Will hear about the history of strand. It was founded in 1927 stretching from union square, we gradually joined 48 bookstores until it was a sole provider now run by thirdgeneration owner. We want to thank you for your support. Without you, we wouldnt be where we are today. We have been open for about two weeks, so wear a mask and stop by if you were on the area. Tonight we are excited to have with us Julian Zelizer with the release of his book the burning down the house. A professor of history of Public Affairs at Princeton University and a political analyst, his most recent books a history of the United States from 1974 coauthored by the moderator, kevin kruse come into the battle for the Great Society which is the winner of the. Awarded fellowship at the New York Historical society, the russell sage foundation, the Guggenheim Foundation and the new america. Tonight, Julian Zelizer will be joined by kevin kruse who studies political, social and urban, suburban history in the 20th Century America focused on conflict is over race, rights and religion, he is particularly interested in segregation and the civil rights movement. [inaudible] his books include the making of modern conservatism, one nation under god, and the recently published fault lies. He is honored at one of americas top young innovators and art and science is by magazines and selected as the historians and history by the history news network. Hes recently been named a lecturer by the organization of historians and John Guggenheim fellowship. Without further ado, Julian Zelizer and kevin kruse. Hello there. Hey, everybody. We will chat and pretend hundreds of people are not lurking in the background. Its good to see you. We worked together on a book called fault line that covered 1944 to the present and Newt Gingrich was a big part of that so im excited to dive into his career and your book about it. A lot of america and a lot of the audience that ics worldwide probably only know Newt Gingrich from his time as speaker and for a lot of america burst onto the scene in 1944 but of course you had about two decades of political activism and congress before that. Tell about the younger Newt Gingrich and when he started in congress, that first run for office what he was like, but he was what hewas all about and whs coming from. Guest welcome, to everyone. Thanks for joining us. Its nice to see people from all over. Newt gingrich had been an army brat and grew up living in different parts of europe. His family was originally from harrisburg, pennsylvania, working class area that was republican and he ended up in georgia. He went to every and married his High School Math teacher and then went to tulane where he got a phd in history and studied colonialism, colonial policy. Then he moved to his first job to west Georgia College and he never liked that. Within eight years he wants to be the president of the college and presiden the president of te department. He wanted a first republican in the area you studied and he is part of that who want to make the south. He was elected in 1978. He conduct di a pretty Vicious Campaign with the give and take of what he is going to do and at one point in the statement, if shes going to move to dc, her family will live in the district and Newt Gingrich jumped on it. Everything about moral values and republicans seem to do whatever is necessary to finally regain power after being 1954 and it catches peoples attention. To the group that he is a leader in the society, tell us about this. Hes strategic enough to organize the likeminded conservatives who thought he was a visionary and willing to do what he did, like another fellow republican who is pretty eager to take on the democrats and stop listening to the calls for civility and bipartisanship. So he had a small cohort and the numbers change over time with about 12 people and o and it wiw and they are like a team on the house. When he has this idea and the viewpoint. The foot soldiers are the most aggressive bunch trying to shake up their own party and we have to do things in ways that are outside of the washington box if we are going to win. Host in much of the pure code that i write about is a guy named bob michael from illinois. Hes been there for a while. He believes in working with democrats and pubes and bipartisanship and as much as he hated to colonial and speaker tim wright. Host talk about how you must learn to use the media in the 1980s to get the message out. Guest that is a big part of the book. There is conservative talk radio he uses the mainstream media, Cable Television and a lot of stories they talk about in the book it was 1984 anyone is allowed to go to the front of the House Chamber and make a speech, oneman special order speeches. They are not reserved, anyone can do it. So they started going to the floor and they made these speeches and keen started to say democrats dont support ron reagans war in the tv cameras rolling and is cspan covering, they made specifics like eddie boland and decide how do you respond to this, what is your answer, and the chamber was silent and as you were watching on cspan, it looked like the democrats had no response but people could see no one was in the chamber because they only let you pick camera on the speakers which was political theater at its finest order tourist depending on your opinion. Tip oneill gets so mad, he comes in and orders the camera to pan the chamber and show theres no one there. But even then he turns up against amanda says he breaks the rule, part of the establishment and he gets even angrier in the blistering speech like gingrich was sitting to the democrats and then they have the word struck from the record as saying the speaker spoke. Cbs and nbc on the nightly news had stories about what they were doing and that he couldnt be more pleased. So it was a was his partner in the 80s its the kind of relationship with the politicians that got along after hours. He blows that up. How does that impact that relationship that they had both . Guest he thought he was much too far to the right that households them understand when are you going to far. They didnt want to go so far that they destroy the institutions and procedures and relationships that were necessary to govern. He said throw that