Be here today and we are so appreciative of it. Tonight i am beyond thrilled to have Morgan Jerkins with us to tolerate the release of her new book wandering in strange lands. Morgan jerkins is the author of the New York Times bestseller this will be my undoing quite thoroughly recommended. And the Senior Editor at sora come shes also a visiting professor at columbia university, her short form work has been featured in the new yorker, New York Times, the atlantic, rolling stone, l, esquire and the guardian among many others, she is based in harlem. Joining morgan and conversation is abborn and raised in jackson mississippi professor of english and creative writing at the university of mississippi the author of the long Long Division and the collection of xrays essays, how to slowly kill yourself and others in america. Also author of the men were heavy, shortlisted for the Andrew Carnegie medal named one of the best books in 2018 by the young defeated, New York Times novel shows weekly, mpr, library journal, washington post, entertainment weekly, the San Francisco chronicle and the New York Times critics. Without further ado, please join me in welcoming morgan and dashed to the stage hello everyone. Whats going on . How are you . Good, how are you. Im so excited to talk to you about this book pham. I wish we couldve done this down south. I know. This is a full circle moment for me because two years ago, maybe two years ago, i was in conversation with you at the brooklyn public library, im thankful now you can be a conversation for my book. You helped me because i mississippi through and through and i lived in new york state in poughkeepsie about 16 years every time i went to the city was always like a first time, i get shaken, i dont feel right to and then people start showing that love. Lets talk about wandering in strange lands, it is such a departure from what you did before and im like, amazed. Can you talk to me about not just how you decided to how you pulled it off but i think a lot of times we dont talk enough about the gumption, what gave you the gumption or the audacity to even think about trying to pull this off. I love that you say audacity, thats wonderful. Let me say something, there was many times throughout this book the writing of the book where i thought i wasnt going to make it. Accent right here on this couch crying because i was like i dont think i can turn around, the records are not giving me any type of conclusion i can work with and i thought they would cancel my book deal. I was like, you know what, its not can work. When i first wrote this would be abfor those of you not familiar with my career i graduated at a Top University and i was trying to become an editorial at a Publishing House or somewhere in media i was not getting a job. I was new at making sometimes to the first and second round. I was devastated. The summer of 2014 i saw so many young people writing content online and paying for it. For most women of color, they found their entry point through virtual essays and often times personal essays are devalued as an art form and so im not trying to shame but i will broke the first book to give shame back in so many ways of what i was taught as a black girl and as a black woman but also because people like roxanne gay show the world you can be a black woman writing about the abthat paved the way for this. Ive always been a curious person, im very close with my family, there will all these different omissions and gaps in the things we did and i was so curious about them. I wanted to investigate that, even though i dont show that, ive always been interested in history, i go down so many different rabbit holes and ive been doing that for years. What i really love, we both abi love how the book is both wandering in strange lands and so much wondering in it, like a wondering about ultimately your people and your father, your father and his people like led you to this journey where you come from you come down south come you leave new york, youre trying to find a part of you. I wonder if its fair to say that you feel like you are going to look for a part of you and are going to look for a part of your father . Absolutely. Im going to keep it real, i was very insecure about where i fit in my fathers life. When i was born the mother and my father were not together anymore. Last i recalled i didnt even know i had three other sisters until i was about seven years older eight years old, i was like now where do i fit in these family trees . When i wrote this book, particularly when i wrote the louisiana section of the book which is where my father is originally from, it was so healing for me. I went walking to the woods and places he hadnt even gone to himself. It was definitely a journey of not only trying to find out the expanses of africanAmerican History but also to find a bit myself, to be recognized on their bad people and i was. It was very very healing for me. One thing i want to say before we keep going, if you have questions you want to ask morgan, make sure to put them in the chat we will try to get to them along the way. We dont get to talk much, probably once or twice a year. I want to ask the hard stuff i want to ask. Im ready. What was your biggest preconceived notion about the south generally and in your imagination before you came down here good to make the distinction between north carolina, kentucky, deep south, louisiana, mississippi, florida, or was it all to you just like south of new york