Lettie for organizing this event. I want to thank my agent, gail for being here, you have probably already seen one of the 10,500,000 Mike Bloomberg ads, the tagline is mike gets it done, no, gail gets a ton. So, thank you for being here. What an admission also, another great book that you have to re, my friend, Melissa Rogers who is a visiting scholar here we Work Together for 20 years. Her book, religion in public life and faith with the American Public life which has a nice double meaning is a great book to read. And i cannot resist honoring my entire doctor Mark Sheppard who came here today. I honor him because he is an awesome dr. Because he is a great sports fan, kids play sports together but he was actually the dr. To about half of the people in my part of bookings and there is enormous morning in this building that you decided to retire but also so many other friends here come i want to thank you all for coming. But, this is one of the coolest events brookings has ever had. And that has nothing to do with me. Im so grateful to have alexander here to lead this conversation by the way, i want to say we may end a little early because i want some time to sign any books you want to buy is my friend norm says it makes a Great Holiday gift and there is always a holiday somewhere down the road. So, we may end a little early. Many of you im sure no alexandra. Let me do they can to a bio and then the real bio. The canned bio is alexander is an american humorist in a newspaper columnist said in 2010 she became the youngest person to have her calmness at the washington post. She also runs the compost blog on the website. She is the the author of a field guide to awkward silences. Her forthcoming book is, nothing is wrong and heres why essays. It will be published this june. She was recognized in the 30 under 30 listed in a forbes in 2018. Now, lets go to the other part of the bio. A piece of satire she rolled in 2017 about President Trump was mischaracterized as news and included in one of the White House Daily press briefings. There was more . Their morning emails. They just sent it out in the daily emails. Reporter you will not surprise you that this happened because the pieces said, Donald Trumps budget is perfect and it will solve everything that is wrong in america. She has also appeared on jeopardy and she won prizes in the o. Henry pen off, she performs an international whistling congress jane competition, you can ask her to do that if you would like. Her play, the campsite rule, a sex comedy whose title is derived from an idea taken from dan savage was premiered at the capital film festival. If everyone in this room promises to buy my book we will only talk about alexandros sex comedy here today. In her new play is about the bill buckley debates and it is called inherit the windbag. And with that i turned it over to alexander. Thank you so much for this. I dont have a secret second bio for you. I feel unprepared. I just have your official regular bio which im sure is well known but i will give it anyway. You can skip me. Unless somebody really wants a bio. I grew up in massachusetts and i am a friend of alexanders. And i have a great new book out. How progressive and moderates can unite and save our country. Out this month. My wife once that you are really good at writing books but what you are a great ad is shameless so there you have it. Its funny, so, i flew back in from nevada last night, i apologize in advance for being less coherent or coherency. Already is happening. I was excited that i had this is a prospect on the horizon. Coming back from the primary where people are saying the line has fallen and people not only should get along but can get along. Right. Just before this event i sent out a tweet that read, that went with a column that was in the post today and the tweets read, democrats cannot defeat trump without the forces represented by Bernie Sanders. And, they cannot beat trump with the forces represented by bernie alone, and they have to come together. What i am petrified by and the reason i wrote this book and what we are seeing out there in the wake of nevada is such an Enormous Division that donald trump is having a wonderful time tweeting about it. I was very struck that his tweets after the nevada caucuses congratulated Creasy Bernie and then said, dont let them take it away from you. The moral of that story is trump on the one hand would love to run against those who he has called crazy socialist but he would also relish attacking the democratic establishment if they tonight sanders the nomination. So this party at inc. Has a lot of work to do Going Forward and we can sort of talk about that. The core argument of the book the first sentence of the book is will progressives and moderates viewed while america burns. And my great fear is that they will. I argue that people recall progressives and moderates and i know all terminology in this area is vexed. I have a full page on the word moderate and explain why use it anyway. But they have more in common than they want to realize not only that, they actually need to learn from each other. Now that risks making me an unwelcome family counselor in a terrible feud but its not that the progressives have to move to the center and that is that, i argue that progressives have been right about a number of things. They were right that moderates spent too much time over the years negotiating with themselves it was almost like you start a negotiation offering the asking price on the house and expect good things to happen. Progressives are right that the country has lived under the reagan economic consensus for way too long, i think the rise of democratic socialism which im happy to talk about can be explained in part about the backlash of the economic consent which is there is no problem in the country we cant solve every problem in the country can be solved if we just throw money at rich people on that is not a very good Economic Policy and it has not worked for a lot of people. I think moderates are right first and the disposition they suggest for the politics after trump we do need a period of what you would call moderation in the way we treat each other as americans. The moderates are right that we do need to find some way to come together as a country. I always love to do this with a big crowd because i like to hear the answer. What is the first word of our constitution . I love hearing the crowd say we. We dont say we as a country anymore. Above all, moderates are whites. Most cases in American History when Elizabeth Warren likes to call big structural change, we got a new refrigerator and i sent out a notes are very political kids that this new refrigerator represents big change in our house but what Elizabeth Warren calls big structural change often happens in steps. Two examples i use in the book, the