Center for critical race and digital studies and coauthor of race appeal how candidates invoke the race in political campaigns, the winner of the 2012 a psa ralphs monkey award and also with us hed David Ellingtons founder and executive chairman of the Silicon Valley block chain society, a global member driven ecosystem block chaining cryptocurrency related project across industries and for social impact. Members are active investors primarily in technology, collectively representing more than 1. 5 trillion in investment capital, and the motto is funded revolution. I love that. We are so pretty new that is very compelling story, very important story kind of lesser known in tech, but looking at people have been working towards a social justice inside the Tech Industry and the book is called black software the internet Racial Justice, from the afronet to black lives matter of course by charlton d. Mcllwain and published by our friends at Oxford University press. Gentlemen, pleasure to have you both with us. Welcome. [applause]. Think you are the introduction and thank you for all that have come out and maybe a few others will trickle in along the way. So, this is a great place to be. Im wrapping up whats been about a month and a half long to her promoting this book and i can become no better place to end up, this part of the two were in this historic moment. I was just talking to these general and before we started when i got up to the west coast and was telling everyone when i was headed next and i said city lights and everyone forgot about the book. They just says, my gosh i grew up there and spent all this time there, yet to do this. Theres a bar across the corner so its a great thing to be here to talk about this book and to talk with and thank you david for joining me tonight. We will give you some back story about the book and get into some conversation. I dont know where it will lead. I have a starting point but ive a feeling we may jump off course and throw out the q a to the audience at some point. I thought i would start by telling you how black software came to be or at least where the journey started for me and that was simply to explain or try to explain black lives matter. Here was this movement, movement that was powered by digital technology, by folks who harnessed these new Digital Tools to do something that people had not managed to do central in the late 1960s and that was to put the issue of Racial Justice and really the issue of the way that black folks suffer at the hands of the us criminal Justice System back onto the us public agenda. Not since the early 1970s had that happen, but 2014, 15, 16 you sought everyone across the country even beyond the country knew who black lives the matter was, new what they stood for, new with the message was and even some folks who were not predisposed to agree with their position founder themselves agreeing saying yes, black folks are treated differently in this country and particularly in the terms of control justice so i wanted to understand where did this Movement Come from. Had the good sense to know things like this dont just materialize out of thin air so where did it come from, where was the genealogy, where did these folks trace their lineage most in terms of the social and rachel presold justice work but also technology in the facility and knowledge of relatively new technology. Thats where i began and i thought i knew the story i was going to write so this is for anyone thats written a book, i dont know if there are any, but you know the anxiety various when you think you know what you are writing about and find out you have no idea what youre writing about and that happened over and over the course of about three years of writing this book because it didnt really start off as black lives matter and of the mori started going back in time finding folks like david here and we will talk about this much more, the story just began to change, discovery after discovery of different people, different times and in different stories then compelled me too say there is something bigger, theres something broader, but let me start where i first began which was the 90s when the web comes online where everything happens, natural place to start, but those of you everyone except for maybe a couple you all remember the 90s. If you are thinking about black folks and technology in the 1990s, what are two words you undoubtedly remember or talked about . Anyone remember . You are too young in the 90s. That was the way in just which we began to think about black folks and technology from that point on and as much as larry irving and other policymakers had good reasons for pointing out the gap between access to technology that there was a tremendous erasure that was affected and so in some of these talks were ipad projections and usually put up on the screen a number, 5. 6 million. 5. 6 million where the number of people in 1995, number of africanamericans who had computers at home and who were online in 1995, but thats a story about 5. 7 million, 5. 6 million we know here nothing about because we presumed the story was black folks dont have access, therefore they have contributed nothing to this new medium in this platform and so my story began trying to understand who were the 5. 