Continue on funding for u. S. Coronavirus response in house and Senate Negotiators are working on a total Funding Amount and the house is exciting to see a bill early this week with the Senate Taking it up after the house. Gary shapiros president and ceo of the Consumer Technology association and he is our guest this week on the communicators. Esther shapiro, what is the cpa and what do you represent . Guest is great to be back here. Thank you. The Consumer Technology association represents over 2000 American Technology companies and we produce the greatest, honest, coolest most amazing event in the world and that is the ces in las vegas. Host and will we will get to ces in a moment but who are some of the Member Companies . Guest everyone you check to see when you walk into your local best buy, walmart, but we also have sony and apple and you name it. 80 of our companies are Small Businesses but the 20 of the big ones we have everywhere from google to air b b to lift and the disruptors as well as the bunnies just starting out with the new Technology Start ups as well. Host do take policy positions . Guest yes, we do. We have strong and clear on what policy positions we take. We are very strong in certain areas and stay out of other areas. Host what is one policy position . Guest we believe strongly overall in the concept of innovation is a very good thing and we should foster innovation and it is something america is in our dna and we excel at it and we want to make sure people can create something without having to go get permission from governments and then we want to make sure the United States is a leader in innovation so we tried to push policies in favor of innovation. Host what did you learn at ces this year . Guest i learned secretary wilbur ross and many other government officials they spoke and they said coming to the cement gives me faith in the future of our country and its the optimism that innovation produces. Its the sense that we can improve the human condition and make life better. The people can live safer, healthier, longer lives and get better education and communicate and have greater mobility and even we had Food Production and clean water and things like that. The most fundamental problems where we are seen that mankind is facing are being resolved by innovation and technology. Host how many exhibitors . Guest we had over 4500 companies in almost 3 million square feet of exhibit space. Host attendees . Guest over 170,000 people came from around the world and over one third or from outside the United States. Host joining us in our conversation today is rebecca kern who was with Bloomberg Government and she is the Capitol Hill Technology policy reporter. Guest thank you for having me. I went to ces and saw a lot of the exhibits and policy sessions. I wanted to dig into what are some of the areas of growth that you are seen at ces these days . I know its a lot of health and wearables but what else have you seen grow. Guest health is one of the biggest Bs Technology as an alternative to surgery and drugs and things like that and when we are growing by leaps and bounds because theres so much that technology can do that mobility is big but not only to receive self driving cars and onto cars but we also have different including urban mobility involving different rhythms and helicopters or people copters and of course theres all sorts of electric scooters and things like that theyre getting people around all forms of transportation. Guest and yesterday talking about transportation you testified at the house and Commerce Committee about Autonomous Vehicles and how to envision regulations around them so could you share some of the thoughts you shared at that hearing yesterday and the biggest takeaways. Guest theres been a terminus opportunity at this point in history for mankind where we are using about losing a Million People through death and from injuries and Car Accidents and most are human error so 94 of human error if we could just get rid of a fifth of those that we have weve all lost people and its a tragedy that does not have to occur in the future. If we get it right and then it will empower stable people. There is a witness there who was blind, speaking in favor of this technology, there was also older people are as well of all aging and people who are getting back and forth from the doctors and there is a competitive balance going on. Major countries like china and some of the European Countries and others are trying to lead on self driving cars but in the United States we have the technology and not only the existing auto infrastructure in the detroit area but also we have Silicon Valley and so Many Companies that are part of this ecosystem but we just have to get it right from a Government Point of view. Host gary shapiro, ces in many ways has become a car show. Guest it certainly is a show where theres almost every Major Car Companies there showing things because its not only that a consumer show. If they show the entire ecosystem is there they are doing deals because they do deals across the industry but you have the Chip Companies and the companies that make the columns and Different Things that consumers may want and brand names which consumers increasingly want to propagate their life at home or on the go and they want to put it in their cars but its Internet Access and a v and geo locational device and so many Different Things you can do. Host are we ready for Driverless Cars or connected cars . Guest we are certainly ready. Consumers are buying terminus amount money. Almost all cars sold now are with features that have lain departure warnings or automatic raking systems and all these things which make cars safer and were starting to see for the rest are now a real dip downward despite the fact that we are driving or miles and the death