original Social Security program was not the one we ended up with it was much narrower. It excluded a lot of people but we put a structure in place that we built on and eventually virtually all americans are most americans were covered by Social Security. The great Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights act of 65 followed weaker ones past and 65 that got us going. And so, what i argue drawing on a man who actually was a democratic socialist, Michael Harrington the author of the other america that great book that helps spark the program mike used to talk about visionary gradualism and maybe thats not a slogan on which you want to hang your hat i can imagine a really cutting alexander column how much more blurring can you get than visionary gradualism but i find it exciting because the visionary part says progressives are right that we need substantial change in this country. Moderates are right that those changes often come step, by step, by step ac, and then agree that if it has to happen over time. Not too long, not putting off forever, not what Martin Luther king call by taking the tranquilizing drug of gradualism but gradualism with a purpose. I think we might be able to win an election or two and actually pass things that would make lives better for americans particularly those who are left out. Sorry, that is a long answer but an open invitation to plug the argument. Thank you. I think you pretty much touched on a lot of the key points of where the intersection is between figs and taken a step back one of the things that precipitated this is what is happening to the Republican Party. You have a whole chapter in your book dedicated to that. The statistic to you have that i may not be entirely accurately quoting is that while democrats have become somewhat more liberal democrats have become a hundred more conservative by some measures which is why you will wind up with this alliance. Thank you. The 150 is right. Just to give one other piece of data, both parties has moved away from the center psalm partly because democrats have lost all of those that they used to have in the 50s but if you ask people who say there are republicans or say there democrats how they think of themselves only about half call themselves liberal. The eight other have call themselves liberal or conservative. Now, two thirds of republicans call themselves conservative and similarly if you look at how members of Congress Vote there well to the right of the center compared to democrats being left of center and that became even more extreme after the last election because the republicans who lost represent a more moderate districts and have more moderate candidates from other districts. This presents a particular problem around the broad centerleft in the Republican Party because the democrats and liberals in the past have lost the thoughtful almost all of the big arguments about how to change the country, how to create reform are now happening inside the Democratic Party. Richard nixon i will say a nice word about Richard Nixon. Richard nixons Health Care Plan that he put forward in the early 70s was to the left of barack obama as healthcare plan. Lots of republicans used to acknowledge that yes, its a problem that so Many Americans dont have Health Insurance and we need to do something about it, indeed obama care itself was based on ideas from the Heritage Foundation and from mitt romney supplanted massachusetts. Yet, this was labeled as socialism. In the book and we can talk about bernie some i think one of the useful things about bernies usefulness is i dont think we can move to singlepayer right away but i think having that in the debate has been enormously useful to declaring where that is. Suddenly people are realizing that obama care is quite moderate. The chapter on republicans is called missing in action because i think you see two forms of radicalization in the Republican Party. One is obviously trump and trump is more radical on immigration then even his immediate predecessors if his predecessors used a dog whistle Politics Around race issues, trump uses a bullhorn on these issues. There are ways he has moved in a more radical direction but there are other ways in which the radicalization of the Republican Party preceded trump and opened the way for trump. Im very fond of john f. Kennedy is line from his inaugural address, he who rides the power on the back of the tiger ends up inside. I think that is what happened with the Republican Party and donald trump. Speaking of socialism which you did sort of drop in there, when we talk about socialism. I think especially as a millennial one of the things that people who are slightly older here when they hear socialism. They think people are coming with torches to and i think millennial as you were saying copenhagen, thats what socialism in more of a broad opportunity for people to be bolstered by their society as opposed to right and left although im sure on the internet theres always summer. I think youre exactly right. I think i want to shout out my brookings colleague who recently had a very good column on young people and where they are coming from and he and i did it piece for brookings together and socialism, some of which i have used in the book. Young people have a very different view of socialism for two reasons. You have listed them both. One is that young people got hammered more by the fallout from the Great Recession than anybody else. If you are a college student, young person you went to college at a time when state governments were slashing their support for Public Education which means that your tuition went up, your debts went up and it was a real problem. If you are noncollege found and you are young you entered an economy where the Unemployment Rate shot up where opportunities did not exist as they existed before and where the bluecollar jobs that your dad or granddad may have had that paid a decent wage were not there anymore. So, young people have a much different view of capitalism than older people do for good reason. That is one reason why i think bernie has taken off. If you look at bernies program its a very specific sets of what i called today and my column deliverables. Young people look at it as a college looks good to me. Single payer looks good to me when i cant buy Health Insurance and so on. But the second is, young people didnt live through the cold war. I always like to tell the story i went to a Catholic School there used to be a catholic comic book called Treasure Chest with catholic ideas propagated. It was in the 50s and a friend and i were reminiscing about this some years ago and we will never forget an issue of that magazine that was devoted to what would happen if the soviets took over the United States. Our flag the Stars Stripes we have the stripes but the stars were replaced