Will leave this program to go live to a conversation with florida senator marco rubio. Good morning. Im bob costa, National Political reporter here at the Washington Post. Welcome to Washington Post live in another special any for the Texas Tribune festival. Today my guess is senator marco rubio, republican of florida. Hes been summit ive been covering for over a decade since he first ran for the use senate back in 2010. Senator rubio, thanks thanks for being your. Good morning. Thanks for having me. We are 49 days away from the election. You serve as chairman of the Senate Select committee on intelligence. From that seat what is the biggest threat to our president ial election in terms of foreign interference . I think first we have to break up foreign interference into two categories. One is meddling and the actual architecture and mechanics of election. And then the other is sort of af the message, sort of the psychological operations and a war for design to divide against each other. In terms of putting messages come that yearround. What there addresses this would produce a look at all the preexisting fractures in our society and they push on that. They use social media increasingly what youre seeing is there using, they will create a website somewhere. They may even hire americans to write on the website and put that out there as real news content. Thats an ongoing challenge and that is yearround all the time. Thats going to continue to be developing over the years to come and the three is if you get a country to fight each other intimately, which would abridge a pretty good job ourselves, you try that, it weakens that country and society overtime. Thats the first part. The second, and its related to the first is, can i miss with elections . People think about as chemically change votes . Is probably the hardest thing to do any meaningful way to influence the outcome of the election. More concerning to me is a situation where you can get into accounting elections eight counties election system, to delete voters and to strategically so all the voters are from one party so you pick a democratic county where a democratic Election Officials, but republicans of the once when the show to vote are not allowed. Allowed. Even though the get a provisional ballot and your vote will be counted this narrative will get out there that republicans not being allowed to vote, or vice versa. Then if its a close election you then use your influence operation to promote the narrative that in some parts of the county, in some parts of the country in certain counties partisan Election Officials were preventing democrats or republicans or people from a certain racial ethnic makeup from voting. All that designed to create chaos and questions about the legitimacy of the election. That would be their dream and that would be the biggest achievement that any adversary ever scored against us in an election cycle is just bring us to the point where people, we believe, half the country believes person whos going to be sworn in was not validly illegitimately elected. Its a great threat to our republic and the way i tell people to think about the 2000 election, but on steroids. 50 times worse than that, breaking out of multiple places and it will not be about hanging chads. It would be whether someone was cheating on purpose. Its a deep concern and our adversaries who have the capability to do and at least three with intent to do it to some level. You mention state websites take websites and fake accounts. His book removed some of those things that were created by russian operatives. What new can you share in the final lap of the campaign about what russia is up to in terms of meddling . Its if ill be on that and if ill be on russia. Its not just about fake account where it is a bot that has a name on it and a facebook account. Im talking about you create website, create some news agency or some sort on the internet and it really is promoted and sponsored by a fake. You hire some americans who willingly or unwillingly use it to write up stories that look like news reports. Then you get people to organically spread it online as real news. That spreads. I think thats one of the challenges all of us need to be aware of is just because it looks like a News Organization doesnt necessarily become one. We have reached a point now where its difficult to distinguish, and ill be frank, with all due respect a lot of americans already question the mainstream outlets. They view them as places where they promote notice, not news stories. Its this huge model people are naturally drawn to report that further the preexisting notions and that affirmative preexisting beliefs that become attractive for people to read articles, even if its a source you never heard of, to read articles that confirm your preexisting bias on policies. Thats an ongoing threat but its one that we will see sort of a difference what we seen in the past. Is the russian government stoking Racial Division at the time on social media . Yeah, i dont think theres any doubt russia, iran, china, particularly iran and russia are constantly in search of what our fractures, what are things to get americans fighting against each other . It helps them by weakening as internally. The more were at each others throats in this country the less capably art of governance internally or around the world. But it also helps russia and some extent i ran domestically where they see these of the