Welcome to the inaugural writers hour at James Madison university. We are glad you are here. I want to thank the provost, the first person that i post about in this series. The everyone at the communications further help promoting the event. The we wouldnt be here so thanks to you. We also wouldnt be without john grisham. He should have his own show. Before i met him i knew he was generous with his time and money and you cant go three days and i got to know him most would agree he was a gravedigger and never met someone that for their fame so blithely. Hes a regular person. But of course he is a famous writer. In one place that sold a quarter of a billion bucks and another place he sold 300 million so at some point you throw in the towel and say a boatload. This is academia there is no keeping it loose but here we are on stage in academia. Weve probably got john on the cool side of the mountain where he belongs and i hope he becomes a regular visitor. Please welcome our friend and benefactor, john grisham. [applause] we have to talk about this as a way to have conversations with writers. I got tired of signing books and pretty lazy anyway and didnt want to travel around the country and if you cant publish or pay for it its important for business providers to meet the fans. I would invite him to come to the store to have a conversati conversation. We sit around like we are about to do here. I enjoyed reading but also the crowds really enjoy the hearing of talking about what they do. So we began our conversation about doing something here and we worked on it for a year and here we are. One is in the fall and one is in the spring to see how they go. If the students enjoy it and you enjoy it. We feel very lucky to have as our first guest James Mcbride, a writer, journalist, musician, songwriter, composer who is still a writer in residence at new york university. He is best known for his 1995 memoir the color of water which became an instant classic since then hes written three historical novels, all exploring the complicated issues of race and tolerance and survival in america. Hes written a biography of james brown which we will talk about in a minute. He is a serious musician. Hes played with a lot of grou groups. He is also a member of probably the worst band ive ever seen in my life. Theres a rock band called rock bottom remainders. They think they belong on stage and think they can play. They perform and book festivals and conventions. I guarantee hes the only person who belongs on stage. In 2016, president of the award and the National Humanities medal and in a ceremony at the white house president obama said James Mcbride has humanized the complexities of discussing race in america. Through the writings of his own uniquely american story and his works of fiction formed by our shared history, his stories display the character of the american family. Please welcome James Mcbride. [applause] welcome to virginia. Glad to have you here. You have never really left a. Two years i. Of two years in bose two years in dc but mostly in the new york area. Most of my family is still there. I have three kids. One is 25, one is 26 and 2016. Also i have an adopted child is 23. Thats enough. You havent spent much time in virginia but it is a state that is very important to your story. My mother was a polish refugee. Her father was a jewish rabbi ran a grocery store. Your mother at a young age realized she was rejected by the white kids because she was jewish and she felt more comfortable around the black kids. When she was a child that antisemitism is pretty strong, no shoes, no dogs, those kind of things. The jewish were not accepted in her community. Her best friend was a gentile and she could go to Graduation High School because she wasnt about to walk into a forbidden place. By her father and the way that she was raised. He was a very strict orthodox jew. It wasnt that she wasnt that welcomed. In the south it is up to about that much but it was prevalent when she was a child and in some ways it is still quite prevalent so it was quite an education doing the research to put together. She flooded and always hated the South Pacific or experience growing up. She didnt care for her father, either, right . Her father was a rabbi that was very abusive towards her. Sounds like a lousy rabbi. Yeah i mean coming have to be careful when you use these terms because you say rabbi. What does that mean. He was someone who in those days jewish synagogues in the states would sign a contract with a person and that person would have to stay there for a year and if he was good they would sign another. We traveled quite a bit because he was a terrible rabbi and no congregation wanted him around. [laughter] when he got down to the south there were not a lot of who wanted to stick around so he managed to stick around long enough for her to finish high school but he was a predator. He wasnt a true rabbi in the sense of what a holy man in his. He abused her for a long ti time. He was certainly sexually abusive towards her, and yeah. Postcode. What about her mother . Her mother suffered from polio. She was from a good family that was kind of pond off to him because the arranged marriage was part of the European Jewish wife. Because they both came from europe. She just suffered until she died. She was alone in a very charismatic women and was admired because she was so kind. People who understand the suffering are often kind, but she died of some kind of stomach cancer and when she died, once my mother left home and married my father, our family situation ritual. She never saw her mother again