Winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. She is the author of seven books and is appeared on cspan and book tv over 60 times. She is well known for her work on Abraham Lincoln and her book team of rivals with the inspiration for Stephen Spear spielberg film. She earned her phd at harvard, we will reair her indepth appearance where she discussed her entire body of work and took your phone calls. We will show you discussions from her book leadership in Turbulent Times and bully pulpit. We will start with january 1, 1995 appearance on the cspan series book notes. In the hourlong interview she discussed frank gooden Eleanor Roosevelt and the homefront during world war ii, her book, no ordinary time one the posted price for ordinary history here is historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. Author of no ordinary time, if you could ask either Frank FranklinElinor Roosevelt a couple questions after all the work he did on the book, what would it be. With eleanor i would like to understand why she was unable at a certain moment in the war when he asked her to be his wife again and stop traveling and stay home and take care of him to say yes to him. I know that he loved hi her andi want to say why did he do he couldve died soon why did he do it. I think for him why he would want to understand why he couldnt stand his self more, he was the most prickly personality and everybody got how warm he was, there such a reserve and i want to understand and give more to the people that loved him. What makes this book different than all the rest. I think what i wanted to do in this book is not only understand the relationship which was looked at many cases but to understand the whole extended family that surrounded them in the white house and they came to an understanding that the two characters needed other people to make the unintended needs that were left over other troubled marriage. What i came upon the sense that the second family quarters were like a Residential Hotel in about seven People Living there in intimate friends, that was a part that was new and fun for me. If you had to ask a question about personal relationships that they had with other people, who would be most interested. The person i most interested in is everybody who assumes the romantic figure in his life because he had an affair in 1918 and almost broke up eleanors marriage. There is another woman i think had even more central to play in his life and that was his secretary. She started working for him when he was only 20 years old in 1920 and she left in the rest of her life and she never married. Everybody in washington knew she was his other wife. When eleanor traveled 200 250 days a year, she was the one that took care of roosevelt and if she had a cold she would bring in the cough medicine to the white house and if you were grumpy she would arrange a poker game at night, she had a cocktail hour every night and was the hostess. She was on a daily basis the person closest him. You right in the book, the scenario, will get a closer shot on some of these names. Why did you put this in the book. It seemed to me what he would get from reading the book, a sense of what it was like 50 years ago to be in the white house and because each of these rooms are occupied by somebody who is very important in franklin eleanor and their closest friends and romantic friends, i wanted everybody to see how close they were and they can Wander Around and not talk to each other. This was 1940 1945. As you can see on one end you have Elinor Roosevelts bedroom and across the hall is Lorena Hickok, who is lorena and what was their relationship read this is the second for the white house. She had been a former reporter for the Associated Press and in fact 1983 she was the leading female reporter in the country, she weighed 200 pounds, smoke cigars, play poker with the guys and was really smart, what happened she came in in the campaign and 32 and she became really close friends. She fell in love with eleanor and more importantly she probably helped her become activist first lady that she d did, it was lorena who came up with the idea that they were Holding Press Conferences every week and the only female reporters can come, hold generation of female journalists got their start because every newspaper had to hire a fema reporter. She gave collins that eleanor wrote every day that her husband died and write eleanor transform the role of the first lady from a ceremonial to an activist one. In the course of that she fell in love with eleanor. I dont think she fully reciprocated it but they were close enough and she wanted their living nearby. She lived in the white house the entire time during the war. On the second floor you have a room in which Terry Hopkins lived in, how long did he live in there and who was he. He was a roosevelt chief during the 1930s and the head of the Works Progress of administration, even a social worker. When the war broke out in europe in the may of 1940, he was staying overnight in the white house and roosevelt decided he wanted him near by any needed somebody could talk to first thing in the morning and late at night, he made the chief advisor on Foreign Policy and he wanted to see Church Health before roosevelt met him and stalin and it was unprecedented. He makes kinzinger look like a mildmannered guy in terms of power that hopkins had. He was incredibly loyal to the roosevelt. He was there from 1940 1942 when he got married and roosevelt was sad when he stayed there for six months with his new wife but she finally wanted a house of her own. This is another bedroom, mr. Churchill. That is roosevelt mother. And martha. Thats an interesting room, whenever the mother came she wanted the guest bedroom suite and that was the suite. She would come to visit once a month with her maids and servants and always being a duchess in the white house. And she had come to washington through the war years and her husband was a crown prince and her fatherinlaw was a king in norway and hes currently the king of norway now. She was longawaited both of her brothers like them tall, she had a gay spirited conversation that he enjoyed and eleanor understood that he needed that kind of companionship and she would visit on weekends and keeping company in the movies and at dinners at night and eleanor was away and this would be her suite. When churchill came no one else stayed. Churchill was an incredible character during this period of time, he would come and stay three or four weeks at a time and his habits were so exhausting that nobody else could sleep during the period of time, he was awakened in the morning and have wine for breakfast and scotch and soda for lunch and brandy at night smoking his cigar still 2 00 p. M. , when he would finally leave, the entire white house staff would have to sleep, in order to recuperate from churchills visit. You mentioned the relationship between princess mark the norway and fdr was romantic. Some of the people that lived in the white house at that time suggested he was his girlfriend, i suspect thats what the element of the relationship was, was not he was working or a political partner or companion it was a flirtatious relationship whether what beyond kissing and romance in just a sense of pleasure, i do not know but it certainly was not. Anna stayed in one of the rooms on the second floor, she is there in the middle next her father, what was their relationship. Why happened its interesting and some of the most moving moments. She had originally been her mothers daughter and when anna was a young girl and ella lessons, anna told her some the story that her father had to go with lucy long ago and her mother took her side and the two are grown so close that they wrote each of the letters to her three times a week and they saw each other for five times a year even when anna live on the other coast. In many of the war after eleanor rejected franklin to stay home and be his wife again, he got so lonely that he asked their daughter anna and by that point she was only in early 40s and had a stroke and she can never speak again. It was a devastating thing for roosevelt and because he was so lonely in his mother died, he asked anna to come and stay in the white house and then what happened in some way she became his father daughter, she had long legs, she was tall, she loved cocktails and she should gossip at night, all the things eleanor never found easy to do and it did. After a while she was feeling displaced by her own daughter. It was a complicated set of relationships during this time. Where you live right on main street where it all began. Why congress. I think it was a compromise i love the city and grout side of new york. My husband prefers to live in maine. You are not the country that he could feel he was really living outside of the suburb, more country than suburb. His name is richard and he is a writer also and just recently he was involved in the scandal because his first job after cooking was investigate. Hes having a good time right now, being portrayed as a 27yearold actor and feeling like decades dropped off his life. But mostly hes a writer. Where did you meet him. I was teaching a harvard and solid course on the presidency and taught American Government and he came to finish his book and had the office at the Kennedy Institute and he had a office next to mine. You dedicate the book to three people. Three sons the most important people my life, one is in his mid20s and one is a freshman at the college and the youngest one is still at home in high school. I do not wanted to end, i wish they were four, six and eight again. How many books. Three. The first one was Lyndon Johnson and the american dream, that came out of the experience that i wrot i will forever trea, hobby being 2324 years old and working for president johnson the white house and helping him with his memoirs. I still keeping thinking he still around. How can you do that. That was the first book in a great experience to understand a man that i found so sad in his retirement when he was at the ranch it almost like he had nothing else left in his life once politics was taken. That experience has been in my mind forever. The second was a fitzgerald to the kennedys in a pregeneration history of the Kennedy Family. Partly made possible by the fact that i was giving access the had been in the attic over 50 years, my husband had been on the white house staff of john kennedy, we move the Kennedy Family. That is why one of his books means so much, the first time ive had to use an ordinary historian without the advantage of knowing Lyndon Johnson or the Kennedy Family. Is a new information in the book . By choosing this period of time and focusing on the American Home front rather than the battlefront, theres thousands of books that have been written about world war ii, very few focused on what happened at home and mostly have been ethic books like a chapter on civil rights and the japanese incarceration camps and the women in the factories. Theres very little evidence of trying to understand roosevelts leadership and how he mobilized the democracy and i think thats a greatest contribution in a certain sense, more of the strategy having got a country to produce the reference. Thats what when the war and turning it around as a peace economy in isolation and still in the midst of a depression, making itself adoptive. Where did you find the wha we house ushers diary. This is my incredible tool, anybody there to see. In the roosevelt library, they are on microfiche, the end of the day the white house usher who would record everything that is happened during the day, and the waking at seven, massage 715 and then who you had lunch with and dinner and then you could use that as a foundation, suppose we had lunch with henry, i know they had diaries i go to the diaries to find out what he talked about at lunch or they would record the eleanor was with joe and i know he had a diary, it was like the detective tool that was there for anybody to see but they had not been used before, it was so easy and wonderful. Harold dickies was a secretary whose son was in mr. Clintons white house staff and he was called gold crunch enough the time. Henry was the secretary of the treasury and he is a subject of one of my favorite stories in the book because roosevelt had an annual poker game every year end it would always be held on the day that the congress was going to adjourn and whoever was ahead of the moment the speaker of the house called adjourned woodwind, one particular night he was way ahead when the speaker called to tell roosevelt he was a journey not 930 and he pretended somebody else saying i cant talk im in the middle of a poker game, finally at midnight roosevelt wins any hands the phone to me and he says mr. Speaker your journey, roosevelt wins the game, total manipulation, everything is great until the next morning when he saw in the newspaper the congress adjourned at 930 and he was angry he resigned at secretary of the treasury and said seans getting back into it. There was i remember somebody else resigning at one time and fdr wrote of a letter and he said he resigned several times, he would get upset about policy issues and resign so roosevelt wrote him a very gracious letter saying you cannot resign, i need you youre so important and youre absolutely right. When i wrote your letter, they did talk that way and that was an all in some ways for the man that was still there president. Isidro letter that is gratefully replied in itself watery. Have you write about me like you did with that accolade to my spirit. He goes on, how did you go about this, where did you work. I worked in terms of research