Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jeffrey 20240704

Is aprofound new way of looking at the history of atlanta. And so its only fitting that his first author talk in atlanta, be here at the Atlanta History Center are many of you all already have read the book, but some of you all might not might not be aware of his background. But professor ober is, a professor of history, and hes also the founding director of the center for the study popular music at the university of and he received his ph. D. From indiana university, bloomington and he received his undergraduate degree a bachelor of art in history from, Morehouse College and. Hes previously written two books. His first book was black power radical politics and African American identity, and he wrote hip hop revolution. The culture and politics of rap. So this is his third book. And having read his first book, it was a great book. But this book broke new ground. And without further ado, i want to welcome to the stage dr. Jeffrey oji obaa. Good everyone to say its a pleasure to be here would be an understatement. I know sounds cliche, but when i was writing this book, i had these sort of aspirations and dreams and i told the marketing guy at basic books that when we talked about doing the tour, i said, there is a there are a lot of places in atlanta where d like to give a talk. I love the atlanta center. And i was like, oh, okay, great. You know, and weeks went by and he was like, yeah. I said, hey, whats up . These places like, oh, man, im trying, but you know, i cant, you know, they got to wait after the holidays. I said, okay so then the book came out in november and, then december. I was like, well, you know, was up and hes like, amy, you know, we tried, but, you know, theyy f things going on. And then rodney strong stepped in and rodney strong was like, well make it happen. In fact, he was so enthusiastic and so generous that he came to me and he said something that i never and ill say this, i dont mean to sound like characteristically, i genuinely never thought at a two term in the history of atlanta in 170 plus years that the mayor whos gotten more votes cast by the citizens in the entire history of all the mayors in atlantas 60 plus mayors was the honorable madam Shirley Franklin it. ■i. I was told i was writing i bring this down and and it turns out that the mayor franklin happened to come across the book as she reached out to to rodney and said she really it and then she said again, im getting into the book. Im really enjoying it. And he sent me a tweet. I was like super excited. I merely ran out. I ran to social media, hey, look, look, look what mayor franklin said about my book was, like, super excited. And so so he was like, hes like, you call, me up. Hes a man show, you know . So. But we might be able to do something, but, you know, just keep a chill for a little bit, right . And we might be able to do something. And there are three places where i think we be able to do it. And Atlanta History Center, his number one choice. I didnt actually it was your choice although it had always been i would like to have a book launch and i say enough what it means to look into the crowd and see people who are so important to so many institutions in the city of atlanta in so many different ways. It means a lot to see so many people here. Im extraordinarily humbled, have this stage and share with mayor franklin the generosity. Rodney strong theres so many people i could name many people friends and family who are here and i thank you all for coming out. The generosity again from griffin is strong and from the russell company. Thank you. Gue, many others i to start by saying that the is itself a long arc of the history of atlanta and there are many books in fact i would argue that there are few cities that have as many books dedicated to histories than atlanta pound for pound and atlanta has an extraordinary corpus literature dedicated but to but there are a lot of the histories are to certain places right so there are books that are solely committed to the siege of atlanta in 1864 during the civil war. Fantastic. That go into great detail right . There are books that solely are committed to the Civil Rights Movement and some are committed to just certainanizations, the Civil Rights Movement. Right. So there are books that look at so many Different Things. And theres a general idea from the scholarship that many of us in the room have heard this atlanta, a city too busy to hate. And that actually up in the literature and, you know, im born in chicago, raised in los angeles. I came here,raw attention to wh. Strong talked about where i went to school. He paused for dramatic effect. I said Morehouse College, like a true morehouse man, visually large mans would be proud. And so so so but when i came to atlanta in in 1987 and■ i saw a city that was much blacker than anything id ever seen in chicago or los angeles, and just the proportion of people there were more black people in los angeles, more black people, chicago than atlanta. The proportion in 1990, the census had atlanta at 67, 67 black. L. A. , maybe 18 . And so maybe a third at that time. And so it was an extraordinarily black city. And at that point, i saw across the city at morehouse, there was lee street. They went past morehouse i saw civil war markers. I was too poor to live on campus. I lived in decatur my freshman year, first semester, freshman year in decatur. And on my way on that memorial bus, i saw markers for the civil war, confederate stuff. And then on my way to decatur, i saw all these signs for stone. I like stone mountain, like, one mountain. And you have these these confederates and White Supremacists and enslavers who are terrorists. Who are these up in this . And people are just chilling right. And then i was like, this is kind of hard to one be the black mecca and then have monuments, streets and neighborhoods named after why supremacists and enslavers and terrorists. I was like, this seems kind of you know, im saying in same different but i want to make sense of it and it was kind of hard so. I was always curious about how atlanta came to be, but theres no book there really bothers because. There are books that talked about this and that, but this book actually looks at the long arc of the city from its beginnings in the antebellum period until 2023. And so i it all the way up and i interview people and its no im saying a whole bunch about wrongness wrong but in all honesty, rodney strong has been dismissive certainly for the second part, the last part of this, and i spent more time interviewing rodney song with morehouse, with his cousin, and at least wrong man was instrumental connecting us. And i thank you for that. Thank you for your time. And im really glad that like the finished product what i want to do now is talk about the book and give you five major takeaways of the book and see if i can in about 25 minutes, give you some, some examples of what has been over these years. First all of us of all of us familiar with the the city too busy to hate was mayor hartsfieldthe was a city too bue and it kind of is stuck and a lot of people would like is a city to busy hey were making all these moves and we aint got time to be blowing up churches, killing people and stuff because we making money and so i was like, you know me just listen what the historical record says and and when i looked at historical and again anyone who knows me and, there are some people here who know me well, i always say this. Im trying to be dispassionate about the data. Lets say what . Lets look at what the data tells us. And it turns. So many people are surprised that of all these cities in the United States of america and all the cities in the south are recalcitrant, who are obstinate, who hostile to desegregation, that whewn ite atlanta we havee image of ruby bridges, that little girl in new orleans. Right, with federal marshals. We have the images of those little kids from rock central high. Those nine children, that little girl isolated from the other eight walking in a horde of vile, horrible, hateful little kids and adults, grown adults. And we have these images and like, hey, atlanta doesnt have those images. We have the images of rosa parks and the right we have the images of dr. Arrested because he was in this boycott. We have these images, but we dont have those images for atlanta. And weve heard this, a city too busy, to hate, turns out. And we know birmingham andose f. So we know about birmingham and we know about Dynamite Hill and birmingham and birmingham. It turns and im not the first persono rticular fact about burg man. Turns out that there was a Civil Rights Organization in the 1960s that looked at resist and to the Civil Rights Movement and looked at terrorist attacks, looked at bombings. It turns out that atlanta had more terrorist bombings in birmingham. Did we look at the school system. The reason we dont have the images is because atlanta did not segregate its Public School system. We didnt have a ruby bridges. We wed have a little rock now because atlanta stay far. They were like the governor said, i will close all the schools down before i integrate right. The absence of the images did not mean that there was a presence of justice. Right. And so what you have in these distorted narrativeinating. I was like, how is it that atlanta has been the city that we hear all the stuff about but the facts on the ground suggest otherwise . The busses in atlanta were integrated a year after the busses in montgomery. In fact, the picture of rosa parks sitting there finally sit on the bus. You can do that in atlanta at that time. You still can do it. Atlanta and king was from he didnt come here to desegregate the busses or anything. Right. And i love. King im i anything but but the fact is that atlanta was more recalcitrant than these other cities in many respects, scientifically, if we look at integration of schools with integration of neighborhoods, we think about the we think about grady hospital. We go through this whole line of metrics of the in the United States of america, atlanta almost always is at the bottom, which is fascinating. But yet is a city too busy to so i want to see how we get that city into the city in 2024, atlanta, 2024 is a first city in the history of the United States of america, a major city to have for 50 years now. And newark, new jersey, has a nonafricanamerican mayor and acting mayor for a period. You could throw newark there if you want, right . We had a nonafricanamerican mayor, but atlanta, if you dont count that short period. L. A. Is the first city in the United States of america. Go 50 years straight with a black mayor, right . No United States has ever done before. Atlanta has given. Yourselves alalaws. But but atlanta also in addition, having all these accolades about the business successes, highest concentration of black millionaires, high concentration of black owned businesses africanamericans are now about 50 of the population, over 50 . Police officers over firefighters, they are over 50 of the 75 . The teachers. Last i checked, the City Administration is disproportionately africanamerican, africanamerican have a firm control of the social, economic, political in atlanta in ways you dont see any other city. So the question is, and over the last years, no city in the drawn more people this metro than atlanta, right by far. So atlanta now 2024, there are more black in a metro area than any metro in the United States of america, except