Recognized. Weant here yet. Can you hear me now madam chairman. Yes we can hear you. Thank you so much. Is there any statistical benefit in requiring the borough to deliver a portion of data by the end of the year despite having to suspend Field Operations for three months . Shouldnt the bureau have had more time than usual to finish less . Rk than i concu with that statement. As far as rks of accuracy accounts. The shorter amount of time the bureau has to produce quality data, the higher the risk that something is going to go wrong. Its been a fewre degree the decision to rush the council could affect the quality and the accuracy of the dataur sampled . Subpoena. [inaudible] yes or from the Data Processing standpoint it does the initial plan from the Census Bureau this is precovid was to have 50 days of Data Processing. That went down to about 90 days. Now ten to 77 days. It does put more pressure on them to both be able to identify anomalies improperly be able to address those anomalies should you identify. Madame jeremiah visible now i was being told i was not. You are now visible. Okay thank you. Madam chair i heard we were part of the conspiracy there is but never actually major when emanate from the president of the United States today invites us to believe th somehow there is a conspiracy ofub dozens of Elections Officials and secretaries of state around the country, all of whom have rejected the ridiculous and nonsensical attacks on the ection. Justs the president has been on waging sabotage on the electoral pcess, he has been waging sabotage on consensus cewhich is essential to the electoral process. Citizen ship questions on the 2020 census. In any way designed to distort and depress census particatio pticipation. Diffuse to back up thislan until the Supreme Court struck it down ass arbitrary and unlawful. Then whe coronavirus hit, and of course the lady census. Secretary roth and director dillingham tri you the right thing by taking 120 day extension to deliver. Then politics took over again and the predent reversed course. And then it roughly force the bureau to shut down Data Collection among early and insted is still produce the final results by december 31. Are just seeing a series of outrageouss attempts to dermine and subvert the 2020 census. Just like the one to undermine and subrt the election. Now they want more of the plaintext of the the constitution and overturn centuries of governmental practice by not countingll of the persons of the United States as clearly directed by theonstitution. We come to you on that. Is it not the case there has been aen ton broken more than two centuries of counting every person is commanded by the constitution . That is my understanding. Breakins for springs working onwo census issues since a 1990 census. And from then until 2010 idella member that the topic of minor conversation in any of those. Select the 14th amendment said representatives according to their respective numbers. Counting the whole number of persons in each state. Theres a number of occasions in the n constitution which citizensze were used very liberally in other cases the person as were used. Of unbroken practice going back to the First Congress because it says we count the full number of persons. Let me ask you, if you were to faulty president down this particular primrose path. Believe and have a way of counting people in different citizenships and immigration categories . Is there a database in the federal government has accuracy of every church in theer country . Enforce im not able to be overly helpful in that. That is not something we looked a lot up or it and the Census Bureau is looking at literally dozens of different federal databases. The individual and collective accuracy of those databases is not something that i can speak to, sir. Stomach all that is to say were not set up because of what the cause edition calls for. Its one more effort by the administration to politicize and destabilize and disrupt the senses in violation of the constitution. The laws we have in congress to implement the more than 200 years of unbroken precedents. I yield back to medicare. Your time has expired. We will now go back and well set the clock at seven minutes two minutes and 37 seconds. Youre now recognized. Thank you. Sorry for the inconvenience madame chairwoman. Dant to address the previous gentlemen my colleague from maryland in regards to his comments to the election. Youre often reminded with the committee was none other than the gentleman from maryland the disbelief in regards to the Voting Machines that were utilized in 2016. In the fraud thatud was the election. There is legislation to federaler oversight. So happy car for what we ask fo for. We have to watch arizona in regards with the machines have done what they have been picked up on. I want a Fair Election but one legal vote cast by one individual. I want it to you. Your timel. That migration votes from blue states to red states like mine. Do we have the memes to track these migratory patterns are ensure americans count as a california sum up several months ago to include arizona appointed to their Current Location of their former residence with the memes to do that . Im sure we have the memes to do that. Yes, i would believe the federal government contract that. Stomach should that be part of the anomalies are the final dictation . My understanding its been reported to him as a ten people a day leaving the new york state to florida and southern states. Seems like a very valid number to follow. It would be an interesting number. I would guess the Postal Service could provide that information to the Census Bureau based on the fact that those people would migrate from a state like california and new york. They would go and seek residence on the state of florida, georgia, or north carolina. We will be changing their address. That Something Like we have seen democrats actually do in georgia. They come and register in georgia for the next election. That is something. [inaudible] im sorry, the question broke out. Could you repeat it . Eve can y repeat the question. You broke up. So it can hear me madame chairwoman . Now we can hear you we cannot prior. Leasing georgia democrats actually ask people to come and vote in georgia. We cant hear you now. We are having connection issues. [inaudible] you are now recognid. Mr. Grossman. Mr. Grossman would you please on mute. Can hear me now . Yes we can. Okay good. A couple of questions. First of all, with regarding immigrants. As i understand it right now, are there immigrants in the United States, from mexico who were voting in mexican election elections . I understand that is so . Soon include both mr. Landry otherwise someone is can answer two. Could you repeat the question sir . As i understand it there is an article a few yearsgo if mexican immigrants in thehe United States, mexican immigrants are votingn mexican elections. Is that true . I do not know that to be in accurate facts. You could presume that someone entered the country legally and is still a citizen of mexico theyould either return to mexicor and vote. To any of the other three people want to awer that question . I can google it that efforts are being made by mexican politician to get people in america to vote in mexican elections. Any of the other three of you folks wanto comment on that . I would presume its true. It is true. Just google it you will find out is true. And iuess, i think that is a lile unusual. I wondered if that is true, where they register in