The hearing will come to order we will look at and linkedin but hopefully we can resolve that at some point sebecause former diversification board discussed the declassification policy and in particular to protect their classified material and safely they can get their moment in the sun. I prepared to defer my Opening Statement because there is a chair hearing at 330 and also has to go in between so is it okay if i give my time so he can open with comments that way he can share on chair his hearing at 3 30 p. M. And i reserve a special favor do you want to see your comments and not miss your hearing . To make it is a privilege to testify to be in front of this committee and i recognized it is Important Role to secure the safety of our citizens and i appreciate that consideration you and senator warner gave in the timing. Members of the committee they give her the opportunity to advocate for declassification reform and for having an open setting as you may be aware i am a sponsor along with a member of this committee senator wyden senate bill with the declassification reformat. We worked on this issue for a long timeatat. Tr. It is surprising to me the end result is so straightforward and relatively simple. It is an attempt to begin the process to modernize declassification but all those relating to declassification. The bill rest on another and so i appreciate the discussion of this bill is but that process that guides the release of declassified information are antiquated o and an end able to come up with the data that is classified on a daily basis. Congress has told the system is unsustainablest. The old election but it is unsustainable and wearing modernization. In 2016 and no longer able to handle the current volume given the exponential the four years later its on a path but those that no longer require classification but those land policymakers as well. The senator push me in 2018 in january to craft a solution that would be important on this regard so there may be the question of why there is an interest and certainly the ability to save taxpayer interest in her transparent to the public. Tending third to those transparency transfers but also the National Archives and other outside experts and officials from the nations intelligence agencies and we know individual agencies are taking this on s steps that the and those from the Public Interest declassification board. And then to have that declassification reform act and their other ideas i can facilitate reform. I am pleased we will flesh out our bill and other ideas where the resources will be necessary to implement please consider me an ally but what is overdue and protects american this and thank you for having this open history. I will condense my Opening Statements and with the Public Interest the review really but that recommended sweeping changes the way we declassified witnesses. We look at our across the Solutions Works to the longest the backlog for moving documents to review was completely outdated and inconsistent with the National Security establishment. The recommendations dont align with the current role to serve as the leader for the entire government and they should not be in a position to set those declassification rules for the Nuclear Programs with that declassification process with the process with the authority. And separately the subject allows us to emphasize the difference between the process of declassification and secrets that dont need to be secret. The reason we classify things not to keep things from people because it is revealed you will reveal how you learned about them and those entities rely on realize you have access and will cut you off. Balance with the default balance with the default position no trans. Government sanmama so it has toe balance between these two equities to learn valuable information needed for transparency. In a matter where we fall on the issue and with these sorts of things but and with that responsibility to withhold classified information and then to lead our nation blind and deaf and then to heard about the brave men and women to prevent the next terrorist attack these are the secrets that al qaeda and china and iran and russia and other seek to do us harm. These secrets need to stay secret but not forever and with that process that allows secret documents and the done responsible i so to make sure that happens with the Intelligence Community. But some are not willing to play by the rules and they deserve better and with the New York Times and Washington Post because a bureaucrat or politician wanted to score cheap political points our nation deserve better than that theyr pay taxes so they provide for common defense and they spend those on Technological Breakthroughs clever Computer Scientist i could make ten times their salary working else and those that keep a safe from a terrorist attack or to stop the oligarchs plan and then to see that evaporate that they are above the Higher Mission to score a political point and then allies suddenly consider a Security Risk and no overstatement to say that people died. The American People suffer for and wholfish acts benefits . But the real winner ultimately is our adversaries. All that said i went to think that professionals those of the declassifications decisions our brief are has represented a small group of people that are a vital part of the committee after working with the Intelligence Committee to make sure were doing no harm all five volumes and we greatlyy appreciate their effort to protect secrets and ensure the American People are able to see our work. Thank you to senators sass for his leadership to ensure if done properly while protecting our investment. With the vice chairman has a interest in this and especially senator wyden who has been the leader to reform the id classification process. Thank you for being here this is the First Experience with webex and me will do the best we can i ask everybody for their patients. System i, slow, bulky, costly and hopelessly inadequate in the