and the wonderful thing that is in new york as it makes you feel like youre going back in time because the place were house roosevelt was born in eleanors cottage, it looked exactly as it looked when they were there but sometimes when youre in the middle of the working and you take a walk around the environment, you can feel like youre back 50 years in time, it was wonderful and little motels around the area and you stay across the library and you feel like this is what a scholar is supposed to be doing and where they live themselves. Where is the library. It is in hyde park new york, it was about three and half hour drive, a beautiful drive in the hudson river far below, the house where roosevelt was born since a few feet from the library with a Beautiful House down to the hudson river. You are surrounded by beauty why youre doing the oldfashioned research. You mentions alcoa, what is that. That is the cottage that roosevelt built for eleanor and the cottage was 22 rooms it was not a small cottage. But what happened in the 1920s after his affair and they decided to Stay Together it gave eleanor the freedom to go outside the marriage to find fulfillment and she became involved with women who were activists, voters fighting for reform in child labor laws and franklins mother always look at these women that would come into the house with the battle shoes on and they were not the fancy people that she was used too so eleanor did not feel comfortable bringing her political friends to the big house where franklin and sarah lived. I want to show the picture of mrs. Roosevelt, the mother in the middle. When franklin went to harvard he got a townhouse in boston and when franklin and eleanor got married there were two townhouses in new york one for her and one for them, doris went riding in between. Roosevelt seen helen comfortable and having her friends in the big house suggested he would build her her own cottage it turned out to be a beautiful 22 room house a mile and a half or so from the big house and allowed eleanor to have the home of her own but after she died he lived there. Somebody has never been to that part of the country. How far from new york city . A couple hours from new york city. Along the hudson. And dutchess county. In those years in the war years that youre writing about domestically, where did Franklin Delano roosevelt spend the time beside the white house in hyde park. Hyde park was most important, he went during the whole president about 200 times the hyde park, that is the most important. How would he get there. Training, in washington at ten or 11 at night and it would reach hyde park by the morning he would go to sleep on the plane, he loved traveling by train he had his own compartment and because of paralysis he did not like staff moving but he could feel grounded on the train. Eleanor was the opposite she like to get places fast so she did not travel by train but she would go as well. What year did he die. 1945. To remember the exact date. April 12. What your duty contract polio and have billed legs and arms. When he was like 37 years old he contracted polio. One of the things i understood more by doing this book and how much the paralysis was a part of his everyday life. I like so many in the country had a saying that he conquered and he was left a bit laying. But he was a full paraplegic, he could not get out of bed in the morning without turning his body to the side of the better being helped in the wheelchair to get to the bathroom. He cannot walk had six braces on and feeling john the arm of two strong people he could appear to be maneuvering forward. It was an extraordinary moment when i was doing research, a interviewed betsy who is married to Jimmy Roosevelt and she said she asked him once in the middle of the war, how do you fall asleep with the burdens that you have to face. I knew polio was a huge part of his imagination because he described his own method of counting sheep and he would imagine he was a young boy and the favorite hill behind his house which life of the hudson river fall below. And the president he would imagine hes a young boy getting on the slide and sending every curve and when we got this led to the bottom he would run to the top and go over and over again until he would fall asleep. The most powerful man in the world he is imagining when he falls asleep in getting solid by thinking he can run, slide, walk again. The very things that we denied him at 37 years old. We need to get to lucy, i wrote her question down somewhere here. You talked about when he would go to washington to hyde park he would figure it out to stop and see her in new jersey. She had an estate here and he loved to figure out maps and all geography so the Railroad Line if he went on a different pattern and had to convince the secret service that he could spend the afternoon with lucy. This is not until the last year of his life. Some people had a saying myself included that he wouldve known lucy all his life i knew about it in 1918 and he was seeing her when he was died so i thought maybe you habit to the period of time but the truth was he kept his pledge, not to see you again until the last year of his life after he had refused to be with him to be his wife again and after ina came back to the white house and he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. I knew in the last year he was dying and he went to the plantation and to recover and it was there that he saw her for the First Time Since 1918 and she had just lost her husband and come from the old family and i believe when he saw her then what it did was to awaken in him a memory of what it was like when he was young before the polio and not only three years before his polio but now his heart was giving away and he decided he wanted to see her regularly. How did they start the original. She was a social secretary working for eleanor and he was the second of the navy and eleanor moved to washington in 1914 and eleanor felt worried about the whole circle of invitation because you know which one you could go to and so she hired a young woman who came from a blueblood family in washington and needed money because her father was an alcoholic. Lucy came three or four days a week and worked in some where during the period of time between 1914 and 1918 the relationship developed between lucy and franklin. As far as we know it was two or three years in the period of time between 14 and 18 they came to an abrupt end were eleanor came acros upon a pocket of love letters that she wrote to franklin she said when she open the letters, the bottom fell out of her world and she offered franklin a divorce immediately. Im convinced it was the last thing that he wanted he never one for the marriage to be over and in some ways i think her attraction unless she was confident, gay, easy, what was eleanor doing is still hard by the insecurities of her own childhood. Her father was an alcoholic in the motherinlaw was being so intrusive about the kids and it was hard to developable sense of herself. And when confronted, it was the last thing that he wanted. Back in those days, what did the public know, did they know about polio and the abrasions on his legs, do they know about mercer and Princess Martha of norway. This is one of the most interesting things. Certain members of the press knew about lucy mercer and then a handle in the white house in unconventional set of relationships and they certainly knew relative outlook is a purple leader. There was no signs of sense that he has in his private life, whatever he has with the public activity i told porter, who are we to judge, we are not angels ourselves so would not be supporting to report on the conventional relationship in the white house and as far as the paralysis, what astonished me is a majority of the people thought he was laying, the recent there were able to fill them, on his belt being crippled, is a second part and the president did not want to be seen that way, they young for photographer with a sixyear of the president , he can be carried into a car like a bully like a child. An older guy was not the pure mid of the ground. There was a dignity to the office of the presidency and i think its really missing right now, both sides of the press and the president wrote about the importance of having the private life secured, you never wouldve thought about his feelings about losing mercer. There was a merge that signed a better that time. You talk about volumes of mrs. Roosevelt daily column, did she write herself . Absolutely. If you read them the only way that it was possible for her to write the column was a recording of what she did during the day and the only reason it worked, there is not high thought or great moment of issue but it was so warm and it was full of activity in her schedules more ordinary, if you look at the diary it was her daily life three times as long as roosevelt. She never stopped to travel to camps, minds and the famous cartoons of the miners looking up, she went to visit blacks in the south and cdc camps, that traveling gave her experiences that she could with count and tell people what she was thinking and feeling as she met so Many Americans in the collection of her trial. What would happen if he moved into modernday american, column every day, radio show, handicap affairs and all of that. It is scary to think about. If eleanor had not been allowed the network of friendship in the white house and allowed them to sustain while theyre going to the difficulties of the depression and the war, they would not have been as strong as leaders as they were. Roosevelt needed the relaxation and missy could provide an suppose the press was saying who is this woman, shes a secretary in love with him and at one point missy had been involved with terry. How are you living there, is harry involved. If we had not had the space for the private lives they would not have been replenished as political leaders. The paralysis is more interesting, you almost wish that they had the courage to go to the public and say to the public im crippled and its okay because they loved him so much because of his courage and strength but only at the very end of his life did he ever give a speech sitting down when he came back he was so tired that he excused himself instead of standing and for some reason that speech made it impact on the country because they saw he was conquering the disability. At that time nobody thought you could go to your country and tell them you are paraplegic. They would not allow you to be there president. During the last president ial year, he was only down the three or four times. Prior to the war he went down everything skipping, he had an annual dinner for the patients that he created Rehabilitation Center in the 1920s. He went down there because the hot springs and came out of the ground naturally in the area were thought to help people with polio, he created a whole Region Center and a lot of patience would be down there and is contagious confidence help them to get their own polio. That was a pledge that he had made. Have you been to all these places . What is so amazing its a primitive setting, you look at the little white house which is why they call them house that roosevelt would stay. His bedroom has been the size of a small boys bedroom and one other bedroom with hand wipes and you keep thinking about a much more luscious surrounding, but he loves the simplicity. And it tells you a lot to think about it. Campo below was a place that was his mothers estate when he was a young boy and its off the border of maine in canada. With the beautiful summer home which is part of eleanor and franklins romantic days but also the place where he got polio. So they did not really travel there much longer after the early years, they went in the teens in the early 1920s but after he got polio, his wife would go up there but she loved it but he did not go back after that. What impact did have on the news as an only child. Critical impact. He was not only an only child, his father was sickly from the time he is young and his mother was young and you can never have other children because it wouldve been a tough birth. But all of her love which was large got focus on the child and i think about it, i think she gave him the greatest asset you can give a child in the unconditional love. Because it was so important she could never feel like he could stand apart, she hovered over him all her life and thats the source of his confidence. One of my favorite quotes. I think she created the sand her son had such confidence and sparkle that it was like opening your first bottle of champagne to be around him. Thats a great gift the mother gives her child. It was your time with intimacy with other people. As you go to the residents in the two big chairs by the fireplace one is mark and sarah and one is mark franklin, no chair for eleanor. If you go through in they just send it to you like its natural. Then you say word is out for purring and you say you owe she found a chance. And i love that its one in as the host. That big house at hyde park was a mistress of the house perhaps all throughout their married life, even after she died there is a sad moment where eleanor wants to change the house around to make her house now that her motherinlaw is dead. And he cannot bear the thought of making changes in her boy home. This is a little map but will get a closer shot but it shows the bedrooms on the second flo floor, franklin delaware roosevelt and ellens, thats where his mother stayed, how often were they all there together. Sarah would always be there. What is astonishing to look at as a relative size of the bedroom and its very large in basis and uc series that is large and spaces and eleanor has a single bed and what must be the dressing room, thats a part of eleanor that you have to not take that small of her room and there was a partner that was a merger and like to have tough conditions to live up to it because she had been used to those as a child. I found that very sad. Harry died at age 55, i wrote this down when i was going through your book. Thompson. Ashley Princess Martha died at 53 . Loretta hitchcock died at 65. Anna died at 64615. Shes pretty young to. How come. Hopkins just to start with him, when he was at the end of the new deal. , he was diagnosed with cancer of the stomach and had almost his entire stomach removed but somehow public life in Public Service gave him an extra lease on life and when roosevelt made him his foreignpolicy he was able to get through what most people wouldve died he was so sick and he looked like he was dying and his body was beaming away. And there was no longer room for him in public life, he himself finally died, rachel said he was full of fire and energy that kept them alive but his body was giving away. To understand what happened a princess, she had had illnesses during her 40s and she died relatively young in her 50s and so did lucy, tuberculosis spread and it seemed really strange especially now as we get older you see people younger dying and i wouldve thought that when i was older. Fdr was 63. How old was Eleanor Roosevelt. 