mexico . I assume they mustave a peanent residence. And if so, arehey being counted for csus purposes in mexico as wl . Does anybody know . Shouldnt we know that . We have four experts here. Are people who are here illegally in this country, are they being counted . I wld assume, ill ask ask anotheruestion then. If im an american citizen and i wanto spend three months taki a student, spent three months in gat britain as a student for the fall semester, then counted for the u. S. Census . Or not counted for the u. S. Census . Youre going to be there for your few left ear. Spin mike what happens there . While i can speak to is what the residency rules and the Census Bureau uses of t u. S. Census bureau is they would. The question is, see it is highly relevant. Because we dont count people into places. If i live in fond du lac, wisconsin and i am a student at the university of wisconsin madison, earlier said that we have a problem here because a lot of people double counts, right . Mom and dad think is a resident but maybe mistys filling out her own form at the dorms in madison. We dont want her double counted. I think it is highly relevant as to whether people in this country are being counted twice. In this country and other countries as well. Does anyone know that . You are all experts. Rose definitively based on research i would to 8. 5 Million People were duplicates in the 2010 census. And i expect that to be much greater this time. What percent . Is 8. 5 Million People were duplicate records. Erroneous records that were included in the accounts of the censusnt in 2010. And they, plus erroneous inclusionss ended up counterbalancing the 16 Million People that were totally missed fromhe 2010 census. That is the only reason they census in 2010 was hyper accurate. See you believe this time as well we might be counting 8 million, tenant people twice . Are they College Students . I think the duplication process is going against steroids and is when to be much greater. Okay that is reassuring. Is any effort being made to make sure if people are seeing their residence in mexico lets say theyre not bret residence here . Is a Census Bureau know about that . No . We dont care . All this and we dont worry about accuracy . We are so accurate that we have 99. 90 of the residents of the addresses we are doing with that something with them . Weve got millions in millions of people might be double counted in this . When you give me the double counted numbers are they double counted living in this country are double counted like you are coued in the United States in another country . It is a combination of things. It includesud College Students counted in college town as well as he. It includes divorced filies, each parent to claim their own kids. And it iludes a lot of folks have second homes. If you live in minnesota and like to spend your winters in the rio grande valley, you could end up showing up twice because you filled out the form in each location. Medical that is reassuring. We found something new to vapor its wreck your time is expired thank you very much. We recognize mr. Sir baines, mr. Baines you are now recognized. Thank you very much madame chair can hear me okay . Guess we can. Mr. Chanteuse i wanted to ask about two things. You cochair of the task force of census experts. And yousa have said in your capacity as cochair, that because it is data of the foundational of our democracy commerce in everyday lives nation deserves publicly available indicators to be set the credibility of the final counts. I appreciate your testimony here today reinforcing this notion of accountability, transparency, the accuracy of the data and the importance of bringing in outside experts who can give the public more confidence that the census is being conducted in an accurate fashion. Are you satisfied that the Census Bureaus has provided all of the data that you and other experts need to assess the quality of the census count . Frankly that simply is not occurred. We want very much for there to be me transparency. We have outlined in o documents in our workforce rert the indicators that we know exist and could be easily generated and put out to the public into researcrs so that we could establish for ourselves indepenntly the qualit of the census counts. There is no question theres going to be strengths and blemishes to the census counts. There are in any census. However, because of this time with covid and all the challenges that i have reviewed, i it others reviewed over the course of her Opening Statement statement we think that there is a severe risk are there to be highly differential quality aects to accounts across the country. I want to ask you about to relatively specific components of the data. One is getting these data quality measure attracted the level and to speak wit that is important. The second is the nonresponsive followup process i understand those numbers can sometimes be putnside the overall Completion Rate at the state level. But is important to break up the nonresponsive follow and understand exactly what happened to that. If you could speak to those particular issues i would appreciate it. Make sure. Actually joe salvo has indicated incredibly important to get details quality indicators down to the census tract level. Because we need to know whether some community, census tracts are neighborhood level types of indicators. We need to know the extent to which there are real problems. Not just knowing the total number of people there, but knowing their makeup so we can plan for things like schools and fire station, and things of that sort. Not only that, but in terms of political representation, if you have a collection of census trucks that are undercounted whereas the other sate suburban census are over counted, you were going to set up the inequality and inequity we have heard throughout this hearing this far. Were individuals end up getting less representation and federal funding than they deserve others get more than they deserve. I pressured that. I wanto emphasize what you just said. Fundamtally the census is about giving every person in this country the opportunity to stand up and to be counted. And if you do not have that kind of accuracy at theensus tract levels as you just indicated, you can have a situation where the voice of some people in some neighborhoods and some communiesn is being given more weight than the voices of other communities and other individuals in our country. And so you can perpetuate some of the unfairness and imbalance dtribution of sort ofpo political power and voice across the country that already exists in so many ways. The census ought to be coating that unfairness making sure that everybodys voice is given equal weight. So i appreciateou emphasizing that. That is why it is so critical, met them chair, that the accuracy, transparency, integrity of this process be protected. I appreciate the opportunity to have us address that today and with that iac would yield back. The gtleman yields back. You are now recognized for question placement thank you madam chairman. This is a a Rapid Response question. It is a yes or no. If you would answer yes or no. General landry, should we allow noncitizens regardless of their legal status to run for officen the United States . Student could you repeat that again congressman . I said should we allow noncitizens regardless of their legal status to run for office the United States . Own no, sir. Okay, same question yesterday no. Cert that is not something that the support agency