out the window. He would write memos to others, not the bipartisanship, not the civility. All that means is we are going to keep losing and the democrats will keep having their power. You have to teach republicans to be more aggressive, to be more confrontational. To stop negotiating with the republicans. And this, you know, it starts as you see in with mccarthy really, thats how people talk about him. But what happens in the 80s is kind of interesting. More and more start listening to him. The more success he has come of the more intrigue they are by him because they want to have power and they start to think of that tradeoff which can be costly in american politics. Do i want power so much i enter into alliances with people that i know can be dangerous to the institution. Host what is their relationship like . Guest i eyecup everyone enjoys and bias from the strand but the heart of the book revolves around the gingrich after some other conflict with the democrats. In 1987, tip oneill is retired and jim wright had been the majority leader. He was an oldschool democrats. He was a liberal and he believed he was defending against the revolution as the house, the last bastion of politics, but he was a good target for gingrich. Buthat democrats were a corrupt establishment. There were stories about him in the press about the questionable relationship and he sold this book that he published two groups that he spoke to and there was a story that didnt sit quite right. He ripped washington into a frenzy saying jim wright is the most corrupt speaker in history. Small bit about questionable behavior, so that is the heart of the story. Then in 1988, this is when the partparty establishment sees abt human gingrich, who is running for president , george h. W. Bush, reagan as vice president. And in may, michael dukakis, the governor of massachusetts, is attacking bush saying that he is part of the Reagan Administration and the iran contra scandal after scandal and bush was part of it. He called him a squeeze factor. Lee atwater was putting together a pretty Vicious Campaign that weighed on the racial backlash and was very much a character assassination behind the campaign. When bush is struggling in the polls, he picks up on the story and convinces bush to talk about jim wright and take the story that had spoken about the fringes and made the campaign. So, lee atwater saw politics like him. It was a sport, character assassination, and it was about storytelling. Gingrich understood what storytelling was about. Lee atwater was a fan of professional wrestling and pop politics should be run accordingly. Guest host absolutely. Backing up, jim wright looms large in this and for people who dont follow the story, the late 80s there was a Health Speaker who was a texan democrat. Tell us about jim wright and how he came into the story. Host guest he is born in 1922, Newt Gingrich, 1933, said the soldier. Subscribe to the new deal and pretty much on board with the Great Society. He did have spotty moments on civil rights issues against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 because he believes its going to cost him his seat. Later apologetic about this. But by the 70s and 80s, hes pretty liberal on foreign policy, but he accepts most of what they put together. So its hard to imagine a democrats like that. But that is who he was. And he very much salt ready i sl Ronald Reagan is a danger. He thought reagan was rightwing taking steps that were dangerous to the fabric of the country. And overseas he thought reagan supported the contra and it was misguided in that there was opportunity is to negotiate peace. Peace. Thabut he actually pursued on hs own that reagan didnt himself. Democrats didnt like him. He was cold and removed and he was oldschool, the watergate. Meaning how some of the things he did might look in the eyes of the media and washington. He wasnt corrupt but he obligated in that area, as many politicians did, which could be used against him and actually it was. Host the irony of Newt Gingrich with the charges as somebody was shelby say where riddled with its own problems. How are these character issues . Guest he has lots of character issues and not only did he have them but they were public. So there are problems but by the time he goes after jim wright, he had a difficult divorce with his High School Math teacher which was trying to capture what he disliked personally and one of the stories that caught peoples eye he came to discuss divorce ended the article actually kind of ripped out some of the papers which wasnt exactly true although he didnt have any in the hospital. He was also known to be someone with enough air and this was known in washington and it matter to give him that he was part of this new conservative movement with a majority at its base and he also had ethics problems. Hes going after the speaker for the charge of selling his books to make money. He is being charged to promote a book that he wrote and the story actually in the papers at the climactic moment of the story where hes bringing in jim wright down, but he doesnt care. Its a remarkable part of his psychology. Its different. Its not the same and it keeps moving forward. Host the best gift he got was not having a republican in office and to run against a democratic president so how does he make the early years . Guest in some ways he comes first and bill clinton comes second. Some of the parts of the book to move backward even was to bring allies how strategic gingrich was in how he was going to attack the democrats. He doesnt focus that much on liberals versus conservatives, left versus right. In the postwatergate america when there was a lot of distrust and a lot of anger, he turned the story and keeps coming back because he thinks that we thought were his mat presidet made everything he has been saying. He was a picture and then brings them down and i think that comes after. He made bill clinton the embodiment of establishment were too far left establishment, whatever he wanted to focus on, he tried to do the same and i am sure has experienced to say we can move forward with him in judgment debate co impeachment. Host talk about how the Campaign Takes shape. How does he spend not . Guest one of the things he does is smash