its the south . For me it was like, everything, south to me was the big expanse of land that i knew very little about. Ive been to florida and georgia but florida for leisure, not necessarily for this type of work. The south to me is a rich cultural reason that even though my family comes from that part. This is some stuff i shouldve sent you over text, why did you come back . You know the black people like if you see a white person who looks presumably black you are like, they are black. You know you want to come down here with us. What made you come back up north . I would say because my lease, thats the easy answer. I live in harlem, i think harlem is one of the greatest neighborhoods ever. I dont think abfor example. Ive had dreams of having a second home in st. Mark parish louisiana im trying at this moment to make sure my father does not sell his mothers home a i wondered, you talk about a ai see this in the book, could you talk to us a bit more about how coming down south, not just emboldened you and made you see yourself and your whole family in different ways but did it make you able to see more black southerners him and harlem and new york city . Oh yes, i could feel it. For example, i love detroit. I love detroit. Thats the south though. [laughter] when you meet lack people a awhen you meet black people they got you, the way that northern people dont. It was because of the great migration. I think about chicago and so many black chicagoans, if you ask where is your family from the south, guarantee its for mississippi. For me its like, i see the south everywhere, even if we are not there, theres remnants whether in the food we make, in the dialect or whatever, its still there. There was a quote that really stuck out to me that i think maya angelou said about the south how its bringing people back like a siren call, i feel like thats what it like for me, the whole journey felt like a siren call. One of the things you did so masterfully in this book is you mystified and demystify water and land. You didnt like great writers do come elect the characters people characters help demystify waters and land. Can you talk to the audience about so much about the book me unpacking a lot of my assumptions about black american identity and the reason why i say identity is i didnt know there was identities under the black american experience. I assumed that all black people were afraid of water because thats what i grew up with. Death and water have been intertwined in my generations, we were taught it was because of our hair because abi knew that was okay because even the men who had their hair shaved down, they werent swimming either. My mother grew up in atlantic city, its a barrier island, nobody knew how to swim. I wanted to take a step further and wonder why is that . I spoke to a abwoman in lowcountry georgia, symphony young, abcynthia young, she said thats not true. When i did more abshe said in a documentary, water is a bloodline. If thats the case, if the water is there bloodline for these ethnic group of African Americans with whom we know so much aboh so much, where the separation occur . Separation occurred from many different ways, the separation occurred many west African People were great swimmers. When the Transatlantic Slave Trade happen a lot of them would not let their children go through the water because they freighted with they would be taken away. Transatlantic slave trade, even that journey colby dont know how many enslaved africans are at the bottom of the ocean right now. Some historians say its a floating graveyard, you think about the plantations how treacherous it was, crocodiles, can kill you out the levees and dikes. If you think about the people who migrated to the north, segregated pools, white people had distinction, rich white and poor what, when when the black people came up, then the white people all had to come together to protect themselves. Go to south dakota stucco island, one of the largest Barrier Islands and georgia, the water is poisoned, the water they have is full of lead and maybe think of flint michigan and newark new jersey were all the blacks abthe water can constitute freedom, the river jordan ohio river thats ablated slave territory from free territory abit can represent freedom and transformation and also they buried their peoples face in the water because they believe people go back to africa. A represents all these things but can also represent death and disappearance. He runs the gamut. I wanted to make sure that theres was a check i was most worried about, i told myself, you better nail it. It brings up so many strong emotions and i wanted to really show the complexity of what water constitutes for African Americans who are descendents of enslaved people and how that stretches it stretches its own legacy stemming from institutional forces like segregation but also epigenetics and what the water can do to our lives. Absolutely, fam. Going up down here, like a lot of us have grandparents and parents who died or almost died in lakes and rivers the fear of all the bodies in those lakes is one of the things that terrified us going up. When i got to that part of the book. She researches and finds the majesty, what i call the abundant, you talk about the be abundance in us. I feel like the internet makes these kinds of books less likely because Research People think its push and click in google. You wrote a book about researching you, fam. You wrote a book about researching me, beyond