in congress that i can offer informed view on. Steve extricated is the law. I assume you are familiar with the law it is a yes or no pay to the extent that is consistent wit the law i would agree. But be on the policy concern that is not something i can speak to placement im not ask you a policy question pretty masculine question as to whether or not noncitizens regardless of legal status should be allowed to run for office in United States . Mr. Salvo yes or no. Based on the law that would guid my judgment. Its a yes or no. At the lot is not permitted the lot is not permitted. So your answer is no . My answer is if that is the law that is indeed the law. Im going to take that as an unmitigated you dont want to ansr. Mr. Santos. Actually very muc resonated with mr. Salvos response. If that is t law than we should follow it. Then we should not allow them, should we allow them to makeinancial contributions or inkind contributions to canadians, general landry yesterday no . No. Civic mr. Mann . Specs are the loss we followed on this whatever the law would be. It is beyond my knowledge of the precise requirements here. The losses no. Mr. Salvo . At the losses no i would respect that. Mr. Santos . Met consistent with the law i would s no. Thank you. Should undocumented residents, well should noncitizens regardless of the legal status be allowed to vote in our elections . General landry . No. Mr. Maam . Again its what ever the legal requirements are. We believe the legal requirement should be followed. I will take that as a no. Mr. Salvo . I would conform with the rules of the law. Its whatever the law says i would respect that. Civic mr. Santos . What mr. Salvo says i would say no. Stomach given those answe should votes cast in this last election by noncitizens including people residing here illegally be counted and allowe allowed . General landry . Vic is that a yes or no . Know they should not be counted. Mr. Maam . Those should be consistent with the loss. Mr. Salvo . Sameld vote should be counted consistent with the law. Mr. Santos. No. Okay heres my point. Obviously a couple of you would like to equivocate on this a bi bit. We really, we should count everybody. But not everyoney, should be counted. In one the reasons that the case is the charge in nature the people who are residing here is noncitizens. About one third of the people oto reside here will not be here for the next census. So it makes no sense to count non citizens for proportionate purposes particularly what about six states account for half of it. General landry, are you concerned about the fact that there are states that have declared themselves sanctuary states in violation of federalio law to protect people who are residing in the country illegally . Your time is expired for the gentleman answer the question. Thankio you madam chairwoma. Yes im extremely conceed for it i been concerned about now for five or six years. And have expressed and documented wellknown statistics that show how unsafe these communities are. And that it is a Public Safety crisis. Madam chairman i could not see the clock. Your time has expired sir your time has exped. Alght mrs. Kelly you are for estions, mrs. Kelly. Thank you madam chair. I did noti know i was next. Sorry. I want to ask our witnesses about what goes into fixing the data problems that the korea staff identified a document obtained by the Committee Pay document number one includes a slide on page four title competence of patch. [inaudible]ce this slightly set a detailed 11 step process that the Census Bureau will follow to try to correct these errors. It includes developing patches to fix the errors, testing those patches basement aluminum chair could hear me . And verifying that they solve the problem. Mr. Maam, why is it important for the Census Bureau to go through each of these steps when fixing the 15 different data problems they discovered . Thank you maam for t question. The importance of this is each of these 15 critical anomalies as they refer to them are being ctical has its own set of root causes pretty tone set of problems. They need to make sure is your question implies that they get the individual fixes right. But the comprehensive patch make sure it all works together. That it can all come together again and provide an accurate count. Again this is the first step or one of the early steps in the Data Processing. They have more to do but even after the competence of patches put in place and is successful. Thank you. Let me turn to another slide in the same document. Slide seven is entitled considerations and risks. The fourth rule states is a sequence of patch deployment is not executed properly may result in other data anomalies. Why is it critical that the bureau sequence the steps for each of the data problems they discovered . Because the key points there is that subsequent databs processing is dependent upon the earlier steps. And so there is a critical path. In some cases they can do processing time obtain easily, different types of things. Theyre now at a point they cannot move forward or largely cannot move forward to a subsequent step until they have fixed everything, all preceding steps. And that is the concern they have now. Okay, the three documents the committee obtain lays out the real detailed stepbystep timeline to fix these data problems. If the bureau was forced to shortcut that process in the middle, could that impact the accuracy of sensor data . The short amp that is yes. And i think the Census Bureau professionals would certainly share that view as well. Thank you. Document one also warns on page seven that more data problems could still be discovered. It states and i quote these anomalies identified they will direct, assess additional time making required for comprehensive relief. Mr. Man given that at least two data problems were discovered in the last two d weeks, do you think it is possible that the bureau will discover additional problems over the next month theyll take more time to fix . I will go beyond that mammon says not just possible it is probable. The Census Bureau expects there will be some additionall anomalies. On thats based on history from 2010 and earlier. They are helpful these will manageable and relatively small. In which case they think they can maintain a schedule. Where they beget problematic for the Census Bureau is if many of them or depending on the significance of those anomalies. Thank you so much. It sounds to me like this is a process that cannot be rushed. The broken fix these data errors but that process must be done deliberately and carefully. With that i yield back, thank you madam chair. Thank you very much. Mr. Higgins you are now recognize for questions. Stomach thank you madam chair. Thank you madam chair, thank you for holding thi hearing. We appreciate the witnesses for appearing befe us today. Specially my dear friend attorney general from louisiana, jeff landry. My colleagues of state again and again in this hearing and others that we need to get this right. We need to get it right, the census, i would agree. But is the most significant identifier for getting it right th the American People is the question of after the census, what will happen wit apportionment regarding congressional representation and a representative repubc as that relates to illegal residents present here in america, counted for the census but use foror theurpose of proportion meant . Americans by and large that they speak to across my district and aoss the country are shocked when they are