why the media is useful as so the famous element of the campaign and every one that remembers him or study the contract, which is something of a media gimmick it was a set of promises that if they one, they would enact and that was the first 100 days as a legislative body. Its meant to be put on the refrigerator and he has a rally on the steps of the capitol to talk about the contract. So, stylistically you see him continuing to put together the politics with a media center form of politics that puts weight on the stor stories the republicans were going to tell about their opponent and the language they were going to use and its successful. Once they take over it is a big deal in washington. Its the First Time Since 1954 the democrats controlled both chambers of and republicans controlled both chambers of congress and its almost a second step of the reagan revolution and for conservatives it is a big moment and that is when he can bring all of the tools and strategies and rhetorical weapons into the top powers. Host you mentioned language and that is one of the big things we talk about. Talk about the memo the language of the key mechanism of the control. It is a fascinating memo and i think we can still google it. Before it comes out, the language has been remarkable. Jim wright was furious because he said he may be a criminal. He basically presented as someone who should go to jail and he believed in using the language. One thing he wanted to shape how people saw the democrats in a particular way and using the language by that he used to say that the media likes more Indiana Jones and i think that he believes that. Gingrich took over in 1944 and it was a defunct Political Committee essentially and he used it to distribute to teach them what to do and in 1990 if you want to speak, these are the kind words you nee of words youe when talking about the democrats through his use as a leader it legitimated looking at search and twitter feeds you will see his smile still present resignations. In the 90s when fox news is formed in 96, but i his relationship with the new conservative meaning . Guest when the talk radio is flourishing and 77, 78 and 79 they amplify the message. They call it a Tea Party Revolt and all over the country they are lashing out and it helps gingrich in this cause. In those years he is tied into the conservative talk radio and guest hosted on a local show called confrontation which was the origin of crossfire. But then as the speaker hes close to people like rush. They coordinate messages and depend on conservative talk radio and then on the tail end of the speakership especially during his battle against bill clinton but what is interesting is he comes first. We often think as the conservative media as the origins but i think that roger ailes and some of the founders were already looking at with what republicans have done when they came on the scene and they mimic that memo and how they broadcast the news. Host talk about what happened with clintons impeachment. Talk about his own downfall. Guest it is a shakespearean story here he is bringing together these tactics greater than the Opportunity Society and its now the majority behind him. We know that it stems from the affair but in the end it will bring him down rather than bill clinton. At one level, above the politics is exposed and he had a pretty fierce temper and wasnt a likable person. But 1998 in the midterms, in the middle of the impeachment a lot of republicans are unhappy with the gingrich because of this and just as important, he is yet in another affair as the republicans are going after bill clinton for the same sort of issues of the republicans get rid of him. On the one hand, its the downfall and on the other hand its kind of fitting because he showed they were not going to have power very long and that the leaders could be brought down. It was almost predictable that he would have the same fate. Host we talked about oneill and wright and Newt Gingrich and the ones that came after him. Where do you rank Newt Gingrich in the post world war ii speakers . Guest in that particular certainly if you compare him with democrats like sam rayburn who is the speaker through the 60s in terms of legislation into some of the big debates in the period you can argue nancy pelosi also and in some ways, john weiner transforming the nature of the caucus and checking the on what obama was doing. I think before becoming the speaker is when the legacy is set. He transformed the party and has already popularized in the speaker is kind of the icing on the cake. The most important part is key institutionalizes these ideas. It put him at a high place because it signaled he was the boys, he was the new establishment itself said he was consequential then under the legislative battles he fought with clinton. Host one must question and we will open up. If you have a question, i will ask for you. This is what i know is on everyones mind, what is the connection to the Republican Party at the Trump Administration today. His wife is the ambassador to the vatican and he is a sort of surrogate for trump on fox news and conservative radio. How much of the connection or is this the result of what he did . Guest i think because of a broad level he has room in the Republican Party because it is a gingrich party, so i think a lot of the way that he approaches the politics, a lot of that record we have seen is the willingness to just totally break institutions and procedures. That comes from the logic of the party that he hoped to build. Even this whole focus constantly you would hear from an establishment against conservatives and against him. Its something that he centered his rhetoric. But then the personal connections. Newt gingrich was one of the findablfinal selections and we t the book with that story. He is in indiana meeting with the top people, family members and advisers. Its not in his own interest. This is one of the top advisers when he ran for president in 2012 and she tried to sell the same themes and messages to a praising the monument speech on fox as a milestone so the two are very close. Im not surprised. First is it safe to say roger ailes pretty much from the issues and defining fox news does that give him too much credit . Guest roger