the other book stuff, thank you for doing that. I want to make sure we get to, for people who might not actually read the book, can we talk about the tension. It wasnt just, im going down and this is going to be a tense free exploration, narrating my journey, there were some tense moments in that journey. Can you talk about those bit . So many. Where do i even start, to start with the history of our ancestors, talk about being alone and certain parts in the deep south, i could take it wherever you want me to take it. Lets talk about, i feel like you flipped the isolation portion, can we talk about the tension when you talk about books that might not be made like this, im a millennial i know how the internet can be a great place for conversation ive said this before i know what its like to have my work taken out of context made only for public humiliation, not for conversation the one thing i want to say to start this off is like we say all the time im not my ancestors and all the time the concept is, im stronger than ever. Im not really my ancestors, what does that really mean . What does that mean for black people trying to provide in ways that we might did not deem acceptable or comfortable in the present day. I tell people all the time, im proud of the Public School system, it was the Transatlantic Slave Trade, it was slavery, it was emancipation, it was the harlem renaissance, it was civil rights and that obama. Thats it. Was never taught there were free people of color, i was never taught there were black slave owners. They still participated in the plantation economy but we dont want to talk about those things was that was hard because i taught was black people were on the further end of the spectrum regarding white people in order to access that. We are completely disenfranchised from it. To come across that in my family or families of others of black people participating in the plantation athey profited wildly out of it. That was very uncomfortable for me. Thats why wanted to elaborate to tell people, you think this makes you mad, this makes me mad too. Theres a lot of portions of the book read it feel mad but i definitely felt like you were complicating history that even some of us know and live, im from mississippi deep deep but i still felt like you were showing me different ways portals of entry into what i consider myself. I want to talk about some of the interpersonal, we talk about the north can we talk about the south can we have to talk about interpersonal relationships. I say hey to everybody if someone looks at me im going to look you back in the eye, not everybody, then that is not what everybody does, lets just say in new york city. Can you talk about the folkways and interpersonal folkways were different or similar to what you imagine when you came down south. I knew that black people looked down for me in a way im not sure what habit i felt like i was protected in a way thats really hard to describe if you dont believe in the divine and you dont believe in spirits but i felt it. Every time i got in my car every time i finished with another person, i even had some people say to me, the reason why i spoke to you about this opened up to you about this was because either ancestors told me or i knew something about you that you were doing was genuine because some of the communities i ventured into theyd already been taken advantage of. I was already in a very precarious position. Thats what i was hoping we could get to, im glad we got to it, can you talk about what how what you did necessitates ethics . I would say love a black people, youre coming into communities that have been mined for resources and mind i think personal resources not just communal resources can you talk about the rules you set for yourself, i think they are love rules but the ethics you set for yourself as someone going into these places that has traditionally been mined. I told myself start doing preliminary research first, lord of the schaumburg part of the New York Public Library system and start researching the community before you even talk to them. Dont waste their time and asked them some abquestions, but you are black but you dont know these people and you are going down to the south so its like reach out to them first before you trap, reach out to them months before you travel and say hello my name is so and so this is who i am this is my website this is my publisher and this is the book deal so you know this isnt a room and i spoke to them on the phone, and let them know any time i recorded a show the recorder right in front of me, put it on the table so they would know the recorder and see when i turn it on and see me when i shut it off. The thing is about with ethics is that you have to be very careful with black people, especially the theme i cover is traumatic to talk about. Anytime i had a conversation with them or whether at a restaurant in the water and somebody i always made sure i go to the back door of the conversation, i may not ask you head on, how much acres did you lose . What happened to this cousin that was lynched, all these different things. Start by asking their name. Asked them about their parents. Tell me what life is like here and how its changed and then thats when the stories start to really manifest on their own is if you go to like you mentioned the portals of entry, i always tell my students, there are many ways to which to enter a story thats what i think about the architecture of memory, you might