advised that this census could result and likely will result in the reapportionment of congressional representation at the expense of legal rural americans, statebystate several stes could be impacted, to the benefit of illegal residents and denser pulations in states that are identifd as sanctuary states. It is shocking to americans to think that their congress thr congressman or their Congress Woman could be district out, their state could actually lose the seat so that california could get a nether seatecause of illegal residents being counted for the purpose of apportionment. Attorney general angry,ou and ive had long conversations about the constitution. Our constitution begins with we the people of the unid states. It does not begin with we the peop of the world, or we the people of the United States plus whoever hpens to be here illegally. The person of apportionment server, can you explain h allowing illegal residents to be counted for congressional representation of portionment, how that wouldt impact america as a former congressman yourself. And you continue to serve honorably. The entire nation ought to thank you. General landry please give american overview o just how potential this the reality of this is. And what will happen. Worldly sea go theres only 435, tile american, attorney general gry what will happen if illegal residents are counted for the purpose of apportionment in the census. Well to start with, thank you congressman i appreciate it. To start off is to recognize with the goal is in reapportionment. And that is to have everyones vote to be counted the same. To have equal weight across the country in the House Speaker of representatives. So when you have a state with a larger populations of Illegal Immigrants like say california, who cant even vote in those or not supposed to vote in those Congressional Districts. But then you count them in the census, you amplify the citizens who can vote, the legal citizens in that Congressional District against you disenfranchise the them make you disenfranchise citizens in louisiana because you are amplifying the votes of those citizens against the votes of citizens say in louisiana. And therefore you are diluting those citizens in louisiana whose votes are not being granted equally say to those votes in california. And that is the problem. We should only be counting american citizens in the country in terms of reapportionment. So as we apportion congressional seats across the country, american citizens are granted equal weight across the country and representation in the House Speaker of representatives. Again, you disenfranchise say africanamericans in alabama, minnesota, ohio this year and they may lose representation in those particular states because we are including Illegal Immigrants, illegal aliens in the census count for reapportionment. Thank you. Time is expire basement venture my time is expired thank you very muchod bless you man for holding this hearing praise vic thank you. Mrs. Lawrence you are now recognize for questions. Mrs. Lawrence basement thank you so much madame chair. As you know i represent the city of detroit. And mr. Joseph in your recognize how important it is you recognize the time needed to deal with the pandemic. Second the data is transparent detail, in spite of extraordinary efforts, detroit by its own response was barely over 50 . I feared too many households were counted using less reliable methods. Example examining administrative records, interviewing neighborhoods and landlords and so on. As my concern legitimate . And if t so what could that mean for the accuracy of our final numbers . Your concern is very legitimate. Like in new york we have many neighborhoods were self response was very low. And as i have indicated, the Census Bureau is taken steps to close the gap. And in many cases those steps may not have resulted in actual contact with a household member. We need to know so we can have confidence in the census and what they haves done. We need to know how much of that happened. We need to know how many Housing Units were declared to mbe vacan vacant. Many mightve been deleted from their list. We need to know how many proxy responses were used. All of these will give us a gauge so frankly we can have confidence that the professionals have done what they need to do. I also want to state that under counting in detroit will likelyost the city 1. 3 million cdc grants to help prevent child hood led poisoning which is an issue in our city. The money could help the city test markets for lead. Knowing this and what mht be the effects of the anomi anomalies historically undercounted groups, specifically black and indigenous and other communities of color. I want to know what how can we provide against what kind of anomalies might come up in the next stage of data processes . I want to go to something that mr. Sanchez said earlier about implication about the idea that the Census Bureau needs to get a handle on how many people were living as of april 1 in the city of detroit for example. Or the city of new york. There is considerable dislocation. A lot of that we believe is temporary. But it caused a lot of confusion. People may have answered in two different locations. The censuss bureau needs time to sort this out. If they do nothe sorted out properly, the number of people that would be for example put back into detroit as of april 1 because they may havee left or been back in your city as of april 1, will be smaller than it needs to be. I mention something earlier that is not come up. Ich is on the census form itself they ask if you have eanother residence or if you live someplace else. If you live elsewhere. Itel takes time to get that information to look at administrative records to look at all of these sources paid maybe they dont have a name on the questionnaire. The burea needs the time to figure it out. Ifhey dont we could get hurt. The cityf detroit, the city of new york and the funds that go with that will also take a hit. Thank you so much. Thank you. Deal back . Ideal back. Our chair now recognizes your keller, youre now recognize mr. Keller praise vic thank you madame chair and thank you charlie witnesses for being here today. The census is an incredibly important topic. In this committees work on the matter has been essential for the hard to count peopl like the rural parts of pennsylvania. We need to ensure the Census Bureau has the resources and support it needs to successfully complete this work. By all accounts structured dealing him in the Census Bureau are on track to deliver a complete and accurateacac count. The anomalies being brought up during this hearing affect less than 631 hundredths of a of the data beingdr processed. And the director himself and said that these types of anomalies have occurred in past censuses. While i appreciate the chair holding this hearing today, the president s executive order on apportionment should not be controversial. Since we do not use data about the number of people visiting this country for the purpose of determining Congressional Districts, that same logic we should not be using the same number of illegal aliens either. Mr. Landry, what kind of discretion does executive branch have to promote equity when determining apportionment numbers . Will foremost congress has executive a tremendous amount of disetion in order to conduct the census count. And s course they have to confide with the constution as well. Until the Supreme Court has said as muchn franklin versus massachuset. So there is