after she left home. Said she pleaded to new york. She hung around harlem for a while and was attracted to that life. She was working for her aunt that had something to factory in the bronx. She almost got sucked into that life there was an employee there who was a violinist from North Carolina named Angela Mcbride and she ended up marrying him and starting a small Baptist Church in greater brooklyn that still exists today. He was also a preacher . In those days it was called a bible school, bible college. They started at a Church Called the metropolitan baptist which became a black church in harlem that is bigger because of adam clayton powell. Then they left the metropolitan and started a small church when we dont do the projects in brooklyn and it started in the living room of our apartments. There is still one living member, the last one and i see her almost every week. So she marries a baptist preacher in brooklyn. She wanted her son to write a book. [laughter] she had to provide the material, right. [laughter] she had eight kids in about four years. Eight years over the course of 13 years. My father died of cancer and she had investigation going back to her jewish family for help and they wouldnt help her. Once youre out of the family, you stay out. I brought her along with me. When we met people i would say im James Mcbride and this is my cousin and the 10gallon hats would go like this. [laughter] what about barbara bush quick. Yes. She did for 25 years but she had the big c texas style in downtown houston. And barbara bush put on the big dog in houston. It was a big show she would invite three or four writers every year to come she put her whole body on a plane and flew all over you cannot tell her no. I was a big fan of mrs. Bush. She reminds me of my mother a little bit and tells you like it is even if you dont want to hear it. [laughter] 25 years ago her husband had left office and was always there with her to do the literacy thing so we had a quick dinner afterwords then drinks and a big crowd. We sat down together in a corner with me and h w and had a heineken beer and he was telling baseball stories from the days he played at yale. We swapped stories for about 30 minutes with big bush. That was a lot of fun. And thinking how did i end up here . Why am i lucky enough to be her here. Back to your mom. This is your first book. Obviously your mother converted to christianity. Yes. It wasnt a pumpkin conversion but the real deal. Yes the oldfashioned where they bring up the bench and you sit down you sit on the moaning bench. She recalled the moment where she accepted jesus into her life very clearly it wasnt phony baloney stuff you see nowadays with the camera on. And never heard of the moaning bench. They could call it a chair. The same thing. So they bring up a chair, a bench and you sit on it. Some people call it the moaning bench some people call it nothing. [laughter] you just come up and we stand there that the minister says will take you to the back room. I know what the deacons do back there. [laughter] is that when you baptize . No. In my day i know she went through but they took you back there then you had to go to bible study then they baptize you later. All kids . I dont know the last two or three i dont know if all of them did that most of them did. Toward the later days when we moved to queens some went to Movement Church and they didnt demand as much 11 00 oclock or 12 00 oclock. Get out. [laughter] we heard about churches like that we couldnt believe it. [laughter] lutherans were really christians the. [laughter] but we couldnt get over the black folks down south come to church at 10 00 oclock and then go and tell about 1 00 oclock we are caving with hunger and end on get a bite to eat and then go on all sunday night. And then it stops. And now its another 20 minutes right there. [laughter] there was no clapping. Its beautiful that old gospel the old baptist hymnals. I have an album because i use to work with a guy from arkansas he used to hire a lot of us when we werent working on the road and he was an old southern baptist. In fact he had a group of 100 choir directors in would sing those old baptist hymnals. Beautiful music. I have them all memorized. [laughter] mollys house was orchestrated chaos between eight through 12 children i was lost in the sauce so to speak i was in a house little money and little food the power was derived from who you could order around. Thats what money called one of the five young ins. And with the power grid of the household fit to be tied tortured, tickle tortured, tickled, tormented, id and commanded to suffer all sorts of indignities at the hands of the big kids didnt believe in the tooth fairy and mommy yielded ultimate power. She was large and in charge. In her house. She only had to say pick up that bag and eight people would kneel down. [laughter] there was no discourse. I always thought she was very mean that she was strict. She was the only white person around and didnt care which made it worse. [laughter] she would never admit to being white. She wouldnt talk about it she would say im lightskinned and change the subject. She didnt like to talk about race too much she wasnt hot and bothered too much. Just do good why should they like you . You dont brush your teeth. She would find ways to cleverly maneuver around the race issue to focus on school. Its all about education and religion. The 19 sixties . Were there other biracial children in the neighborhood . No. The range of color and black america in my neighborhood made some very light white looking also very dark that i knew no one