people that are lecturing us about democracy and freedom, and they are chaos, they are destroying each other. This is what socalled democracy at least the version of the western version of it looks like. Its a twofer. It helps them by weakening as and then helps them geopolitically but it also helps him domestically by going to people and say this is our system of governance, but it didnt be the american system because look whats happening over there, they write, they are incapable of doing anything, fighting with each other all the time and so theres no doubt if theres anything that is deeply divisive in america, they dont create but they will drive it, do everything they can to drive it. Beyond russias youve mentioned china and iran. Weve done a lot of coverage of russian interference, someone chinese interference. Can you share any specifics to help us learn more about the extent of chinese interference in the election . I think when it comes to china i would look at their tactics and the goals are a little different. Chinas gold what i think, i dont have any doubt in my mind that china doesnt want donald trump to be reelected, i think they measure that against i concerned that their involvement is revealed, they will, that would be counterproductive for them. But ultimately chinas approach and its not new. Using american corporations of big business interest in china, they unleashed upon the american political process and the use leverage to in that regard, but the chinese gold is to try to influence american goal towards chinas preferred position. That could eventually extend to going after individual candidates in an election. It takes all sorts of form, from punishing a Congressional District that would trade measures all the way they have the capability of doing everything russia does and more so. They have hacked and leak capabilities. We can foresee them when they use that against individuals they view as china hardliners and what have you. They have the ability to do it and its just a question of, and we really wouldnt see the intent to do it properly until after its been done. But they have the capability to do everything russia does and more capabilities than russia in cases. More capability than iran and its just a question deciding how far they want to go and because it do think not that they are more measured because they worry more about backlash if their hands is revealed. They can be more cautious. I have been reading many of your recent speeches and theres a comet or refrain from this phase common good capitalism. If you took the praise and applied it to your work as chairman of the Intelligence Committee you do support the free market but should social Media Companies like facebook be more regulated with all of these threats from abroad . Thats a great question because its a new question. Are they a publisher or are they a content site . I think they have, thats a good question, heres the problem, theres a complexity that races. What is the fine line between foreign interference and narratives on social media that are domestic, but that may not be true . The truth of the matter is as an american the First Amendment does give you the right to say things that are not true. Obviously there are limits to that, if its going to cause panic or cause people to hurt each other, you cant do the proverbial screaming fire in a movie house with you did. But that said the problem, when you start going after the speech of political figures because they dont agree with their political narrative, then it gets complicated. Its a tough to talk about. I certainly think eventually its a nation will have to grapple with. My view of it is for the most part they have tried to be a . Of going after it come some more than others particularly facebook is been more aggressive about identifying foreign sources of false information and trying to eliminate them from those platforms. Whether the regulation would make it closer is something im always cautious about because im not sure in the end we can define or closely regulate how that content is dealt with. I would much prefer to enter into a collaborative compact with him that clearly delineates the difference between domestic political speech and for efforts to interfere or spread propaganda within our country. I dont have a tough one to work through. I do think however social Media Companies are going to get into the business of being publishers where theyre going to edit out information they want in first is not and then they should be treated as as a publisher inclg for purposes of liability. If something would have to grapple with. I dont have all the answers on it but certainly recognize the problem i think were making some headway on some spots. You brought up just down the challenges on the domestic front, which are happening in your own state, this qanon Conspiracy Theory i was reading an article the other day, eduardo, pollster Florida International university in your state said the Latino Community in florida is dealing with a quote on slot of issues related to this qanon conspiracy that is spreading around florida. Are you alarmed about that inside your state . More broadly, in the u. S. I would say two things. I dont think those conspiracy theories will have anything to do with the outcome. In many cases the things that been promoted out there are all theyre doing is as i said reaffirming peoples preexisting positions on politics. As far as conspiracies are concerned, this one in particular yes, it is ridiculous, stupid to some extent and very dangerous. 