1882 1961. Shes at 70 something or other. She left her for an extra years going on picking. How many kids were there . Thats not a happy story, there were five children, a daughter anna was the oldest and they had four sons. Jimmy, elliott, john and franklin. I think will happen, it was the five of them to grow up in the shadow of the giant oak of their parents. In the five children had a combination of 18 marriages between them. They have a hard time to becoming people in their own rights and wanted to skip stock and is become important in as we often see happening they never got their own confidence. As part of the cold story. Anna married twice, her second husband jumps out of the hotel in new york city. He was depressed and what others sedation for his psychological illness, their dirty separated and he was always trouble, you can see their marriage ruth robie took in your the most precious and he was clinging in an unnatural way. Her will husband no longer have the platform in the presidency to stand on. He cannot kiss me but he got society will got jumped out of the window and interviewed himself. I talked to all three and there is eleanors oldest daughter increase whose its a second child. John, he died at age 65, the son of fdr he had to marriages but died a republican. He was the only one that became a republican he became a republican early in his life much to the dismay of his family. He died at 74 married for time. What was he like. He had his fathers charm. Luckily that people know him said the personality all over again, he did have some success in politics and that was very john kennedy in West Virginia and roosevelt was in nickname. My friend fdr junior came down for kennedy and it was one thing at the time. I was married five times. Died at the age 1880 and 1890. I got a chance to talk to him before he died, the twinkle in the blue eyes that gave you a memory of frank lynn roosevelt, he had had a tough time finding himself in alcoholism on his family that had visited thoughts upon elliott and a little bit success in politics and the mayor and palm beach but mayo my he wrote mystery stories were eleanor was the detective, there was dead body and eleanor and his mother become a detective. There is a series of tellall books about the family. All the other kids find. I wonder what he wouldve thought, he had four marriages two. He has some success as a congressman for some time but he was never to able to hold onto his career or family. Its not been an easy time as a set for any of the children. Would you mind jumping to the end and tell me what you can remember about the last couple of days of fdr. What happened after he came back from the conference and after he gave the major speech to the congress in march of 1945, everybody could see. When he wants to go to warm springs georgia, there was a sense he would recuperate by going down in the air and the beauty and the simplicity, an extended trip to started the end of march, you want down to one thing. It did seem you brought characters, they kept him company and he did not have that much work to do when hes down there. For the first week or so it sounds like you might be getting his bounce back and wait and in the last year. Its at a certain point he invited nursing. And right across the way there is white house and the painter phlegm who i could probably do he takes a little driving trips with lucy and you can see the whole valley from that flight. You never forget the day when you talk to her about all the plans he had after the presidency in the ideas about what it is left in the work itself, on a certain morning in april 12 people thought he looked better for weeks, his color was radiant, probably as it was as doctor said the embolism but killed him and you train to be himself and his skin and his coloring. Nevertheless had people comfortable and talking to lucy, i hope about noon or so on april 12 i had a terrific headache and he slumped forward. One of the cousins went over to him thinking he had dropped his cigarette or something and then she realized he had become unconscious. They call for doctors and heal health. They did leave and will happen he died about an hour and half later, he never regained consciousness and he finally told eleanor and she was in the middle of giving a speech when she found out and she knew the minute the phone ring that something happened, she could feel it in they did not say he died they said you have to come back to the white house immediately. They called her away, the first giving of speech and somebody was doing to piano. She has a mean present and said i must leave now but ill be back to see a preacher went to the white house and they told her that she had died. She immediately called for harry truman to come so she could give the news to harry truman, not a celebrated moment in history were truman says is there anything i can do in her responses no but if theres anything i can do for you, youre the one in trouble now. And she has the heart to ask about see her husbands body. Enter run from your body with anybody asking. When she gets to warm springs georgia and if she would do one like this and ask in particular, tell him everything the top of the last 24 hours. I believe that laura loved fdr, she menaced unterman and pelosi. She just said she wouldve found out anyway. She elected to kill her and anna her daughter had been the one to make the. I cannot imagine what it wouldve been like to present of strong faith by getting in the train and going back. Knowing inside what she felt, when she got to the white house anna was there and all that she could say as a mother confronted her, how could you do this to me and all she said was i did not know what to do, i love you both and i was caught in a crossfire, and a leisurely said she brought the relationship. Even though a death is a natural place. I felt so sad with the emotions. I decided to follow the story through the summer in the fall of 45 and i was able to find if in the country that summer that people kept telling her how much they love their husbands. People that she thought were her people, the perpupil, taxi drivers, stop that their lives are so much better off at the end of the world and we wanted the work to be a vehicle for reform on civil rights and you should keep 20 more than he can provide. For a reconciliation so as the biographer im not sure that something i could have done that i have that spirit. But it was so wonderful that she did because the rest of her life those next 17 years instead of harboring she loved him even more than in life and could incorporate all the strengths and to herself. She was always idealistic and he was practical. And now somehow she was more like him at a much better politician now she had to be th the. Was an amazing and to the story that if you look at it from the outside as the media were do today they may accuse him of infidelity or harassment with his secretary may be accuse hannah of the betrayal of her mother but none of those are right i am convinced they never meant to hurt one another they were trying to get through their lives with love and respect and it seems to me the challenge isnt to expose and label the what i wanted to try to do was to extend empathy to understand why they need all these relationships and not judge harshly because of their own human need. You have some references to the fact that she went in to stand by his body and wanted moments by herself and then the ushers kept everybody out. One of the ushers at the white house was there when she asked him to close the door was inside the room and he will in the memoir he saw that she open the casket one last time so she could say goodbye privately and he was standing there and wrote that in the memoir and people at warm springs everybody kept a diary during that period of time knowing it would be important for her history. You wrote a letter one included a letter row between anna and lucy. The son of anna had written a wonderful little book and not the first time i had ever seen a letter published. What so wonderful after fdr died and i was so bereft at some point she called lucy may be three or four weeks she writes back fabulous letter because she was also feeling out of it here is a man she had loved and she cannot even express publicly or openly about their relationship she was not part of the funeral but in that letter she says i want you to know how much her father loved you and how many times fdr had talked to lucy how much he loved his daughter so that was so important that annas daughter told me that she kept that letter in her bedside table the rest of her life to confirm her not feeling too guilty about lucy being with her father. Did you get emotional yourself . Absolutely but you live with these characters for six years it took me longer to work on the book. Would talk to franklin and eleanor as if they were still alive. You feel their presence and when bad things happen and they hurt one another you feel it. Where did you write it . Mostly at home i have a study on the second floor with him on the main street in concorde i had pictures of the war and rosie the riveter so the ambience felt like world war ii i got all the books i could fin find. I love libraries but in this case they wanted to have the books so i want to every used bookstore so every room was filled with world war ii book. How do you write . Longhand im so primitive i cannot think on the typewriter. Ive never been able to but i write in longhand and then i copy it over so a typist can read the writing and thats when i edit and then type it on my computer and give it back to me and then i dont look at it until the full first draft is done then at the very end when i really have to edit it we put on my husbands computer he taught me how to edit im not sure i can write on it but at least i learned how to edit. What time of day . I start early in the morning we both get up early for some reason he wakes at 5 30 a. M. So i get up and have breakfast sometimes we work out and then we both start working early even before the kids go to school at 7 00 oclock and then work until the middle of the afternoon and then play tennis or errands. Has with the same line of business you can take breaks together. You said it took six years for research how long did it take to write . Four of those were research and to were writing. Even in the last few years you come upon something if you dont know the answer you have to go back to hyde park i was still there within weeks of finishing the book. Your favorite thing . The discovery that eleanor and franklin still loved each other because conventional wisdom among historians the marriage was a pure Political Partnership and i was happy to discover even though they still heard each other they had yearnings and i felt like i wanted to push them together because i could feel the love between them. I was glad to find that out. You are the book on johnson. What about jfk . I met him once as a young girl i knew the family well. With the closest you got to roosevelt . I never saw franklin or eleanor personally the closest were there two cents before they died and then the children of those children were very helpfu helpful. Of the three books in all the thinking about these politicians who is your favorite . I will always be most grateful to Lyndon Johnson but not for the reason that you might think. Watching him the last years of his life on his ranch helping him with his memoirs was an experience to see a man who had no other resources than politics he did not know how to get to the day he had mocked meanings to figure out what to do throughout the day which cow was given the itch medicine what tractors he had to have meetings like they were in the white house at night he cannot go to sleep until he knew how many people were coming to the library he went to my people go through their then kennedy. Free donuts or coffee or anything but a man who was so sad he couldnt be alone. He asked me to stay outside his room to take a nap 23 years old you think the most exciting thing is to become president of the United States that he had not balanced that success with family or love or friendship it left him so bereft at the end the impact i realize success at