This panel is near and get them out and i think of the woman on the stage and probably a lot of in the audience, representation. The media landscape is in constant flux. Theres new platforms, more competition and, of course, more opportunity for women to tell their stories and create content and to rise up in the ranks of the companies, some which we have here, women at high levels. And yet there is this persistent documented gender gap that exists in the number of women who report and produce the news and the number of women who direct films and have speaking parts in tv and film. And so we are here today with women who are breaking new ground in this area. Joining is susan goldberg, the executive editor of National Geographic magazine, editorinchief of National Geographic magazine and edit 20 record of National Geographic partners. We have Jeanine Liburd who is the social impact and key medications officer at pet networks. We have shelley lapis who was combines Digital Content and life events to drive gender equality in the workplace and last but certainly not least we have Shawna Thomas who is working for a Company Called quibi. Pronounce correctly. If you dont know it now you will soon. Its a short form video platform and shawna is the content executive editor. So please join me in giving this panel a round of applause. [applause] so id love to quickly hear from each of you before we dive in a little more of deeply. I thought this would be a good place to start. I read about the global globes nominations last night and again we sort of made a couple steps for as it did in 201819 with women representation in film, but the golden globe nominations, you have no females, directors being nominated. Film centered on men, sort of getting a lot of the attention. Id love for you to start with you, jeanine. What is the biggest single contributor right now to the gender gap in media and what is the single biggest thing we need to do to fix it. Was lets start off with a super easy question. Sorry. [laughing] and im so glad you through a softball. [laughing] the funny thing is as you were just going through that, the first person who came to my mind, shes getting an honor later today is deborah who has granted in this business for so long and done so many Amazing Things and has her golden globe nominee for harrogate. When i think of women like her who have been in this business for so long, i think part of that one solution is that the studios have to really make a concerted effort to have a diverse number of stories that are led by women of color, women in general and really open up the aperture for what youre looking for. And it has to be the opportunity to do what is okay, we know what that gets us. So there it has to be an appetite. At the day as we all know its a Smart Business decision. When you look at, im a big census 120 person, for a focus on it. When we get those numbers from the 2020 census and we really understand how the multicultural world is changing, the media landscape cannot television will not survive if it does not quickly adapt to understanding how you survey multiple audience. Movies are the same thing. I imagine when same thing in terms of shortterm content. Truly its understand what the audience will look like, the content that they will purchase. Thats also a critical piece of the next year and then realizing youre going to get the best content once you embrace amazing creators and directors. Quickly. I think it is a lot to do with who is taking the pictures in the first place. Who was behind the camera. At National Geographic we just did a count of the. And the last two out of 130 assignments for digital and print platforms we had 70 men and about 60 women. Its not 100 there but this just is enormous progress in this is a huge focus for our company. We are, our diversity numbers are not where they should be but were getting the gender numbers closer to where they need to be. Picking upon something which is at. How important is that to changing the equation . Actually tracking and Holding People to it. I feel like thats been a theme of mic tenure as well, you just cant hope it happens. You have to be super prescriptive, right . Yeah. I think that you cant. That is the most important thing. We can talk about unconscious bias for so long. Im just so sick of talk about unconscious bias to i mean, if use the word unconscious, you are conscious. I mean, not complicated. And so i think having measurement, its just really important because we cant hide behind the excuses and we cant hide behind pledges and petitions. It holds us accountable for change. You cant keep pointing the finger at everyone elses responsibility. Its your responsibility its mine, its yours, its ours. We individually if we each take responsibility and accountability for change, thats how change happens. On your website you said its not just good for that sake, its good for the bottom line. We know the bottom line, we can add 4 trillion to the gdp by 2025. 