digital age of eigh he agenciese using a fragmented system that lacks the resources uniformity and technology to keep pace with the exploding volume of digital records. This leads to errors and erode the trust. If while its important for the operations, policy discussions and weapon systems have significant consequences when the public cannot be engaged in the debate which is timely in terms of election security. Po when policymakers are not informed them that the government cannot be held accountable forrn its actions. The resources from protecting those secrets that must be kept i agree with the chair then it must be kept and honored at a greatein agreater way but my fen todays digital age if anything the new solution seems worse, the ease with which tens of millions of new documents are classified every year so im going to be anxious to hear from the assistfi on how the system s functioning and im sure we will fuhave questions. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. I especially wantou to thank my cosponsor who i know is getting out the door and open hearings are rare so i appreciate him doing that. When the countrys safety is at stake there is a need to classify documents. Its a dilapidated out of control system that costs the taxpayers more than 18 billion a b year. And get this, they cannot even distinguish between what should and should not be kept secret. The classification system is so outdated and dysfunctional but when it comes time to declassi declassify, the agencies have to sign off and dont have the ability to communicate about it securely online at. Watching these intelligence officials march around with their documents might make for a fight funny skit that its damaging to the democracy. Documents that shouldnt be classified are piling up in secret databases. The only thing missing is someone to take responsibility and get it done. So that is what we are doing that would implement the recommendations and direct the director of National Intelligence to take the leadership role. Within the Intelligence Community and at times through the Government Solutions to this longstanding problem. You raised the central concern. It doesnt put the dni in charge of deciding what the dod secrets are declassified. Its about modernizing systems for declassify information that the department of defense and other agencies have already determined are no longer classified. Im sure we are going to have a good discussion. Thank you for your courtesy and opportunity to be here. We would open up for your Opening Statements you might have members of the committee it is an honor to appear to present a perspective on the declassification reform. Im grateful for the opportunity to discuss the classification one of the most important overlooked oversubscribed areas of the program. We propose a definite wide reform with the level of effort but it will require. The u. S. Governments declassification review processes that require significant change to pay for the increase in the Digital Information eligible. Is the exceeded 4 million. Facing those numbers they undoubtedly needed to classification reform. Modernization must occur to meet the demands while safeguarding the nation they become National Security information. They worked diligently to this is true related to the department. On a wide range of topics you. They invest in and continue to prioritize because the important to the understanding of the challenges facing the nation could they continue to work across to improve internal declassification processes and systems. We appreciate the goals and objectives of the classification reform act. Any proposedan reform must be consistent with the obligation to protect sources and methods from unauthorized exposure. They must also address individual agencies such as the department of defense and energy which hasme significant efforts. Additionally the required investment in whole of government change in the legislation in force requires more for an analysis to understand and account for all equities. They agreed the modernization and look forward to the price tag of the proposed legislation. Responsible for all processes of the government. They believe such approach takes it well beyond the role. They delegated the authority to classify as other agencies with executive order. The declassification applies to intelligence located throughout the federal government. It generally doesnt extend beyond. The government liabl governmente declassification does not only resource intensive but suppose all information is treated the same they do not have the or expertise to held by the entire federal government. As such protecting its methods andro activities. This role for the odni complex contrary to the smaller integration body rather than a organization. Onal the enormous and effort to endem the likelihood of success cannot rest in any structure in which individual experience and authority over the classified information. With the concerns outlined in the role we also believe they are not wellsuited to chair the committee over the governmentwide declassification efforts. While they would welcome the discussion on the creation of the executive committee on declassification programs, they recommended the committee engage with other federal agencies with longstanding declassification programs. The way the commission is changing fundamentally as i mentioned, the overall volume of information required in the preview is growing exponentially as agencies produce more and more Digital Information. With such a flood, they agreed the investments will be required in the digital age along with many years worth of Digital Holdings that they hold valuable historical insight. There are opportunities to apply technology such as Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning. Incorporating new technologies would have laborintensive steps to support consistency and befuddled during the process. Human expertise on this holding routinely validating that the technology will only