Transcripts For CSPAN3 Politics And Public Policy Today 20240622

The region and that is worrisome obviously. In your opinion, do you believe that if we acted in a unilateral manner to impose new sanctions or reimpose existing sanctions, not based on breaking the nuclear dual but based on other activities that we could impose sanctions in the area. Congressman, we believe that the acts on terrorism and destabilization are an area of concern. We have been putting sanctions in place. We reserve the right to put parts delisted on the list again if they are violating terrorism or destabilization provisions. I think that we have powerful tools and i think the world knows we mean to use them and i believe our credibility in doing it has to be for real. We have to be listing people for reasons of terrorism and regional destabilize is. And you feel we have the tools. We definitely have powerful tools. I will yield back the remainder of my time. Thank you. We go to geoff duncan of South Carolina. Thank you. Secretary kerry there are still three or four americans in prison in iran. I put their pictures here to remind you of them today. I understand not using them as pawns in negotiation, but what should have been what should have happened is they should have been released as a precondition before ever sitting down with iran for anything. And with that i yield to mr. Desantis from florida. I thank the gentleman from South Carolina. Secretary kerry for the Side Agreements between the iaea and iran can you agree one is about the Parchin Military site and the other is about the possible Nuclear Dimensions of the Nuclear Program. I believe there is one basic agreement which contains the approach to the pmd. So can you confirm that the congress will not im advised i think the two appendices, apparently. And is it your testimony that congress will not get to review those agreements before voting on no congress will be briefed on the contents of the agreements per what we know. We will not be given the actual agreements i dont believe you get the actual agreement. The problem with that is that the Iran Nuclear Agreement act that Congress Passes and president obama signs required the executive branch to provide congress with all documents and defined that to include any Side Agreements and so the executive branch has a Binding Legal agreement under the agreement to provide all documents including the side deals. We dont have a side deal so we are in compliance. The iaea is an in dependent agency and provides in a nuclear act with all due respect applies iran has with any other parties, any agreements implemented or prior to the agreement or implemented in the future so if there is an agreement between iran and the iaea under the Iran Nuclear Agreement act that needs to be provided to congress and if you are not in compliance with that act how is the clock even starting to rub for the run for the 60 day review period. Congressman im not sure legally that the congress of the United States has the power powerful as it is to be able to dictate to the iaea a change in its procedure. That is not what were doing. We passed the bill and the president signed it and we laid out the conditions we dont have the agreement. Youre not going to request the agreement and bring it so we can review it. Congressman we dont possess the agreement. Those are protocols worked out to satisfy that the iaea agreement on resolving the which are important because we need to know the pmd and know about parch in to evaluate the efficacy of the agreement you negotiated. The iaea will provide the report on september the 15th which summarizes which is after the window that congress has to review the agreement so were not privy to that information and asked to cast a vote on this. Let me ask you this secretary kerry, you alluded to previous questions if iran cheats we can snapback the sanctions but the problem i see is in the agreement itself it says iran states if sanctions are reinstated iran will treat that as grounds to cease performing its commitments under the jcpoa in whole or in part. So if iran is doing incremental cheating and there is sanctions reimposed if you do that iran will walk away from its commitments and so for me it is structured in a way to allow iran to get away with small violations because the cost of going to actually impose the sanctions would be to blow up the deal that you guys have spent so much time negotiating. Congressman with all respect, that is a misread of the paragraph and a misread of what we have here. The paragraph was requested by iran because they are afraid because congress kept rattling the saber about more sanctions and so they said, well what guarantee do we have if we agree to this that Congress Wont pass por sanctions on the same thing or not more, but take the sanctions we had and bring them back after we made an agreement and that merely says that we are not going to reimpose the same sanctions and put them back and it does not as secretary lew said it will not bring other sanctions for other things and the language said in whole or in part so we are allowed for any minor infraction we are not facing this draconian choice of bringing the whole thing and risking the whole deal we would bring a small amount. Remember the reason iran is coming to the table to make the agreement is they want the relief from the sanctions and if indeed they were in flagrant violation, all of our friends who helped negotiate this will stand with us all in agreement that we have to put the sanctions back. We must go to grace ming of new york. That generates the behavior from iran. Grace. Thank you to all of you for being here for your time and dedicate to this important issue and for spending so much time with us here in congress on the hill to discuss so many of our concerns. I want to ask during the negotiations did this law of the land the Iran Nuclear Agreement review act signed by president obama and known to all parties of the negotiation, was it known to all of the parties . Well obviously the other parties became very aware that congress was requiring a review period and they were very concerned about it. And so i want to bring up one example of during the Cold War Congress played a very Important Role in the development of nonproliferation agreements dealing with Nuclear Weapons specifically the testman treaty which i know was a treaty but we also have our law here. This treaty was initially blocked by the senate because of concerns over soviet compliance. The treaty was not submitted to the senate for approval for two years after signing and wasnt ratified until after the u. S. And soef yebt union reached agreement 14 years later on additional provisions to enhance americas ability to verify soviet compliance. So this all leads me to believe that congress should be and we are and we have the ability and authority to compel a better deal should it choose to disapprove of this one. What are the key differences between the jcpoa here and the cold war examples other than the fact that it was a treaty and there were multiple parties . Well, one of the principal differences is that we have not had any engagement or any dialogue with iran since 1979. And the lack of diplomatic relations which is different than what we had with the soviet union makes this a complicated situation. So you have to take and analyze what is achievable here in the context of the threat the Nuclear Program. And i believe given the nature of the political system in iran the challenges with respect to their own politics the notion that were going to be able to go back to the table, is just it is a fantasy. There is no latitude here. Because iran came to this table with enormous suspicions about even engaging with the United States. There was a huge debate in the country about whether or not they should. Whether or not we should be trusted and whether or not this was worth the risk. And many people in the country suggested we would not act in good faith. If indeed all of a sudden we stand up in vienna seven nations strong and the unationed nations support the agreement and we turn around and say we are not going to perform i think the Intelligence Community will confirm to you resoundingly we will not be back at the table certainly in the near future and i would think certainly not with this iranian government or leadership. One final question. Youve already obviously asserted that if congress does disapprove the International Sanctions regime will fall apart and iran goes back to two months breakout time. I understand russia and chinas top priority and interest might not be that of congress here in the u. S. But can you help me understand what the basis of the view of the two countries that would allow iran to fully violate the deal, why wont they hold iran to the Nuclear Commitments set forth in the agreement, and if they allow them to do that, then why do we also believe that they will be there with us in any sort of snapback scenario . Well, i think that iran that russia and china are very, very serious about the nonproliferation component as this, as serious as we are. Russia has agreed to export the spent fuel and process it in russia in order to help take this work. China has accepted major responsibility to be the lead entity with our cochairmanship on a committee that will offered to the iraq reactor in a way that is aprilable to us and they have taken on major responsibility. So they both have a huge interest in the nonproliferation interest of this but they both believe the other components of the resolution with respect to the arms and the missiles was thrown in as a addon in punishment not because it referred to the nuclear part of the resolution or agreement. The resolution of the u. N. Was a Nuclear Agreement and in that regard i think they would have serious reservations and did express sear yuz reservations well go to darrell issa of california. Thank you mr. Cheryl. I will be careful when i say secretary. Secretary lew, would the sanctions or the sanctions in place as of today effectively curtailing both the money flow and the economy of iran in a way that has brought them to the table . Congressman i think that the sanctions have been very effective at slowing the rate of groemg in the growth and the inflation high and the Exchange Rate of the currency unfairable. I dont think they have stopped doing bad things around the world and maintain fiscal challenges and malign activities which we have to stay focused on stopping even we have an agreement. But the question was did it bring them to the table or did they come out of good will . No. I believe the sanctions brought them to the table and the safrpgs were the sanctions were designed to bring them to the table. Secretary kerry, you agree with that. I do agree with that. I think sanctions and other strategic designs but i think essentially the sanctions crystalized the timing. And when i look at the sanctions lifted under this agreement, i looked at in the classified an ex, a long list of ships and aircraft and banks that will receive the relief under this, im sure youre both familiar with the 2030 pages. The question i really have here, because i think were all focusing on the nuclear deal but i want to focus on iran, a exporter of terrorism and a killer directly and indirectly of americans and a killer of americans since 1979 all of those sanctions that were agreeing to lift is there anyone who doesnt think that the sanctions and more are appropriate as long as they continue to export terrorism kill americans and others and destabilize not one, not two, not three, but at least five countries throughout the middle east. Ill start with secretary lieu from a stand port of the tools that were living, the 40 pages or whatever, single spaces, the things that can carry oil, move money and so on those are most of them most of them, equally effective, in deterring terrorism, arent they. Congressman, as a class we are listing for relief from sanctions entities and individuals who were violating the nuclear provisions. Right. But the entities are banks in many cases. So a bank that was designated as a nuclear violator stays on. So bank sattarat stays on the list. If they are institutions that are dlists and relisted under other authorities under terrorism, we have every right to do that. But delisting is what you would expect if there is a Nuclear Agreement. The Nuclear Sanctions would go away but other sanctions stay in place. And they can