20 trillion to the global g dp by 2025 so its a business imperative. And youre also getting different stories with ever more women behind that camera. The same thing i was going to say was especially from a news perspective youre going to have a team that thinks about stories differently. Youre going to have a team that looks for different places to find stories. That means youre going to have a more representative newscast or short form news conferenceevery single day. And that will make your product more vibrant and people will want to consume it. Thats number one andnumber two is that it is conscious. We cant pretend like we are in some type of postracial society or post gender society that automatically this is going to happen for everyone. We have to pick and choose and make decisions like we will think about actual women were people of color for this position. We will make sure we are interviewing everybody. It doesnt mean the amount is not to get the job that we have to consciously think about this class i want to hear about your experience in journalism and id love to go to susan. What do you think the new system is getting wrong right now . It comes to from nbc, big legacy. Obviously a news organizations, then on to vice and now at a new start. So id love to hear some specifics but from your experience what are we doing wrong . Ive said a version of this before but i think especially in the News Business and in print and television news, part of the issue is the pipeline to get into the business is limited by how much money you already have so the joke i always make is that i worked at nbc news for 10 years and it took about seven and probably a white house producer and i brought my mom to the White House Christmas party and write at the Christmas Party my mom gets to meet barack obama and she stops asking me when am i going tolaw school. Im 30 something and its clear im going to work in tv, im going to work in news, im going to work in media but she grew up southern, poor and black and it didnt seem Like Television was an actual thing someone could get to so i think even with, like i grew up solidly middleclass but this is not a poverty story on my part but i think even in certain communities, these jobs dont seem like real jobs and so that stops the process and you add to it that at the beginning of any career, people are making 15, 20, 25,000 a year to work in a small town, yuma arizona to the in market 182 to move upmarket 72 to move up the market 50 and the barrier to entry in these jobs means that i think a lot of people get cold at the very beginning so you arent already starting with less soaking Economic Diversity and less diversity in general and that point whoever is able to rise and stay in the gay, its imperative on us who have stay in it to keep pulling people out as much as we can but i think a big part of theproblem is that entrylevel is really hard to commit to. Susan, National Geographic in november published its First Magazine entirely written and photographed by women and one, id love to hear howthat came about but two, with that have come about a man and in your position . No. [applause] so at National Geographic obviously an old brand, weve been around for 134 years. Im the first woman editor of the magazine and first editorial director whose female as well. It only took hundred 25 years for that to happen thats good. But this really came about because we are on the cusp of the hundredth anniversary of women getting the right to vote in the United States and also because we are having an incredible moment in the United States and around the world with people demanding their rights and getting a lot of rights so we thought it was a great time not just to do this special issue of the magazine looking at the state of women around the world but also photographic books that use a National Geographic archive and looks at the depiction of women, over 130 years and how that depiction has changed and its amazing, you see this narrative arc of change of how women starting out in the most traditional roles as beautiful objects up to the warriors that many women are today in armies and militaries and its a powerful representation of change. What was the most surprising thing you saw when you have a product that was produced by women . Seen through their eyes and the female gays. I think there is a female gays, i dont think its news that men and women see the world differently and thats why whos taking the pictures really matters. We did men editing stories and working behind the scenes but it was all female. Writers, photographers and illustrators and i guess i would have tosay it felt like a more inclusive process. And i sensed this pride that i didnt really expect on the part of the participants as being part of this effort, this first time effort and it made me really happy. Youve been similarly deliberate about making sure women have these premier roles and id love to hear from you but when did it matter that you were there pushing and what did you have to push past to get there . I was going to say, every now and then you have these moments and as you were talking i was going back into my childhood just remember getting the National Geographic. I was like wait, whats the question . So i think a couple of things. Bp in january will be 40 which is amazing and as weve been doing this work looking at what does 40 years mean and ive been there for about a little over 10 of those 40 and at viacom for 20. And thinking about what does that mean and whats been the impact and as weve looked back at all of the people in front of and behind the scenes, pretty much anybody you can think of as either worked atbet, then hired by the bet, then behindthescenes , his very first acting gig wasa Short Documentary that