that price is not worth it then not long after watching him die i got married and had children that which it took me so long to write the books i wanted to be with these kids when they were little i didnt want to be like johnson at the end of my life so no question that had such an impact when carter was president he asked me to be the head of the peace corps i would have loved to do it at so many times on another time please remember Lyndon Johnson i dont even feel sad because they knew the kids would grow quickly and i didnt want to end up that way nothing would ever compete with that. Were reborn . Rockville center. My family came from brooklyn and then moved up to long island my real love of history started with baseball my father taught me when i was seven that i would recreate the game when he came home from work the brooklyn dodgers and i thought maybe he never knew what happened he never told me the scores were in the newspaper the next day and i was so proud of what i was doing. Cspan college quick. It went in maine then Harvard Graduate School with a phd in government. My thesis constitutional law actually overturning the Supreme Court decision on prayer in schools and one man one vote decision and in both cases the amendment failed. Cspan we write another book . Sure what else what i do . We will work on about together with my husband member carter said the biggest mistake he said was working on a book with his wife nails got divorce but we will may do a book on president ial decisions taking 15 decisions each well illustrated different power of the presidency and each will be told as a story as a dramatic moment so young person reading it i can college will get a history of the presidency but through these great decisions. Cspan what your kids think . We bed home so much when we work they havent really seen the end result until now as teenagers they see a book out and their father and one said you are a stallion again with that sense of pride. [laughter] it isnt like a career where they are confronting daily with their parents are. We been quiet and at home. People are much more aware because i do local content one commentary and a Weekly Television show on the streets people know me from that that the kids are crazy about getting stopped but as far as writing goes its fabulous combining with family life or your home almost all the time. Cspan going to fdr home and you see a library and then a couple of miles away where roosevelt spent her time what was your thought with him there and she at the other place . And also how different they are the big house is so perfectly put together all the china matches and the furniture matches eleanor was all mismatched so everybody would be comfortable. You know how opposite their temperaments were she like to make people feel at ease then he liked the elegance. In some ways they were never meant for each other but think god they attracted when they were young and had enough to keep them going to the long marriage. Cspan what about the relationship between the women friends . Anything is mostly relationship or eleanor was loved by Lorena Hickok she felt the center somebody elses life. Some people claimed maybe she was a lesbian. I dont think thats necessarily true but this woman loved her and helped her to become a better first lady. Historians dont know if they went beyond xoxox people try to appropriate eleanor bedding should be the first person she came back today she was considered a lesbian that she would be the first to say thats fine but i dont think she would have defined herself that way. Coronary conscience the warriors on the home front with fdr and eleanor now here you have Doris Kearns Goodwin. Thank you. Youre welcome 1191 books in print on Abraham Lincoln more than Kennedy Roosevelt and reagan combined. Why the latest . I just had to have a leap of faith i could find something to be my own way but the last one and took six years longer than world war ii and would be a big part of my life and he turned out to be the best companion i could have imagined. With the process . Back at first its just reading and reading and i hope that the beginning but i realize she could not hold the public side the way eleanor did so i started to read more and more and spending even more time with members of the cabinet in such a tense time waiting for news from the battlefield they relax together at night that they are interested in i finally realized i got my story. The book that came out more than 50 years ago what is different from that book. It wasnt primary sources but secoy iwasnt primary sours but secondary sources there is a lot of good stuff but he had one huge chapter minus that narrative from the beginning to the end. You are now dealing with 19th century figures how do you go about the research process. Even in the roosevelt time there were three dozen people who knew him and met johnson i could spend hours so how do i go back to it. When i cant talk to anyone . Its an even more intimate source 200 years from now we will not know about us even stuarts family 5000 letters between them you feel like you are right over their shoulders. You say lincoln say word was member of a restless generation destined to leave behind their fathers thousand separate their birthplace nonetheless those forces shape the path to mark a number of similarities. House so . The american experiment and democracy was new so heres the next generation coming along so its not surprising these characters entered political life if there was a talk or debate 10000 people might come in a say politics back then sparked for us today. Thats what shaped all of them now wanted to become lawyers and politicians because that is where the passion was. Why were these a running mate . Because once they got there in the convention decided it was lincoln and then they are looking for balance and they probably knew they would not be willing to accept the vice presidency. It was a very powerful those days they said we will wait impeach him the next time aroun around. Say word is my favorite he could drink and smoke with parties and has house there is so much wine even southerners would feel good about the northerners and hes the one the most celebrated name people came to his house waiting for the news he had been nominated champagne was already uncorked and then to appoint him secretary of state he that lincoln would be a figurehead but in the end they became great friends once he realized he was a special character and their friendship is most exciting part of this for me. Next very religious character he would practice josie couldnt deliver kept a diary from the time he was 20 and very selfrighteous character but an honorable person and wanted to be president so much even when lincoln made him secretary of treasury he still kept running against lincoln and to win the Second Time Around that lincoln bested him. Banks was an elder statesman and people thought he was more conservative coming from a border state but a young man very interested in politics but then he got married to this woman he loves so much and cannot bear being away from her. I miss you they had 17 children he cannot walk away from her for too long. [laughter] then they barely mentioned if a wife a family that even chase lost three young lives at 22 and 25 and 30 and his daughter becomes his life and Campaign Manager and partner just to further the ambitions and then died in poverty. I love the stories. Lived on nine lived to adulthood. You say you dedicate this book to your husband. Ill more than i could ever express to whom the book is dedicated. I argued with him. What about . Whether lincoln was doing the right thing. He is a huge lincoln fan and i was trying to be critical he said what you saying i would say this is wrong and this is right. We work at home we are each in a separate section of the house and it was fantastic. I would give him pages as i finish them. He thought as deeply as anyone. Did he inspire you or did you come up with the idea . I think i came up with the idea once i came up to it my husband was a speechwriter for kennedy and johnson so he understands the value of words in public life. Who came up with the title . That was a problem. We wanted to call it lesser among men but he was a great emancipator it seem like that could be a worrisome word with the word master. I thought political genius would be the subtitle and we called it the great unifier its always been a working titles we just went to back to what it was team of rivals. The next conversation for the next three years Doris Kearns Goodwin we welcome phone calls. In your last conversation with johnson you talked about lincoln. Yes. He was reading a biography on lincoln trying to bring him to life and couldnt quite do it and said if he could bring lincoln to life in his mind nobody was going to remember him. He was so haunted the last years of history would remember him and now i realize more than i did what a privilege it was joe spent so many hours with this man he had so many conquest when so much a civilrights way it felt in the end his career was destroyed by the war in vietnam. I had those hours with him. That is what propelled me to want to understand the public figure. When was this taken . Back selected as the white house fellow. Thats false hair but that was a celebration. I did dance with president johnson one selected but i was a graduate student in like many young people active i had wrote an article that came out after being selected in the article was how to get rid of johnson i was sure i was kicked out of the program he said bring her down for a year if i cant win her over no one can. s we ended up working with him and helping him on the memoir. You said of course they do i know whats goes on up there and they cant dance like i dance with you right now. He also had weird habit to stand closer to human beings so i felt i was stuck and he nearly picked me up off the floor when we danced. Cspan first call ohio good morning. Caller i just purchased the book two days ago. A huge fan of lincoln. My question is lincolns ability to reach out to his political rivals and incorporate into a larger scheme, can you comment on that happening now . Thats a great question. It would be much harder now because we have a Permanent Campaign hes already thinking of the second terminated lincolns day those had a single term so today i think they are worried about giving a platform for their arrival to be used against them. These are all rivals of one another so they said terrible things about one another and they werent talking to postmaster blair. Can you imagine what would happen tonight the guys in the cabinet say these things about each other . Unless you had lincoln to hold it together. I wish it was possible. With all the different aspects of the Republican Party all together in the same tent so it was easier to deal with them because they were outside. Cspan Washington Post says its comparable to george w. Bush is defense secretary. Exactly knowing he was getting a platform the first time around. It might have been a great thing if people oppose you and argue and debate you and maybe you hone your skills and can deal with the country and dont worry about the next election. Cspan kansas city missouri. Caller thank you for taking my call. Is there any Historical Documents how lincoln dealt with the savagery that happened as a byproduct from the southerners did lincoln do anything at all to stop it . What was his feeling about that rivalry . That is what was very hard for lincoln. At some point they decided the only way to work with the southern capacity was destroyed and to destroy the crops and cotton sold and i suspect for lincolns conversations is much as he was a terrible bribe byproduct of were it would keep going on and on and more people would die if he did not do that. Cspan what role did you have to write this book . I was one of the series who helped him with his memoirs and a chapter of his relationship with congress. Went down to the ranch and stayed while i was teaching at harvard just to listen to him recollect is a great storytelle storyteller. Not just the Vantage Point but his childhood because he was originally going to write a trilogy so a lot of the conversations would range of his whole life that used to be so colorful even though it wasnt true. Thats why he liked me there. Is that i wonder how she does to the memoirs to feel upon the publication to be listed as one of a dozen people who aided in Preparation Research writing and editing. There were far more important people working on mmr than i was they were doing it full time i was doing it parttime and i only worked on those two chapters so he talked to me and you put down what he said and put it in a form. I thought that was more than enough. For millions of americans a naked man with no president ial covering a pretender to the throne my home of the murder. You can only imagine what it must have been like for him to know the country love kennedy so much because it took place in texas and what was amazing even with all the pressure on him it was an extraordinary transition if he only had got into vietnam he will be remembered as a great president. Cspan michigan go ahead. Caller you are my hero. I dropped out of school, professor, and then they went back and i started to study history. At Community College the more i learn the more i warmed up to it. So what gets me is how historians can look at something and defer with their interpretation just like an economist. So to ask how do historians go about gathering evidence . It seems like he had the ability to look outside of himself. And i always wondered about that. And what