who had a white mother i did meet anybody like that i cant remember. May be in college there was a kid in high school his mother was white that he grew up on the white side of the tracks and he acted more white. Whatever that means. [laughter] lets dont go there. I liked him he was a nice gu guy. Who was her second husband . He was in the housing projects where we lived and he was a very good person. I love you very much because he raised me. He was from Richmond Virginia he was a different type of man he was very firm and really had grown up in hardship in richmond came up on Campbell Soup they were hard men. Not then that they didnt talk much but but when they addressed you they looked at you dead on there was always business and they would take care of business if necessary. They want that way but he was a very firm person. He chose not to live with the family. He had 12 kids. [laughter] we never thought. To i assume anybody would bother with us but the house was so chaotic and he was such a well ordered and neat person and had been a bachelor most of his life and he married this woman with all these kids so eventually he they had to because they sold his brownstones they sold them for middleclass development but he had a basement area that was his. Neat and nice and tidy and you knew that when you walked in you had to keep it nice like with a record player. Oldfashioned. He was a good person. Who would marry someone with a kids and then have four more . He loved having the kids. He was very proud of us. I talked to his brother many years later and i would tell them you are crazy whats matter with you . Why you marrying this woman . He said have enough for a baseball team. A football team. [laughter] and come on weekends with sacks of groceries . We would wait for him to bring sacks of groceries and entenmanns cupcakes. When i became a grown man i wrote a entenmanns and thank them for their cupcakes. [laughter] but i still think of him when i see those cakes. And wonder bread that was near his brownstone. And i read this . My brothers and sisters were my best friends. When it came to food they were my enemies. [laughter] there were so many of us we were constantly hungry. Scavenging for food in the refrigerator and cabinets. We would hide food from one another. Squirreling away of precious Grilled Cheese or fried bologna sandwich but the hiding places were known to all and foraged by all the precious commodity was usually discovered and devoured before it got cold. Entire plots were hatched around swiping food complete with doublecrossing and backstabbin backstabbing, intrigue, outright robbery and gobbled evidence. [laughter] said thats why its so easy for me to write about slavery later on. [laughter] i went through it. Lets talk about slavery. One more question first. So once you guys are all gone, lets back up all 12 went to college. Because she was determined you have the best education shouldnt care about money or close or food but she cared about education and your religious faith. Thats it. She really didnt want to hear. If she was raising kids now they might put her in jail. [laughter] she was so adamant and strict we were not allowed to stay out after dark ever. We were not allowed to bring friends into the house ever. We were not supposed to tell our business to people ever. So people ask you what is your mother were . I dont know. Was your father were . I dont know. Until mommy showed up and then say is james adopted and then she would get mad. But it was a strict way she raised us to think because we were taught not to trust outsiders we were taught to believe they didnt like us and they would hurt us some kind of way and she created the us against the world. Nobody will care for you other than your family and gods go to school and do the work i dont care what anybody else does dont tell me about it doesnt matter its only what you do. How is it possible to dream of going to college in that environment . You wanted to escape the house. You were dying to get out and go to college or the army. She didnt want you to stay. Hundreds of thousands of doctors if you look in new york not how many of the great cardiologist in psychologists and architects turned out so many minority and jewish people who went for free but none of us were allowed to go there. She said dont apply if you stay home you mess around you get into drugs your old enough to go out on your own this doesnt even apply to city college. And then she would write zeros all the way down and then sign it and in those days you would mail it in and then she would send it my mother didnt see overland and tie graduated i saw for the first time i went. How did you pick that quick. My brothers first wife went there everyone before me had gone was in the process of goin going. I did not even know how to spell it. They would send me the application and they gave me the most money so i went there. That simple. I was so grateful. So once you are all gone all 12 are in college 11 finished. What was her life like in her later years. She had to adjust to be a widow when she was 56 i think we lost the house in queens she cannot afford to keep it. We moved to wilmington she did not like it she did not drive and then she went to philly of the working class. So by then we were able to support her that she had Social Security when i got out of school i started to work and she just managed she had her purse snatched two or three times at least a couple times in philly. And then she had openheart surgery but then she went to temple and graduated at 65 she went back to school and graduated 65. Listen to