for new york city. And so theres no fundamental transfer station from atlanta. And this book explore that. Im still curious. I was curious like how that happened, but im a surprised everyone here. Im a im a real excerpt and this to be while this will be real crazy, ill tell you about what atlanta was like and its origins like we all have an origin story all right each of us individually we all have origin stories. Cities have origin stories. And the origin story for atlanta really demonstrates the improbable, capable future that we eventually and im going to talk about. A lot of peoe dont know this. I know this. And so and im actually embarrassed to say i should i should keep this to myself i should ask just keep this with me. Andi didnt i got to have a ps2n history. History. Im a i do u. S. Re since 1865. So thats my my savings saving grace that i didnt know this, but we are one of the most celebrated president s of the United States was Abraham Lincoln and lincoln is celebrated by so many people all across the country and we think of lincoln this two term president of course, tragically assassinated in the beginning of his second term, Abraham Lincoln was about to lose his his pursuit for the second term. So in the middle of the war, the war began in 1861. And im read a little bit about that. But atlanta was central to how Abraham Lincoln won reelection. It was critical to how Abraham Lincoln won reelection. Abraham lincoln was very, very clear. His the people in his inner circle, people in his own cabinet thought that he was too weak kneed. They thought that he was too milquetoast, thought that he did not have the backbone, the military expertise and ability to command the troops they thought that he was too soft on the confederates and these traitors against, the United States. And there were people in his party, including a man named john fremont, had been a general who was fired by Abraham Lincoln because he issued an 1861 a year before lincoln came of the emancition proclamation in fall 62, and it was implemented on january 1st, 63, Abraham Lincoln fired a general because this general said, i will issue a for masturbation of these people who are enslaved in my military and in missouri. And lincoln was like, rescind that freedom. Im not going to rescind that. Hes like i said, im the commander in chief. Rescinded he didnt do it. He fired him. And then a year later, he has this thing. But people thought he was too weak kneed. People said that hes not that when the war and himself confided in his closest folks that i may lose this war, he, le frederick douglass, i think im going to lose reelection. Lets see if we could get together a clear Decision Group to go in and free as many people as we can. And some like underground army. Right. So he was really trying to do this. He changed. He was not about that life early on, but towards the end, lincoln had to have had some moral relatory moments. All right. So so lets lets look at how ilana responded to the beginning of the war this is this is your city. This is your city. And see how your predecessors, what they would talk about in when the war began, the local newspapers were about what the war portend for the city and the region i quote upon point, he is perfectly plain. Atlanta intelligencer newspaper wrote about lincoln. He decides war. We are prepared to meet it. We are united and homogenous. This as a people every man. The south is a soldier unquote. The paper wrote in classic form the 44 of the states population that was black and almost entirely held in chains, or the 35 of people in the region south in similar the paper concluded that the confederacy was a formidable military force and the citizens of would rise up to serve with alacrity as article concluded. We say to lincoln and his more minions come on. And they were ready for fight right . A month later, the gate city guard left service in florida, where the confederates plan to surround, if not capture a u. S. Military installations, including fort pickens, pensacola, the atlanta and the trout hotel. Two of the main hotels in the city were with excitement as thousands of atlantans cheered and, gathered celebrations, the rebels, as they went off to war. The city was ready to support white southern nationalism with force. In 1861, scores of cities from hapeville, maine, to quincy, illinois, including more than a dozene more populist than atlanta. Despite a small, small population atlanta was an important cog in the confederate war machine. By 1863, the york times reported that the city was an important network, quote, furnished and it furnished half of war material to entire confederacy from the rappahannock to the rio grande, unquote,haits third year surpriy people and people on both sides that the war would have been over by then. So so at point, the New York Times is very clear that. Atlanta is important to the machine. And i want to draw your attention to one quick fact before i go back to this. When confederacy seceded, when states seceded and formed the confederacy in 1918 61, beginning in south carolina, 1816 and 1861, they needed a capital and they looked at literally hundreds of possibilities throughout the south. And there were two finalists, richmond and georgia. So atlanta almost the real capital of the south. But richmond was decided the Vice President for the confederacy, was actually from alexander stephens. And one of the things he argued was that we needed virginia, the confederates needed virginia because they had this Large Population of military age men and did not, in fact, the political capital. But as well see here, it became a capital for the confederacy. Other ways. The intelligence in newspaper, like people in the north and south, understood critical importance of the city. So the wars there was, quote, no greater prize in the confederacy outside of richmond. Robert oconnell notes quote, if the south had a workshop for and then johnson who was a general for confederacy, said, should atlanta fall fearful indeed will be the response ability. The richmond of virginia is virginia, but the political richmond is a political richmond but the richmond in georgia is important. Hich atlanta means that if atlanta collapses the confederacy, a war machine will collapse. And therefore the war effort will collapse. So when all this is on the United States seems to be in a stalemate, the war was on, lincoln was up for reelection. There. People who were in his own party saying that de cut. And lincoln said this. You said, i am going to be a beaten man unless some great change happens and it happens quickly in their oppressive summer heat of georgia in 1864, williams to sherman, patiently establishing campmates along the stretch of the city and began brutal siege. This is one of the biggest sieges in modern war up to this point, if not the biggest. They laid waste to the cto quotd that whatever becomes of atlanta, it will be left a desolation. And theres a really cool quote that confederates would not like, but i enjoy. And this is a quote from William Tecumseh sherman when he came to atlanta, the of Atlanta Brown was like everybody to throw everything they have against these invading vandals, these yankee vandals up to no good. And if you have a rock, throw a rock at them. If you got sticks, sticks at them, you show them that that we stand for southern nationalism and everything else. So so said this, he said as he came in, he said, im paraphrasing here. He said, confederates are to say that they are willing to die, in a pool of their own blood and give up an inch to the yankees. Im here to allow themselves to be true to their word. And. So the war was devastating to the city. The war destroyed the city and came to an end and one of the things that happened in, the war, however, it disrupted racial politics of the city and very, very ways. I wont get a chance to talk a lot about about this now, but there are a number of figures that become important to africanamericans in the city. The first black landowner in the city, atlanta, was a woman who was born in 1865. And in augusta she her name was laura kelly. Laura kelly moved to atlanta with a white doctor. There was a was a typhoid or some sort of outbreak. And this guy dr. Alexander moved to atlanta and he a servant with him. And this black woman came no black person could enter the city of atlanta. Lana was so hostile that no black person could enter the city of atlanta without approval from the city council. But if they came in and they were here five days without approval, they could be arrested and leased to work white people. So, in effect, enslaved. So you do not declare yourself in five days with approval. You could be enslaved. Atlanta also the black people were here, there were there was one family. The lucky solomon lucky was the first wealthy black person in atlanta history. Solomon owned a barber and a sort of spa, the atlanta hotel. And it wasnt bizarre that a city that literally outlawed black organization, any sort. There could be no black social club. There were illegal, no black were allowed. They were illegal. Obviously, schools black people are not allowed to learn how to read or write. Write if. They did. They were, in fact,t scribe so all of these things were the sort of environment of laina would happen though, which is interesting is that in the fog of war, these africanamericans were there during the siege found operating without the constraints of law as sort of this of Civil Society eroded around them. There was one black guy who became webster, who became, by many cases, one of the wealthiest people in the city of atlanta, who was a quasi he was quasi enslaved. And this guy became this this wealthy guy who did all sorts of things. I tell the story. Its too much to say here. Lets go back to laura combs just very quickly. Laura combs is a black woman who ended up moving to atlanta. She all the about 99 of black people were ene. So she found this man named john john combs. John combs was enslaved. These two white women who inherited him. Right. As a child. And john combs, a slave by these two women. And mary kelly fell in love with a guy. They fell to free him. It was against the law in georgia for someone to a black person to buy anyone who was enslaved. So the two white women made a deal with laura combs. Keep in mind, in 54, she became the first black landowner in the city. She got a parcel of land lots we have documented. And she turned this over to the combs sisters and the combs sisters, in effect gave her her husband and she left augusta and we left atlanta and then went to augusta fast her that alexander dr. Alexander, who he was a guardian who helped her buy that land. That dude became a hardcore confederate right. He served in the military a surged as a doctor. He came back and he established a Medical Center. Medical center became emorys Medical Center right. Her children, her son actually served in the military one of her sons, served in the military became a band guy in military and and anyone who knows anything about the history of jazz. We know the jazz emerged in new orleans but had his origins with africanamericans, with military experience. He was one of those guys. He moved to new and this guy became the first generation of jazz innovators in the world. Right. He actually had another son who graduated from morris brown and became a professor and another son is the craziest part right here. Another son who went to russ college and then started dating this young lady student, and