern for her granddaughter with any relationship she may have forged. That marriage that she was not prepared the first lady made a decision although that term isntt moved on use later but i do use it as part of the narrative. To help her granddaughter navigate the transition of marriage. She would give onie judge to allies. Although judge earned the top spot with her personal slaves those who have that emotional capital and then to change her mind. Her fate is now in the hands of eliza. Same age, to the be difficult and volatile temper. That she was a force to be reckonedne with. But her family wrote about her temper this would be something that onie judge was familiar with. And then most likely would have a life of poor treatment and uncertainty. But to give you an idea what that moment was like that judge what the future held with those free black associates. Going back to virginia she would never have a chance to escape. Once she learned upon the decease of her master and mistressy would be the property of a granddaughter of theirs there and she knew that she had to flee. Sheeg imagined her work would begin immediately. Prompting clearing about her future and her dislike for eliz eliza. In her interview at the end of her life she said quote she was determined never to be her slave. Her decision was made. She would risk everything to avoid the clutches. Judge was wellinformed and knew her decision to flee was far more than risky but still with those dog sniffing kidnappers andt bounty hunters the rest of her life. Yes it was consuming was her fear but so was herng anger. Judge could no longer stomach thee enslavement in the change of the ownership to pull the trigger andin had given everything to the washington and for 12 years serving the mistress faithfully and now cut from the material light from her dresses everything she had come to have evaporated but no matter how you would never be considered fully human. And was there property be sold or mortgagor treated so that was a weekend out of the recesses of her mind now to fighter that is her right in her decision was just the beginning the waiting was difficult. But for nearly two weeks she called her nerves and planned her escape. So judge worked in tandem as they made the necessary preparations for the trip back to mount vernon she said while they were packing to go to virginia i was packing to go. I didnt know where but if i went back to virginia i should never get my pretty. Judge kept her plan a secret. With anyone who lived in the executive mansion she knew fearful or jealously were responsible and decided to rely on the blacks on the other side of the walls of the president s home. Not onlyy did onie judge have to pack her leave mom pack her things but decide when she woulds leave. But judge was the first and had to be available at all times but there was only one duty of meal preparation with the kitchen staff sometimes she had some free time during the afternoon meal. As others were served mom assigned to serve sometimes the president entertained extending the festivities into the evening inviting guests to retire to the parlor to enjoy the wine and additional conversation. This is the only moment that judge could use to her advantage. When the moment arrived he gathered her nerves and fled. On saturday may 21, 1796, onie judge slipped out of the executive mansion while the Washington State their supper. She disappeared into the free black video philadelphia. Although judge makes this decision to leave, one thing i want people to understand about the lives of fugitives is to remember the plan to leave is always strategic and in the case of onie judge the same thing and she knew the moment she walked out of h the mansion that her status as the trusted slave would immediately come to an end. No longer the favored slave of her mistress instead of fugitives. On may 23 the household steward to george placed an ad in thedd philadelphia gazette one week after her disappearance there were two newspapers as well as the philadelphia cannot believe everything you see on wikipedia because for the longest time it was attributed to the pennsylvania gazette but it was philadelphia gazette for four weeks they ran advertisements in the attempt to recapture onie judge. In the philadelphia gazette to announce to the world she defied the president from absconded on saturday afternoon here at mount vernon i believe it was the diminutive of her name and i call her by the name she went by at the end of her life but much freckled and bushy black hair a to be slender and delicately made and this offers the award which is the cost of a barrel of flour at that time. And that offers the reward that this would be paid to anyone white or black. Subsequently that language was taken out. For the four. Route, the delware river inch his advertisement kit sent a strong warning to anyone who worked on the docks of philadelphias busy port, stating, quote, but as she may attempt to escape by water, all matters of vessels are cautioned against admitting her into them. Kits assumptions were correct. For judge did escape the city by boat. A combination of preparation, assistance from the black community, steely nerves, pushed the trusted enslaved woman to begin