6 million, what were their stories, would they do, where they come from, where did their journey start and thats where i first met David Ellington, so i went to start the story there with reading just a small portion of the book and i didnt know david had not got his copy from oxford yet, so maybe this will be a little bit of surprise we will same to read it and then david will ask you to finish out the story tells a little bit about whats at this moment meant. Chapter eight, its called the battle for black cyberspace and it starts here, beginning april 12, 1861 america engaged in the great civil war. January 1, 1863 president Abraham Lincoln emancipation proclamation gathered legal force and for two years, five months 19 days thereafter nothing change for many slaves and then Major General granger and union troops arriving galveston, texas. There he read the proclamation. The people of texas are informed in accordance with the proclamation from the executive of the United States as slaves are free involving an absolute equality of rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves in connection existing between them becomes that between employer and free labor. No space was three and tellall slaves or free and some black people commemorated the day calling it jim t, the date of slavery and a brief period of in reconstruction 130 years later to the day David Ellington and malcolm symbolically assumed general grangers role. Their announcement was as revolutionary as a historic moment when the last slaves received word she was free. It started in 1994 Timothy Jenkins works, meanwhile malcolm that kim david back down to the budget in their malcolm gave daytoday claims of the future. I will stop reading right there, but david, tell us about that beginning, that moment and it may be a little hyperbole, but tell us about what ultimately became net know are in the significance of what it is you, malcolm and the team of technologists and others launched. Of course, first, thanks for inviting me and hosting. You just kind of blew me away. I completely forgot that. The specifically, that was the day we launch the service intentionally and we did tie it to june team is coming so it was tied to friedman emancipation but your eloquence there, but i was an entertainment lawyer in los angeles. I had gone well, i need to backup further, why would i care about or do something in african culture just because im of african descent, africanamerican, so i went to Howard University for graduate school and got a masters degree in african politics in the 80s. I then if so, i had a passion. I wanted to know my culture and there is the myths in the black community we walked around like kings and no, i wanted to know that true so i went for two years and that this degree and was always a part of my life, but then i knew i wanted to go to law school so i ended up working to make it very long story short i ended up going to law school in washington, georgetown. Go to georgetown law 91 when it to start at least by practice on the west coasts. I lived overseas in asia for a bit so i wanted to be on the pacific rim. I went to tokyo for a while, came back, went to law school when i graduated i said let me beyond the specific rim so i moved it to la. La only entertainment law and all my clients were black, surprise. Mostly this early stage, this thing called hiphop and r b and so there was also the time when gangster rap is just starting so i had to do with knuckleheads on death row in all that, but i realized i was really getting my feet wet in this medium and i was like really excited about it and this guy since i lived in tokyo i still kept in contact with folks there. Okay, there were seven or eight black people in tokyo at the time. [laughter] guess what, we all knew each other especially in that age group, separate from the military guys who were in tokyo, so anyway there was this one guy with a wild background. His name is kenny and he was a dj, but morning south africa, raised in libya, but his family was refugees because they were being persecuted in libya so they went to sweden, tall, beautiful handsome guy, a model in tokyo. I was at some event and saw him, a brother, okay whats up and we became friends and stayed in touch. Moved back to america, go to law school than la. We stay in touch over the years. He reaches out to me, hey david theres this kid malcolm whos really smart over here, went to mit undergrad and hes going to stanford, but im telling to visit you in la first. I said okay, fine. He came over, he was on a motorcycle comes up to stanford and starts school there. He was undergrad Computer Science and was going to get his masters at stanford. Are now practicing law and of course im an entertainment lawyer in los angeles so my parties are better. So, he comes down all the time he thought he was just going to go to school. Of course, he was always sleeping on my couch. Eventually i go to visit him and i like what you do up there, so i went again made a long story short i went to visit him once and he was at stanford living in palo alto. Apparently the Computer Science students called the lab the dungeon the dungeon. So, hes hes in grad school at stanford so we always has work to do. He said you can command my work to do to come down to the lab that i cant walk you through i have to finish a project. He sits me down in front of a big computer, chunky stuff, keyboards and im trying to keep myself busy and im playing around on this thing and theres a room full of computers, not a pretty room. Dungeon in the bottom of the building on the campus before the fancy stanford we have today. Im looking at all the stuff clicking around and somehow one of my favorite games in the day was a fellow fellow new clip from black to white, black to white and i was playing this game and it turns out it was in the university of stockholms a site that was some kind of Something Back in the day when it was all text still. I tried to get out of it and im sitting and theres a chinese guy sitting next to me and im like i cant figure this out and i cant find malcolm anywhere and at this guy so i said look do you know how i can he click, click and brought me back outside if you want to find stuff you can use this thing i created and it was called because i said what he doing he said hes working as phd and its called i said what is it called and he said a list of text and click on and go somewhere and come and is called yet another hierarchal organization, yahoo comments jerry yang who later became jerry yang. So im like he was just giving his phd, him and his partner. This is the world i got exposed it to and when i saw that being an entertainment lawyer and knowing my culture, i saw there was nothing in all those clicks