no questionhat excluding illegal aliens from apportionment promotes equality because it prents voter dilution. Its interesting many the tnesses say, especially as santos has consistently reiteratedn my agree with him, that people of color are being disenfranchised. But i would submit that being disenfranchised because we are including illegal aliens in the count for reapportionment. You actually mentioned the Supreme Court decision i believe that franklin v massachusetts. Could you elaborate on the importance of that decision with respect to the apportionment . Yes. So in the franklin case the Supreme Court considered whether to allow federal employees serving overseas to be counted for the purpose of their home state apportionment. And the Supreme Court said yes. That basically the secretary had the discretion to determine whether or not they wanted to be counted orou not. And they specifically said, the court specifically said the secretary wielded very atoad authority to conduct the census in a way that promotes equality. Until that grants the secretary and brought amount of discretion. It is important to recognize that it is congress, it is you all thate gave the secretary that why discretion pray thank you. I just want to followup on another thing, article one section two of the constitution uses the term whole persons with respect to apportionment. Can you clarify the difference between a whole persons in all persons . Yes. If you take justice goalie is comments where he warned against basically with statutory text, the statute should not be interpreted strictly or loosely. But basically it should be interpreted reasonably. Lets say no one is ever interpreted the phrase whole number person to include every person in the country because we dont count tourists. We dont count corporations. But yet corporations are persons as well. So again it just goes back to emphasizing the fact that congress is granted the secretary broad discretion in determining how to define and who to include and not include plates back thank you i appreciate that in the yield back. The gentleman yields back. You are now recognize. Congresswoman. Thank you so much mrs. Chairwoman. Thank you for holdi this hearing. As you may be aware, to any of the witnesses, the american mmunity survey in the small area income of the census are not inclusive of the territories ofhe United States. Even though thesereas of the United States nearly 4 million s. Citizens are included in the census. A parallel version of the American Community survey for puerto rico but not all of the other territories. And all of the territories including puerto rico of the highest poverty areas in this country are not included in the sma area income poverty estimas of the census. Ive been on record including all of these territories in data. Nsu survey are any or all ofou familiar with both those surveys . Both the American Community survey for t small area income and poverty estimates . Would any of you be able to briefly describe eachf them does briefly for us . Yeah, i work a lot with the American Community survey. It iss the bas for the description or picture ofhe picture of the socioeconomic characteristics of the nation. Information tt used to be captured on what was cled the census longform. But that census lonorm stopped in 2000. And in 2005 at the First AmericanCommittee Survey it is a very large sample of the nations population and it is use as the basis for all kinds of work, school anning, i can tell you from my agency in my position that use it for everything. Again education, income, how people travel, get to work, all kds of information that is very, very usefu. Or world planners or anyone whos interesd in the characteristics of thefo population. For us as legislatures to be able to use that information to show why our areas need or dont need funding pizza thank you very much mr. Salvo. One of the things i am concerned with is because the territories are notor included. And because we are some of the highest poverty levels in the country. That is not an estimate, that is a fact. In the primary reason we have been told that we have not been included is the lack of the territories being around funding or availability of funding. In any of your opinion, what would be the benefit of including the territories thats 4 million all of my colleagues these are american citizens not just resident citizens, but would be the benefit to us for being a part of the census for the other surveys that are done . You would have a picture of the social and economic characteristics of the areas you are talking about. Th knowledge of the Puerto Rico Community survey, in that caset is actually very thorough. An again, with a substantial sample and provide you probably with the basis for the statements you me earlr. As far as the outlying areas are concerned, that is a matter of policy. It is a matter of funding that has to be determined within the congress and appropriation needs to be made for tt purpose. But there is no question that it would benefit from understanding the characteristics of the population. That actually is a benefit to the rest of the nation. Thank you. May i just ask, the natural disasters how has that, how might that have affected census taking in the census count in areas like the Virgin Islands and puerto rico, that have not in any way near recovered from natural disasters in the past three years . [inaudible] crippled the ability to take the census in those areas. His it is tough to motivate them to participate. Even if you can send enumerators out there. So there is going to be a Lasting Impact on the inability to properly account for the citizens of puerto rico because of the disasters and the impact on the ability. Yourime has expired. Ire now recognize mrs. Muller, you areow for questions, representative muller. We can hear you. Okay im glad. Thank you. Thank you chairwoman maloney and ranking member. And i appreciate you all being here today as witnesses. As the census nears its conclusion in these coming want to commend the work that has been done by the Census Bureau to complete this years count given the difficult circumstances that have been created by the virus of the pandemic. West virginia could have easily been one of the most difficult states in the nation to complete this year census count. But instead it appears it will be a resounding success. And i would like to thank the Census Bureau for their diligent efforts during this time. I strongly support the president s action to protect the sanctity of ours te constitutionally mandated apportionment process so that all american citizens are represented fairly and accurately. I get disappointed when i think about the fact that my colleagues across the aisle and that mediate cheerleaders spent the last four years covering conspiratorial actions and ideas instead of really working on what we should be working on. And the Supreme Court is hearing arguments right now how the case that will decide the apportionment and the Census Bureau will be delivering their completed product within the next week. Attorney general landry, how will states like West Virginia , who abide by federal Immigration Laws be negatively impacted by un fair apportionment policy . Thank you. Yes. As i explained earlier, when you include illegal alis in the census count. Or theasis of reapportionment, states like West Virginia who may have a high population of Senior Citizens, those citizens have been disenfranchised by states like california that incentize