not abgo to the back door go through any type of window that can open, you will see some type of lightly working to get otherwise, thats what i do in terms of ethics is take multiple steps before these people Start Talking to you, make sure they know who you are but i also say that even though im ai could be seen as part of the establishment, i live in new york, i work with a traditional publisher, i could be seen as the enemy. I also think what helps is that im a young woman. Im a woman. Im a woman, im bossy, tall, and people tell me, abi have a very disarming smile, i think that puts a lot of people at ease because i wasnt coming up with whole team that sometimes had people with me when i was talking to them and they knew people in the communities but when youre a tall young woman with aball she has a little recorder in front of her what can i do . I know what you are saying. Do you feel like any people you met, some of this is leading questions because i want to hear you talk about abthe people that you met were actually still not sure of how close to let you in. All the time there were older black men, they want to know what is the information used for . I will say this, not a Single Person i spoke to in my book wanted to have a student and i thought that was incredible so any of you who by my book, which i hope you do, i urge you to look them in the acknowledgment section because some of these people risk their lives to show me certain things. So yes i was really thankful for that. One of the other things i found when i was working on interviewing people, and i met people who done all sort of abusive and violent stuff but at the end of the day they were like make sure when you describe me you let them know i use the word yes. It wasnt like that, you know what i said, i wanted to let people hear these people speak as much as possible, i will tell you how i feel, i will explain the best i can but that was one of the hard parts for me, i realized how detached i was from the land when i couldnt name simple things. We would drive past these acres and i couldnt tell you how many, like many speeches abi didnt have the language for it. Often times when i get back home i would look at pictures and i would have to do additional work because i would reach out to people and say, whats the name of this so i can describe it as much as i could end. Im interested, the book just came out, you literally havent been able to sit and what it means for this book, in this version of Morgan Jerkins to be out in the world yet. Im interested in what the anxiety of releasing this book in this moment versus the anxiety of creating the book precovid. Can you talk a bit about that . For me im just glad i got the book done. There was so much fear that my book was given that cancel. Records were not coming, there was so many loose ends as you might imagine dealing with black ancestors. For me i did not expect her to come out, i did not expect to it, as the george floyd protest happen. For me what you said is so spot on, not many people know this public side of me, they know me as this intensely personal ab they are not looking at me like this is a researcher, somebody abi can say the short answer was like, im a gemini and as long as i have a career youre to see different types of styles coming from my body of work, for as long as i can get another book deal, you are going to see many different faces what im gonna say. For me its anxious because its like, a privilege and blessing of being a black female artist given the ability to try. So many black female artist just want a chance and endeavor, not to make these Resolute Solutions but the endeavor to make a day got something coming to excavate something, i tell people all the time i have the privilege of having a book deal to allow me to do the research. It cost me somewhere close to 10,000 15,000 to do the research, i was able to do that because i had a book deal that allowed me to do the work. I think for me its like it makes me anxious because ive always wanted to expand. Always want to keep people on guard and i want people to take another chance on me after this will be abi was so afraid after the sophomore like on the New York Times bestseller list out the part, i was 25 years old, what if i will not be able to activate people like that again so far i feel like im forced to in terms of the reception its been very overwhelming. Im just thankful. For me i was like, the type of coverage ive gotten for this book i feel like is any writer would dream to have come of this has exceeded my expectations. I just feel like we need to make sure people understand the political integrity of a black woman wandering. The expectation is to not let black girls and black women wander, you let people know from the job, im wandering in strange lands, but also a daughter of the great migration. You also are the daughter of spirits, spirituality and spirituality guide you a lot. Im a christian, a group pentecostal, pentecostal people are very ecstatic, emotional, superstitious and, like i said, its palpable in the south, its heavy, pun intended, like your book, its heavy. And there is so much they are just wasted through the air and i felt that in tandem with the mugginess of the heat of the lowcountry or the dry climate of oklahoma. You could feel it that there is so much to parse through. For me i knew i was being protected because there were certain times were like i shouldve gotten hurt for the ways in which i went