her name was ida. Her name was out of barnet. And so but check this out is not in tts daddy ida burnett and then hes like, you know what, ida . Cool. You know, you all good . Everything but i want to break you. I want to break up. And she heart is broken and he has a mary, a woman in town and. She talks and the biography of ought to be well says that ought to be wells was so heartbroken by the reminding by being constantly reminded of this love by seeing this man with his wife in this little town in mississippi that she refused to engage in a commitment to any person in a state, committed herself and threw herself into work. And in the process became this investigative journalist. She became this person who fought to get the most famous american goes listening. She became friends with frederick douglass, friends with one with dubois. She, of course, you know, this new book. She had these amazing things, but she married her thirties, was very late at the time but she is so heartbroken to her biographer because of laura collinss son, who broke her heart. All right. But alana is everywhere right up. And so i wanto tell this one story about how black people came to atlanta quickly after the war. And then im a jump all the way up to the 1950s. This is a fascinating about a term that i use. I introduce in this book called afro determinism and. People were even pedestrian, if youre familiar with afroAmerican History,youll knw about what about to talk about, right. So and scholars typically look at afroamerican positions as fallingj[ the nationalist camp, which is like Marcus Garvey and you and i the nation of islam, where they say black people will get freedom by creating their own separate black nation state, political sovereignty, their own government or military on paper, money, everything right, black everythingelse. Then you have a position of integration which some there are some c. P. Would believe in this but the idea. So to paraphrase these some advocates of integration that they hope to see africanamericans as woven into the fabric of the united much in the way that european immigrants like irish poles and were woven into the fabric of america. Right . This idea that we get kind of subsumed into americanism. And then theres another position a more conservative position that we all know associate with, because the washington accommodation was more conservative. Im going be an activist like the naacp. Im going be a nationalist like these, you know, nation of islam or malcolm or garvey. Im just just to accommodate the situation to the best i can with the circumstances in front of me. But i argue theres a fourth position. And this fourth position, i argue, is the minant exsion not for black folks in atlanta, but certainly for africanamericans. After the black power. And the position is s have of , 40 acres and a mule. It turns out that this is, again, tied to the atlanta experience in chapter three, the shaman comes to atlanta, destroys it, does a smart, sassy, gets to savannah, but right before he gets to savannah, has a general under him whos, ironically name■d his name literally is jefferson davis. Hes a union right now, not the confederate president. And this do have as a just he does something really horrible to a whole bunch of black folks who i just it just really, really terrible thing. The federal government finds out that he did this terrible thinfs pulls a bridge up and they drown in water. And these confederates lay these women and children just a horrible, horrible. So the secretary of war comes down to savannah and says, general sherman, thank you for being this formidable general, youre kicking and taking names. I love. I leave and these dudes called and, you know, hurt. I like what youre doing to these conferates. This is great. But we that you are in fact anti. The word racism didnt exist yet but you like i heard theres your anti and hes like what do you mean its a. And i likese , you know . I mean, i heard this. Youre out here killing this officer. Hey, man, watch this. So actually invites 20 black men in 20 black men who are can see seen as leaders in the savannah. And theyre coming from all over and in moment in savannah in the early in january of 1865, he asked them the secretary war stanton asked them a series questions. And among these questions he asked him, where do you want to the black community in relation to whites and and the major speaker the group is a guy named garrison frazier gearshift frazier, whos a minister. Hes like, you know. What . I know. Im speaking for the whole group for every youve asked me, but for this question i chooseo answer it for my own position because i dont want to offend anybody, you know. So, you know, caucasians, you i dont want to offend you. Im going to say how i think so they said speak freely. So you say, ■hthle two things. I think that wont find black people more than a handful among. The millions across the souto ae United States. He hes okay. Theyre willing to serve in the right to show fidelity to the United States and the presence upon which the United States stands. But i think they also would like to have land for their own that right now. They dont believe thwill belien justice. Fair ness, democracy or anything and that we would be best served by controlling institutions, force abbl in our own community. And we would like some land. And so hes like okay. Cool. Let me ask other people and everything go person thated jas. Ironically his last name cant make this up. His last name is lynch. It is. Do swear to god is the craziest thing like that happens right . So if theres a novel, you think this is ridiculous, right . Its like this all on the nose. But this dude is one guy named jason lynch. Obliged. Hes like, hes like, no, no way. Southerners are great. We dont have any problem. White southerners. They can be. I dont believe in all that about having separate land and everything. We have a we should be integrated with the white people here. They can be our friends. And you know, jason lynch was wrong. As we find out, lynch was real wrong. But this is what happened. This meeting. Stanton told he told general shermans sherman, i heard these people. You heard these people. You need to do. He said, bet im a come up with a policy. He thought about it and came up policy said they want land, they want to control their own institutions. I am giving them 40 acres. There was no mule actually. Ill give you 40 acres. So all these confiscated from all these traders who have turned themselves their own country. And thats where i actually comes from. And it where to this narrative. All right, drop glasses. All right. So now im going to jump up to the in the war and then well see. All right. Here we have atlanta had been a small town before the war, but expanded in the years to black e people into profound ruptures, forced into existence, profound of racial order, black, unfettered by enav moved about the streets, rolled streetcars cars, peddle goods open and businesses homes. They forged new sense of collective self in the city, free black citizens in a world that only recently consider the concept to be a front to law and nature. Despite the promise of atlanta, the majority of georgias black population remained in rural areas. Some, however with no promise of fu employment or even greater justice struck for the gates city in hopes that they will find a wider sense of Freedom Community safety. An opportunity migrations. The city was not exclusive to black people. Many local whites were particularly hostile black newcomers. Many use alarmist language to describe the flocking to atlanta white. Observers complained that they that their cities, that their city was being overrun by crowded, packed by these worthless , unquote. In addition to the sheer numbers of black people in the city, the notion that these people were solute control of white enslavers was especially troubling. The presence of black people is not unusual for most white southerners, but the sight of free black people evoke discomfort, if not outright rage and fear. Nearly half of the city in 1870 was black, for context, into the 19th century. As late as 1930, africanamericans were single digit percentage of chicago, new york, los angeles, other cities. So single digits. These other places around 19 tan, they were the average percentage was about 2. 7 in cities outside. So half is extraordinary at that time. When you think the cities across the south and this is important here to this idea of force of termism and what people did in atlanta in the late 19th century across the south, the significance of the july 4th diminished as a confederacy form, its own nationalist identity, and new republic following the war, july reemerged in atlanta as a vibrant, vibrant affirmation of american nationalism and freedom however and this is critical here, it was dominated by the citys black citizens. The atlanta daily intelligencer described the festivals and the festivities of fourth 1867, two years after the war. In was surrender almost entirely, if not wholly, to by our citizens of the population who appeared our streets in the high state of enthusiasm many amidst throngs from the early morning, a late hour in the paper thats my soun accent, as you guys could tell. The paper reported how atlantas citizens had been marginal ized. This was this. The paper reported how atlantas citizens had been marginalized by the population who organized conspicuous oaths to freedom. The and their own american citizenship in some ways, these gatherings were subvve in, bold black atlantans. This 1867 in grand public spectacle subvert, its southern nationalism by pedes by confede. For example, a group of africanamerican is from the citys third ward organized, the Lincoln Union Republican Club one banner from the fifth ward read the death of slavery july 4th, 67 for the citys white and black citizens. Civil and National Pride was deeply marked by the legacy of the confederate. For black people, the size and character of the city, including the federal troops, afforded new expressions ofthese were part ol civic body that never before existed. Any pleasure allegiance. The united. And he made that quite clear. Keep mind there was a presence of u. S. Soldiers in atlanta at that time which allowed them to do this with some protection. At the same time, after his celebrated independence day, thousands of White Atlantans gathered annually on april 26. Im not sure how many people here know what april 26 signifies to celebrate confederate memorial day. Like the groups of neoconfederate and confederate sympathizers across the south, locals adorn cities, graves of fallen rebels and parades, heard speeches and otherwise exhaust the lost cause. For their part black atlantans. In addition to july, they said, were going to add another to our celebration in the civic space they created july four first as emaip day, the anniversary of the emancipation proclamation was an opportunity to celebrate and honor the legacy of Abraham Lincolns war time attempt to liberate many people fromry. Africanamericans marched to the streets, american flags, and joyfully brought in the new year while affirming their own deliverance from hundreds of years of bondage. So its kind of interesting to see how atlanta, in many ways found this space to carve out an articulation of blackness that was tied. One to their own freedom and in many ways disregard the celebration of confederate legaci and it was particularly in the late 19th century, one of the things