ailes is a republican consultant in the 1980s so he is watching very closely the kind of public working for gingrich. Roger ailes was interested in producing information that would help the gop but also the conservative information that would attract the viewers are they on the same page or are they different . Guest i dont know much about, but in terms of how the call practices when he was the minority leader putting aside whether the institutions will work as a big deal to do. And i think that they called if you want to understand anything if he thinks about the power people are always surprised whether it is not allowing the Supreme Court nominee to even meet with senators as we thought of the obama president or using the shutdowns in the process of the gop. Host did they have a good strategy and if so, what was that . Guest one of the interesting elements is a bit and see where this was going including jim wright. He totally understands what being Newt Gingrich was up to when this was lobbying saying he was the most corrupt person ever he would answer with explanations of what he did and he didnt understand that they were not going to care much about that. Finally, at the kind of climactic moment of the story, he didnt have to reassign. Maybe he should go in but that was a strategy that they thought would work and it didnt work because the whole point is they were not going to stop and they kept going. There were a few democrats but urged the party to be tougher. There was one democrat and they wrote oped at the high point of the scandal saying we have to tell what its about. We dont have to have the speaker resign. But the parties are different. I dont think they are willing to do that and thats part of the challenge they faced. Host that leads to another question. Is it likely that they will have a party or majority leader like mcconnell in the near future . Guest at some level, no because the parties are different and people often ask me why you have republicans why are they so much fiercer in what they are willing to do and i think there is an answer that goes to what they are about meaning democrats believe in government. Its central to their platform and policies and worldviews of the partisanship that is so fierce it undermines the ability of the government to work and that the inability of politicians to craft policies. If that doesnt work well. It makes sense. It always is a. They are more linked to go there and take those risks because they are not dependent on washington working and we see that right now in the middle of this pandemic. It doesnt mean being destructive. I imagine younger democrats they have come of age watching the party. You would think they would be more inclined to use the media more effectively but they will never go to the same place. The parties are just and balanced in that way. Host the person, the politician but can we speak to some of the factors . Guest theres lots for example republicans are doing well and is starting to gain steam on capitol hill because a lot of the corporate world they are starting to recap which under reagan is more sympathetic to what they were looking for to the deregulation tax cuts. One of the arguments in my book is because they dont go far enough in responding to watergate, the Democratic Party is structurally filled with problems. The defense then, since his rise to power there are other elements such as the perfection of gerrymandering and the National Investment to make sure the states are able to craft districts that would solidify. I want to tell a story that focuses on turning points. I spent a lot of my time talking about the factors. Its also about individual leaders. Its about the moments that legitimize the style of politics that might not have been legitimated if it was in a different way and to really hone in on the individuals that mattered at this moment. Could too much partisanship greek both parties . Guest it is a dangerous thing. Some partisanship is good. A lot of people it stands for something then just watered down ideas but if it is the priority and both parties go in that direction, they double down and the democrats say so be it, we are going all out you will just destroy the ability of the institution to work. The policymaking in the pandemic will be gone whether it is a big crisis like the criminal Justice Reform are passing the budget to pay for what it says they were going to pay for. Who would you think that they are grooming to be the next gingrich or mcconnell . Guest obviously there are speakers like ted cruz that still remain a. Of there are also looking outside of the traditional politics they are trying to find new voices and there are younger members like tim scott who are looking for voices and dont simply replicate everything that has been done. Like ted cruz it is a more polished way and right now those are the voices that are being grim. The question from an attendee, did you interview Newt Gingrich your self. My question is are you waiting for his response to the book. Guest i try again each time i had a meeting it was through the secretary that postponed. I did have lunch many years ago when he was at princeton. It was all there in front of me so they have to speak about the book that i actually got a firsthand all the documentation they all have different interpretations and im sure i suspect his view and i suspect he wont disagree with what i wrote. He believe jim wright was corrupt and he will hold to that argument. I am not praising myself going caret yes how he responds. But right now hes focused. Host i have no doubt you will hear from him in time. I thank everybody for coming out. And again, the book is terrific, burning down the house. Its not a collection of the talking story is. Its about Newt Gingrich and a good title and great book. To buy it from the strand, it is in the chat room and they will turn back over to andrea thank you. Host that was wonderful and so much information in an hour. I love it. I know your book was just published, do you have anything else before we sign off . Guest thank you to the strand and kevin and you and everyone who put it together. Thank you for that and i would like to wish you a great evening
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