be again, congressman, i want to emphasis that we share with everybody the concern about irans behavior within the region and we have the ability to bring sanctions with respect to that behavior as we go forward. Well, let me just give you a hypothetical and it is not a hypothetical without some thought. What if, at the same time as we dont reject this plan, we bring you a package of new sanctions. What if in fact congress determines the only way we can accept this risk is if we can truly essentially snapback now relative to their promise, just day the day after you sign this, they promise to destabilize baja rain and continue doing what they are doing in yemen and the support for hezbollah and hamas and the supporting of assad regime and taking of hezbollah and with that threat and that continued goal and continued activity is there anyone reason that we should not either reject this agreement or and or include further sanctions in order to keep them from expanding their support for the murder of americans and our allies around the world an the destabilizing of the middle east one that is leading to an arms race. Congressman we have powerful tools to snapback sanctions. Not snapback. Im talking about the day they are doing this what would you say we should be doing if the gentlemen will suspend, we need to go on simply because the junior members do not have sufficient time. And so lois. Thank you, mr. Chair, thank you, gentlemen. Some quick follow up questions and some new ones. If there is new enrichment sites detected under the 24day rule, will those sites then become under a constant inspection . If a new site is emerges in this . Yes. Absolutely. Okay. And could you tell me how many countries other than the p5 1 are currently engaged in sanctions and how long would you say that did it take to have all of these sanctions in place to get iran to the table . Congressman, i would have to check the number but our sanctions and International Sanctions are being honored around the world so it is many many countries and it has taken us years to put that regime in place and i would have to underscore our looney lateral sanctions are powerful but the ability to have effect still requires cooperation and the International Sanctions without exist without cooperation. Weve spent a lot of effort for countries for whom at substantial economic cooperate they have tried to stop iran from getting a Nuclear Weapon. How how could a snapback it concerns now how you get a snapback. How secretary kerry said earlier, there is unity in keeping iran from getting Nuclear Weapons. If they violate a Nuclear Weapon and if a snapback is warranted because of nuclear issues, the international and the u. S. Sanctions would snapback. We are continue to prosecute our unilateral sanctions on things like terrorism and regional destabilization and human rights but there are different regimes. Once congress if we dont disapproval this agreement and if it goes forward, will the congress u. S. Congress have any role any further role in this Agreement Number one. Number two, can any president alter this agreement or refuse to abide by it in the future . Well, congress will always have a role obviously. And youve made that Crystal Clear in the context of what were doing here now. So yes. I mean, there will be an op going role with respect to the enforcement and implementation. Do we have to vote on anything . Afterwards. To repeal sanctions . Ultimately, yes. Ultimately the iran sanctions act itself, there is the lifting of sanctions ultimately you have to have vote, and if we dont do that, are there any penalties on our part . Iran is free to break the agreement because we would have broken it and all bets are off. Can a future president refuse to abide by the agreement . Absolutely. A future president can but its our judgment that if this agreement is fully implemented and working well no future president is going to choose to do that because the implications. If this is working it is achieving our goal of knotting having a Nuclear Weapon in iran. And just to be clear, the actual weapons is the actual sanctions are way down the road. Probably eight or more years down the road. I want to get to the troubles inspections. Are you saying there is no limit to inspections by the iaea, that it will go on forever . Yes. What im saying is there is a process, congresswoman. And who pays for that . Well it is paid we pay a certain element of the budget. It is a u. N. Agency. We represent certain percentage of the budget, 25 and others contribute to it. We train the inspectors. That is one thing we do and do very effectively. But it is an in dependent entity. Excuse me. It is a separate secret agreement we dont see that will allow this continuation of inspections . No. That is the continuation of inspections is under what is culled the Additional Protocol and that is exactly that. That is what we dont get to see. No, you can see absolutely. Can you read every component of it. And i was sharing some thoughts with the Committee Earlier about the things that it empowers the iaea to do. The kind of accountability is very in depth and significant. That is what i was trying to point out. This is not some light set of requirement. Well go to mr. Mull brooks of alabama. Thank you mr. Chairman. Secretary kerry my questions require brief questions to comply with my five minute time limitations and i hope you will cooperate. Three months ago muhammed nokty stated that erasing israel off the map is none negotiatable and do you believe his comments reflect iranian government goals, yes, no or i dont know. I think it accurately reflects some peoples rhetoric or some peoples attitude but i dont think it is possible for iran to do that and i think it is israel has enormous capacity i didnt ask for all of the other. Im just asking if you have a judgment [ overlapping speakers ] my judgment is it is not an implementable policy by iran. Less than two weeks ago the ayatollah led a rally punctuated by chants of death to america and death to israel. Do you believe his comments reflect the iranian government goals, yes no or i dont know. I think they reflect a attitude and rhetorical excess but i see no evidence that they have a policy that is impleament impleamenting that against implementing us against that at this time. Do you believe that iran is the foremost responsibility of terrorism. Yes. And do you believe they will try to kill americans or israeliys . Well, they may. And we have, as you know, responded from that from 1979 when they took over our embassy forward, we have put sanctions in place specifically because of their support for terror, because of their abuse of human rights. Youve answered my question when you said yes they may. Next. Is the Obama Administration willing to use military force from obtaining building or testing or using military Nuclear Weapons. Yes. What has iran done in the past couple of years that causes you to believe they will abide by the Iran Nuclear Treaty or iran wants to become a responsibility member of the International Community. The only thing that indicates to us a willingness to try to comply with the agreement with the fact they have complied fully with the interim agreement with the last two years and we have put in place such a strict set of consequences that it is deeply in their interest to comply if they have reduced twothirds of the centrifuges, strips the stockpile put concrete of for the, and filled fordow. And what about the use of weapons and the foremost sponsor of terrorisms. We have serious concerns which is precisely why were engaged with our friends in the reeng yoj and which is why ill be there to meet with them in a few days and pushing back against the activities and well be engaging in special forces training Counter Insurgency Counter Insurgency and doing a better job of all of those things to take those steps. Muslim fundamentalists are willing to sacrifice their own lives to kill nonmuslims and other foes and giving the government how confident are you that iran will not use Nuclear Weapons to further death to america or israel if they obtain a Nuclear Weapon. They wont obtain a Nuclear Weapon and im confident under this Nuclear Company and with president obamas agreement commitment they will not gain a Nuclear Weapon. Is that because this administration is willing to use whatever means are necessary of a military nature to prevent iran from having a Nuclear Weapon. That is the final backup to it but i believe the elements of this agreement if it is implemented fully, again, if it is implemented, will prevent them from getting near that possibility. On occasion you have used the phrase all options are on the table. And do those options include the use of Nuclear Weapons by the United States . I never asked i never asked i know of any president of the United States who have ever taken all military options to them off the table but i also dont know of any realistic situation in which that would present a feasible strategy given the proximity of friends of ours to iran and the consequences of that but i dont think the president has taken any there is no option that has ever been discussed taken so when you talk about the use of military force is fair to infer we are talking about conventional weaponry . What the president has laid out is a and what the military has designed is a an approach and im not going to discuss that plan in open session here, but a plan that sufficiently meets the task of preventing them from having a Nuclear Weapon. That is the goal. That is the objective. And our current set of options accomplish that. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you. Walkjoaquin casto of texas. Thank you for your work on behalf of the nation. I want to imagine another scenario. A scenario where we dont take a deal and there is military action against iran. Can you imagine for a moment what would the fallout be from a destabilized iran . Weve seen other nations, libya iraq, egypt, where there have been destabilized regimes secular leaders replaced by fundamentalists and terrorism that has been franchised almost across the world. What would happen if iran was destabilized in the same way in. You know, congressman, it is hard for me to get into the speculative game and there is too much talk about military option and this and that when we have in front of us a plan that accomplishes the task of preventing iran from achieving a Nuclear Weapon which they say they dont want to do any way and have made very strong averments about their commitments not to do it seems that to be focused on the destabilized side of it and the military side of it is not the right focus. The right focus is on this agreement that accomplishes the goal of preventing them from having a weapon. Now the region is obviously destabilized and in flames and that is another reason why i think we should think carefully the consequences of turning away from this deal. And let me point out secretary kerry that, so im not coy here, im inclined to support the deal but one of the questions i have is i think a concern is we find out we think they are cheating and a decision has to be made if we are going to hold true to our position, not let them have a Nuclear Weapon. But frankly, congressman, that is the easiest decision in the world for this president and for all of us here. But here is my question, secretary. What is the Tipping Point where sanctions will no longer work and you have to take military action, if, in fact, you are going to keep them from the Tipping Point is a clarity with respect to what effort is being put into breaking out, if that is the choice theyve made, and where they are in that process. The Tipping Point is how much time you make a judgment that you have with respect to where they are starting and where they can wind up. But we are convinced with the depth of accountability and verification built into this agreement, we will have enormous tipoff to that. That is why a year was built into this agreement for the first ten years. And even after that. There is a lengthy enough period of time that our interest, the interest of the region, our friends, israel and others is protected. And were confident about our ability to have accountability in that process going forward. But i would say to everybody, if this is rejected then you have no inspections, you dont have a regime in place, you dont have the sanctions. Iran may undertake, maybe not immediately but they have certainly indicated they would consider themselves free to do so and as they do it what are the options then available to us . It seems when you compare the two scenarios this becomes not that complicated a choice. And my final question is to put this in context, can you go over again, i missed some of the discussion, but can you go over again the deal that was offered in 2003 by the Bush Administration . In 2008 is when it was offered. 