We working with the 64 secretary of state Madeleine Albright talking about her new book, hell and other destinations which is a very interesting book it would look forward to the conversation. Welcome to our podcast today. Guest i am enjoying talking with you anytime. Host im at the Jefferson Building of the library of congress. She is at her home and virginia we were young staffers together in the white house under president carter and i have followed your career since then with great admiration. This is your seventh book since you left us secretary of state did you ever imagine after the first woman to serve as secretary of state you would write seven books in addition since you left . Guest no. Never occurred to me i would write so many but i think it was important those who have served to write their memoirs that is what gives people an understanding of what happened. Everybody writes a somewhat different version and then to figure out what really happened. Host behind you have a lot of books in your home you are a big reader and writer but and then to write the memoirs and you wrote that book called madam secretary. How long did it take you to write that . Did you enjoy writing that did you say one is enough . Guest it took quite a while because it was something i had to figure out based on the calendar for what i had done and the thing that happened in many ways and then to have these scratch pads and when i saw the schedule it was like the Rosetta Stone to figure out what i had done. They did think it was important to write it. I met mr. Garcia marquez he said when you write your it memoirs dont be angry i thought that was good advice dont take out your problems with somebody. It did not occur to me i would write so many other books and that i needed to elaborate on that memoir so then i wrote a book about my childhood which is also part of the memoir and then the last book is my post Public Service memoir. I have written quite a few. By the way to be honest i had help and its important to get the notes right and to know what you are talking about as best you can. Host one of the book chevron about as well is your plan you are wearing today you are famous for the pins what is the genesis and why did you write a book about that . Guest i like jewelry but when i got to the United Nations february 1993, right after the goal for and a ceasefire was translated into sanctions resolution and i was instructed as ambassador to make sure the sanctions stayed on so after invading create with all the problems in baghdad but among them was unparalleled service i started to wear a snake but then when we were talk about iraq and the press would pick it up one said were you wearing a snake been . I went to the fact i was parallel to the serpent and i said this is in one this is fun so i bought a lot of Custom Jewelry so on good days i will flowers and butterflies on a bad day animals and fighters and the other ambassadors would say what are we doing today and i would say read my plan. Thats how it started and then having a traveling collection it was try to make policy less foreign and those in a collection. Host so let me bring everybody up to speed you worked on capitol hill for senator muskie that was your first job as a professional and then you went to work in the white house per i met you getting your phd at columbia graduating from wellesley before that and ultimately you started to advise other candidates you are not advising bill clinton that closely would ultimately with his un ambassador in the first four years you served as his ambassador. Guest yes i worked with a lot of president ial campaigns but not clinton i was heading a think tank we had a lot of advisers. And as the governor of arkansas and then to go to georgetown in the eighties and that was our connection. Host as ambassador for four years and then when the second term came along Warren Christopher announced his retirement. There was competition for the next secretary of state and no woman has been picked. No. I think it would happen. There was this. Of the great nation and my name was mentioned as a cabinet member and then someone said no woman can ever be secretary of state so the arabs ambassador said we have had no problems dealing with ambassador albright with no problems with secretary albright. Somebody at the white house i dont want to know who, said she is secondtier. I truly did not believe it would happen but i was surprised when it did. I was in new york. And the chief of staff called me in december 1992 and said im sorry 1996, if the president of the United States were to call you would you take the call . If the president were ask you to be secretary of state would you say yes . I obviously said yes to both lisa go home the president will call you in the morning but took a long time for the phone call and i was sure he changed his mind i did not believe what happened. Host it did happen. When you serve as secretary of state, what would you say is the greatest accomplishment you are proud of with the job and secretary of state. I was so thrilled to represent and it was a fascinating time. The only problem is that several months after i was name presumptuously but i think it was a fascinating time in the cold war. And my background is so crazy in the history is important , my father had been ambassador. I understood the balkans and the language. So i do think the thing i am proudest of that i did is to help and the ethnic cleansing in kosovo. I think its something im really proud of. Host george w. Bush elected president you were stepping down as secretary of state succeeded by colon powell what advice did you give him . Guest we knew each other very well he was the joint chief in the first part of the Clinton Administration and we had had discussion of use of force and had known each other very well. And by the way it was a strange. Because it took so long to count the votes. I believe transition is a very important. So colon powell and i had very many conversations about that. I left him a note to say we try to clean up but he was about to take the best job in the world. We talked about what it was like to be secretary of state and talked about something we were in the middle of which was north korea talking to kim jong il about to resolve the problem and he would work on that. And that was the headline to say power continues policies on north korea. But we spent a lot of time together and one of the important aspects with the current secretary of state dealing with those predecessors that it could be very proud of and having contact with ones assessors is important. Guest when you leave to get secret Service Protection . What was it like the first week after you left . Guest there were some decisions of Diplomatic Security and then secretary powell said there are no thoughts so were taking it away. It is strange because i lived in washington a long time i had to drive around washington but i have not driven and eight years so they had to take me to the counterterrorism driving course. Its very strange being surrounded by a group of people for such a long