that i think many people were surprised by im a jump all the way up quickly to the 1950s, and i earlier in the talk that atlanta was this sort of like backwards when it came to civil rightss really surpriso most people. Almost everyone here weve all heard the term gentrification right. So gentrification was by a scholar who was studying the process of high socioeconomic status, people moving into low socioeconomic status neighborhoods in britain. Shes looking at on white gentrification. And so gentrification was never tied to race americans have a really difficult time, race and class. We cant sort of collapse blacks as being poor and whites as being affluent. But but keep in mind that gentrification is strictly defined. Higher socioeconomic status move people into a lower economic status neighborhood. All right, so now lets at atlanta. So after world war to the United States, the four housing administration, you have this we have four fha loans. You have guarantee loans with authority. All the United States by law, by federal law, they cannot. And the term is not to violate the 14th amendment, as is lawyer as counselor, strong will say here, they dont violate the forcing the member because they dont say these loans cant be made to black people. They say that loans be made to people who will disrupt the racial integrity of our right. Orhood. So so so what it means, like if you are a veteran of the war you serve war, say youre part of the 442nd japaneseamericans you came back, you killed a whole bunch of nazis. Your arm got blown up. Youve done everything. You got all these honors, everything. You cant get a guaranteed loan from the government in anaheim because its not majority asian, right . It would be racially subversive. You cannot get a loan in any of your neighbor american. Youre a code talker, right . You help defeat the japanese and you cant because youre not white, cant go to a suburb. So suburbia became all white across the United States. The consequence not because people dont want to move there. They cannot they get a loan. Right. So but the thing is, keep in mind, you could do it. There was a loophole if you were able to build a suburb, if you had a bank, if you had money, if you had development companies, if you had real estate agents, if you had this whole economic, financial that was willing to make it happen anfrom ground upl asian, all black, all neighbor american, you can make it happen. It didnt happen in los anges, my hometown. It didnt happen in chicago. It happened atlanta. Lets hear about it. And why it is now. Well, the early 1950s, africanamericans and this chapter talks about the resistance. Morehouse in the west, in and in western is super black and everything. But the west end used to be a point for integration in the klan in the west. And they said they want to build a big white wall in the west end. So keep out. Right. They were shooting in houses, aka blowing up houses, all kind of stuff, right . It were wild out. And so at this point when all this is on, africanamericans decide something, say we need space, we want to create a we will create new homes by the early 1950s. And keep in mind, early 1950s montgomery bus boycott doesnt have a 1955. Right. So in this like late december 55, since the early 1950s, africanamericans definitely into motion project x with the help of local blackue to the largest, most extensive upscale black suburban development in the country. In the postwar period, the city had two real estate boards. A real estate board and the black real estate board. In 1946, the president , the former told his members that they were, quote, under no obligation to sell the in predominantly white areas, unquote. However, the black board largely partneto seek ways to make separate but equal more than just rhetoric. Im a skip to the chase real fast. But greto league and the groups housing director, robert worked with white authorities to access expansion areas where black residents catain housing. And they looked around metro atlanta. They found an area named after some confederates called collyer heights. Yall a real atlanta is here because you know where im going with this. The black newcomers they decided that they it was a sparsely area and they s everybody no pun int. We dont want spook anybody. So lets be quiet. But was purchased a whole bunch of acres to see where this goes. Atlanta uniquely had Citizens Trust bank, a black owned bank. They had a black construction. They had a black development company, have like real estate agents. They black investors that all black in the early 1950s, something other cities did not have as a consequence they built color heights these gentrifiers and this is the fascinating thing here the black newcomers were generally than the whites who lived in Collier Heights class proved to be have effect in the mitigating the anger that black families experienced constructing quote, gleaming new middle class houses. The black newcomers proved to be when the earliest waves of gentrifiers the city despite widely perceived to the contrary africanamericans could in fact be judged. Pfizer proved to be that in this moment. The influx of high says families raise their real estate prices. Collier heights, the black georgia fires developers, homebuyers. Banks purchased thousands of acres of land to the west of a holdout white neighborhood in 1953, two years before montgomery, a local white newspaper assuming local white homeowners association, argued that, quote, it was a moral issue to resist open housing and that white neighbors continue the southwest Citizens Association appealed to whites not to sell their homes to black families. We ask, be a fair minded individual to refuse to make a fast dollar the expense of the majority in what has always been a whitein 1954, however, all 13e owned holdout homes were sold, relinquishing the area to the national developmefnt z company, making Collier Heights the largest upscale black suburb in United States of america. So so this story. Because the story, which is kind of fascinating i must say, im running out of time, ill give two quick things about about atlanta. All of us have heard the harlem renaissance, all of us have heard about all the fancy stuff going on in harlem in the 1920s out that if you take 125th street in harlem, according historian jake dorman, none of those businesses were black owned. This ist the university of california, los angeles, does undergrad at stanford, whos written all these books and does a book on atlanta. He does a chapter on the harlem renaissance. He talks about regular in harlem. He said, although you have these exceptional cases of people who did well, it was amazing to see theegree which black businesses did not prosper in harlem, in atlanta, in this period in the 1920s and 1930s, point in all the cities, United States of america, only one city had a higher percentage of black folks. It was birmingham, alabama, then atlanta, georgia. Atlanta, georgia already had a disproportionately high number of black people of all the cities in the United States, there was one black daily newspaper was a chicago defender, was the amsterdam news. It wasnt the washington bee, it was the atlanta world. Atlanta had created a military had created a military offshoot. They created a media by the 40 chain newspapers of the 1940s. Atlanta had distinguished itself as exceptional space of black achievement early on. So this book explores that as well. An this harlem renaissance historians have moved away from to talk about the National Impact of this blossoming of energy of intellectual work and artistic work at this time. So this also comes up here finally at the very moment this all happens, which is surprising to a lot of people. We have this term, the the city to visit hate in the 1920s as a land was going through its own renaissance. That outpaced in many ways pound for pound was going on in new york city atlanta the capital for the ku klux klan. It was literally called the Imperial City for the ku klux klan. The mayor of atlanta. Walter simms was a klansman. Theres a guy, Herbert Jenkins became the chief of police, Herbert Jacobs explicitly says when he became when became a police officer, he says, i also became a klansman. And i count this for the majority of. My my patrolmen. Right. The majority of an all white police force. So surprisiny this very moment, the 1920s begins. There was no high school in the city of atlanta right. Atlanta, in many ways, theres a city of two of contrast. Right. We have all these things i just mentioned. But also you have city where most of police officers, according to themselves, were klansman right. All white police force. The mayor was a klansman, was no black high school. The black people could attend public high school. Yet we have the highest concentration black educational institutes of Higher Education in the United States of america. So this city has as contrasts,s been a city of tension. Dr. King comes up here. A lot of people dont know this and may perhaps well talk about this with mayor franklin, dr. King, a singer, and he was a little. He was a singer. And well talk about how he sang songs. And in 1939, as a year old and and his role in atlanta and how ilana shaped him is a conspicuous part will leave it e because i know that ill have a conversation with mayor franklin and shell get a chance to ask me some questions. I ho y the audience as well thank you very much for your time. I apologize for speaking so quickly and and. Thank you, my great. I will. Okay. Thank you. I him to take a break. Relax. Thanks, everybody, for coming. I know a lot of youve read the book and one of the things that i told jeffrey is that we could have an hour long discussion and presentation on any chapter of this book, it is that rich in stories and history and, we look forward to hearing from again. But that is thats terrific. So youre i am. All right. So, of course, were to start with dr. King, because you just opened the door. Youve got more about dr. Kings history and how it plays in the story that you tell. So all of us here were with dr. King and many people who study him around the planet know that dr. Kings ideas around social human and the possibilities of humanity have influences. And if you look at books that are on dr. King, you look at people discussing, him, theyll talk about benjamin mays, theyll talk about howard thurman, the valedictorian of atlanta of Morehouse College in 1923. They talk henry david thoreau, mahatma gandhi. They talk about people and how christian ideas have shaped him. We talk about all these folks who kind of poured intellectual work. Atlanta i talked to dr. King also, though what i do here and i t that king would not have been king had it not for atlanta. And its like imagining for hip hop fans out here. Could have had a jay z had jayz been born and bred in idaho. Right. I like his identity as an emcee, a person as a human being. All those things are inextricably connected to his experience growing up in brooklyn, not just in brooklyn, but under the Socio Economic conditions of being a black man in brooklyn at this time. Born december fourth, 1969, right in that time period, crack cocaine drugs, hip hop, all these are things like shaped jayz in ways so we can imagine just like we can imagine jayz separated from brooklyn. Right so so how do we understand what atlanta did to shaped dr. King . So i talk about that as well. Its surprising is that dr. King loved atlanta in many ways. Certain segments of atlanta love