2008, im sorry. 2003 there was discussions, about 103 centrifuges. The same p5 1 made an offer for enrichment and processing that the United States and the the p5 1 would recognize the right to energy for peaceful purposes and treat the Nuclear Program in the same manner as any nonnuclear party state to the npt once confidence had been built and provide technical and Financial Assistance including stateoftheart power reactor and support or r d and legally binding fuel guarantees, improve relations with iran and support iran in playing an important and constructive role in international affairs, work with iran and others in the region on confidence Building Measures and Regional Security and refrain from the threat or use of force cooperation on afghanistan, steps toward normalization of trade and economic relations and it goes on. All of these things were offered in ex ink for in exchange for enrichment. And that fact is one of the driving factors in our coming to the conclusion and the president coming to the conclusion that we needed to arrive in an agreement which recognized their ability to have Nuclear Power under safeguards agreement, under the npt with our ability to know what they are doing. Randy weber of texas. Thank you. Mr. Kerry, appreciate you being here. You said were going to be briefed on the Side Agreement that the iaea has with iran is that correct. Yes, that is correct. I want to implore you to use your power to make sure that were not briefed by the same staff that briefed susan rice and Hillary Clinton on sergeant rice or bowe bergdahl. Make sure we get a decent briefing there. You say this is the strongest negotiation you could get. You feel like it was. The president said he would walk away from a bad deal. And i would submit this. Now you come to us and you say there is not 535 secretaries of state and other countries dont appreciate their congress weighing in but if you were going to get a strong deal i said from the getgo, there was a stronger position you should have taken and i will set out some preclusion and you tell me if you agree. I agree with jeff duncan who said the american hostages should have been released first and foremost. Number two the demand should have been for iran to dismantle all of the centrifuge. Number three, give the iaea unfettered 24 7, 365 access. Stop the transporting of terror to syria and iraq and everywhere else. Number five denounce terrorism and prosecute those who perpetrate it. Restore civil rights in their own country number six, stop the death chant to america and israel and they need to recognize israels right to exist even as a jewish state i might add and number seven, secretary kerry, theyve been a bad actor for 36 years going back to 1979 so if this is not based on trust and actions, shurnt we required them to show by their own action i dont know for say half of the time since 1979 for a fourth of the year how about just two years, shouldnt we require them to show with their actions, you sade in your exchange with grace ming earlier that iran came to the table with enormous suspicions about the United States and me and my colleague up here are thinking who cares, were not the bad actors up here. Theyre the ones exporting terrorism. Did you start with from that basis of strength and if you did, how did we get here . You consider this to be a good deal . Well, congressman, plain and simple, all of the things you just listed there never would have been a negotiation. My heart pains for them. My heart pains for iran. These are bad actors. Congressman, what you need to think about is our security. We are better off with them not having a Nuclear Weapon. No question. They were already at 9000 centrifuges and already with enough material for 1012 bombs and enriching at 20 and stepping away from a plutonium reactor with enough material for one to two bombs a year. I get that. And we rolled that back. You said that. How long before we knew about fordow. We discovered fordow. We blew the whistle. How long was it there before we know about it . I dont know the precise amount of time. Ten years . We discovered that and we also discovered but you let me tell you. In 2003 we discovered they were trying to make a bomb and without inspectors. And this is about the trust you said. There is no trust. And youre implying we can catch them and get fordow that wasnt uncovered about 10 or 12 years. You talked about trust. We can classify in a classified environment well talk about that. Im running out of time. Are you aware of the fact that today today, iran to the united nations, new sanctions could kill the nuclear deal. They are still uttering threats against us. We are not the bad actors here. In a letter to a 15member body the u. N. Envoy said to iran, quote, may reconsider the commitments under the nuclear pact if u. S. And european sanctions lifted under the deal are impaired by continued application or the imposition of new sanctions with the nature and scope identical or similar to those in place prior to the implementation date irrespective of whether such new sanctions are introduced on Nuclear Related or other grounds unless the issues are remedied within a reasonably short time. Today they are threatening to walk away from the deal if we implement other sanctions. You say the hostages are different we have to go to Tulsi Gabbard of huhawaii. With the support of this nuclear deal of iran, the toughest global sanctions will be dismantled in exchange for irans compliance in practically speaking what is the status of the u. N. Resolution and the implications if Congress Disapproves the deal and over rides the president ial veto . Well, congresswoman, we built into this agreement a process that was kind of a compromise because our friends are our allies thought they should go immediately to the u. N. And implement immediately. Because congress had voted to have a review period and we waited them to have a 90 day period during which time it could not be implemented. So they had the vote but there is this grace period in order to protect the rights of congress and that was a balance between the desire of our friends to exercise their own sovereignty and do what they wanted under the u. N. Versus our desire to protect congresss right to review. So if congress does go through the review process and disapproves the deal, at that point what happens if Congress Overrides the veto there would be no deal. That passed unanimously would not stand . The entire deal dies because we cant lift the sanctions without the ability to waive and that has been taken away and that is part of the vote. So we would see this deal die. Okay. Thank you. And die without any other option. No alternative whatsoever. Secretary moniz, what evidence or materials could potentially be cleaned up or hidden within the 24day period listed in the inspections regime . Well there would be an attempt presumably to replace flooring, do all kinds of cleanup. And as i said we have skpleerns in the un experience in the unclassified and classified arenas in determines of detecting very small amounts of uranium so using Nuclear Materials there would typically be a strong signature. And if iran fails to allow inspectors entry within the 24day period, what consequences would they face and under what time line . If they fail to do it, they are in material breach of the agreement. We can snapback all of the sanctions and obviously all options are available to us that are available today. So immediately after that 24day period if they have if they fail to live up to the 24day period and provide the access they are in material breach of this agreement. And if we had cause to have gone and asked for access to an undisclosed facility about which we have deep concerns, everybody will join with us in ratifying that concern and well be operating with the consent if you will, of the International Community because of irans noncompliance, which is one of the reasons why i believe we have huge leverage for compliance. And after termination day when the snapback mechanism will no longer apply iran is still subject to the protocol, what are the subjects to if they violate that Additional Protocol after the termination day. We still have the power of brinking sanctions and we can go right back to square one or we have other options available to us. I think the concern is the time it takes for those kinds of unilateral sanctions to apply whether from the United States or the Global Community as we have seen from the past, what immediate consequences will there be. If they are in material noncompliance in a way that is threatening, obviously we are in a much more serious kind of situation and confrontation with the potential needless to say of the president taking the most dramatic options. I would just add exactly, as senator kerry said, it would depend on the motivation, what they were doing. Certainly, in my view anything that shows Movement Toward a Nuclear Weapon would have to be responded to quite forcefully. I would also add, going back to something congresswoman ming asked and i think it is relevant to your statements as well, is that the p5 by definition have a special role in the npt and a very strong interest in seeing the integrity maintained. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Scott perry of pennsylvania. Thank you mr. Chairman and gentlemen, we appreciate your indulgence indulgence. We know it has been a long time. In the context of these statements, as i would like to ask my questions. From 1994, so not too long ago. Were talking about 11, 15 year context of this deal, from the most strict portions of it, so from 1994, the entire world will be safer as we slow the spread of Nuclear Weapons, is one statement and also the United States and International Inspectors will carefully monitor north korea to make sure it keeps its commitments and we know that is quotes from president clinton, none of that happened and north korea is what it is and we are where we are. In that context secretary kerry, reading your quote recently with a reporter from alaria by yu. I dont know how to interpret at this point in time except to take it at face value in relation to chants to death to america and death to israel, were going to continue our policy. And then it is very troubling and very dushisturbing and well have to wait and see. What will we have to wait and see. And before you answer. 1979, 52 u. S. Hostages, 444 days. The u. S. Marine barracks. 241 americans killed. 