1 thing is to see these things out there and take it for what it is. Another is have some of who already has some challenges and sees this stuff and decides to take action and somebody could get hurt. That part about it concerns me very much my deeper concern is we are a society and a country in which people are vulnerable to this sort of thing. At the core of every Conspiracy Theory is a fear, the fear that fear is what drives this and so weve reached this point the fear, insecurity in a country where people are likely to believe some ridiculous Conspiracy Theory than they are what they see reported of what their leaders tell us. Really is a warning to both leaders and those to those whot the news about how important it is that they do Everything Possible to build up and protect and secure the credibility both for those of us in Public Service and those of us who report on our work. Because in the absence of it leave a section of a population vulnerable to what could in some cases be very dangerous, in some cases stupid but many of the cases very dangerous conspiracy theories that could lead an already deranged person to take violent action against someone because they believe that person was a pedophile or when a child sex ring or something along those lines. Senator rubio, when my question here on election security. You have seen this complaint, whistleblower complaint from senior dhs official saying that in short, he was pressured by the white house by dhs to stop providing intelligence analysis on the threat of russian interference. You are here in this interview today have a candid conversation about interference. As chairman of the Intelligence Committee have you ever heard about the white house or acting secretary freshening officials by analyst not to say certain things on russian interference . No. I havent come and have seen in the reporting either. Everything ive seen and all the work done but all of our been pretty straightforward. And to the point on all of these things including the Public Disclosures who have been, they have been identified by name and sanctioned an individual in ukraine. The sort of russian efforts. That said, there is a process in the law for whistleblower complaint is handled, it is referred when its revealed to congress, the commission has jurisdiction in this case our scope its an intelligence matter, we have a process for handling it so we begin the process. As us and we handle this way we will handle any whistleblower complaint the comes forward. We are going to it seriously, run it by the book at our staff is already working audit and well get to the end conclusion on it after we done that work. So we will treat any whistleblower complaint that way and the process has already begun. Lets trim back to this tension between your freemarket conservatism that shape the early part of your career and still does to some extent, engineer focus on china. When you speak about this i give, good capitalism and you look at the pandemic, should the u. S. Be doing more to ask pharmaceutical companies and ppps manufacturers to produce goods and products ppe in the United States . So first of all i think the final question is why do have a market and an economy. The purpose of our country and people to serve the market and economy or is the purpose of the economy in the market to serve people . I think the answers so obvious. The economy is the means. The ends of the wellbeing of her country. Im a supporter of Free Enterprise and capitalism because i believe it is the best system to deliver the best results for our people and for our country and for the common good of our nation. That said, i recognize freemarket one of the things i love the Free Enterprise is and will always reach the most sufficient outcome. It will allocate capital to the most sufficient use. And oftentimes thats a great benefit to the United States of america. Every now and then it is not, it is not in the best interest of her country, the most efficient use of capital is to make pharmaceuticals in china or to make certain manufacturing combats certain Manufacturing Company overseas. But thats not always in the best interest of the United States. Its not in our best interest to depend on china or any other country for that matter for an overwhelming percentage of the active pharmaceutical ingredient in our genetic medicine or personal protective equipment. And i would extend that in our best interest to depend on china for significant percentage of a Rare Earth Minerals that we need for technology or our manufacturing and installation capabilities and telecommunications and in 5g. In those instances in which the most sufficient outcome is not in the best interest of our country that is working as an obligation in my view to create incentives for the private market and for Free Enterprise to do that activity within the United States. And sometimes that best interest is because of national security. Sometimes that is because the jobs that industry creates are the kinds of jobs that allow people to raise a family and have Strong Communities that they are part of, and thats good for the country, too. But senator rubio, lets say that these tax breaks or incentives for companies, pharmaceutical companies to stay in the United States, and a working americans is why do these Companies Give enormous