her life anew as a fugitive and its at this point in the book where i sort of move into this transition from ona judge as an enslaved woman in virginia and then new york and philadelphia, to becoming a fugitive. In her life changes instantly, the moment she walks out of that door. It begins on her voyage to New Hampshire. Ill read just a bit. The crashing waves of the Atlantic Ocean hurled saddles and candles from one side of the storage hold to another. The smell of molasses and coffee was thick, nauseating passengers who were unaccustomed to sailing with bold on his frequent trips between philadelphia, new york, and portssmith. Transportation in the 18th 18th century was never easy. Traveling by sea could be dangerous. Old, poorly inspected ships, slipped in and out of cities we torn sails and weathered caulk, hoping to make it to the next port without incident. Ona judge had never been sail on such a ship, single masted sloop that could carry into 75 people, depending on the side of the cargo. These schlissels were key signed to haul freight from one coastal town to the next, but ship captains earned extra money by allowing passengers to ride along. Any seafairing voyage that judge might have taken with the washingtons would have been close to enjoyable. Short river crossings, and relatively luxurious vessels are what judge had come to know, but she had turn her back on all of that. Now on board the nancy, ship was minimal, space was minimal, and travelers lodged themselves wherever there was rom. The fugitive found herself sleeping in tight quarters but this time with strangers, some who were traveling them to visit with family and friends, and others who, like judge, were leaving behind a difficult past for the possibilities of a new future. In portsmith. The unsettled sea likely forced her sum to turn sommer salts. The wind would cal their fleshed and sweaty forehead, offering tear relief from sea sakeness. Sea sickness other, passengers suffered, hanging their body over the side of the sloop, release thing content of their stomachs into the atlantic. Every morning when the sun lifted, lifted itself above the horizon, judge would have looked out across the ocean, thankful to have survived another day away from her owners but still she was terrified. For five days judge contained her fear. She could not appear too nervous, as passengers were already throwing quick and curious glances towards the lightskinned black woman who traveled alone. She knew that they washingtons were looking for her, and that by now her name and a bounty probably appeared in many of the philadelphia newspapers. She wondered how much of a reward was attached to her recapture. A thought that sent her eyes to scan the strangers on boardment surely one of the washington agents made it to the ship before it left dock street. But she wouldnt know this for certain until the nancy reached New Hampshire. The beautiful expensive clogging she wore to serve the washington was packed away, and instead judge would have addressed in inconspicuous clothing. She was a hunted woman and would try to pass not for white but as a free black northern woman. Ona would have to fight to stay free. The washingtons would pursue her for years, up until really three months before the president died. So for years, ona had to try and figure out how to remain never caught. See if we have i want to show a few of the kind of archival tidbits i was able to pull while i was working on this project for nine years. The researching and writing took almost a decade, and during my process of researching, i kind of span this moment where digitization was just starting, so newspapers thank goodness are judge advertized now and sped things up as we went along but this is one of the newspapers i looked through early on in my project and this is another one of those jump for joy moments when grew fine what youre looking for in the archives and this is a an announcement, marriage announcement in this town, mr. John stage to miss oney judge, spelled driftly. What find so incredible about this a couple of things. One, this is january of 17 7. So she hasnt been gone but, what, seven months, eight months or so and in that time she is able to find a husband, and not only did she find a husband, but she didnt go by an alias. When she reported got married and had to record to the paper about this marriage. Now, this is also another note for grad students and schools are who happen about digitization, just to see this image is important, right . We see this is a sort of act of her life, her resistance maybe, but if you pull out the whole page of the newspaper of course i dont have that slide here but the front page of the newspaper was George Washingtons announcement to the fair people of New Hampshire, thanking them for being good citizens as he prepared to depart, and so what is hilarious to me we have George Washington making this great statement to the fair people of New Hampshire, and next to its the article about the slaving running away. Gives you a sense nor kind of resistance we see from ona judge, she meant to be that much of a certain of resisting person, we dont know. Own that judge would make here way to freedom or relative freedom. She would