this i had a friend who went to temple and said they had a test your mom was trying to ask people what to write on the test. [laughter] and a cup of those papers and said i helped with those. She majored in social work. And she did that for a few years before she retired. When you talk about writing this book what was her reaction . She wasnt crazy about the idea. They are all dead. Im dead to them. Because i wrote a story it was a mothers day event i want to write the story for mothers day and to do some research and i did it anyway. That started it that was 1981 or two. And then to square with me what happened in her young life and was extraordinarily painful for her. Its hard to talk about being sexually molested by her father. She didnt say it just wrote the words on a piece of paper and held it up to me. Was hard for her. And then to leave her sister behind. Her brother was killed in world war ii. Left on the 15 and never came back and died in the army. Killed in action. And a younger sister and when she ran off she abandoned her sister and she felt tremendous guilt about that. That lasted the rest of her life. She met her sister after the book came out one of her sisters children but she had tremendous guilt and i dont think, there was one thing she did not get over it was leaving her mother and sister. She came to christianity after losing her mother and felt god had saved her and redeemed her and gave her a Second Chance and jesus had reborn her for the sin of leaving her mother but she could never quite get over the guilt. That something she bore with a degree of dignity her and her sister met in later years. They were not close but she had a cousin in california she grew close to that her and her sister were different people that she had enormous respect and love for her sister and vice versa are on vice verse even of her sister was a hard woman because she had a hard life. As a bestseller and a classic i read a couple years after it came out 20 years ago is still being taught today still a very famous book. Did she ever take any pride in it . In my mothers brother they dont make a movie about it. [laughter] she was happy as a writer but more than what she had done as a mother. Honestly she didnt feel like she did a great thing. I love my children. The lady at the street had 20 kids. Yes but seven are in jail. [laughter] she didnt feel she did anything great but she did anything that any mother who loves her children would do. And that proof is today with mothers raising all kinds of children some of the things that they go through today is nothing she didnt bother with it. She would say i would never get tired of the miracle of watching you all grow up. That was the truth of her. What was the reaction from your siblings . Most of them liked it. If you were jealous. My brother said why dont you give out my credit card number also. So much is going to macys not like theyre getting a jaguar. [laughter] the most of them were proud of it. They are private people and their memories are different than mine. The broadbrush part of it why did you say i was that . Fat. [laughter] look my sisters hold it down but big or small i love them very much. [laughter] this is being recorded. [laughter] my brother billy was very proud of it he was wonderful in of all my siblings he loved him the most it was very proud it helped him and when he graduated from college he sent his mother a check every single month until he died. He predeceased her was very difficult for her. Where we working when the book came out. I was a saxophonist. Are you through with journalism . Yes in the late eighties. And then i quit and move back to brooklyn and i wrote songs and musical theater and during that time. It was going to ask you and you said you wrote most of the book on the road. Yes. I was touring. How do you write on the road . When you get to a place if you get to a city have to do a sound check. Your driving all night. I wasnt playing with the Rolling Stones. You roll into town maybe you do tonight and you have to do a sound check. Then everybody breaks to eat. Maybe do that 11 in the morning or 2 00 oclock in the afternoon then you break and go back to the hotel room then the guy gets out to chase the lady then you put it together and do they gig and then come back at 2 00 a. M. And now youre wired and you sit there you know and then you write a letter to somebody then when you get home you dont stay out six weeks at a time maybe four days and then go back. Even now i have tendinitis in both ears i would stand right in front of the drummer. And then by the morning. I did lots of that thursday friday saturday sunday night with monday and tuesday off. I had a job teaching english as a second language to polish refugees. I put it together. I can write anywhere. How do you do it now . I get up at 430 between 7 00 oclock get my son to school and come home maybe i go swimming or do an exercise in and take a nap or two. [laughter] if im on the road i can do that. Quiet, a box a holiday and is good. [laughter] i dont like to write. Its too hard its not fun or joyful it just helps relieve the pain its not like you sit on the beach and you have your drinks come on. [laughter] then you go back to the library. [laughter] maybe that explains why you write a book every seven years. [laughter]. It take you seven years what you done for seven years . I did write a book for quincy jones that took three i wrote his biography. Key call that his autobiography . My name is in on it but i ghost wrote that for him. You seem pleased. Yes because i think he was a great man. [laughter] we are on the