illegal alienso reside and protect them in their particular p states. So basically those illegal aliens are drawn to california. And then ween count them the Congressional Districts are then weighd towards d california at the expense of virginia. E wt exactly. Can you explain why federal law does not prohibit excluding the illegal aliens fr congressional probe apportionment . Southern law wld allow us, congress has granted the secretary great discretion in order to apply tse types of facts. In fact i explained earlier on a case that the sreme court has issued under with the Supreme Court sai that thee secretary was gnted, why discretion as long as it passed the two prong test and that was numbe one of that is it ensures equality. And of course when you basically wait those who are in the country illegally, and you granthem greater weight against arican citizens, that certainly would not pass quality test that would grant the sectary the ability to exclude them in their reapportionment numbers. Is there Supreme Court precents it shows a secretary of commerce has brout discretion t determine the policy when it comes to the census in the apportionment . Yes. In the case of franklin versus massachusetts the Supreme Court reinstated the fact that congress has granted or delegated that authority to the secretary of commerce. In that authority was broadened. Could you explain how counting illegal aliens for purposes of the Apportionment Base actually creates incentives that encourage states to subvert enforcement of federal Immigration Law so that they can be awarded greater representation in the House Speaker of representatives . Yes. As i explained earlier what happens is states that have large illegal immigration alien populations they will be granted greater power on the federal stage. Greater resources will then host these at the expense of rural states that either have large senior populations or large minority populations. So again you pick a state like minnesota. Africanamericans in minnesota will be disenfranchised at the expense of california. Which has greater illegal alien population. So again it creates a system by which states are incentivized to go against the system. Too basically encourage illegal immigration and those particular states rather than abide by federal law. hat would be a constitution demand. This what my colleagues acquired. In order to do our job efctively. Policymaking and make sure that our commicants the fair share of 1. 5 trillion to support erything from Transportation System to educationnd Healthcare Infrastructure to small businesses, and to nprofits. For example, our nations most impactful antihunger program census data informs hav located budget of more than 60 million. Cross massachusetts, and in my district, one of the most unequal message to shean, nearly one in five households receive snap benefits. Food pantries like these have beenrowing even the past few months underscoring was stephanie is so important. If his footing the table f elders, are working families. In short that our children dont go hungry. The Census Bureau must take appropriateteps to process and tabulate things the programs li snap which the people who need tm w most. The ongoing pandemic has popular and absolutely essential. So as we track the path to recovery. It will serve as a criticalata for us to ensure the hardest hit communities get their share. How important is the accuracy of the 2020 census and searing shared distribution of funding. It is itrumental in the billions of dollars estimates ha been over are trillion dollars in racing over next cade, will be driven in whole or in part by census data and also in some cases for some programs democratic breakdowns by age or gender or depending on the type of program. We need to have be accurate in terms of the characteristics of them were going to adequately and sufficiently allocate federal forces. And doctor, how much occurs at the municip level. Can you elaborate on that when housing and employment how they are impacted by the census. All of my work, is done in the neighborhoods of the city. And i can give you a feel illustrations. One is that is very close my heart. When the school has to decide to redraw boundary around it, education would come to us and asked us how best do we draw this boundary so we take data to a census tract in a small Geographic Area and reassemble it with the number of schoolchildren n we supplement that of course with the American Community survey dated that was shown earlier to try to figure out how any of those childrens are relieved targeted company those childrens fall below the poverty line. We create a picture for the department of education that allows them to figure out how to optimistically serve in the district freighted now if this children are not counted for instances, and the American CommunityServices Based on the senses does not show the student to be present, we make decisions in the absence of information innocent. And so i can give you a number of illustrations like this. This is just one way and really matters in a geographic level, with the state Census Bureau has done. We need to understand it. Example, how any of those children were missing for not missing, one of the reasons why i house this is because as alluded to earlier, omissions and duplication are not generally in the same sentence. Neighborhoods do not generally have an essence to the correct number by virtue of errors in direction. Areas with large numbers of omissions cannot be in those areas with a large number of full we call erroneous enumerations free to solve this need to be quick taken into account we need to understand what the Census Bureau did afraid in order to inform our strategies. Thank you. Is a fair s to say that those communities and historically marginalized and under resourc and up into an event to be disproportionately impacted the target of those have been storically hard account, the black and latino neighborhoods and iigrant communities in my district is 40 percent foreignborn ridents and 53 percent of people of color d 40 percent of her households are single femal headed. Sophia get this right, sounds like what we will see the tsunami of her across the board. If i can answer briefly. Yes. It will continue for ten years to basically reinforce inequities. That offer preexisting like a set the next ten years. Thank youated. My naviethe ladies time has n pired but now i recognize the next person. Thank you. Before eight save my next question i do appreciate your members here and desire to ensure the integrity of the senses. In appreciate your willingness to hold additional hearings on that hundred wish you all had the same sincere desire to ensure the integrity of the 2020 election because a lot of americans expect congress to at least hold hearings to see and ensure the moving forward, we dont have any doubts about the integrity of our election. Thats whatpl this committee can do. Its your decision i strongly encourage you once again to allow us to have a hearing as soon as possible on the integrity of the 2020 election. Having said that, want to thank the attorney general jeff landry about a topic thats important in his state and all other states. In his testimony today, i hope it helps everyone haveit a bettr understanding of the president s action. Ts and excluding illegal aliens from the enforcement count. Attorney general monday spoken with the oral arguments in new york. On behalf of your state and correct. That that is correct. Can you explain why its