live out her days in and around greenwood, New Hampshire, and she evaded washingtons slave catching acquaintances for the entirety of her life. She managed to build a family for herself. She married, she had children, she work as a domestic to the end of her days. And although she endured the trials of poverty and fugitive status until her death, judge moved forward. Her life was a difficult one but freedom was worth it. Ill show you my last slide of the evening. Is a little bit of one of the first interviews that ona judge grants. Im not going to tell you everything about New Hampshire because you have to buy the book and read the book. I dont want to give everything away but remember the book is called never caught so we know theres going to be some tension and drama while she is in New Hampshire. This article that came from the granite freeman, an abolitionist newspaper, appeared in may of 1845. And it was at this point ona judge was in her early to mid70s. And she grant an interview. And i wouldnt necessarily call ona judge an abolitionist. Im not sure she saw herself as such. She simply was asked to tell her story, and you know, one thing ive noticed is a spent time with my own mother and ive spend time with my grandparents, the older you get, the more likely you for say what is exactly on your mind. Without much filter. I think we have bit of that here with ona judges interviews. She explains why she ran away, how she ran away, and why it was important, but also that she didnt regret it. Even though her life was terribly difficult, she never regret it. She would spend nearly 50 years as a fugitive. And the children that she had were also fugitives because slavery followed the Apron Strings of the mother. So, the stakes were even higher once ona went to New Hampshire and attempted to be to remain never caught. For 50 years she was a fugitive in hiding, but im certain that she never wanted to be forgotten. With the publication of this book, everyone will now know her name. Thank you. [applause] i think were going to do some q a and we have two microphone on either side of the room. Thank you for a its inning talk. Did you get any oral histories . Good question about descendents and oral histories. So, how die say this without giving away part of the story achievement send dents directly related to ona judge dont exist, but there are descendents connected to her half siblings, and theres been some corporations between the library and some correspondence between the lie area and some folks who claim do be descendents. I actually purposely chose not to go to bark up that tree, although maybe thats a second project. I dont know. What we do have is a record of some of her half siblings, and what happens to them once ona leaves, and one of her sir lings, sister, who is name was philadelphia, is that i know, interesting. So philadelphias actually forced to take onas place and she goes to work for eliza custis law and is you have to buy the book. Dont want to tell you everything. So theres a chapter, an epilogue at the end that explains i think sort of poignantly how we have two examples of women in the early 19th century who were trying to find freedom. We have ona doing it as fugitive, and as youll see in the book we have her sister attempting to do it in other ways. So it gets us back to this issue of women attempting to fight for their freedom, but there is a story there, philadelphia marries a man named glay and becomes part of a relatively wellknown family in washington. And ill just go ahead and tell you that philadelphia does find her freedom. Her freedom. Can you elaborate on the Free Black Community in philadelphia that the ways they might have been planning for to assist her. A great question about the philadelphia the community of free blacks in philadelphia and how they came to her aid. I think one of the important things about this story, this history, is that it highlights the importance of networks, and in particular of communities, free people of color. Philadelphia in the 1790s was the epicenter of free black life. It outpaced new york, gradual the gradual end of slavery began in 1780 in pennsylvania with the gradual abolitional that stated you could only be held as slave up to 28 years, and we saw elongation of that in some instances bought really where ona judge lived was very close to many free blacks and so we have thousands of free blacks withing in and around living in and around philadelphia. One thing that is important to know is that ona judge never names names, and she cant, right . She cant do that for fear of reprisals, that those who helped her, they broke the federal law. They could be imprisoned or fined, and so she just simply referred to them as free people of color, or the colored people of philadelphia. A couple of the stories, including myself a couple of historians, including myself, believe that richard allen, known for creation of mother bethel amn philadelphia was likely involved in some way or another in her escape. He was known for assisting fugitives, and interestingly enough in the account books, held at the philadelphia executive mansion, a week before ona runs off, its noted that she was given money to buy new shoes. Smart. Fright good to