rate is starting to go down. Sometimes its variable based on mileage and things like we want to avoid like testing while driving but we are starting to see a great trend that im hopeful will continue. Guest where do you see legislation happening in the space . The industry is looking into some port of legislation and it is been tried before so what are principles you would like to see if we were to see a bill . Guest as you know, legislation went through unanimously to ears ago and they went to the house and then Nothing Happened in the Senate Although the trial lawyers are part of the drafting process and signed off on it but they change their position and for some reason no one could quite figure out in the senate. Its a challenge because if you go to Driverless Cars it will affect trial lawyers. They will make a lot less money because they are less cases and will affect auto parts replacement and tow Truck Drivers and even drivers themselves. All these legacy businesses and jobs are different but we have to deal with that but i dont think its our obligation as a country to make sure lawyers have jobs. And of think we should all essentially theyre trying to cut legislation and they see every new technology is an opportunity to sue or to preserve the status quo. We face that and know the things in my entire career ive dealt with. Youre dealing with status quo industries trying to protect themselves. We sought with the Motion Picture industry with the vcr and recording equipment and we are seeing it now with the trying to do with the internet to impose liability on Internet Companies because they dont like it. Same thing with the hotels but theyre trying to shut down air b b so between the Movie Companies in the air b b in the hotel copies they are trying to shut down a lot of newer competition. But what makes it great as they have the right to do that. They have the right to petition the government but what makes america greater is that our government generally doesnt listen to them. We favor progress and innovation because thats who we are as a country, not protecting the horse and buggy whip countries in the industry that are out there. Guest you brought up to 30 which is this Tax Liability shield. Its been in place for over 20 years but now we are hearing conversations in congress senator josh hawley and even senator Lindsey Graham looking at trying to break that an amended and in certain ways make it contingent on political speech neutrality is what holly proposal is that youre not allowed to have these protections unless you are ensuring speech online is neutral. That has no bipartisan support right now but do you first see cracks in 230 happening this congress . Guest well, if i do my job they should. Senator josh hawley has a very pro movie industry bias but there is no secret about that but he doesnt like the Technology Industry and is gunning for that award. Then you have senator former Vice President joe biden who sits on the same and the Motion Picture industry is a really strong, powerful lobbying group. I reckon i that but the fact is if it wasnt for section 230 the internet today with u. S. Dominance of Major Companies would not exist. There is a reason we have five times the number of unicorns in the United States and europe. And that is we foster innovation. We said this was a Great Technology and it sounds confusing, section 230 means that if youre an Internet Provider you are not responsible for what people, individual consumers, are posting on your website within certain exceptions. And thats the first amended thing. That is something which has allowed us to grow. Look, if this happens, if section 230 goes away will google survive and twitter survive . Yeah, they will survive but will a new start up survive . Absolutely not but will it threaten like aaron b or yeah, theres a problem there. That is the problem we face. This is not about these great people saying we are concerned about things and trying to bury child sex trafficking which they are falling for this ruse. It is a ruse because what is going on is are trying to say this is something that is not their hurting americans but its the First Amendment and about someones right to state their opinions online. We did it with the coronavirus in china. If the Chinese Government shut down the internet and the doctor that warned about it and now theyre dealing with a major, Major Health Issue because they are shutting down the government. We are not china. We have a fundamental belief in the First Amendment and in the First Amendment is what is vetted in section 230. Whether that it has internet scrutiny, i dont want to find out. We dont want to see Congress Erode section 230 and we will fight for that. Host it was Just Announced that britain is developing an office of internet regulation. Is that a slippery slope . Guest i believe thats the name of the existing British Telecom office that is out there and they been pretty resulted we will see where they go but their approach has been we cant innovate so we will regulate and they been unable to innovate and its one of their challenges and they recognize it and theyre trying to change it in so many different ways and we will see what happens but one of the reasons i think britain pulled out of the eu was the revelation that the eu was imposing that britain did not like. Id be pretty surprised given the british sensibility if that is the direction they are going in. I think the brits will be looking to innovate and to create and to free up some of the strictures they felt under because of the eu. I am not losing sleep over that one and maybe i just dont know enough. Guest speaking of europe, they passed cb dr, largest privacy regulation systems in the world right now and we are looking at doing something similar in our congress. What are the prospects