dr. King. He sntis life here except for about 12 years. And so dr. King, you know, left montgomery came back here. But at at age ten, there was, there are o events. And by the beginning of atlanta and. 1972 major events brought about 100,000 people out into the streets. Right. The first event was when sherman marks his victorious soldiers down marietta street, when they defeated the confederates. The second event was a World Premiere of gone with the Junior League had a big event to celebrate with the win. It was an all white one organization at the time and ey invited they say, we want to have a big event to celebrate, going to the highlight atlanta in our heritage. And we love our history and we want to honor our history by dressing up like southern belles and, southern gentlemen. And they say, lets it they went out, got costumes, everything, and said we cant do a happy slaves. Right . And they said, yes so they went they reached out to local churches, they reached out to Ebenezer Baptist church. They saian your children come here, dress up as some slaves, and sing sing songs . So our celebration and it happened. And one of those kids was d dr. A kid. And he looked upon the audience and saw all these people, the grinning, chatting of folks who were dressed so hes saying thia kid, right . But shapes him and even how he imagines history but the possibilities he goes, you kn i live work and ive been ill end connecticut for 27 years now. Connecticut they have tobacco farms and in the 1940s and perhaps before after i dont know much about it but 1940s they actually tobacco in the summertime and president Benjamin Elijah mays worked with these tobacco farmers in connecticut in simsbury, connecticut to bring students up. Dr. King was one of those. He came up to summers and picked tobacco. Dr. King talked about being a siry going the city where i live now, hartford and, going to a Movie Theater and then going to a restaurants. And he talked about how he could just go to any restaurant, any. And he wrote to his parents, we actually have the letters where hes saying, im surprised to see what black can do here. You know, you can just go to a restaurant. You just go to said imagine a world where you could live unfettered and just navigate the city freely. And so this helped shape him. And he, of course, became a global cosmopolitan person. But atlanta in many ways was a t things he received here, the love and support, but also a place that calls an incredible angst and and i guess in determination to move the needle. And he saw the possibilities of humanity but in greater detail i talk about how atlanta really shaped him so this the Third Largest gathering of humans in atlanta was unfortunately when dr. King died. So you have the three big events you gone with the wind, you have shamans, soldiers. And when dr. King had his funeral here in atlanta in 1968, an thing and in all three cases, we have a city that is polarized over every single right. I mean, every case, a city that celebrates itself, while other segments of the city would not at all celebrate the moment thats being celebrated you know, one of the things that we didnt talk about before this was you seem surprised by all of this. Were you surprised by what you found . Yeah. You know, i didnt miss this too much here. But in the asylum period, i was surprised that l. A. Had constructed these incredibly hostile antiblack laws. Theres the Second Chapter is called no capes for. There are a lot of welldressed people here tonight. A lot of like, you know, atlanta is known to have a lot of forward expressions. I mean, from my hair or the banner, you got a lot of different examples of people. But in atlanta, it was for black people to dress their lot. You can not wear capes. So so you see like count■ draca and these dudes with capes and stuff like that. So you can not wear a cape. Black people can not wear a cape because it was seen as as sort sartorial expression that was beyond their their capacity and outside their lot. So you can have canes, you can be to fly you all these Different Things. I was kind of surprised that the degree to which policing of life went all the way down to even how you dressed and of course, after hearing so much about l. A. Being the city too busy to hate, i was surprised to hear that we have more terrorism here than birmingham. Well, the other thing, one of the things that■ i really relish in this book and in the arc history of atlanta is women are involved in every single aspect of the work that you and you talked about, laura combs. But would you like to speak about that a little bit more really important to me because. So much of American History is written without women or women are appendages or they are in the womb. But not central to the story. So yeah thank you for that. That means a lot. You very much. Mayor franklin. I laura combs is really important as the first black landowner Fulton County and it out that that parcel of land by the way that she sold to the combs sisters the white women who that land eventually became intersection of peachtree and auburn avenue. All right. Yeah. Which is crazy. And ymca eventually bought it from combs. The combs sisters did the right thing on so many levels, not just morally and ethically, morally, but they also did it in just financial way. So you have women these white women. Right. Who are exercising their own degree of of autonomy, influence. But what they what they did geo, a lot of people became, super poor enslavers became lost all their wealth after the civil war. They in fact got greater wealth as a consequence of this land trade. So that land stayed in the family for future before they sold it. So it became energy and intergenerational wealth in a way that would have been otherwise. Laura combs, of course, had been this shrewdusinesswoman in so many ways. Another case find like really fascinating is in all shes the first lady of morehouse, the first black president , morehouse, john hope burns, hope his wife, shes active along with a lot of other africanamerican women in the city in kindergartens, in other educational opportunities. At one point, there were no parks available for black children in the city, and they actually worked with Morehouse College to parcel land, black children, parks. But these women had been the forefront. These are privileged elite women who were inextricably tied to the work of the wider community. And that became really important. And other issue, which is surprising for a lot of people here, is that and im speaking to an atlanta crowd and many of you probably already know about this, but ive given talks before and ill preempt this one if i can. People have asked me why atlanta have a tulsa, right . Or rosewood but as many of you know, here it did and it was 1906. And when 1906, the atlanta race, a massacre of 1906 occurred. The the first lady of morehouse, eugene burns. Hope is on record. Shes all workers saying that we were out trying to get as many guns as we could. In fact, we started they the the gun owners in atlanta leading up to the race massacre in september of 1906. Gun stores stopped selling guns to africanamericans. There was a sense that something was about to happen. Booker t washington visited the city a month before it happened, and he in the paper, he was trying to tell people like, hey, no, arent that were ptty good people. Please, all good. And there was no there was no rebellion. Theres no violence. But he had a sense that something was there and people were purchasing guns7x and stopd selling guns to africanamericans in louisiana. Burns hope she actually went out and and others got guns from people from out of town and they in dirty clothes when the when the civil unrest happened and Civil Society collapsed, they smuggled them it professors at clark. They were the youth center, wasnt together at the time. Clark university was called in gan. Were patrolling campuses armed. There are professors probably tweed suits. Dubois came from alabama and his suspects in the top hat in the probably, he said in sports according to him with his winchester double they were shotgun and with shells on the side John Wesley Dobbs of the grandfather to Maynard Jackson said the same thing. He just got married and he said he sat there with his and cartridges on, the side hoping that he wouldnt have to use them. Margaret mitchell she comes up in daddy, shes white, but she saw her daddy, grabbed an ax because he didnt have a gun and this race massacre occurred. But its fascinating to see how louisiana hope was so instrument in securing weapons for the black community at this time, which is like not youd expect from an elite patrician woman like virginia burns. And youve also mentioned grace townsend hamilton as well. Yeah, in the course of this. And shes critical. You cannot imagine the its interesting i this conversation earlier about air force of paternalism but the National Urban league looked at at grace and hamilton and said that you are pushing hard enough for integration all arent welcome yall atlanta are doing this and the national jcp called the local chapter anti cp because they were not pushing hard enough and there saw h. A. Scratching like well you know we were but you know how it is its wild out here like how you guys are doing it like other cities now are you we will use all hold type and they werent pushing hard because there was a sense here of Institution Building and control of institutions and all came to a head and the second atlanta compromise. So many of us are familiar with the atlanta compromise of 1895 when Booker T Washington telling in piedmont park, the atlanta exposition that mostly white ence we could be separate as a fingers all things social yet united a fist in all things of mutual economic benefit. Right so hes like we can be segregated. Its all good but you know we could put our know because now where we are and toe the line so by 1973 the socalled second atlanta compromise was when the city chapter decided when busing could just be for a black mayor, by the way. Right. So when bussing became an issue and they in atlanta had, like i said, was the last the second to last city to engage bussing, federal judges looked at atlanta you guys had a bus and he had a number of 30,000 students and they eventually settled on a 10th of that black leadership lonnie king of the local naacp. They say, right, you know, we do. We want push integration in the schools. But we will push integration of the administration. Right. We want to be able to control public schl those schools thate black children. Right. Their idea was that we will control the institutions and they said we want desegregation of administration. That was a position which had gone back for experience of the Africanamerican Community since the 19th century, really had been about institutional control. And that came up in. That case, by the way, the national anybody acp, they they what . They suspended the entire chapter, by the way, over that issue. Over that issue. Lonnie king and the entire chapter got suspended because decided to and of course, the atlanta schools has been dominated by foreigners ever since. The idea was there were there were many White Atlantans who were open to integration increasingly so in the 1970s there whites across the united were increasingly open to it. But there were also there was strident resistance to it. Many afroamerican families felt that putting children in those spaces to be taunted and abused was not a healthy thing to do. And they