1992, the israeli embassies in argentina bombs. And the saudi ambassador in d. C. And the killing and maimings of hundreds in iraq and afghanistan and support of assad, hezbollah and hamas and activities in iraq syria and yemen, what will we have to wait and see. The implementation of the plan, congressman. You and i can have a speechoff if you want. I dont want to have a speechoff but im interested in your comments. We can have a competition about who is angrier about some of the things iran has done historically. We understand what they did to americans and in kopitar but they were marching toward a Nuclear Weapon. Mr. Secretary you must understand this is my time. People see iran like a crocodile or a shark that does what it does. And were going to give the crocodile or a shark and a few more teeth and see if it does something different. That is not accurate. [ overlapping speakers ] and let me say this. You have said we dont have a better option. You havent provided a better option. First of all. Mr. Secretary, with all due respect, it is not congresss job, this is the administration and if you use the treaty process as provided by the constitution, maybe we wont be in this situation. And you say this is the only deal we can get this is no better deal. Congress has a long history of introducing better deals. Including 80 multilateral accords, including the arms agreement, salt 2 and the threshold treaty that failed to reach a vote and modified so there is a history and if the ayatollah doesnt like it and doesnt want to negotiate it boo hoo, were here for america. We stand for america. You represent america. With that having been said, in another interview, if you dont get a majority in congress to support that deal, doesnt that undermine the deal and your statement, it is abbreviated, they dont care over there assuming you mean iraq as long as the deal is implemented. And that is what we care about, this deal being implemented. So do you care more about the deal or the u. N. Approval or american sofry continue and the approval of the American People through their duly elected representatives. Congressman i dont need any lessons from you about who i represent. I represented this country since i was out of college. And god bless you for that let me make it sure. This is americas interest. And particularly with respect to to some of our closest friends. We believe that iran was marching toward a weapon or the capacity to have a weapon and weve rolled that back. That is your opinion. That issin disputable. [ overlapping speakers ] let me ask you this. That is a fact. Is it possible that iran will acquire Russian Air Defense missiles to protect sites. Possible or not possible. Say that again. Is it possible that iran will acquire russian air missiles to protect Nuclear Sites . Those are not in the agreement. They have a300s. In relations to the arms embargo lifting . No. They are outside of the arms embargo. Were going to brandon boil of pennsylvania and my intention is to keep going to give the junior members an opportunity to ask questions. Thank you. I actually want to direct my question to secretary moniz and im probably going to be a little boring here but a very technical question that when i asked the white house and the president specifically, he directed it to you saying youre one of the top ten experts in the world on this. So with that buildup there is a report about six days ago in the New York Times that really questioned this issue of the 24 days. And there are some such as you said earlier this said look, 24 days is not exactly like youre flushing a whole program down the toilet. That certainly wouldnt be enough time to hide elicit behavior. The former Deputy Director of the iaea contradicted that and said while its true with some of the larger scale operations, some things such as manufacturing uranium components as well as triggers actually could be covered up in the 24 days. So im really trying to get a clear answer on this issue. Because i actually think its one of the key components when trying to look at this in an intellectually honest way to see if we really have a verifiable deal here. Yes. And ive spoken with him, and he is up the river from m. I. T. At hard harvard these days. The issue i want to emphasize, what ive always said is work with Nuclear Materials, we have very, very high confidence in terms of finding microscopic amounts. Right. There. When you go to things like triggers things that do not involve Nuclear Materials but are important for a nuclear explosive, then that gets into a higher stage of requirement, as ive said and in a classified environment, we can talk a little bit more about it. Even there there can be some signals, some signals that are quite interesting and certainly might be quite detectable. But certainly, one gets further away from the Nuclear Materials then there are more possibilities of both coverup and for at least maybe seem my creditability explanations for pursuing other activities. For example, any military does work with conventional explosives in chambers. So the question is was that work around certain hemispherecal shapes and that requires more and more investigation. But Nuclear Material can leave quite significant signatures typically. I wanted with just only a couple of minutes, let me switch. Because this is something that the israeli ambassador raised in my office and has been raised a couple of times. And again, i think is a legitimate i realize that some of this is bashing the administration and that its part of politics. But there are those of us on the democratic side who do have real genuine concerns that 24 days one of them. The other is the question of how exactly we bring forward and what we have to reveal in terms of our intelligence to demand or request that a site is being inspected. It has been pointed out that we would have to reveal why exactly we suspect the site meaning we would have to compromise where we got intelligence and why we suspect it. Can you talk about how that process would work and how much we would have to reveal to the iranians just in order to inspect the site . Well, thats something that ultimately you really should pick up with the Intelligence Community, obviously. And certainly protecting sources and methods is particularly important. Now having said that, clearly in the past, intelligence agencies from many countries have been able to share information. And i also note that of course four out of the seven countries involved in the talks are very Work Together quite closely, namely the europeans and the United States. And i think we would do all that we could to provide the iaea with relevant information that would point to a suspicious site no matter where it was. But clearly, again, the sources and methods i think you have to could i ask secretary kerry to weigh in on that point . Ive been through this kind of thing a little bit on occasion. And were very careful not to disclose sources and methods. And we have ways of providing information and making it available in ways that dont compromise that. I can assure you, that will not happen. Its not something that our community is feels prevented or stopped by. But let me just point out, because you mentioned the israeli ambassador was in there talking to you about these concerns. Sandy levin is the longest serving jewish member of the United States congress and he came out today i read his statement. And he was asked about it and he said israels security has and always will be of critical importance to me and our country. I believe that israel, the region and the world are far more secure if iran does not move towards the possession of a Nuclear Weapon. I believe the agreement is the best way to achieve that. Were going to mr. Ron desantos of florida there is a vote on. Two minutes remain. Secretary moniz with respect to the agreement between iran and the iaea for the possible military dimension, have you read those documents or agreements . No, sir, have i not seen them. Okay. And to your knowledge, nobody in the u. S. Government has a copy of the agreements . To my knowledge, we do not have a copy. In vienna, we had very brought oral, i had at least a broad oral briefing. But i never saw any paper. So you were briefed in vienna before the jcpoa was announced . Yes. Shortly before, yes. Who briefed you . D. J. Amano. And do you have any plans to request that those documents be provided to Congress Consistent with the Iran Nuclear Review act . I dont know if it is consistent. Ill check with our folks and make a determination. I dont think we judge that it is consistent. But well, as weve said, we will certainly brief contents appropriate classified section. If you can provide us the rationale of why you said i said i dont know. Congressman, i just said i dont know. If you make that determination, if could provide us the legal justification so we can look at it. We of course we would do that. Sure. Okay, very good there is a report in the Associated Press today that the agreement between iran and the iaea may not be completed there was something about maybe iran would be the one to take the soil samples. Can you guys comment . Is it in fact still being negotiated between iran and the iaea . In session here, we cant discuss with the methodology is. Were happy to take this on in classified session. Can you confirm the story . Have you seen it . Absolutely not, and i cant. You cannot . I can not confirm it. Okay. Ive seen it among other things. Secretary moniz we get into obviously its a very complex agreement. Well get into a lot of different things. Obviously very important. And i know you guys worked hard on it. But sometimes i like to take a step back and just a few years ago, it had been pretty much the general policy of the United States that an agreement would be simply iran gives up its Nuclear Program, no enrichment. The u. N. Had always said no enrichment. The president when he was debating governor romney in 2012 said the u. N. Would accept they end their Nuclear Program. Its very straight forward. Secretary moniz, do you acknowledge that this agreement i know you guys think its good and lets put that aside. Do you acknowledge that this agreement doesnt meet that standard of where theyre ending their Nuclear Program that theyre allowed to maintain a significant Nuclear Program . The International Community is going to be helping them develop Nuclear Technology . I know you guys are going to say that youre confident youll be able to detect if thats used in a military capacity. But that does represent a change, does it not, from where we were just a few years ago . Congressman ive had conversations with members of the prior administration, and im not going to its inappropriate for me to tell you who or speak for them. But i think if you talk to them, you will learn that they had come to a conclusion by the end of that administration that that policy wasnt working, and that they were going to need to in fact have some structure of enrichment, some structure of the program. There is a distinction here between irans Nuclear Weapons capacity and a peaceful Nuclear Program. Unlike north korea which pulled out the npt, iran is still a signatory to the npt. Iran has not exploded an ordnance. Iran has not yet gone forward to make a weapon, even though they had enough material for 10 to 12 bombses. So iran is stating in this agreement its willingness to comply with and live within the nonproliferation treaty. Under the nonproliferation treaty countries have a right to a peaceful Nuclear Program. So i get clear with the question, youre acknowledging that there has been a reappraisal and the goalpost and its one that shared by people in both the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration . I dont think they shared it publicly, but they shared it with us privately. May i understand that the construct going in, then and this was among the p5 plus 1 that our basic construct would get the breakout time. Take, real quick like because this is not going to be ratified as a treaty, there are a lot of states and florida particularly where state legislatures have enacted sanctions against iran in various capacities. Do you acknowledge that this deal will not affect states ability to do it since its not going to be approved as a treaty. Its not going to be considered the supreme law of the land. It will be more of an executive to an executive agreement. Thats accurate. But we would urge the states if iran is fully complying with this statement well take steps to urge them not to interfere with that. Mr. Ted yoho of florida, and dont feel compelled to use all your time, yes, sir, i understand. I appreciate it. I appreciate yall being here. Mr. Secretary i want to ask you a simple yes or no question. The iran sanction act expires on december 31st, 2016. Will this Administration Support legislation simply extending irans sanctions act so that the nuclearrelated sanctions it provides for can be snapped back if iran is caught cheating . Yeah its a yes or no. Well we obviously are committed to isa. But i dont think any decision has been made on time organize what steps the president will take. Well, can we do the snapbacks without this . Yes, we can. According to this we cant because the iran sanctions act expires. Those are necessary to have snapbacks. We have other existing authorities we can snap back financial and can you guarantee this body that those acts or facilities are going to be in place so that snapback does work without an act of congress . Yes. And i have a problem with the secret deals that are going on. And youre asking us to support this deal without being able to read it. It kind of reminds me of the health care law. I dont want to be in that situation. Youre asking us to vote on something we dont know what is in that deal. And i think its very disingenuous to ask us as members of the representatives of the United States citizens to vote on a deal without knowing whats in it. Well, were not. We said that ive said to three