air. Let me amend that it is quincys work and quincys life and im glad he got his book ou out. In 2002 you publish a book called the miracle of santa ana based on the true story you heard somewhere about some black soldiers in world war ii stranded in this beautiful town and tuscany in italy. Based on a true story. So with historical novels. Novel is fiction and history is not. How do you adopt something in the past and take it and fictionalize it as your own to stay true to it . Good question. Maybe its not how that wide. The reason why i did it because every time i tried to figure out a way to write about black History Lesson is a see that they go right to the comedy section. Who stole my cheese. Or whatever its called i wanted to write a book that would change the mythology or challenge the mythology of the white world war ii veteran. Because thats the mythology where it has gotten us to where we are now so i wanted to challenge that with the book thats interesting and the dynamics of race and class that we ignore because we have a wonderful culture of tapestry that america is and we put the story in the pipeline so thats why i decided to do it. How accurate is it . Thats a good question. Its pretty accurate except but is just a moment. But it is 75 percent accurate. I stayed at the foundation which is a foundation which helps writers and artists for maybe from oh six months total i spent a lot of time in florence. I spent a lot of time there. I didnt know what i was doing and thats the equivalent of the italian 711. You have to figure out what went on with the a lot of italians. He said he didnt know what you are doing you have written one Nonfiction Book called innocent man published 2006. Because i read the obituary of the man who was almost executed in oklahoma i love the story so much i have to write the story so i jumped into it i my publisher this is the next book and then once i got there i had to start digging i had no idea what i was doing im not a journalist i know how to verify facts or trust witnesses. I was lost. Im surprised to hear that because your knowledge of legality and how people march within the framework within the legal world that seems to be so sophisticated im surprised to hear that i guess that shows you we are like ventriloquist as long as people dont see her lips move it is all right. [laughter] i feel the same way you feel about nonfiction. I dont think ill ever do another nonfiction. Thats why had to clean up the business of quincy jones one untoward comment i take it all back. Its a great book. It can send you into legal fees that will cost you many thousands they sue you until you run out of money he keeps doing you thats a way to punish you. So all the people that i wrote about and i thought maybe there were some repercussions. People think when you walk into the room hear the big dog and you become a target makes you say you dont know who to trust our job is to listen to people and to be involved with people. Then people treat you like you are a suction cup and your the big guy its a terrible place to be i hated it. Lets get off the lawyers. [laughter] something far more pleasant how did you get spike lee involved in the movie . He called me on the phone one day. Driving down the street my my own business i picked up the phone he said this is spike lee i love the book i thought he was talking about the color water and i said which book and he said he said the santa ana so we met and he wanted to do a handshake agreement you want to write the script i said i would take a whack at it and we didnt come to an agreement for a year and he wanted to do a handshake agreement. I did with him and it worked out great. You say im going to do it he says all raise the money write the script all raise the money we are paid in the end and thats how it works. That would never work with me. [laughter] but ive been sued five times. [laughter] it takes a lawyers a year. But your books are so eminently fillable as soon as your name is attached to something has a great monetary valley on a great monetary value is a different level of name recognition. I think he did a great job. I had nothing to do with it in the first time we saw it a big fancy black tie fundraiser. With 5000 of our closest friends didnt know anybody two kids from mississippi we are also very nervous we hadnt seen the movie yet. It was fun to watch and had some problems i didnt say anything but the sheer excitement to see it overwhelms some of the problems that was my case with the movies i enjoy watching them i dont get hung up with what they may have done wrong. The director has to put a handprint on it. They have Creative Control is not the end of the world. Back in the early days 25 years ago i had a phone call one time from stephen king and he said if you hit the big list for the big leagues so that was pretty classy. And we were talking about movies he said every experience in the world from winning the oscar with kathy bates and missouri so that when it comes to hollywood theres two groups of liars. Those who deal with hollywood for whatever reason thats a very small group the second consist of us to do if you are in the second group get all your money up front, kiss it goodbye and expect it to be Something Different if you dont like that and go join the first group. [laughter] ive always remember that. People say they really screwed up the movie i just laugh and say i dont care i enjoy watching. Thats healthy. I like the move on the money also. By the way if we have any time left we will take some questions from the floor dont pass around the microphone just shout