runaway, you need new shoes. One thing to remember is that richard allen, he was a chimney sweep. Served he household of the president. Would clean out the chimneys there. Perhaps they interacted. Were not certain. He also had a shoe shop in his home. He was a sort of jack of all trades, and so some of us, including rich newman, who wrote the biography on richard allen, believed there was some kind of connection between her and richard allen, but we also see outside of philadelphia, outside of seeing this growing free black population who clearly helped her the only person she names is john bolds, shipmaster, and i was able to because she named his name she made it very clear in her interview she as only naming his name because she knew he was deceased so he wouldnt get the trouble. But it was very clear that following the shift reports that pulled into the port of philadelphia, his ship was in philadelphia at exactly the time that ona judge ran away and made it back to forthsmouth the beginning of judge, i figured out the shipped was called the nancy by looking at ship advertise. So clearly at the Free Black Community was involved with her and with her fugitive her becoming a fugitive. The same holds true in New Hampshire, and she is very clear she gets help and assistance from the free black population in New Hampshire. Now, the population was tiny, so when she arrived in portsmouth there are more black people in mt. Vernon than portsmouth. Still may be. Its lovely city. Ive spent a lot of time there absolutely gore gorgeous, but i thought, why portsmouth . She couldnt go to new york, known entity, a face was recognizable perhaps the same truce for boston. She said she didnt know in her interviews where she bass going, its like the people who helped her, didnt help her for fear of problems that perhaps she would tell the plan, perhaps she would be found out. So he actually doesnt know where she is going until she disembarks. And once she gets to New Hampshire, she finds a Free Black Community there who harbors her, who gives her housing and food and helps her find work, and really keeps her safer every time one of washingtons agents or family members came after her, they always sheltered her, harbored her, hid her, and so i think the other part of what this book does is show the importance of a Free Black Community in the end of the 18th and early 19th 19th century. Few years ago i read a wonderful Childrens Book to my daughter about oney judge. Were you part of the project . No. I know diane turner has written a Childrens Book. I wasnt part of that but i know her work, and im glad those i think theyre two Children Books about ona judge, and now theres some interest about a kind of young adult version so im working on that. Stay tuned. In the slide you have up there right now, it says oops. You did happen says something to effect she didnt remember what year it was . Im surprised at that you. Think it would be burned in her memory. Yeah. I think it would be burned in ones memory but here ill let you sneak in and ill just talk louder. I think we also have to think about the importance of history and memory and what especially an interview at the end of ones life, although that was she gave a pretty good details, she does say, look, i cant remember the year, and i dont even think thats too difficult thank you. I dont think thats too difficult to sort of wrap our minds around because i know personally i cant remember what happened last week, let alone what year things happened in. I think she wanted to provide an interview that was as credible as possible but she didnt lie. Some way is kind of appreciate she doesnt. She says, i cant remember. I dont know, and i think about that, 50 years as a fugitive, at a time when as a fugitive and, remember, she could not read or write. She doesnt become literate until the end of her life. So i think its possible, very possible, that the doesnt remember, and so i appreciate the honesty. Did the pursuit of ona judge continue after the washington passed away . So, she says no. She has never stated that anyone else from marthas side of the family came after her. When we think we know that Martha Washington in her will, the estate was transferred to her grandchildren so technically ona judge would have belonged to one of them. I looked through the inventory of the enslaved for all those grandchildren. She is not noted anywhere on those lists, and in some ways, i kind of think they just sort of gave up, but its a sort of fascinating story because her grandchildren really sort of moved in separate ways about slavery. We know George Washington park custis becomes involved in the american colonialization sew, so it elizas slaves are emancipated. So its almost like a different story that we move into in the 19th century. Its sort of captures a transition between the end of the 18th and the early 19th 19th century. I i found no record of it and ona did not mention the possibility of being an attempted capture by any of the grandchildren. So, i think thats an important point, but she was pursued for at least three years. Right . We know that from the moment that she runs away, until the death of George Washington, she is pursued. And so one of the things i think