about that charges like Stephen Ambrose . God bless you. To answer your lincoln question youre absolutely right the ability to look at himself from the outside from this enormous confidence and a remarkable sense of humor it is the ability to laugh at oneself and thats a great quality. When historians write history we go back and look at ms. Many primary sources as we can and then you try to figure out with different conflicting ideas to intuitively understand. It is complicated doing historical work but worth it to put the sources together and give the narrative to the reader that can make the people come alive. What was the biggest lesson after the revolution came out with the fitzgeralds in the kennedys. The biggest lesson was you acknowledge their, acknowledged and corrected it to the author satisfaction, when it became public acknowledged it again and theres nothing you can do to change the path other than to make sure in the lincoln book everything is checked and everything is fine, what can you do. There are 100 plus pages of footnotes in the bibliography. The reason for that wouldve been true even if this had not happened because are so many primary sources and so much about the lincoln world, very Generous Group of scholars with people who study lincoln all their lives, when you found new things, you want to put in the footnote for the other scholars that they can look out for themselves. Its in a certain sense assuring process in the lincoln scholars will be happy in a hundred years from now some scholars will say i found it because it was there. You wrote an essay after was revealing junior 2002 and it talks about your own fallibili fallibility. There is no way you can be perfect, i like to believe most of my books wouldve been able to do is to deal fairly with the characters and never have a biased and not be mean toward them but you want to make sure you credited everything in its appropriately done, and you learn about that and to make sure it is right. You about the fitzgeralds and the kennedys was delayed two years because of the document. It turned out that teddy kiddingly gave me access to 150 cartons that have been over 50 years, it turned out that they had saved her most everything, every letter that they wrote to one another, check stubs, movie cards, letters from the family, i was away into the Kennedy Family and would not have had and it was worth spending another couple of years, that took me ten years. You right in the book that had times been different, you could had a politician in the family. She was the one, there were three kids at the top of the family, joe junior, jack and kathleen, they were the golden trio, everything right from them, there was a daughter rosemary and then came eunice, she was a person that took care of everybody else in the family and she had intensively, drive and she was the leader of the Younger Group of generations of the kennedys, they often said if she had been a boy she wouldve been the one who ran for office in 1946. Shes done remarkable things with the Special Olympics and the commitment to mental retardation as a result. What did you know about kathleen who died in a plane crash in 1947. She was a rebel, she went to europe with her father, she fell in love with the duke harding ten, Billy Harding ten and she married him even though he was protestant and then fell in love with another protestant after he died in the war. She was beautiful and feisty and had her own life apart from the kennedy moral under more like the other family members. In the book are probably sooner better than i can say it, you write about how joe senior came down and told his family on the death of joe junior. It was a blow for joe senior that can never be restored, i thank you forever altered by that. Joe junior was the one they thought would be the president of the United States are much more socially at ease than jack was when he was younger. All the families hope to put on him when joe senior found that he was killed in a plane crash in world war ii. I dont think he would survive, she had her love with god and joe junior was with god and should be with him someday but joe senior said he was not so sure and he did not know if he could take this. It was like a blake enter break that can never be restored in the family. Work in the family members tell you about that afternoon. Somebody came to the door to tell them and there is a sense of not being wanting to believe it, there was a sense of anybody who hears about a son or daughter being killed in the military but you know the minute when 70 comes in what theyre about to tell you. They finally separated and tried to make the best of it and what happened rose a little but, a lot of joe juniors friends and colleagues and people had been in the military wrote letters and told her what a wonderful leader and how great he was, that gave a great effect. Next call comes from phoenix. Through the nervousness i will ask you quick questions and hang up and listen. Dont be nervous. Will take it one at a time. Number one you say you try to write the books and by the way even though you were accused of things, i find you very interesting. You have given credit to president johnson. Everybody thinks kennedy did all these things to record the minorities but is actually president johnson and he does not get the credit. Going back to lincoln. I dont understand you said you try to write the biographies without biases, lincoln raped in torture the United States constitution more than any other president in the history of man. Habeas corpus, like locking up newspaper writers, dealing people who spoke out against him and im talking about people from the north not the south. I have not read your book, did you include that did you include the fact that he violated the you United States constitution. If george bush does that now, people will be calling for impeachment. Abraham lincoln wanted to centralize the United States government, personally i think slavery, i believe it was an abomination, it was the worse his country has ever committed against itself but i believe slavery couldve been reconcile to the north paying the software rather than that with fort sumter, you cannot have slaves, we will quintuple the amount of taxes that your pain, thats when the shots were fired. Lincoln violated the constitution like no other president ever has before him or after him and that to me is one of the most important legacies of his administration. It is terrible when anybody is killed but i understand john who is from a good family and a very intelligent man and had good connections, this guy has destroyed the constitution. Let me talk to a series of things. Lincoln thought he was preserving and what he was preserving is not the union or emancipating the slave, he believed if the south were allowed to succeed at the whole experiment that the democracy would be destroyed the slavery would stay in the south and the west would succeed from the east and everyone would be delighted that a beacon of hope that america represented that ordinary people could govern themselves would be undone. It was something very large to his fighting for, no question in wartime civil liberty suffered. No question when he undid habeas corpus he had the reasons for doing it and what happened the troops were coming to protect washington and people in maryland were prevented from getting there any need to do something to get the troops around the whole cost but nonetheless that is not an excuse and somebody said even as times are the most urgency when you need to be most protective of the constitution but without the civil war slavery wouldve continued but more important people thought until the 20th century it wouldve continued an abomination and even more if the south is to succeed, everything is good for instill stands for wouldve been undone. Lots of people had to die and its a terrible thing they had to die. It is a mass or hell, i think most historians would argue that was a status. 735 the chapter of the right, just because hed been honored for the slain, he believed he would be exulted and assassinated lincoln will not be enough, he knew his biographer observed the conspiracy was spoiled by mark anthony whose famous made outlaws and a martyr procedure and to paraphrase William Henry stewart was mark anthony. What i had not absorbed was a triple assassination shot. He wanted to decapitate the entire structure so he had a coconspirator sir there was going to assassinate andrew johnson. But the guy got to the hotel and started drinking and never got to the Vice President hotel to kill him but the third assassin to get to his house and he lived in Lafayette Park across from the white house and he just spoke in a week or so before in bed with his jaw wired up in the assassin came in attempting to have medicine and made his way upstairs and georges son was at the top of the stairs would not let him into the bedroom he headed with the revolver and fractured his call and went into a coma, went into the bedroom and had a bowie knife which he slashed his other son within the nurses aid and went to his bed and slashed his cheek off and the only thing preventing him from dying he had a wire and his jaw and then slashed to more people. What is he was hoping that he could somehow undo the Vice President , the president and the secretary of state that it might give hope to the dying southern cause. And you write that he survived in a son survived by six weeks later frans sister was dead. Choose a great character way ahead of her time, very, very smart, ideal i listed. As founder fragment in her paper shes always frail a lot of the 19 century women have various vapors no one can figure out what they were but she had a fair constitution and after she tended to her husband and son for weeks they were in difficult situations and they started to get better and she wrote in her papers that she never before believed in vicarious suffering but maybe she took on the illnesses and was going to die and she died inexplicably six weeks later. Team of rivals, the genius of Abraham Lincoln in the next call is from virginia. You gave this question to mrs. Goodman at the beginning. My question, how does she come to something fresh with the lincoln biography, so many other lincoln scholars, how do somebody find something fresh in my next question, are most africanamericans wonderful historians who wrote a book about lincoln that was forced into the glory, i was wondering can a particular racial biased or gender biased come into ones writing and a historian, woman historian could bring her male counterparts they cannot bring. I want to think that possibly, when i first started i had no faith that i find something fresh and nothing mattered more to me then when the Great Lincoln biographer of the generation read the book and said it was the first book on lincoln published. Thats all he needed to hear forever. The only thing they gave me a chance could possibly Say Something fresh, although these guys that a, guys, because they kept diaries, they were gossiping about lincoln and each other and it had not always been used in legal biographies and i think because they care about their lives and their families, i tried to make them into human beings not just policymakers. It may be that is partly a woman perspective, as they say in the 19th century i did nothing about lives and families. I think your question into glory is interesting because there has been comments in recent years that lincoln did say racist things in the 1850s when he was debating Stephen Douglas and he was not true sure if blocks can be on juries and boa never achieve equality in the United States it was equality to the statement as if you do not wish this would happen but he wasnt sure we were capable of that and i think what it shows there is a pervasive racism in the country as a whole and very little belief among abolitionist the box can be equal to white and its a sad commentary on where america was and is taken 150 years even bond that to get to the point that we gave blocks the right to vote instill prejudice in the country. When did mary todd date Stephen Douglas. Mary todd was the belle of springville when she was a young girl. It wouldve been when she was 20, 22 years old, he was in illinois and they were in the same circle, even in douglas had been in the same circle when they were young and less to think of mary todd when she was a young girl, theres so much sadness in her life with a cover of the older woman the lost three of her four children one died at three years old willie died in the middle of the civil war, her youngest died 18 and then choose eventually put into an asylum by her oldest son robert because she did not think he was stable enough to live on her own. When lincoln met her when shes dating Stephen Douglas, she was intelligent, well educated, she love poetry and politics which is very unusual for woman at the time and theres a wonderful story when lincoln first saw her and came up to her and stretched around, married i would love to dance with you in the worst way and she said you certainly did. It was awful. After they were married she said she considered Stephen Douglas to be a little giant from the side of intellectually my husband towered over douglas just as he does physically. She said that during the period of the 1850s when he was going to be not only the opponent in 1868 but an opponent in 1860s for the president ial right. Stephen douglas was short and bold looking so he was called the little giant he had a huge head in smart but i think mary believed in the lincoln early on which is quite something, historians have been unkind but she was a partner in the 