like 2000 links, text links before the World Wide Web which means there was dubbed, death, when all graphics and sound and video is added, before it was text, mostly scientists and the department of defense designing bombs, so i decided that there was something here, so when i went back to la thats when i had i just started, started bantering with him on the phone back and forth and thats when we finally said something super narrow placket no, not black thats too hard, so i came up with no are and we came up with that more scenic i went to read a part has as one of my favorite parts of that particular conversation in the book. We suddenly this is you and malcolm let me start early, david was the approaching middleage lawyer. Malcolm was in print . Really . I was only 30. This was malcolm malcolms i will talk to him later. Malcolm was a young geek and david took the lead. His vision was dead on but malcolm was there to remind him of his, his proposal backed a technological charm. We suddenly realize the idea of a network of black culture was an opportunity that the two tossed around potential names for the venture that began exposing in their mind and afro net was first out of the gate and they ruled it out they discovered a company with that name already existed selling hairnets not to mention malcolm pointed out there was an Online Service named after it that already existed. Malcolms suggested cyber black and david squashed it, to hardy said. I could have easily gone down the path of trying to be the blacker than black service but i had to say were about to enter the 21st century about communication and creating a place where people to talk, debate and have fun. To to me the Business Model of the next centuries about inclusion and then it happened in tandem. Malcolm said net and david said no are. Unbelievable thats great, i mean, we are doing a project together, but thats exactly what happened. Of them the story moves on ultimately you have this plan for the company and you come before ted who is magic man handing out buckets of money looking for great opportunities and brought you all in. You made your pitch and the rest as they say was history. So, in a previous version of the book there was a chapter titled remember when the internet was black. It had everything to do with the company in that moment and the realization about your idea, malcolms idea and recognition from aol that hey, this is going to be big. Welcome sm by the way to tie the last piece up we built the thing for six months in the early part of 95 and juneteenth is when we flipped it on on aol. Its really also because of my then wife who has since passed, wendy marx, she was working for a Company Called red Key Communications that was the president of the founder was ted lyons. Steve case bought communication and made ted president lost the was ceo and teds First Initiative was im going to find and identify and fund and because as soon as he announced the company wide my girlfriend at the time said you should submit your idea and she introduced it to ted and we were the First Company funded by America Online so today another branch you may know called brought motley fool, so six of us. That the second what he wanted. He new content would be compelling why people would want to join and pay monthly for some service and those of you that remember Online Services we talked about her early the 1200, the 2400 baud and finally in the American Online carpet bombed america with all these diskettes and that was back in the day when there was prodigy and jeannie and compuserve and apples in the world so thats how they wanted to step away and really crush them and they did so we were able to we got printed ted and we were on server doors. Think we got 200,000 with 20 of our company come over 199,000 by doing it oh, that he would have 5 of the company so instantly a Million Dollar valuation like the mob right, a made man. We wrote this check and thats when i went to venturecapital and thats part of the reason we were dis different in the marketplace. We were the First Venture Capital Professional money. A lot of people started things including new york online. That was purely just new yorkers primarily, it was really a predecessor to us and a bunch of others, but we were the ones who really got they were like theres an opportunity here so that made us a corporate Strategic Partner and also Venture Capital check so corporate money from ted and America Online and Venture Capital money from sim card which is terry jones also funded world space. What is that mean for you to think that to know that to have lived that the first big commercially successful Venture Capital back property as it were online that brought millions of folks to this new medium as we talked about before no one knew what the hell it would be poor, what it was about, to think about a black Internet Service that featured black contact, black owners, tell us about the significance of the moment both with that time and also looking back knowing what we know now about the Current Technology landscape and there was a lot of hype. I got a lot immediate attention and malcolm did as well. Novel, it was different. We fortunately were not in the Digital Divide basket because we were up and running. They tried to put us there like but we were doing pretty well so is that 5. 