time now you feel naked going out. The people that were very nice to me the cabdrivers would yell out thank you for helping her country. But they were around. And then i got to be good friends with them. Host did people laugh at your jokes as secretary of state was a different the way they treated you after you left . Guest very different for sure. They are so many funny stories about things that happened. I have a couple in my book. I was in Heathrow Airport which is one of the more difficult to get through all of a sudden i am picked to be the person that has to take everything out of the suitcase from taking everything out i have had it and i said excuse me do you know who i am . He said no. But we can find a doctor who can figure it out. It was hard not to laugh at that they go around saying that i could not resist doing that at the moment. Host you started a Consulting Firm that is now a large wellknown Consulting Firm in washington dc. Have you had experience before and you get nervous about starting that business . Guest one of the questions is what i do after i left office . I had a mantra have to complete what i finish so i was asked to go back to georgetown to teach and then somebody suggested about starting a business. What really happened and John Chambers asked me to come out to Silicon Valley how the government could help them and they said excuse me . We need the government to get Market Access and regulation. And i spoke to the american and chamber and i learned nothing. And they had a very different view of the things that are going on so i came back to the department and establish supplies for american corporations and fascinated by the whole system of private public partnership. That is what the Consulting Firm is based on we dont lobby or work in the United States the basically trying to help corporations sort out what is happening applied but it came as my experience and president obama spoke in cairo about having a relationship secretary clinton wanted to expand on it and wanted to do something with muslim majority countries and asked me to do that so i have been fascinated by the publicprivate partnership. It is called albright stonebridge. You also mentioned the National Democratic institute what is that quick. It has been taken by Ronald Reagan speaking in the early eighties and said democracy was not good about explaining communism so started the endowment for democracy business and labor and democrats and republicans i was made the first vice chair and i had worked on before i went into the government into promoting democracy you cant do that it is an oxymoron so one of the issues is always out there is what comes First Political development or Economic Development and they clearly go to gather because people want to vote and eat some interested in what they are doing now in 70 countries. And as you know democracy is under threat. Host we have also done is and institute has been set up you are growing up in denver how did you pick that is a place to go to school . I lived on long island my father was a diplomat and at that stage the Rockefeller Foundation with those intellectuals we had no idea where denver was we move there i went to private school there on scholarship where there were two teachers went on to wellesley we talk about that an awful lot when i was in cambridge massachusetts i thought it was fantastic and it never occurred to me i could never go there. Went to school on scholarship and one of the most important things i ever did was go to wellesley which is the basis for the kinds of things that i learned and im dedicated to that college and he else one dash she also went to wellesley ten years younger than im. Host what does the institute do . Guest to train young women in global leadership. Between semesters in january under normal times we bring back 40 albright fellows that has been chosen in order to do projects together and live on campus together and what i like about it is it is multidisciplinary with poly science and econ majors also science and religion majors and they Work Together on projects. And then they have internships and then they come back to wellesley to describe what they learned so then there are 400 albright fellows out there women are not networking as men are so now they have met and meant for each other and Work Together im very proud of it. Is just talking to the organizers we will do a virtually this year i try to get speakers to come and have discussions. Im very proud of the albright institute. Host you are very active on the speaking circuit and what was that like when they started to send you here and there . Did you enjoy that . Guest the first i thought this could be interesting but now all of a sudden what really happened and secretary powell is one of the best speakers that they sent me a tape and said oh my god i could never do this. Actually i enjoyed it because what i like most of all is answering questions because i learned a lot by the questions they ask i have enjoyed it. And its interesting how many groups are created by the lecture series i have enjoyed it. Host you make a lot of commencement speeches. Some people charge you do not for sometimes i read from your book you do three per year so its a trick to keep them interested when they want to celebrate . Guest why i like it is because it took me a long time for me to get my phd. Once i had gotten it i wanted to find my robe my husband said where we were them . I said i dont care i earned them i will give them to the supermarket. My father is a professor i love the academic rituals. I do like doing it. And a try with all the standard jokes to have a sense of humor and then i do like to shake hands with everybody and has to do with my aberration and to see how graduations are. You still teach at georgetow georgetown . I do im getting ready for the semester. Foreignpolicy so what are the tools . So what word we do we had this crazy interagency reading cut off their fishing rights and i thought what kind of crazy things so i started to think what the National Security toolbox looks like in order to decide what to would be used and that i love the concept of executive relations and i do enjoy teaching. Host you point out in your book you have time to develop closer relationship with your grandchildren and your three daughters with that like to spend more time with them and travel the world . I have three fantastic daughters who are busy doing their thing. Everything is different now and one family lives in San Francisco. Are ready to go there. At the moment. My grandchildren are college students. I was giving a talk in San Francisco so i think i surprised them a little bit and my granddaughter so whats the big deal grandma madeleine to be secretary of state . Call girls are secretary of state these are things i learned from my grandchildren. Host they dont call you madame secretary . Guest they call me grandma. Host who had been preceded by Condoleezza Rice and you try to recruit her for a Democratic Campaign so what was the relationship . Guest this is the craziest story. My father went to denver