thought itd be better to have equal resources across the School District rather than, put your children and leave these, broke schools here and then see your children. Here, the schools will still be broken poor. As i said, if you control the system, you can control who gets resources and thats what they decide to do. So now, how does mnard jackson all of this . So Maynard Jackson. In 1967 to go back to dr. King, dr. Kingas many of us know here the cofounder of, the southern christian leadership conference, and it was headquartered in atlanta. The sclc had his annual meeting. And dr. Address was here in atlanta months before his assassination. And in that address, the black power has shaped dr. King and black power movement, essentially was afro self determinism with a different right and in effect, dr. King and dr. King said this. You say he was committed to racial reconciliation, was always committed a racial reconciliation. He always talked about the humanity of, all people. He was fully committed to that. ÷mbut he said this, and i quote him directly, said, i believe integration. Im fully committed to it. But it seems to be thathite brothers and sisters dont want to live near us, move into the neighborhoods. We get. They either have white flight or we bombed. We get attacked. So this is what king said. He said, no, it sound mean, he said, but we need to get control of those cities. So he said this and. In 1967, be august. But he said, we need to get control those cities and use those resources for, the people within those cities. Right. And tax people who live outside and there were hundreds, if not thousands of people were listening to those words. Maybe, i dont know, maybe ■b■c if not Maynard Jackson himself had heard those words. Maybe they didnt need to be there to hear those words. But that sentiment certainly gained traction in the United States. And so when that across the United States, when the black power movement, mayor jacksons elected in 1973, takes in 74, its in the middle of black power movement, the celebration of building institutions before and about black people was as high point efforts of determinism have been here for a very long time. A year earlier we had second atlanta compromise this idea of black control of institutions was very important. And lastly, when many people might know this, that when Maynard Jackson looked the coff, looked at what the city had it had as contracts, and found out that they had the same percentage of contracts with black firms they had during slavery. Right. It was nine. It was over literally over 90 white firms in 73. Right. And he was like, you see like what was in a city is half black. How is that we get less than 1 of city contracts. So we said going to be ambitious. Im going to go all the way up to 5 and people like 5 , they sued them right. And they were like, Maynard Jackson, you cant have 5 . You know, black businesses. He said, wash me. Would you believe that when he left office was nearly 40 . Yeah. Yeah. Well, lot of a lot of us here were during that and period and much of the history of black Economic Development is really discussed around the period of Maynard Jackson. But what youve given to us is an opportunity to see how its a long arc, really that leads to the 1970s. And so i that and im sure a lot of other folks to do as well. One of the other issues that i think we might explore a little bit before we go, the audience is whats next because it seems to me that this book opens the possibility of other stories. Thats one. And the second thing is you and i talked about hertford, so why did it happen in atlanta and not in a city like hartford or other words . Why do we . Why do we see all these trends . As in atlanta, over a long period of time mean you. I mean, peachtree, auburn, thats pretty long time ago, all the way up to, Maynard Jackson and and so why didnt we see that in philadelphia i mean im originally from philadelphia is boston i mean there are lots of other was an opportunity for blacks, africanamericans to kind of build the same kind of instioso do you have any idea tt its a very tough and vexing question and many people have asked the question i think that the centerpiece many anim not unique in saying this that what made atlanta exceptional was a concentration of institutions of Higher Learning here. And we have the conce learning for black people anywhere in the United States. And theres no surprise, if you look at a series of metrics, its no surprise washingt is, as closest tracks. Atlanta in terms of these demographic characteristics. And Howard University has the same sort of impact on that community. And theres an interesting story in 1920s, africanamericans created the very first black Amusement Park in the states of america. In atlanta, it was called joyland park, and it turns out that two weeks later, washington d. C. Created its own black park, which actually outlasted joyland park. But d. C. Was able to do many of the sameUnited States, right, the metros with the highest percentage of africanamericans were college are number one. Washington, number two, atlanta. And so so having Howard University with, its large universities, i think im not sure if is larger thanhe entire u. S. Combined, but it is so large. That weve got a howard bias. Weve got bison over here. We cant we cant believe the island of i dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, the business school, medical school, all of that. Yeah. Think you know it. I you know. Yeah. You spend quite a bit so soha that is i think a very, very important factors why atlanta and d. C. Become these places. The other thing is theres a i share the there are two fascinating stories. I shared it with friends. Theres a white comedian came to atlanta and he was like, he he had a show in atlanta. This was recently made last few weeks. And it came on my feet and he was like, yeah, i came atlanta and that makes commentary race. Sometimes. I keep in mind as a white guy, hes just a very sort of like, like hes going to lowes to buy some nails or something right. Tf like informal dress but came to atlanta for showed he wants to go to a really nice steakhouse so hes in buckhead and hes like, i need to go to a really steakhouse. So he found a steak house. Hes like, oh, man, got to go to the steakhouse. Im gonna have a nice time. Went up to the steak house. He walked inside and looked around. He said it was like an opulent steak house, black, everything, black maitre d, blackes down, black waiters. And he was like okay, cool. So he got there. The maitre d came up to him, said, hey, doordash. And hes like, doordash. I like doordash. Im no offense, the doordash people, but i think im nora. Hes a oh, no. And said, now i know like weve been talking about on, you know, i felt some of away right but he said he sat he said that the people they he sold them as a norm actually to eat a steak. And so he had a great time. And he said, i worked this my show. And theres another story came might jon hamm, whos an actor whos famous actor, white guy, he was on mad men. He was a titular character on mad men. Jon hamm in atlanta. And thanks to mayor many years ago as head the bureau of Cultural Affairs right. Theres theres a tv film industry, Georgia Center in atlanta. And jon was here filming and he said that being in new york, in l. A. , two extraordinarily diverse cities. So i could go to a fancy restaurant any given time. And those restaurants do not look like those cities. They dont look like the people inhabit new york or los angeles, he said. I cannot go to. He when i go to atlanta and i go to a restaurant, i see black people everywhere. And this is how should be. And he said he felt so he said he felt in big rating he felt he felt that it was an experience that more people need to they said that he didnt understand there was a sort of absence i could go in. I could give other examples. But theres something unique about this idea you told me about where Maynard Jackson has personal migration. He chose not to have it just in the black community. He wanted people to know that this is their city, that youre this. Youre everywhere, right . That everywhere is open to you. Right . So i think theres a theres something about the energy in and people seeing the city as their city and not constricted to parts of it, not just South Central harlem or the south side, but atlanta. But i cant explain how is not replicated other the fact that we have these institutions of Higher Learning and a long tradition of those of the talented alumni staying in the community you said philly, ill do this and 45 seconds tiger flowers. Ill talk about the fighter. Yes. Theres one of the first we all know of joe louis. Many know about jack johnson, these heavyweight fighters, or they were heavyweight champion, but there was a middleweight champ believe was a middleweight champion fighter named tiger flowers, who was actually from philadelphia in the 1920s. He became champion of the world. Right. And this guy was wealthy and he could go anywhere in the United States of america, but he to build a house, atlanta and build a mansion in atlanta and he used a black Construction Company to his black mansion in the black community in atlanta in thk■e 1920s. He didnt go to harlem. Then you go to chicago, he didnt even go back to philly. And the thing is that surprisingly was also the capital of klan, which is a bizarre thing, right . Like, how do you reconcile these things happening at same time in the 1920s . But this is the atlanta we know and love, a complicated city. So weve got time for a few questions. Were going to be bringing a mic around. And since were if you could waitntil t mic gets there, that would be great. But i know that i know this crowds got a lot questions, so raise your and theyre going to bring mic. Thank you. Justin. Im all right. Thank you so much. Im sort of fascinated by the branding of atlanta over time. So when they were talking about this the other day from the city to visit hey the atlanta way black mecca Atlanta Influences Everything these are Different Things that sort of have their own unique piece. But to some extent, they kind of all communicate something about the idea of safety and wellness of black in atlanta. So the question is, how true■aws do these does this branding maybe this aspirational branding end up creating more wellness for black folks over or does it end up . I mean, i think, you know, to what extent does it also end up sort of exposing black folks in atlanta to i know, outside influences and. Vulnerabilities . I was looking for a microphone. So i think that atlanta i say this in the book and this is a clear really kind of interesting issue that atlanta has created these slogans and i like that you use the word aspirational theyve been more aspirational, their reality. So if you look atlanta, look at atlanta in the first century, and i at atlanta the last five years, multiple studies of five years have showed that atlanta has, of all the cities in the nineties, america the the least social mobility which is fascinating because all the stuff weck■ralk about right has the the so a child born in poverty in a census tract that is poor census tract has a 4 chance of escapingty sitting to the middle class in her lifetime which is right. The the the statscomplicated ift metropolitan areas so theres no way to get around that horrible stat for the city of atlanta it turns out that of metro areas of all the major metro areas United States atlanta has the smallest core