6 was really our target market and if you have black folks online it puts me in a certain category, so we could demonstrate to mercedesbenz this is where you should advertise so all of that came about. How did it feel . My dream was to make sure you know i had gone through all these conferences and i will never forget i was at this theater in San Francisco and it was packed, 500 almost was all white guys, pocket protectors and they were announcing the grateful dead cdrom and cdrom obviously not online, not connected to the internet, but thats how it evolved. We went literally to cdrom and then Online Services because you put it in an dialup and obviously then the internet. The point being thats when it hit me that i was determined. I had studied african politics, was an entertainment lawyer in la whose clients knew all the content, we are american pop culture and certainly athletics, so i wanted to make sure our culture was not left out of this revolution. I was determined. I was passionate about that. I went to howard, of course im going to think about wheres the black thing, what am i going to do about that and thats how i was determined. Malcolm was different. Mit undergrad, grew up on a farm in pennsylvania, literally and he was a chess champion and hes now getting he was in japan, second languages japanese and now is going to stanford. He was like im just a nerd, nerd with a personality. So it wasnt as much as an issue but he bought into it. He got it. It was that importance. Definitely a Mission Driven business that was fortunate enough to turn into a bit of a business. Tell me, i will wrap up and we will do q a with the audience , but you reminded me about three or four weeks now doing an interview on science friday, npr and midway through they open up the line to color callers and theres a woman i forget her last name now, but leticia came on and said i was part of that net noir team, engineered, come from harvard etc. And remembering kind in the magic of that moment, but what was it like for you and malcolm. Of course yet all the attention that you had a team with you. Most definitely. Totally a team, i mean, upwards of 150 employees at one time, between 150 and consultants which, think about, i wasnt in oakland, i was in San Francisco in south park and to see that many black folks in our even to this day was a shock. Pathetic in 2019, 2020, but it was truly for those folks and those people involved directly yes, it was anyone can empathize. You can just imagine wow, we are doing the hottest cutting edge tech thing called the internet and our culture and everyones like looking at it and we are in magazines tv interviews, i lived it so this has been an amazing experience for me to even look at it in the lens of that was exciting, that was amazing. Email i got up every day and was ready to go, Endless Energy and yeah, it was magic and i am glad that everyone involved the overwhelming majority is people involved felted or part of a in the culture like with any company i do is that kind of role. You dont work for me, we Work Together and you have a role when you deliver your lane and i deliver my note lets do this together. On going to move onto one last thing i would be i think remiss to read a little chunk of given where we are and it has everything to do with the fact that by the end of the 90s you are transitioning out, net noir was transitioning and aol being sold and so forth, malcolm was out. Many other folks, black folks that were building things in the Technology Space along with the cross generally technology started to come, although this is gone, all of you were i would say not forgotten, but i remember you telling me like we were in the magazine and we were a big thing but not since. To show sort of called up and was the same way like no one has ever gotten the story of all of us black technologists and ginger near so a part this so there was a sense for me in which black software was two stories and if any of you read it or seen it and seeing the table of content you know theres but one into and thats because they represent two stories i ultimately found and felt compelled to tell with the one being the story of you and folks like you that was celebratory in finding folks that people had missed, the history of missed annies revolutionary moments, but the other story was the other part of black software and usually when i do this talk again the title of black software, one book, two stories and a little cocaine. Im going to talk about the cocaine to wrap up and its one of those stories my wife is like still dont understand why you have the cocaine stuff in the book and im like its real, number one. Its one of those things you just dont lose no matter what once you discover it. Its in the book somewhere somehow, so in the 1980s Silicon Valley heralded a second hightech revolution permits bay area core. The region radiates outward from Stanford University to the west and up to daly city past san jose over to hayward named for invention, innovation and not to ignore. The region had long ago placed mid life to industry. In the 1980s cocaine was the valleys newest purest most preferred investor strip it hightech curio. The valley sold at dreams, the sprawling intellectual and industrial spaces including a stanford connected lab and governmentsponsored Research Centers providing a new frontier for imagination to wander. Each had the impulse to build new tools with which to master the universe. Financiers capitalized investment and fantasies, the new tools brought to market in droves provided the satisfaction that comes from dreams. Cocaine was tailormade to fit the valleys technological if those, the daily grind demand to create value, pervasive drive to succeed and its capacity to aspire. The section goes on to talk about what we know and are all too familiar with which is that cocaine in the 1980s took a trip down from this area down the coast to southcentral los angeles were changed, technology, Chemical Technology and then the reek havoc on los angeles and then ultimately the rest of the country in the form of crack cocaine and we all are familiar with its aftermath. So, when people ask me what is black software it really is the two stories in the cocaine story in the book is really about thinking of how another kind of technology right because you go to engineer and so forth. My friends would say what the hell are you talking about black software or can software be racist or can the internet or technology be racist and theyre like with hell are you talking about and so i wanted to provide a different kind of analogy, if you will, a different technology, cocaine we can very well see how it changed and in its