1850s, she had faith in him and i dont think he needed her to give him ambition. He had all the ambition in the world because ever since he was young he wanted to accomplish something so worthy that his story can be told after he died, that would carry him through even if he never married anybo anybody. Did he have any dealings with Stephen Douglas when he became president. A wonderful thing happened in terms of the relationship, Stephen Douglas and once a war has started he was close to dying at the point but he came to the white house and offered his services to lincoln which meant he is a former democrat or democrat the time said this is not a time for partisanship im with you. Thats a moment to remember because of the last time they saw each other before he died a few months later. What was he suffering from. He had difficulties between alcoholism and his body was ravaged by the terrible pressure he put it there. Unlike most people that time im not sure if use an alcoholic but he did ravish his body. During that time very few candidates stopped on their own, does not consider dignified but douglas went all over the country in 1860 trying to win the election and i think his body wore down. How did you go about putting this together, you refer to the book and later in the program you show your library. The process of writing this. I read an essay that said its important when youre writing especially for doing research and it will take a long period of time not to get her life by doing too Much Research before you start writing. Otherwise if i went out for five or six years doing research and hadnt written words i mightve said what are we going to do. Instead as soon as i knew i was going to write, took a couple of years to figure out i would write about the rivals, i was also working on the memoir and growing up with the doctors, is doing research on lincoln in writing about the dodgers which is a great combination. Once i figured out i knew i wanted to start all the data for rivals were waiting to hear the news that they have been nominated for the presidency of the Republican Party. I wrote that chapters year end year ago just ahead of the beginning and then i know i was cycling back to the earlier life to bring them back up to that point. I make sure to do my research on the childhood and the young adulthood in the earlier life so i could write that section. Use time i got to the chapter i would spend a month or so working additionally to make sure i have everything in place. Thats right stretched out for ten years. Booktv is traveling around the country, Madison Wisconsin has this. I am from Madison Wisconsin and my question is do remember any specific teachers that taught you to love the story of history and can you tell us about them. I absolutely can. In some ways i had some wonderful teachers in high school, a woman named ms. Austin who went to school in long island new york and she was the best history to teacher in new york state. She made us feel like she really care passionately about these people when she told us about Franklin Roosevelt and she loved him and when she talked about his death she cried and when she talked about the civil rights in the 50s there was a sense of her involvement and she was dignified wonderful woman and then when i went to comey college in maine i had an incredible teacher who somehow was so involved in political theory in government and politics, he made you feel that plato was alive and theres no question what history teachers when they are good what they can do to make your religion not reading about people who are dead and long gone and no interest in relevance to modern day life, your reading about people at passion, learning, problem, love with lives. If you could feel their life again just as you feel the People Living in their own lives, they come alive and you care about history and i was lucky enough to have the two great teachers. In writing wait till next her, what did you learn about yourself. The most important thing in writing that book because my parents died when i was young, my mother when i was 15 and my father when i was in my 20s, it was as if somehow they were not alive in my life in the same way except the stories are told to my children and to be able to share their lives with the people who would read the book so much more to me than writing a book and the more i realized it and i remember the fact that my father in some way was the First Teacher i ever had and i often like to say hes taught me how to keep score when i was only six years old and when he was in new york, i can record the history with the dodger game, when your dad comes home in every single night he spends two hours with you and i realize i recount every single play of every single inning and it makes you think theres something magic about history and im convinced, i dont think i know until wrote the memoir with the session with my dad, first i would blurt out the dodgers won, but they lost. And i love to tell stories from the beginning to the middle to the end. One of the autographs in the book your sister charlotte and you look a lot like your mom. I would like to think so, so hard from so many years from the time when she died, the memories of her taught me living, she had a fever as a child and not able to leave her house very much and have the arteries of a 7yearold and she was only 30 years old but every night she would read to me as long as i stay awake in the childhood dream of never having to go to sleep. The only thing i loved as much as her reading to me was listening to stories. I somehow became obsessed with the idea if i keep her talking about the days when she was young and healthy before the fever setting that somehow the aging process we are witnessing would be stopped in his tracks. I would say mom tell me a story when you are my age not really rising how particular that was when i had my own three sons when they said mom tell me a story about our age. To read slowly and deliberately over the passages of the rhythm of the language in wellchosen words, she modulated her voice with different characters in the narration and you also said her voice was softer than yours. I have allowed voice and used to tease me that she could hear me wherever i was. I am afraid there was never shy or quiet. How did you get the nickname bubble. My father like to think i was enthusiastic about things and i would get excited whenever were going someplace and he thought that was a bubbly thing, that was embarrassing he would write me letters and camp, everybody knew what he was calling. You had a photograph that was in the book, wait till next year. It was on the avenue. The homes are so close to one another and my best friend had a window next to mine across the narrow driveway, we could talk to each other at night when we were supposed to be asleep. It was indeed, hers is on the second floor. On those days in new york in the 1850s in the 1950s there were giant dodger and yankee fans altogether, she was a yankee fan and i was the dodger and across the street baseball was the abiding passion and shared by everybody on the block. Michael francis. Thats my fathers name. That man i loved so much, he had such a difficult childhood he grew up in brooklyn, his father was a firm and he had a little brother who was six years old when he was ten little sister who is two and a mother pregnant, his mother died and his brother use left with his little sister and his father killed himself and his little sister when she was 16 years old died in the dentist chair from faulty anastasia. You would think that would create a man who did not have a life for and use the most optimistic, outgoing twinkle in his eye, somehow he not only survived but gave affirmative life to all of us the gift he gave to love life that i will never forget. You write about the communion in the book. Without a defining moment. It was a defining moment, two things that happen, right before holy communion, the doctor came to my town i was so excited the first time in ever see the player outside of the field. It was announced he would speak in a Protestant Church, when youre brought up as a catholic you think if you step out of the Protestant Church will be struck dead. I went into the church with my father and said dont worry about it and he said is going to be fine, i was worried he traded the life of my everlasting soul for this night so i went to my first concession and had to tell the priest what mightve been a sin and i told about front and strategically to get over with and he told me exactly what my dad said, dont worry, its not a sin you were in a religious service. And he said what else my child and i had to acknowledge that i wished harm to others in various new york yankees players so the doctors can win the first world series, he said how often do you make these wishes and i said every night when i say my prayer and then he said i love the doctors as much as you do, you dont have to wish harm on others to make them win someday they will win fairly and squarely you understand and i said yes, i do. He said say a special prayer for my brooklyn dodgers. 1949 in 1957 included the dodgers, yankees and giants one competing for the world series. The giants in the dodgers left a short period of time did they not. It was such a blow to those of us that love baseball. Every year we argue whos the best center filled in basement and suddenly the two teams were gone and we i do not follow for so many years because of the loss of the doctors until i finally moved to Harvard College and went to fenway park and became a national sox fan. I was wondering about this theory that has just come out and another book that lincoln was a depressive, i find that very hard to believe as someone who has had some experience in my familys with depression, its just not the energy to overcome it the way that this theory says that lincoln did. I wonder what your findings on that and what do you think about lincoln having been in depressive. I came away with a different feeling. I think he was born with a temperament as opposed to an optimistic temperament. A great friend of mine has written a wonderful book studying children from 0 22 show that you can tell early on which one of the two those children are, life can change things for them but he understood well his colleague and he knew how to get out of it. He had a remarkable sense of humor. Powered him draw the failures of his life that he had Terrific Energy he was the one who kept them going so that temperament is different. Considering a Close Association with president johnson and the last couple years how do you view his political acumen compared to lincoln . There are similarities to make people come out in their point of view but johnson had a much more handson policy with congress those tapes are fantastic when he was trying to get the Civil Rights Movement they show him talking to the minority leader he knows hes a filibuster on the civil rights act. So they would be filled with public projects so he says if you come with me on this bill 99 years from now and into hundred years from now so he knew how to persuade people and there is a very funny story with the former ceo with pensacola and said i know you knew Lyndon Johnson when you were younger but i have a story at that you dont know and told me when nixon first get into the presidency he went to the ranch to talk to johnson about a private matter. He looked up and said how much was to remember what happened 20 years ago only those that had the tape machine to tape those verbatim conversations. He said you go back and tell your good friend nixon theres nothing more important than that taping system and then that is nixons downfall. [laughter] i love that story. You said johnsons and how is it possible these people can be so ungrateful to me after i had given them so much . What hurt him the most he knew how much he had done for civil rights in poor people and education and yet when those last months and years Public Opinion polls had gone down edits the way people have forgotten what he had accomplished. And then he died obviously before he came back to his childhood and i had all the stuff and i wanted to share it so that became my first book i major in constitutional law. I would have become a historian if not working for him. Cspan theres a story he crawled into bed with you . [laughter] he would wake up in the morning and in the loneliness he wanted to talk. He can it bear being alone. He wanted anyone sitting outside the room so if he talked he knew you were there sometimes you come into my room and the morning. I would get up then he would bring the covers up to his chin and talk to me. Thats a wonderful way to see a persons ability to be an actual human being in was a very powerful president. And with the Chicago Tribune that says he wont run just under two minutes and then we will come back and get the story behind his decision. With the partisan division that are developing in this political year. With american sons in the field far away americas future under challenge right here at home and the world hopes every day. I do not believe i should about an hour or day of my time or to any other for any of this office accordingly i shall not seek and i will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president. But let men everywhere know that a strong and a competent and virulent america stands ready tonight to speak and honorable peace and stands ready tonight to defend and honor whatever the price for whatever the burden that beauty may require. Thank you for listening. Good night and god bless all of you. There was an error before you even johnson seemed please and then