by ash and hammer. As kids towered before the teacher she was pointing to a blackboard where it was written there is no god. People in the older generation extremely subtle message. People with the older generation remember the soviet union and the soviet union was a more repressive regime. You didnt need that comic book to know it. For young people Socialism Means denmark, sweden, norway. These are not scary places. Indeed the people in denmark are the happiest people in the world. And of Socialism Means a lot of people are happy what is wrong with it. So, i think that is the difference. You could say they are more sophisticated because theyre more european icing view socialism to that optic and not the old object. Electrically its a challenge because theres a lot of older people in the electrics who associate electorates with absolute state control over the economy. I had one college saying come on, bernie youre really a social democrat but he continues to call himself a democratic socialist. They they say why dont you just call yourself a social democrat and everything would be easier. I think you are including in the book that basically youre saying this is the new deal, you are embracing capitalism within the new deal and heres an excerpt representing. And i quote bernies two speeches with socialism and actually both speeches are praising the new deal in a way that just about everybody who voted for all of the other candidates over the last few primaries would agree with. The only backup in the primaries the only was exciting from the book youre talking about a time when there was a successmaking needed a 2018 elections and he spoke to a range of people from across the country in the spectrum about how they were sold are doing that. And i thought one of the more fascinating people you talk to was Ayanna Presley from massachusetts. Can you share little bit of that . I had a lot of fun in 2018, is amber still here she arranged all of these journeys where i met a lot of and spoke with a lot of candidates on the ballot that year including brown, has a great book out represented by gail brown and abramson congressional candidates an Interesting Group from new jersey for example but two of my favorites and i write about at some length were Ayanna Presley and Abigail Samberg are out in richmond. On the face of it ayanna and annabelle are quite different from each other. Was on the city council in boston africanamerican woman 40 years old at the time. She took on a quite progressive member of congress from her district but her argument was that it was not a moment weve been traditional liberalism. Her slogan which i like so much i made up the title in my last chapter is, change cannot wait which i thought was a fascinating combination of barack obama was a change we can believe in a Martin Luther king is the fierce urgency of now and its only three words. In her constituency was made up of younger people very much like the bernie constituency or the aoc constituency. Africanamericans and other minorities in her district plus a new class of younger somewhat techie people in the district even though most people in the district actually like mike, b, is abigail spam burger, she be to keep party person in a very republican district that is some of you may remember was erics district he lost it to the tea party person spam burger needed trump votes. She needed to moderate votes and probably even needed some conservative votes. She also was critical of ciampa but in a more mild way than ion i would be. She spoke and i quote her in the book extensively not so much attacking her directly as suggesting that we need a different kind of politics. My favorite promise that she made is, if im elected i will just represent the people who voted for me and agree with me i will represent everybody in my district which i recently discovered was Abrahams Lincoln promise in his congressional race. Now, the democrats would not have their majority of people like abigail spam burger hadnt been elected. I honor presley would not have the influence in congress if abigail hadnt been elected. However, abigail would not have been elected without the energy on the progressive part of the party that presley represented. Rarely does a book event ratify thesis in a book but i did an event recently of politics and prose were somebody got up in the audience and said my politics are well to the left of abigails but i work my heart out for her and so do a lot of my colleagues. That is the kind of unity the party needs and its not just the party i like Pete Buttigieg line assumed to be former republicans. There are a lot of people out there who want an alternative to trump that they can vote for and you need to bring together these forces if you are going to have a successful coalition. One of the things ive been wondering about you keep saying we need to bring these together and expand those on the left describing as you. Out actually leftward policy in terms of things like medicare for all but it does seem like how literally how can people reconcile these two perspectives . I have been wondering i havent decided on this yet. May be a broker convention would be a blessing because everybody would have to sit around the table and get along there are some upsides and downsides into a broker convention. I think some of it is how each side talks about the other and here i risk again falling back into that family counselor role but i think if all moderates are just neoliberal sellouts that are constantly cast that we and if all lefties are cast as extremist we dont know how the american system works the very language that each side of this movement and i do see a broadly as the movements if they keep talking about each other that we they are going to make it much harder to do business together nancy pelosi gets a good ride in my book. I quote her, i love the moment during 2018 when she was asked about candidates promising not to vote for her as speaker implodes he didnt care at all. She said just when it baby. So pelosi didnt even take personally some of the stuff that was out there. I think thats the first step. The second step is to understand how the system works. Here i was very heartening to recently and i dont mean the corrupt system, you mean the normal democratic system where people actually do have to have a giveandtake if they are going to move forward. Recently aoc said something interesting. Some people criticized her for it and i think it was awesome. I thought wrongly, maybe she read my book. She said look, we put out singlepayer because why give up everything at the first stage of negotiation. If we ended up with a public option with everybody covered with that be so bad . I think more people on that side to talk that way and similarly i would like more people on the moderates side to say there is