into territories that were not my own, but nothing but a pocketbook, a cell phone, recorder and prayer, nothing else. Had told someone i was like, if i had to do my research again, im not going to lie, i probably wouldve carried a weapon, i probably wouldve carried a gun or taken a selfdefense class because i was just there, to this day on what, how did i do that . I know i was protected, no one could tell me otherwise. I feel that. I just want to reiterate, get your questions and come want to make sure you get a chance to actually speak to morgan too. Somebody here right, abSarah Gonzales, ill writer. One of the things i really was interested in talking about is like when im in harlem i can feel the south. I dont know if i can feel my particular self like the deep mississippi south, i can feel the ethos of the south. But i wonder if new york and your new york needs more south needs more black american southernisms like more, i know they already exist but i wonder if there could be even more. There always could be more. For me like i looked at, used to live on little senegal, when i stepped out my building i used to hear nothing but french. I think about sylvia and jacob abthere always needs to be more, i think even more now because of the rapid gentrification thats happening we always need more in the south, not just new york, new jersey, where im from, new england, we always need more. This resume is like a cake. I love the cakes. Keep talking about the love of the south. This is from jeni mayberry, what was your mothers reaction to your interest in pursuing your fathers roots . Was she apprehensive about what she might uncover about the things the two of you would be left to run the self together . My mother has always been supportive about our family tree, whats interesting, i dont think i couldve told her this but i wrote it in the book, when i was born my daughter called me abmy daughter called me the milkmans baby i thought it was because i was like, then when i would hear it from other people like because you dont know who your father is and what, thats not true. It filled me with a lot of shame but then i started to read Toni Morrison and salt of solomon, the main character is milkman dad come he goes to find his roots. Then when i was researching my fathers i learned about one of my earliest ancestors and i save in the english version, mattern region, he had two families just like my father on the other side one side on the bayou, on this side of the bayou the other one on the bright side abwhen i told my cousin about it she said he was definitely the milkman when she said that i was like i am the milkmans baby. Complicated, naughty, beautiful altogether. Im lucky to have parents that supported me through this journey, reached out to them well is traveling and it showed me that i have just as much of this standing is my mothers family as my father standing so when you say what i have left to reconcile together . I wasnt built with the reconciliation, always looking for revelation. Sometimes you cant reconcile everything. Sometimes you might not have 100 of the full truth. To have something to pass on to my children, i hope this book can be a document and a blessing to them. That was the best thing, all i could do was endeavor. I love it. This person said, this will be my doing in the book, my second finish reading it, im 50 pages and im loving it, did you share portion the book that were based on interviews with the people you spoke to before it was published . Sure did every single thing i wrote i said, here, you can look at it. I also asked them, do you want your name published . They all looked at it and some of them even thanked me, thanked me for letting me have the book and they didnt want to change anything besides the fact check stuff and they were thankful like thank you for telling my story like this ive never had so many telling the story, i was fortunate enough to get an expert in Time Magazine of a black woman the First Responder to the lapd for the watts riots, i also had an expert in the New York Times about a man on hilton head and both of these people were like crying when i told him about this i realize this is the work i do, bring black people stories to the forefront. That type of response is invaluable to me. Im old now. The other day somebody was like, when did that come out, i was like that was just eight years ago, but when i was 30 you figure 8 years ago your baby almost, its amazing that you wrote this book it seems like it didnt take that long. It felt long but come of the book i announce the book deal it got published summer of 2020. Nicole says, how can we make genealogy more accessible . Its an expensive and laborintensive endeavor especially for black people. There needs to be Funds Available for sure. As i mentioned, it was 10 15,000 to do this type of work. I know ancestry. Com they have different types of models you can sign onto, archives. Com is another but as far as genealogy, look to the oldest people in your family, ask them where were they born and when were they born, if they were born in a town other than the one you are, ask why they moved . Then you can find out about families and all that but as far as genealogy theres many different chapters on states, afroamerican genealogical societies, some renting in virginia, pennsylvania, utah, texas, there is not one in mississippi i found, which is crazy i would say i believe there needs to be Funds Available for people like myself