tax breaks now to stay in the United States and my Small Business doesnt get the same kind of basement level tax breaks . Well again it was not necessarily geared towards the large company. For example, one of the things we try to do to my chairmanship and Small Business committee is find ways for more sba programs to be about making it possible for smaller and new companies to enter that space and create competition. What i would argue those incentives are already in place our laws already incentivize Large Businesses to do things. We have for example, incentivize them to move manufacturing overseas and then friendship ts back into the United States with the Free Trade Agreement at very low prices. Some make goods for less somewhere else and send it into the United States for sale. We already have incentives that i am kissing incentives are the wrong ones. People are going to incentivize behavior issue the behavior that is good for behavior in behavior that is good for american jobs to be created because thats what would help our country be stronger and our communities be stronger. Ideally theres a role to play, for example, by modernizing as i tried to do and we are trying to do the reauthorization of the Small Business administration into a 21st Century Agency that tries to create a pathway to help small and new companies into the spaces where they can provide either as the primary manufacture, primary company, or as a subcontractor to the Larger Company involved in that deal. Senator rubio, you may china a real concentration made. The u. S. Ambassador to china, terry branstad, he is stepping down. Who should be the next ambassador and should it be a hardliner on china or someone who is more agreeable with the Chinese Communist party . Ill tell the its not going to be me. I guarantee you. But all kidding aside about that come thats a tough assignment but but a very, very important one. Look, im not antichina. Im not even consider myself hardliner. Im a realist. China is rich and powerful country. It will be a rich and powerful country for the rest of my lifetime, the rest of his lifetime and my grandkids that dont even exist lifetime. Thats the reality. 20 for since will be defined by the relationship between the United States and china, it will either be a relationship of conflict even potential military conflict or it will be a balanced relationship between two great powers but i want the the letter. Thats not the direction were headed. We made the decision in this country a long time ago that we thought once china get rich and prosperous that it would become more democratic and would geared to fairs in in the law and International Relations and international congress. That is not worked out that we pick a terrible mistake. That now needs to be rebalanced. Weve allowed them to our own needs to deindustrialization we came up with the stuff should we be the place that innovates and it would be the place that builds but we forgot eventually the place that makes things is also the place that innovates them. We need to be a place that does both. Its an important moment for rebalancing in this relationshi relationship. We are almost too late to it. If it feels like overly aggressive its because were trying to make up for 15, 20 years of the states all at once. This work of rebalancing the relationship with china is not the work of one administration or one congress. Its the work of a generation. This will take 20 or 30 years to get right. I believe were beginning to hit in the right direction on it. Since this is a focus for you, is it any name, one or two names you would recommend . I dont right now. Maybe i will come up with one eventually i hope it will be someone that has a sort of you in mind. In china they see what kind hold them back. Thats not the goal at all. Its not about Holding China back. Its about ensuring their rise does not come at our expense. Particularly selfinflicted expense, in essence if chinas rise necessarily mean the destruction of Americas Industrial ways and Manufacturing Base and millions of americans live with lowpaying jobs and communities that are hollowed out, thats not something we can expect except if chinas rise as the one that doesnt come at our expense. You want a situation where two great powers in china and the United States who have a balance working relationship but thats not what we are today and it takes time to get to the point and thats not the direction were headed up until very recently and hope we can turn that around. What about holding them to account . In the bob woodward book theres numerous sections about how the Deputy National security adviser, dr. Redfield at the cdc, or raising red like after red flag about china not sharing full information with the u. S. Government, yes, President Trump took some action but the President Trump do enough to address china early on with the pandemic . Will come as you we implemented the travel ban, he was immediately accused by joe biden and others of xenophobia and criticized for doing that. I thought that was the right move. Look, im not telling you its easy. This is a complex geopolitical situation where its a broad relationship with china that has implications that are too extensive to cover in one interview. That said, i think theyve been pretty aggressive about it in hindsight. I think early on it wouldve been important to sort of demand what i would prefer to see is that early on it within said that