or four congressmen i heard that but its not clear that the information is going to be forthright. Were going to get briefs, but briefs is not the same as being able to read the actual agreement. And i realize its the iaea with iran, but, you know were paying 25 of the budget of that place. I think we as the representatives of the American People, we deserve that. And i wont support this without that. Congressman, on the iran sanctions act, can i just add two things . First, it doesnt expire until the end of 2016. And now would not be the appropriate time. Its premature to take answer. I think respectfully we know that if there is a problem in 2016, it wont take very long for congress to act. Well you say its premature to take action, and this will be my last question, or statement, i think. You say this is the best deal we get. And if we walk away from the table, we walk away alone. I feel that you, this negotiating team put america in that situation because of the way you negotiated us from the very beginnings. If we go back to the very beginning, iran will not be allowed to have a Nuclear Weapon. And you said, mr. Secretary, i heard it come out of your mouth, anywhere, anytime, any place. Thats been passed on. Were beyond that point. And its beyond the point of trying to prevent iran from having a Nuclear Weapon. Were trying to prevent something that we cant instead of preparing for that what we will have. We have been boxed into a bad corner because you guys negotiated from weakness instead of as a superpower, and you go into the u. N. To get their approval first so that we look like the bad guys. This is a bad deal. And i think if we operate from a level of strength, iran will come back to the negotiating table. To think that theyre going to come back to the negotiating table a year or two from now, i think thats a fallacy. And i think its disingenuous to america. Mr. Congressman i urge you i urge you mr. Congressman, with all respect to spend time with the intel community. I think you will hear a very different judgment from them. No disrespect, but we get those people in here all the time. We sit in intelligence briefs. We hear from them. And theyre telling us this is a bad deal. If you say and president obama says this is going to make america safer congressman, the Intelligence Community supports this deal it will be safer. Yet the Intelligence Community is telling us to build Missile Defense systems on the east coast, bolster the ones on the west coast and alaska because this is a great deal . I think we should run away. Im going to yield back. Thank you. The Intelligence Community supports this deal, congressman. And whats more, theyre an integral part of helping to shape it. And furthermore, the reason we are able to get the good deal we got is because we did operate out of position of strength which is why they are dismantling 2 3 of their program, undoing their stockpile, living by restraints on their enrichment, and have accepted the Additional Protocol as well as 25year restraints on their uranium and so forth. I disagree with you. Just to add, the agreement is that iaea and iran, the iaea will complete its pmd. Thats the agreement. Its a protocol. Thank you. Secretary kerry earlier in the hearing today, you said that countries in the future, if the Congress Rejects the deal countries in the future will not trust negotiating with the u. S. State department because theyre now negotiating with 535 individual members of congress. For 228 years the constitutional provided a way out of that mess by allowing treaties to be with the advice and consent of 267 senators. Why is this not considered a treaty . Congressman i spent quite a few years trying to get a lot of treaties through the United States senate. And frankly, its become physically impossible. Thats why. Because you cant pass a treaty anymore. And its become impossible to you know, schedule. Its become impossible to pass. And i sat there leading the charge on the disactbilityies treaty which fell to basically ideology and politics. So i think thats the reason why. Okay. I mean i disagree with that. Political world around here is pretty challenging for both Political Parties and certainly for the congress and the president. I would say this. That one of the concerns that have been voiced to me by my constituents is the fact in the president s press conference about this agreement he threatened to veto the congresss action if we didnt agree with him anyway. So there was this arbitrary poke in the nose of the congress when it was unnecessary. And so my folks back home are saying i want to have some say in this. And my only say is through you. I think that may be could have been handled a little bit different. Secretary moniz go ahead secretary. I understand. Secretary moniz is it not billions of dollars cheaper to build a natural gas power plant rather than a Nuclear Power plant . Why do you suppose the iranians have gone down the nuclear road when theyre so carbon rich . Theyve got a trillion gallons of reserves in natural gas. Wouldnt it have been much cheaper for them if the idea was just peaceful electricity to have gone that route . Well, a natural gas power plant has lower capital costs, but typically, a Nuclear Plant has lower operating points. But at this point the natural gas would be free to them. Im not sure its free. Certainly in the sense again im not arguing one way or the other. But just what the argument is that its more valuable thanes a an export product where of course with lng prices for example, in parts of the world, there is quite a bit of rent to be captured. Yeah sure, sure. Secretary lew, i appreciate your patience today. Havent been called on that much. But in light of how penalizing the economic sanctions have been on this economy, it still strikes me odd that iran would continue to move toward this very, very expensive construction project as opposed to other alternatives. Does this seem oddi mean billions and billions of dollars to build a Nuclear Power plant. Which expense . The expense of actually constructing Nuclear Power plants. Theyve been under great stress economically. I think that they have been under enormous stress like any government, they make decisions based on their short and their longterm needs. I cant question why they have chosen one form of a power plant over another. What i do know is their infrastructure including their power is inadequate. North to have economic growth, they do need more power. And thats going to require investment. Its one of the reasons i believe they have domestic needs that far exceed any relief theyre going to get. Their domestic infrastructure is in a bad condition right now. It seemed to me that one of the possible solutions of this whole deal would have been for the p5 plus 1 countries to assist them in building alternative sources of electrical power to meet that need as opposed to setting this canard up now where in 15 years if they choose they can nuclearize from a weapon standpoint. And with that ill go ahead and yield back. Thank you, mr. Trott, and mr. Zeldan. Mr. Trott . Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for being here and for your service. Secretary kerry, you said in your Opening Statement there have been major distortions and president obama actually said yesterday that there have been no factual arguments on the other side that are worth scrutiny. So lets simply yes or no. These are the facts that were basing the negotiations off of at the outset. Theyre Holding American hostages, theyre sponsoring terrorism, calling for death to america, want israel wiped from the face of the earth, guilty of egregious Human Rights Violations antsz creating ingsability around the world. Are those fact true . Yeah, they are. If you look at those facts and collectively would suggest that iran is guilty of bad behavior . Well, i think its more than just bad behavior. Theyre destabilizing countries and blowing people up somewhere is beyond bad behavior. Ill take that as a yes. So how would a deal lets say i wanted to sell my business to lee. Back when i was in the Business World and doing an acquisition, i would always say to my team you cant do a good deal with a bad guy. So can you sort of understand our concern about this deal . Because it sure looks like if were doing a good deal as you suggest, its with a bad guy. I understand exactly what youre saying, and its you know, we confronted questions about what could be achieved or not achieved in the course of these negotiations ourselves and came to the conclusion therefore that nothing is based on trust that we are going to set up something that you can read, we can read, that everybody can understand what the expectations are. And thats one of the reasons why from a position question we believe we achieve something that helps establish some level of confidence over the years and thats the level to which they will reduce their current program, reduce their stockpile live by limitations on enrichment, which are absolutely ascertainable and so forth. So we have created we think a dynamic here where you get over the hurdle of the things you dont like and the bad behavior because you have created something that is verifiable and has certainty in it. Is there any chance that irans strategy is to get the bill signed, get the 50 billion and a year or so down the road start to violate the agreement . Thats what we said earlier. I know. Thats the challenge of going last or next to last. And i appreciate you staying. Isnt there a chance a year from now its going to be a whole lot more difficult for us to get the ban back together and be able to put in place some of the protections . Not if theyre breaking the agreement. So russia and china are just going to go along and say gosh, United States, we understand your concern and what can we do to get back in . Were convinced about the seriousness of purpose of all of our five other partners in this effort. Hindsight is 20 20 and im not asking you to necessarily evaluate how we got to this point. Is there any credibility to the concern i think someone earlier mentioned maybe decisions by ambassador rice or the administration or your negotiating team really put us in a position now if we dont sign this deal, were really left without any good options . Any concern in hindsight we could have done things a little differently, maybe u. N. Resolution 2019, other decisions that were made along the way that put us in the box in terms of having no great options . Well, we think we have a great option. The great option is the agreement we came. To and we did not create the box, by the way. You guys decide you wanted to review it and now youre reviewing it. And im sorry about the consequences of that review but thats not our creation. The consequences of the review are the reality that this agreement cannot go forward. And there are consequences to that. I have no regrets sir, about having the responsibility for reviewing this agreement. Im not arguing with you. That your right to do it. But we are arguing the consequences when you weigh the benefit of this agreement going through versus the consequence of not doing it are serious. Im sorry, go ahead. One last question, simple. I appreciate your time. You said earlier that this was never about making sure iran did not have a Nuclear Program, but rather about making sure they did not have a Nuclear Weapon. The capacity to build a Nuclear Weapon or get one. So what did president obama or candidate obama mean in the debate with mitt romney in 2012 when he said the deal we will accept is they end their Nuclear Program. Its very straight forward. So he really was just talking about the capacity to create a Nuclear Weapon, not a Nuclear Program . Having met romney in preparation for that debate, i can assure thats what he meant for the debate. Thank you for your time. I hope youre doing okay on your crutches. Theyre not any fun. Mr. Lee zeldan of new york. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Kerry just now in response to the question with regards to a question you said this wasnt a treaty because it was difficult to pass. Is that correct . No there are a lot of other reasons. We dont have diplomatic relations with iran. Its very complicated with six other countries. Its just very complicated process. So we thought that the easiest way to get something that had the leverage had the accountability could achieve our goal was through a political agreement. Mr. Secretary, if you would be able to submit for the record just a little more background as to why this is not treated as a treaty . I think it would be helpful for us. Absolutely, sure. Id be happy to do it. Okay. And you said a little earlier the reason why iran came to the table is they wanted the relief from the sanctions. The iranian Supreme Leader said the Islamic Republic of iran will not give up support of its friends in the region, the oppressed people of palestinian, the syrian and iraqi governments, the oppressed people of bahrain and sincere resistance fighters in lebanon and palestine. There is so much state sponsorship of terror in that list, mr. Secretary. The hezbollah leader hassan rala said this past weekend the United States remains the great satan both before and after the nuclear accord. The leverage that brought the iranians to the negotiating table was the sanctions relief. Let me just recap some of the stuff that wasnt even part of the negotiations. Iran developing icbms, overthrowing foreign governments, sponsors terror, unjustly imprisoning United States citizens, including a marine, a pastor, a reporter. Chanting death to america pledging to wipe israel off the map. None of that was part of the negotiations. Irans neighbors who know them the best trust them the least. Its something for us to think about. I would also ask if you to submit for the record a little bit more in the plan as for stopping all the other iranian terror that wasnt part of the deal. I think it would be very helpful for congress to have a better sense of what the plan is regarding everything that wasnt part of the deal. And mr. Secretary, if we remove the sanctions, were removing the leverage that brought the iranians to the table. Over 70 years ago, leader of the free world held up a document, declared it peace for our time. Im afraid that many years from now if the American People through their representatives in congress accept this bad deal that just like the munich agreement of 1938, this iranian agreement will prove to not be in the best interests of American Security or the stability and safety of the free world. There is an alternative other than war. Its a better deal. You say getting a better deal is a fantasyland. Some other stuff that i would consider fantasyland is believing that you have access to military sites when the iranian lich leadership tells us that we dont. Fantasyland is agreeing to a threemember Advisory Board when one of the members is declared an independent member but there is no details how that independent member is selected. Fantasyland is saying there is no secret deal with iran and the iaea each though were acknowledging there is an agreement and that its secret. Fantasyland is saying that this deal provides 24 7 where necessary, when necessary inspections which dont in fact exist. A fantasyland is saying iran does not want to destroy the United States, dismissing their death to america pledge as just rhetoric. I dont believe that this is a great option, as you just said to the last person. I know it. The American Public knows it, there is an alternative other than war that is a better deal. America got played like a fivestring quartet. A lot of americans have fought and died to make our country the greatest nation in the world. And you, sir, respectfully you dont have the power to surrender our greatness. And i would strongly with all these hypotheticals, that if Congress Rejects this deal, that everything falls apart, you have not yet answered what you would do next, what would you three secretaries do if Congress Rejects the deal . Because the answer on the next day is that no one shows up to work. No one is working with the International Community to try to protect america and the free world. So if Congress Rejects the deal when you wake up the next morning, sir, what would you do . Well, congressman, you threw a lot out there all at once. All of us take affront at the comments that are made publicly by many people in iran, whether its a general or a leader of one kind or another or the ayatollahs comments. What is important is what iran does, not what it says, what it does. For two years now, iran lived bay deal that many of your colleagues here called a historic mistake. But they lived by it. They have actually rolled their program back and president obama is the first president in the United States who has challenged this issue who has actually rolled the Iranian Program back significantly and stopped them from the path to get a weapon. Now mr. Secretary with all do respect, forsake of time, just asking what you would do the next morning. You not answered the question. Im coming to that. Of what the administration. Mr. Zeldin, there is a vote on and your time is expired. Thank you. If you could submit that to record. Sure. I want to thank our witnesses for being was today. These are not easy issues. Congress will be taking a historical vote on this agreement in september. The committee will continue doing its job before that vote and after. And i thank each of our witnesses again for being with us today and staying through the process of having all of the members ask their questions. We stand adjourned. On the next washington journal, ted yoho, a member of the House Foreign Affairs committee will talk about the process for congress to review the Iran Nuclear Agreement. Then a discussion on efforts by puerto ricos leadership to resolve its 72 billion debt with resident commissioner pedro pierluisi. And later, as part of our spotlight on magazines, a look at a story in american prospect on how the south drives the low wage economy. The magazines editor at large harold mireson will join us. Washington journal is live every morning at 7 eastern, and you can contribute to the program by phone and facebook and twitter. When congress is in session cspan 3 brings you more of the best access to congress, with live coverage of hearings news conferences, and key Public Affairs events. And every weekend its American History tv. Traveling to Historic Sites discussions with authors and historians and eyewitness accounts of events that define the nation. Cspan3. Coverage of congress and American History tv. Now labor secretary thomas perez talks about efforts to boost workforce training and grow the number of jobs in the u. S. This is from the National Governors Association Meeting held over the weekend in White Sulphur springs west virginia. More from the meeting tonight on a discussion on combatting Prescription Drug abuse. You can watch on cspan3 or any time at cspan. Org. Right now here is the session with labor secretary perez. Good afternoon, everyone. Were going to start our session, please. So the meeting of the National Governors Association Education and Workforce Committee is called to order. Thank you all for joining us. Im maggie hassan, governor of New Hampshire, and im vice chair of the education and Workforce Committee. Governor sandoval is unable to attend todays session as he is overseas on a trade mission bringing more jobs to his state. But its truly been an honor to lead the education and Workforce Committee with him this year. So first a bit of housekeeping. The proceedings here today are open to the press and all meeting attendees. As a consideration, would you all just take a minute, please, to ensure that your cell phones are silenced. The briefing books for this meeting were sent to governors in advance and can also be found in the blue binder in front of you. They include the agenda Background Information updates on state and federal actions under this committees jurisdiction and materials from our speakers. To my right is steven parker, legislative director of the education and Workforce Committee. So please see him or nga staff if you need any assistance or have any questions. Today we are pleased to be joined by thomas perez, our nations secretary of lead labor. We are excited to hear from harold levy and crystal bonds from the high school for math and science at the City University of new york. As governors, we are constantly trying to create more jobs in our state by helping grow existing businesses and attracting new companies from overseas. And sometimes even trying to attract jobs and businesses from other states. Each governor wants to be the best Jobs Creation officer this the country. However, before the press releases announcing the latest deal to bring dozens or even thousands of new jobs to our state, we have to answer one really important question, can we actually fill those jobs . Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly difficult for us to answer yes to that question . In the fall of 2014, a business round table survey found that more than half of the ceos from major corporations view the shortage of skilled talent available for open positions as a major hurdle to their u. S. Operations. Yet this skills gap isnt just affecting our largest companies. Last month as part of the National Federation of independent business study, 80 of Small Businesses said that they had few or no qualified applicants for their open positions. As i travel around New Hampshire, what i hear more than anything else from our businesses both big and small is the need for an Even Stronger workforce pipeline. We are living in an innovation economy, and it can only be fuelled by hard wiring innovation in our k through 12, our post secondary, and workforce training systems. If our students arent prepared for the jobs of the future, we cant keep those jobs in our state. And more importantly, we have failed at giving the next generation opportunities for a successful life. Thats why were doing everything in the Granite State that we can to help our students develop the skills and innovative thinking needed for good jobs in the 21st century economy. Earlier this year, i proclaimed 2015 a year of stem in New Hampshire. And just last week i signed an executive order reestablishing the Governors Task force on science, technology, engineering and math education, bringing together experts from the education and business communities to help implement the Previous Task forces recommendations, and to develop new ones. In New Hampshire modernizing how we educate our students in these high demand fields is critical to helping them develop the skills needed for good jobs in the innovation economy, which will help lead to better paying and more stable careers. Were developing innovative partnerships between Higher Education and the Business Community, such as the one between Albany Safran in rochester and Great Bay Community college that is helping to position our emerging Aerospace Sector as a leader in the industry. And New Hampshire is also breaking new ground on how student progress should be measured with innovative high quality competency base aid saysments that provide more certainty that student have mastered key content and skills before moving to the next grade level. New hampshires performance assessment for competency education, what we call pace, a first in the nation accountability strategy, and pace is a louing districts to reduce the levels ops standardized testing to test morse integrated into a students day to day work. Bolstering Stem Education is just one pathway to creating career opportunity. In iowa, governor branstad is making his state a leader in registered partnerships. Since 2011, the governor has increased the number of registered apprentices to more than 8,000 participating in more than 600 Apprenticeship Programs. The governor is using the strength of this new career ready workforce to attract billion investments from Companies Like facebook and microsoft. In arkansas governor hutchinson is bringing creek and Technical Education to the forefront through the creation of a Skills Development office to bring together education and the Business Community. He also created a Career Education and Workforce Development board composed of representatives from various industrial sectors. As part of tennessees drive to 55 initiative governor haslem has pioneered leap, to ensure that post secondary institutions in his state are producing the skills and credentials that tennessee employers actually need. The governor is utilizing grants and local alignment groups to tie the training and skills that his colleges are teaching directly to current Workforce Needs to help more tennesseeans qualify for good paying, high quality jobs. And just last month, governor hickenlooper signed a bill ensuring that colorado