them out and i will repeat them if you think of a question hold it for a few minutes moving right along this is the slave rebellion on the Eastern Shore of maryland you published in 2008 only six years after your previous book. With a young slave girl named liz its a beautiful story. It wasnt a commercial success but what i really wanted to do was write about Abraham Lincoln but i didnt feel qualified. It was too hard and Carl Sandberg had done it so well. What am i going to do it for . I went around the Eastern Shore. I still feel the underground railroad there are so many stories. Not just daddy has a secret in the barnyard type the story. But the relationship. I wasnt as good then as i am now that to discover how the underground railroad are one railroad worked especially how with the underground railroad. But really it was more blacks and methodist more than people realize. Are you still touring . What takes you so long . [laughter] if youre on the road i get it. Making music i get it. My marriage was falling apar apart. Okay okay okay. [laughter] thats good. [laughter] stop right there. Dont go too far. But then five years later you pick up the pace. [laughter] the good lord. Keeps on keep going. Im going to try one more time. So this is a beautifully written book like all of your books but this one is wonderfully funny. It was described to be tragic and the slave takes up with john brown and shows up in Harpers Ferry 1859 when he tries to steal rifles and cannons to start the insurrection. And your character is there and his nickname is onion. Where does this come from . I now. I wanted to write it in the voice of a girl but i didnt think i could pull it off. It would be funny if it was a boy pretending to be a girl and just make the caricature of john brown who people thought was crazy and stretch it out and make it funny. They just right for caricature anyway. It was an easy stretch. Like these kinds of books we you have to take your medicine. I like those kinds of books they dont do that for me. Do you ever worry about overdoing the comedy . Some of this is really funny some of your oneliners in a very serious situation. 12 Frederick Douglass there is parity taking some heat for that. I dont feel bad about it. I dont care. [laughter] im trying to get people to think. You have to get them across from the lily pads to the pond. You won the National Book award. That was a surprise. I then to the ceremony by the way. Not because my book was nominated i had to pay for a table. [laughter] the only way i could get in. But george saunders, and a few others and you are not supposed to win. You are so unprepared you did not even write a speech. What happened . I still dont know. It was just one of those things. I dont know what happened. It was a great moment for me but i was unprepared. Sometimes god drops in the room and says guess what . Thats what happened. It catapulted me into literary world im not sure that i earned the person rights 30 bucks how many have you written . 40. [laughter] i guess i set myself up for tha that. Theres something about commercial success Michael Jackson was the biggest in his lifetime and i have had this conversation with stephen at a certain point me say whats really good . Just because a book doesnt bore you to tears doesnt mean its a good book. Whats a great book . So i never Pay Attention to award if its the last one i have been blessed so much i have to got give god that change right now. At least you have one. , youve got to be kidding me. [laughter] i can count the awards and you can go pick them up. Im not complaining i am rewarded in other ways. I have another question. What advice to give to an inspiring writer . Write and rewrite and rewrite similar when the first book is done nobody pays attention write the second and then when you do that you are an overnight success then you have three in your pocket. [applause] i tell people occasionally i hate to give advice as writers because what works for us wont work for somebody else. There are no rules you cant pick up a handbook to say this is how you write. Its different for everybody. But i do tell people if you are serious until you reach a point where you are writing one page a day with the goal and you know where the story is goin going, nothing will happen. It could take you 15 minutes for two hours but you have to do one page a day and then a year has gone by and i have a manuscript. But until you do that you can think about your book you can dream about your book but until you write one page a day at least it wont happen its too easy to procrastinate. How do you know when you are finished . Your finished. [laughter] he could write one book and seven years i have to write ten. [laughter] you answer. I dont know. You just put the end on it. [laughter] there is some kind of resolution. The problem is if you havent got there yet thats another mistake that writers make we have these silly rules about the dos and donts and one of my rules is dont write the first scene until you know the last scene. John irving he says he writes the last sentence before he writes the first. Im not that smart but i know where im going. When you write certain types of books mystery or suspense he better have the plot and you better know you are going. What time do we finish . I met your son and he is a wonderful young man how do you raise good children this day and age . [laughter] thats very nice of you to say my son went to college almost five years and it aint graduate. He dropped out. [laughter] i tried to raise my kids the same way i was raised there are certain things you have