population piece of the metrolalf a Million People live in the city, while 6 Million People live outside new york. Doesnt look like that. Chicago doesnt look that like that, and los angeles doesn■t that. So you have a core thats very small. When we talk about the 2 million black people who have migrated to atlanta over the last generation, two generations, most those people actually have gone to the suburbs. So all of us know black folks, who claim to live in atlanta, believe out of the thorniest mt. Marietta, all these are the places rso so people who live ia is increasingly an abstraction. So now people have done studies to look at what the metro looks like, that 6 million folks, it turns out that that that that ability that social mobility factor. That the core city and the so both not just the metro alone it looks at the core city and the metro it drops fr worst mobility to 227th. It plummet right. So it outperforms 226 cities, which is really a metro area, which is remarkable. So so there is theres a positive element to it as, much as the part of it to you cannot go out and ive heard people say im all about numbers. I tried, you know, i said this earlier. I heard people say cant live in land that was too expensive. You cant buy a house. No, man, ive gone to the auction. Go to the southwest atlanta, ga. About by, you know, white over there. You can see houses are barely standing up right. You see, you know, broke down houses. You still see impoverished areas. Its not like atlanta is all these brand new condos. There are still swaths of atlanta that are in hard, abject right. So lana has not escaped that. So just like the city too busy to hate the idea of the black mecca, the sort of what county and city. This is clearly an aspirational space in many respects. But then we have a in there that data. This is just atlanta is exceptional and we have a whole of several for good and bad reasons. Thank you. Where is the microphone . I dont care. Dr. Ackbar. Mayor franklin. Good evening. I about atlanta in the forties and fifties, especially with the the two real estate boards. There was a called the colombians that was in atlanta. And my question to you, dr. Barr, is did that really stifle the growth did it have any impact on the city in terms of people moving in because of the the the the fresh, the clean scrubbed terrorist that were here . I appreciate your thoughts about that. Thank you. Really informed here. I did not know much about the colombians before doing research for book. This is a fascist organization emerged after World War Two in atlanta. And so they thought the klan was not hardcore enough. Theyre like these dudes. These we plan, so lets show them. I was really done. And they they literally we want to establish White Nationalist state and what the nazis did to they were very clear about it they say we waernt to it once we get to power, if we want bury all the nwords in the sand, we can bury all the nwords in the sand. Thats what they so they their issue is that they were so hardcore they decided to blow up establishments. They want to attack the white police. They beat up and attack bl hous. So but they also identified the land of constitutional and a journal and said we can blow these places up, then blow up these poce officers, that the city was like. Now we dont have any of that. So they came in, broke their backs and put them out jail and took away their charter. So they got repressed pretty quickly. Once they start to attack white establishment in the city. And they were like the klan had come out of favor in the 1940s as well. The united is coming in after the World War Two. And you know, the hard core virulent expressions, racial oppression had sort of less than a bit. And so just was not the right time. Historical moment the colombians to really step on the scene so i dont think it affected in fact in that period you have an influx of white and black blacks are still coming to the city and it becomes such issue as many of us know here. I know mayor franklin as your predecessor, hartsfield, is like, we need to annex more White Communities because black folks are so are you all down to come into our teams we need to dilute the black power here because before know it, theyll have a black mayor, god forbid. And so so so this is happening in 1942. So many black people come into the city dont about my fellow morehouse found in terms of the the certain infrastructure of blacs. Sleeping porters kappa phi phi prince hall masonry and the other organizing asians here in atlanta that know the lineage. You know, im part of that Capital Formation group of going from the burial societies to the Insurance Companies to the numbers the commercial bankers, to those of us in Asset Management business, which made it, you know, i my relationship with them was through the National Associations professionals which was near and dear to his heart and the impact he made on kind of Capital Formation and Business Development in the black Community Going to wall street and of reconfiguring ■;things there. Hmm, great question. The so networking as many people as room netwoing is critical to how just corporate business but even this event tonight is as i start off as a consequence of networking like my ship to elise and her relationship to her cousin and then, you know, broadly strong relationships with mayor and other are these are the people they know pulled this alltogeth. So relationships have been critical to much what we see in l. A. History in the 1920s. Again, the irony i learned a whole lot about the atlanta 1920s, thats we get to the Founding National black letter organizations in atlanta. They started establishing their chapters of the 1920s, which is crazy because you have the klan here. I this other talk, which is hilarious. I talk about klan have their own free neck in the 1920s and like because they had it like these parties. And i was like, yeah, they said we, they had these classrooms where these convocations i think they call them. So atlanta every year because it was the capital the klan. So the hotels were filled with klansmen, klansmen walking down the street, having a free right. And they were like, this is a fear. They were going a field day. And the city was so abuzz with the klan in the 1920s, cocacola ads out in the klans newspaper. They were like, when you go to your klan rallies, have a coke, you know, saying, dont forget you know . And so so the klan was huge in atlanta, 1920s surprisingly, Alpha Phi Omega sci fi these and sororities founded there im sorry, two people in a room we know these numbers know years but in the 1920s sigma phi phi, the boulay the capital start of the 1920s. And so so in this decade surprisingly, these organization runs take root in the city. They have conferences here in the 1920s, which is like surprising like why would you go to a place that is controlled, the oldest terrorist organization in the country, like you can imagine, but they did this, which is fascinating know so they these became really important incubators for activism. Capital when it was formede, here, dubois who was once a professor, was already he established caballe in new york city for the signify five fraternities often called the ballet. They when they when they were here, most of these people were tied to the naacp, right . They were professionals with advanced degrees, but they were also tied to activism and an activism that was more it was afro. So it wasnt pushing hard for integration because they valued the power of institutions and those networks were really critical so many ways. Yeah, the questions yeah. Edwin moses im over here in the morehouse quarter, but all right, i you. I heard you talk about joseph. I come from dayton, ohio, and a lot of people dont know that in dayton, ohio, we an area called Little Africa or town. And it was populated by former slaves who came to work on the canal it came from new york, buffalo, erie, pennsylvania, albany. They went all the way out to missouri chicago. So there was a whole area populated like that. And my brother did a lot of research on that. But when you talk about gentrification specifically in the early sixties, lateifties and im working on a book right now and i have a film coming out too and i mention this specifically in my book because it might not make the film about it that. Now that happened in west ohio where where africanamericans were moving and the whites were moving out. And i talk about a time because i grew up in this time my mom and dad were educators. I live on a hill in west dayton area called montclair judges, doctors, lawyers high level educators. There was a guy that had like 50 patents th d metals for jet planes that theyre still using, but our gentrification was what, remember, was going through west state. And when the whites moving out and the black started moving in, the lawns were cut. We flowers on the steps, people walking dogs had cut, everyone had a mother and, a father, and all the kids were going to school and serious about educations. When i talk about that today, to some of the young morehouse brothers and spelman sisters and younger people that that grew up with the single mother that dont have a father, that whole concept is really like something thats really been lost that period between like the midsixties, vietnam, civi it loud, im black and im proud. And tommie smith and knowing where i was when it when both kennedy got shot, malcolm x got shot. Funeral where i was. But that whole between that early sixties up until the crack age is is like a segment of the United States of our black history that no one is talking about today. We skip from 6870 to dr. King, and then you start again with the hope you get the disco era and then you start with the crack and the decimal nation of africanamerican studies. So i just want to say thank you for bringing that. Now. Have a conversation you about my experiences because its happening not in atlanta, but in a lot of other cities. And today that history being wiped out. Youre on to ban this. Sure. Your book is. Well see if things go the wrong way. Everybody who came to a meeting this tonight will be, you know, on someones boundless. But thank you very much. Thank you very muchre here in. Anyone over here . Yes. I have. Two parents, one. Where is the steakhouse . In buckhead. Oh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. And whether you being from pennsylvia . Im from pennsylvania. And we had to take pennsylvania history, so i dont know if they do that in georgia, but if they do, is this part of the history. No. And how do we make it pointed in the. Well, we we will organize. Its on the list of things we need to. Do i wish i knew that steak house. I im a pessimist here, but im sure i got some good though yeah. So yeah i. All right, let me know. Let me know. Thank you for that. Oh, good evening. My name is bud smith. Mayor and dr. Id like to ask you both a question. How long do you feel its going to take before see another black female mayor in atlanta in wide. I mean, i. I mean, were you asking me . I would just i would just say i considered my job every single day to be sure door was still open when i left. That was job. We just go, yeah, im nothg. Fre beginning of the talk and, the history of all the mayors before, im just staying in that you receive more votes cast in over 90 of the votes. And ed a record. I mean, so you had extraordinary achievement, but you its one of my dear nd maybe bill thomas, who many of you know, a former state