students get a head start on Career Training while they are still in high school through an innovative dual enrollment program. The governors new pathways and Technology Early College High Schools will allow students to earn an Associates Degree while completing their High School Diploma through programs focused on high demand stem fields. With governors from connecticut to california connecting education to the workforce system and creating Innovative New pathways to careers, the federal government took notice and has taken steps to support this work in the past here with reauthorizations of key legislation. The workforce innovation and opportunity act reauthorized last year by Congress Gives governors more flexibility to meet the Training Needs of their states workforce by allowing them to connect federal education and workforce programs with their state systems. Congress built on this alignment this year as they worked to reauthorize the elementary and secondary education act and create a role for governors to bring the Business Community and the workforce system to the table to ensure that college or Career Readiness is a reality. Today secretary perez will engage us in a conversation on how to leverage these federal resources to build a world class workforce in every state. Following the secretary, harold levy and crystal bonds will illustrate how innovative state policies are creating opportunities for students every day in high schools and colleges across the country. They will offer action steps for governors to continue to create pathways to current and future high demand job opportunities. Following each of their presentation, time is reserved for q a. The bulk of this session is reserved for governors discussions to prepare policies in our state that accelerate reform. Before we proceed to our program, well hear what governors have been doing at the state and federal level to advance education and workforce. So im now going to turn our program over to martin simon and richard lane from our best practices group. And they can talk what were all doing to build the Talent Pipeline. Thank you. Governor, thank you very much and governor good afternoon, governors. My name is richard lane. My colleagues and i are the team that provide Consulting Service to you all and your staff to help you answer many of the questions when you ask the question what does the research say about best practice. What do the programs in states that are doing the best on specific areas, and what are the talents that you need to grow to start to pass and implement good practices and learn lessons from each other. Division supports the education reform, as governor hassan said along the entire education pipeline from Early Education to k12 toe secondary and into the workforce. Let me give you a specific example of the work were doing in collaboration with our Workforce Division. In terms of connecting the education pipeline to the workforce. Building on governor fallons efforts last year, the past work of the center, and the fact as governor hassan said that you are jobs governors and education governors, our division and the Workforce Division created a twoyear consulting and engagement to work with 14 states. Many represented around this table, to help you improve and align your education and Training Pipeline to the Workforce Needs. Were working hand in hand with martin simon and his team. But in terms of the Technical Assistance were providing, and the grants of up to 170,000 per state, were bringing together state leaders from your k12 system, post secondary labor, commerce, and the private sector to articulate what the needs of the private sector are so that you can start to align your twoyear fouryear, your Workplace Training programs to the needs of the economy and to create better opportunities for students to make choices that will give them better Life Opportunities to enter the middle class and beyond. Were helping your state to connect the labor and Education Data that theyre collecting that oftentimes sit in silos to help you better understand how do you align the programs and the opportunities that students need to understand where the jobs are, what the training requirements are. The other piece that is starting to play very strongly in the states this summer and beyond is were helping the states inventory the federal and state resource that are available to use to start to think about how youre spending your training and workforce dollars. Its amazing when we ask the question of states where are you spending the dollars . Most of them dont know the pots of monies that sit in isolation from the federal government or even in the state that could be realigned to is the vision youre trying to create for your students in creating the Education Workforce training opportunities. As a result of the 14 states that were working with were creating the Lessons Learned both positive and negative. Were creating the tools both from the states that are in this policy academy as well as many of the states that are not involved but working on this issue and putting together tool kits so that other states will be able to utilize to start to inventory resources, figure out how to present data in such a way that its meaningful to students and their families and to employers and start to real locate the resources to actually make a difference on the ground. In fact, from these lessons were going to be working through with the current 14 state, we expect to have a second state selected in early 2016 that will be able to accelerate the work and the effort yourself trying to do in connecting education in the workforce. So thats the snapshot of what ear doing in the Talent Pipeline. Let me turn it over to my colleague martin simon to talk more about future opportunities. Good afternoon, governs. Governors. Again, good afternoon governors. Im martin simon. Part of the economic Human Services lets see. Ive got bring this closer. Okay. Im going to use up all my time here just getting the mic set. Again, im with the economic Human Services and Workforce Division in the nga center. I appreciate the opportunity to spend a couple of minutes talking about a new project that were just starting at the nga center that builds on the work that richard described and will compliment the work under way in your states that governor hassan just described. On july 1, we initiated a new project that is focusing on demanddriven workplace learning that is supported by ed byed by ed byed by seemans foundation well be working with six states a that will be connecting them with middle school jobs in stem area. Well have a competitive Selection Process. Participating states will receive up to 100,000 grant to cover the extra costs of participating. We will issue the selective Selection Process this fall for this project. On a parallel track, weve been working with the u. S. Department of labor on the American Apprenticeship Initiative that focuses on rethinking aapprenticeship in this country and in the department investing 100 million in grants to expand apprenticeship in Traditional Industries and in new industries. I know secretary perez is going to talk more about this initiative. Workplace training approaches, bridge the worlds of learning and work their apprenticeship, their internships, their onthejob training and their work experience. These are earn and learn approaches that prepare young people with the relevant skills and employers need. But also so that they can achieve economic success for themselves. All 14 of the states that are participating in the Talent Pipeline policy academy that richard talked about are incorporating Work Base Learning approaches into their strategies for developing pathways to jobs and careers in the Growth Industries in their states. The workforce innovation and opportunity act that went into effect july 1 had its First Anniversary just on the 22nd a couple of days ago. Requires governors workforce investment boards to implement Career Pathways that include workbased learning approaches with a particular emphasis on apprenticeship. So we think this work in this area with states is timely and an important part of building the Talent Pipeline in your state. So we look forward to working with you and your staff. Thank you. I turn it over to david. Thank you, governors, secretary perez. Its so good to be with you today. During the winter meeting, you gave us all a charge. We have 150 days to accomplish three things. One was to help with the regulations around the new workforce investment act to make sure that states could implement it. Work with the secretary in the department of labor to make sure that works. Restore the set aside under the law which is part of the underlying law. Number three was to put governors back into esea. And make sure that law got off the floor so that the 43 states operating under waivers didnt have to do that anymore. Im happy to say you have a great report card. At this point in time we have made strides on all three fronts. Let me start quickly with all three regulations. We worked with Martins Group to really pull together state examples of how those regulation need to work. And we provided all that information to the department of labor. Theyre due to come out with that regulation i believe early in 2016. Were going to continue to be an active partner with the department on behalf of governors to make sure that law works. On the 15 set aside im happy to report that the Senate Appropriations committee has said they will restore the full 15 under the appropriations. The house is still a little bit behind, but were convinced that we can get them to join the senate and restore the 15 set aside. As a quick reminder, in 2011 it had been reduced to 5 . We have slowly been increasing that amount. As a matter of fact, we have returned over 130 million to governors in that set aside since that time. This will be that final step to fully restore the 15 . And then finally, under esea, both the house and the senate have now moved major authorization bills. In the senate, working with the chief state School Officers nga was able to get an amendment with senators manchin and heller to have governs an essential part of esea and help sign off on those state plans. And what that does it brings together richards work on a pipeline. Because only governors can bring together all the different aspects of education, from early ed to k12 to Community Colleges to higher ned the workforce system to make sure they all align and Work Together. A friend of mine likes to say that Public Education is a team sport. Governors, you are always the leader that of team. So that amendment and this bill will put you back in that chair to help align all those programs. So we have more work to do there will be a conference to bring those bills together in the next couple of months. This committee will be very busy. But we look forward to a final law that will make to it the president s desk. Thank you, david, very much. A lot of work and a lot of activity in a short amount of time. And i think were making good progress. So now were going to turn to our program. And it is my distinct honor to introduce our first speaker, thomas e. Perez is the nations 26th secretary of labor. He has committed to making good on the promise of opportunity for all, giving every working family a chance to get ahead and putting a middle class life within reach of everyone willing to work for it. To accomplish this, secretary perezs priorities for the department include ensuring a fair days pay for a fair days work connecting ready to work americans with the ready to be filled jobs through skills programs like registered apprenticeship and onthejob training promoting gender equality in the workplace, ensuring that people with disabilities and veterans have access to equal employment opportunity, and insisting on a safe and level Playing Field for all american workers. Most recently, secretary perez are was assistant attorney general for civil rights in the United States department of justice. From 2002 until 2006, he was a member of the Montgomery County council. He was later appointed secretary of marylands department of labor,licensing, and regulation. Secretary perez received a bachelors degree from Brown University in 1983. In 1987 he received a masters in Public Policy and a law degree from harvard university. He lives in maryland with his wife and their three children. Mr. Secretary, on behalf