who dont have any certified background just to try endeavor. The questions are coming and coming, and want to make sure we get everybody. Did you ever feel conflicted about putting peoples intimate stories in the book did you feel a sense of detachment most of you are in the role of anthropology did you feel pride the people you talk to identified with them . I didnt feel conflicted putting peoples personal stories into the bookbecause the book was so personal. When i first started to write the first draft of the book i did not put my family story and, i didnt even interview them. I wanted to create the start of authoritative observer and i realized because the work of a you dont have to be an observer, you can journal, chronicle, and be subjective at the same time. For me i did feel conflicted because these people gave their consent with talking about it, i showed them what the text what i was writing and i learned that its okay to merge folklore and documented facts when it comes to black people because a lot of our lives are fantastic and i dont mean that in a superhuman way, as for so many ways in which we were not to survive and we still have. So i did feel conflicted when i put in my family story and found that acre and shows how we are all in constant dialogue with each other. This question says. When i mean free i dont just mean legally free i mean the fray way to live however i choose to do it unabashedly i write about shame so much because i used to carry a lot of shame. Writing as a way to unpack its a way for me to scrutinize and away from you to release. I have a question about shame, people asked me about shame and i dont get to ask anybody else about it. Do you feel like because im with you, im with you about trying to get to the root of the shame and hopefully lifting that off of us and for artists untangling it in the art. You feel like there is any is there any sort of shame thats actually generative for you any sort of shame that protects you from experience as you might not be protected from . I have never gotten that answer before, i think my mom was actually in this she would say yes and i want to say yes, i dont know if its shame, maybe adam omission, like a warning, a lot of times i would be caught like you dont know people like that or dont let anybody abcoming in the way of superstition, im not sure like shame but when i think of shame may devalue myself or suppress my intuition, in terms of warning, absolutely. I want to make sure we get them all, Sharon Gonzales ab Sarah Gonzales is giving you big props for your chapter on water, she said to do do Supplemental Research for generational trauma for the book, the second question is sarah says i found out when when i was seven i had other siblings, to the book help you process that part of your personal journey generational trauma, Supplemental Research, two people abshe writes about generational trauma when it comes to Holocaust Survivors and their children, that is something that also doctor joy debris, she does a post traumatic slave disorder, which is someone i think two individuals i suggested we should research but also the genetics period, if you want to know about how generation trauma shows up, thats a great thing to look at. The book help me process about learning about other siblings, yes. Definitely. Learning about the fathers that preceded him, i was like i am right where i belong. [laughter] ken williams said, how might one overcome family resistance and or disinterest to genealogy research, i wanted to research my family tree for years my older relatives have historically stonewalled me. I would say this, do you have their names . If you have their names and you know where they were born, you might have an inkling of where they were born or an estimate of where they live or their birthdates go to ancestry. Com. If youve got something of those details you could start filling the pieces aside from them. You dont have all the relatives, ask their children, ask their childrens children. Go to the next person down, ask their sibling. Anyway you can find that door i told you about, the back door the cover open window, always work around. I think the workaround is connected to the other question ken asks do you swear by writing routine and schedule orders writing and editing come easy . It depends. For me i told writers all the time i tell my students, you do not need to write all day long, a lot of us dont have the ability to write all day long, where is your stride . My stride is Early Morning, you can talk to me about anything from the hours of 6 30 a. M. To like noon, thats usually when i write is in the Early Morning, because the protests that were happening you know i was up until 2 00 a. M. Then i would go to bed wake up at 7 00 a. M. It was still popping off, people just, i had to download an app called selfcontrol from you download it you put the sites you dont want to go to commode rogers twitter for me and you lock the time you put three hours its not going to reverse the until the three hours is not. Usually i edit at night. When it comes to writing i write in the Early Morning midmornings. That morning feels like the screen between subconscious and unconscious the screens in the morning seemed bigger. Also in the regular time people still getting rest, they dont want to pop it off yet, people still getting ready so that the perfect time for me to be like, im going to jump in and do this before i start interacting with people on