there is this virus come with no idea of the extent it is spreading, we have no notion of not sharing information about the bible mark that will allow researchers to begin to work on it. Theres no doubt like any totalitarian regime the default position of the Chinese Government to try to cover up and protect their image. Also true totalitarian regimes is that bad news is not rewarded. You are not rewarded for being the mayor or local official that goes to beijing and warns about the outbreak. There is no reward for that built into the system. The result is the world has paid a price for china actively told, they told countries run world not to implement travel ban. They threaten and as as a resue know infected people got on airplanes and returned after the Chinese New Year the countries all over the world and help spread the pandemic. We have already been held to account for the by the reputational damage they suffer all over the world and by the rebalancing that many countries are now considering in terms of the supply chains and the relationship with china. What i like to see more aggressive action in january or february . Absolutely but i also recognize the president wouldve been criticized for it and i also dont think it takes with him the things they have done right like mobilizing our Industrial Base to wipe out what at the time was a very severe concerns about a shortage of innovators. We didnt have enough in the president was able to rally the private sector to create a ventilator sure post on this country is loudest to share those with other countries. You mention you are also chairman of the Small Business committee. We have a few minutes left to cover a few topics quickly. They Government Shutdown looms in a couple weeks unless a bill is figured out. Does that looming Government Shutdown minka stimulus relief package is perhaps more likely now, a bipartisan bill because Congress Wants to get something done on all these spending front . I hope so. Im surprised frankly. Maybe im too optimistic but i also thought if anything would break the fever in this town of his unquenchable thirst for political power and ideological figure it would be a pandemic. After while it did but now we see in return and, frankly, no one here is blameless. I think in my sight of the isle there are few who sort of pursuit ideological theory at the expense of the relevant were facing. There is no pure freemarket response to the situation where youre basically telling businesses not to operate. An economy cant recover if youre telling businesses they cant operate and are telling people they cant frequent those businesses. By the same token democrat leadership has made a decedent n in congress, leaders in congress, that theyre better off doing nothing because things would get back in the president will be linked and to help them in november. Thats the disease that is inflicted american politics that for the better part of 20 years. I hope that breaks momentarily at least so we can keep the government funded and we can find a way to do something. Theres no way we can do 3 trillion but we have to do something at hope we can realize that our country desperately needs us to act and to do something, and i think theres a way forward that allows both sides to get a lot of what they want but not everything they want. The sooner we accept that and move forward on it the better of the countries going to be and hope it can happen the next couple of weeks. We are ready to go on ppp. Recent polls show your state florida neck and neck between Vice President biden and President Trump. How concerned should republicans be at this point about florida . As concerned as democrats are because its a close race and either side can win. We know our state is a competitive state, a state barack obama won twice and donald trump came and one. Await election in which several seats in congress and state legislature flip to the democratic side but we won very close races for governor and for use senate as republicans. I think the race in florida is become what was always going to be, a one, 1. 5. Raced down the stretch. If you put anyone on the ballot with the d or r next to the name their guaranteed 47 of the vote in the fight is over sort of the remaining percentages add a lot of that has to do with turnout enthusiasm as well. I ultimately think the president will win florida for a variety of Different Reasons but its one to get very close race and we may not know right away who the winner is. Whats the one region in florida where the city or suburb that really matters right now. Was i dont think theres a region that doesnt matter to be honest. Thats not the answer you want it but whether its republican stronghold in northwest florida, the internet needs to be high. Third in Miamidade County for example, in south Florida Democrats are going to win but can to run a big enough margin . People talk about the eye for quarter only continues to grow in importance that region stretches of Daytona Beach all the way down to the Orlando Sentinel florida and a land and southwest florida is important. Again strong republican voting kerry but if theres any sort of drop off in turn up going to get it would be constant for republicans. When you come down to one, 1. 