transformation change the way it engaged with the different communities, black and white and so black software that metaphor becomes a way to talk about not just the ways that we were able to marshal and use technology to build wealth, build community, to push revolutionary politics, but to point back to the ways in which these technologies were first introduced, produced and utilized to neutralize the threat that black people pose to the system and that is that becomes both timber to, so there was a sense for me that when all that came crashing down in the 90s there was a sense of inevitability that it was great, but couldnt last too long that black folks were not going to be able to profit and really have a stronghold in this new medium and so there was a course correction, if you will, but maybe lets wrap up and go to questions. If you will to reflect on a question that we talked about briefly several times and that is why it all disappeared, why is it that we look out on the internet and Technology Landscape and see so few folks like you back in the day, folks that are owners, commercially successful in the tech arena. Where did it all go . What happened from your point of view . A variety of things. The early nature of the internet was media driven and sorting was around advertising and i remember over here we had a company for six years, 6year old company and during that six years the young at the advertising agency, the young executive like the young kid who just joined would be given the digital stuff. Every year i would go back it when a new person so id have to education educate them about this audience of black folks, black professionals and became super frustrating. Those folks you know heres my demographic, heres the numbers, no, no, no, but is it still really about value . I can reach those black people and get more money to yahoo or at the time who matter, google whatever else so thats one piece of revenue to sustain that business was a challenge, but i think there was a really weird period in San Francisco, i didnt see any black people, and got down to like three or 4 of specially 2004, 2005, but lately i see black kids walk around and they are all working for twitter, google and im like where did you come from. They are not so much starting their own. In fact, which is a little twist for you is when they dos been out some are starting businesses that are totally mainstream. Thats the difference, not like this vertical target, thats number one. Or number two, starting venture funds, trying to start a venture fund or join one so they want to invest. Everything is about roi now, return on investment, but you see a lot more young black professionals that can code and do all of that, just as geeky as all the others and not necessarily as interesting as i wouldve hoped to talk to. You can see them Walking Around town all the time. Changed a significant chunk of the culture of San Francisco meaning they bought into that and that too they are, but they identify black and they still know their culture and tie into that, but they work at twitter etc. And they want to deliver on what needs to be delivered on. Really interesting how thats evolved so, no, i only see the occasional maverick or just im determined to build business, but its like the only business i have seen intact, i actually rarely see businesses now intact targeted towards black folks and black culture. We ended up broadening out to like market ourselves that if you like anything about black folks, music come to net noir and aol ultimately positioned us as well. Thats how it happened same xo much to say and we could go on for hours, but i dont think we will keep the room allnight. Questions from the audience, comments for david, myself, anything about the book . Stunned audience. Is there any fear or do you see any iteration of the i know i have seen fbi black identity politics is what they are going after. Yeah, good question. When you read the number two of the book and i will put it this way, about a year or so ago i remember i pulled out my phone from the intercept and the crux of the story was that the nypd was sharing their image data with ibm to build a new ai system that would target folks as suspects by skin color, so they put the lid off of this and said this is happening and then they said the other big story is that its been under wraps for five years and there was a moment i had already finished the book and i sort of just chuckled and i was like you got it all wrong because this is not a fiveyear story, its a 50 year one and theres a very real direct thread that everything we see today in terms of facial recognition, in terms of algorithmically derived surveillance practices, all of that has a through line back to a moment in the mid 60s, a through line right back to ibm, so this was just the perfection of something that started long ago, not the beginning and so to answer your question, there is a lot to be afraid of. Theres a lot already going on and a lot more coming down the pike that is in many respects i see it as a course correction, that is we had this struggle of technology. It is there. We use it, we marshal it for our interest, but you saw this in black lives matter and twitter. It was powerful till cops decided i can get on twitter also and i can find you. I know exactly where you will pop up. I dont care where else in the country you will be even if its all at the same time, so there is this push and pull that i think is the inevitable struggle around Technology Particularly when comes to issues of race. Going back to the probe moment or the continuing 50 years arguably going back with earlier technology in terms of surveillance and control, there is a certain amount of capacity of people, citizens, to push back against the state, when the state is the kind of policing that the fbi did. In the private sector and of course theres the relationship between the private sector and the government and people moving in and out with the different sectors. There seems to