to do there is nothing to debate but just do what is necessary to be respectful and grown person. He is just instinctively kind anyway but i raise my children the way i was raised i was not raise perfect but you have to give your children some discipline and they are supposed to take care of themselves and not make excuses for what they can or cannot do. Im very proud of him. I wish you would finish school. He said is going to. If he is hes going to pay for it now. [laughter] you dont help the kid by giving them too much. To me the New York Times psychobabble all you want to but family love is stronger than anything my son knows i love him and i would like them to finish school if he really wants to then he will find the means to pay for it himself and of course because his father his father will help them that helping them too much as enabling them and thats not healthy. I hope that answered your question. I was nervous. I thought you were talking to me. [laughter] my son is a lawyer that maybe you met him in court. [laughter] he is a very nice young man. And luck plays a role. Most of them survived it seems they didnt fall into that. We were very fortunate. We have a few more minutes. A couple last questions. Did you really tour with Michael Jackson . I was writing for People Magazine so i did as a reporter covering him for six months on the victory tour. 1984. That is when he was really big. Billie jean. That was the tour. I saw quite a bit of him at that time i knew his mother and brother. They didnt like me that much because it was a reporter. Today right bad stuff about michael . So i wrote from the beatles and Rolling Stones cover story so who is this guy James Mcbride so one month later i was on a plane going to l. A. To cover Michael Jackson. I never even been to l. A. Before i ended up staying there and touring six months. Don king, al sharpton, they were all there. Michael was very nice. I really like him. He was a tall person and very decent. I never really felt he did with the accused him of doing with kids. I dont think that was ever tru true. Would you rather write novels or songs . Novels are too hard to grab rather write songs but right now it looks like novels is whats happening. So when you write a song now what are you writing for quicktime 61. I cant write to the bubblegum pop they are doing now. I dont like that. I dont even like that bull crap. [laughter] [applause] really. Im trying to stay out of court again. I was listening to Conway Twitty yesterday. He was super. Wonderful. Thats my job. Thats what i do everything i do is because of you to keep you with me is my job. A beautiful job about fatherhoo fatherhood. I dont care he was a great songwriter they are gone. Sonny rollins . They are not around anymore so i just keep typing away at my novels i guess. Speaking of that what you working on now . I just finished a novel about an old deke on deacon in brooklyn who shoots the worst drug dealer in the projects. Its another comedy. It is supposed to be funny. [laughter] it sounds hilarious. [laughter] im cracking up already. [laughter] 1969. With mayor lindsay when brooklyn was brooklyn now its different. You are still there i run a Small Mission project so its not the same that it was but everything changes that this is brooklyn as i remember it was fun and an expensive with people of different races and ethnicities they got along because they had to go along second just turned it in and waiting for the edit back. You published last year 2017 now this will come out next year . That is a twoyear a gap. Im trying to get like you. [laughter] i hope it wont take more than a month. Im pretty meticulous when i hand the bookends it usually doesnt need a whole lot. But this was difficult i guess because i did it faster . And was looking for Something Different. Its hard to find a different thing a different way in the editor said it was excellent the hes very meticulous well see what he says. With your mom she died 2010 at the age of 88. Born in poland. Married in North Carolina buried in North Carolina next to her first husband. She is the only white purse black person in the cemetery. You mean white. Yes. [laughter] that cemetery was an allblack cemetery. But when my father died his mother bought for plots so my grandparents my father and my mother are buried there. Those were her wishes . She didnt care where she was buried. But i noted the first husband that was her first true love. So i thought it would be prudent. Also the guy who ran the cemetery, a young guy when i started writing the color water. When he first went to see it then later he was still there and still remembered me i said my mother just died. He sounded the cemetery i guess with the poll. We were both older. It was a beautiful moment. He made it happen. She left 11 kids. Easily 25 grandkids. A lot of family at the funeral. For a beautiful lady. I still think about my mother now. One acm mother in the street with her kids or a jewish lady about the cost of an orange i think of my mother. [laughter] give it to me ill pay for it myself. [laughter] thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]. Offers his thoughts on the differences between 20th century socialism and socialist today and argues that it must be stopped. He is interviewed by author and independent Institute Senior fellow benjamin powell. After words is a program with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest works. No after words programs are also available as podcasts. Host five years ago it would be hard to imagine a book called United States of socialism being published but a ha