we have to remember is even though there wasnt a sort of physical attempt to capture her, she knew she was still their property, and as long as slavery existed in the United States, she was never not she was always at risk. So i do think its important to note that the grandchildren did not teen go after her. Maybe a document somewhere will tell me a different story, and if that happens, im excited, not worried. But she clearly always knew that she was a fugitive and that was a fear that rang true to her and her children. Erica, really good work you have done here. Have question for you. So, as ona give any insight into jeb George Washingtons planning of the city, dealing with the layout based on the society and the arrest . Any information that would i wish she had. Wish. But she didnt. We have really just two interviews from her, and the information that she gives about washington George Washington and Martha Washington really revolved around religion because it was clear that she became very ona became very religious during her life as a fugitive. Went to church. There she learned she became literal. Were not certain if she could write or not but at least could read. She talked more about religion she talked about the desire to not go to the granddaughter. She talked about the fact she never regretted this decision, but she didnt give us the kind of intricacies of what was going on, and i find that kind of fascinating because think about it. She lived with them for so long. She knew everything right . She was. There are she witnessed the difficult moments, but she never went there. She didnt give up that kind of personal information. She takes a few jabs at the washingtons, but give her a break. She was a slave. She was a fugitive. She has a right to put in some jabs. She questioned whether or not George Washington was really religious. She said i never really saw him pray. He went to church but didnt pray. So i think thats a different kind of understanding about religion from her viewpoint. But she doesnt give us those intricacies but i talk about banninger as a way to give context what their early era of the out looked like, and hes part of that. Looked like and he is part of that. I find it interesting that you started your research on about the announcement, that you really werent looking for at the time, and then you hit the jackpot by finding the interview, and i was wondering, was that part of your long process when you did that or what led you to find the report of the interview . Yeah. That is a jackpot. I could as an historian i think i can say that i dont know if id call it jackpot. I feel like this kind of recovery work is so important, and to have this story out for a large audience is the same. I didnt necessarily know dishll be honest here, doing it on cspan, but ill be honest here. I did not know if would actually be able to find enough to write a book about ona. There were Childrens Books. There was maybe there was a chapter here or there in a couple of important biographies on washington but no work about her. I thought, why there is nothing on her . Thats kind of crazy. And then i realized how long it took to do this research and i knew why there was nothing, no kind of man know graph dedicated to manograph because dedicated to her because the materials were slim. I couldnt have done this ahead not written a fragile freedom which caught me everything about early philadelphia and new york and sort of allowed know ground this book in those communities of free people, in the kind of atmosphere of the streets and also what slavery looked like in philadelphia and in new york and then, of course, portsmouth, so, at first i didnt know if i would be able to do write a whole book, and then as time kept moving, i realized, i can, and she deserves it. What can you tell us about anyones husband and i think i noticed in the wed eight nounsment that the last name texas her last name was spelled with a g at the beginning rather than a j. I wondered whether that was an attempt to maintain some anonymity and secrecy. The question was about her husband, jack, who went by john staines. Sometimes. He was a free black man. He was a sailor, a seaman, and that was a very sort of typical Employment Opportunity for black men, because opportunities were few and far between, black men typically had to look to the seas to earn a living, and it was sometimes it was spore rattic money but you would get all your money at once and that was the jackpot moment and brought home your earnings. At very dangerous work. The minute you left ports mouth or philadelphia or what have you and sailed to other locations you freedom was always in jeopardy. So to think ona knew she was marrying a sailor and knew he would be away for long periods of time. So that is kind of protection that many looked for, ate least through marriage in terms of having a male a husband or spouse who could help, especially a free person, wasnt always at play for ona. She spent a lot of time alone, at first when i was working on the book, there were some notes he kind of disappeared from her family, like, he just kind of fell off the face of the earth and so it took me a long time trying to track down what happened, and so i