good reason as we are out before talking about young people and socialism there is good reason why a lot of people moved to the left theres a good reason after the great crash of 2008 that capitalism just doesnt look quite as good to people as it might have in the 1990s and lets take into account where this. Of view comes from. So, that is a start. I think the candidate that can do that in this campaign might get a leg up. I think Elizabeth Warren tried to do that but then she went after Mike Bloomberg rather effectively. It going after Mike Bloomberg the highest to make every candidate on the field had to fight through all of these awful primaries is not happy with michael bloomberg. What youre saying is talking differently about one another and listening to one another which is radical but also i guess im not having difficulty expressing this but given what happened with impeachment where it was made possible by this alliance but it also revealed the strength of the opposition it heighten the fact that this is a critical time to be figuring this out. What you think the stakes are . I think the impeachments in the Senate Acquittal with only mitt romney voting to convicts. By the way, i love the mitt romney speech particularly if some of you know i am interested in the interaction between religion and politics. It was lovely to see somebody invoke god not as ratifying my own view of the world but rather as a challenge to conscious. I thought it was just a fascinating speech romney gave the tape. But what impeachment showed or the eight forces were up against i argue in the book that i would love to see a different form of conservatism and a different kind of Republican Party which we have had before. I grew up in a conservative family so i cannot buy my very nature hate conservatives. They are people i love to her conservative. I started turning when i was around 13 years old. I had a dear uncle i spent 35 years arguing politics with their when he died i gave a eulogy at his funeral where i made a. Of quoting Richard Nixon and i look to people in the church and i said i like the nixon quote but i was quoting him because i was hoping uncle ray would come back to life to say i knew you would be quoting nixon someday. I lay out a little plead for that party but i dont think the party will come to exist unless this version of it suffers the really overwhelming defeat and is forced to come to terms with where it is leaving itself. In the long term i think this republicanism is in trouble because the Republican Base is so old. I always tell my kids im not worried about the country and the book is dedicated to the coming generations which is why i am grateful you are here and i always tell my kids when you guys take over and we die off im not worried about the country. The only problem is i wont be around to see it. But thats in the long run. In the short run the dangers are too great. So i think these two signs must stand this version of republicanism a great to feet to have any chance of having more rational warmer conservativism. It does exist. Ive been reading an interesting book, you shouldnt plug others books but a very interesting conservative has a book called the time to build which is about how we need to rebuild institutions in our country. Thats where we could have a little conversation between progressives and conservatives but thats a different kind of conservatism that we are seeing out there right now. Another thing aoc said is that in many countries you joe biden would not be of the same party. With the twoparty system is that you wind up with an enormous tent in which people are trying to be asked to align themselves and you talk about values and the pieces of that thats not just but redistribution together. Can you tell about their shared vision that you think everyone has in common over that large tent. I love how closely you read this book. Thank you so much. Just on the twoparty multiparty system this is brookings we could talk about that all day is each presents challenges. The advantage of a multiparty system is you can vote for the party that really perfectly represents you as in germany and in sweden you might have a centerleft party and a left party that would be separate so aoc and joe biden would be in different parties that has representational benefits. The problem is all of the Coalition Building takes place after the election and so you could end up with the italians had a great word for it. Its up party a autocracy and there is great alienation because it was just the parties making deals in the back room. The advantage of a twoparty system is that they coalitions are made ahead of time so you roughly know what coalition you are voting for. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. At this moment we are seeing particular disadvantages to our system but i argue in fact this moment particularly 2020 the values represented by the center and centerleft are what the country needs to get through this pass and needs this coalition. But thank you on the identity politics. It is a chapter i worked hardest on in some ways because it was the hardest chapter to write because identity politics as you all know is very difficult especially in older white guy with hair this color writing about identity politics as a high risk thing to do. And i argue that the very term identity politics is vexed because as stacy abrams noted, we did not ask for identity politics. We were made slaves because of the color of our skin. We were segregated because of the color of our skins and for us identity politics is a way of fighting back against oppression and you could say that about women, and lgbtq people and a lot of words. The second. Is that what we do need to recognize his have their various forms of injustice all that need to be dealt with simultaneously thus, there is a particular form of justice faced by African Americans that are faced by no other kinds of americans. There are forms of injustice faced by all people of color that are not faced by other americans. But they are also class injustices that are faced by americans of all colors including white workingclass people in the country. Some of whom voted for donald trump because they were angry. Yes, i think you can never deny the strong racial elements but i think it is a mistake to deny that there is also an anchor class of justice and in the book i. Out in my friends tom and i did some work on this that if you look at the geography of the trump vote he did especially best in places that were not economically. Thinking of pennsylvania, parts of wisconsin and michigan or acid she sits. Very solid democratic place hillary carried out by it a lot less than what democrats usually carried it when trump is on the ballot. So i use the ideas of nancy fraser to say that we need both a politics and recognition