so important that louisiana and the states involved. Because it ensures that every american are every american citizen and every american citizen in the state of louisiana and other world throughout the country, its diluted and again by county illegal aliens for the purpose of reinforcement to the franchises of the minorities in louisiana and disenfranchise the Senior Citizens in louisiana. And you canan restrict the amout of federal resources to those communities who need them the mostul in those particular stat. Those resources within eradicate and migrate to states that embrace such and ten sanctuary cities by federal law. Agent state and their vote in washington. Youll agree with that. Even though the not lawfully present, it dilutes the oasis is that correct. That is correct kargil rc car an apartment base in which to the maturing mary and the congressional enforcement asch u described in your brief. If you cant illegal aliens in the country. In which you applyhose populations have swelled in states that have sanctuary city policies. A state like new york state like california. And gain additional congressional representation at the expense of states like minnesota alabama, and ohio. And so basically youta are creating Congressional Districts that represent people who came into the country illegally and do not enjoy the rights and complete rights and privileges of american citizens. Yet they have representations in the house off representation and representaves. So you agree that the district should be are equally as anyho other persons vote in y other district. That is correct. Go ahead. Instance,s take for we all recognize this is disputed by any of the members that the secretary of commerce has h excluded people who are he in the United States on venus. Yet if f that person but then stays in the country as the point of their visa and for some reason counted. And again it serves consequences. When to agree that according to the number of persons in a state can reasonably be excluding illegal aliens who were residing in the state. Absolutely in the secretary at the discretion to defend that. Let me conclude by saying this. I think the over whelming majority of americans agree with what you said attorney general that the position of the republicans on this committee have taken anden hopefully supre court and Trump Administration will be able to do the right thing on can congressional reinforcement and thank you again frequently today. Thank you. Youre not recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairwoman. Thank you all for being here. I want to make sure the chairwoman andnsure that all of the folks testifying today are letts that i sent along with on this committee to the director of the Census Bureau about some of the really great unbelievle concerns and allegations that we have seen him out and results of the 2020 senses in michigan. And in detroit, the overa rose about1 percent which is more than any other large city in the tion. 1. 4 percent as low as. Can you explain, what is the main, personally. [inaudible]. And replying directly. Is been a combination of that man. The paper form, but also been a huge response option on the internet. They design it. Almost 80 percent of the responses that they got, herself responses it for through the internet. So it absence of self response, the next strategy is to employ the protocols and thgs like that. So that they can get a more accurate count. One of the processes that they have in place. So the 31 big step was to re several thousand hundred census takers naturally to knock on doors. If they were successful in Committee Member of the family and the membersrs of the residee rather, they would complete the case the. And if they were unsuccessful, they would either use a proxy thats a knowledgeable person our neighbor that cld complete that and also suffer with the administrative and the income of neither of those work, there would be a very small category le over. [inaudible]. You should know that in droit, 100,000. [inaudible]. In doing and during that stage, that we talked about. The Census Bureau in the resource of parking, the average multiple timesf average programs and in detroit, multiple senses. [inaudible]. They come forward and everybody counted. I wonder if t bureau can follow the protocols to provide the necessary decisions. With one u. S. Census, have publicly said he was at since his work her, new by county to my distrt. And i represent. The focus in that cnty would be handled extremely well. [inaudible]. He said addional work was eded. Specifically what i found was when i reached out, the detroit senses, they did not even starte yet. [inaudible]. Ey are waiting on work and they have not received any cases in yet these are Census Bureau workers in detroit. They were assigned to detroit. Theyve also indicated that as r as unsafe and unorganized and funding organizing these cases beyond 5 00 p. M. , were put until in my bag until 8 00 p. M. And run a hundred thousand detroit households is needed to be contacted,here was. [inaudible]. So why is the flowup so important. The self response provides the Research Shows the research. When the numerators going to skip, and as was indicat just now, there are a whole numr of optionshat can rule the day speak. For example, the used of administrative records to determine whether a union is occupied or n afraid and looking a Postal Services. I dontean but like, as far as the accuracy and think thats what you were trying to say. But what if the processes any oths are working to see with tt number is. And you know, comnities like mine are going to be counted because obviously they dont ha the same standards in detroit and other areas. And again, a number of communities of color. It. It does lead to a higher probability, there is no question. Is been established. And what we have to figure out though is whether every senses as people who come forward. The metrics that were mentioned before they were endorsed by the associations, and an Advisory Committee will give us a look into that world. Its apparent data is what is daferred to, data about the process. Thathe information will give usa glimpse to what you are talking about. That is one of the reasons why we have to get it because if were going to have confidence that detroit was properly enumerated, we need to get her hands on that information. That will tell us. And chairwoman, if i may i have to go. I would like to make sure that this comes out it looks like him waiting for that information to come out. I really urge ourrg committee to place the very key leadership role because i think what happened in detroit was intentional on this part of the administration. And having enough boots on the ground to get folks back to work again. 