she did for bet which is about 10 years ago. Maybe 11 years ago. For me, those are those moments when you understand a lot of it is around access and platforms and i worked in , its surreal to be here in dc. I worked in the white house the beginning of clinton to, and of clinton one and one of the things i learned being on the policy side was how important it was to get media focus on whatever the issue of the day was. Sometimes more important getting media focused and whatever the policy was and thats what pushed me to this end of the business and i think as i have moved on and then in this career ive always been amazed sometimes still 2020 that im still the only woman of color in the room you know who watches the most television . Black women. You knowspends the most time online . Black women. So were driving all these businesses for me, thats the thing that always keeps me pushing is understanding the numbers and understanding the power and letting people know what power is and that they can , particularly in this world you say something, women are listening. They have to be responsive. We have broken open the door. And really hoping people realize whattheir power is. What advice would you give for votes on his room on the live stream. Thats moments when you feel like youre not being listened to and you have the numbers and the argument on your side. What do you do . A couple things, the ally word is one that we must stay focused on and some of my closest allies through my career and why im still at viacom has been really smart white men who get it. Who took time to have a conversation. Took time to get to know me. I think so much of it is relationships so sometimes when youre like i am just up against a brick wall its probably because youre yelling. And you have to like sitdown, have a minute, take a breath and then go have a real conversation with someone and even in that moment of them getting to know you will help maybe not in that moment on the problem but a little later on and just to pick up on a quick thing you said, its also about reaching back to sometimes youre like you know what, i cant help you but what i can do, i have a lot of value with young people who are trying to figure this out area a young woman asked me the other day mike back and forth and she has this not for profit she started in brooklyn and he gives this survey of the young women that she works with and asks them do you know someone who has a job and 85 percent said number so shes having this luncheon and shes like i need a dermatologist, i need a social justice and i just sat there with the list and i just emailed. She says sure. And that is such a big thing so sometimes i just say its like frustrating looking forward sometimes to look back. To bring you in on the question when you may be the only woman in the room or the only person of color or just in a company , what are the best experiences you had to sort of breakthrough, make your impacts, get people to listen to you . My nickname is troublemaker so if that doesnt say at all, ive broken every rule that made no sense and rewrote new ones without permission. It just was what i needed to do and i always wanted to make me, i was always a white girl, the minority that they needed to be the exception, not the exception but the new norm. I just had to rewrite the rules and i think oftentimes , we talk a lot about that as that voice in our head where if a guy can do six things hes like yes, i got this. If a woman cant do 10 out of the 10 were not qualified area that we optout a couple of things. One, you just have to shut that voice up in your head area thats what you have to tell yourself, shut voice up and on your strength. On your power, stand in your admission and dont try to be like someone else. Our difference is our greatest. You have to believe in yourself and if you believe in yourself others will and i think thats first and foremost guys in general, they all have that imposter syndrome they dont admit it. Thats the thing. They just hold it in and move forward and when you think about the imposter syndrome, if we rewrote the rules, thinkabout the masculine leadership , linear, aggressive, assertive. The feminine nurturing collaborative, who wouldnt want to opt into that . Im looking for a leader that is collaborative,empathetic , passionate. Youre not loud and aggressive, youre passionate and passion that can delivera great bottom line, count me in. Who wouldnt want to be counted in on that Job Description area we all opt into that area and its just we need to change the lexicon but most importantly it starts with confidence and im the cofounder of a movement called ashphalt see her, if you can see her you can be her and we talked a lot about media, mediadefines culture, culture defines change , change defined action and if youcant see not only representation but reflection , we have to start thinking about reflection area if you can see yourself in these roles you have that inspiration and yet 90 percent of parents dont believe theres role models for their girls and i have to say for our boys, with voice perceive girls to be is what when perception becomes reality. 