bee necessary. On the network and platform so they can occur smoothly and securely they have their own systems bringing these networks together beyond the level of exchanging emails will be a Monumental Task that require significant resources to deliver the proper environment and even more will be needed for both the u. S. Government. While they continue to work to address the consistency in the review process beyond the infrastructure to support it simply wouldnt work. The challenges are immense and agree thaagreed that the need fm cannot be ignored. Stability and obstacles to make mait for the declassification we look forward to working with the committee and ways that we can connect to meaningful reforms. Members of the committee, thank you for your time and attention to. I want to thank you for the opportunity of modernizing the National Security classification system. He went it creates this in 2020 we recognize the role w they should play at the plate in improving the classification and declassification system. Cosponsoring and introducing the declassification reform act of 2020. The recent report entitled the classification system is. Authorizing and looking forward to continuing our advocacy of the antiquated classification to operate effectively in the digital age is a big made little progress. For these agencies to innovate them into a governmentwide solution they would share interoperability into declassifying the volumes and the recommendations aligned with theig administrations informatn to a few modernization they align with the strategy to do things differently. They remain much the same for what they were when first developed in the administration they were secured in space and that reform i will share one example. They hav had the classified data every 18 months. This is the equivalent of 1 trillion pieces of paper. It would take one year to review this line of information. This is one agency eight years ago. The problem is that its grown exponentially since 2012. Just as the declassification system is about to collapse harming the Operation Space commander testify the Lieutenant General the president s nominee to lead the command testified before the committee that overclassification was making it more difficult for us. This example not only affects obligation divisions that could lead to duplications in the systems, limited innovation and reduce the development of new technologies on projects that could aid the u. S. Dominance. Es agencies left to reevaluate the needs of their customers [inaudible] for example the Geospatial Intelligence created a guide that uses the technology to automate the needs. Technology such as Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning are revolutionizing the operations. The tools and technologies exist at the agencies now. They can and must be used to. They are duplicate event focused on identifying and reviewing their own equity information. Many lack the ability to communicate with each other and putting the national classification. This leads to add to the cost to the processes. We recommend the agent. First the authority to oversee implementation of the policies and processes across the agencies including across the agencies we believe that the indies organizations that comprise the Intelligence Community and they are a proven leader in implementing and managing the acquisitions and operations across the agency. The odni is the leader in overseeing and managing the resource and technology, Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning technologies and it can leverage expertise and intelligence and defense featured projects, National Security, Central Intelligence agency, other community agenci agencies. Lastly we have the statute to bring about change. They can also provide opportunities to gain efficiencies you. The strategy is already in place to improve the classification. The impact of the failure to reform the declassification system will be felt in our democracy and National Security they have been led to the effort of the declassification of the digital age. They report to the congress on its plan for the declassification processes and what it is doing to reduce the declassification backlog. Theres also unanimity the system will not work in the digital age recognizing theres a t problem. Refer to support the nomination and are grateful to the committee for holding this hearing. These are also important steps forward. The government is modernizing the technology practices. The legislation and the next stepsgh the plaintiff it will bring his experience and expertise to facilitate the development of the federated Systems Approach across the agencies who will facilitate the integration of advanced Information Technology into new classification processes. The time for action is now and its too costly or some other agency should be responsible. For thfurther opportunities form and possible solutions to engage with stakeholders should truly address the challenges and identify solutions and implement them. Thank you for your interest and support and i look forward to answering question. Thank you both for being here. I have a couple of questions for. My former colleague mentioned in his remarks congress has asked the odni to come back with a plan on classification. We all believe me over classified now. We over classified now. I think that is more likelycl tn not the default position. If you dont have a lot of time to think about the thing you are classifying and decide there may be something in there that possibly should be classified at a higher level. I dont know how much of that we need to establish here. We need to get back to where the classification is as open as possible. My question the pentagon leaders themselves have been pressing aggressively for this. The secretary of the air force the vice chair of the joint chiefs of staff pointed out how hard it is to make the case publicly without access to information that is widely available particularly so much of it is virtually at