in the politics of redistribution or distribution if you prefer. Where we have to speak simultaneously to the particular injustices faced by groups who were left out through a lack of recognition but also the injustices faced across the lines across racial lines connected to class. And, one of the people has done this best was cheryl brown. One whom i interviewed in 2018 gave us the back of the car and gave a sermon on the dignity of work. I really think that equal dignity should be a central idea or is essential idea of the kind of politics im recommending in the book. I think dignity is a word i would love to hear because i think it is what people are frustrated that they are not being granted and i think it is a heck of a critique of the way donald trump is carrying out his presidency because dignity is not the first word that comes to mind when you think about it. That is great. I was also struck i thought stacy abrams says it beautifully in the book and elsewhere that identity politics are not people asking to be treated specially theyre asking not to be treated unfairly because of who they are. Thats a simple way of putting it. Theres nothing controversy owen that and so i think dignity is a lovely note to end on as we start moving the room to open questions. What gives you hope is your readiness that people want just fight in the face of a couple of things. First, as he mentioned 2018 gives me hope. Sometimes i think if trump doesnt destroy our democracy he may help us save it not by design but by pulling so many new people into political activism, young people especially but not just young people, i said the work of the great and shes a scholar but like a reporter which is a compliment because she travels all over the country to places she has a big study of places that voted for donald trump and she can get herself into any door even people with the most conservative views because shes the most knowledgeable nfl fan in the country. So she can talk to anybody about football and that opens the doors to things particularly in states like pennsylvania. But what she has noticed is that even in the most republican small towns and country groups of people usually led by women many of from not particularly ideological but turned off by the president s politics had met in diners, libraries and Church Basements yes, liberals go to Church Basements to to begin forms of political action. These are places that saw very little mobilization except on the white side of politics before. That gives me hope when you look at the 2018 results is the fact we dont pay enough attention to. If you compare 2008 terms 25 million more americans voted democratic for congress in 2018 and 2014. Thats an enormous change. Its not like the countries eyes were shut to what was going on and what that tells me and i also noticed trump has never accepted in the rasmussen polls ever had a majority of americans on his side. Most americans are either recoiled or opposed to his way of dividing us. I think americans are tired of this long period of division. I am a realist, i see the ways in which we are divided. I think this will take a lot of work and thats why go back to dignity because if i oppose, which i do come of the ways in which trump divides us along so many lines, gender, race, immigration status, i also dont want my side, the broad Progressive Side to divide us by talking about parts of our country as flyover country. By implying that people who might disagree with us on one election in one election are permanently lost to us. Democrats won the governorships and senate seats in pennsylvania michigan and wisconsin just to pick three states at random. In 2018 because ten or 15 of people voted for trump game the other way. So we can persuade each other and we have to open our eyes with empathy which is another word i talked about in the book by feeling it was made fun of that bill clinton feels your pain but thats actually a good thing and we ought to be able to do that across racial lines more than we do and we ought to do that across gender lines and across class and regional lines. I hope we will get to that in this devices democratic primary before its over. You hear some of it. Bernie does it, biting, buttigieg, warren, they all have pieces of this. I would like to be more of a bit more of a dominant theme but they have to beat each other so i might be disappointed for a while so make the individual candidates will have problems but in the aggregate i like the person who is running. At some. We are going to have to frankenstein us into a person. They try to run for different candidates in 1836 in different parts of the country but it did not work. I think it might be time i see a couple of hands. Im going to start on the rights to make the microphone is coming your way. Im with the National Academy was social insurance 41 of my favorite groups to make it to we looked at the piece you wrote for us about 20 years ago somatic remind me of how much older i am paid it was 28 years ago and we just stood at pease on social insurance and socialism. But is that more of a distinction without a difference or should we emphasize the difference . Thats a great question. Social insurance exists in capitalist society and so obviously social insurance is different from socialism in that sense on the other hand the inspiration for social insurance came from both socialist movements in the countries where it got established and certain forms of conservatism christian democracy is a good example where in the interest of social cohesion, in the interest of preventing people from overthrowing capitalism social insurance was introduced to create a certain amount of harmony and justice in a capitalist society. Again the reason why i like the term social democracy is that most socialist parties in the world have evolved into social democratic parties in place like sweden, denmark, norway germany when they are in power i see a friend who is a swedish socialist and social democracy accepts that the market is important and useful as an instrument but that the market should not dominate all aspects of society thats what i believe and you could call that person social democrat and that would be true. You could call him a new dealer and that would be true. You might even call him a leftist Center Democrat and that would be true. I would like to de demonize democratic socialism is a concept but there is no need to hang your hat on that concept to win an argument. The new deal was influenced by democratic socialist as i read in the book. See a statistic that i wouldlikn to it, every summer and i think it was the post,. It must be true. [laughter]. But in New Hampshire primary, and a very relatively uncontested republican primary. In the venture, hundred 32000 people came up to vote for trump. Number one is that