he died in 1977. And among them was a ceramic pot so i said to my mother where did this come from and said from Condoleezza Rice she was a music major and have gone to notre dame service africanamerican music major from alabama wrote her dissertation on the military so in 1987 working for Michael Dukakis my job was to find a Foreign Policy advisor and i said why not i asked her and she said i dont know how to to tell you this but i am a republican. I said how could you . We have the same father. [laughter] we talk about that a lot and we do see each other. Host what about Hillary Clinton and the nature of your relationship . Guest let me go back about secretary of state. One of the things that happened when i finally became secretary of state and traveling with her president clinton i would introduce her and she would introduce him and she said during this period hillary would say why wouldnt you name madeleine . And the expressions were better than anyone else and make your mother happy way over to her. There were all these jokes of Eleanor Roosevelt very active in the un and i would introduce her to the other ambassadors and we got to be very good friends this is just professor womens conference i had to leave my youngest daughters wedding reception to go to the conference to talk about human rights and womens rights i admire her greatly as a tagteam in one of those important ambassadors formally and to represent our values. As secretary of state it was revealed to your surprise that your parents were born jewish and several were killed by the nazis and you wrote about that but you one back and saw one of your grandmother diaries youve never seen before how had you not known about that before and what did you find . Guest when i first became un ambassador in my name was in the papers all the time, one of the things that happened mr. To get letters from people and then in 1996 i get a letter i was just being name secretary but when my father died my mother moved to washington then all her papers were transferred to me and they were in my garage and trying to figure out what to do with them with their Diplomatic Security and moving everything to a storage area and then i was looking for something in the storage area i find an envelope inside was an amazing diary in so many ways it has been a message in a bottle. Host your papers, all of your papers will eventually go to the library of congress . Guest i am just doing that im very excited about that. With all of the things you have done with history i cannot quite express to even be a footnote in american history. At the archives in a see letter the president was nominating me as secretary i have done a lot of Research Nothing makes me happier than to turn into library of congress. Host one or two final questions. With her book festival is American Ingenuity as the theme. You are an immigrant who was calm and and risen to the top but how do you describe ingenuity as part of your life . One of the things i was asked to describe myself i said a worried optimist and i have always tried to have a positive you and try to solve problems and i am grateful to come to the United States. The combination of all of that what is remarkable is a sense of ingenuity and to solve problems. And now i have to say and spending time with young people with the institute i do have faith in the Younger Generation because we are not going back and then to solve the most complicated problems and we are problem solvers. And then to see these changes that will allow us as ingenuity and not look backwards. Host hell and other destinations is your seventh book where did the title come from . Guest the most famous thing ever said theres a special place in hell for women who dont help each other so famous ended up on a starbucks cup and it came from my own experience i was trying to develop my life in many ways women were judgmental about what i was doing it was a different era saying why shouldnt one where you at home with your children . And as i traveled around as the Vice President ial candidate with clinton they would say i can talk to a russian i thought why did they their own sense of inadequacy on other women . So often i was the only woman in the room and i thought we need more women in the room there is a special place in hell for women who dont support each other. This book was written before the virus. And looking at how germane the title is today. Host why is history so important and that people write books what they have done and why is history so important to you . Guest history is incredibly important to me if they dont understand the effectiveness and it shapes peoples lives. I grew up with the father and mother who talked about the history of the country czechoslovakia things happening in europe and i teach this course on National Security i love to go back and explain the history of what led to the following issues we are dealing with you cant function in the world today if you dont understand the history i do think its incredibly important and i think sometimes it is collaborated on talking to someone like former students part of the history i was involved in that relationship for those that have done terrible things to get the point across. And in terms of the background story of american president s so i do think history and telling it and now way to put the reader or the listener whats taking place at the time to understand how those issues came about and how they were solved. Host you be giving your Plan Collection to the state Department Museum but what is that then you are wearing now symbolize . Guest the last book because i talked about what it was like to be in england during world war ii. My father was from a checklist of ikea. And my father when listen to the bbc and every podcast would begin with the first five notes of beethovens fifth it was morse code which is a the for teresa with a history aspect of it it would be appropriate for this book tour. Host when will be writing your next book . Is there another one in mind for the next ten years of your career . Guest we will see i have them planned it. If something comes up. For instance one of the books i wrote was about the will of god and religion and Foreign Policy because i thought it was not understood. I do have. And i do enjoy the book tours to have an opportunity to learn a lot from the audience that are able to be a part of it. Host i enjoyed reading the book congratulations on everything you have done in our country. Guest thank you for all you do and for our friendship. Thank you in our country. Guest thank you for all you do and for our friendship. Thank you in our country. Guest thank you for all you do and for our friendship. Thank you in our country. Guest thank you for all you do and for our friendship. Thank you. Host thank you for joining us on tv for coverage of the National Book festival another author event is about to start Susan Glasser and peter baker of their biography talking about the biography of Richard Holbrook talking about the biography of Richard Holbrook talking about the biography of Richard Holbrook