the commercial level if not absolutely available at the commercial level and to make the case for Space Command. We both serve on the defense appropriate in committee. His challenges ther challenge ie things that committee needs to know that are not at the intel level but at the level where members of congress should have more access to them than they have now so what kind of things thawould make it easier to expln the needs of the Space Command and other needs if they were classified at a level beyond the likely current classification level . Thank you senator for the question. I can speak the words with the odni is doing a bit if you are concerned about how they over classified things, i share that concern with you and we are collectively working on updating archives for more specific information we are preparing better training for the workforce and i have the utmost confidence that we will get to a point where overclassification will not be an issue going forward. Theres so much available at the commercial level now we wound up classifying the documents that are widely available and almost at the level that we have them but i think people are reluctant to classified document to use it and often dont have the time to go somewhere else to find it. And then to work in the unclassified setting dealing with unclassified material. There are people working from home at the time the headquarters was down . We have had people working from home but they cannot work on ned classification initiatives. Im not making the case i guess. It is that a lot of people have found a way to use the classified commercially available material that allowed them to do most of what they were doing with the classified material and your answer is you have given no advice. So on the move toward more declassification when have you seen you are most encouraged about and what have you seen you are most concerned about as we try to get our hands around the issue from over classifying . Said it or what we have seen is a lack of ability to find standards that can apply for everybody on that. Thats the lack of leadership we are not asking dod and i will not tell them what they are classifying but to make sure everybody is updating those to make sure that they are not there is no activity going on in that realm of that its too much to do but it is incredibly extensive and those that are being spent and we are not on top of the issues. And those that could be done with the individual agencies. Thank you senator. I defer to senator feinstein. Gentlemen, there is a lot of detail here but if i could go at the 30000foot level, i am not exactly sure if there is a common understanding of the problem we are trying to solve with the id classification system. I start from the premise Public Information should be available unless there is a good reason not. I am told there 4 Million People security clearance in the United States and it seems to me do we not over classify it is burdensome to come up with a method of declassification what is the goal . We understand protecting sources and methods but it is too easy for government of w idn andhide mistakes accountability for their actions on behalf of the taxpayer. And how she should conceptualize the problem and how do we reconcile that with the freedom of information act and with that criteria applied to keep it secret or in the hands of the government. Is that a fair contrast should those systems be focused on the same goal . Thersi t and sometimes you gee notion and to avoid embarrassment whether they should be or not. I dont have the magic bullet somebody asked to take charge to say this is a problem. And with those recommendations and then to setet the standards and those that the congress that assess to make sure and then to classify another nobody seems to be doing it thats where the lack of leadership comes in back as a former member of congress is this a legislative branch responsibility to identify what information is classified or the executive Branch Decision . I think its an oversight rule. This is the executive situation to be responsible but to make sure it isnt overly broad and those that shed not the classified. So while they can take a lot of leeway i think congress can advocate its responsibility to make sure its done properly. And have you seen the construct or reform in this area with regard to the classification system you tithink is useful that gets it right orn an absence of saoposals to help us get our arms around that quick. I think ive seen a construct on that. But there is that construct of having leadership that people moved to the goal to make sure that was Intelligence Community and then need to know. In that sense there is a good example to work with agencies and outside of the Intelligence Committee. And that is the analogous problem and with those clearances that were down over 700,000 and in the witnesses. And those to be identified and Machine Learning and then to work on that and that takes somebody with experience in terms of this idea its very important. You may not be as familiar with this part but we work closely with the administration on the security clearance reform process it has taken three years but it seems like there were some similarities. D and to observe any of that. And with that process then they finished it. And with that analogy to security clearance reform and that classification system . With the security classification reform and its fairly uniform and it is to the departments and agencies so that is not the same but on the digital front i know there are multiple working groups that are already dealing with thes issues and has been the past few years. And we are continuing to do tha that. After coded finishes we can do our business. We will point out the director already has the authority to take over for declassification. And those to establish standards for those principles and they should be the ones in our view that she continued raising things in that area and not shift that to another