true, and number two, what does that say about republicans being able to get the boat out. Is is different and they make fun of me as being in the last one sinful person. If theres a little, and what i would find out is 15 percent of the people who voted in the republican primary made in the affirmative effort to go out and vote against double truck and the primary. He had about 8 percent, network of italian candidates. Always in the New Hampshire ballot because its easy to qualify. He put in all of the people, is about 15 percent against him. We think we know that the constituency while pilates. And the people he did point out when i said 25 million more prophetic most in 2018 and 20, 13 million more republican votes. This is it. Im real mobilization in our politics. So i guess i was struck that 15 percent, going out to do something other than vote for trump, if you lost 50 percent of the republicans, to the election it would be in big trouble. That is from my point of view. A hopeful spin. Hello i am retired. I remember not too long ago, the republicans could make quite a big deal over a democratic democrat not having it in the American Flag on the panel. Another totally indifferent to the white house where theres joking with the russians and the american president has been banished and seemed to be indifferent. And the democrats position themselves as the party of National Security and that i would note that the republicans done in good. Maybe its just the facts. The idea that putin is pushing standards which undercuts the argument, that the republicans, look what they are doing. With russians that is. A couple of things here. The republicans work pushy or anything they were, clinton, like the. They hated hillary clid they doing that in 2016. So there is a debate over what that is about. Bernie Sanders Police worry they get when it is about helping win election. I think that what is certain that we might actually agree on is that the russians are very good at using her hatred of each other against us. Theyre using our divisions against us. Theres a story that the russians created a fake insight muslim group and i think it was houston, and called the demonstration, then they created a fake pro muslim and that is to say about pro muslim whites group. This is what they are trying to do. But i agree with your point, a whole chapter on nationalism and patriotism in the book. Interesting to me that for a variety of reasons, to naturalism, because of the way, we have our own positive form of nationalism in the United States but you could argue that lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt and a lot of other people had a positive american form of national lesson. We discredited for a good reason. And by fascist movements in the 30s. But patriotism, the love of country, it is not a reactionary force. In fact a lot of the solidarity, we feel towards each other comes from the fact that we begin and we believe that i started with before, and that if we do feel a particular form of obligation to our fellow americans, just as we feel particular forms of obligation to people in our own families. It is a mean we hate other countries. It doesnt mean that we have that sort of attitudes of massive superiority. We just love our country. I think yes the republicans are very vulnerable in this against people have to call them out on this. It is astonishing, and the trump years how republicans have just turned their backs on lip romney on that debate and every once in a while, republican will speak up but it is sort of like laughable then they go underground again. Theres something very disturbing is going on in the side and i think it out without apology because i need is against National Interest of the United States. Whichever chapter on foreign policy. Broadly speaking, i am sympathetic to what might be called liberal nationalism. I think american needs to play an Important Role in the world. Do we really want to see a world in which our power is so diminished that is dominated by say chinese regime or by the putin regime. Regardless of other regimes. On the other hand, Bernie Sanders and elisabeth warren, arguing that a lot of average americans have traditional internationals because adults eat those forces representing their interests their economic interest anymore on the International Stage and i think the point, the architects of postworld war ii internationalism, had the backs of American Workers. They were actually trying to create a world it was fairer, more of a social democratic. And that we need to bring them together internationals for people like biden and but a judge and others. With a concern for the mainstream and the American Worker bernie and sanders talk about in this way think we need to go. I grew up in massachusetts, middletown. Exactly, full of empty males. I detested president reagan. But if you think the democrats ought to adapt our god is rule. The 11th commandment that shall not speak ill of any other democrat. And talk to pete about describes bernie as going to burn the house down. Im a fan of reagan so the 11th commandment applied in this race. The problem in the whole business is trust but verify. On each side. I wish bernie had not equated the establishments in a tweet last friday. Theres some escalation going on here. But theres another idea that i wanted to put on the table so thank you. I talk about the power of negative thinking. In a note think if you look at reagan, he felt whole ideology about three things basically. In tight government, anti communism and anti testing out of those insights, came whole conservative program. I think that those insights when it comes to trump, allow progressives to see where they fundamentally agree that they are anti prejudice and reeses and anti authoritarian in prodemocracy. And so on. And out of those, if you go from bernie to pete to warrant to any club charge, whose rule of the things about the Trump Presidency the whole of them are criticizing. I would say with bernie, if i could say the way he says it, racism and it is sort of appealing in a saturday night light sort of way. I packed my wife is from brooklyn sunlight brooklyn. And so i think there is something to be built out of that so do sort of talk about reagan and some lessons that progressives can learn from him. So thank you. Can we, my doctor. It. Yes, i would like to hear from your doctor. Wonderful doctors. Doctor shepher t work purpose of this is intended by the way that the whole agenda. If you going to be an alternative to bernie, some people dropping out, maybe sooner rather than later not wondering if the head of the d c, is there any role in any of this. Here is the problem. I think after what happened in 2016, and after the attack by bernie ites, it a point in some cases and sometimes a mixed view of that. Ive taken 2016, there