you see for federal privacy bill moving this year and where or what pistols would you like to see if such a bill were to move . Guest thats another good example of good intentions. Across europe is a good thing it ascends to to the extent that we copy it similarly and make it better if theres a more global standard because that allows anyone to start a business and go global immediately. What we are most concerned about is not the standard itself but rather having 50 states with 50 different rules and each attorney general trying to claim a name for himself and grab money for their states. What makes america strong since our founding is the fact that on a National Basis we have a large innovation population we create and invent. If we try to constrict that by having 50 different states are 50 different rules thats the big problem. The number one thing is a National Standard. The second thing is lets stop giving incentives for trial lawyers and hungry attorney general. Sue businesses. Of course, we want to know whether something is legal or not and we will follow the rules, especially if it can be done but lets not incentivize every lawyer to do it with the problem i have with lawyers is i am a recovering attorney is that its the most profitable thing for the industries to produce big they pay a lot of money. Anyone can get a law degree. Its not that big of a deal and its not that difficult to pass most bar exams. You have a typical license to sue and the user. There is only so much of a lawyer tax our country can pay. Its our competitive disadvantage prayed we have a problem with another competitor like iraq or iran or somewhere else that we dont like i think we should trade but they have for our lawyers. We have so many lawyers they could teach english or do other stuff and we need to reduce our number because its out of control. Guest but provision wise where do you want to see privacy moving . You would like to see one National Standard so you are in support of preemption, it sounds like. Guest here is the deal. We face competition now in three ways. We have ourselves, there is europe, privacy, everything and very little innovation but i will tell you you have the right to be forgotten. You can do horrible things and erase the whole internet history. Google has to have several hundred thousand requests for people every month and that is what they do in europe. That is the law. They have the right to make their own laws. China goes the other way. China is no privacy. We know everything about you and will be watching you and know when you violate it. Its unacceptable for us and the europeans to say that this is what the government does. To me it is like goldilocks and the three bears. One is too hot, one is too cold and id rather be right in the middle because here is the future its a battle about unofficial intelligence and robotics and these new technologies that are coming require information and data. One of our universities said im lucky if i can get 4000 data sets and im up against the chinese have 400,000 and its no big deal to evaluate and to look for and to cure people but privacy is great but theres a tradeoff. We have added privacy in our own information and we should control it but not in every situation. If safety is involved, if health is involved we give it up a little bit and we always will and we should. With competition and advancement people give up their information with the apple watch for the greater good and it should be more on a voluntary basis but the Business Community meets the standards to follow and we will follow them. Dont kill all innovation in the name of somehow protecting innovation. If anyone who was lost a loved one to cancer we could get cures if we collate treatments and the persons past this is something we need to share information on and hopefully people will do it voluntarily. Host but are we aware were sharing this information conne connect. Guest its different when youre talking about healthcare. The reason that facebook and google some of these things are Free Services is because you are sharing information and you are getting ads more suited to you. Some people like that, some people dont. Were moving slowly to an era where he created standards apple and fitbit and samsung and google and others that better how these devices share information from no one talks about it because industry has a set of guidelines and its transparency and simple language and you cant result without information but these are things which are commonsense guidelines and the industry would be happy to follow good its just a matter of involuntary garlands and our government is evolving but we cant afford to chuck innovation we cant afford for our own health and safety. Host do think more people are giving information to a private Company Rather than to the government connect. Guest great question. We do have our private information to our government with our tax filings are never heard of anything ever leaking out from that. There is a certain im not a person that said the government should have every thing but on the other hand if you trust the brand of the company and that should be the next competitive field is who is the name you can trust with privacy and your own information then youll give more information to them. Apple is a great example of a company that people trust with their information. Samsung is another great example prayed theyve done a very, very good job of keeping peoples Information Private and that is worth noting. Guest where we have action is california so can you give us your impression and what are your companies thing is a far . Is it enforceable . Guest we set off a flurry of activity in large comedies have a lot [inaudible] the startups like if something is affected by that that may affect their funding and their ability