you tell the story of johnsons visit with president truman two months later and johnson commenting on trumans decision or the ability to make a decision and not to look back. What he so honored he had to drop the atomic bomb he made that decision on the best facts at his disposal maybe he wouldve done differently but he never looked back where johnson and those months before he left the presidency would wake up every night and wonder if the bombs dropped in the right place to they do the right thing . He was tortured by that. So what happened to that he began to feel the only way the war would come to an end as if he took himself out of the political process he tried to negotiate peace people say hes just doing it for the next election so now the president s thinking more about history than another term. And he felt like he was paralyzed and he had a sense he had a grandmother who had a stroke and as a kid he was terrified to watch her because she couldnt move any had a dream and then to hear the advisers taking it away from him which symbolically was happening and then to go see Woodrow Wilsons picture on the wall that he did not have a stroke but metaphorically he felt that if he took himself out of it he could do better for the country and the country would remember him better. What happened i originally had not started to work with him and then work for secretary of labor. After johnson gave the speech and after mlk was killed johnson would make a major speech to the country on civil rights. And i was so excited he would do that to turn civil rights and we had a function and shortly after that. He would always Say Something to me as if he knew our path and said i wish you had given the speech. And then set i want her to come work with me with the rest of the fellowship. But they said you have to take the chance so i went to the white house and then stayed on through january 69. Springfield massachusetts you are neck. Caller a couple of things. Going out then massachusetts as a red sox fan and in 1978 as a young man. [laughter] and with the caa into mlk private life i always wondered what a contradiction that was. What is on what was the thinking . That hoover was a part of this quick. I thank you are right. J edgar hoover was a force but that doesnt mean the president didnt have a responsibility to rein him in. But that was his specialty to look into the private lives of these public figures in case some dirt could be found so they could be discredited. For people like hoover for the Civil Rights Movement was a threat because people were gathering together with some violence and they didnt like the substance. Through kennedy and johnson there is a tendency to look into mlk just in case they might need something. You are right for somebody who believes in civil rights, the idea that civil liberty to be violated is not tenable. Cspan explain this photograph. This is great. It has a little bit of a story. The guy on the crutches is my middle son the one in the center is my youngest son joey. He had just come back from iraq. He graduated from harvard jun june 2001 and instead of going to graduate school that paul he ended up joining the army for a fouryear commitment as soon as he finished basic training he was sent to iraq as a platoon leader and was in baghdad for one year. After they left and went back to germany he had his acl operated on why hes on crutches because he had torn his knee and the red sox found out so they invited him to throughout the first ball. It so funny he said he was more nervous that night when that the rpg went 1 foot over his head and thats the first time i learned of that. All week long the harvard kids can now buy tickets on ebay to come back and watch him. You better hit a strike president doesnt matter you are on crutches they will say you are in iraq. He said its a guy thing so he was practicing always again somehow managed to hit the plat plate. Even staying up all night to listen to the red sox games. Cspan how did you feel when they won the series . It was astonishing. It still feels good i can wake up and remember what it felt like ive only had two world series the dodgers and 55 and the red sox 2004. Maybe it is embedded that way although sometimes i wish my father was born in the bronx. That there was something about that first world series and then the second. And then it happened we could talk to joey in iraq and my son richard in california thats what so incredible about baseball. It allows you to go through the generations. I have often said we have season tickets and i can close my eyes imagine when im a young girl and somehow when i see my son sitting there its almost like an invisible loyalty. They never saw my father or grandfather draw the stories i have told. And baseball does that. Cspan how will history view the war in iraq quick. It will be very hard to be viewed in a positive way. If whether or not there was a rationale for going in there even a mass destruction if there was a larger goal they had in mind to create a stronghold of democracy in the middle east that if you dont tell the people what your purposes its hard for them to gain the support of the war. Even lincoln questioned the rationale to instigate for his own purposes. That has very successful but it questions on how we started it. More importantly even if the rationale was on a level so the fact we had not prepared in those numbers. When my son first got there he had the peaceful reconstruction with the iraqi translator and with days looting had taken place and when it set of a Peaceful Mission he had checkpoint duty, weapon search and had to take his platoon out to the targets so they could kill the insurgents. But he never secondguessed going into an army. What a great decision from affluent concorde and harvard he saw those he never would have seen. And became the leader sometimes i think we have lost something by not having the draft because it makes men out of the john boys and men women. And then when i see these peoples names in the newspapers and that they dont have that same sense from world war ii that everybody is somebody overseas. We will have to we think that with these missions abroad. Firstever comment and then to questions. If people havent read it already no ordinary time is an excellent that. I highly recommend it to everybody. Did you cover the massacre and lincolns response. I would link in view the real possibility of a black woman becoming president of the United States . I did cover the massacre to some extent after it took place it was a massacre black soldiers there was a call for retaliation so that somehow in the north we could massacres southern soldiers. Lincoln was very hesitant he didnt believe it was right to retaliate against individuals who may not have been part of a massacre. But it was part of the retaliatory order and that it would not have to be you which is what happened. As far as what lincoln thought of the black woman president he would be delighted as always they shared the values. The most important thing he thought is that it clear the way that artificial weight to prevent them from rising to the level of their own talent and that was an example what was so extraordinary he could push his way up to the top but you would see in modern society the problems of education and those that cannot push their way up to the top to have somebody whose value was to help them go through that process so whatever talents they have for hard work with that availability. Springfield illinois. Readings. On the 145th anniversary of his election. I did not think about that. Of a brief statement and to questions. There is a depiction of lincoln reaching out to sioux words friend hughes and a Roman Catholic cathedral six blocks south of the old state capitol. Is there any evidence that lincolns archbishop was the doctrine of higher law and will seward be vindicated with the confirmation with the fifth Catholic Justice . I did not know about the stainedglass window but he was a great friend and in fact during the civil war went to england and did some human work for the administration by being over there its funny because when seward was running earlier that what you are saying about the higher law is true and what seward said in a famous speech in 1850. He really said theres a higher lot and the constitution to guide us to slavery and a lot of people were frightened by that thought. There is a question whether or not church and state would be comfortable today with whats going on because even as a governor in new york state he worried that catholics were not getting enough education and living in poverty. He talked about public aid to the Catholic Schools that is in controversy today. I heard him at the time they wanted nothing to do with helping catholics in any way. Where was the wigwam in chicago quick. I dont know. Its not there now. Probably knew when i wrote the book but it doesnt exist in chicago anymore and it was constructed exactly for the convention. They say it was called the wigwam because the great chiefs were there and it is what allow chicago to get the convention because they promised they would build the structure for it. But when the Republican National committee met figuring out where to put the convention seward wanted in your chase wanted ohio bates in missouri lincoln was a dark horse they said have in illinois we dont have to worry about anyone there but lincoln knew the importance of having it in chicago he got the railroads to get discounted fares than he could pack the hall with supporters and bait supporters said they lost by one vote in missouri than he couldve been president. Who were trumbull and jed . He ran against lincoln for the first senate race 1855 and the Republican Party is made of these various elements former way exam democrats and Liberty Party so the state legislature is choosing the senator and lincoln had the majority of the votes. He only needed five to win the nomination for the senate in 1855. Trouble supporters of former democrat were not willing to go with lincoln because he was from the wind party so they held out to look like it would be a stalemate and lincoln was worried if neither one that the third candidate was more pro southern and slavery so he turned all the his 47 to trumbull to allow him to become a senator his friends couldnt figure it out and mary was so upset she hardly spoke to mrs. Trumbull but lincoln went to his Victory Party and shook his hand and as a result of not making an enemy and jed become his great supporters in 1858 and norman jed is a key figure too many election and 60. Somehow if you dont treat those people that hurt you to bring them back into your life they will help you later on. The democratic nominee breckenridge is a southern candidate. You also have the know nothings to correct the Democratic Party was split. Lincoln as the republican candidate than douglas and then more conservatives with different aspects. Thats one of the reasons why because of the split. The final vote count expect not very great but what lincoln was afraid of with the Great Electoral votes went for douglas. There were conservative merchants didnt want slavery to be such an issue so to do yeomans work in new york he won the election dont worry he said until i hear new yorks totals of the lost new york that it would be to to the house of representatives. That assassination as president elect my was this embarrassing to Abraham Lincoln . He was told when the train passed through baltimore that there could be a mob attack on the train. He better go in and the dead of night so people would not know he was coming through. He did. He did not wear scottish cloak like this was portrayed but the word got around and then to come under disguise it look like heres the president elect and he wished then he had taken the risk and went in baltimore even in daylight. Las vegas go ahead. Caller in a letter november 1864 Abraham Lincoln wrote as a result of the war corporations have become enthroned in the era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will prolong its rule by preying upon the prejudice of the people until all wealth is concentrated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed. Have you heard about that quick. I dont know that letter. That is extraordinary. Who did he write it to . I know i picked up in a book and it was quoted. It was things you dont know about american history. Early on in the war they have to let contracts out to suppliers and then the middleman with scandalous profits to produce knapsacks so you can see the worries they may have even today that cameron who was the secretary for and camerons whole career he thought that he stood up for his first secretary of for writing a letter to congress to say if they are at fault we are all at fault and it was a problem of the chaos and we have to do something to get the weapons made and mistakes were made but no question it produces centralized power and for corporations but i would love to find such a letter. Cspan do you thank you skim over . I dont think so. I do have a positive feeling toward lincoln. And day by day thats probably why i chose him. There is no question in his understanding of quality was not a spacious has one would have hoped just as in Franklin Roosevelt is much as i revered him his incarceration with the japanese americans the highest violations and civil liberties. So in lincolns case most historians would argue that i found that to be true as well. Kansas you are next. Caller thank you for taking my call. If you are interviewing president lincoln on cspan what would you ask him personally and what would he say how well people have viewed his place in history