twitter. [laughter] this is a ab question the mix of memoir and historical writing is so powerful as a writer and high school teacher, history teacher, i am energized by people running their own personal Community History i heard you mention your students as well, wondering if you have any advice for doing this work with you . Tell them to write stuff down. Im not just talking about the internet, ask your students, if they create a narrative about themselves what they say . Where were they born, or some traditions they had, what other siblings name . What are their parents names and then say, how about the town in which you were born, give me some facts, go to research what was it that town like . I found out that my maternal grandfather grew up in south jersey, what i did some research i found out that was a town created by freed slaves so ask them, wheres the town you are from, those sorts of things. When it comes to working with youth, i figured, one of things i like to do is holistic teaching, sometimes people just need confidence. Sometimes young people just need to realize what they have to say matters. Its very easy to feel insignificant i think whats really important when youre telling students to decipher historical writing is to let them know their life is in a larger social fabric in American History, their individual life and that it is important and that someones going to be looking for them one day to make sense of the history thats happening right now. Once you start to encourage them that what they have to say matters, and it is going to matter to someone come about so when once you break that seal, thats when the flood happens. And the memory happens and then you can go with the later part of how to narrative isaac and how to structure it. As long as you build the first porch that what they say matters and validates, they will start to open up. In this book is literally a howto and a lot of us teachers talk about narrative rising the encounter, a lot of times students want to talk about they read the research here they just want a Place Research and writing and one thing i always tell them is narrative eyes the encounter. Talk about the encounter with the thing abthis is what you do over and over again, narrative eyes the encounter with family, strangers and regions with elements, with the books. A lot about friendship in this moment. This is the last question, one more question. Those family myths that unraveled and you learned were not true . Its weird, like what were some of the oldest things i realize have some veracity to them, its actually the opposite. That was with regards to my mothers side of the family saying that we had cherokee ties. That was something that was very difficult to unpack, the relationship blackness and indigenous people. Actually spoke to scholars including tia miles, who was contributed to them at 6019 project who also spent her life researching these ties and i asked her, come on, all of our grandparents lying . Are all my grandparents under this collective allusion when these tribes originated from the south in the own slaves . She was like, no they are not. If theyre not all lying, how to make sense of that . Im not can i say anything because i dont want to spoil it. Please read the book. I been thinking about radical friendship, i been thinking about my relationship with brooks as a young person books were not my friend they seem like stodgy old folks, white folks, white authors i had to read but reading this book and rereading this book during a pandemic it felt like a rigorous loving friendship, not trying to reduce your book to a friend, its not reduction but if you go along with me for a second, if you see this as like a complicated creation of a friend who might walk with different people, this walked with me, it helped me wake up, it helped me stay awake, and help me want to push my own work the way i think radical friendship does. How would you describe this book if it were a friend and what you want this book friend do for readers . I wanted readers to feel like friends to me because i was alone and so many different areas and i wanted to bring people into the space. So it was doing to me on not only intellectual level but emotional level, when i do this abtake about this book, this book is my gift first and foremost for my family, for my future children, as they know they never have the question their space and their claim to this american landscape that they can trace their ancestors back 300 years prior to even some parts so you knives you louisiana they can trace their family back that far thats a blessing for me. I think this book, what i wanted to be was a document. It cant be that end all be all but what i want people to see is that the cycles that happen when black people want to move when black people want to exert their economy, the backlash that happens, whether its state violence, land displacement, whether cultural erasure, these things keep happening so for anybody that has an interest in African American history or American History in general if anyone has a history of reparation, if anybody can abwhy do these things keep happening im not understanding the centuries old legacy of this, this book is free, this book can be your friend so to speak. When you speak to radical possibilities, i see this as this book for me means so much because its my baby but also i want people to feel the pulse come i want them to see the blood and veins going through all of this and