to start a business and thats what we are concerned about. To the extent that they call europe a bad thing weve cleaned up the mailing lists but i just dont think states should have their own laws on this. We need a National Standard because it is chilling and if we have to fall 50 different states that kills the startup immunity and thats what we cant afford to happen. Again, the Big Companies can deal with the loss. They may not let me say this because they dont want 50 states and its more expensive for them and difficult to get out a message and its difficult to explain in different consumers in different states so how quickly can we get to initial standard. Guest speaking of these companies, they will now start looking at mergers in the past and acquisitions, large tech Companies Like make a soft, google, amazon, apple and facebook have conducted over the past decade read what you think of this retroactive looks back of the mergers . They have not indicated that they will take action or not but do you think this looks back is warranted with the size of these Large Companies . Guest federal trade commission has enormous authority. I interviewed the chair of the fcc at ces and raise the point about this look back at acquisitions i find troublesome in that it was so long ago i know electronically you been overwhelmed with millions of documents and they need to find something they think is interesting but tearing apart a merger that occurred ten years ago i dont even know how you would do that but i used to be an antitrust attorney and the problem i think is sometimes the antitrust laws in this i think a company has a right to know what they are doing whether its legal not. Those Companies Made acquisitions that follow the l law, ftc, the apartment of justice had to approve them in many around the threshold and now theyre saying were looking back and that scares me because sometimes when the government lawyers try to make their careers they are trying to take create new areas of law. You have a right to know what the law is when you do a business transaction and it should be clear. That is one thing we had to challenge congress and the revelatory agencies on but what is the law and how can the business follow it . Dont just create new theories because you dont like what happened ten years ago and theres a change in the Political Administration would deal with the future and if you have new policies make it prospective but to make it retroactive thats not fair and not the american way. Host gary shapiro, the white house chief Technology Officer also attended ces this past year. Is it important to the white house have a cto . Guest absolutely it is important that they have a chief Technology Officer with the first chief Technology Officer in the world was my best friend a former roommate, secretary of virginia and together we worked and he did something amazing. He led an effort to standardize the law of commercial business over the internet so commercial Business Credit carpet it was a bipartisan effort adopted unanimously in virginia and took over the world. That is the standard today for the rugby chieftain algae officer and government as a very clear job. Frankly, he continued the work of the Obama Administration in every major innovation area and that is a lot of what is going on with the Trump Administration involving technology. They say here is the path towards technology which you know will occur and we go to the right policies to make that happen but that hasnt been this ground shift and change from one administration to the other with technology and so i think its important that companies and businesses are looking forward because technology is changing so rapidly that we know where we want to go. We know we want to go competitively and we want to serve our people so they are healthier and safer and better served and better educated and we also know that it make sense to have someone there and that is their job. By the way hes done a fabulous job and his predecessors in the Obama Administration did a great job. Host are we on the right path towards 5g . Guest 5g is every ten years theres a better g. If it wasnt for wireless we would not have all these great phones in our economy would not be as healthy and we would not have the jobs we have so we ar are [inaudible] there are still some standards being worked out but theyre different ways and doing it. Its not like there is just one standard there but there are different sorts of spectrum that can be used. Theres been a lift in the sense our government in one of the Chinese Companies is putting us at risk if we use their Tech Knowledge he. I dont know. I trust our government there and that is what they will do. I understand it so now we are in a bit of a hard place and were trying to figure out how to learn it and were focused on how we to get to the broadband to the Rural Communities because they suffering without any gs and thats important. It will get there but a question of when and how but its a national commitment. I convened a meeting of two of our cabinet secretaries and several european administers and we talked about how the european and American Values in terms of privacy, liberty and all these Different Things are very much in common and we have a mutual interest in the huger we get the next technology especially with china is harvesting data from everyone and they have the data we need to do well in artificial intelligence, robotics, self driving plus they have doubled the population of europe and u. S. Combined in producing a million stem graduates a year. They have everything they need in china to go forward but we have a sense of liberty and democracy and a shared interest to make sure that we are competitive and innovative as welford 5g is one of the chokepoints but so is some of these other