be on the one hand there is the power of the capacity to mobilize with this new technology and to educate and organize. On the other hand, where how do bounds get put on the use of data that is collected by these private enterprises and amendment shared or bought by the Government Entities that we dont like doing the things we dont like . Another good question. I think in part you answer already, which is in know part of me doesnt want to give short shrift to black lives matter and other movements who have used in Digital Tools powerfully, but i think the one thing they demonstrate over and over again are the limits, not a sense there is no other way or venue to push a people are pushing, but theres a limit to technology that you dont own, that you dont control and in some respects for some parts of the population are simply not familiar with that inhibits your ability to push back and then to think about what is on the other side and that is the free flow of data as you mention between private companies, government, shadow governments and other entities that is just almost insurmountable. I mean, think about everything going on down at the border, to control the threat, anything to contribute particularly on the well, i mean, i think im sorry im very pessimistic. Lets say theres not one more bit of data gathered, the amount of data and if its organized and processed at the way its intended to or some folks want to use it, theres no privacy period and its interesting ive spent time in china and of course here and theres this massive you know look at how bad they are in china because they rely on their government with all this data. I talked to plenty of chinese folks on the ground in mainland, thats okay because the government has it. Its safe. I havent heard any american say that recently here, number one. Amber too, how much we think its okay the private sector has all this data about us and they are allowed to make money off of our data and we never get paid for it ever, but yet thats okay , so from now on we have a lot of issues and i think, i dont believe any of them will be solved at the way anyone of us wants and so comfortable anytime soon. Thats my personal view unfortunately, but i like being directed. I have been in this game for a long time, since 95 collecting data. We want better advertising, better content, of course our stuff was not as sophisticated back then, but now to constantly tell me that everything you are doing is what i want or for better for me, thats just a lie that you have rationalized your behavior in your conduct, in my opinion. Thats my response. You mentioned some anger tech people are not quite as interesting. What with the right questions be for some of the younger people working in the Tech Industry to ask . Whats some things they should be more concerned about . Young folks, i think you know its hard to respond to that. If you really step back look at this room, this is their turn, this is not our turned. Its not our generation. We had our opinions and our parents that we were crazy so we have become our parents. They dont mind. To them, filming themselves, having sex and posting that is okay. Wow. In fact, we have celebrities out there that that is how they cause started being celebrities and a couple are multi billionaires as a result, so if we live in a different era that maybe you and i dont get, so i dont know. They like to think they are now weeded in this impact thing, the impact for them as a button to click and never get your hands dirty as far as im concerned, literally roll your sleeves up and do something. So, its just a detachment. All i can do i dont think critique is rude and disrespectful of them. I can just comments on the observations, i can make observations and hopefully encourage them to think a bit more about the implications are impact of what their conduct is, but im in no position to be a judge anymore in my opinion. I will Say Something similar and it comes from having the good fortune over the last couple of months and instances like these and so forth to find a lot of young black folks, folks of color that comment and say hey im working at facebook. Im an engineer. On that twitter, this, that and the other and they basically say the same thing, a, i need and want to make some money. Thats real and that is part of that like im hard pressed to judge and say no, you should be all about the revolution right now. And it differed all of these things that ive already had my chance, but they also all say im alone, i dont feel like i have the community, i see things that are not going the way that i think they should in terms of how this technology is being used, but of course, what can i do and say, so i think if there a question out there for them to ask its simply when is the right moment and i think what keeps you optimistic is that they are recognizing i meet so many that are like yeah, we do this stuff and im not ashamed to say it is kind of [bleep] up sorry, can i say that im video . , but then its the what next and the what do i have to give up or deferred to be able to really push this sense we need to do something better, so i think thats a question for them. I think is the question for us, how do we support a make it easier for all of us to push back in some ways we think we should. They are starting it at google and other places where the they are finally sane know we dont you doubt that contract with the navy. That is at least a start. Theres that element out there, but for black folks in particular its really sticking out and out because we finally have a decent salary. In a student debt like everyone else and now because we feel that its not necessarily true, but its all we have its like im not inheriting anything from grandma or grandpa or dad or mom , this is it. On the first one out the gate finally making real money and now you want me too risk all of this to do what and then i can be considered why did you leave facebook, well when you are looking for job at google or twitter or