understand that past and present will keep converging if we do not reconcile the magnitude of the devastation brought to African Americans that African American families since the beginning of this country but also the beauty and the triumph that in spite of all these ways to separate us through time and distance through laws and statutes we are still here. Drop that mike, thats it. Thank you all so much for coming out, i want to thank the strand for be an incredible lover of books, morgan, thank you for doing some stuff i just could never do. Im inspired to do, you blessed us, i know it was a legacy book for your family but you blessed us, thank you so much. Thank you, im such a fan of this, i was so thankful he had time to make time for me, thank you to the bookstore for having me, thank you all to all the people that tuned in, i hope it was very interesting that you also have heavy. Thank you all. Here are some of the current bestselling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal, topping the list, fox news host sean hannity argues a Democratic Victory in 2020 would lead to socialism and economic strife in live free or die after that in too much and never enough resident trumps niece mary trump takes a critical look at the president and his family. Pulitzer prize winning author Isabel Wilkerson abfollowed by finding freedom, on the significance of prince harry and Meghan Markles marriage. Wrapping up our look of the bestselling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal have the brown county how to be an antiracist where he argues that america must choose to be antiracist and work toward building a more equitable society. Most of these authors have appeared on booktv, you can watch them online at booktv. Org. During a virtual author event hosted by townhall seattle cultural writer katie rife you look at how women experience and manage part or dominant power. This is a photograph, very famous photograph, taken in 1950 by the photographer art shea and as you can see shes in her 40s she is getting ready and in the bathroom, wearing very high heels, i dont know if you can see them, shes ab somehow this photograph is always obsessed me and its the contradictions of it, the fact that shes wearing heels but shes naked she wasnt really she didnt technically give her permission for this photograph, but she did leave the door open with this strange man who was the photographer and he says, he heard the clicking and kind of like naughty boy shouldnt really care. You see her not caring that the world is seeing her in this intimate moment the two things that inspire this book from that photograph are both maybe its okay to show yourselves and that kind of intimate unguarded moment like the real self, the real you and that was one thing about the photograph, the other thing about the photograph that interest me kind of showing women and all their contradictions, the kind of weird jarring fact that shes putting her hair up and wearing heels but naked all the contradictions of who she is in that moment, like a brilliant feminist intellectual like a woman getting ready in the mirror and all that contradiction goes into being self interested made in this book. The second thing that inspired the book also related, something she said one of her biographers asked her was talking about her relationship with abfor those of you who dont know much about it, she was very, they had an open relationship, it was very tormented she was extremely obsessed with them her whole life but they mutually have this open relationship but she basically wanted more than him abwanted more of him and he wanted from her cupboard she would rather be letters saying without you i mutilated, she said her relationship with him famously was her greatest achievement which irked a lot of people because she was such a Brilliant Writer and philosopher. So her biographer asked her, she said what you say to feminists who say that your relationship with sartre was out ads with your feminist theories and he looked at her and said, well, im sorry to disappoint the feminists but i just dont give a dam, i live how i wanted and its too bad so many of them live in theory and not real life. I found that quote so interesting maybe the concept of disappointing the feminists partly because i had disappointed the feminists for many decades. Also the idea of the gap between theory and life that you could be somebody who lived subjugated euros so in your relationship to a man but also this incredibly power person in your work and life and in your intellectual achievements, that paradox i think is at the heart of this book, which really obsesses a lot over the questions of how, and i look at my own life very frankly in this book, how sometimes you are strong and successful and sometimes you are not. To watch the rest of the discussion visit our website and search katie royce he or the title of her book the power notebooks. In the past several months whenever i told people we would have this opportunity to spend three hours together the first thing they say when i say your name is rabbit. Someone as her opening just indicated who has so prolific is it a joy to create a character that is so wellknown or is this something other than that for you. You to join and very grateful to rabbit for the prizes and the fact that the books are a pleasure to write if i remembered, its been a while since everyone but after ten years he was ready and i had him named and i had his wife and