technologies and data gathering and artificial intelligence. Host is while waiting exhibitor at ces and member of ct a . Guest its not a member and they do exhibit even though they cant because cs is an International Event and they will meet the customers in latin america and the world and i dont know whether they will be there next year. Guest speaking of 5g, are we on the race to beat china . I know we are heavily competitive there and now huawei is out of the picture so will that inhibit our growth in reaching broader 5g deployment . Guest i dont know if we will beat china because they will have 5g more deployment because of their physical size so they will get there quicker in sheer terms of numbers and we cant win that game. Then they have a leg up with huawei being a lowcost provider. Huawei based a lot of their technology that they developed on stuff that the u. S. Had in europe had and they just took it. But we have good relationships with nokia and ericsson and other American Companies have stepped up and form this consortium to make sure that we can go forward as a resting democracy, if you will to make sure that we can produce something which gets our citizens to what they want which is fast and quicker, better, bigger, viral. Guest to switch subjects, or heading into the 2020 election. Im wondering what you think whether companies are doing enough to address this disinformation and misinformation on line . Do think theyre taking enough spots ability in removing fake videos and such. We saw another instance last week of an altered video of Speaker Nancy Pelosi ripping up President Donald Trump speech but interest slicing it with other parts of the speech which facebook and twitter decided was not something to take down. Where do you think this conversation is heading going into the next election . Guest politicians love to get points for beating up on facebook for that but yet they all use it because it has incredible marketing targets. If each one of their ads were carefully examined by a journalist like you would say it was totally accurate but they take kernels of truth and distorted. I thought nothing wrong with that pit that is what nancy plus he did and anyone who knows that she they were not recognizing the hundred year old guy but to me you are stepping in dangerous ground or if you think facebook should make judgment calls but i dont want private industry making judgment calls about political advertising. As an american that is why we have policies. Is there a more reasonable course we could take saying lets limit a timeframe for political advertising or as some countries have said lets cut it off the last few days . Then we could get more creative to level the Playing Field for politicians but if we start having Companies Making judgment calls about what is arguably real or not and that is the poster child that was obviously satire in a political ad for anyone in washington who looked at that. I cant believe that was the case. Sometimes the New York Times makes a judgment call and they have time to do that and very limited number of ads. I dont think its a fair burden to put on a company like facebook or others to say you have to make this decision but there should be a way of dealing with that that doesnt involv involve but that is not for me to say and thats up for congress to make a decision on. I hope they make when respecting the First Amendment because it has not gotten a lot of respect lately. Some of the traditional media jumping up and down saying thats unfair you know the First Amendment protects everyone and it affects how applicable speech and if that is facebooks right is all. Be careful. The first moment is being torn up on College Campuses and being torn up by traditional media and torn up by the attacks on facebook and if the First Amendment is so essential to we are as a nation and id hate to see it eroded. Host Gary Shapiros president and ceo of the Consumer Technology association. Rebecca kern is with Bloomberg Government where she covers technology on capitol hill. This addition of the communicators and all others are available as podcasts. President trump holds a Campaign Rally in charlotte, north carolina. Watch live this evening at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org or listen live at the free cspan radio app. Watch our Live Campaign 2020 super tuesday coverage of the president ial primary response from 14 states, including alabama, arkansas, california, colorado, maine, massachusetts, minnesota, north carolina, oklahoma, texas, utah, vermont and virginia with candidate speeches and results, coverage begins tuesday live at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan cspan. Org or listen from wherever you are with the free cspan radio app. During this election season the candidates beyond the talking points are only revealed over time but since you cant be everywhere there is cspan. Our campaign 2020 programming differs from all other political coverage for one simple reason, it is cspan. Weve brought you unprovoked view of government everyday since 1979 and this year we are bringing you an unfettered view of the people ringing you the government in november. This election season deep, direct and unfiltered. See the biggest picture for yourself and make up your own mind with cspan campaign 2020. Dot to you as a Public Service by your television provider. The u. S. Senate is about to gavel and print members will start to beat on the bill to reset u. S. Energy and environment policy. Legislation combines more than 50 bills offered this year by various senators, both democrats and republicans and includes issues energy efficiency, battery storage, carbon capture, electric grid is security, building codes and the new generation of nuclear reactors. Senators will vote at 5 30 p. M. Eastern to advance the