should been more debate. The ideal number of debates probably the average of what they had then and what we have now. So i dont think it is ahead of the d c. I do think it is significant that jim down in south carolina, is going to endorsed joe biden. I am so curious what we might learn from our great newspapers about whether nancy pelosi may have encouraged him to do that. So dont think ahead of the d c will do it. I think there are a lot of lines running up right now as we sit here and it probably amy klobuchar, because of her showing at New Hampshire. Was really amazing. I give her full credit for what she had. Third place was our best showing. I think a lot of it is going on in your side this morning, on some of the talk shows. So i think youre going to see it organically within the party from the people who were opposed to bernie. I think its going to be important that the whole thing not look like a gang up on bernie. Even though, because as i say, the democrats cannot win that the energy of the bernie forces. I am really worried thats configured in a way where we will just repeat some of the problems that existed in 2016. It was bad enough to do that the first time trump ran but when we know what we have to look forward to in the second trap term, it would be a tragedy of think to begin to describe it but thank you. In the back. Middle back. Please help me be optimistic. I didnt care and 72, i didnt think mcgovern would win but i wanted to make a statement. And im really concerned that that history will repeat itself in 2020. Regarding this. Now please make me optimistic. Thank you. So i was an alternate delegate for George Mcgovern in 1972 got elected two days after my 20th birthday. I remember exactly what youre saying. And i remember encountering income elected body and not yet elected politician and a democratic meeting in massachusetts. And they said i have always for the left most delectable regret. That was his role. And ive had some of the same thoughts and i dont know about you but going to do they make me feel old. Unzip the very notion you might tell some young pretty night, the well from my experience, it makes me feel just like i think would make them feel just like what i did then, read the older people telling me about losing my hope and my idealism. I think that is problematic. So despite the election, having lived through that, i have some of the same worries. I think the difference now is one of the reasons why many people went to work for George Mcgovern was the war in vietnam. That was the crisis and people who supported him were looking for the Democratic Party to take a strong position on the work justice we both were supported by the kennedy or jim mccarthy did in 1968. In this circumstance, the central issue is not for, i think it is donald trump. I dont think we can move forward before first, dispatching what that trump is him and i argue in the book that dissolution of speaker you want a restoration or transformation, is a cut above full choice because in order to have transformation, we need to restore certain basic democratic values. Restoration is not enough because we got a deal with underlying problems that he represents. Think people probably shouldve felt that about mr. Dixon but i asked if donald trump is the greatest threat believe in. That is the case for we cannot let the divisions that really tore us apart in the Democratic Convention as you recall was rather problematic mcgovern got nominated at 2 00 oclock in the morning. It took a little bit away from the convention. And we like to talk about it. Thank you. And maybe we ran into each other summer in 1972. Right middle with vitae. Ties her close. [laughter]. And coordinated. I am confused. [laughter]. So alive, so i think we all are. As you talked about, the publican party, i sort of wish they were a different Republican Party, i am haunted by my memory of a book, thinking i name is michael laughlin. He read the maybe ten or 12 years ago. It was called the party is over. Had been on the hills that the republicans suffered for 28 years. Under the end, as he read the book, he said as i was coming up, some of the republicans and torso to me, we have one strategic goal. And that is to undermine the confidence of the people in the electoral politics in the country. So should they say available parties. And basically our group are about the only ones left active. As i looked around, and said theyre not doing too bad of a job. In the long came senator palin, and that donald trump and the detachment from reality seem to show up. It is actually quite scary and i wonder how you think there are doing if this is the strategy of the party that once was. And full disclosure, was registered republican for 40 years. Until about 2003. And i felt that i had been the party had gone away. But how they do anything on undermining basic confidence in the integrity of our elective politics. Im glad you mentioned sarah palin and i argue that she should be seen as a forerunner to trump. I put his because she gave john mccains running mate, bless his memory. She said, we believe that the most of america is in the small towns that we get to visit in these wonderful Little Pockets of what i call the real america being here, with all of you hardworking very patriotic, very pro america areas of this great nation. In a right that the places that she was talking about would be central to trumps success. The Republican Party has been losing more moderate and yes, liberal voices. For 50 years. Really since goldwater took over his victory in 1964. We cannot, there used to be people traveling calling themselves liberal republicans. People like and broken senator mathias, from maryland and you go down longtime lindsay. You can go down a long list and then the liberals, they either lost or they were defeated by democrats no longer wanted to build a republican majority in congress. An example of that, they were one of the bestloved people in her district of anybody in congress, and she was finally voted down the boss office, and should be said that she always points that out. But also because her boat kept going down because the matter how much people loved her, they did not want to be adding to it in reach, or the other majority in congress. So all of these courses, i met with a Group New Democrats elected to 2018 and he said, no and another time, a lot of you, these were suburban moderate progressives, a bunch of you might have been progressive republicans. In about half of them nodded yes and the other half was deeply offended that they would ever be, the thought that they would ever be republicans of this is been going on for a long time in the Republican Party then trump was only accelerating this. So yes, it will be sometime. On the other hand, i do have some confidence in the power of selfinterest. And then