5. Race theres the region and country come , small adjustmentt can influence the outcome. They are all very important and also the state is would like much of the multiple media market but even within those media markets yet spanishlanguage markets as well that have to be targeted and even amongst spanishspeaking audiences you have people who came from colombia, venezuela, nicaragua, you have american citizens have moved here from puerto rico. Your cubanamerican salvaging 40 years ago, some became 40 months ago and may vote differently. Theres a lot to unpack there. Senator rubio, we have time for one more question. I have been reporting on your political career for sometime and cover your president ial campaign. When you look at your recent speeches, to work in the senate, it screams to meet any political censure or think about something down the line perhaps something jumping back into the president ial field in 2024. How seriously at this time are you thinking about a future president ial race . Is that door open . We have to get through this election. I have run for president before seclude that is in in the past i thought about serving for a lot of time and for running for president once and was a very rewarding excretes however the outcome was not what it wanted. Ive enjoyed, i say this with all modesty possible that over the past four to have come five years will be been able to achieve i think stands up with a record of anyone whos ever served both in terms of getting things done. Ive enjoyed that tremendously. It will be a decision i have to weigh, and do i want to continue to serve in the senate for is an opportunity there for me to serve in a different position. Its always a legitimate point choice did decide have done all he can for this country. Thats a bridge on left acrostic everybody does every six years or every four years to be know what position you are in europe when that moment comes i will make that decision and other variable of course is my family is older. My kids are older, they have different needs from their father and so that will be always a part of that. In fact, probably the single most important determinant in the decision looking for. I will see what to get there but i can tell you i enjoyed very much being in Public Office because i think every morning, i could see something and when i think needs to be addressed and im in a place why can actually try to do something about it. Ive enjoyed doing that a lot and hope to have the opportunity to continue to do it in some form or fashion down the road, but not kind to be evasive. I just dont know where im going to be a year from now in my thinking with all those other factors that we just discussed. We have to get through november 1. It sounds like the door is open to a president ial run, but i take your points. A lot can happen in the next two months and years. Senator rubio, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks so much. Appreciate your time. I thank you all for joining us here today online for the Washington Post live, our life in a good series we will enjoy having this conversation and we appreciate being part of the Texas Tribune festival. They do great work in austin, evan smith and the whole team. Please stay tuned to our Washington Post live broadcast today at 10 a. M. My colleague will have conversation with melinda gates, the famous philanthropist, she will be here Washington Post live and at 11 in my colleague bill rucker, my byline part of many stories he will interview bob woodward who needs no introduction, the legendary journalist as you all know at with this new book rage and the will be at 11 a. M. Today, 1. We wrote the story last week on rage. Its been a busy time since the story came out in the book comes out today, tonight. You get your from bob woodward, post legend about his new book. But for now thanks for joining us. We really appreciate you coming by early this morning and have a great day. With ongoing level pandemic in many schools shouldnt online learning, cspans studentcam competition continues to provide students with the platform to engage in the national ammunition. We are asking High School Students to produce a documentary explained issues they most want the president and give congress to address in 2021. [inaudible] when jews are given the opportunity of the skills to become informed voter and engage citizens, they dont because democracy must be learned. From an equity and waits for legal doctors to tumultuous pathway to citizenship, for children who were born here but whose parents illegally migrate here, the immigration system fails many people. This year we are rewarding one of thousand dollars in total cash prizes including a grand prize of 5000. That deadline the deadline to submit videos is january 20, 2021. For competition rules, more information on how to get started go to our website studentcam. Org. Coming up at 9 15 p. M. Eastern secretary of state mike pompeo will discuss his recent trip to europe comes u. S. Global leadership and china. At that event hosted by the atlantic council. You can see that live here on cspan2. Now federal and state officials take part in a discussion on election and voting machine security with election day less than two months away. Held by the billington cybersecurity annual summit this is about 35 minutes. Good morning and welcome to this most Important Panel called election cybersecurity safeguards during t the pandemi. It is a a great pleasure to introduce to you this worldclass moderator and panel. Let me first introduce our moderator, john simone is a Vice President of cybersecurity training and services at raytheon