representative, and also city council member. She said, i made the job look too hard. But i mean, youre also a finalist. The world mayors list. I mean, all these Different Things are going on now, not about it was not about me coming out now. Time out, run for governor. Any questions over here . I think its a hand. Right. This gentleman microphone. Wheres the. I dont see the microphone. So the light is in our face. Oh, okay yes. Thank you. Ti ward. Id like to thank mayor franklin, your doctor, on the perspectives of, our groh and what have you. Four of the five people that were quite influential in getting atlanta where it is now lived, my Community Bound city, including one of my mentors, grace hamilton. How do we weavemayor jacksons d its book is ballot, and the book would be the trajectory of your piece and. This is 2024, john wisdom said that the next street, a next to street north of that was far east avenue after Nathan Deforest 2024, the Imperial Hotel is at that corner. But the street name now is ralph mcgill. I remember ralph mcgill coming to, morris brown and others who made a difference, incidentally, that kings mom went to march brown of the many cities you have visited, can you think one or two other cities atlanta can a page out of their playbook to be that stellar city that it is and franklin helped make it that thats for you . Yeah. Yeah i mean you know when i think about cities where atlanta can learn yeah where atlanta learn you know i made reference earlier to so washington d. C. I you know one of the things that i say is somewhat about atlanta, again, is the lack of social mobility and. I think that while the metropolitan area may be quite successful you can8t ignore te half Million People, of course, in the core and clearly looking at policies that could disrupt things, you know, sort of solidified you, know, infringed racial case case with intergenerational poverty, we need to disrupt that and to, quote a colleague of mine and friend here damon, he said that education is the disruptor to intergenerational poverty, but the systematic in which we have fought, we make that available to people like how we go about doing that is something that clearly needs to be done. And i dont know which city one might be the best example of, but i think there are some there are a lot of spaces where we could do better, obviously. Right. And i think that clearly idenfying that problem is one of the i know that Environmental Issues have a big you. Well, another i mean, there are many more people who are registered to vote than who vote. So the policy is follow the outcome of votes. And there have been periods in, their elections where literally hundreds of thousands of African Americans in georgia have not voted who are registered and and on the voting rolls. So. Mobilizing people to be mobilizing people to be engaged in the political process is part of it. I think. But i dont want to dominate this ill be here for a while yes next. All right. Good evening, people. And make a real quick chapter five. Thank you very much for your work. Chapter. You talked about how when the characters, the slaves being freed, the lady said to them, hey, young actress keisha occasionally struck him. Im born and raised in southwest atlanta. Why is it thattlta has been such a magnet for Higher Learning and you see any threats to that continue to flourish . You know, theres a tre i in ovf the book named William Edward evans and. I introduce him and im glad brought that up about education and of 1864 as sherman was cutting through georgia on his way to savannah, he came through ■madison and this little nine year old kid who had just come back from going to a slave sort like training cam■ he ran up to the fence at this plantation to marvel at the thousands of soldiers in blue marching through madon. And as hes looking at all soldiers, thousands of soldiers marching blue, carrying hams and carrying clothes and carrying munitions the crowd. He saw not just white guys in blue, but he saw black children, black men and black women. And one black woman looked over at this fence with all these little enslaved children. And she declared that they were said the first day she told them and he wrote this he said this in wpa in 1930, said, learn your abcs. And she said, run and learn your abcs, which itself have been subversive. Right . Like it was against the law to teach anybody who was black, free or enslaved to read or write. So it turns that that young man went to augusta and augusta had no there were no colleges or anything there. He found himself in atlanta and he settled here and found himself caught in the orbit of the institutions of Higher Learning. This is very, very important to how we think. In many ways, his life is a microcosm, why so many of us in this room. But people we animate the city ofhe he was attracted to the schools, but not a student. He end up becoming a contractor. He was a plasterer and ev of, a stone hall. Stone for people who were from morris brown. You know, that was the original buil dubois had his offices and where he wrote souls of black folk and w. E. B. Dubois was there in the building was paia the first two names with him, and he joined fresh a baptist church. He joined First Baptist church when morehouse moved up to atlanta as well. And they had to find a home and Spelman College was founded his same church. Right. So he saw Spelman College. Morehouse and then they moved a little bit away. But he was active in their church his whole life. He became active and he built his Construction Company he and up working for alexander sons gh of their work from the black schools to go back to the schools, they werent even enrolled in schools. Right. They were getting work building dormitories, including he built robert hall and Morehouse College, which actually became the dorm where king lived one year. Right. And he then worked with the ymca downtown, which is a veritable city hall. And then eventually when he was interviewed in 1930s, he talked how his home that he was a little larger than a home that senator joshua hill owned and enslaved him in madison, georgia. And so this little boy, nine years old, had the arc of his life. And when he died in 1944, the atlanta constitution, l. A. Constitution at the time they did an obituary for. Evans and it turns out that reverend carter, the head of baptist church, did the did the services. Carter died a few months later. They were the same age, 88 years old. This that he had known for over half a century. They die within months of each other. And the persons to replace carter was Maynard Jackson senior. You know, so that guy, his his life really was connected to all these churches. But carter evans, so many people on course, including Maynard Jackson, senior and junior, they were drawn to these these colleges, the threats to the colleges, i dont know. I really, look at these schools. They seem to be in many ways without challenges. Obviously. But we all know the great news, spelman, 100 million coming to Spelman College. A lot of people know this. This is i did this. And research has found itself spelman. If you look at per capita student endowment, spelman before. 100 million is not just one of the wealthiest schools. The United States is wealthier than over 90 of the schools and colleges in the United States were wealthier than Georgetown University of Southern California and tulane which i found wildly surprising, had no idea because theyre only 2000. A little over 2000 students at spelman their per capita endowment is again higher than. Well over 90 of schools and colleges, the United States of america. And that was a school that started off in auspiciously in our specialist Little Church Friendship Church back in the day with evans. So id like to think that these schools are strong, know spelman is outlier in some respects, but but yeah, id like to think this is wrong. So weve got time for one or two more questions. Whos next . Question thank you so much. I thank you for the opportunity speak. My question is actually senator, what that gentleman was saying earlier, when it comes to the family unit changing and mentioned about that dichotomy of it, and that is all over and just thinking about the state of black georgia and tale of two tale of two states, what guidance would you offer for a shift to be able to help the kids because even though there is that well, you still low literacy rates you sti that poverty you still have all of the unemployment so theres that dichotomy. So what guidance would you suggest . Thank you. Im quoting someone who works for rice. Im trying to is two for innovation and event. Thank you. Thank you and so one of these you said he talks about challenges in atlanta and how atlanta we think about this the social mobility we think poverty. You think about lack of ■ueducation you say that all the things are true. He said that and i love what he said he said that while atlanta has all this and weve gotten so many things wrong, were best positioned of the deep reservoir of talent to also get it right. Right. And when you think about this, theres probably other city, any metro area with this degree of talent right to get it right and pooling and, harnessing that resource, those resources, like all the orgazations that we have in the metro area, you mentioned the the social organization all these are a lot of professionals who have a lot of experience in different industries. Again, this is beyond my pay re like how you assessments systematically address some of these things but i do know that like the license to other that that are dedicated to these these issues and clearly the city the government the county government i cant speak for the state and the extent to which they might be engaged in these things, but these are real issues. So there are examples in atlanta of neighborhood kind of focused, developed ment and and multi disciplinary approaches. Some of my former colleagues from Purpose Built Community here is like other folks in on the west side. So there are some examples where the approach to■■■ these is not citywide but is neighborhood focused. So well be glad to tell you about that later. Thank you, maam. All right. Question here. Thank you. Two things. One, being a photographer and, traveling around a lot, of atlaa with Maynard Jackson making equity and money for the arts, maynard did that. And jill, of the whole bunch of us came here during the midseventies. All right. And two people alwayswhich is airport and. When maynard maintained that hole in the ground, thats where 40 came from. Yeah, no, thats true. I mean, maynard focus was the airport, but he set the standard. All the rest that we would do after words. So this has been great. Has everybody learned something new . I know i have. We are so. I know rodney. Is going to close this out, but i want to be sure to remind everyone that the books are for sale. We look forward to reading them because we certainly want to have jeffrey back and talk about some of the other things that hes learned and then and and its cspan. Thank you to cspan. Th has been recorded and the history center. A big thank you for making this possible. I know im doing your job. But you know, when youre in politics, you have a microphone. Were going to tell you, but we cant thank you enough. Thank you. Not just for coming. Thank you, but for all the research and all the work and the dedication to city that we love. Thank. Thank you so much. Thank you all so thank you for coming out. Thank you. Thank thank you