at some point event where young people are coming to the country, the youngest generation is the most progressive generation to reach the new deal. Measures. This party will survive but to go to your last point, i worry about active, measures to reduce the electorate. When you look the Voter Suppression measures. If anyone by voting with people or against you. Thats a small democratic way to do it or you can try to reshape the electorate to exclude the people who are against you. I really worry when texas, passes a law that says, you can use your concealed carry permit roy d but you cant use your government issued student id. Something is going on here that should trouble us. So thank you for your question. You over there in the start. I like the people that have distinctive gear on that i can put up two. [laughter]. Hi, also frenchcanadian. One chart. French was actually my first language. One of the things that no one is really talking about is the economics, the big picture. In the 1920s, which is very much like now in terms of rightwing government, regulation and so forth. And restrictive immigration laws by the way. And we know how that ended. It ended with the political belief being discredited for generations. In the next time though the republicans cut eight years, was under eisenhower and we can argue he was basically right of Center Democrat. Certainly by todays standards. The only thing the build out dragon is him, was the fact they leveraged the Balance Sheet under old man bush. And then we gave eight years w. We know how that ended. In the narrative, you dont hear the narrative around you give the republicans for years and things look good. Because some of the regulations, maybe you go overboard. The cycles and support. But the deregulation, as overboard as well has the leverage in the economy. I know this is very boring to a lot of people but the great thing about having events working,. This for good. So my questions uses. In order for the republican and i argue the tropism is applicable is in. It is the Republican Party. So almost if you look at the big picture, once the god of liberty the god of democracy, almost which are trump to be reelected this year so that all these roosters come to rest whenever the expression is. And then we have an economic downturn which will probably be more epic given the way the economy has been done by central banks. The republicans will be once and for all, and against her again as opposed to just like whoever takes over in here for now if this is the democrat is going to have to not only undo the damagt was done in terms of the bureaucracy and so forth, but also in terms of tax cuts. I think you get my drift. You talk a little bit about that. Cement your question reminds me of a moment in the summer of 2008 where i happen to be sitting with two guys, they were very smart about finance guys. And one of them, laid out the economic collapse that. , almost exactly right including like a big make bailouts. The other one was a republican and again, remember 2008. He said i think this would excellent time to put the democrats in power. He said because he wanted to preside over the germfree right, Herbert Hoover did wonders for the Democratic Party. The great depression. And it ended that. People would hitchhike the signed to say pick up rural votes for hoover. There is so much hostility. So hoover, a i dont think it government, issue for mass economic suffering especially because the first people in the country, get the roots of it in not saying that you are saying that. I think we ought to be, i think that is something that i try to do with. But i do really think lets say for the sake of argument except to point and what you did point out in so many respects, is a republican. And that is a funny populace, not a real populist. Little bit in trade and sometimes he goes off and depending on how you want to view the immigration issue, perhaps but on anything that has to do with real economic power, he is very conservative republican. I just think resting in the wake of the acquittal in the senate, how dangerous another four years of trump would be. Maybe, im never inclined to say, lets lose the next election because the contradictions will be widened that. It doesnt usually work well. But even if you believe that, i just think trump poses too big of a threat for us to take that chance. Thank you for your question. One more prayed and i hope it is a quick one. I will try to give a quick answer. I hear you promising you will be quick. [laughter]. Statement i will be happy that i will play as many books that youre going to buy. You alluded to this in one of your answers. Do you think butter suppression is a problem and if so what can be done about it. It. I do think butter suppression is a problem and actually some things are being done about it. My friend miles, but when doing some with on another project, he was secretary of state in connecticut has written some great pieces for the american prospect pointing out that we have two contradictory streams of state terror. Because you have a lot of states that are far from engagings Voter Suppression raising the way to the ballot. They are passing, same date Voter Registration they are extending early voting in oaks kinds of things weve seen, in recent elections are the states that expanded access, made it easier for people to vote have actually seen significant turnout. Something we need to be visionaries, not simply stuffed efforts to suppress the votes to make it harder to vote but to also, aggressively try to make it easier for people to exercise their rights and to carry out their duties. And if i could close with the following. What i was thinking about this book, was trying to think about something that would really encapsulate the argument that i was making. What came to mind was the oldline from mark shields, who many of you know. The political commentator and mark once said, then in politics, as in religion, we can either hunt for airbags or search for convicts. I think this is a moment where our accent or emphasis in our energy, should not be on hunting heretics, it should be on seeking converse. And so whether you by my book or not, i hope you will all for the next. The convert seekers. [applause]. Thank you very much. Book tv covers book fairs and festivals around the country. This whats coming up. Next week and it be life in the tucson festival of books at the university of arizona after that look for us at the new york lanes as well. In the virginia possible in charlottesville. Linda this Month National black writers conference in brooklyn. For more information for upcoming book fairs and festivals and watch our previous festival coverage. Click the book fairs tappan website. Tv. Org. Youre watching book tv on cspan2. 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