they all know they find out. Troublemaker. You meet an interesting point when you identified in the book this area and regarding cocaine and how san jose and Silicon Valley appear in this area has always been an area of change and being able to express a new thought, a new way of doing things, your own particular string of life and in the 80s the time short talk cocaine seems like there family values, family structures, a lot of people moved out of this area like you are tight about years ago, the same family has moved to sacramento and this area now house raised the nerds like you were talking about because theres that old structure in the community, value of education and its just flushed away and they have been raised because i have a nephew who is one of those nerds and they have been raised with a different way of thinking and of the traditional family values, so now they are open to think in their own way, which is the way that people down the block frank and okay thats what soandso does and i can do that too. Without the limitations, which we knew are there, but that i know for themselves. Does that make sense . They have to find out themselves , but you know i guess the support system and the old structure that used to give advice on how this way wins i guess historically if your great grandfather was a farmer and your grandfather was a farmer in your fathers a farmer no, no, thats flushed away and now they are without a farm trying to find themselves within this new society and a lot of them have migrated to the computer. Went to ask your opinion also in the angle of our those young black folks then, they are one the backbone of the community its a doubleedged sword, we can warn you theres racism in europe to deal with this, now they just dont see it or if you live but they will eventually and may not know how to handle it is your point, but is there an argument also that i meet them and they feel free, im going to become a billionaire, the next jack dorsey, so its like a doubleedged sword and i kind of prefer that where they are just going for it and look at it well, my thing is i get slapped with race every once in a while. Someone gets slapped because they are female organic, so pay if thats really it at least in this Tech Community i can live without personally. [inaudible] interesting discussion. To dovetail on this, have you guys looked at bob johnson lb chief 2 billion in looking at now seeing not that many as you talk the Younger Generation focused on a black product, lets just fit in do you i guess i know you say you like to be direct, whats your opinion on does the message get diluted when you are not focused on that clearly it does, but im progressive in my politics, so its not just about getting rich but, i also live in america and our society has skewed that way, which i had no control over. Certainly as color i have no control over. Society, white folks, the majority have decided its okay that a whole bunch of people very few people at the top can have a whole lot of money. They somehow allow that to happen and im like wow, so thats bigger than me. Tying it back to your point or your question and im not going to i want you to get in the game, be successful in the game, not in the black aim, but in the game and so no, we had our era, its like you know there was the cotton club, we had the cool schooling ended jazz and gave birth to blues, gospel gave birth to the blues which gave birth to jazz which gave birth to rock n roll which then split it became hard rock and then became sole, motown so unlike okay just let it go, i mean, its bigger than all of us but i want us to be in the game not sitting on the sidelines and that was my passion for net noir tying it back to this book that please understand and im so proud of malcolm in my former Business Partner of 30 years ago , damn near accurately described it as that was the passion. We were like not, this is too big, we got to be here and we got to be right in the middle of it and make sure they know everything about what we do and how much we are part of this thing called america you know we are popculture. We are hit whether you like it or not. Ever say man, who gave you that . You listen the blues . Who gave you that . Rock n roll, who gave you that . Oh, take us out of any sport, really . How would that look . So, we have our value at many levels as people and a lot of its based on pure individual achievement. Its pure athletic, saying, if that individual that comes out its like wow, who are we and i want to make sure that was on this new digital medium. I think we achieved it. Good time to wrap up and i will just say that i would probably say this anyway, but i think block black software is amazing though, amazing but for me too write precisely because its filled with folks like david who did amazing things, who have amazing perspective both about the time that they experienced and lived through and also reflecting back on that time and really helping us understand a history that is simply not there and in some ways not just not there but a lot of folks asked me, you know it must have taken you years and years and painstaking research to find this stuff and yet, it took a lot of work but its not as if it was not there, that it was not in many ways easy to find particularly when we go back to the 1960s and think about the ways that the computer revolution, civil rights revolution were a head on collision and not two separate things as most of our history tells us about, so the great part of me for me of writing this book was moment after moment of things blown away by stuff that no one has ever told me that i ever knew and even in the realm that i know stuff about, so its a great book, buy it, by several copies if you like. Its christmas time. Thank you all for coming out. Depreciated. Thank you again, david. [applause]. Will be talking this week with a couple members of congress about issues such as privacy and 5g and with other
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