agency. Talking about a digital era is that there are biased words siover classification is there any kind of guidepost to stop that proclivity . Its easier to classify than sorty through . Thats a hard question to answer. There is so much out there. When humans make their own decisions and with their own itperience as well as following classification guidance on what should or should not be classified i do agree we should get automation which would cut down those issues we have seen over the royears there were some efforts underway to come up with the program thatat can help that is immediately recognized as classified orr not to mark the document for you see dont have to do it yourself. I dont think we are there yet but we are making progress. Senator rubio singled out senator wyden and a newer member may be senators sass has the answers. Thank you vice chairman and senator wyden for your earlier statement. To the folks thank you for your work that sounds like a niche topic but its incredibly important and with the risks of over classification it fosters public distrust all 15 of us appreciate the hard work of men and women who labor in the shadows with all the suffering and sacrifices and then to get on a regular basis. But i would pushback a tiny little bit from when you said people are making decisions based on individual histories. Nd assessments they make it based on the instruct on instructional incentive if you classify there is no way to get in trouble if you under classify you can get in troubleiny. So the easy move it is that they are risk averse its too over classify. So one of the things your group has done work on is to provide a simple way for the broader public to understand what we are dealing with. With 18 billion per year with s the declassification systems that are working because they are millions of pages of documents even from the Reagan Administration its important for the public to have access to this information instead of what should or should not be declassified but millions of pages of documents that should already have been declassified have not been because they require manual review. And if the manual review is required then the incentives are rewarded and historians and other scholars cannot get access to not fosters distrust. Thank you again for all of your hard work that as you arrive at the recommendation for the o dni executive agency walk us through the process you considered and how youiv decided and to be the least responsible. The prioritization is important the last report we made we recommended the agencies into what the public would want to see. And then to be d classifying information and then when that declassification ever it is possible 18. 5 billion are already being spent on an annual basis. They are 46 million pages and in 2017 they were declassified at 22 cents per page so we are recognizing the extent to the citizens and the taxpayers and we kept coming back to the notion there had to be some leadership because everyone recognizes the problem and will admit right away needs to be some technology with different architecture, action taken with interoperability but nobody seems to want to take. We looked at the group to see if that was a group that the appropriate but it was only 18 people with a huge responsibility the executive orders have put on it including the classified nation information. You can see the issue on that with only 18 people with 40 million increased over the past five years. By process of elimination to have the power and respect they do command the respect and authority that you need to address this problem and work with us with the Machine Learning. And some of the problems from the senator from missouri. And process of elimination to proceed by other people to do that and that was very important to say this is what we need. I will cut in here just to say thank you i know we are at time but i would note for the record that i will follow up with a letter as well asking how the Pilot Project is going with the applied research lab trying to figure how to use Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning i will do that by letter. For her colleagues that have just joined us i want to mention one issue the chairman raised that i did research on during the break the reforms we are urging does not put the dni in charge of deciding the same principle is True Department of energys secrets , those agencies will decide will be declassified and to modernize the system to declassify is the system that have already determined are no longer classified. Thats an important issue and we will have a dialogue on this. We very much want to work to develop a Bipartisan Coalition in this committee to limit the bureaucracy and that approach that we think makes sense. I would like to start it would be good to have him paint a picture of the declassification process five or ten years from now if the committee cannot get the Bipartisan Coalition for reform. What is withheld from the American People simply because we didnt get a Bipartisan Coalition . Senator it wont be a pretty picture. We dont know right now how many classified documents agencies create and we cant tell you how big the problem is but it is growing exponentially i decided one example in my remarksno. Also to declassify but here is an example of a body of records that has significant historicalic interest and to receive all the president ial records at the conclusion of betweeninistration one and two terabytes of data of the 12 year span during the reagan and h. W. Bush administration four terabytes of clinton with emails and structure data and 80 terabytes from george w. Bush administration 250 terabytes of data from the Obama Administration you can see exponentially it grows in one single category and then you blow it up among the different agencies and how ugly it will be years down the road when you dont have Machine Learning or that technology involved. On the question of essentially how you handle thi this, how important is this that