of the nations governors, welcome, and thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much, governor. And its an honor to be here with so many people. And i want to start out by saying thank you to you. And thanks to all of you. Workforce has been a joint venture between all of us between federal state, and local government, between the public sector, the private sector the secret sauce of Community Colleges across this country. And as someone who worked as a state labor secretary, and before that as someone who is a local elected official, i bring to this venture as the u. S. Labor secretary an acute appreciation for the Important Role of states and the Important Role of local governments. And that has certainly i think helped me. And i really want to say thank you there is so much innovation around this table and around this country. We just celebrated the 25th anniversary this week of the americans with disabilities act. And we continue to celebrate it. I want to say thank you to governor dugard and governor markell. We sent a letter out signed by myself, and the two of them earlier this week to again underscore the importance of disability employment. Because the Unfinished Business of the ada is jobs. And many people with disabilities who can work and want to work, and we need to do more to focus on the last seven letters of that word and less on the first three letters. So thank you for your leadership, governors. And governor fallon, thank you for your unflagging commitment to workforce. This has been remarkable. And were seeing results. When i go around the country, i hear the same story. And its a great story. I talk to Large Businesses Small Businesses businesses in between. And i hear the same i hear the same thing, which is im optimistic about the future. I want to grow my business. And one of my Biggest Challenges is making sure that we have the Skilled Workforce to compete. My life is groundhog day. I hear that everywhere i go. I see that as a remarkable opportunity, because we do have a wind at our back. Weve seen now 64 consecutive months of private sector job growth to the tune of 12. 8 million jobs. We collect data on the number of job openings. We have more job openings in america right now, 5. 4 million than we have ever had since we were collecting this data set. We had in the depths of the recession, seven job seekers roughly for every job opening. We now have about 1. 6. Im not very good at math. But id rather compete against one person than six people for a job. And you have openings across various sectors. And you know the situation in your states. Opportunities abound. And what i would like to do is talk for a little while about what were trying to do to help be that catalytic force in partnership with all of you in partnership with your Education Partners locally, in partnership with business. And also give you some reflections on my experience in state government. Because i learned a few things. We did some things right. We did some things that we thought were right. And as i go through some of what were trying to do now i certainly want to give you the benefit of that insight. Because when i speak to folks who have been in this space for a long time, people like martin simon and others, what i hear consistently is we have a historic opportunity right now. Ive never seen more excitement in this field than we see now. Opportunities indeed abound. I call it the eisenhower moment. Dwight eisenhower brought us the interstate highway highway. We need to make sure there are on ramps and off ramps for everyone. And thats exactly what were trying to do. And the destination for workers is the middle class. The destination for employees is future further and sustainable prosperity. The challenge for us as we construct the skilled eke osystem and super highway is to make the best practices we see emerging across the country, figure out the principals of general applications. Understanding what works on one side of the country may not have immediate application else where, but recognizing there are principals of general application. And figuring out how we scale and sustain those. One of the on ramps weve discussed is apprenticeship. Its not hard to figure out why the youth Unemployment Rate in germany is half of what it is here. The apprenticeship model in germany enjoys a stature that we allow to atrophy in this country. And thats unfortunate. And what we have been trying to do and we in the sense is not simply the federal government and president but so many around this room. Apprenticeship is a tried and true method of Skill Development and business development. When i was at boeing in seattle recently, they said that roughly a third of their work force is within seven years of retirement. So apprenticeship is very much on their mind. And the grain of the work force is a very real phenomenon. And the interesting thing about apprenticeship is that when a lot of people thickenk about apprenticeship they think about Skilled Trades. We have to reup our efforts. I feel like our plumber charges more than a lawyer. Its a good middle class job. So we should be training people in these fields. But apprenticeship has application in it. So when i was with the mayor of philadelphia recently to announce the 100 million investment, they have a investment in philadelphia where theyre taking kids from the Philadelphia Public School system and putting them into it apprenticeship partnerships. As the parent of three teenager, one thing i know they are good with gadgets. When i had a problem with my iphone id go to my 13yearold. Theyre taking that fluency and interest and translating it into a middle class career. Of those 5. 4 million openings i would note that 10 are in the it sector. I would encourage you not only to think about thetricial skilled trails but to think about other opportunities. In our 100 million grant solicitation was explicitly attempting to branch out. Not only to the traditional Skilled Trades but in other areas. Ups operates a remarkable Apprenticeship Program in the logistics context. Weve funded healthcare apprenticeships that enable people to get pathways to healthcare. Many states have made available apprenticeships through state fund investments. Governor muloy we could go around the table and talk about that. Cvs, has been a very prolific user of the tax credit that South Carolina put in place. What theyre doing is theyre taking folk whose are on tanf and giving them a Career Pathway into a career as a pharmacy tech. I met with a person who has decided she wants to become a pharmacist. Thats what its all about is creating Career Pathways. I would encourage you based on my own experience this is consistent with what you heard from your professional staff to take a look around your agencies and do what i tried to do which is follow the money. If you have a 22yearold veteran returning from middle service and hes living with his mother in subsidized housing and on food stamps and he wants a Career Pathway i implicated half a dozen agencies that have work force dollars for umthe federal government. We created a work force subcabinet when i was in maryland. The president created a work force cabinet that i have the privilege of chairing. Our goal is to implode stove pipes so were working together. When we did a grant recently to help people who are on snap get access to Career Pathways, ten states were awarded that grant. Were working together so we dont define success for a snap recipient as getting any job. Were defining is success as a Career Pathway. Jobs that give you selfsufficiency. That type of implosion between the Labor Department and the usda is an example. Were doing that hin other areas. I predict one of your agencies that will have the most money when you convene or if you decide to convene cabinet and ask them about it will be whatever agency administered your tanf program. Theres a lot of work force dollars in the tanf context. Theres a lot of opportunity there. When you do that stove pipe implosion that we are trying to do in the federal government and that i think well have great application else where you can make real progress. And the apprenticeship context is one area. I very much encourage you to follow the lead of your colleague whose have done great work. The president set forth a goal of doubling the number of registers apprentices in this country over the next five years. Were making progress thanks to people like governor maloy and so many others in this room. Were going to foreign countries. We signed an mou with the government of switzerland. Switzerland is the seventh largest country in terms of Foreign Direct Investment in the u. S. And what theyre doing with us is they have the apprenticeship footprint as part of their dna. They have a u. S. Foot prtprint they are becoming our ambassadors as we establish a Leaders Program of industries. When Companies Come to us and say, im thinking about this, but im not sure. I think the best answer for that question is for me not to talk but for meo another business. Because when you have that business to business mentoring going on, its great way to grow apprenticeship. I encourage you to continue to partner with us. We have our Leader Program which is going gang busters. We have a partnership with Community Colleges called the registered apprenticeship Community College consortium. One of the Biggest Barriers you will find to apprenticeship are parents. When you see the word apprenticeship to them they say my kids going to college. Apprenticeship is the other college. Except without the debt. And when you get enrolled in Apprenticeship Program, you get a portable and stackable credential. Through this registered apprenticeship Community College consortium. Those credits are articulated to the Community College. Youre 2 3 of the way to your Associates Degree and sometimes more. Theres a lot happening in this space. I encourage you to get involved. One other on ramp that we are constructing in the skills superhighway is the on ramp of reentry. I want to applaud your efforts. Weve had many conversations with you throughout. Im a big believer in second chances. I know you all are as well. One of the largest private employer in the state of maryland is johns hopkins. The most prolific employer of people returning from prison is johns hopkins. If i had the president of johns haulkens here he would tell you this is not an act of charity. This is an act of enlightened selfinterest. We have a talented pipeline. We have taken that pipe line. Its not just entry level positions. Its kprixray techs, other allied health professionals. We have the lowest attrition among our people who have come out of prison. And so there is a lot to be done there. One thing we did when i was in maryland was we took correctional education and brought it into the work force system. One question you might want to consider when you go back ask who is running correctional education in your state. Ask them what their Outcome Measures are. Ask them how they are connected to the work force system. Talk to people who run your local jails. We just gave out 15 million in grants to city and county jails. Because when i was in Montgomery County, maryland we built a one stop center in the county jail. The return on investment has been remarkable. Because the best way to reduce recitivism is to get people the skills they need and then the job they need. There are many businesses who are out there who are willing and in need of talent. So we have an opportunity here. As we build this skills superhighway i encourage you to think about the opportunities in reentry. We give out a lot of competitive grants every year. We work closely with the department of justice. There are competitive grant opportunities for you to innovate in this important space. In terms of Community Colleges they are the secret sauce of success in my experience. I refer oftentimes at the department of labor as match. Com. Job seekers want to punch their ticket to the middle class with businesses who want to grow their business. The secret sauce is Community Colleges who is so adept at devising programs in partnership with businesses. We must always be demand driven. Thats the first principle of Effective Work force development. We dont train widget makers if theres isnt a business hiring widget makers anymore. The Community College system has worked well. One of the big differences between ten years ago and now in why this is