decades later . Great questions. Mostly about his presidency is to talk about what he might have done after the war. Its a big a no question of history. If he lived with reconstruction how would that be different . How when he had been assured even as he brought this back everybody wonders if things would have been different. But personally i would say please tell me some of your great stories. Lincoln was so much of a storyteller and so gifted that is part of how his rise to power took place. He would travel around the circuit it when he went from courthouse to courthouse people would come from miles around to listen to a standup and then to say that sad face of his his eyes waited sparkle and his whole life force would be shown. I would give anything to listen to one story after another. What would he think about the fact his name has stretched so far . Lincoln would be astonished as much as he wanted to be remembered after he died in that dream powered him to the failures of his life, he wanted to say made a difference in the lives of the people of his generation. And from leo tolstoy that made it seem that lincolns life had gone so much further than he the lincoln could have imagined he would have blushed that tolstoy went into the caucuses and he met with a bunch of barbarians who did know anything about the west and they asked about tolstoy and said no you havent told us about the man we want to know about that spoke with the voice of thunder tell us of Abraham Lincoln and tolstoy was astonished that his name had barely knew about america we just know this place so far that if we journeyed there we were the old man when we got there. Tolstoy concluded why did they want to know cracks why was he so great he was in a great general but it was concluded he was a humanitarian and it was his character that will last. And then because it would last forever if lincoln heard that it would make him so happy but his modesty would say that cant be true. You have a sketch of his office in the white house where is that quick. What happened in those days and then the oval office in the cabinet. It is a simple setting. And the desk. And the secretary of treasury in which office was most powerful. But that was before civil service. And those that are diplomats. And then to say you cant waste time talking to all these peopl people. He said is my Public Opinion about i have to do and remember the great for which i have come. And it is so insulated because of the way it has run. Their first election comes from the people and also to lose touch and the Public Opinion polls route he wouldnt say they dont mean anything he would shape the public cannot be constrained and then he understood the mood of the people. In todays day and age we dont have any more recordings we know of we have emails and computers maybe not as many letters how will historians look at this error 100 years from no now . It will be much harder to recapture what people were thinking and feeling with much more stuff to go through but they wont have what you get from a diary or a letter if you are writing to your wife for your daughter may be sometimes thinking of history but mostly hr raw emotions. And then you can feel what they were feeling at that time. The art of letter writing is no longer there they taught each other how to write letters husbands and wives are away so much of the time. That is really means for communication. That im not even sure we know how to write. And here im supposedly a writer. And reduced to think he pardoned a soldier who fell asleep meanwhile my other son is 14 months older and in that picture holding his crutches he wants to be a writer and wrote to his brother every single day when you bring up the kids and their fighting in the back of the car once a new they were that close thats all that mattered. We would be gone but they would have each other. Went on next year but it is important if that fails or succeeds. How did lincoln and visit the constitution . Of course he never could have imagined that movement will be to him with a challenge in the civil war even then the Founding Fathers but thats why it was hard for him he could not have been an abolitionist they said tear up the constitution then we dont care about the constitution. He felt the whole framework would be gone but he really loved the declaration of independence he saw that and a call for equality. One of the few photographs of the presidency. I cant see it. On the battlefield . He went one dozen times to visit the soldiers. After each battle was lost he felt compelled would ride the horse somehow it would lift their spirits and then his having their spirit inside themselves these trips were so important that when he ran again in 1864 against general mcclellan to say he cared more about the soldiers about than the second election he would be fine if he lost the soldiers he would be devastated some bond had occurred between these trips for they voted eight out of ten for lincoln even though they knew that meant prolonging the war because mcclellan wouldve brought about peace. But they came to trust the cause and this man it was his biggest gratifications. Our conversation is with Doris Kearns Goodwin. Caller hello. Its a pleasure to talk to you im so excited about hearing about your book im anxious to read it. Do you have anything to do with spielbergs new movie . Sure. What happened is i first met spielberg in 2000 and working on a documentary and put together a bunch of historians and found out i was working on lincoln. He said he would like to make a movie sunday. So early on he optioned the rights even before i finished it to scriptwriters were put to work on it and then he put a second scriptwriter who is a british playwright who was such a good friend he spent last thanksgiving and this thanksgiving so i am not sure when it will be made. Hopefully sometime soon but there is no was hands i would rather have it in. Cspan what did lincoln sound like . Begin bases he has a thin highpitched voice but they said it could range those days it was outdoor venues and it could be heard one reporter gave the first speech and 70 started out you are aware of how awkward he looks via once he starts to speak he speaks with such conviction and strength now suddenly his voice is louder in the fall energy is seen his face abide up in his body would move and he was a different person so no question matching those words he could deliver those with heartfelt feeling. You mention the movie in the planning stages what will it be called . I suspect lincoln. What else . I now. He will decide that. Seattle washington you are next. Caller i want to follow up on that citations of that throne earlier it was a letter 1864 some surrounding context we might congratulate ourselves as the word nears its end with the vast amount of treasure and blood for our republic to see a crisis approaching for the safety of my country and as a result in the area of corruption in high places will follow and then it will endeavor to prolong its reign with the prejudice of people until all wealth and the republic is destroyed until more anxiety for the safety my country. God grant that may prove groundless. Then a few years later januar january 1837 he said in a speech to the Illinois Legislature and what pleases the people we are called upon to appropriate the people so could you say a few words on his relationship . Thank you for the call. He did say at one point labor was prior to capital the full theory was laboring people built up the work in the business and then to have other laboring people but everything was primary to that. So there is no question he would have a sense at the age before the Industrial Revolution before a robber barons and fullscale capitalist and then to build up a certain amount of wealth. And then to think if he would look back. Delivered lincoln for ten years . So well. I could have gone on another five or ten years. Now i look at the place i work on this ridiculous chaise lounge because i need a laptop and my papers around me so i said with the computer on a laptop and i look at that lounge and i feel sad and my husband works as well in the home. He goes to his study and i go to mine we read the newspapers i would somehow have to keep up with the current day because i was doing analysis for nbc at night. We would go into town to do lunch every day just to get out and then every night we go to the same restaurant in concorde with a group of 20 or 30 of us all have children who are grown and need to sit around and become part of each others lives. There is something so structured about those days with lincoln at the core i miss that now. Even during the time of Monica Lewinsky are the 2000 election are all the troubles i knew i could wake up the next morning with Abraham Lincoln and that was a great treat. I get the sports page first we have a deal he gets the front page and then we switch. We will show your home in concorde we traveled up there and then we will come back and continue our discussion book tv in depth with Doris Kearns Goodwin. Spirit love of history goes back to the days i was only six years old my father taught me how to keep score at baseball games. I could record for him the history of the brooklyn dodger game. When your father comes home and spends two hours with you every night listening to you record the history even that afternoon and makes it seem like theres something magic. I had a great history teacher in high school with a deeper love and they came to a fascination with the presidency because of having work with Lyndon Johnson as a young girl. Somehow those held it together at that point. I like to wake up early in the morning around six or 630 and go into my study and read over what i have written the day before hoping it still looks good. The night before it might seem great. Then my husband and i have breakfast i have to want to live at the people sidebyside. Living with franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt was such a great pleasure and embarrassingly it took me six years to write the book that was longer than world war ii was five. If youre going to spend that much time with them you better enjoy their company. I read an essay one time at the turn of the last century and she said the reason semi people write about lincolns because he so companionable this took me twice as long as the civil war and yet i enjoyed every day he such a good man and his companionship i craved day by day would have a hard time writing about somebody i didnt want to live with day by day. Great historians have written about hitler or stalin. I dont think that could be me even with flaws and want to enjoy their company day by day. The book no ordinary tiny beginning in chapter one with to remember him and hyde park he would close his eyes to reflect on that time. What was he thinking . Obviously here he was as president paralyzed from the waist down unable to walk under his own power again and he was such an athletic outgoing person with his physical activity. Before he goes to sleep at night he would like to remember the days as a young boy at hyde par park. There was a big sledding hill and as a boy he would go to the top fly down and then walked back up to the top so instead of counting sheep he would remember going up to the top and back down and now it allows him to go to sleep but what gave you that solace was the memory of the time as a young boy had all of his powers. Who was missy . s secretary. She started working for him at 18 years old and loved him the rest of her life became the secretary during the early days and with them in the 19 twenties trying to get his power to walk again while eleanor remained at home and stayed with him to the presidency and had a stroke in the middle of the years and then went home to somerville. Thats the sad piece of his life. I felt sad he didnt keep up with her you want to say youre such a great guy but youre not being good to this woman he could not talk to her knowing that she could not talk to him that he should talk to her as if she could respond. The sense you get from the book is that he needed to be around people there was a constant buzz of activity and social activity to make a think what happened was in part he could not travel a lot inside washington. He love to talk and listen to stories. So he made the second floor into the most exclusive hotel you can imagine. Misty lives of the family, churchill spends weeks at a time Harry Hopkins the Foreign Policy advisor comes to dinner one night never leaves until the work comes till when and one to an end and eleanor is there and her friend stays next to eleanor i kept imagining what kind of conversations all these people would have at night in the corridor around those bedroom suites and when i was there with johnson i wanted to ask everybody was that i wasnt thinking in those terms so i mentioned this on a Radio Program in washington and it happened that clinton was listening so she promptly called me up and said everyone some 50 years earlier so then followed up between midnight and 2 00 a. M. And mr. And mrs. Clinton and the clintons were fdr was that we were sleeping in Winston Churchills bedroom. I was sure he was sitting in the corner drinking his brandy. Why did he marry eleanor . He loved her. To his credit he couldve had any woman at the time very handson and wealthy and the aristocrat he saw something she had such a sad childhood her father and alcoholic mother so beautiful she is to make eleanor feel that she had failed her mother because she did not have a pretty face but eleanor was sent to a boarding school and they made her feel she should have a commitment to social life and social work