the declassification reform not be stove piped in different parts of the Us Government . Its very important you have so many different agencies classifying so many different aspects now that its almost impossible for people to do it. It was mentioned earlier if somebody has a declassified document from another agency if you do that manually you have to get it from one point to another unless its physically brought or somebody visits to review in a secure setting. It gets completely out of control and moves on from there. One last question. So this is a common refrain, lets look somewhere else to do this job to clean up the declassification and he seems to think the National Center is able to play the role to bring about the ticlassification. We were concerned they really dont have that bureaucratic muscle to get federal agencies to modernize the declassification systems. What is your take on that . Or you could say the Information SecurityOversight Office but when it comes down to it for all the wonderful things i want to thank you for the work that they do but its not the same when the od and i on do is not equipped in thatt manner also with the workload for the staff people in the budget that is shrinking instead of growing. What we cant do it doesnt have that Technical Expertise or access to Technology Already in place. Unlike the o dni to manage the multi agency secured Foundation Like the system i mentioned that is. It does not have experience managing the network and in fact the National Archives only have two terminals on the entire agency it doesnt have the experience that they have highlighted in 2018 and for some reason they would take on that leadership role to have a good say to do that. And the director does not have the same stature ability with those policies. And in conflict with the main Oversight Mission. We had discussions with Civil Societies and organizations and in the National Archives is not the appropriate agency to serve as the agent and we have tried to have discussions with the folks at the o dni but it was not successful that we are open to have more im not aware of another agency that has the extent that they have. I will over my time. Thank you both very much for scheduling this hearing and giving us this opportunity. Thank you chairman. Representative tierney welcome. That only that your fellow Board Members for your most recent report to modernize and reform the declassification system. I really worry very much of the stakes then action in this field. As you mentioned a lack of reform means we will continue to spend an outrageous amount ofof money 18 billion per more on a 50 era system so many see that modernization is too costly there is clearly a risk not to make these investments now in the modernize system to bring cost savings down the road. What investments are needed to modernize declassification . Do think there is the potential for actual cost savings based on a more streamlined Technology Dependent modernized system . Thank you senator. Nice to seeel you again. We believe there are a significant savings and a half billion dollars may underestimate the present time we need to evaluate those cost we cannot afford to continue on the way we are going. We need to get the Information Technology but those will be costly with that one time cost but then the cost but also for congress for the need to know in that inability to access is huge so that might be significant initially but over time it is a big cost saver and get the information. This is a committee who really understands the utility of using Machine Learning and inArtificial Intelligence so the same set of eyes doesnt have to go for the same product over and over all day long humans dont do well in that environment so just a few documents to be looked at is something in our entirety we understand the power of that could change how we evaluate intelligence product. How do we scale up the pilots with Machine Learning to take the same zeal to utilize those tools in declassification your edc with analysis of other intelligence product . We so we have to acknowledge those and build upon the but then in a fashion so you are not doing research twice with the same technology twice and making sure when we do get it its from everybody across the way it takes leadership and the person to say this is what we will do. This is our decision and we will move in that direction. We suggest the executive agent and the committee for that is the important factor but they recently testified over classification. Congressman can you talk about operation admissions not just the publics right to know but. N th it alsod some notes the general was the predecessor on not to talk about the fact they were just duplicating things when they didnt need to do that. And had a serious effect and those are the two best examples that we have. Talking about the over classification of information he said is unbelievably ridiculous like so many others worried about classification of operations and effect on cost and innovation in the ability with industry and the private sector and so with the publics inside of the programs and especially the costly one so not just the big dollar cost and then to impact our ability to carry on senator king. Are you still with us . I come at this with a great deal of knowledge but one question is, are we swamped by declassification because we try to declassify everything . Or what about the system that said we will just work on the declassification of things that people ask for . It seems to me that cuts that down considerably or are we swamped and what people are asking for. And that it requires that things are declassified on timetables but i thank you are right on the money talking about privatization there has to be a system in place for what we need in the Government Agencies and the ability to work with private sector and the i innovation and historians, congress, the public at large. And then to say everything will be declassified after five yearss 10 or ten years. Thats