51 percent of the Response Rate so they not have enough work and going on for hours. I just do think that we need to fully investigate. Is a good point where needed your time is expired. Our last questionnaire is vice chair. Jimmy. You are now recognized brain. Thank you manager. I really appreciate that we a having this hearing. The senses that we care about and since i got to cgress and its somethinghat we haveeen working on. A lot of my worst fears came true. My district, is in downtown los angeles. E Response Rate was very low the lowest one and probably o of the most once nationwide. Weve been concerned a have been asking for documents from the Census Bureau or the Commerce Department time and time ain. I get the documents and hear about the issue from the press is really disheartening. I haveome questions that i want to get into regarding another perspective. Has the Census Bureau provided allhe information to gao that you requested about thatt data anonymously found. No sir, they have not criticism is the Census Bureau. It is from senior since officials prevents under review by the general counsel the department of commerce saying the department of justice is being bound up with litigation. Is the bureau provided details about the number of the problems that they have identified read assuming mr. They have not created a again, for the same rsons. Is the 31 time the Census Bureau or the department of commerce has withheld i information and declined to answer questions about the 2020 senses. Theres always back and forth about with the decision role is and all the rest freighted and this is certainly but what i can say its gotten problematic in recently. Since the middle of the summer is been very difficult to get information. We have not been flat out denied anything. But things are taking extraordinarily long amount of time. Were still waiting for detailed information since august. On thede replan of on, which are. In particular on how the Census Bureau was going to be able to originally was a hundred and 50 day plan process, they headed down to 90 and now a statutory damages 77 days. We just wanted to know how theyre going to be able to do that. And we are waiting for that information asyo well. See waiting for information on the plan that they were supposed to explain and ahead of time right before they did it. And they never provided it. And now its over and the cat is done. And youe, still have not receivd any of thatl information predefined that alleviating apart an example. This isfo Census Bureau and experts that reviewed the census data. [inaudible]. And less time on the basis of these reviews, every single state had to have the numbers rerun. It doesnt mean that there were errors that they identified questions that were sufficient concern and rerun the numbers. The internal statelevel experts has been reduced this time around. We want to know what if anything is been cut out of that or when they doing to make sure that it will still be a quality review. Again were waiting in the department of commerce. I am glad you brought it up phrase because some folks might in california mentioned that state review. By the demographers. We are really concerned about that how that will have an impact soap thank you for bringing that up. We know in the past year is provided recommendations to the bureau to address the workflow schedules. And over the past two years have a recommendations has the bureau given to the Census Bureau. We had over 1120 recommendations. Just on that fedel census. And im happy that the great majority of those have been accepted by the census o bureau. And we have been abl then to ve had it substances approvals as a result of that. Getting us access to the information is helpful to us. It is good from a transparency standpoint but also helps us identify tarted and specific improvement opportunities which hare experiences shown this hes senses. It doesnt just give us access between aicle one and article two issues. This obsessed actually help the bureau in from undertaking of the sentence. And you mentioned, a rough number that theyve accepted and implemented at the recommendation. Over 90 of them have been accepted. There w a 120. And there are a number of them outstanding. In the rept that we are issuing today that talks about the need for the transparency on the data that weve been discussi all throughout this meeting freighted that is one that the Commerce Department accepted that recommendation. So wereoping it will be implemented as well. So i so much and i know chair, the investigative just to cause problems or take action or to improve the process print so want to thank you. Also the chairwomans efforts to think critical documents from the department of commerce and also add that the committee can send a letter of the information that gao is seeking as well. Thers no reason that this committee should not echo what is going on within the senses bureau Data Processing operation as well as the state demographers when it comes to their request for information on how that is impacting and how much information theyve done and what is been cut out we know that they been holding the documents from us and basically heaving them from the judiciary. They invented a it. And some documents from gao, more transparency. Ipod the chairwoman again. [inaudible]. The gentlemans time is expired. But i want t give him a chance to offer any urgent pots. Youre now recognize. Thank you manager again. Its our responsibility to hold nsarings to ensure the integrity of the 2020 senses. Its unfortunate that we didnt have any witnesses from the other bureau. From the staff and the employees the Census Bureau. I think that allhe data we been given him a proves that everytng is going according to plan. Rdand i appud the director. I think he has been transparent with both the democrats and the republicans on the committee. And i loo forward to getting thatns data and hopefully will e able too it. If thats what the majority of americans want. Will have accurate count of every Single Person in america. D we will have a count that is used for can rational reinforcement that excludes all undocumented people. Thats what the market people wanted thats what our position is. His minority on that committee on that oversight comttee and i hope we will be able to achieve that. Without manager. Todays witnesses, the 2020 senses is in grave danger. Since his experts testify today the data errors identified by career officials at the Census Bureau are serious and must be fixed. And one bit of the Trump Administration cut short the process to fix these problems, the senses count risks being inaccurate and incomplete. We call this hearing because the Trump Administration refused to share information with this committee about these Critical Data errors. When you learn about these major problems from reading in thero newspaper. When i asked for documents about these problems, these problems at the Commerce Department blocked them. Thankfully, we were able to rely on other sources to get at least some of these internal documents. So just to reachdo out. The secretary and we gave him one week to produce a complete and unredacted set of documents and we requested that last month. And he could very well face a subpoena if he does not. As i said earlier, we will be complies voluntarily. But am open to calling in the secretary ross to testify under oath before this committee if it does not produce the documents that we requested. In closing, i want to think of families for the remarks i dont want to commend my colleagues for participating in this important hearing. With that, without objection, you five additional days to submit questions. Theyll be forwarded to the witnesses for the response. And i asked her witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able. This hearing is adjourned. And we are off to another meeting. With coronavirus cases increasing across the country, is a website cspan. Org coronavirus to follow the trends. Track the spread with interactive maps and watch updates on demand, anytime a cspan. Org coronavirus. You are watching cspan2, your unfiltered view of government. Created by americans Cable Television company is a public service, and brought to you today by your television provider