40 percent of women dont identify with the people they say in media and entertainment and 55 percent of people believe that women are portrayed negatively area so this is a cultural change when we put women behind the camera , in front of the camera. We will think about how people are reflected in how important this ability of everyone is in everything we see and ill like to watch tv to. I want to say one thing about this. I think just to add to what you said that what shelley does so amazingly well is make sure that women are supported and know each other. I think part of the reason why were all here today and what you do with the female quotient and see her and all your work which is so amazing is make sure we know each other so we know when were in those positions of i cant figure it out, ive got you. And thats really necessary. To me theres been such a people and to pick up on something that i mentioned in the intro, this took a lot of opportunity. The fact that there are new digital startups, startups that obviously are extraordinarily well back, couple of billionaires. You have this amazing opportunity both to sort of fix some of the stuff for everyone on the state as a role in fixing this but youre at the forefront of a potential new juggernaut. How are you internalizing that need . Weve had these conversations you and i offline about how do we have something thats morerepresentative than what we see right now . I took the job about six weeks ago and in a week into it i flew to la so theres a small office in new york, a Bigger Office in la and the executive team, Jeffrey Katzenberg and the women he split around him on the Development Side with jeffrey is incredibly diverse and incredibly female centric and what i took from that immediately was two people at the top saying if im going to create my own company we are going to do it with the people who we want to create content for so its pretty young at the executive level and its diverse city at the executive level and i was really, that made me really happy when i walked into the biggest meeting that i was in when i was in la because something similar happened when i walked into the original meeting at Vice News Tonight that i walked into this room, they were having some meeting at a Bowling Alley in brooklyn and i was like its going to be a bunch of hipsters and im from dc but i walked in and it was literally gay,straight, black, white, asian , hispanic, trans in that room and this is before we started making the show itself and well, this is the group my boss has gotten together and i think were going to make something pretty interesting but i think when youre starting something new, and it helps to have money to hire these people irealized , it is imperative to start and create something that you really want to have in front of you which is a little harder to do in the Legacy Companies where people are moving up and the people theyve been around for a long time and is not a knock on Legacy Companies, my 10 years at nbc news serve me well but what can you imagine , then go do that. Thats the important thing for me i walked in and they said we need to hire threemore people than you. Not many me , that sounded terrible. But for me, okay. Let me see the resume if you have, let me go and talk to other people but let me make sure i am looking at a diversity of candidates and im not rushing through it. I think my boss would like me to hire a little bit faster but im like i want to see one more person i heard about this person or i want to talk to this group and see who they know. If my responsibility to look at everybody possible and make the team that i would love in an ideal world a content with and i think its everyone elses responsibility to make the team that they think reflects their world. We can learn so much from the mistakes of the past on this particular subject. I can remember a time when i was running large newspapers the plain dealer in cleveland and San Jose Mercury news so this is a two earlier to thousands. And we were working really hard on growing female editors, editors running the big papers and then what happens . Then the financial upheaval that media came down really hard and all of a sudden, everybody took their eye off of that ball and it was like oh yeah, we might need more female editors but right now we have to worry about Something Else. We need a more diverse staff right now we have to worry about Something Else and the numbers started falling and were still recovering from the period from the progress made. I even think in large media organizations, we are aware we were at our 15 years ago. So i think the lesson to be learned is no matter what upheaval, no matter what chaos is going on, that seems to me this will continue forever area in our business. You cant take your eye off of that ball because it is so important. Its important to the business, its important for the accuracy and your content so we can never get put in that oh, this diverse anything ever again and i think thats a huge reminder. I was going to ask that, thank you and as a couple of weeks ago, i had the pleasure of participating, going to the tower of terror grand opening which like i still am reeling and quoting from it but one of the things i think thats often missing from this conversation is ownership and how do we do your point, theres these major brands but the legacy brands are looking for those new voices and the importance that i was speaking on a Conference Last Week about, the importance of owning your own ip, understanding the access that you create and i think that part of what we need to do