the fall back but then its the burden on the agencies to we classify if they feel like its justified the burden on those who did it in the first place to say yes we need to keep this classified or let it go with the other 1 million pages. I will lead it to my friend for the obvious intelligence reactions to that presently the lack of manpower and technology to see if they should continue or even have a review or be released on that. We went to the kennedy papers 50 years after the incident of that there is a great deal of discussion sources and procedures of that nature. Thats a great way to do it. With my limited time, you said not me. I dont want to be it but if not then who . My experiences you need someone who is responsible. One throat to choke and the problem with the whole issue is scattered throughout the government and nobody can be held. If you dont think it should be dni then who . The president has a really t yauthorized to agencies to coordinate across the executive branch and all declassification activities. One was given the authority as well as prioritize what should reviewed byt be agencies. Is in working with those groups over the past few years to specifically address that issue so we can get down to what the American People want to know as opposed to reviewing meaningless information now spending so much time reviewing in the first place. Thank you mr. Chairman again i express my appreciation to senator wyden for leading. Some people say you have brandy and ath cigar off camera. Im somewhere in the bowels of the capital. [laughter] i defended you. Anybody else online . A lot of the topics have been covered. If i can first briefly ask you to explain the methodology of the report . I did not personally review it but our staff looked at it last night. Who did you interview with the data we gathered how is that included in the recommendations. And those that have been tremendous then to give you a good idea. That what im getting at so i know what the reforms would cost but there is broadbased support for the idea and then to fully utilize the technology available. It seems to be there isnt much controversy around the idea there needs to be an executive agent, somebody has control in terms of overseeing strategy and driving the investment. athe yes, i would absolutely y yes. The estimate for 18 three 9 you know if that number just reflected maintaining the current classified system . That is the current maintenance of the system. It doesnt take into account what would be needed in order to be due the types of things we requested. We had discussion with National Archive leaders, researchers, Civil Society organizations, record managers and other asian these. Office and the Intelligence Community but we offer to meet with them once we met with resistance on that. We still remain willing to do that. We tried to determine why for lack of experience and resources and authority and all of those things that they have. We would be happy to go into that in more detail. Again, its not because it wouldnt be money or an investment or spending. To be clear, this is not plugandplay. Who gets this assignment, they are going to need resources. Will in terms of the notion to accurately represent the position is on this recommendation. Its not that you are against the reform, its that you are against a level of discomfort with designing a system other agencies, you dont have authority over would have to abide by. Resources you have now, that would not be enough it would require Additional Resources and he were tasked with this and the personnel now . Yes. I would say yes that is correct. The estimate of 18. 39,000,002,017 was that the cost for the Current System or to evaluate documents and then to have a billion dollars on that. And then what is needed to have the dod and i and things we are requested and get done and i a lot of them in the record managers and other agencies and we have met with oh dni and then we hear the resistance on that and we are willing to do that we were able to make the convention of the national declassification and for lack of experience lack of resources and lack of authority would be more than happy to go into more detail with that. Its not because it would it be or in the front and have authorities over would have to abide by if you dont have specific decisions is that an accurate assessment to t be the executive agent . Thats correct. Simply transferring those that have if the issue is resources and money then why cant those agencies be given the same type ofei resources proposed at that dni. But we are agreeing significant reforms is necessary and we have been working towards that with the executive branch. But there are so many things the oh dni has that in terms of experience of multi Agency Enterprise systems, securing communications protecting sources and methods, they dont have that stature or to corral agencies with the Oversight Mission so is notct authorized by the president to do this or the national declassification cente center. We think it should be the one with the experience and the authority and the capabilities shown in other settings and outside of the Intelligence Community. What it boils down to is widespread agreement someone needs to bee in charge and who is the right entity to maintain and implement on the ongoing basis and then the end turn all perspective if it touchesco on it will not have the place for snow alter and those that are worth pursuing in this report and that gives us the baseline which i hope he fleshed out the remaining outstandingta topics of our options. Thank you for being patient and contributing even trying to get on the books for a oncouple of months. Thank you both for being willing to come onlinee today. There may be some followup but some people cannot come over today but thank you for erbeing a party to this and we are adjourned thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] its ordered liberty. If you take away the order, you get liberty which is great. But that