didnt bring an image of this but i have moment when i found a death notice for him in the New Hampshire gazette, and it said, jack staines, man of color died this day. First i wondered did he die at sea . Did he leave ona judge . Marital tension made him run off . And we know she is a lone after 1804. Why is that . That little death announcement the fact they offered one for him as a black man was also significant. So, i was able to find that piece that together about him. I dont know anything about his beginnings. I just knew that he was free black man, he married own narks they had children and that their marriage was relatively short before he died, and once again, kind of leaving ona to fend for herself in many ways. I wish this could be a story writ i would trump fant its triumphant na that she is never caught, budget life was really very difficult it and was the same way for ona as it was for many of the free and enslaved and fugitives who were living in New Hampshire. Were passing the mic down. Thank you for all this wonderful information. My question is, as a fugitive, was there any physical description of her . Yes. So, there were actually, aside from the advertisement, we gate description of her as young woman. She was be 22 when he runs off, and it kind of confirms what we think what i know about her background and described her as lighter complected with bushy hair. Later on there were several accounts by local folks in ports mouth who wrote their kind of recollections of life, and she made it she was eventually she becomes known as, oh, yeah, the slave who ranway from washington. So people would come to the tot canal where she lived, and the cottage where she lived and he was pretty poverty strucken and sometimes theyd give hear dollar and should would tell her stories. I seen he vibe as very light complected, almost white to copper colored. So there are descriptions about her. None about her children but about her so we do have an idea of course of no image, but once again, as a fugitive, you wouldnt want people no necessarily know what you look like or keep talking about it. Could we get one more . One in the back. Thank you. We just this past week, fortunate enough to go to the black history museum, and while we spent the afternoon, only made through a few floors. You need sneakers. If we go back will there be any mention of ona judge . So, i went and gave a talk at the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture last week when we book came out. Was there was but no there isnt. Except for that i went and gave a talk, and so the exhibit can change and maybe that will happen, but they definite one thing thats great is that theyre carrying the book in the book store, so it night not be in the exhibit but you can at least buy the book in the book store. I think that has to do with a lack of the material culture connected to ona because as i said before, she was a fugitive, left very little behind in terms of a trace, whereas if you go that magnificent human, theres Harriet Tubmans shawl, silk shawl. Nat turners bible. So we have these remnant from other famous enslaved people but nothing in the way of material culture that can be produced. I will say theres an exhibit here made it happen. Without the material culture piece, theres definitely an engagement with ona judge. She is represented. So hopefully that will make it that grand building in d. C. Eric car thank you so much. Lets get a round of applause. [applause] well require her to stay and sign everybodys book. Youll buy multiple copies. I do appreciate at what you said about the exhibit here. When we had the slavery conference, it had just been open a week and i was very curious to see how the scholars would respond to it, and you want to say anything else . I know we have some of the people involved in the exhibit. The exhibit i was one of this folks who showed up in october at the conference. Its a stunning exhibit, first visually, and a lot packed in, and i think its sort of signals a moment for mt. Vernon that is present. Slavery is a difficult topic, and to throw yourself into it and connect the first president with the contradictions, the hypocrisy and looking at him as man and his idea changing about slavery over time. Im super appreciative that definitely makes it into the exhibit. So, ive actually only heard sort of positive comments about the exhibit and if you havent seen it, you definitely should, and ona is there. Ona is there. Thank you so much. Give another big round of plus. [applause] if you need a chair. Thank you, cspan. Good night, everybody. You can buy books outside the door there. All right. [inaudible conversations] were pleased to welcome everybody to our douglas and Sarah Allison auditorium this afternoon. Those on he heritage. Org web site as welles in the future on cspan booktv. For those inhouse we ask that courtesy to see that our mobile devices have been silenced or turned off. And of course those watches online are welcome to send questions or comments at any time, simply emails seger heritage. Org. Hosting our program and welcoming our special guest is genevieve wood. Serves as the Senior Communications adviser and senior contributor the daily signal, heritages multimedia