today is supporting him creators, having them understand how to own their content so that their understanding those Revenue Streams and it might not be about just going to work somewhere that might be amazing but how do i own my own contest, start my own business is , and empower yourself and then you can bring other people and help them create. Exactly. I just wanted to really have a couple minutes left here. You did mention early on men as allies. I had this same experience frankly, like im not in this position but there are men who, thats just reality. Shawna, shelley, id love to hear from you. This is a room full of mostly women. But what, what actions can they take and what can women do in response to that . So that we can mutually benefit from one another . I hate the phrase men as allies. Im just being honest area is not a female issue, its a leadership issue. The second we start saying male allies we are just empowering men more to say rescue us, we need help. We didnt create this problem. And you know, to me its an opportunity. And i think we need to look at it that way. We need allies. We need leadership allies. We need people in positions of responsibility, accountability and power if you will. To help bring us all up. So i just think its back to, weve got to rewrite the words and call it allies. And i dont care if youre male or female, if youre in a roll can do the pulling and lifting up, then we all shine. I think you know, we really need to start understanding and a lot of trans shepherd did a survey that said 50 percent of men today dont want to work with women because theyre afraid to do or say the wrong thing thats a problem. We must reverse that. Were hysterical and were bossy. Like, we need to get past this area and understand that if we are truly going to move forward, we are all in this together. Gender equality is all of our opportunities. And i think that thats is still the language we need to be using. We need to be proactive, positive and we need to take steps forward if we make the wrong step, dont worry about it, makeanother one. Just keep pushing forward, most importantly together. Menand women in the workplace. And i think it starts with also creating a culture where people feelthey can speak up. So theres, this happens when i was vice, we at that particular show and this culture of everybody came to the pitch meetingsfrom pa to senior producer to executive producer, everyone can pitch. My researcher ended up on a two week trip to chorion because he convinced the federal government to let us do it so it was creating a culture where everyone could speak up and some of the women had started to speak up too. My mailbox about a specific person who was talking over the other women in meetings and it was a constant thing that people had started to notice and what my mailbox said was take all the men on our team and put them in a room and it was like the talking over women has to stop now. You have to stop doing this. So that was two things, creating culture where women felt they could speak up even if they didnt feel like they can tell someone directly that thing that made them feel badly but also took one of the leadership position people to say hey, everybody, be aware that you are doing this because that diminishes our ability to get ideas from other people and create the best possible product. We had an interruption doll, with the bill. Its not done yet, lets just go back to kindergarten. Patterson had it right. But i have one, i have actually a talkingstick. This is great, i i want to hear that one ask that you have in life and in the workplace to accomplish that. Kelly, i think we got yours with taking the building off, i love that. Janine and then susan. I want to push back on one thing. Because i respectfully take your point on not wanting the men as allies but we have to be prescriptive and i think it also speaks to spaces that we live in as women of color that you have, i know ive had to be very specific about it and men have not walked in the room with the same amount of power you have thats the same thing for women of color who when you find your voice and a collective, sometimes you really need to be told or to get that encouragement to make sure that you are communicating and you areseen and heard , particularly, so with respect to that space. My hack is resiliency. Ive been doing this for four years. We have seen so much progress and i feel so great about where we are now, despite what holds up, im not sure i believe that whole i think we have made so much progress and is important just to keep that perspective in mind, that things are so much better and theres always to go and theyre going to get betterstill but theres so much better and we need to keep on keeping on and showing up every tuesday and doing it. Thank you so much shawna, shelley, janine, susan. It was great to have you here. One take away is dont say men are allies. Point taken. But in all seriousness, being very conscious about what were trying to do here and frankly be prescriptive and think about how we really do it and hold people to it. Pull people back, pull people up with you. And of course you know, be resilient and keep fighting the fight area is an important one. A lot more needs to be done, thank you. [applause] weeknights were featuring book tv programs on cspan2. 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